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 A Corrierino Awareness Thread 
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Well, this has been some kind of day.

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The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.


Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:23 am
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DaMU wrote:
Well, this has been some kind of day.

It's going to be some kind of week.


Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:33 am
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I'm probably still gonna lose $20. *pouts*


Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:44 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
It's going to be some kind of week.


Are things for certain on the way, or is this your gut check?

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Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:38 am
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DaMU wrote:

Are things for certain on the way, or is this your gut check?

Have you not been entertained?

I had no special knowledge, but the smell of conflageration was strong.

#1 - Trump "corrects" the record, before immediately smudging it again, and the lights go out. No one believes him.

#2 - The best defenses of Trump have been to suggest that acknowledging Russians cyber-activities would be tantamount to WWIII, which is what everyone who hates Trump really wants.

#3 - Hannity accuses Trump's Republican critics of being unable to "keep the simplest of promises" (do tell!, which promises were these?) and "the only thing they seem to care about in life is being loved". Hannity, obviously, is immune to being loved.

#4 - Tucker Carlson claims that Mexicans have influenced elections more than Putin, citing Trump's fictitious claims of voter fraud. He then asks Trump why we should defend Montenegro, a small-city-sized nation that Trump is apparently under the impression of having designs to attack Russia sometime soon. (Gee, I wonder if Trump knows about the Russian-backed coup attempt to prevent them from joining NATO in 2016?) And finally, since Tucker can't bother to try to keep a straight-face defending Trump's weak-ass walkback, he instead accuses the deep state of holding Trump hostage and forcing him to read his apology on camera (before turning the lights off).

#5 - Trump denies that Putin is actively attempting to interfere in 2018 elections, contradicting everybody, before offering (via SHS) another disingenuous denial.

#6 - Star of The Americans, Maria Butina is arrested for sleeping her way into various conservative contacts in the NRA and CPAC. Her "sponsor" Paul Erickson had emailed Trump campaign and transition officials (including Jefferson Session, btw) about coordinating with these Russian connections. That email was titled "Kremlin Connection".

Well. That's half of the week, so far.


Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:13 am
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is this #7? if we're going to start the "What did the president know and when did he know it?" sort of questioning
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/europe/trump-intelligence-russian-election-meddling-.html

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Two weeks before his inauguration, Donald J. Trump was shown highly classified intelligence indicating that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia had personally ordered complex cyberattacks to sway the 2016 American election.

The evidence included texts and emails from Russian military officers and information gleaned from a top-secret source close to Mr. Putin, who had described to the C.I.A. how the Kremlin decided to execute its campaign of hacking and disinformation.

Mr. Trump sounded grudgingly convinced, according to several people who attended the intelligence briefing. But ever since, Mr. Trump has tried to cloud the very clear findings that he received on Jan. 6, 2017, which his own intelligence leaders have unanimously endorsed.


Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:58 pm
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
is this #7? if we're going to start the "What did the president know and when did he know it?" sort of questioning
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/europe/trump-intelligence-russian-election-meddling-.html


#8 - Let's invite Putin to Washington without telling anyone! Trump has great confidence that his intelligence agencies will find a way to figure out what he's doing!

#9 - "Obama was a patsy"

#10 - The head of the FBI leading a chorus of laughter with security professionals over the idea of Putin's "incredible offer".

#11 - "OK, that's going to be special."

#12 - The National Prayer Breakfast

#13 - Russia announces new cruise missle and laser weapon tests. Good thing Trump didn't offend them!

#14 - Of course Michael Cohen has Trump on tape.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:54 am
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I really don't know what to think of the James Gunn thing.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:57 am
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Slentert wrote:
I really don't know what to think of the James Gunn thing.

Does Michael Cohen have him on tape?


Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:58 am
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Does anyone have a link where I can see all of Gunn's tweets without having to use Mike Cernovich's twitter account?

So far, it looks like a lot of deliberately tasteless shock humor, but nothing really hateful or personally offensive. Not like, say, the tweets of Darla Shine or somebody. Do I have to start worrying about posts where I (jestfully) complain about arguing with an elderly woman just because I accidentally spilled my ejaculate recepticle while watching Fury Road because she thought her grandchildren were too precious to understand my passion?

Twitter kills context, and humor requires context. I hope we can do this math.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:12 am
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A Troma veteran making jokes in bad taste? Why, I never.

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Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:12 am
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When you write things that are meant to be upsetting, you can't really complain when people are upset by them.

I appreciate that he acknowledges that what he wrote was just for shock value, but I also feel like jokes about having sex with kids (which is a reasonable reading of several of his tweets) just aren't okay if there isn't a real purpose behind them aside from dredging up the painful and uncomfortable feelings people have about child abuse. And it's also not okay that somehow there are people (let's be real: men) who think this is a reasonable "phase" to still be in when someone is in his 20s/30s, as opposed to, say, awkward teenage years.

I remember listening to his director's commentary on Slither and appreciating what he said about not sexualizing the young girl characters/actresses. I believe him (to the degree that you can believe a stranger based on outside evidence) when he says that he was "acting" these jokes and not living them. But when the entirety of a "joke" is that you're making people uncomfortable, yeah, there might be consequences for that. Especially when you're broadcasting your jokes on a public forum and not to any sort of specific audience.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:54 am
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Takoma1 wrote:
I appreciate that he acknowledges that what he wrote was just for shock value, but I also feel like jokes about having sex with kids (which is a reasonable reading of several of his tweets) just aren't okay if there isn't a real purpose behind them aside from dredging up the painful and uncomfortable feelings people have about child abuse.

The problem being that it was clearly not his purpose to trigger painful feelings, but laughter, because this is exactly how shock humor works. So if you acknowledge that he acknowledges that this is "just" shock value, that would suggest that you already understand what his purpose is.

I'm not prepared to defend the guy, because the tweets I've seen haven't been terribly funny and also out of the apprehension that there's one coming around the corner that will prove to be truly indefensible. But the fact that you feel you need to "believe" him is part of my point about lack of context. His tweets are clearly unbelievable. Anyone who thinks he's sincerely describing the way he lives has comprehension issues. And I respect that you are not in the "specific audience" for this kind of "sick humor", and that it may also seem unbelievable that there are people who sincerely find uncomfortable humor to be a pleasurable, not painful, experience. Given the apparent fact that he is not to be taken seriously (because seriously...), you know, why bother taking him seriously?

Takoma1 wrote:
(let's be real: men)

Right. I'm sure that Sarah Siverman, Natasha Leggaro and Amy Schumer would never say something like this.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:24 am
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Since this Gunn dump is apparently based on a whataboutism to deflect from Darla Shine's recently uncovered tweets, maybe I could point out the perhaps larger problem with non-comedic tweets which routinely attack minority groups in every intention of creating fear and distress among those groups.

Or we could stick with the facetious wanker.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:32 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
The problem being that it was clearly not his purpose to trigger painful feelings, but laughter, because this is exactly how shock humor works. So if you acknowledge that he acknowledges that this is "just" shock value, that would suggest that you already understand what his purpose is.


I understand, in theory, his purpose.

I'm suggesting that it's careless to broadcast to a wide audience such humor. A shock must come from somewhere--and in the case of child abuse it's not unreasonable to assume that for some people the shock comes from knowing victims or having been a victim.

Meeting resistance or hurt when you trade in this kind of comedy is part of the package. No one is saying he shouldn't be allowed to make such jokes. But you can't have it both ways and be upset when people then don't want to be associated with you.

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Right. I'm sure that Sarah Siverman, Natasha Leggaro and Amy Schumer would never say something like this.


I'm not super familiar with Leggaro's comedy, but with both Silverman and Schumer, I don't really associate them with just one-liner jokes. They both trade in edgy humor, but I always associate it with having a broader context.

I'm mostly speaking from personal experience, but I don't know many (actually, any) women who make those kinds of jokes. Do you know many? Yet I could name probably over a dozen men of my acquaintance who said these kinds of things when they were in high school/college and still say them now as they approach middle age.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:41 am
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Takoma1 wrote:
I'm suggesting that it's careless to broadcast to a wide audience such humor. A shock must come from somewhere--and in the case of child abuse it's not unreasonable to assume that for some people the shock comes from knowing victims or having been a victim.

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that your given audience may have a percentage of abuse victims, making a comedian insensitive to this probability. I don't think that the gag reflex involved in the shock is dependant on experience. I think it's a significant distinction that the trauma of the victims is not the object of the jokes (at least of the tweets I've seen so far), rather he's mocking the extremity of the act, the abuse itself. An analogy could be a joke with a punchline like, "So I shot them all dead". Someone in the audience has a statistical likelihood of suffered trauma from or having lost someone to gun violence, but the joke is not necessarily meant to mock victims of gun violence. It's funny because it's commonly accepted that the behavior being paradied is unacceptable.

Takoma1 wrote:
No one is saying he shouldn't be allowed to make such jokes.

Disney just sent a very convincing case.

Takoma1 wrote:
But you can't have it both ways and be upset when people then don't want to be associated with you.

I'm not on Twitter, but my understanding is that you only see tweets of those you follow? I might be wrong about that.

Takoma1 wrote:
I'm not super familiar with Leggaro's comedy, but with both Silverman and Schumer, I don't really associate them with just one-liner jokes. They both trade in edgy humor, but I always associate it with having a broader context.

It's not a stylistic thing, I don't think anyone's best material is on Twitter. Rather, it's the subject matter, as Silverman and Schumer are absolutely transgressive comedians, especially in sexual taboos. Their sets are frequently more hyperbole parody than autobiography.

Takoma1 wrote:
Do you know many?

I....never really believe what women say to me. (#ironichyperbole)

But honestly, yes I do. I know and have known many women who enjoy blue humor, scatalogical and sexual humor, and inventive invective. It was a girl who told me what a "dirty sanchez" was for the first time. These girls have no inhibition in telling other men to stop grabbing their dicks when they start to get excited. I tend to like these girls. I wouldn't say that very many of them are mean people (although a couple...yeeesh), and, in general, I don't tend to socialize at all with racists and homophobes. Laughing at an inherently ridiculous statement is not an endorsement of ridiculous behavior.

Comedy is very craft-dependent so it's really impossible to define one's sense of humor based on broad topic. Not everyone who jokes about such sexual extremes as pedophilia and rape are going to succeed, and there's a very good reason why most don't try. Gunn is apparently one of them. I still don't think that his scrubbed Twitter account from 7 years ago should be enough to get him fired. You point out men who still act juvenile, but there's yet no indication that Gunn hasn't matured in those seven years.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:49 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
Disney just sent a very convincing case.


He's allowed to say what he wants. But the first amendment doesn't protect you from being fired for things you say/said.

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I'm not on Twitter, but my understanding is that you only see tweets of those you follow? I might be wrong about that.


I don't use the Twitter much either, but I do know from limited experience that there are tweets featured on their main page, people retweet other tweets, etc. There are many ways to be exposed to people you don't follow.

Quote:
I still don't think that his scrubbed Twitter account from 7 years ago should be enough to get him fired. You point out men who still act juvenile, but there's yet no indication that Gunn hasn't matured in those seven years.


I agree. I think that everything he said in his own defense made a lot of sense. Like I said, I appreciated that he was upfront about having made those jokes purely with the intent to shock and that he's changed since then. I also don't think he should be fired based on how old the tweets are and their clear (but misfired) intent. To say that his jokes actually indicate that he's a sexual predator is dumb.

But I will stand by saying that words have power. They have power to harm people who are still coping with trauma. They have power to shape the way that people treat each other. I think that it's very easy to say really hurtful things under the umbrella of "it was just a joke!!". When you have access to a platform as broad as Twitter, I think it's worth being a little extra careful about what you put out there.

And I also agree that nothing he said (from what I've seen) as as bad as a white woman repeatedly whining about not being able to use racial slurs so that she can sing along to rap songs.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:02 am
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Takoma1 wrote:
He's allowed to say what he wants. But the first amendment doesn't protect you from being fired for things you say/said.

Yes. It's just that Disney makes the "nobody" inaccurate. They pretty clearly did not allow that.

Takoma1 wrote:
I think that it's very easy to say really hurtful things under the umbrella of "it was just a joke!!".

I think the intention matters. There are many people who say awful, hateful things about people but pull the "jk", so it's important to distinguish when it is actually just a joke. I hope someone writes a joke about how control-freak directors have a knack for pedophile humor, for example.

Takoma1 wrote:
I think it's worth being a little extra careful about what you put out there.

Or the reverse, I also think that people should have a litttle more care in how they react to things they read on Twitter. If you haven't, check out the book So You Been Publicly Shamed.

Takoma1 wrote:
so that she can sing along to rap songs.

I bet that's exactly what she wants to do all day.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:31 am
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I wonder who the person was that decided to dig through 7 year old tweets? Must have had some serious time on their hands.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:22 am
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ski petrol wrote:
I wonder who the person was that decided to dig through 7 year old tweets? Must have had some serious time on their hands.


bunch of alt-right Internet personalities. so I don't know if the "PC crowd has gone to far!" crowd will be up in arms over this.

in spite of how problematic those comments are, I wouldn't have fired Gunn either as long as he explained himself/apologized. even if those jokes are really problematic.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:51 pm
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He retweeted a guy who "joked" about meeting some of his best friends in NAMBLA meetings. I don't even know how you could misconstrue that.

But hey, Victor Salva is still making movies

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Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:44 pm
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The biggest problem with coverage of humor is that people are awful at discussing jokes. It's a pretty simple process:

Step 1: Read the text of the joke, but don't get upset about it.
Step 2: Determine the subtext of the joke, then determine whether this subtext is worthy of getting upset about.

There are a lot of cases where both the text and the subtext are upsetting, and while the perpetrator was "joking", their subtext was awful. Take, for instance, comparing people of African descent in appearance to a monkey: The text of the joke may be cruel, but not as cruel as mocking a disabled reporter. The subtext of these sorts of jokes, though, is often intended to be, "You're a sub-human creature", which goes far beyond the physical appearance of a person and disregards another person's humanity. Kind of like mocking a disabled reporter. Sometimes this results in a person getting fired from their eponymous TV show, and sometimes this results in the person being elected President.

As for Gunn's controversial tweets, each one seems to have the same subtext: "You're not supposed to joke about this!" It's not very sophisticated, and it's not really improved by additional context, but I don't really think they're morally problematic. People say that this sort of joke "diminishes" the importance of the subject, but how does this make any sense when the sole subtext of the joke is, "This subject is powerful enough to be taboo"? The jokes aren't at all sophisticated, but they're also not sophisticated enough to be troubling. There's no diminishing, no dog-whistling, it's just a simple exercise in provoking the human response to incongruity, in this case between things you "can't say" and what was just said. They're not good jokes, but there's nothing morally wrong with bad jokes.

I can't really get upset with Disney, though: They have the false sheen of being "innocent" whilst raking in billions of dollars and putting out a lot of really expensive movies that need to appeal to a ridiculously wide audience to make money. It's not the place for a person with a sense of humor. Or a soul. I thought there were some fantastically innovative comedic sequences in Guardians of the Galaxy 2, so it's clear that many or most of the people involved had far too much originality and integrity to survive long with a megacorporation like Disney.

Of note: If you compare Trevor Noah's controversial tweets to Gunn's, they are far worse, and the subtext is questionable. And he was a nobody. And Comedy Central didn't fire him, because they're willing to deal with the failures associated with integrity, and a bland-factory like Disney is not.

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Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:11 pm
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The problem with the Gunn tweets is that they have a troubling focus on sex with children - that seemed to have been his primary interest, regardless of whether or not a joke hit the mark.

That was the subtext I saw.

"Write what you know," they say.

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Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:26 am
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Bandy Greensacks wrote:
The problem with the Gunn tweets is that they have a troubling focus on sex with children - that seemed to have been his primary interest, regardless of whether or not a joke hit the mark.

That was the subtext I saw.

"Write what you know," they say.


Or people are honing in on those, giving them undue emphasis over a host of other jokes about entirely unrelated subjects.

Also, if he's trying to be shocking, pedophilia is an easy target. Doesn't make it a good joke, but it doesn't make him a bad person. Although it certainly makes him a person Disney would understandably want to distance themselves from.

Then again, maybe Disney shouldn't own fucking everything.

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Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:46 am
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I'll admit that provocateurs typically go for dead people and rape over pedophilia, but I can't say that it really means anything. Disney didn't fire him because, "He made too many jokes specifically about pedophilia", they fired him because he made bad PR for them. Getting into the details is far beyond what Disney did. It's definitely a problem when big companies that want to have a clean reputation take over the media landscape, like a self-imposing Hayes Code from the media industry due to monopoly. People are rightly paranoid about governments suppressing free speech, but monopoly can be just as damaging - and far more insidious, because you can't merely "protest" that Disney hire more people that tell pedophile jokes, you just have to realize that diversity is being lost and protest the government to do something about the monopolization, which would likely take years or decades to be reinvigorated with diversity.

As for the moral question: It is not problematic to tell too many jokes about pedophilia, and I'd say it's far more problematic to be as upset over someone telling too many pedophilia jokes as you would be if they were a proven pedophile.

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Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:00 pm
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Posted late Sunday night, I believe that "BE CAUTIOUS!" qualifies as the cherry on top this past week really deserved.


Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:20 am
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One point about the Gunn thing that people should keep in mind: he will not be the last person whose deleted posts and tweets will be excavated, and we know this because the people responsible for unearthing Gunn's has claimed to have a list of "anti-Trump" celebrities that they are targeting. And because people like Mike Cernovich and his alt-ilk like to speak with their mouths open, we also know that in addition to trolling Trump critics, they also feel as if they're trolling the left-wing outrage machine. Cernovich knows that Gunn doesn't deserve to be fired for years-old deleted tweets, but in his mind this is revenge for what he considers the recent censorship of those voices, on Twitter and Youtube especially, who have engaged in pushing conspiracies like pizza-pedophiles, Sandy Hook crisis actors and the secret Muslim take over of the American government. (Cernovich has advocated each of these.) Cernovich also is aware that, given the contemporary atmosphere for social media impulsivity, he can make some of his critics pay for this suppression by fine-combing the most embarrassing nuggets from the social media's most juvenile era in order to find something which might be mildy problematic but serves the more short-term purpose of damaging one's career. "Short-term" because I believe that Gunn will make more films in the future after this disclosure settles into perspective.

And for added perspective, maybe we should look at an example of a Mike Cernovich tweet to see what kind of humor he proudly enjoys:

Image

And now let's all pretend that he actually cares about whether Gunn was really joking about molesting children. Let's pretend that Ted Cruz is truly concerned enough to open an investigation on Gunn to see if he's telling the truth. Or maybe we can stop pretending to misunderstand the game being played here.

Roseanne Barr is also one of the victims that Cernovich thinks he is rectifying with this tit-for-tat, and probably the highest profile Trump supporter, and conspiracy-pusher, to have her tweets cause likely lasting career damage. She now says, flat out, that she was really fired for voting for Donald Trump. This greivance mentality isn't unusual among Trump and his supporters. What she's implying is that her abhorrent theories about Valerie Jarrett were not actually offensive, but only a pretext for taking her down, a deliberate contortion of her words to unfairly paint her as a racist. (Unsurprisingly, in a tweet just prior to her Jarrett-ape tweet, she accused liberals of calling anyone who opposes their agenda to usurp rule of law as "racists", so this was already her worldview.) If we set aside for a moment the whole ape thing, let's instead look at the part about Jarrett's Muslim Brotherhood lineage. Barr has still been beating this horse in her latest videos (because, you know, she's been silenced), where she claimed that she only addressed Jarrett over "the Iran deal". Barr also claimed that she thought Jarrett was Iranian or "Persian" (but still "white" somehow?), and this is because right-wing media would frequently refer to the "Iranian-born Valerie Jarrett". This is true - Jarrett was born in Iran in 1956 to African-American parents who were training pediatricians under the Shah. This fact has been used by right-wing propagandists to suggest that Jarrett is a secret Muslim, the Lady Rasputin behind the secret Muslim Obamas and their agenda to install Sharia law into the American judiciary. In fact, similar to how thee old John Birch Society played six-degrees connections between American Jews and communism in the 50s-60s, the right-wing media tried to tie virtually every Muslim-adjacent member of the Obama team (the Palestinian Huma Abedin; Wasserman-Schultz's Pakistani IT guy) into this net of suspicion. This is the real reason why we made the deal with Iran and "gave" them billions. The fact that the Muslim Brotherhood is a Sunni organization never seems to have been an element of curiosity. The harder bottom-line is that, race aside, Barr is very much characterizing Jarrett as an insidiously sinister outsider, and she's basing this impression on aspects of ethnic and religious bigotry.

Barr is obviously cracked for thinking that she was fired as payback for voting for Trump. The sad irony that we have to consider is that it does appear that James Gunn was fired for criticizing Trump. It is literally the only stated reason for why his deleted tweets have been recovered.


Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:14 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
"Short-term" because I believe that Gunn will make more films in the future after this disclosure settles into perspective.


The thing is, James Gunn has handled this really, really well. His apologies have seemed sincere, he hasn't tried to make excuses or play the blame game. It helps that these are things he said 10 years ago. It helps that what he wrote was clearly (poorly executed) attempts to shock and not a reflection of sincerely held belief.

And, like I said before, from my point of view it helps that he has a track record in terms of his art. I go back again to the remarks he made on the Slither director's commentary about not sexualizing (or, specifically, putting children in a scene that would have sexual overtones) child actors/characters. Likewise he spoke with sympathy about the female character who experiences a scene that is allegorically a rape scene. I tend to be incredibly unforgiving of gross behavior, but I wouldn't hesitate to see Gunn's next film.

I do still think that there's a lesson (one I'm sure most people will be happy not to learn) about the consequences of imposing your "provocative" humor on others via a public, permanent forum. I believe that there are no topics that should be off-limits for comedians (or artists in general). But when you are putting something horrible and traumatizing at the center of your comedy there needs to be context. The point of provocative humor (especially from those who practice it by simply naming the taboo topic and expect the shock of that name-drop to do 90% of the work of the joke) is to shock and upset an audience. You can't then be surprised when a company/employer doesn't want to be associated with something shocking and upsetting.

But I do take LEAVES point from above that large companies getting to a point where they are monopolizing artistic output is a huge issue, because there should always be space for those oddball studios who will take a chance on someone who isn't family friendly.


Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:47 am
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It looks like Cernovich has more recently targeted Michael Ian Black, Dan Harmon and Patton Oswalt, in the latter case deliberately using a deceptive edit of a tweet to paint him as a pedophile.

Luckily, these don't seem to have caught traction, and hopefully this means that more people are wising up to who Cernovich is and why he's not credible.


Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:59 am
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What is he hiding

and I hate hate hate hate hate feeling like I'm paranoid.


Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:22 am
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
I hate hate hate hate hate feeling like I'm paranoid.

No. You hate how much you secretly love feeling like you're paranoid.


Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:02 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
No. You hate how much you secretly love feeling like you're paranoid.
Same thing!


Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:11 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
No. You hate how much you secretly love feeling like you're paranoid.


I ain't ready to embrace the madness yet. not before I find out how wrong I am.


Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:55 pm
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
not before I find out how wrong I am.

But you're not wrong. You're responding to Trump's increasing paranoia. Because he's guilty as a shit-eating dog.


Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:09 pm
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I do take some comfort knowing that I am not, and will hopefully never be, Donald Trump. and that if I were, I would have the good sense not to run for president.


Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:24 pm
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Jinnistan wrote:
But you're not wrong. You're responding to Trump's increasing paranoia. Because he's guilty as a shit-eating dog.


and yeah, he's either getting more cocky or more jittery.


Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:32 pm
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:

There's a part of me that cannot wait until the day when we can look at a mash-up montage of Trump and Guiliani and the entire revue of disingenuous defenders and laugh and laugh at their desperately sweaty ineptitude. But for now, I'm still too terrified that desperately sweaty dishonesty is exactly what Americans want right now, and that's just exhaustingly sad.

"No collusion. Which isn't even a crime if I did it, but I didn't. You did. You all did. Maybe I should have. It's not like it's a crime. And even if it was, I can pardon myself whenever I want. Which I could do if I were to do that thing which isn't even illegal that I didn't even do. And neither did Putin. A lot of people out there doing things. Not me. I thought Russia was a salad dressing, in all honesty. Most people don't know this but it's actually a very large country, and we have to be nice to them. Or else!"


Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:36 am
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"Why have so many young Americans become disillusioned with capitalism (in its current form)?" here's at least one answer.

(not to mention a few points of origin of the Trump phenomenon. the section with Steve Bannon reminds me how similar Trump supporters and Bernie supporters can sound right up until you hit certain cultural walls)


Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:57 pm
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Laura Ingraham has explicitly claimed that "Americans" no longer love America because it's less white than it used to be.

Now we get to enjoy another round of racist conservatives acting shocked and appalled at the notion that their concerns over "massive demographic changes" could possibly be interpreted as white supremacy. "Hey, I didn't say 'niggers', did I?" - Tomorrow's Laura Ingraham quote.


Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:08 pm
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Jinnistan wrote:
Laura Ingraham has explicitly claimed that "Americans" no longer love America because it's less white than it used to be.


yeah, these guys are not taking Ocasio-Cortez too well. and she's not even in Congress yet!

I'm usually kind of numb to these kinds of comments about "real" Americans but I thought it was kinda fucked up that she also slighted legal immigration for causing these changes. like, is this a new shift in the Overton window?


Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:58 pm
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
I'm usually kind of numb to these kinds of comments about "real" Americans but I thought it was kinda fucked up that she also slighted legal immigration for causing these changes. like, is this a new shift in the Overton window?

Speaking of numb, her response has been predictable. "Kinda fucked" indeed that she is just aghast at the germ of the suggestion that "massive demographic changes" could possibly be in reference to race or ethnicity. She's obviously talking about the influx of Finnish lesbians and blind Albanian strip-mall vape franchisees. What are we now, Belize? Not in my melting pot!


Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:26 am
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by God, the window is moving again


Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:03 pm
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They're about 5 seconds away from suggesting Trump suspend the Constitution so he can crack some skulls.


Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:40 am
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I've been very hesitant about investing any concern into Omarosa. I'm just enjoying the show of the snake biting the scorpion.

However, if we consider yesterday's revelation of her tape of a conference call where Trump aides are discussing how to spin the apparently inevitable release of a recording of Trump saying the n-word, which, on its face, is not exactly far-fetched (one aide says matter-of-factly "He said it. He is embarrassed."), then we should also all be prepared about what we are going to do, sooner than later, I believe, when such a tape, or at least a confirmation of its existence, is released, and how we will pretend to manage the weight of the massive *shrug* with which Republicans will dismiss it. The final critical taboo of American politics, not just bald-faced racism but the actual utterance of the most toxic of racist terms, will be rendered blithely, just as easily as FOX News renders their own barely-concealed racism. Are we prepared as a country to deal with the contemporary political fact that explicit racism is an acceptable policy platform for one of the two major political parties? Well, get ready, because this reality is here. And Rand Paul has endorsed Corey Stewart for the Senate - the same guy who listed "secession" as among his top points of pride in being a Virginian. The shame is gone, perhaps forever.


Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:49 am
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Better a racist than someone who uses a private email server.

Wait, they do that, too? What is the world coming to?

I thought that the only thing that could bring Trump down was if he acted weak when firing Omarosa, but after hearing the recording of him pretending to not know that she was being fired and not seeing his popularity dip completely I'm just not sure how to process the world anymore. Maybe if he sent her a farewell email on a private email server?

The "Republican base" is a bunch of people with no integrity and no respect for the necessity of integrity, so the party may as well be dead. I'm glad that people are embarrassed to be known as a Trump voter, but people should be equally embarrassed to be a Republican, full stop.

_________________
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Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:09 am
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I'm sort of loathe to even acknowledge that this is a major news story.

if there is audio of Trump using racial slurs and this becomes The Thing That Finally Brings Trump Down (permanent loss of public support, big Republican midterm loss, Congress finally starts holding Trump accountable), however unlikely that is, all that proves is that people will support any number of bigoted discriminatory policies so as long as public officials refrain from using a few specific words.

if there is audio and nothing changes, just like it has for all the other gazillion things, then I guess nothing has changed. and Trump's critics should stop hoping that one of his own mistakes will bring him down because there are just too many people willing to apologize for him.


Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:42 pm
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
if there is audio of Trump using racial slurs and this becomes The Thing That Finally Brings Trump Down (permanent loss of public support, big Republican midterm loss, Congress finally starts holding Trump accountable), however unlikely that is, all that proves is that people will support any number of bigoted discriminatory policies so as long as public officials refrain from using a few specific words.

The pettiness of it certainly adds a dimension, but it doesn't make it less remarkable that Republicans (those left in the party*) are about to start pissing on one of the few remaining third rails in American politics. The erosion in civic discourse over the past few years on race has all been leading up to this moment. Thanks Obama!

(*I've seen some interesting sources that the reason why we're seeing such record support for Trump within his own party is due to the fact that fewer and fewer Republicans are willing to identify as Republican in public polling.)

As for "thing that finally brings down Trump", I think I'll keep (impatiently) waiting for Mueller. Trump just made another admission to obstruction last night to the WSJ, when he helpfully explained that revoking Brennon's security clearance was in retaliation for his role in leading the fake witch hoax hunt. (As head of the CIA, it's not clear exactly what role Brennon could have possibly had in Trump's FBI investigation.) I say let him bury himself in the "totally legal; I wasn't even there" hole he's digging.


Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:39 am
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LEAVES wrote:
Better a racist than someone who uses a private email server.

Wait, they do that, too? What is the world coming to?

Trump is hardly a paragon of transparency. He's been illegally shredding government documents, which is only slightly less annoying than this story, out of all of the White House stories, being roundly ignored by the news. "Trump can't help himself", as if that makes any of it less disturbing.

It might be obvious, but I voted for Hillary Clinton. I was also deeply annoyed by her supporters dismissive defense of her email server, because, as someone who values transparency and accountability, it's crystal clear that Clinton used her private server as a way to circumvent rules regarding archiving government documents and avoiding FOIA requests from the public. She could have used a private server and also regularly forwarded these communications back to a .gov server, which she never did, just like how she neglected to divulge to anyone the existence of her private server (including, apparently, Obama). It seems reasonable to assume that had she not gotten caught, by journalists doing their jobs, that she still would not have divulged its existence today.

Anyway, it's a moot point by now, and barely comparable to Trump's aversion to scrutiny. It was still a self-inflicted liability that she could have managed a lot better.


Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:59 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
(*I've seen some interesting sources that the reason why we're seeing such record support for Trump within his own party is due to the fact that fewer and fewer Republicans are willing to identify as Republican in public polling.)


dang it, this is why I worry so much about what kinds of pushback will end up being counterproductive. or what will give the "both sides!" Trump critic-critics enough room to call me an ideologue. I couldn't even attend a march without feeling depressed for weeks after.

99% of the time I am a feckless lib and I know it.


Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:40 pm
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Image

It's probably just me, but I've gotten fond of watching the daily shots of Manafort during his trial. They look almost like some of the lazier scotch ads that you would find in Playboy in the 80s.

Smooth and smokey, a single-malt Manafort lunch is just the right answer for a morning full of foreclosures and depositions. Whatever your line of scheme, greet the whistle with a jaunty "Later, gents. It's Manafort Time."


Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:41 am
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