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What's with you people and running with your tail tucked between your legs whenever I call you out? Have I ever done anything to you, Macrology?


Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:06 am
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Call people out = rant like a drunk at a bar desperate for a fight?

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Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:03 am
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Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:54 am
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I finally watched Amadeus. I really liked it. I loved parts but it didn't engage me to the degree I'd hoped. It does a lot that I find interesting so that love may come on rewatches but as of now, it did little to unseat Cuckoo's Nest as my favorite from Foreman.


Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:01 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
I finally watched Amadeus. I really liked it. I loved parts but it didn't engage me to the degree I'd hoped. It does a lot that I find interesting so that love may come on rewatches but as of now, it did little to unseat Cuckoo's Nest as my favorite from Foreman.


Abraham knocks it out of the park. Hulce fits perfectly (unfortunately, he never seemed to fit in anything else).

In HD it's glorious. The locations are wonderful. It's a great period piece.


Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:13 am
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:

Abraham knocks it out of the park. Hulce fits perfectly (unfortunately, he never seemed to fit in anything else).

In HD it's glorious. The locations are wonderful. It's a great period piece.


It's a movie that has all the pieces and it's likely on me why they didn't quite click. I did wish that it hadn't been a confessional film in structure, as I tend to only enjoy those in crime/noir films. This is certainly a better example but it also has the issue of so much story that Salieri is not present for and it doesn't play up the unreliable narrator element for that to not be problematic.

The two leads and the editing were especially exceptional and will probably have me come back to it. I liked Hulce in Animal Housr and Hunchback of Notre Dame.


Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:22 am
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Well, you can't be shamed for "not liking" something. You either like it or you don't.

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
It's a movie that has all the pieces and it's likely on me why they didn't quite click. I did wish that it hadn't been a confessional film in structure, as I tend to only enjoy those in crime/noir films.


I am not sure how else it would be structured. We are exploring another man's guilt and regret.

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
so much story that Salieri is not present for


I think it gives us plenty of Salieri and some great retrospective old-man Salieri. Some of the best scenes, I think.



ThatDarnMKS wrote:
and it doesn't play up the unreliable narrator element for that to not be problematic.


I am not sure why he would need to be unreliable. We get the contrast between A and B, with A summarizing and framing B.

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
I liked Hulce in Animal Housr


Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. I remember seeing him in Slam Dance and having the distinct feeling that that was the end of his career as a lead actor in major films.


Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:54 am
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Well, you can't be shamed for "not liking" something. You either like it or you don't.



I am not sure how else it would be structured. We are exploring another man's guilt and regret.



I think it gives us plenty of Salieri and some great retrospective old-man Salieri. Some of the best scenes, I think.





I am not sure why he would need to be unreliable. We get the contrast between A and B, with A summarizing and framing B.



Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. I remember seeing him in Slam Dance and having the distinct feeling that that was the end of his career as a lead actor in major films.

I didn't mean we didn't get enough Salieri. I'm saying we had extended, detailed and emotional sections that neither Salieri, nor his confidants, were present for yet are being told in his confessional. Like, I can confess to people that when I had this online conversation, I'd just woken up from a nap after watching a True Detective but if I start saying what YOU'RE doing, well, how the hell would I know? I can assume but the narrative should have stayed with Salieri rather than venturing out to be just with Mozart. I would also accept the scene the maid is present for as being in there but the others probably shouldn't be there.

That's why I brought up unreliable because there's a lot he would have no idea about but is presented to us without the implication that it's less than truthful.

This is more to highlight the limitation of the narrative frame and why I don't particularly care for it much of the time. The same way found footage will always create the issue of "why are they still recording?"

I really liked Amadeus and it was very close to love at times. I'm not looking to be faulted but just to express the mild frustration of almost being fully swept away while never quite getting there.


Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:29 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
I finally watched Amadeus. I really liked it. I loved parts but it didn't engage me to the degree I'd hoped. It does a lot that I find interesting so that love may come on rewatches but as of now, it did little to unseat Cuckoo's Nest as my favorite from Foreman.

I used to love this movie. Even as a teenager and college kid, I watched it over and over and funny, so did all my friends (and they were not film-nerds).
I haven't seen it in many years but I hope I will enjoy it when I finally get around to seeing it again.


Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:12 am
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:




This scene always gave me chills and it kinda still does.

"And then... suddenly... high above it... an oboe..."

I actually love the oboe (I really do) because of this scene.


Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:15 am
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On the other subject, it continues to give me chuckles how Marvel's trailers have more emotional content than DC's entire films.


Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:18 am
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DaMU wrote:
Call people out = rant like a drunk at a bar desperate for a fight?
Please point me in the direction of this thing you call ranting, you dumb fuck


Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:46 am
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What the absolute fuck is going on around here?

And what happened to the awesome post about not starting fights but ending them and everybody being pissants and shit?


Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:07 pm
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Wooley wrote:
What the absolute fuck is going on around here?
I was doing my thing with Yarn because he made a dumb discussion post and Macrology decided that it's input was so direly needed and I said some things back, then Damu said a thing and I replied in earnest. I was just trying to have some fun with ol' Yarny and Macrology had to take a giant shit on it because Macrology sucks

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And what happened to the awesome post about not starting fights but ending them and everybody being pissants and shit?
Oh, that stands. I'm not trying to start fights but end them, I'm so sick of everyone and their childish tendency to egg me on, like, I'm going to throw hands at you. Fucking pissants.


Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:18 pm
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Is this like a performance?


Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:42 pm
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
I didn't mean we didn't get enough Salieri. I'm saying we had extended, detailed and emotional sections that neither Salieri, nor his confidants, were present for yet are being told in his confessional.


Ah, OK. You see the confessional as a "tight" frame of reference (i.e., one limited to the POV of the character). Honestly, I never though about that with Amadeus. I just accepted that we were being shown what happened, more or less from the POV of Salieri, but also that the audience given the benefit of a back stage pass to extra material. That is, the narration I took to be limited, but that we (the audience) were floating above it all, and given a vision in addition to that narration that was less restricted.

Is it true that the camera cannot show what the narrator does not know?

I don't think so. I can see how you, as a filmmaker, would be sensitive to the fitment of formal parts and obeying internal logic. Films, however, are dreamlike. We only need just enough logic to avoid tearing the delicate tissue of the dream. In film, scenes cut and then spontaneously we're in plopped in another scene somehow, we get impossible camera angles, sounds are magnified in ways that an actual ear that was present would fail to hear. I think that good films don't simply play by implicit rules, but also know which rules to break. If the magic is strong enough, suspension of disbelief is preserved and we are not roused from the dream (such as Spielberg knowing that he could get away with the fantastical ending of Jaws with the magical nuclear-exploding air-tank). I don't merely mean that films can "cheat" and "get away it" in a way that does not, at least, harm the story, but rather that stories are improved by knowing how far to push things and when to do so.

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
That's why I brought up unreliable because there's a lot he would have no idea about but is presented to us without the implication that it's less than truthful.


Gotcha. I remember audiences being upset at the end of the Usual Suspects when it turned out that most of what they saw didn't really happen, but was simply a fiction being generated by Verbal -- "They just wasted my time! None of that happened!" -- My retort was always, "But none of these things happen in movies." Fiction is fiction and so a fiction within a fiction is no more or less a fiction. It doesn't really trouble me either way. Thus, I don't know that it matters if we are being given Salieri's extrapolation of what he did not see or a genuine God's-eye view of the private life of Mozart. It's all a fiction either way. I think the surface reading is the easiest (especially since we're not given clues that Salieri is unreliable) and on that reading old Salieri is our gateway to the past - we travel through him to young Salieri. We arrive at the dance (the past) with young Salieri, but then we break with him on occasion to dance with other partners.

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
The same way found footage will always create the issue of "why are they still recording?"


Yes, but these films raise the bar for their own realism. They WANT us to pay attention to artifactuality of the camera in a bid for a heightened sense of realism (because they need to, because they're selling fantastical horror/sci-fi horseshit that, on face, we know could never happen which means it is not easy for the audience to become fully submerged into the dream state). When you ask us to notice the camera, however, we're going to be more awake - because it is a player on the state and we cannot help but ask questions about the camera. But even here, even the best "found footage" movie will show and record material that does not properly or plausibly belong in a pure/raw videographic record of events. The job is never to tell the truth, but to tell a good story.

Just as none of us speak the same "language," but rather work from our own idiolect (with our own slightly deformed grammar and vocabulary), you appear to have a different film language you view from and Amadeus violates the rules of your grammar, it seems. This might explain why we get so exercised, for example, over nit-picky details in fantastical films as violating "plausibility" even though we scarcely object to the premise of vampires or warp drives.


Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:57 pm
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Ah, OK. You see the confessional as a "tight" frame of reference (i.e., one limited to the POV of the character). Honestly, I never though about that with Amadeus. I just accepted that we were being shown what happened, more or less from the POV of Salieri, but also that the audience given the benefit of a back stage pass to extra material. That is, the narration I took to be limited, but that we (the audience) were floating above it all, and given a vision in addition to that narration that was less restricted.


This is how I take it as well. I've never felt bound by Salieri's confessional here. I believe there have been some films where it feels like a cheat to step outside of the knowledge of the narrator, but not in Amadeus. The film is about his all consuming jealousy and idolatry of Mozart. Offering the viewer scenes where Salieri is not involved, but still demonstrate to the audience the irksome character traits that drive Salieri mad--his drunken, immature, brattish, savant leanings--are all elements that would have been apart of his compulsion to obsess over the man. Even if he is not present, he is consumed by what Mozart is doing when he is not within sight. For example, scenes of the child prodigy performing for the aristocracy while blindfolded, is just as valuable whether or not it really happened exactly that way, or if it is how a young Solieri imagined all of the talents and accolades that were 'unfairly' not bestowed upon him


Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:38 pm
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Amadeus is my favorite movie. I love how I get something new to ruminate on every time I watch it. There's the futility of making deals with God, there's the mystery of whether or not natural talent exists - and if it does, the mystery as to how it's bestowed - there's the idea that true genius is never fully appreciated it its own time, and when I watched it again a couple weeks ago - likely due to the current political climate - I picked up on how the previous generation, i.e. Salieri's, never trusts, understands and thus tries to sabotage the ones that come after it, i.e. Mozart's. In addition to all of that, the music and opera staging are wonderful and the comic relief is still funny after all these years.

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Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:20 pm
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Torgo wrote:
Amadeus is my favorite movie. I love how I get something new to ruminate on every time I watch it. There's the futility of making deals with God, there's the mystery of whether or not natural talent exists - and if it does, the mystery as to how it's bestowed - there's the idea that true genius is never fully appreciated it its own time, and when I watched it again a couple weeks ago - likely due to the current political climate - I picked up on how the previous generation, i.e. Salieri's, never trusts, understands and thus tries to sabotage the ones that come after it, i.e. Mozart's. In addition to all of that, the music and opera staging are wonderful and the comic relief is still funny after all these years.


For me, this film and The Name of the Rose are a nice pair.

In Amadeus, it is fascinating to see him hate, then work to destroy, and then desperately try to save Mozart's last music as he is dying in bed.

Best of all, Salieri reveals that he is the patron saint of the greatest portion of humanity of all, mediocrity.


Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:04 am
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Torgo wrote:
Amadeus is my favorite movie. I love how I get something new to ruminate on every time I watch it. There's the futility of making deals with God, there's the mystery of whether or not natural talent exists - and if it does, the mystery as to how it's bestowed - there's the idea that true genius is never fully appreciated it its own time, and when I watched it again a couple weeks ago - likely due to the current political climate - I picked up on how the previous generation, i.e. Salieri's, never trusts, understands and thus tries to sabotage the ones that come after it, i.e. Mozart's. In addition to all of that, the music and opera staging are wonderful and the comic relief is still funny after all these years.

Are you referring to the elders of the Democratic Party trying to sabotage all the young progressives within their own party?


Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:59 am
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Wooley wrote:
Are you referring to the elders of the Democratic Party trying to sabotage all the young progressives within their own party?
Pretty much. That and everyone on both sides ganging up on AOC.

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Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:34 am
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:

For me, this film and The Name of the Rose are a nice pair.
I've been meaning to see The Name of the Rose. Coincidentally, there's a new Name of the Rose miniseries airing on Sundance this month starring Michael Emerson. Decisions, decisions...

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Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:58 am
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I have a question for anyone who might know. Who is the actual administrator here and how might one contact them? My Firefox browser somehow deleted all my passwords and I've been trying to login for the last couple of weeks but can't get the password right. The old account wasn't exactly a stellar example of postitude but I'd still prefer to resurrect it somehow.


Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:08 am
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Patrick McGroin wrote:
I have a question for anyone who might know. Who is the actual administrator here and how might one contact them? My Firefox browser somehow deleted all my passwords and I've been trying to login for the last couple of weeks but can't get the password right. The old account wasn't exactly a stellar example of postitude but I'd still prefer to resurrect it somehow.
This forum died years ago, bro.

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Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:35 am
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Patrick McGroin wrote:
I have a question for anyone who might know. Who is the actual administrator here and how might one contact them? My Firefox browser somehow deleted all my passwords and I've been trying to login for the last couple of weeks but can't get the password right. The old account wasn't exactly a stellar example of postitude but I'd still prefer to resurrect it somehow.


This is anarchy, man. Nobody runs this.

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Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:39 am
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Ah fuck it.

I watched Jurassic Park: Fallen Kingdom and I'm gonna give it a C-. The franchise has come a long way from the original and it's fallen just as far IMO. This is slickly made pablum designed for the most part to not offend while appealing to a specific demographic. Kids from the look of it. Or maybe people who faint at the first sign of blood. It took maybe 2 or 3 victims being torn asunder by the dinosaurs before I thought to check the rating. Sure enough it was a PG-13. I can't get behind this kind of soulless sanitized action. I mean how much fun is it supposed to be to watch a movie where you can easily guess what's going to happen? And Chris Pratt still looks really uncomfortable playing the conventional steely eyed hero type.


Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:48 am
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Patrick McGroin wrote:
Ah fuck it.

I watched Jurassic Park: Fallen Kingdom and I'm gonna give it a C-. The franchise has come a long way from the original and it's fallen just as far IMO. This is slickly made pablum designed for the most part to not offend while appealing to a specific demographic. Kids from the look of it. Or maybe people who faint at the first sign of blood. It took maybe 2 or 3 victims being torn asunder by the dinosaurs before I thought to check the rating. Sure enough it was a PG-13. I can't get behind this kind of soulless sanitized action. I mean how much fun is it supposed to be to watch a movie where you can easily guess what's going to happen? And Chris Pratt still looks really uncomfortable playing the conventional steely eyed hero type.


On a related note, this a great critique of the film which came before it.



Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:55 am
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I liked Fallen Kingdom, think it's the best of the JP sequels, though that's not a high bar to clear. Strong craft from Bayona, fun themes and motifs, never takes itself too seriously, interesting structure with it split right down the center. I liked its dopily obvious politics ("Such a nasty woman," president denying dinosaur existence, a pachy head-ramming Russian oligarchs). Even the characters were an improvement on the previous film, although, again, I hated the characters in JW, so their upgrade from "hateable" to "don't want them to die" was a minor upgrade-- but an upgrade nonetheless.

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Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:59 am
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Patrick McGroin wrote:
I have a question for anyone who might know. Who is the actual administrator here and how might one contact them? My Firefox browser somehow deleted all my passwords and I've been trying to login for the last couple of weeks but can't get the password right. The old account wasn't exactly a stellar example of postitude but I'd still prefer to resurrect it somehow.
You could try messaging this guy about it, if you want: ucp.php?i=pm&mode=compose&u=2

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Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:21 pm
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:
I remember seeing him in Slam Dance and having the distinct feeling that that was the end of his career as a lead actor in major films.

He had one of the more memorable roles in Parenthood, but that was it. Like he jusst vanished, in a trail of mafia debt.

I was always curious about the prospect of Mark Hamill in the role. He was the star of the Broadway run of the play, and I would have hoped the film could have expanded his acting career in this pre-Joker period. I'm not exactly sure why he didn't land the role on screen.


Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:45 pm
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Jinnistan wrote:
He had one of the more memorable roles in Parenthood, but that was it. Like he jusst vanished, in a trail of mafia debt.

I was always curious about the prospect of Mark Hamill in the role. He was the star of the Broadway run of the play, and I would have hoped the film could have expanded his acting career in this pre-Joker period. I'm not exactly sure why he didn't land the role on screen.

Foreman said that he didn't think audiences would see anything other than Luke Skywalker.


Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:59 pm
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Stu wrote:
You could try messaging this guy about it, if you want: ucp.php?i=pm&mode=compose&u=2
Thank you. I sent off an email. It's not do or die or anything and I suppose I can simply start over but no harm in trying.


Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:35 pm
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A Serious Man (2009) - 9/10

This film opens with a prologue set sometime in the 1800's. In it, a Jewish man returns home to tell his wife that he met one of her acquaintances named Reb Groshkover during his trip home, only to learn from her that he's been dead for some time. Reb shows up at their house and is questioned by both of them only to get stabbed by the wife as he walks away into the darkness. Is he really dead or was the wife mistaken? Like the film which succeeds this scene, we get no clear answers. In this film, physics professor Larry Gopnik's life begins to unravel due to a number of misfortunes and incidents. He sees several rabbis in the hopes that they can provide him with answers but even they can't help him. This makes the film a parallel to the Book of Job as both characters question why they're being punished. Unlike Job, however, Larry is unable to find any answers to his misfortunes. Due to this, the film becomes much more than a simple allegory about faith in God and more so about the uncertainty in whether Larry's misfortunes were caused by God or if they were just a series of coincidences. If you apply the Schrodinger's cat paradox which Larry touches on during one of his lectures, both of these are possibilities since there's no evidence to back up either of them. Uncertainty also resides in many of the trials he encounters throughout the film. For instance, did Clive really bribe Larry or did the money get on his desk another way? Is Arthur as useless as he seems at first glance or is he really a misunderstood genius? Is Sy the one who wrote the defamatory letters to the tenure review board or is someone else responsible? Larry doesn't know the answers to any of these questions. All he can do is guess. Once things begin to look up for him near the end, the film suddenly delivers an unexpected curveball to the audience at the end, one that lingers long after the credits. It's anticlimactic, but intentionally so. Overall, this is a smart film which elevates the simple faith in crisis premise to a much more transcendent level.

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Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:50 am
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Favorite Coen film, although Raising Arizona isn't too far behind.


Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:11 am
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Popcorn Reviews wrote:
A Serious Man (2009) - 9/10

This film opens with a prologue set sometime in the 1800's. In it, a Jewish man returns home to tell his wife that he met one of her acquaintances named Reb Groshkover during his trip home, only to learn from her that he's been dead for some time. Reb shows up at their house and is questioned by both of them only to get stabbed by the wife as he walks away into the darkness. Is he really dead or was the wife mistaken? Like the film which succeeds this scene, we get no clear answers. In this film, physics professor Larry Gopnik's life begins to unravel due to a number of misfortunes and incidents. He sees several rabbis in the hopes that they can provide him with answers but even they can't help him. This makes the film a parallel to the Book of Job as both characters question why they're being punished. Unlike Job, however, Larry is unable to find any answers to his misfortunes. Due to this, the film becomes much more than a simple allegory about faith in God and more so about the uncertainty in whether Larry's misfortunes were caused by God or if they were just a series of coincidences. If you apply the Schrodinger's cat paradox which Larry touches on during one of his lectures, both of these are possibilities since there's no evidence to back up either of them. Uncertainty also resides in many of the trials he encounters throughout the film. For instance, did Clive really bribe Larry or did the money get on his desk another way? Is Arthur as useless as he seems at first glance or is he really a misunderstood genius? Is Sy the one who wrote the defamatory letters to the tenure review board or is someone else responsible? Larry doesn't know the answers to any of these questions. All he can do is guess. Once things begin to look up for him near the end, the film suddenly delivers an unexpected curveball to the audience at the end, one that lingers long after the credits. It's anticlimactic, but intentionally so. Overall, this is a smart film which elevates the simple faith in crisis premise to a much more transcendent level.


The Dibbuk prologue is great, a little movie unto itself, and a great mise en abyme in relation to the rest of the film.


Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:09 am
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Grapes of Wrath- Excellent. Nice to finally see it in full as an adult. Not quite my favorite Ford but close.

Gone with the Wind- Also nice to see in full as an adult. The first half is considerably more impressive and work put together. Scarlett O'Hara is all at once a complex and interesting character and all at once, unlikeable and fairly detestable main character. A fitting analog for the South the film seems to like far too much. Can't say I cared much for the politics and romanticism of the South but it kept me engaged for the duration and was a wonderfully made melodrama.


Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:15 am
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I know who runs the forum. If you need something I'll pass it along to them. If they respond IDK.


Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:29 pm
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The Bad and the Beautiful: A stylish drama set in classic Hollywood that recounts the lives of these individuals impacted in their dealings with a producer brilliantly played by Kirk Douglas. The ending didn't have quite the punch but I really enjoyed the way it played our nonetheless and it seems to capture the nature of Hollywood and devil dealings all the same.

Working Girl: A mediocre flick but an enjoyable enough romcomdram to pass the time when your wife wants something pleasant after a car accident.


Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:53 am
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Batman - wow, did not realize how racist the old Batman was.


Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:38 am
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Batman - wow, did not realize how racist the old Batman was.

'66 or '89?


Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:58 am
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Wooley wrote:
'66 or '89?


'43

"This was part of a foreign land, transplanted bodily to America and known as Little Tokyo. Since a wise government rounded up the shifty-eyed Japs, it has become virtually a ghost street where only one business survives, eeking out a precarious existence on the dimes of curiosity seekers.



Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:10 am
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Batman - wow, did not realize how racist the old Batman was.


It's all anti-Japanese propaganda to justify internment camps with the facade of a superhero film. But why are we discussing the politics of dumb superhero stuff, amirite?

I do love that Batman's mask doesnt fit and bobs about when he moves like a cheap Halloween costume.


Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:17 am
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Ace wrote:
I know who runs the forum. If you need something I'll pass it along to them. If they respond IDK.
Yes, thank you. I was just wondering if there's any kind of recovery process for lost or forgotten passwords. Usually there's a link provided but I can't seem to find one. If it's a no-go then it's no harm done. I can post under this new username.


Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:22 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:

It's all anti-Japanese propaganda to justify internment camps with the facade of a superhero film. But why are we discussing the politics of dumb superhero stuff, amirite?

I do love that Batman's mask doesnt fit and bobs about when he moves like a cheap Halloween costume.


I am not against talking about super hero movies - I just object to the notion that they represent high art or deeply enlightened politics. I get that it is war film, so jingoistic racism is not surprising. Batman notes that he might have to make an excuse about being 4F to his girlfriend to hide his secret mission with the U.S. Army--in 1943 it appears Batman is less a vigilante and more along the lines of what we now call "homeland security."

The fight scenes are great - their capes get all twisted around.

It's interesting to note that there is no Batmobile in this. Alfred drives the dynamic duo around. By the 1949 film Bruce Wayne is finally driving himself around and changing his outfit in the car (after they raise the top). I guess no one thinks to write down the license plate of the car Batman is riding around in or they would make the connection to Bruce Wayne pretty quickly.


Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:26 am
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:

I am not against talking about super hero movies - I just object to the notion that they represent high art or deeply enlightened politics. I get that it is war film, so jingoistic racism is not surprising. Batman notes that he might have to make an excuse about being 4F to his girlfriend to hide his secret mission with the U.S. Army--in 1943 it appears Batman is less a vigilante and more along the lines of what we now call "homeland security."

The fight scenes are great - their capes get all twisted around.

It's interesting to note that there is no Batmobile in this. Alfred drives the dynamic duo around. By the 1949 film Bruce Wayne is finally driving himself around and changing his outfit in the car (after they raise the top). I guess no one thinks to write down the license plate of the car Batman is riding around in or they would make the connection to Bruce Wayne pretty quickly.


I don't recall anyone claiming they were high art or deeply enlightened so I'm going to chalk all this up to an inverse recency bias.

The 40's serials make one appreciate how intentional the camp of the 66 show was and how well they pulled it off.


Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:35 am
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That a pretty sweet Jewfro on Robin though.


Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:47 am
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:

'43

"This was part of a foreign land, transplanted bodily to America and known as Little Tokyo. Since a wise government rounded up the shifty-eyed Japs, it has become virtually a ghost street where only one business survives, eeking out a precarious existence on the dimes of curiosity seekers.


Oh, really old Batman.


Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:05 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
I don't recall anyone claiming they were high art or deeply enlightened so I'm going to chalk all this up to an inverse recency bias.


Well, I also assert that these films have no "job" to do in terms of saving our souls, pumping in politics as boxes to check, especially when the lead is female of a POC, but we've been down this path.


Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:40 am
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:


Well, I also assert that these films have no "job" to do in terms of saving our souls, pumping in politics as boxes to check, especially when the lead is female of a POC, but we've been down this path.

"Job" was used in reference to the task the film was trying to do. *Pats head*


Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:16 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
"Job" was used in reference to the task the film was trying to do. *Pats head*


And the question was who assigned the film that job. Your initial response was coy (you stated that you assigned the job) and IIRC you made reference to some book discussing the power of pop culture (with pop power, comes pop responsibility, apparently), but that still leaves us with the genre problem (i.e., "heroes" who are heroes because they are more powerful and who resolves problem with concentrated violence), the conceit that having the power to propagandize gives one the responsibility to do so. Don't get me wrong, fiction is one of the best ways to propagandize that has even been invented, but the best art is hidden and themes should grow naturally from the subject matter and not according to a cultural checklist.


Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:05 am
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