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 2014 music thread 
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Try this on for size:


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Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:32 pm
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Wasn't aware of TALA until just now, but I listened to the whole Alchemy EP. Pretty good stuff. Definitely of the Banks-Broods-FKA Twigs-Evy Jane mold (all have 2014 releases). I'd put Mø in that category too, but she tends to make dancier tracks.

I like the style, but I can also see why people might find it a bit repetitive after a while

This Banks track is pretty similar in terms of tone and production

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Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:36 pm
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Sounds very similar to Jhene Aiko too.

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Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:52 pm
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Bandy Greensacks wrote:
Wasn't aware of TALA until just now, but I listened to the whole Alchemy EP. Pretty good stuff. Definitely of the Banks-Broods-FKA Twigs-Evy Jane mold (all have 2014 releases). I'd put Mø in that category too, but she tends to make dancier tracks.

I like the style, but I can also see why people might find it a bit repetitive after a while

This Banks track is pretty similar in terms of tone and production
This Banks singer ain't got no Iranian vocal stylings, though. Probably can't even find Iran on a map!

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Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:53 pm
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Banks strikes me as the weakest of the recent left-of-center R&B trend. I really tried to like her album, but it just felt a bit boring and uninspired compared to what some of these other artists are doing (twigs, Lanza, Kelela, Aiko, SZA, Tinashe, etc).

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Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:38 pm
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I've tried the FKA twigs twice now and find it boring *shrug*
What's the best of those, Izzy?

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Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:56 pm
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Tinashe. So good.

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:25 am
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Which ones have you listened to Trip? Her EPs or LP?



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Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:44 am
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FKA Twigs bored me to death, but I can see why some people would enjoy it. Heard of Banks, but don't believe I've listened to any tracks.


Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:47 am
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takeshi wrote:
Tinashe. So good.

Yes !! have you heard her mixtapes?

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:52 am
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I like the remix Sango did of this older Tinashe track more than anything on the album (and I like the album). Apparently he helped produce Cold Sweat, too.

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:17 am
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Vulnerable is one of my favorite songs from Black Water, well of her's period actually. I like the remix, but I still think I prefer the original (plus it has the Travi$ Scott verse). Cold Sweat is my favorite song on the album, but her mixtape stuff is just as good. Here's another one of my favorites (the remix by XXYYXX is also great).

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:26 am
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Do any of these new R&B crowd girls produce their own music? I cannot stand the mainstream "let's have a pretty girl sing a song written by someone else over someone else's beats" thing.

Also, I was digging through some "best new artists" list which seemed to cover only underground hip hop, R&B, and, strangely, indie rock (are those now all in the same circle?), and any time I can across a rapper with echo in the song I immediately got taken out of the song and wanted to burn something. Is that a common affliction?

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:01 am
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LEAVES wrote:
Do any of these new R&B crowd girls produce their own music? I cannot stand the mainstream "let's have a pretty girl sing a song written by someone else over someone else's beats" thing.

why does this matter

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:01 am
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"I was loving this song but then I looked at the writing credits and ugh.. terrible!!!"

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:13 am
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rad wrote:
why does this matter
'cause ugly people can sing, too.

You guys are looking at it from an individual song perspective and not from a 'this is a systemic issue that robs the listening public of potentially great artists due to a mass discrimination on looks'.

I was wondering if the less-mainstream but still fairly popular niche had the same general modus operandi. You know, because sometimes it's interesting to know things about the world.

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:01 am
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It's also interesting that cinema lovers, who are always swamped in a sea of, "The director is the only thing that matters" pseudo-auteurists would not think that it might be worthwhile to discriminate between singers who have different producers on each song and singers who produce their own material. But, you know, knee jerking is fun.

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:11 am
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But auteurism is an insanely flawed concept also.

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:18 am
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Her LP Izzy. It never soars. Those two tracks are about the same.

Tinashe seems more fun.

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:35 am
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Yeah, I'm pretty deep into the 'FKA Twigs is really, really boring' camp, myself. Most of the recent electronically flavored pop and RnB does that to me, actually.


Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:06 am
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Is it mass discrimination based on looks, or mass discrimination based on who can sing?


Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:56 pm
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ledfloyd wrote:
Is it mass discrimination based on looks, or mass discrimination based on who can sing?
Is that a serious question?

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:26 pm
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The answer is probably both.


Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:58 pm
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ledfloyd wrote:
The answer is probably both.
I'm assuming for the sake of interest that you're pointing out the absurdity in even having to pose the question, which also points out the even more absurd state that some people don't even discriminate based on talent and just pick the most appealing one and let auto-tune do the rest. I mean, Britney Spears sells records, after all.

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:08 pm
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No offense to Leaves, but he/she really shit the bed on this page.


Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:52 pm
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LEAVES wrote:
Do any of these new R&B crowd girls produce their own music? I cannot stand the mainstream "let's have a pretty girl sing a song written by someone else over someone else's beats" thing.


Well, for starters, songwriting and beat making aren't identical processes. Most, if not all of these girls are accomplished songwriters. If we're talking about production strictly in terms of crafting beats, both Tinashe and twigs do produce, but they also work with other producers. Tinashe recorded her first three mixtapes by herself in her bedroom. She reached out to producers she liked, but she was clearly in creative control. Twigs is a producer, visual artist, director, singer, songwriter, and professional dancer. I don't think anyone doubts that she's the "auteur" and the one in creative control of her art. Neither of them are like some label made things where A&Rs just send them into studios so big name producers can autotune their vocals into their tracks. Reminds me of what Sky Ferreira said about the tendency to denigrate female pop vocalists with the whole "for every talented woman there's always a stronger and more talented man behind her" sentiment.

Kelela, however, very consciously sings over other producer's beats, but she likes this particular aesthetic of combining her soft, throwback 90s vocals over hard, cavernous future garage and grime style beats. She tries to a create a kind of "mixtape" sound by adapting to the set made structures of the beat and getting lost in the highs and upper mids (since these beats are largely comprised of prominent sub bass, minimal activity in the mids, and practically vacant highs). She writes her own lyrics and vocals, however, but she enjoys the challenge of kind of "figuring out" a beat and drawing that inspiration from spare parts to construct her melodies, harmonies, and lyrical content. Here's a video with her and Bok Bok talking about their approach. It's clearly a very collaborative artistic process.

Jessy Lanza's approach is rather similar to Kelela's, but you've also got Solange, Beyoncé, and Janelle Monáe who all take a very active hand in the production of their music (on top of being singers, dancers, songwriters, stylists, and visual artists) and are undeniably the driving creative forces behind their music.

Solange is actually coming into her own as a solo producer. This is a song she produced (and wrote) for Cassie on her Saint Heron compilation album she curated, which also features artists like Jhené Aiko and Kelela (it's clear her sound has been influenced by Dev Hynes and vice versa, her chief collaborator recently on her EP True). Be warned, lots of "echo" and space.

LEAVES wrote:
Also, I was digging through some "best new artists" list which seemed to cover only underground hip hop, R&B, and, strangely, indie rock (are those now all in the same circle?), and


Indie is largely tilting toward the intersection of bass music, R&B, hip-hop, and pop. Traditional style "indie rock" with guitars, bass, and a vocalist isn't as common right now, but as you probably well know, these things go in cycles. The new progressive R&B, though, is probably the most excited I've been about music in a long time (since probably the postpunk rivival explosion in the early 00s).

LEAVES wrote:
any time I can across a rapper with echo in the song I immediately got taken out of the song and wanted to burn something. Is that a common affliction?


What do you mean an "echo" in the song? Are you talking about something wrong with the mixing of the vocals, or the use of space and reverb in the production and acoustics? Space is a big part of this sound.

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:45 am
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Looka wrote:
FKA Twigs bored me to death, but I can see why some people would enjoy it. Heard of Banks, but don't believe I've listened to any tracks.

Das wrote:
Yeah, I'm pretty deep into the 'FKA Twigs is really, really boring' camp, myself. Most of the recent electronically flavored pop and RnB does that to me, actually.

Trip wrote:
Her LP Izzy. It never soars. Those two tracks are about the same.

Tinashe seems more fun.

twigs isn't for everyone. Relative to her peers, she's more cast in the mold of a Sade meets Aaliyah via early Tricky, her EP work very minimalist and almost severe in its slinky production and ghostly vocals that seem to verge on a whisper. It's mood music, so I can easily see how it wouldn't put one in the most energetic spirits.

As an alternative to twigs, I'd recommend perhaps Kelela and Jessy Lanza. Their music has got more of a knocking hip-hop thump than downcast R&B atmospherics.

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:14 am
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"Bank Head" live


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Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:19 am
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Izzy Black wrote:
Well, for starters, songwriting and beat making aren't identical processes. Most, if not all of these girls are accomplished songwriters.

Izzy Black wrote:
Twigs is a producer, visual artist, director, singer, songwriter, and professional dancer. I don't think anyone doubts that she's the "auteur" and the one in creative control of her art. Neither of them are like some label made things where A&Rs just send them into studios so big name producers can autotune their vocals into their tracks. Reminds me of what Sky Ferreira said about the tendency to denigrate female pop vocalists with the whole "behind every talented woman there's always a stronger and more talented man behind her" sentiment.

Exactly. And even if there were a talented producer behind some of these artists, why would that be such a problem? Broods' album was produced in part by Joel Little, who had previously worked with (and probably helped launch the career of) Lorde, but Georgia, the lead singer, wrote most of the tracks. Her brother collaborated with Little on the production and is a multi-instrumentalist.

There's almost always collaboration in music, and it's harder than you might think to find talented vocalists. My friend and I have been writing and producing for years now, and we still haven't found a singer anywhere near as good as the ones mentioned on this page. Let me know if one just appears out of thin air and happens to live in the New England area.

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:51 am
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I missed Rkod's birthday. Happy birthday, DJ!

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:00 am
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Bandy Greensacks wrote:

Exactly. And even if there were a talented producer behind some of these artists, why would that be such a problem? Broods' album was produced in part by Joel Little, who had previously worked with (and probably helped launch the career of) Lorde, but Georgia, the lead singer, wrote most of the tracks. Her brother collaborated with Little on the production and is a multi-instrumentalist.

There's almost always collaboration in music, and it's harder than you might think to find talented vocalists. My friend and I have been writing and producing for years now, and we still haven't found a singer anywhere near as good as the ones mentioned on this page. Let me know if one just appears out of thin air and happens to live in the New England area.


Yes, and thanks for the Envy Jane reference. I hadn't listened to her before. If you have other artists in this genre, send them to me. I eat it up.

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:10 am
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Loving this. So nocturnal. They need an album! Gotta find the EP.

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:13 am
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I like that Evy Jane's influences range from James Blake (particularly on "Sosoft") all the way to reggae ("Worry Heart"). Definitely huge potential there.

And her voice kind of reminds me of Little Dragon's Yukimi Nagano, which is never a bad thing

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:37 am
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As a side-note extensive, and notably talented multi-discipline musicians that can cover the range from production to song-writing to handling multiple instrumental parts is a really, really, really exclusive and short list of musicians - and most specialized in genres of music that didn't utilize singing extensively for their role in the music.


Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:53 am
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Izzy Black wrote:
If you have other artists in this genre, send them to me. I eat it up.

From 2014: Alina Baraz & Galimatias, Movement, Ben Khan (I've mentioned him like 50 times already, but it's one of my favorite EPs in years), Nao vs. AK Paul (they've only released a single so far)

The first two fit that particular genre a bit better than the latter two, but yeah

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:25 am
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Quite-Gone Genie wrote:
I missed Rkod's birthday. Happy birthday, DJ!
I had the flu for it. Woo, fetal position and 101 degree fever!

(Thanks.)

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:07 am
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Looka wrote:
No offense to Leaves, but he/she really shit the bed on this page.
Truly I am here only to please you, and in that I have obviously failed, and for that I apologize from the deepest depths of my soul. Thankfully you have redeemed my errors with this amazing post full of interesting content and unmatchable wit.
Izzy Black wrote:
Well, for starters, songwriting and beat making aren't identical processes. Most, if not all of these girls are accomplished songwriters.
To me, coming from the world of mostly guitar driven music, the term "songwriting" means "instruments" whereas "lyrics" means "words". Here, am I correct in assuming that these girls write only "lyrics"? It could also mean "melodies", which is a separate thing. Note: Part of my recent renewed distaste for this "pretty face" stuff is an interview with Sia that I listened to recently where she revealed that she "writes" lyrics and melodies via improvisation, whereupon she often sells these songs for money and royalties to other, prettier faces. Some songs, like Rihanna's "Diamonds", were sung with the exact melody and words that Sia improvised. All Rihanna did was cover an unreleased Sia song, and she has 500,000,000 views on Youtube! Sia's song is only at 393,000,000 views. A shame. No, but, really, that's a hilariously absurd way of making art.

Izzy Black wrote:
If we're talking about production strictly in terms of crafting beats, both Tinashe and twigs do produce, but they also work with other producers. Tinashe recorded her first three mixtapes by herself in her bedroom. She reached out to producers she liked, but she was clearly in creative control. Twigs is a producer, visual artist, director, singer, songwriter, and professional dancer. I don't think anyone doubts that she's the "auteur" and the one in creative control of her art. Neither of them are like some label made things where A&Rs just send them into studios so big name producers can autotune their vocals into their tracks.
This is the kind of thing that interests me - you yourself said that you prefer Tinashe's mixtapes, yet for some reason now that she no longer "has to" make all of her own music she, or her creative team, decided that this was no longer - what, necessary? Best? Easiest? What is the reason? It often doesn't work! Why do they do it? I wish I knew. It is interesting that these girls coming up in this genre often know music rather than just singing. Not that you even need to know much about singing to make it in pop music...

Izzy Black wrote:
Reminds me of what Sky Ferreira said about the tendency to denigrate female pop vocalists with the whole "for every talented woman there's always a stronger and more talented man behind her" sentiment.
Yeah, but, like, it's literally true that some of these women contribute literally nothing but a copy of something created by someone else. They're cover artists posing as artists. And it's not always or perhaps even often than it's a talented man behind her - it is often a talented female. And equally often it's a talentless male! But he still contributed more than her!

Izzy Black wrote:
Kelela, however, very consciously sings over other producer's beats, but she likes this particular aesthetic of combining her soft, throwback 90s vocals over hard, cavernous future garage and grime style beats. She tries to a create a kind of "mixtape" sound by adapting to the set made structures of the beat and getting lost in the highs and upper mids (since these beats are largely comprised of prominent sub bass, minimal activity in the mids, and practically vacant highs). She writes her own lyrics and vocals, however, but she enjoys the challenge of kind of "figuring out" a beat and drawing that inspiration from spare parts to construct her melodies, harmonies, and lyrical content. Here's a video with her and Bok Bok talking about their approach. It's clearly a very collaborative artistic process.

Jessy Lanza's approach is rather similar to Kelela's, but you've also got Solange, Beyoncé, and Janelle Monáe who all take a very active hand in the production of their music (on top of being singers, dancers, songwriters, stylists, and visual artists) and are undeniably the driving creative forces behind their music.
I guess it's sort of similar to that whole "Chameleon Director" thing like with Louis Malle, but I just can't ever find myself getting too excited about a 12-short-film mashup of Zazie dans le metro, Lacombe Lucien, and 10 other random films, which musicians call "an album". It just doesn't seem to make any sense.

Izzy Black wrote:
Solange is actually coming into her own as a solo producer. This is a song she produced (and wrote) for Cassie on her Saint Heron compilation album she curated, which also features artists like Jhené Aiko and Kelela (it's clear her sound has been influenced by Dev Hynes and vice versa, her chief collaborator recently on her EP True). Be warned, lots of "echo" and space.
I gave up on the Knowles family after the head-scratching combo of "Bills, Bills, Bills" and "Independent Women". But that's just a personal thing. One would think that "Bootylicious" would cure me of such feelings, but no!

Izzy Black wrote:
What do you mean an "echo" in the song? Are you talking about something wrong with the mixing of the vocals, or the use of space and reverb in the production and acoustics? Space is a big part of this sound.
I'm talking about echo in a rap song, in the sense of a single duplication of a sound that came immediately before it, solely at the end of a verse. I have a violent, physical repulsion of the phenomenon. I don't necessarily know why, but it seems so antithetical to rap, like converting "flow" into "the runs". Just put on Aesop Rock's Labor Day and found myself unnerved by the use of echo there, too, solely at the end of a verse. It's an abomination, and it should not be allowed! Strange that such a simple thing triggers my autocratic tendencies.
Das wrote:
As a side-note extensive, and notably talented multi-discipline musicians that can cover the range from production to song-writing to handling multiple instrumental parts is a really, really, really exclusive and short list of musicians - and most specialized in genres of music that didn't utilize singing extensively for their role in the music.
Yeah, what a shitty way of creating art. No wonder it's mostly inconsistent nonsense! No wonder I like Kimbra's songs best when she plays her own instruments! No wonder I prefer bands to 'singers'!

There are many, many, maaaaany musical groups who produce all of their own music. This is not rare. It is extremely rare in pop music. I was curious as to whether it was extremely rare in this new R&B stuff, because as Izzy notes above with Tinashe and as I found out about TALA - they can and do, at times if not always, produce their own music, which includes that part of music that we call "singing". Buke and Gase are two people who make up one musical act, and they play a minimum of 2 instruments each in any given song. AND I CANNOT STOP LISTENING. TO ALL OF IT. Call me crazy, but it seems to me that, upon reflecting on my musical preferences, I seem to gravitate towards musical acts that write (for instruments) or produce (for beats) their own music. There are obvious theoretical gains to an overall artistic vision to be had from this, namely that it is physically possible to have one. Hence, I thought that this new "school" of music might involve many people who I may have a high likelihood of gravitating toward, in theory.

I didn't think people would be so hostile about it. But, whatever, I like hostility. Br'er Rabbit and all.

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:23 am
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Bandy Greensacks wrote:

Exactly. And even if there were a talented producer behind some of these artists, why would that be such a problem? Broods' album was produced in part by Joel Little, who had previously worked with (and probably helped launch the career of) Lorde, but Georgia, the lead singer, wrote most of the tracks. Her brother collaborated with Little on the production and is a multi-instrumentalist.

There's almost always collaboration in music, and it's harder than you might think to find talented vocalists. My friend and I have been writing and producing for years now, and we still haven't found a singer anywhere near as good as the ones mentioned on this page. Let me know if one just appears out of thin air and happens to live in the New England area.
You should host a large scale talent scouting function. Perhaps even a competition. Maybe even air it on national television. It would be unique!

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:29 am
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LEAVES wrote:
\You should host a large scale talent scouting function. Perhaps even a competition. Maybe even air it on national television. It would be unique!

Can we screen all the singers and intentionally allow the ones who can't sing to embarrass themselves in front of millions of people for ratings?

If so, I'm in!

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:51 am
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Bandy Greensacks wrote:
Can we screen all the singers and intentionally allow the ones who can't sing to embarrass themselves in front of millions of people for ratings?

If so, I'm in!
That sounds exceedingly cruel and exploitative.

Of course!

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:02 pm
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LEAVES wrote:
To me, coming from the world of mostly guitar driven music, the term "songwriting" means "instruments" whereas "lyrics" means "words". Here, am I correct in assuming that these girls write only "lyrics"? It could also mean "melodies", which is a separate thing.


They don't just sing, they write songs. They help develop song structure, they write melodies, harmonies, bridges, lyrics, and in many cases, work in collaboration with the producer to conceive of the sonic tone and feel of the beat. If you take away the beat itself, you could still transcribe their music from sheet music were it to be written down formally.

LEAVES wrote:
Note: Part of my recent renewed distaste for this "pretty face" stuff is an interview with Sia that I listened to recently where she revealed that she "writes" lyrics and melodies via improvisation, whereupon she often sells these songs for money and royalties to other, prettier faces. Some songs, like Rihanna's "Diamonds", were sung with the exact melody and words that Sia improvised. All Rihanna did was cover an unreleased Sia song, and she has 500,000,000 views on Youtube! Sia's song is only at 393,000,000 views. A shame. No, but, really, that's a hilariously absurd way of making art.


Each of the artists I mentioned is more than a pretty face. They are tremendously talented young women.

LEAVES wrote:
This is the kind of thing that interests me - you yourself said that you prefer Tinashe's mixtapes, yet for some reason now that she no longer "has to" make all of her own music she, or her creative team, decided that this was no longer - what, necessary? Best? Easiest? What is the reason? It often doesn't work! Why do they do it? I wish I knew. It is interesting that these girls coming up in this genre often know music rather than just singing. Not that you even need to know much about singing to make it in pop music...


Her album actually features some of her best solo production. The benefit of the label and full length album is that it allowed her the time and resources to reach out to other creative voices to inform her work. It's like the transition from a DIY short film by a low-budget indie filmmaker that had to do the camerawork, acting, and editing herself to a feature-length film once getting a studio deal that allowed her to enlist top tier talent like Roger Deakins, Daniel Day-Lewis, and Thelma Schoonmaker. We don't denigrate her artisty simply because she collaborates with word class talent. That would be silly, of course.

If you're bent on the autuerist angle, one mark of imprint is that you can see how, despite the diversity of the production team Tinashe consulted, all of the production is sonically cohesive, consistent, and coherent, falling under Tinashe's creative direction. The music ultimately reflects her vision and ultimate say, but it of course goes deeper than that, since she also writes and produces on the album and actively participates in the entire production process. The same pretty much applies to every artist I've mentioned.

LEAVES wrote:
Yeah, but, like, it's literally true that some of these women contribute literally nothing but a copy of something created by someone else. They're cover artists posing as artists. And it's not always or perhaps even often than it's a talented man behind her - it is often a talented female. And equally often it's a talentless male! But he still contributed more than her!


Not these women. Sky's point is that there's an unwarranted assumption or bias against female vocalists.

LEAVES wrote:
I guess it's sort of similar to that whole "Chameleon Director" thing like with Louis Malle, but I just can't ever find myself getting too excited about a 12-short-film mashup of Zazie dans le metro, Lacombe Lucien, and 10 other random films, which musicians call "an album". It just doesn't seem to make any sense.


It's more like they're artists collaborating with other artists in an industry of artists. It's kind of like cinema.

LEAVES wrote:
I gave up on the Knowles family after the head-scratching combo of "Bills, Bills, Bills" and "Independent Women". But that's just a personal thing. One would think that "Bootylicious" would cure me of such feelings, but no!


It's like saying I gave up on Joaquin Phoenix for his credits as Leif Phoenix in after school specials in the 80s. It's just a really silly thing to say. Solange has been writing for herself and other artists, producing her own music, developing her own brand of Afrocentric fashion and style, choreographing inspired dance routines, playing and performing on instruments, and creating interesting art for several years now. Beyoncé just released the most artistically ambitious album of her career. What's an artist without growth?

And this is all beside the point, because I like those early records. There's a tendency to cast away R&B as less challenging and interesting than other musical forms, and it's rarely with any basis. When rock musicians make music about sex, it's transgressive, when R&B singers do, it's just "urban" music.

LEAVES wrote:
I'm talking about echo in a rap song, in the sense of a single duplication of a sound that came immediately before it, solely at the end of a verse. I have a violent, physical repulsion of the phenomenon. I don't necessarily know why, but it seems so antithetical to rap, like converting "flow" into "the runs". Just put on Aesop Rock's Labor Day and found myself unnerved by the use of echo there, too, solely at the end of a verse. It's an abomination, and it should not be allowed! Strange that such a simple thing triggers my autocratic tendencies.


I don't think this relates to any of the music I've been discussing.

LEAVES wrote:
There are many, many, maaaaany musical groups who produce all of their own music. This is not rare. It is extremely rare in pop music.


"Groups"? Well, of course. But groups collaborate on an artistic project. Kind of like an R&B singer and a producer (see Kelela and Bok Bok interview above). Das' very correct point is that few are first-rate multi-instrumentalists. Rather, they're specialists, and each specialist contributes their expertise to the overall creation or design. In fewer cases, you have those that do everything very well, and while that's impressive, so is the other stuff. Collaborative art has a lot of value to us around here, especially us movie buffs.

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:30 pm
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Was Aaliyah just a pretty face? Or was she part of a living artistic community and team that included Timbaland and Missy Elliot? How is Aaliyah's role in her own music very much different from, say, Debbie Harry's in Blondie? (If you don't like that example, just give me a list of some of your favorite bands and we'll work with those).

In fact, Aaliyah is one of the most influential artists of her generation, but under your metric, maybe nothing more than a pretty face who sang pop songs. Perhaps it would be different if Timbaland were playing guitar, the music were rock, and they called themselves something like 'The Artists'.

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:52 pm
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Alternate answer: LEAVES is old.

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:55 pm
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Izzy Black wrote:
Was Aaliyah just a pretty face? Or was she part of a living artistic community and team that included Timbaland and Missy Elliot? How is Aaliyah's role in her own music very much different from, say, Debbie Harry's in Blondie? (If you don't like that example, just give me a list of some of your favorite bands and we'll work with those).

In fact, Aaliyah is one of the most influential artists of her generation, but under your metric, maybe nothing more than a pretty face who sang pop songs. Perhaps it would be different if Timbaland were playing guitar, the music were rock, and they called themselves something like 'The Artists'.
What I posted was clearly a postulate, not a metric. This is why I used such words as "may have a high likelihood of grativating toward, in theory." And "may have a high likelihood of grativating toward, in theory." A postulate of what I may personally find interesting based on past interests, and why it is that I find those sorts of things interesting. It's not to say that it is correct, nor is it to say that it applies to any person other than myself.

I don't listen to any Aaliyah, so I couldn't tell you anything about whether the music under her name is interesting. However, if she had a consistent artistic community then it's only different from a 'group' or a 'band' in name only, in which case 'the artistic community necessarily including Timbaland and Missy Elliot' would certainly qualify as a musical group that I "may have a high likelihood of grativating toward, in theory." If she put out an album with 12 different beatmakers, then I wouldn't anticipate that I would find the whole thing very coherent. Even less so if she didn't write any of the lyrics or melodies. This is in fact irrespective of the person that sings the song. To me, this makes sense. Even if it's Aaliyah. Or Beyonce. Or Darryl Palumbo.
Izzy Black wrote:
Each of the artists I mentioned is more than a pretty face. They are tremendously talented young women.
And here is what I don't understand: Why do you post this? I did not attack any of the people you mentioned as not talented. I attacked the process, and wondered whether a process which I find unlikely to produce results that are interesting particularly and solely to myself are applied in the context of this new developing wave. Nothing could be any more impersonal.
Izzy Black wrote:
Not these women. Sky's point is that there's an unwarranted assumption or bias against female vocalists.
This isn't even referring to the same context as the context that I was referring to, so I have no idea what is going on at this point. And even when I said that "some of these women contribute literally nothing", it again was not an attack on the women but on the process chosen, perhaps not of their choosing, contractually. So it's completely off-base and irrelevant and completely sidetracking any beneficial discussion to go on a monologue about a point that we both agree on, which is actually insulting to my intelligence and dignity. Thanks for that.
Izzy Black wrote:
It's more like they're artists collaborating with other artists in an industry of artists. It's kind of like cinema.
Certainly. And since your Aaliyah example emphasized the importance of consistent collaboration and not sporadic collaboration, it seems as if you are attempting to reinforce my personal postulate while at the same time insulting my character. Interesting.
Izzy Black wrote:
I don't think this relates to any of the music I've been discussing.
Correct. If you'll note my original post, the two had absolutely nothing to do with each other, so I was completely confused as to why you would go down this road, except that you found some small completely irrelevant nugget to continue your diatribe with.

But I hope you enjoyed your post.

You'll note that my original post on this topic essentially said, "Hey these singers sound interesting and far more talented and musically knowledgeable than other well-known R&B singers these days, is this a commonality?" and now... what happened? I don't understand.

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:27 pm
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takeshi wrote:
Alternate answer: LEAVES is old.
Yes, but, I agree with every point Izzy makes and I don't understand where she disagrees with me? So Izzy is old, too?

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:28 pm
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Image
:D

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Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:36 am
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Leaves and that cutting, brutal sarcasm! He/she/it must be right about all things! This board is so insular it hurts.


Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:46 am
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A lot of people on this board have incredible knowledge on film but are awful with music. KFV WAS RIGHT.

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Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:30 am
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The sooner you realize that a LEAVES argument is mostly about circling back to 'I'm right' while dragging things out as far as they can go, the better you'll feel.


Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:08 am
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Peter Gabriel


Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:34 am
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