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 A Corrierino Awareness Thread 
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:

The big money Republicans don't really make sense to me on this. They know the score. Big oil companies knew about this and suppressed it in the 1970s (Talk about crimes against humanity! If we wind up in a six-degree world, the Nazis will have nothing on these guys.). You have to wonder what their end game is on this, because it is not in the self-interest of life as we know it to continue in the direction of burning fossil fuels. Joe Six-Pack who gets all his news from his Facebook feed and 4Chan can be explained pretty easily as being misled and willfully ignorant. At the very least, I can wrap my head around that. What I can't wrap my head around is being part of the millionaire/billionaire set with all the information right in front of you and sticking with denial. Even if you're in first class on the Titanic, the ship is still sinking. Short-sighted self-interest? I have a hard time believing that they're that clueless. Do they have some Malthusian end-game of geo-politics? Sounds too much like a conspiracy theory. Trapped in a death-spiral? This, sadly makes the most sense. You can be a heroin junkie and know that it is killing you, but still recognize that you're gonna need your next fix. Even so, it is baffling that we are still living in two worlds relative to the basic questions of fact about global warming.


maybe they think that they can ride out any worst case scenario so it's not a big deal either way and why bother forfeiting any comfort in the short-term.

I have seen plenty of appeals for action by using the national security angle, the economic angle, health risk angle, rise in migrant/refugee angle; I know that saying stuff like "it's the right thing to do!" or "think of the polar bears!" aren't effective. I still sometimes wonder if the fact that so many solutions are anathema to the "no government spending/free market/taxation is theft/anti-globalism" stuff that there becomes the part where you lose people. I know I get waaaay too hung up on not looking like a communist/eco-freak/partisan zealot because I don't know what solutions will be acceptable to that half of the country (although I've been finding out that the solutions that are acceptable may be too meager and that is a problem).


Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:45 pm
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I heard one popular commentator (who shall remain nameless) give his argument that

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Let's say for the sake of argument that all of the water levels around the world rise by, let's say, five feet over the next 100 years. Say 10 feet over the next 100 years. And it puts all of the low-lying areas on the coast underwater. Let's say all of that happens. You think people aren't just going to sell their homes and move?


and it made me angry to think that even after the 2008 financial crisis some of us still have yet to learn any lessons about risk transfer. or maybe they think this time will be different. (it's not like coastal homes aren't still being purchased)

I dunno if that was worth posting. maybe I'm just letting off some steam


Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:50 pm
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
and it made me angry to think that even after the 2008 financial crisis some of us still have yet to learn any lessons about risk transfer. or maybe they think this time will be different. (it's not like coastal homes aren't still being purchased)


2008 is a prime example. The people who broke the system were the ones who were bailed out? Check. Complete with huge Christmas bonuses to CEOs from bailout money (you know, for doing such a good job). Massive transfer of wealth from Main Street to Wall Street? Check. Refusal of Federal Reserve to tell congress which European banks got bail out money? Check. Broken laws fixed to prevent this from happening again? Nope. Return to casino-style game play (the house always wins and they're playing with our money) that led to the last crash? Check. Why the fuck would I trust these assholes to save the planet with a carbon tax scheme? It's not a direct mandate to lower emissions. Rather, it is a tax scheme (for everyone, not just the big factories pumping smoke into the air and chemicals into rivers) designed to create new economy or sub-economy and one in which those with financial privilege can buy their way into more pollution.


Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:57 am
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
maybe they think that they can ride out any worst case scenario so it's not a big deal either way and why bother forfeiting any comfort in the short-term.

Nah, these rich pedos are going to Mars with Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and Richard Branson. I'm sure they'll still try to collect Earth-rent though, the scabby scrotes.

In fact, I think my favorite aspect of the recent Neil DeGrasse Tyson accusations is that they've given him a week to shut the fuck up about how awesome Elon Musk is.


Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:10 pm
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some are actively preparing for the future though

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-for-the-super-rich


Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:42 pm
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:


I think it was Zizek who remarked that we are still stuck on the 90's end-of-history-ism that we cannot imagine the end of capitalism and can only suppose that the zombie apocalypse follows. Mark Blyth's warning to the rich is that
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"The Hamptons is not a defensible position. It's a low-lying beach. Eventually people will come for you"

and I guess some of them agree, which is why we see stories about rich people buying land in New Zealand, buying up islands to escape to, and converting old missile silos into bunkers, etc. They're still missing the point of Blyth's advice (e.g., fix the economy, play by your own rules, distribute the wealth so that everyone can play the game).*

And to that we can add, take real steps to fix the climate. Not slogans, not little schemes, not virtue signaling. Your little "green" cup from Starbucks and your "Energy Star" fridge is nowhere near enough and we shouldn't be blaming consumers anyway.

*And the rich are still going to be screwed in the zombie apocalypse. The poor will blame the rich and seek them out in their strongholds as juicy targets for revenge and resources. The fortress mentality is a bad one. No one wants to be stuck in the tiny refinery surrounded by Humongous and his biker gang. Being besieged is a nightmare marathon. Castles were not places where elites simply "holed up" in the past, but they were kind of like air craft carriers--a means of projecting power in a region via the garrisons that could be deployed from and which were coordinated in systems of fortresses and garrisons. The literary image of the fortress as "Helm's Deep" is a distortion of the rational purpose of fortresses, which is not simply "a great place to be trapped when it hits the fan." On the other hand, the "bug out" fantasy (including all those poor people with rifles who think that they will live like John Rambo in the woods) is (like not conceiving of what could follow capitalism) is also a failure of imagination. The people who survive crises will be those who form communities, share resources, and take advantage of mobility. That is, it will be those people who are engaged with other people and institutions for mutually productive purposes who will be best off. But why not be productive and engaged now? That is, take Blyth's advice.


Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:18 am
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:
The people who survive crises will be those who form communities, share resources, and take advantage of mobility. That is, it will be those people who are engaged with other people and institutions for mutually productive purposes who will be best off. But why not be productive and engaged now? That is, take Blyth's advice.

It's like you've never seen an episode of Survivor. Those are the true end of capitalism values instilled in an entire generation.


Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:39 am
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:
I am still strongly opposed to a carbon tax as too little too late, hurting the poor, and selling off pollution like indulgences. I don't even see it as a stepping stone. We need mandated carbon limits--FULL STOP--do not pass go, do not purchase carbon credits to keep doing business as usual. We need to go full Tesla on our future. We're past the point of being able to manage the situation through moderation and the usually hand-wavy policies. Incentivize purchasing items locally to cut down on the amount of needless shipping we see--does it make sense to you that we raise chickens in the U.S., have them processed in China, and then send them back to the U.S.?--would be great. For example, reverse the polarity of sales tax. Put a sales tax on all Amazon purchases (which sadly is pretty much the same thing as saying "tax all internet sales" which is what I am really saying) and remove all sales taxes from locally produced and sold goods. Build some new nuclear plants. Develop solar power which is getting better all the time. Invest in infrastructure. The most efficient way, by far, to move stuff around on land is by rail. Build more rails and trains and take trucks off the road (truckers are going to lose their jobs to automation anyway).

Melvin Butterworth wrote:
2008 is a prime example. The people who broke the system were the ones who were bailed out? Check. Complete with huge Christmas bonuses to CEOs from bailout money (you know, for doing such a good job). Massive transfer of wealth from Main Street to Wall Street? Check. Refusal of Federal Reserve to tell congress which European banks got bail out money? Check. Broken laws fixed to prevent this from happening again? Nope. Return to casino-style game play (the house always wins and they're playing with our money) that led to the last crash? Check. Why the fuck would I trust these assholes to save the planet with a carbon tax scheme? It's not a direct mandate to lower emissions. Rather, it is a tax scheme (for everyone, not just the big factories pumping smoke into the air and chemicals into rivers) designed to create new economy or sub-economy and one in which those with financial privilege can buy their way into more pollution.

Why would you trust them to competently install a carbon limits scheme or any of the other tax schemes you propose? And, oh yeah, why do you keep ignoring DaMU's point about the dividend? If tax-and-dividend is too small, how is a more far-ranging government policy not going to have more far-ranging impacts on the economy? Do you expect a carbon limit scheme not to raise energy prices? That's the thing about an externality. If you don't want it to be an externality anymore, then you have to price it into the system, and it's a fairytale to imagine that fossil fuel industries will shoulder this alone. The government can come in and absorb some of the pain with deficit-spending to try to ease the pain for lower-income people (again, with things like dividends or whatever it turns out to be), but ultimately our society will have to pay the short-term cost to offset a long-term disaster. The government veered into moral hazard during the financial crisis? Obviously. They also kept the world economy from completely tanking. They could've done nothing and then we'd be complaining about their wholesale negligence. They could've played a heavier hand, nationalizing the banks, breaking them up and jailing CEOs (yum), but obviously this wouldn't have been the choice of someone with a scattershot skepticism of government competence. And that's the thing with disasters. The collective response to them necessarily involves trying to suss out the bad from the worse answer based on limited information, and no matter what you do, it's gonna get messy. You can adopt Republican rhetoric of "why should I trust these assholes?" and dismissing taxes as "criminalizing being alive and participating in the economy" and then mix this in with a dash of Occupy fist-shaking, but we'll still be left having to take the kind of centralized, broad-based action that government is uniquely positioned to do.


Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:58 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
It's like you've never seen an episode of Survivor. Those are the true end of capitalism values instilled in an entire generation.


Survivor is predicated on "dog eat dog" cooperation which is the basis for unstable coalitions (Survivor is, by design, a collapsing Jenga tower of cooperation), but not thriving communities. Those who survive tough times are those who can really come together and form communities. Those who operate under a Kantian "formulation of humanity" have much more robust relationships than those who don't. I don't see this as a distinctly "capitalist" consideration, unless we're going all the way back to Adam Smith's formulation of small-producers in a market bounded by Christian values to keep it from going on-tilt. But even having a "Survivor" mind-set is healthier than the idea of bugging-in to your private castle or bugging-out to your cabin the woods (me-against-the-world). For those who can only operate in terms of rational self-interest, Blyth's advice is worth considering. It's on all of our interests to fix the economy and the environment.


Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:43 am
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Melvin Butterworth wrote:

Survivor is predicated on "dog eat dog" cooperation which is the basis for unstable coalitions (Survivor is, by design, a collapsing Jenga tower of cooperation), but not thriving communities. Those who survive tough times are those who can really come together and form communities. Those who operate under a Kantian "formulation of humanity" have much more robust relationships than those who don't. I don't see this as a distinctly "capitalist" consideration, unless we're going all the way back to Adam Smith's formulation of small-producers in a market bounded by Christian values to keep it from going on-tilt. But even having a "Survivor" mind-set is healthier than the idea of bugging-in to your private castle or bugging-out to your cabin the woods (me-against-the-world). For those who can only operate in terms of rational self-interest, Blyth's advice is worth considering. It's on all of our interests to fix the economy and the environment.

Survivor is about the last man standing, proverbially speaking. It is literally "me against the world" where all relationships are transactional and duplicitous. When I saw Survivor for the first (only) time, this was perfctly clear to me. So much so, that I assumed there was a twist somewhere. Otherwise, the show seems like a comic satire written by a Maoist about the extremes of cannibalistic capitalism (Who's "voted off" anyway? And waste that protein?!? We all understand the "implication" here.) But no, sadly, it turns out that satire is dead, and Survivor actually does represent the celebrated American values of Randian entitlement and opportunism. That shit is even still on the air. People are actually that stupid (or cruel, or both).


Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:28 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
Survivor is about the last man standing, proverbially speaking. It is literally "me against the world" where all relationships are transactional and duplicitous. When I saw Survivor for the first (only) time, this was perfctly clear to me. So much so, that I assumed there was a twist somewhere. Otherwise, the show seems like a comic satire written by a Maoist about the extremes of cannibalistic capitalism (Who's "voted off" anyway? And waste that protein?!? We all understand the "implication" here.) But no, sadly, it turns out that satire is dead, and Survivor actually does represent the celebrated American values of Randian entitlement and opportunism. That shit is even still on the air. People are actually that stupid (or cruel, or both).


Janson, I don't think you're wrong here, so I am not quite sure where we disagree or if you're even noting a disagreement (e.g., perhaps accusing me of just stating the obvious?).


Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:20 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
That shit is even still on the air.


You say this like it would be the decent cultural thing that I had been deprived of all these many years of consistent Wednesday night, prime time entertainment.

You can't expect terrible movies to get me by every night, dammit.


Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:28 am
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crumbsroom wrote:
You can't expect terrible movies to get me by every night, dammit.

"Why eat dog shit when I can masturbate with razor blades"?


Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:17 pm
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What a week, folks.

For those (few) paying attention, the deceptively meager revelations from the court filings on Flynn, Manafort and Cohen have offered an ample amount of promising dish. Maybe not exactly "collusion" yet but maybe something with a likewise..."synergy"? Is that the word?

But in a world of perfect press coverage that is capable of eating through the fast and sloppy spew of Toxic Trump Events, there would be but one quote this past week that should qualify to serve as the Trump Administration epitaph: "Yeah, but I won't be here."

An easy credibility test for Republicans and conservatives would be to ask them if they're familiar with the above story, show it to them, and count the coughs.


Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:28 pm
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my sense of proportion is too fucked up to know how much these things matter. but then I've said that before, many, many times. [deep sigh]


Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:59 pm
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