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I can't fathom liking Black Panther more than Infinity War or Ragnarok. It's such a banal experience, borderline Africanist and devolves into one of the most incomplete looking CGI fests I've seen. It's mediocre through and through.

IW and Ragnarok are the embodiment of what cosmic comic adaptations could and should be.


Thu May 03, 2018 10:12 am
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Phantom Thread>comic book movies.


Thu May 03, 2018 10:18 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
I can't fathom liking Black Panther more than Infinity War or Ragnarok. It's such a banal experience, borderline Africanist and devolves into one of the most incomplete looking CGI fests I've seen. It's mediocre through and through.

IW and Ragnarok are the embodiment of what cosmic comic adaptations could and should be.


Ragnorak is great fun on a first view, but increasingly cutesy saccharine on later views, to the point where Thor doesn't make sense tonally.
Thor is having nightmares about the end of the world, finds out it's all true, watches his father die, and discovers that his entire kingdom is built on a lie.
His response to all this is to be quippy and cute and to over-explain the plot "Be careful with this crown which will turn into a giant monster and destroy our whole planet if it is placed in the everlasting fire as was told to me in the cave of exposition three minutes ago."

Thor makes much more sense in IW where Raccoon has to take a moment and "be the captain" and have a talk with Thor about all the crap he's gone through, because here he a person capable of feeling strain. Unfortunately, IW entirely undoes the "Dumbo" subplot of Ragnorak
(You don't need your hammer Thor! You're not the god of hammers!) by asserting the need to forge Stormbreaker.
He even steps away from his Odin-aspect
when Raccoon replaces his eye.
It's funny, because IW makes much more sense tonally, but it screws up the character advancement of Ragnorak.

Black Panther was... ...OK. I don't know why some people are so committed to this film being a religious experience, like this is the first time we've seen black heroes on screen.


Thu May 03, 2018 10:46 am
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ski petrol wrote:
Phantom Thread>comic book movies.


I'll see it eventually. Long waiting list.

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Thu May 03, 2018 10:59 am
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Infinity War
Good stuff, lots of fun. My viewing was enhanced by a group of kids up front that periodically erupted into applause, like when the "Wakanda" title appeared on screen. Reminded me of my younger days, made me feel warm and fuzzy. When the end credits rolled, a grown man behind me yelled "DUDE, what the f---?" while a young girl to my right was crying. Quite a rollercoaster. I've got a few quibbles that are hardly worth mentioning, but I DO want to get this off my chest:
As a lifelong Hulkophile, part 2 owes me BIG TIME. WTF??


Also, I geeked really hard
at the Captain Marvel thing at the end.

Stark Raving Hazelnuts/10

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Thu May 03, 2018 11:41 am
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I enjoyed Hard Times. The Depression setting seems to class up Charles Bronson and sleaze up James Coburn, adding dimension to Bronson's taciturn style and desperation to Coburn's hustle, and the two play nicely off each other.

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Thu May 03, 2018 1:09 pm
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The Filth and the Fury - 8/10. This documentary tells you everything you need to know about the Sex Pistols: the rotten state England was in that led to the band's formation, the Pistols' working class origins, their clueless, unhelpful management, the impact the punk movement had on the world, etc. The surviving Pistols, i.e. everyone but Sid, provide commentary, and they're all shown in darkness as if they were anonymous witnesses on the evening news. The movie is appropriately full of "punk" flourishes like this one, the most notable ones being the seemingly randomly inserted clips of newscasts, sitcoms, standup comedy routines, old interviews and Ralph Bakshi-esque cartoons of the band (these may be from American Pop, but I can't confirm this). My favorite clips are the ones from Laurence Olivier's Richard III for how they serve as a metaphor for band's rise and fall. Even if you're not interested in the Sex Pistols or already know everything there is to know about them, it's still worth watching as a punk history lesson. It's essential viewing if all you know about the Sex Pistols is from watching Sid and Nancy because it gives a much fairer, honest, and deromanticized - not to mention horrifying and heartbreaking - account of that doomed affair.

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Fri May 04, 2018 12:43 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
I can't fathom liking Black Panther more than Infinity War or Ragnarok. It's such a banal experience, borderline Africanist and devolves into one of the most incomplete looking CGI fests I've seen. It's mediocre through and through.

IW and Ragnarok are the embodiment of what cosmic comic adaptations could and should be.


I'd agree with you on Ragnarok. Very good flick. I'm still impressed by how effectively it was able to give every character agency, an arc, a sense of purpose in the story. Even Karl Urban's henchman Skurge is given space to consider his role and make important choices. It's clean, efficient storytelling.

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Fri May 04, 2018 1:02 am
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DaMU wrote:

I'd agree with you on Ragnarok. Very good flick. I'm still impressed by how effectively it was able to give every character agency, an arc, a sense of purpose in the story. Even Karl Urban's henchman Skurge is given space to consider his role and make important choices. It's clean, efficient storytelling.


Agreed. Now rewatch Infinity War until you agree on that as well.

On a non-comic book note, I watched "Ingrid Goes West." I dug it a great deal and it's incredible how much Plaza has grown as an artist. The whole film was basically a host of young actors showing off their chops by humanizing characters that could have easily been one note jokes, like Jackson's love of Batman. The plot played out like Jody Hill got hold of a Lena Dunham script and has his way with it. As a fan of both, I found that very appealing and it brought up similar feelings to when I first watched Girls and Observe and Report. A very strong debut.


Fri May 04, 2018 11:44 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
I can't fathom liking Black Panther more than Infinity War or Ragnarok. It's such a banal experience, borderline Africanist and devolves into one of the most incomplete looking CGI fests I've seen. It's mediocre through and through.

IW and Ragnarok are the embodiment of what cosmic comic adaptations could and should be.

I respectfully disagree. I thought it had all the heart and humor of the best of Captain America movies. At times, more.


Fri May 04, 2018 1:19 pm
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:

I don't know that I agree that's what transpired,
he only goes for a weapon specifically to kill Thanos. He's already had his ass handed to him by Big Purple, he needs a weapon capable of defeating this one enemy. Doesn't really have anything to do with Thor's arc except that Marvel definitely wanted to get something iconic back in his hands, and we knew that was gonna happen.


Fri May 04, 2018 1:23 pm
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Black Panther B-

Some times awe inspiring and sometimes downright silly.


Fri May 04, 2018 1:31 pm
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Avengers: IW - 9/10

What I'd call a true cinematic rollercoaster. The film is flawed in numerous ways, but I just can't bring myself to go lower than a solid 9. It's just so relentlessly entertaining from start to finish. It proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that popcorn sometimes trumps cheese platters.

My biggest gripe is....

the way the deaths are handled. There are just WAY too many of them, robbing the film of its credibility in that department. Several of them are also treated so casually, it kind of reminded me of that old sc/fi TV-show trope where a bunch of characters disappear and the viewer is left to wonder what the hell is happening. At no point point during such episodes are the disappearances to be interpreted as true death and, thus, we are not expected to mourn their passing. These episodes scream "to be continued", rather than "oh yes, we actually did THAT!". I got that exact same vibe from IW. The vibe that their "deaths" are not the end of momentary character arcs, but rather their beginning.

Obviously, guys like Loki and Heimdall are legitimate goners and I appreciate that, fun characters though they were.

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Sat May 05, 2018 12:25 am
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IPlayTheBlameGame wrote:
Avengers: IW - 9/10

What I'd call a true cinematic rollercoaster. The film is flawed in numerous ways, but I just can't bring myself to go lower than a solid 9. It's just so relentlessly entertaining from start to finish. It proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that popcorn sometimes trumps cheese platters.

My biggest gripe is....

the way the deaths are handled. There are just WAY too many of them, robbing the film of its credibility in that department. Several of them are also treated so casually, it kind of reminded me of that old sc/fi TV-show trope where a bunch of characters disappear and the viewer is left to wonder what the hell is happening. At no point point during such episodes are the disappearances to be interpreted as true death and, thus, we are not expected to mourn their passing. These episodes scream "to be continued", rather than "oh yes, we actually did THAT!". I got that exact same vibe from IW. The vibe that their "deaths" are not the end of momentary character arcs, but rather their beginning.

Obviously, guys like Loki and Heimdall are legitimate goners and I appreciate that, fun characters though they were.


Well, and I think they are just getting started on
deaths. I mean, obviously ALL the ash-deaths are going to be reversed, probably by Nebula, but I think IW2 we will see more of the final deaths like Loki's. I'm not convinced Gamora's a goner, even though her green brains are splattered on the rock, because of the scene where he goes and talks to her after the snap. I think we might see a resurrection there. But more heroes are going down in Avengers 4.


Sat May 05, 2018 1:19 am
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DaMU wrote:

I'd agree with you on Ragnarok. Very good flick. I'm still impressed by how effectively it was able to give every character agency, an arc, a sense of purpose in the story. Even Karl Urban's henchman Skurge is given space to consider his role and make important choices. It's clean, efficient storytelling.
That I'd have to disagree with you on, as I felt the smaller, more character-centric moments in Ragnarok, while not bad, were just... okay, for the most part. They felt like afterthoughts for Waititi when compared to the bigger, more colorful, humorous material, and I just didn't care that much about, say, Skurge's particular arc, and I didn't even feel much when it came to anything to do with Thor & Odin's scenes together, which in theory, should've been the most emotional parts of the film. Say what you will about the original Thor and its needless Earth-bound subplots/characters or obnoxious attempts at comic "relief", one of the things that Branagh did really well in it were the dramatic moments, especially when it came to Thor's arc of going from an brash, irresponsible God Of Thunder to be willing to selflessly sacrifice himself for others. I've heard some criticize it as being overwrought, counterfeit comic book Shakespeare, but I always enjoyed those aspects of the film, and something of a cross between both sensibilities, and we might have gotten the perfect Thor movie, instead of one that's moderately enjoyable, but still not all that memorable, ultimately.
IPlayTheBlameGame wrote:
My biggest gripe is....

Obviously, guys like Loki and Heimdall are legitimate goners and I appreciate that, fun characters though they were.
Knowing superhero universes...
...it would not surprise me at ALL if they went all they way back and resurrected a character as iconic as Loki while they're bringing everyone else back, but we'll see; maybe Marvel will have some balls about that at least, and not just temporarily pretend to, before the ol' reset button gets pushed.

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Sat May 05, 2018 5:12 am
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Wooley wrote:
I don't know that I agree that's what transpired,
he only goes for a weapon specifically to kill Thanos. He's already had his ass handed to him by Big Purple, he needs a weapon capable of defeating this one enemy. Doesn't really have anything to do with Thor's arc except that Marvel definitely wanted to get something iconic back in his hands, and we knew that was gonna happen.


Functionally, it is what happened though.
Ragnorak established that Thor's power came from within, from his godhood and not from his weapons. Odin had Thor use Mulnir as a sort of magic feather, a way to focus his power, but the truth is (according to Odin) Thor is stronger than Odin. the message of Ragnorak was "Bro, you don't need the hammer." We get to the next film and the message is immediately, "Bro, you really need a hammer!" There is that one (and probably only) memorable line from Star Trek V, "What need does God have for a starship?" This film turns Thor back in the direction of the Thor of Norse mythology who had (and occasionally needed) certain magical toys, such as a his belt which doubled his strength.

Then again, in the last film we had a big fight to save Asgard as a people (this is what really matters, we're told) rather than Asgard the place. Then in the beginning of this film, the Asgard ship is blown to bits, apparently leaving Thor as the last Asgardian. All this work in Ragnorak to save what matters, only to immediately lose it all at the very start of the next film.


Sat May 05, 2018 5:45 am
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Post There Will Be Blood (Anderson, '07)

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I have a competition in me... I want no one else to succeed.

Oil; the thick, black, precious liquid bubbles away omniously, incessantly, lying underground as far as the eye can see across the desolate, turn-of-the-century California landscape, as people are quite literally baptized and buried in it, so insidiously pervasive its presence is here, as it drives men mad with a lustful, insatiable greed, planting fantasies in their heads of becoming impossibly rich from what is essentially a raping of this rich, virgin land. One of the men driven by this madness (and many, many more) is Daniel Plainview, whose outward mask of benevolent capitalism and civility is revealed to mask a soul that's even darker than the black gold he lusts for, and whose greed and utter contempt for the rest of humanity is the central driving force behind Paul Thomas Anderson's There Will Be Blood, an absolutely epic, monolithic historical drama that towers over cinema as tall as the derricks looming over the SoCal landscape.

Blood tells the story of Plainview, an unrepentantly avaricious, misanthropic prospector looking to exploit the naive, innocent locals caught in the middle of the Southern California oil boom of the early 20th century, using any number of deceiftful machinations he can, along with the friendly facade of running a "family business" with his besuited, 10 year-old son H.W. as a prop (who is really the orphan of a worker who died a decade ago on one of Plainview's worksites), all in order to ruthlessly screw people out of their own land. A tip on the location of a fertile new oilfield ripe for the drilling brings Plainview to Little Boston, a small, rural community which is held underneath the sway of Eli Sunday, a fanatical but scrupleless local preacher/"faith healer", who's looking to, whether in a religious manner or just an old-fashioned financial sense, profit off of Plainview's presence in his community, just the same as Plainview desires to profit off the community itself (the same community that Eli was already exploiting in the first place, it must be noted). And, as the bitter conflict between the two men and the insitutions they represent grows more and more, and the various personal turmoils he faces keep piling up, Plainview's public mask of being a polite, genial local businessman begins to gradually slip, as the nature of his true, naked, murderous misanthropy is revealed more and more, resulting in one of the greatest inner journeys I've seen in any film character ever, full stop

Not that Daniel's arc is great because he fundamentally changes as a human being, as it becomes obvious that he started off as a hateful man and just gets worse as the film unfolds, and there's no real moment here where it seems like he could fully redeem, or even just better himself slightly (sorry, this just isn't that kind of movie). Rather, his personal journey is great to witness here because of the striking, undeniably powerful ways in which it's executed, of course, not least of which comes from Daniel Day-Lewis's iconic, Oscar-winning portrayal of him, an utterly convincing, absolutely commanding performance, to the point where it seems less like acting, and more like Paul Thomas Anderson invented a time machine and brought Plainview straight from 1911 to present day, merely for authenticity's sake. It truly is one of film's all-time greatest feats of acting, an overwhelming tour-de-force of oily, slyly manipulative tones, concealed hatreds, and cerebral bore stares that could pierce titanium, and, while I have to admit that Lewis does go just a bit too over-the-top with his unhinged histrionics during the film's epilogue, for the most part he's successful in fully, 100% embodying the role here, and it should come as no surprise that, even as one of most legendary, venerated actors of his generation (if not the most), with so.many great, iconic roles to his name, his Plainview has still become one of the most beloved performances of his entire career, if not the most beloved, period

Of course, the other aspects of Blood are equally important in making it such a good film, especially the overall style of PTA's direction, which fascinates with its emphasis on subtly sweeping, slowly developing tracking shots that manage to impress while still restraining themselves from being overly showy, long, extended takes that allow Anderson's compelling, richly-written dialogue and the actors deftly sparring with it room to breathe, and with its wide, expansive vistas of the barren, alien California landscapes that sharply contrast with facial close-ups so intense, you can practically smell the sweat coming off of the performers. And all of that isn't even mentioning the disconcerting hum of Johnny Greenwood's borderline avant-garde, dissonance-heavy score, which often creates an overall effect here that can only be described as downright hypnotic, and, to this day, it's still one of the great injustices in cinema history that, not only did this score not win the Oscar for Best Score the following year, it wasn't even nominated, which just goes to demonstrate the sort of dull, conservative attitude toward cinema that dominated The Academy at the time (and still does, to a certain extent).

And finally, There Will Be Blood excels through the strong, constant conflict between its central personalities, the clash between the figureheads of Daniel and Eli and the various American institutions they represent, though Anderson often shows the two mortal enemies (and the forces driving them, respectively) to be barely distinguishable, if at all. Plainview is the consumerate American capitalist and then some, increasingly erratic as his personal fortune grows, unabashedly greedy to the point of murder, and only concerned with his own financial success even when his own workers, friends, and even family suffer as a result, while Sunday, instead of spreading the love of the God that he claims to believe in, is only really concerned with personal glory, whether it be using the presence of oil in Little Boston to wring extra money out of Daniel to supposedly use on his church (where he practices his frenzied, hysterical "faith healing" on the gullible local populace), trying to exploit the opening of the local oil well in order to promote himself first and only, and very readily abandoning his faith and claiming that he is "a false prophet and God is a superstition" when forced to beg for help by Daniel. The entire affair is an epic, sprawling commentary on two iconic institutions of American life, wrapped inside of a ceaselessly fascinating dual-character study that spans decades, and one of the better films of the 2000's at least, if not one of the best, and, since I feel I've written more than enough about this movie by now, I suppose you could say that I'm finished? Yes, I believe I am, so... I'm finished!!!

And go watch TWBB, by the way.
Favorite Moment:
"I've abandoned my child!"
Final Score: 9.25

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Sat May 05, 2018 12:30 pm
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Stu wrote:
Image

I have a competition in me... I want no one else to succeed.

Oil; the thick, black, precious liquid bubbles away omniously, incessantly, lying underground as far as the eye can see across the desolate, turn-of-the-century California landscape, as people are quite literally baptized and buried in it, so insidiously pervasive its presence is here, as it drives men mad with a lustful, insatiable greed, planting fantasies in their heads of becoming impossibly rich from what is essentially a raping of this rich, virgin land. One of the men driven by this madness (and many, many more) is Daniel Plainview, whose outward mask of benevolent capitalism and civility is revealed to mask a soul that's even darker than the black gold he lusts for, and whose greed and utter contempt for the rest of humanity is the central driving force behind Paul Thomas Anderson's There Will Be Blood, an absolutely epic, monolithic historical drama that towers over cinema as tall as the derricks looming over the SoCal landscape, as the film excels as a sort of case study in how the twin forces of capitalism and religion came to collide in defining the American experience, even though, as Anderson portrays them here, the two are often completely indistinguishable from one another.

Blood tells the story of Plainview, an unrepentantly avaricious, misanthropic prospector looking to exploit the naive, innocent locals caught in the middle of the Southern California oil boom of the early 20th century, using any number of deceiftful machinations he can, along with the friendly facade of running a "family business" with his besuited, 10 year-old son H.W. as a prop (who is really the orphan of a worker who died a decade ago on one of Plainview's worksites), all in order to ruthlessly screw people out of their own land. A tip on the location of a fertile new oilfield ripe for the drilling brings Plainview to Little Boston, a small, rural community which is held underneath the sway of Eli Sunday, a fanatical but scrupleless local preacher/"faith healer", who's looking to, whether in a religious manner or just an old-fashioned financial sense, profit off of Plainview's presence in his community, just the same as Plainview desires to profit off the community itself (the same community that Eli was already exploiting in the first place, it must be noted). And, as the bitter conflict between the two men and the insitutions they represent grows more and more, and the various personal turmoils he faces keep piling up, Plainview's public mask of being a polite, genial local businessman begins to gradually slip, as the nature of his true, naked, murderous misanthropy is revealed more and more, resulting in one of the greatest inner journeys I've seen in any film character ever, full stop

Not that Daniel's arc is great because he fundamentally changes as a human being, as it becomes obvious that he started off as a hateful man and just gets worse as the film unfolds, and there's no real moment here where it seems like he could fully redeem, or even just better himself slightly (sorry, this just isn't that kind of movie). Rather, his personal journey is great to witness here because of the striking, undeniably powerful ways in which it's executed, of course, not least of which comes from Daniel Day-Lewis's iconic, Oscar-winning portrayal of him, an utterly convincing, absolutely commanding performance, to the point where it seems less like acting, and more like Paul Thomas Anderson invented a time machine and brought Plainview straight from 1911 to present day, merely for authenticity's sake. It truly is one of film's all-time greatest feats of acting, an overwhelming tour-de-force of oily, slyly manipulative tones, concealed hatreds, and cerebral bore stares that could pierce titanium, and, while I have to admit that Lewis does go just a bit too over-the-top with his unhinged histrionics during the film's epilogue, for the most part he's successful in fully, 100% embodying the role here, and it should come as no surprise that, even as one of most legendary, venerated actors of his generation (if not the most), with so.many great, iconic roles to his name, his Plainview has still become one of the most beloved performances of his entire career, if not the most beloved, period

Of course, the other aspects of Blood are equally important in making it such a good film, especially the overall style of PTA's direction, which fascinates with its emphasis on subtly sweeping, slowly developing tracking shots that manage to impress while still restraining themselves from being overly showy, long, extended takes that allow Anderson's compelling, richly-written dialogue and the actors deftly sparring with it room to breathe, and with its wide, expansive vistas of the barren, alien California landscapes that sharply contrast with facial close-ups so intense, you can practically smell the sweat coming off of the performers. And all of that isn't even mentioning the disconcerting hum of Johnny Greenwood's borderline avant-garde, dissonance-heavy score, which often creates an overall effect here that can only be described as downright hypnotic, and, to this day, it's still one of the great injustices in cinema history that, not only did this score not win the Oscar for Best Score the following year, it wasn't even nominated, which just goes to demonstrate the sort of dull, conservative attitude toward cinema that dominated The Academy at the time (and still does, to a certain extent).

And finally, There Will Be Blood excels through the strong, constant conflict between its central personalities, the clash between the figureheads of Daniel and Eli and the various American institutions they represent, though again, Anderson often shows the two mortal enemies (and the forces driving them, respectively) to be barely distinguishable, if at all. Plainview is the consumerate American capitalist and then some, increasingly erratic as his personal fortune grows, unabashedly greedy to the point of murder, and only concerned with his own financial success even when his own workers, friends, and even family suffer as a result, while Sunday, instead of spreading the love of the God that he claims to believe in, is only really concerned with personal glory, whether it be using the presence of oil in Little Boston to wring extra money out of Daniel to supposedly use on his church (where he practices his frenzied, hysterical "faith healing" on the gullible local populace), trying to exploit the opening of the local oil well in order to promote himself first and only, and very readily abandoning his faith and claiming that he is "a false prophet and God is a superstition" when forced to beg for help by Daniel. The entire affair is an epic, sprawling commentary on two iconic institutions of American life, wrapped inside of a ceaselessly fascinating dual-character study that spans decades, and one of the better films of the 2000's at least, if not one of the best, and, since I feel I've written more than enough about this movie by now, I suppose you could say that I'm finished? Yes, I believe I am, so... I'm finished!!!

And go watch TWBB, by the way.
Favorite Moment:
"I've abandoned my child!"
Final Score: 9.25



Yes, TWBB is great. But NCFOM was the better film that year...


Sat May 05, 2018 12:53 pm
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:


Yes, TWBB is great. But NCFOM was the better film that year...
It really was. But that speaks to the abundance of riches we had in 2007. Why, I might even throw The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford into the conversation.

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Sat May 05, 2018 12:57 pm
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TWBB was by far the better film and it's still unfortunate it didn't win.


Sat May 05, 2018 1:02 pm
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TWBB vs Zodiac vs NCFOM. GO.


Sat May 05, 2018 1:22 pm
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:


Yes, TWBB is great. But NCFOM was the better film that year...
Sure, and at one time, No Country was even my favorite film, period, which is a concept I don't like to subscribe to anymore (that of having to choose any one singular movie as a top favorite over everything), but I do still think it's as close to perfect as a movie can get, so I'll definitely rewatch/review it someday, when in the mood for it.
BL wrote:
It really was. But that speaks to the abundance of riches we had in 2007. Why, I might even throw The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford into the conversation.
Never saw that one (though I definitely want to), but I'd also throw Zodiac into the conversation as another really good movie from one of the best movie years in recent memory (maybe of all time, even).

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Sat May 05, 2018 1:22 pm
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Ace wrote:
TWBB vs Zodiac vs NCFOM. GO.


TWBB
Zodiac
NCFOM


Sat May 05, 2018 1:32 pm
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Blood Frenzy (1987) D

Found a copy of this on Youtube. A pretty lousy straight to video slasher with a bad cast. They could have really made a good claustrophobic thriller out of the desert setting but instead set-it up for cliches galor.


Sat May 05, 2018 1:51 pm
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ski petrol wrote:

TWBB
Zodiac
NCFOM


NCFOM
TWBB
Zodiac

Weren't we going to throw in the Jesse James film too?


Sat May 05, 2018 2:10 pm
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Zodiac

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The Hateful Eight |Tarantino, 2015| +

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Sat May 05, 2018 4:33 pm
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TWBB
Zodiac
Death Proof
NCFOM


Sat May 05, 2018 5:11 pm
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In Zodaic, the suspense when Gyllenhaal is in that guy's basement is worth the price of admission.

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Sat May 05, 2018 9:19 pm
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I'll play:

NCFOM
-----------
TWBB
Zodiac
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Jesse James


Sun May 06, 2018 12:48 am
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To Google! I knew I was forgetting something...

Eastern Promises
Superbad
Hot Fuzz
Sunshine
Bourne Ultimatum
Norbit
Perfume: Story of a Murderer
300
Grindhouse
Once
Bug
Ratatouille
Stardust
Epic Movie
The Darjeeling Limited
Lars and the Real Girl
Gone Baby Gone
The Mist
Daddy Day Camp
AVP: Requiem
The Orphanage.

And that's that I only included truly outstanding films or movies that had significant cinematic impact. Truly a robust year.


Sun May 06, 2018 12:56 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Norbit
Epic Movie
Daddy Day Camp
AVP: Requiem.

And that's that I only included truly outstanding films or movies that had significant cinematic impact.
Some of these things are not like the others
Some of these things just don't belong
Can you tell which things are not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

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Sun May 06, 2018 2:07 am
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Infinity War felt 12 hours long and I guess there's some cool stuff in there but there's no emphasis because it has to race to the next plot point. I liked the ending but felt exhausted more than anything else at that point. Thanos poses an actual threat which is nice but looks so goddamn dumb. I thought the Russo brothers did a good job tying together the franchise in Civil War, but here the demands are too great.

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Sun May 06, 2018 6:03 am
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Ace wrote:
TWBB vs Zodiac vs NCFOM. GO.


I have no idea how to answer this. I tried and no permutation I came up with looked right.


Sun May 06, 2018 6:18 am
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Rock wrote:
Infinity War felt 12 hours long and I guess there's some cool stuff in there but there's no emphasis because it has to race to the next plot point. I liked the ending but felt exhausted more than anything else at that point. Thanos poses an actual threat which is nice but looks so goddamn dumb. I thought the Russo brothers did a good job tying together the franchise in Civil War, but here the demands are too great.


I assume it is important to have watched all of the other movies to have any real understanding of what is going on in Infinity Wars? Good thing I barely watched any of the others and so don't have to worry about it, I guess.


Sun May 06, 2018 6:20 am
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crumbsroom wrote:

I assume it is important to have watched all of the other movies to have any real understanding of what is going on in Infinity Wars? Good thing I barely watched any of the others and so don't have to worry about it, I guess.

Not necessarily to follow what's happening, but for any of it to have resonance as it assumes that you care about all these characters, even crap ones like Vision. The movie actually does a decent job establishing stakes, as Thanos is a big purple dude who wants to kill half the people in the universe and is actually an imposing (if still dumb-looking) villain, but there's just so much plot to get through that it gets very hard to care about or be impressed by anything that happens. It's like someone yelling a giant run-on sentence at you, when they really should lower their voice, break it down into multiple sentences and be more selective about the ones they yell out. I don't care if that's a terrible analogy, it's the one I'm sticking with.

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Sun May 06, 2018 7:28 am
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Rock wrote:
Not necessarily to follow what's happening, but for any of it to have resonance as it assumes that you care about all these characters, even crap ones like Vision. The movie actually does a decent job establishing stakes, as Thanos is a big purple dude who wants to kill half the people in the universe and is actually an imposing (if still dumb-looking) villain, but there's just so much plot to get through that it gets very hard to care about or be impressed by anything that happens. It's like someone yelling a giant run-on sentence at you, when they really should lower their voice, break it down into multiple sentences and be more selective about the ones they yell out. I don't care if that's a terrible analogy, it's the one I'm sticking with.


Rock, buddy. We all gotta be wrong some times. Try to enjoy it.


Sun May 06, 2018 9:57 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:

Rock, buddy. We all gotta be wrong some times. Try to enjoy it.

You've got a lot of stones for saying that. Infinity stones, that is.

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Sun May 06, 2018 10:36 am
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Rock wrote:
Not necessarily to follow what's happening, but for any of it to have resonance as it assumes that you care about all these characters, even crap ones like Vision. The movie actually does a decent job establishing stakes, as Thanos is a big purple dude who wants to kill half the people in the universe and is actually an imposing (if still dumb-looking) villain, but there's just so much plot to get through that it gets very hard to care about or be impressed by anything that happens. It's like someone yelling a giant run-on sentence at you, when they really should lower their voice, break it down into multiple sentences and be more selective about the ones they yell out. I don't care if that's a terrible analogy, it's the one I'm sticking with.


That's actual a great analogy!
People have been struggling to describe how the film is structurally different, but I don't think the structure is all that unconventional. Rather it is the RATE of the the film (events and exposition) which is quite different. The film can't work for everyone. I think you provide a nice description of how this approach didn't work for you. Moreover, this is a pretty good warning for ham-fisted copycats. Look at what has already happened to DC rushing to duplicate the success of the Marvel Universe or the failure of the Universal Dark Universe.

Let me give you another analogy. It's like opera. This film is like the end of the opera, the finale, where ALL the prior musical themes comeback at the same time and are played together as counterpoint. Unless you've already created musical themes that will fit together, it will be cacophonous. Each character in MCU is pre-established so they can be shown to us enthymatically (today would say meme-atically) in small iconic moments, repeat leitmotifs.

Do it wrong, and yes, I think it would be very much like someone yelling a run-on sentence. That is a great way of putting it. Done right (for most of us, it was) and it is just balls-to-the wall storytelling with the fat trimmed off and the audience respected (and expected) to keep up.


Sun May 06, 2018 11:49 am
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Rock wrote:
You've got a lot of stones for saying that. Infinity stones, that is.

That's it. I'm throwing down the gauntlet.

The Infinity Gauntlet, that is.


Sun May 06, 2018 11:54 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
That's it. I'm throwing down the gauntlet.

The Infinity Gauntlet, that is.

This means war.

Infinity war, that is.

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Sun May 06, 2018 12:46 pm
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Let me give you another analogy. It's like opera. This film is like the end of the opera, the finale, where ALL the prior musical themes comeback at the same time and are played together as counterpoint. Unless you've already created musical themes that will fit together, it will be cacophonous. Each character in MCU is pre-established so they can be shown to us enthymatically (today would say meme-atically) in small iconic moments, repeat leitmotifs.

Yeah, some of these movies are basically the finales to the seasons comprised of the rest of the movies, so your enjoyment of them will obviously depend on your enjoyment of the preceding movies. (More analogies!) I'm less sold on the concept of this shared universe form of storytelling than most, not because it's unreasonable to develop significance across multiple movies, but because I find some of the movies are too lazy to handle their own setups and payoffs, and cheat you of sufficient narrative nourishment within themselves, and assume that something deserves audience investment merely because of its recurrence, not because of anything interesting actually happening to that thing. (This is a run-on sentence, and I won't stop yelling.) This movie is less guilty of that because it actually sets up its own stakes (to the point that the sneak peeks of Thanos in earlier movies feel redundant and like the shameless marketing efforts they are), and as i said, my issues are more with the sheer volume of plot and relentless pace. But I feel that if it didn't insist on giving every character their due to pay off every episode of the season, it could have allowed for a more focused film with more breathing room for its more spectacular moments.

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Sun May 06, 2018 1:08 pm
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Rock wrote:
Not necessarily to follow what's happening, but for any of it to have resonance as it assumes that you care about all these characters, even crap ones like Vision. The movie actually does a decent job establishing stakes, as Thanos is a big purple dude who wants to kill half the people in the universe and is actually an imposing (if still dumb-looking) villain, but there's just so much plot to get through that it gets very hard to care about or be impressed by anything that happens. It's like someone yelling a giant run-on sentence at you, when they really should lower their voice, break it down into multiple sentences and be more selective about the ones they yell out. I don't care if that's a terrible analogy, it's the one I'm sticking with.

Huh.
And my response was how pleased I was that they had all these little character moments constantly throughout the film and subverted a lot of action to these moments.
And that this is exactly why they're always kicking DC's ass, because the audience always cares more about the characters in Marvel movies than the story.
And I really like Vision. (Although I'll concede that too much of his story was cut out of Age Of Ultron.)


Sun May 06, 2018 1:12 pm
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Rock wrote:
This means war.

Infinity war, that is.

Alright, you two.


Sun May 06, 2018 1:13 pm
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:

That's actual a great analogy!
People have been struggling to describe how the film is structurally different, but I don't think the structure is all that unconventional. Rather it is the RATE of the the film (events and exposition) which is quite different. The film can't work for everyone. I think you provide a nice description of how this approach didn't work for you. Moreover, this is a pretty good warning for ham-fisted copycats. Look at what has already happened to DC rushing to duplicate the success of the Marvel Universe or the failure of the Universal Dark Universe.

Let me give you another analogy. It's like opera. This film is like the end of the opera, the finale, where ALL the prior musical themes comeback at the same time and are played together as counterpoint. Unless you've already created musical themes that will fit together, it will be cacophonous. Each character in MCU is pre-established so they can be shown to us enthymatically (today would say meme-atically) in small iconic moments, repeat leitmotifs.

Do it wrong, and yes, I think it would be very much like someone yelling a run-on sentence. That is a great way of putting it. Done right (for most of us, it was) and it is just balls-to-the wall storytelling with the fat trimmed off and the audience respected (and expected) to keep up.

Yeah, I can see it that way.


Sun May 06, 2018 1:14 pm
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Rock wrote:
Not necessarily to follow what's happening, but for any of it to have resonance as it assumes that you care about all these characters, even crap ones like Vision. The movie actually does a decent job establishing stakes, as Thanos is a big purple dude who wants to kill half the people in the universe and is actually an imposing (if still dumb-looking) villain, but there's just so much plot to get through that it gets very hard to care about or be impressed by anything that happens. It's like someone yelling a giant run-on sentence at you, when they really should lower their voice, break it down into multiple sentences and be more selective about the ones they yell out. I don't care if that's a terrible analogy, it's the one I'm sticking with.


That's a great way of putting it; I felt much the same way.

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Sun May 06, 2018 4:39 pm
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Infinity War was... exhausting.

And that's not to say that it's a bad movie, it's a miracle they pulled this off without making it an incoherent mess.
It just didn't do anything for me.


Sun May 06, 2018 7:13 pm
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Wooley wrote:
Huh.
And my response was how pleased I was that they had all these little character moments constantly throughout the film and subverted a lot of action to these moments.
And that this is exactly why they're always kicking DC's ass, because the audience always cares more about the characters in Marvel movies than the story.
And I really like Vision. (Although I'll concede that too much of his story was cut out of Age Of Ultron.)

I haven't seen Justice League, but I agree that Marvel is going about this shared universe thing more intelligently than DC (comparing Civil War and its conflict of values between characters we've grown attached to versus the rushed clash of titans in BvS).

I like that there were character moments, but I think they needed some downtime to work. I think the Russos have been pretty good with them on the whole, but I think back to that driving conversation between Cap and Black Widow in Winter Soldier or the Trouble Man bit in that same movie and how those scenes landed because the movie was able to slow down for them.

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Mon May 07, 2018 4:25 am
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Rock wrote:
I haven't seen Justice League, but I agree that Marvel is going about this shared universe thing more intelligently than DC (comparing Civil War and its conflict of values between characters we've grown attached to versus the rushed clash of titans in BvS).

I like that there were character moments, but I think they needed some downtime to work. I think the Russos have been pretty good with them on the whole, but I think back to that driving conversation between Cap and Black Widow in Winter Soldier or the Trouble Man bit in that same movie and how those scenes landed because the movie was able to slow down for them.

The movie has plenty of scenes that "slow down." The middle act is virtually a series of conversations.


Mon May 07, 2018 5:23 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
The movie has plenty of scenes that "slow down." The middle act is virtually a series of conversations.


We know these characters, but they don't all know each other, so a lot of "Who the hell are you?" scenes. But the film does move at a very quick pace. If this were the first Marvel film you watched, you would be lost.

The film really only slows down for Thanos. This is his story and we don't know him, so we have to learn. They must've done a good job of it, because a lot of people who have seen the film report that they can see his point of view. But there is very little fat on the bone. The film is very plot-dense and trades on our familiarity with characters and expects us to keep up.


Mon May 07, 2018 5:40 am
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:

We know these characters, but they don't all know each other, so a lot of "Who the hell are you?" scenes. But the film does move at a very quick pace. If this were the first Marvel film you watched, you would be lost.

The film really only slows down for Thanos. This is his story and we don't know him, so we have to learn. They must've done a good job of it, because a lot of people who have seen the film report that they can see his point of view. But there is very little fat on the bone. The film is very plot-dense and trades on our familiarity with characters and expects us to keep up.


It still has scenes like Vision and Scarlet Witch bonding in the hotel room and "Be the Captain" between Rocket and Thor, which I would put above the aforementioned Winter Soldier scenes, among others. There is little fat but it's not as though it's in constant crescendo. There are also numerous scenes that slow down to develop Thanos.

I don't think it banking on our familiarity with the franchise should be seen as a negative any more than the finale of a season.


Mon May 07, 2018 6:08 am
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