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 A Corrierino Awareness Thread 
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crumbsroom wrote:
While on this topic, does anyone know why Nim was ultimately exiled (or just left)? It's Trump right?

I don't remember Nim ever going full Trump, in fact he was saying how important it was for Trump to lose in the most dramatic way possible to discourage anyone following his path. But Nim is (apparently) a member of the Federalist Society, a group that has largely sucked up the Trump reality and has been cheerleading his deregulation agenda. So either Nim isn't interested in defending this agenda within what he must recognize is a hostile environment to it, especially given the number of "yeah, but" rationalizations that would require, or Nim is as depressed as many of us over the forum's disappearance and decided to call it a day. In fact, I remember Nim saying something similar when they were plotting various exodus' to other forums, that he'd rather just quit posting than die in a diaspora.


Fri May 11, 2018 12:00 pm
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I'm always a little apprehensive on getting too too hung up on cultural appropriation since there is always the danger of speaking the same language as the white nationalist crowd, that all cultures should be separate from one another.

at least with Isle of Dogs (and to some extent the Ghost in the Shell remake), Japan has its own successful movie/TV industry so it's not as if it is appropriating from a voiceless country.

the representation of Asian-Americans in movies/TV is a different story though.


Fri May 11, 2018 12:01 pm
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Is it a question of cultural appropriation to observe that explosions in Isle of Dogs are rendered as cutesy mushroom clouds, and that's fucking despicable given the history of U.S.-Japan relations?

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Fri May 11, 2018 12:37 pm
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BL wrote:
Is it a question of cultural appropriation to observe that explosions in Isle of Dogs are rendered as cutesy mushroom clouds, and that's fucking despicable given the history of U.S.-Japan relations?

"Japanese people love Wes Anderson".

Besides, it's not like he served them dessert in a shoe or something.


Fri May 11, 2018 12:57 pm
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Jinnistan wrote:
"Japanese people love Wes Anderson".

Besides, it's not like he served them dessert in a shoe or something.
Except that there's a pretty wide chasm between a shoe, which can serve many a metaphoric purpose among cultures, and a mushroom cloud, which references a singular event in human history.

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Fri May 11, 2018 1:10 pm
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Japan and cultural appropriation is always a fun discussion because Japan is the absolute WORST at cultural appropriation. As much as I like Aggretsuko, the Gorilla is a black woman, and this is contemporary work from one of the largest companies in Japan. It's a big "goes both ways", and Japan is more than capable at dissing America to extreme extents... see 99% of Anime and Japanese video games

I agree that the mushroom clouds are gross. Sometimes the ribbing goes a bit far


Fri May 11, 2018 1:11 pm
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You guys are aware that Wily Coyote also made little mushroom clouds when he fell from great distances?

Without an initial flash, incendiary shadows or any of the other very traumatic reminders of 1945, in addition to the clouds being very small and without a lot of fire in them, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that neither Wes intended it as a direct atomic reference nor the Japanese took it as such. I base the latter on not yet having heard about any Japanese citing it as offensive. The film did very well in Japan. Japanese people love Wes Anderson.


Fri May 11, 2018 1:20 pm
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Can we all agree to ignore the whole Laurel/Yanny thing? I mean, later, after this post. Not only am I afraid that this suspiciously compressed audio file will turn us all into murderous Pontypool Cesares, but, like "the dress" :shifty: as I wasn't aware we were calling it, it seems designed to rile up the worst instincts of social media combativeness. Not since the sanguine days of 80s Miller Lite commercials have we had to deal with such obstinate antagonism and divisiveness. And over what? Who's playing these games on us? Cloe Feldman? Who the fuck?

I haven't listened to the clip (because fools!) but I'm going to safely assume that it involves the same kind of subtle perceptual manipulation as "the dress" :shifty: and that it turns out that people generally have just as poor an understanding of audio frequency dynamics as they had of lighting effects on fabrics. Don't click on this disease.


Thu May 17, 2018 1:06 am
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Instead, let's talk about Rand Paul for a second.

Who's got good money that the CIA will admit to him that they had him under surveillance as a presidential candidate?

Yeah, me neither.


Thu May 17, 2018 1:08 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
Can we all agree to ignore the whole Laurel/Yanny thing? I mean, later, after this post. Not only am I afraid that this suspiciously compressed audio file will turn us all into murderous Pontypool Cesares, but, like "the dress" :shifty: as I wasn't aware we were calling it, it seems designed to rile up the worst instincts of social media combativeness. Not since the sanguine days of 80s Miller Lite commercials have we had to deal with such obstinate antagonism and divisiveness. And over what? Who's playing these games on us? Cloe Feldman? Who the fuck?

I haven't listened to the clip (because fools!) but I'm going to safely assume that it involves the same kind of subtle perceptual manipulation as "the dress" :shifty: and that it turns out that people generally have just as poor an understanding of audio frequency dynamics as they had of lighting effects on fabrics. Don't click on this disease.
Pretty much. If you know what to listen for, it's just a high-frequency recording saying "Yanny" and a low-frequency recording saying "Laurel." Knowing that, you can actually hear both simultaneously or toggle between the two if you concentrate. This is even more manufactured than the dress, since the origin of that photo was accidental enough. And the dress was just objectively black and blue; fix your fucking eyes, people.

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Thu May 17, 2018 1:14 am
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BL wrote:
Pretty much. If you know what to listen for, it's just a high-frequency recording saying "Yanny" and a low-frequency recording saying "Laurel." Knowing that, you can actually hear both simultaneously or toggle between the two if you concentrate.

I knew it! Shenanigans! I saw something where you can hear each of them distinctly at differing speeds - Laurel at higher speeds and Yanny at slower ones. I started to think that someone had masked the two together, which isn't a particularly difficult trick for an audio engineer. Still, you're all going to die. Don't eat my brain, BL.

BL wrote:
This is even more manufactured than the dress, since the origin of that photo was accidental enough. And the dress was just objectively black and blue; fix your fucking eyes, people.

Urgh. Again, it's all in the lighting, and in that picture the light was horrendous. The blue is paled by it (it's closer to a greyish powder blue in that photo) and what I assume is the sun's reflection is causing the "gold" in the black. I'm not going to relitigate this. Light does weird things to colors, and since everyone wants to be an amateur instagram photographer, everyone should already know this.


Thu May 17, 2018 2:07 am
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I like this little tidbit from Giuliani, ever the unwitting oracle: "When Comey closed [the case] in July — although I think it was a complete whitewash — I’d like to have them do that for us."

After all, doesn't Trump deserve the same whitewashing treatment from Mueller? Other than the fact that Mueller is only there because this whitewashing was apparently the reason why Comey was fired in the first place?

#Illici


Thu May 17, 2018 5:00 am
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"Every time you have that soil or rock or whatever it is that is deposited into the seas, that forces the sea levels to rise, because now you have less space in those oceans, because the bottom is moving up."

now I'm not saying this guy isn't wrong but if we can at least admit that the sea levels are rising then that means we still need a plan to deal with displaced coastal populations.

I remain frustrated at how dismissive some people can be of this problem.


Fri May 18, 2018 12:57 pm
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In the "tweets that haven't aged well" department:


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Sat May 19, 2018 4:21 am
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just as an aside, did anybody read the NYT profile on Jordan Peterson? he has somewhat been on my radar since several of my peers have begun following him/posting his videos.

Quote:
Violent attacks are what happens when men do not have partners, Mr. Peterson says, and society needs to work to make sure those men are married.

“He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”

Mr. Peterson does not pause when he says this. Enforced monogamy is, to him, simply a rational solution. Otherwise women will all only go for the most high-status men, he explains, and that couldn’t make either gender happy in the end.

“Half the men fail,” he says, meaning that they don’t procreate. “And no one cares about the men who fail.”

I laugh, because it is absurd.

“You’re laughing about them,” he says, giving me a disappointed look. “That’s because you’re female.”

But aside from interventions that would redistribute sex, Mr. Peterson is staunchly against what he calls “equality of outcomes,” or efforts to equalize society. He usually calls them pathological or evil.

He agrees that this is inconsistent. But preventing hordes of single men from violence, he believes, is necessary for the stability of society. Enforced monogamy helps neutralize that.


is this guy for real? is this what happens when conservatism moves away from religion-enforced celibacy? not to mention whatever the hell this was supposed to say.

something ain't right with our fellow men.


Sat May 19, 2018 11:15 am
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
just as an aside, did anybody read the NYT profile on Jordan Peterson? he has somewhat been on my radar since several of my peers have begun following him/posting his videos.



is this guy for real? is this what happens when conservatism moves away from religion-enforced celibacy? not to mention whatever the hell this was supposed to say.

something ain't right with our fellow men.


Living in Toronto I've been at ground zero for this guys slow emergence as some kind of 'big thinker' that the alt right now trots out to appear intellectually respectable. It's mostly kind of sad how in awe some seem to be in regards to these deep thoughts of his. He's a fraud and yes, he is unfortunately real. Unsurprisingly Bill Maher and Joe Rogan seem to be endeared by him, since they too are both similar to him in that they are moderately informed dumb asses.


Sat May 19, 2018 11:28 am
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
Is this guy for real?


The short answer is no. The long answer is that he is seriously credentialed as a behavioral psychologist, but he far exceeds his expertise in most of his popular online arguments, and anyone with a passing familiarity with logical fallacies should be able to spot how pervasive they are in said arguments. There are a few videos online that catch him getting pretty close to acknowledging he's exploiting a dumb audience desperate for validation from a serious academic (I think his biggest slip in this regard came in a portion of his interview with Joe Rogan, but that interaction runs close to three hours and I'll be damned if I'm going to listen to that again).

Also, he sounds like a Canadian Kermit the Frog, which is pretty amusing.

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Sat May 19, 2018 11:30 am
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I watched a couple of Peterson's videos online a couple months ago, and they were of the generic self-help bullshittery he does that's inoffensive and superficially well-meaning, but then after reading the commentary on and around him... yeesh. This NYT article is gonna be enough for people like Harris and Maher to think twice about booking him, and they have made some deeply embarrassing bookings (I was much happier before learning that Scott Adams and Bari Weiss are the ostensible intellectual voices of the right).

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Sat May 19, 2018 2:33 pm
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DaMU wrote:
(I was much happier before learning that Scott Adams and Bari Weiss are the ostensible intellectual voices of the right).


hey don't be sleepin' on The Cool Kid's Philosopher. before he hits you with those Aristotle references.

(he's really another person I would do well to ignore but he is somewhat popular among my college peers and I'll see him out of the corner of my eye from time to time)


Sat May 19, 2018 10:06 pm
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
something ain't right with our fellow men.

Since we (Americans) have had our 16th school shooting this year, I think that it's worth weighing things like the incel community and Jesus Peterson as important cultural cues for why this is so.

I don't want to take the NRA or access to gun away from the debate exactly, but I have to admit that I feel it's only a part of the problem. For example, access to these guns are today still roughly the same as it was in 2005 after Congress repealed the assault weapon ban, but there's been a steady uptick in these kinds of mass shootings (largely apolitical young men with no social skills) only over the past 6 years. We have to acknowledge that there is something cultural which is allowing these young men to consider such violent acting out as an acceptable form of protest for their alienation. This is precisely where MRA rubber meets the incel road. And Peterson is vying for their spokesman position, so it both makes complete sense and is an alarming development to see him supporting a position like "enforced monogamy". I have to assume he's making this calculation on behalf of his newfound revenue stream, because (I may be wrong) he seems at least sharp enough to understand that, for someone like himself who rails against any and all forms of Marxism and "end of outcome"* solutions, it would be absurd for him to consciously just decide that, on the other hand, maybe the one sole form of righteous redistribution is in "erotic capital" (again, Peterson has explicitly criticized Marx for reducing everything to economics), and the only equality of outcome is in love for the (male) lonely. Or he could be too cracked to notice this hypocrisy, who knows, but I feel like it's polite to assume a saner form of dishonesty on his part.

It's a bit of a ransom, "ladies, you won't like us when we're horny". The more significant change over the last decade, as access to firearms has largely remained a constant, is the development of these online havens for the more sullen and resentful young males. It's been a cliche forever that the most accurate predictor of a war is having a large population of bored young men. I'm not suggesting any legislative fixes to their speech or advocating our acquiesence to their randy demands. I think it' important to recognize that these developments, social and technological, rhyme with increased gun violence more than it is typically being given credit for. After all, hasn't the latest defectors from Facebook and Google been perfectly clear about how they've designed their platforms to capitalize (the fear of) alienation? Alienation is what keeps us glued to our likes and shares and details of our "friends"' lifestyles and updates. And it happens to inversely correlate with eroded social skills and expectations.

Peterson, like Trump in many ways, is a symptom that people should probably pay closer attention to. The problem with the NYT piece is that it doesn't, and there's probably more than a few who will view it as proof of this elitist liberal conspiracy of alienation that they've imprecisely built around themselves.

(*"end of outcome" is an alt-right favorite phrase to strawman socialism into its most ridiculous form, and any utterance of it should be enough to clue you in that you're speaking to a moron.)


Sun May 20, 2018 1:36 am
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Oh, remember how much fun it was to shout "lock her up!"? Remember how that was because Hellwitchery had set up a private server to shield her emails from FOIA requests and may have deleted many of them?

Scott Pruitt has just hired the guy who composed the "lock her up" chorus to run the LA office. Right in the middle of an investigation into (among many other things) Pruitt's use of multiple emails to avoid FOIA requests and an IG audit to see how many he may have deleted.

"They may have been phony in the past but they are very real now." - Sean Spicer, composing the Trump administration's epitaph for reality.


Sun May 20, 2018 2:07 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
Since we (Americans) have had our 16th school shooting this year, I think that it's worth weighing things like the incel community and Jesus Peterson as important cultural cues for why this is so.


if it matters any....


Sun May 20, 2018 4:24 pm
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:

Well, it shouldn't matter, as if he may have been rather desperate to make it matter.

Jinnistan wrote:
I think it' important to recognize that these developments, social and technological, rhyme with increased gun violence more than it is typically being given credit for. After all, hasn't the latest defectors from Facebook and Google been perfectly clear about how they've designed their platforms to capitalize (the fear of) alienation? Alienation is what keeps us glued to our likes and shares and details of our "friends"' lifestyles and updates. And it happens to inversely correlate with eroded social skills and expectations.

Or to get back to this point. Or to get back to Jordan Peterson. A big part of the flaw in his, and the incels', worldview is that young straight men are bearing the brunt of romantic isolation in our society. And, no doubt, there are a lot of young men who are increasingly romantically isolated, but there's no shortage of disaffected young women either. In fact, female teens account for the bulk of the doubled suicide rate since 2008. Can this be a parallel phenomenon to the increased self-destructive violent behavior we've seen in teen boys over this same period? Why is a school shooting increasingly an option for these boys' validation? (And remember when Heathers was absurdist satire?)

There have also been calls to stop reporting the names of school shooters, but I don't see how censoring news coverage provides much of a solution. After Charles Whitman became a mass shooting pioneer, there was not an immediate explosion of copycats attempting to enjoy the relative infamy of such recognition. People generally did not want to be famous for horrendous things. The validity between fame and infamy has eroded to the point that some kids don't value the difference. This seems more increased in a decade with "stars" like Balloon Boy, Honey Boo Boo and Lil Tay, and (for whatever related reason) there seems to be very little shortage in audiences to cheer on these horrible people.

It might seem alarmist or ludditic to claim the obvious social media correlation to these cultural degradations, but, you know, there it is. People don't like it because addicts are always very defensive people. Rather it's more important to look at the specifics of the psychological effects of the technology of persuasive design, and whether it be from thoughtful experts or industry designers themselves, there's fewer excuses not to. I think that school shootings, unhealthy celebrity obsession and increased suicides are symptoms of a larger problem. In that sense, I agree with Peterson that we should be paying closer attention to the problems of these disaffected young men. I'd add that all of the other casualties of the culture deserve their attention as well. And, obviously, I disagree that alt-right young men, especially, should be able to scapegoat their way into enforcing their selfish, Randian worldview, which appears to be Peterson's preferred solution.

And not quite as related, but since it dropped last week, I'll mention it. There was a small controversy (much smaller than Laurel/Yanny :roll: ) last week when a video presentation from Google X (responsible for their more far-flung ambitions) leaked out of their labs to the public. The video espouses the evolutionary benefits of AI by positing its function as that of the genome, using data-strands to shape the lives of future humanity. Or, to echo the ambitions of persuasive designers: "We can now create machines that can change what people think and what people do, and the machines can do that autonomously." As in, more autonomously than humans. This crosses the line from persuasive to coercive design. That Google video fails to mention how commercially lucrative such machines would be for their billion-dollar data-farm, as if that was a totally irrelevant consideration. The "well-behaved society" of the Panopticon is one thing, but it's worth noting the essential psychological benefits of privacy in our lives, benefits which are uncoincidentally uncommodifiable. And in other terms of mental health liabilities that social media corporations have no fiduciary responsibility to take into consideration, maybe it's worth asking to what extent the increased suicide/sociopathy of the youth is related to the devaluation of their private, inner lives and to what extent the social media currency coerces this rejection of their intimate selves in favor of fleeting public infamy.


Tue May 22, 2018 3:21 am
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JP does evoke memories of high-school age Oxnard Montalvo who had enough hostile feelings to lash out violently at several of his female classmates. it's stuff that I still feel guilty about, I'm not sure how eager I am to go down that memory hole to examine the cause of that behavior beyond "high school virgin/outcast insecurity/angst/other feelings I didn't give enough thought to".... I mean, I hope I've changed a lot since then. or at least that I'm not prone to seeing women as antagonists. not that there was ever any one moment that changed me, I'm guessing those feelings just sloughed off with age, experience, exposure, etc.

as for the kids these days, there's a lot with social media that I don't bother with for my own sake so I'm not exactly "in" that world enough and maybe that has to do with not growing up in it either (unless anyone has a way to determine whether or not I'm halfway to addiction. it's not like I don't use Facebook although there's still a lot I purposefully keep off it).

I'm sure you're not wrong about the detrimental effects it's causing and it's too bad that too many older folks that aren't Janson are more prone to wholly blame the kids than the environment and the companies that engineer it.


Tue May 22, 2018 5:14 am
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
I'm sure you're not wrong about the detrimental effects it's causing and it's too bad that too many older folks that aren't Janson are more prone to wholly blame the kids than the environment and the companies that engineer it.

Yeah, they could be clouds. But I wanted to post the relevant information, regarding the motives behind persuasive design as witnessed by several successful tech executives, and taking the very same psychological triggers that they admit to manipulating, and looking at the correlating data on suicides and violent behavior over this specific period in which these persuasive design technologies have become endemic, and let that speak for itself.


Tue May 22, 2018 7:23 am
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