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 Maiden's Voyage 
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Sorry it took me so long, EG! I've had a lot going on lately, for some reason.

Eminence Grise wrote:
Yes, the glass, of course, cannot be logically explained, which I love. It reminded me so much of the beautiful shimmering light in Veronique.
You've really got me itching to rewatch that one!

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What do you mean they are "true"? Can you expand on that?
I just meant she's not delusional, and ghosts are "real" in the film. (So, yeah, to your next question, I guess I'm rejecting Assayas's interpretation.)

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She does clearly have this knowledge, but to me it doesn't come off as if she would. I mean, I wouldn't expect it. And, to me, it's not clear that she's either rejecting it, or repressing it. Desires are often repressed and she clearly has these forbidden desires that are trying to come to the fore. They do come to the fore throughout the film. Or, perhaps her desire is just to break the rules?
Yeah, the latter is what I thought. The need to break the rules also explains her insane agreement to do what he tells her. I doubt she's always wanted to jump into a car with a stranger (so to speak). But, who knows? I'm probably projecting pretty hard, here. :)

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Tue May 22, 2018 9:31 am
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You've really got me itching to rewatch that one!

Do it! For me, it's always due for a rewatch :D

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I just meant she's not delusional, and ghosts are "real" in the film. (So, yeah, to your next question, I guess I'm rejecting Assayas's interpretation.)

I love that you're rejecting his interpretation. I'm a big fan of the intentional fallacy :up: :D

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Yeah, I the latter is what I thought. The need to break the rules also explains her insane agreement to do what he tells her. I doubt she's always wanted to jump into a car with a stranger (so to speak). But, who knows? I'm probably projecting pretty hard, here. :)

Project away! I think it's pretty open to discussion.


Tue May 22, 2018 9:42 am
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Rock wrote:
I want to rewatch the movie to see if Assayas does anything in particular visually, but the key thing for me was how he channeled us through her perspective and emotions in presenting the videos and especially the texts.
Yeah, and I think Stewart should get credit, too. I remember when she's watching a video on her phone and something interrupts, her moment of reorientation as she looks around was perfect. Such a familiar feeling!

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To go on a tangent, my viewings of Blackhat, Snowden and The Card Player over the last few months lead me to believe that modern technology can be hard to present engagingly, but the tools to do so are fairly simple. Blackhat I think does it particularly effectively just using some well selected closeups so we can process the information in a way that mimics the knowledge of the characters, while the other films lean heavily on reaction shots but don't know how to stress the information actually on screen. I'd need to see Personal Shopper again to get into specifics, but while I remember the direction not being as obvious as Mann's in this respect, I think it adheres to the same principles.
Of those, I've only seen Blackhat, but I agree it did it well, though not as subtly as Personal Shopper does.


crumbsroom wrote:
Another movie that needs more love.
It really does! Fassbinder is soooo good. :heart:

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Tue May 22, 2018 9:50 am
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Eminence Grise wrote:
Do it! For me, it's always due for a rewatch :D
Soon.

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Tue May 22, 2018 9:51 am
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Post Maiden's Voyage: Boris Godounov

Being something of a completist, it's always bothered me that I hadn't seen Zulawski's Boris Godounov, so I decided to remedy that over the weekend. I went in knowing nothing about the opera or the history. It seems to be a very Russian tragedy, though, jumping right to the guilt and madness, like sleepwalking Lady Macbeth in the first act. It's a perfect subject for Zulawski, with multiple murders, extreme grief, crazed comic relief, betrayals, and angst, angst, angst. And we're always in the thick of it, almost too close to see, reminding me of German's Hard to Be a God. I enjoyed the music, too, but the performances and staging nearly overwhelm it – so much visual energy, huge crowds, color! And those murals! Every wall of the palace is painted with huge icon-like figures, dwarfing the petty human problems below. The camera starts on stage but soon escapes, winding down corridors, through doors, and into forests; encompassing film crew and audience; and spanning at least three different time periods. It's a lot to absorb. It's beautiful. In other words, Zulawski!

Image Image
Image Image
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For more Zulawski, go here.

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Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:31 am
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No Zulawski fans around here? Or is it opera that turns you off?

Speaking of Zulawski, I’m thinking I should give L’amour braque another try since I’ve now read (and loved) The Idiot. Also, words about Cosmos are on their way, once I finish my rewatch.

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Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:53 am
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Shieldmaiden wrote:
No Zulawski fans around here? Or is it opera that turns you off?


Yes I love Zulawski but I don't see any fans or talk around here that often except your recent review. I still haven't seen that film or his last one. My favorite one is The Third Part of the Night but it's been a very long time since I've seen it. I should probably give Cosmos a go.


Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:34 am
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I just went to IMDb and looked to be sure, but I didn't think I have ever seen any Zulawski films.

My recollection was correct. But I think I'll try to start off with Boris Godounov because it sounds as weird as can be, and I often favor such movies!

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What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:44 am
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YouTookMyName wrote:
it sounds as weird as can be
Truth in advertising! Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. :)

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Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:27 pm
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Shieldmaiden wrote:
No Zulawski fans around here?.

He made Possession (1981), right? I love that movie. I should watch some of his other movies.


Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:53 pm
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Slentert wrote:
He made Possession (1981), right? I love that movie. I should watch some of his other movies.
He did! I love that one too, but My Nights Are More Beautiful Than Your Days and On the Silver Globe are his masterpieces, in my opinion.


Back to Boris Godounov for a minute. I found a 1954 version on Y0uTube for comparison purposes. I'm primarily interested in the musical differences, which seem mostly tonal (varied levels of reverence and pathos and dark comedy), though different things are cut for time considerations. Also, it makes clear the staging and casting weirdness is all Zulawski (of course).

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Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:41 am
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Zulawski is one of my favourites. Possession, The Devils, Most Important Thing: Love and L'Amour Braque are particular obsessions of mine. And everything else I've seen, with the exception of Cosmos, I would consider myself a fan of.

Boris Godunov is one of the few I'm not familiar with though. But I'm a completest with this guy, so I plan on getting to it at some point.


Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:56 am
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I've only seen four Zulawskis and loved three of them: Possession, L'Amour Braque and Diabel. However, My Nights Are More Beautiful Than Your Days left me completely cold, as I found his shouty style devolved into shrillness in this one whereas it served the dramatic aims of the other films more precisely. Shieldmaiden, do you mind going to bat for this one?

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Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:19 pm
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crumbsroom wrote:
Zulawski is one of my favourites. Possession, The Devils, Most Important Thing: Love and L'Amour Braque are particular obsessions of mine. And everything else I've seen, with the exception of Cosmos, I would consider myself a fan of.
Yeah, Cosmos is hard to love. No mention of On the Silver Globe?

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Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:16 pm
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Rock wrote:
Shieldmaiden, do you mind going to bat for this one?
Gladly! I love defending my favorite movies. :)

First of all, the "shouty style" is his style. People in his films feel everything intensely. So it doesn’t matter if it's a bitter divorce and a monster (in Possession) or a love story (in My Nights). We have to simply accept that from him. The first time I watched My Nights, I was kind of confused, though. The way they acted (and the music) only seemed to make sense if they'd known each other before, had long history behind them. The second time I stopped worrying and saw what he saw – that their feelings were as strong as if they'd had a long relationship. It's an intensifier like the big acting style. And the music runs ahead of them; only at the very end do they catch up to its swelling romantic theme.

Second, this is Zulawski's idea of a screwball comedy. I know that sounds weird, with the jarring acting and the tragic action. You need to look at it upside-down – move the tragedy to the background, bring the love antics forward. He carries her gum across France, acts silly in the restaurant, skulks around the hotel lobby in a blanket, takes a bath with his clothes on. He's a Cary Grant-esque clown.

Third, I love the language theme. As a writer, I find the idea of losing language (to a tumor, to dementia) terrifying. So the scene on the side of the road (with the rabbit) as he tries to remember the words for his memories is ridiculously poignant for me. I love the language games of their sex scene. And as mad-cap as the physical humor is, the words are always funnier. ("You're wet." "I swam here.") I'll always regret that I can't get the full impact of the puns and jokes in French.

Does that help?

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Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:18 pm
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Shieldmaiden wrote:
Yeah, Cosmos is hard to love.

That was my feeling. Zulawski flirts with silliness a lot, but trying for actual comedy feels even more uncomfortable than one of Heinrich's spasms in Possessed.

Shieldmaiden wrote:
No mention of On the Silver Globe?

I wouldn't call it "masterpiece" material, maybe masterpiece potential, but the sad fact is that it will never be satisfactorially finished. A heroic effort, and what's there is amazing, but his patchwork "scenes from a mall" filling only accentuates what the existing film is sorely lacking.


Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:50 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
I wouldn't call it "masterpiece" material, maybe masterpiece potential, but the sad fact is that it will never be satisfactorially finished. A heroic effort, and what's there is amazing, but his patchwork "scenes from a mall" filling only accentuates what the existing film is sorely lacking.
I thought it made it the whole thing feel more like found footage, parts damaged or lost in transit. Also that feeling of loss, of never being able to see the whole thing, just adds to the overall mood of melancholy and disaster I got from the pieces we do have. It's sort of an act of will to see it that way, but I'm stubborn. :)

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Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:51 am
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Shieldmaiden wrote:
Also that feeling of loss, of never being able to see the whole thing, just adds to the overall mood of melancholy and disaster I got from the pieces we do have.

This is interesting in light of the
unknown omniscient telepathic powers of the Szerns
which proves so intoxicating.


Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:17 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
unknown omniscient telepathic powers of the Szerns
Ha, good point.

Szerns are up there with Reavers for me, as the most terrifying villains in film.

Oh, and I've bumped up a couple of the Roeg films you mentioned in the other thread. :)

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Isle of Dogs ▪ Eika Katappa ▪ The Devils ▪ Spider Baby or the Maddest Story Ever Told ▪ Sisters, or the Balance of Happiness ▪ The Thing ▪ Godounov (1989) ▪ Incredibles 2 ▪ Young Frankenstein ▪ The Lair of the White Worm ▪ The Blob

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Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:25 am
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Shieldmaiden wrote:
Oh, and I've bumped up a couple of the Roeg films you mentioned in the other thread. :)

I hope they work out for you. He's a director with a very signature style that doesn't always work for people, so at least I hope you can find some time to point out exactly how wrong I am and hopefully how this enhances your veiwing of truly decent and kind filmmakers who are not engaging in his style of perverse attrition. :up:


Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:53 am
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Taare Zameen Par (2007 - English title Like Stars on Earth) was what August Rush would have been if it had been better-written.

Most of the sentimental moments that got dust in my eyes were legitimate and caused by feel-good emotions. It didn't ply as direct a course as I recall for August Rush, instead wandering a bit here and there into more interesting story points than would probably have been the case with an American or British director. Nor did it seem to be 2 h 45 m long!

As with many Bollywood films it has musical numbers, but it doesn't come across as a musical. Anyone else here see it?

_________________
"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread. Catalog Rounds 1-3
Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)
Images disappeared 14 Feb 2018 -- forever.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

The Future Unreels will also lose all its images on the same day. But just think about how many images Jedi has on Photobucket, and the other posters here.


Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:30 am
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I tried watching that at one point but bailed less than halfway in. The exact point I do not recall, but it would have been after Aamir Khan showed up and started being obnoxiously zany. As such I have a memory of mild distaste but not enough clarity to actually discuss the movie.

Gort, I am sorry I cannot discuss that movie with you.

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Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:46 am
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Gort wrote:
Taare Zameen Par (2007 - English title Like Stars on Earth) was what August Rush would have been if it had been better-written.
Hmm. Is this a recommendation? Rock's "mild distaste" makes me cautious. My Bollywood viewing has been mainly Shah Rukh Khan-focused. And it's my experience that even SRK can't save obnoxious zaniness. Also, I've never seen August Rush, but I haaated her Disco Pigs.


Jinnistan wrote:
...at least I hope you can find some time to point out exactly how wrong I am...
Haha, I'll try. (If I don't like them, that is.)

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Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:28 pm
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What Bollywood have you seen?

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Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:29 pm
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I'm not always sure what "Bollywood" entails, but my favorites so far

Awaara
Om Shanti Om
Dilwale Dullhania Le Jayenge
Eega
Maqbool
Barsaat
Veer-Zaara
Dear Zindagi
Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi
Jab We Met
Highway

Obviously, I'm still a neophyte!

_________________
Isle of Dogs ▪ Eika Katappa ▪ The Devils ▪ Spider Baby or the Maddest Story Ever Told ▪ Sisters, or the Balance of Happiness ▪ The Thing ▪ Godounov (1989) ▪ Incredibles 2 ▪ Young Frankenstein ▪ The Lair of the White Worm ▪ The Blob

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Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:38 pm
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Shieldmaiden wrote:
Hmm. Is this a recommendation? Rock's "mild distaste" makes me cautious. My Bollywood viewing has been mainly Shah Rukh Khan-focused. And it's my experience that even SRK can't save obnoxious zaniness. Also, I've never seen August Rush, but I haaated her Disco Pigs.

Not a rec.

Merely a note. I think you should probably avoid both the films I mentioned.

I'm not surprised that someone felt "mild distaste" when watching the Aamir Khan film. But apparently any degree of "distaste" is a signal to avoid at all costs. Ha ha! And this film was the Indian entry to the 2009 Oscars Foreign Film competition. So that's a strike against it, there.

Nah, I don't recommend films. Few find my taste in films to their liking around these parts. Another reason why I don't understand the viewership of the Rematch thread. :-/

_________________
"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread. Catalog Rounds 1-3
Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)
Images disappeared 14 Feb 2018 -- forever.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

The Future Unreels will also lose all its images on the same day. But just think about how many images Jedi has on Photobucket, and the other posters here.


Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:01 am
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Gort wrote:
I'm not surprised that someone felt "mild distaste" when watching the Aamir Khan film. But apparently any degree of "distaste" is a signal to avoid at all costs. Ha ha! And this film was the Indian entry to the 2009 Oscars Foreign Film competition. So that's a strike against it, there.
Aw, Gort, I'm sorry. Of course I always watch recommendations in this thread. I just really wasn't sure from your wording whether you were recommending it to me. I guess I was being obtuse. I will watch even the zaniest of Bollywood for you! <3

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Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:04 pm
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Shieldmaiden wrote:
I'm not always sure what "Bollywood" entails, but my favorites so far

Awaara
Om Shanti Om
Dilwale Dullhania Le Jayenge
Eega
Maqbool
Barsaat
Veer-Zaara
Dear Zindagi
Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi
Jab We Met
Highway

Obviously, I'm still a neophyte!

Haha, that is indeed SRK-heavy. If you liked the ones you've seen with him, I'll go ahead and recommend Kuch Kuch Hota Hai, the Don movies, Duplicate and My Name is Khan. The first is one of his more "essential" movies, lightweight and melodramatic in the grand scheme of things but fairly entertaining for what it is. The Don movies let him savour a villainous role, while Duplicate allows him to parody the original Don (and thereby pre-emptively parody his Don remake). My Name is Khan would be like if someone made a sequel to Rain Man but made it about 9/11, which sounds terrible and it is super schmaltzy and manipulative, but somehow ends up working much better than it should.

In terms of more general recs, my Bollywood knowledge is pretty incomplete as I'd watched a lot growing up and only started getting back into it a few years ago so I have a lot of gaps in terms of "major" films, but can probably give you more recs depending on your taste. The only ones I'll push right now are Sholay and Disco Dancer, not just because they're great (well, the former is legitimately great while the latter is great trash), but because Crumbsroom can also vouch for them and probably write smarter words in their favour than I'm capable of conjuring.

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Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:06 pm
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Thanks for the recs! If I remember right, Duplicate was a little too silly for me, haha, and I'm making an effort to expand beyond SRK at the moment. I'll try to watch Sholay and Disco Dancer soon.

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Isle of Dogs ▪ Eika Katappa ▪ The Devils ▪ Spider Baby or the Maddest Story Ever Told ▪ Sisters, or the Balance of Happiness ▪ The Thing ▪ Godounov (1989) ▪ Incredibles 2 ▪ Young Frankenstein ▪ The Lair of the White Worm ▪ The Blob

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Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:13 am
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Duplicate pushes the silliness pretty hard and I doubt a rewatch would change your mind, but find it has some of SRK's best laughs.

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Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:30 pm
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Shieldmaiden wrote:
Aw, Gort, I'm sorry. Of course I always watch recommendations in this thread. I just really wasn't sure from your wording whether you were recommending it to me. I guess I was being obtuse. I will watch even the zaniest of Bollywood for you! <3

Honestly, I was merely making a note to see what others thought of the film, if anyone else had seen it. But thanks for your pledge. I will not hold you to it, by the way. :)

It never occurred to me that it might have been a recommendation. And I'm not sure it's so much "zany" Bollywood as it is "sentimental" Bollywood. ;)

_________________
"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread. Catalog Rounds 1-3
Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)
Images disappeared 14 Feb 2018 -- forever.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

The Future Unreels will also lose all its images on the same day. But just think about how many images Jedi has on Photobucket, and the other posters here.


Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:51 am
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