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 Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death 
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Captain Terror wrote:
One more comment about Freaks- is everyone aware that this guy

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is the actor that played Master in Beyond Thunderdome?

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Wasn't sure if that was common knowledge, so I thought I'd pass it on.
:shock: No, I had no idea; I thought they had just casted some random short person as Master, but apparently, according to IMDB, he was a professional actor who performed in over 70 movies during his lifetime. Damn, what a tidbit...

"Who runs Bartertown...? Master Blaster!"

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Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:35 am
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He was also the dwarf on this Tom Waits album cover.

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Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:42 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
I think that as long as you steer clear of the attempts to politicize the film's themes, it's a very evocative, unsettling film.


And as an example of that, I didn't find this critique to be so straightforwardly convincing because
you have The Devil being portrayed as a surrogate patriarch himself, even something of a velvet-gloved pimp. His scene at the end is not so different from Harvey Keitel in Taxi Driver luring Jodie Foster into his confidence.


The entire ordeal that the family undegoes is
entirely due to the father's failings. It is his pride that leads to their exile in the first place. It is later his denial of their situation that leads them to such desperate living. He even lets his daughter take the fall for having stolen the cup, when in reality he was the one who did it. The Devil is another patriarch, like you say, but in the context of the time period, women always had to choose a "master"--a father, a husband, etc. I don't see the main character as being freed at the end, even if she is maybe slightly empowered--she is just living in a different version of patriarchy. I don't see the Devil as "saving" her from the patriarchy--quite the opposite. I think that the Devil being a man just drives the point home--her choice isn't much of a choice. She falls in with the person who offers her the most autonomy. She is still under the power of another.


This isn't me being fist-in-the-air about a feminist reading. This is just what seemed apparent to me watching the movie. I also don't think that it's necessarily a "political" reading of the story. There was a reality for women during this era--the power that they had and the way that they were regarded (especially in terms of being susceptible to "seduction" by the devil) that was all about their gender. If you are going to make a movie about a teenage girl and her dysfunctional relationship with her puritan family, her gender/sexuality is inevitably going to be the center of that conflict. This movie would not be the same if the main character were a teenage boy. Saying that talking about how gender and power inform this narrative is "politicizing" it seems to me like ignoring a central pillar of the whole movie.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:07 am
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Takoma1 wrote:
If you are going to make a movie about a teenage girl and her dysfunctional relationship with her puritan family, her gender/sexuality is inevitably going to be the center of that conflict. This movie would not be the same if the main character were a teenage boy.

Well, it certainly couldn't be called The Witch, but I think it's also worth considering how Caleb was similarly victimized. The dysfunctional relationship plays out in other ways as well.

Takoma1 wrote:
Saying that talking about how gender and power inform this narrative is "politicizing" it seems to me like ignoring a central pillar of the whole movie.

Good thing then that this isn't what I said. The politicizing that I'm referring to (and I can provide a few articles outlining this) refers to "the witch" being an essentially liberating presence from the patriarchy. There are readings of the film that have
Thomison's ascension at the end being this liberation, following the more romantic view of witchcraft being a subversive feminism. It isn't even so much that I'm unsympathetic to this reading, per se (and Haxan makes a more effective point on it), but that there happens to be the textual inconsistency of The Witch being a baby murderer, an evil which makes a weak contrast against the evils of puritanical patriarchy and a bit of a moral red herring.


I prefer to see the ending as
a euphoria brought about by the trauma of events, trauma for which I wouldn't ignore the blame of the father's deceit and hubris, but also wouldn't absolve from the entity that was actually causing the death and havoc. I reject the notion of Thomisine being liberated at the end because it seems pretty clear that, as a witch, she will also be resorting to feeding off of other children
, and they remain the only true innocents in the film.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:57 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
Well, it certainly couldn't be called The Witch, but I think it's also worth considering how Caleb was similarly victimized. The dysfunctional relationship plays out in other ways as well.


Maybe. It seems to me that
the deaths of two of the siblings are directly tied to Thomasina's failings in terms of her gender. She fails to protect the baby in a maternal role. And later the temptation of her body is directly reflected in the boobtastic witch who seduces Caleb. I think that the environment they are in is generally oppressive to all of the children, regardless of gender.


Jinnistan wrote:
Good thing then that this isn't what I said.


Maybe I misunderstood the flow of your earlier post. You advised him to avoid politicizing of the story's themes, then said "for example" and quoted me saying it was allegorically a critique of the patriarchy.

For the record, I agree that
seeing becoming a witch as liberation is inherently flawed, and the idea that mushing up babies in a mortar and pestle is living the free life is misguided. I do understand where that reading comes from, because when you are pushed down over and over again, sometimes there is a release in defiance of that force. I'm not sure how I interpret the ending. My initial reaction was that everything that had happened was a clever orchestration to drive Thomasina into the Devil's arms. Basically knowing that she would be treated so poorly by her family, which then makes her more susceptible to the Devil's charms and promises of power and freedom.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:18 am
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Takoma1 wrote:
My initial reaction was that
everything that had happened was a clever orchestration to drive Thomasina into the Devil's arms. Basically knowing that she would be treated so poorly by her family, which then makes her more susceptible to the Devil's charms and promises of power and freedom.


That was my take as well.
The devil asks if she would like to "live deliciously" and promises finer clothes, etc. when we've already seen throughout the film that the other witches are living anything but deliciously. So my take was that she'd been duped, but interviews with Eggers seem to suggest that he considers "going witch" to be liberating. Also that (gorgeous!) final shot seems to indicate a "happy" ending.
The ultimate message is less important to me than the ride to get there.

Also, for Mr. Oxnard--I should qualify my "favorite movie of the decade" claim. I like purty pictures, and this one's full of them. I also have a fetish for traditional witch imagery so this was basically porn for me. While I still maintain that this is an excellent film, it also was aimed squarely up my personal alley, so your results may vary.

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Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:41 am
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Takoma1 wrote:
Maybe. It seems to me that
the deaths of two of the siblings are directly tied to Thomasina's failings in terms of her gender. She fails to protect the baby in a maternal role. And later the temptation of her body is directly reflected in the boobtastic witch who seduces Caleb. I think that the environment they are in is generally oppressive to all of the children, regardless of gender.

I agree.

Takoma1 wrote:
Maybe I misunderstood the flow of your earlier post. You advised him to avoid politicizing of the story's themes, then said "for example" and quoted me saying it was allegorically a critique of the patriarchy.

Let me try again then. The problem that I have with what I've seen to be the typical patriarchy-critique readings is that
they tend to disproportionately lay the blame for the ensuing trauma on the father without acknowledging the active antagonism of The Witch. The father is clearly to blame for creating a situation for why they are where they are, and his stubborness in the face of this conflict and his reflex to blame his daughter for forces beyond her control. However I also lay a hefty portion of blame on those forces that are causing these troubles.


As I pointed out, I have no problem with the overarching theme of witchcraft, in the puritanical perspective, being the manifestation of the fear of female sexuality. And Haxan, again, is a pretty defining portrayal of this. The problem I have with this in The Witch is where it leads to
the inconsistency of having this be both a critique of this puritanical fear, but also positing this fearful stereotype of a baby-mashing witch as a reality of nature as opposed to a superstitious projection. I think that in doing so, it undermines this critique, and we're forced to judge the Witch as if it were as real as the film presents it. This complicates the meaning that at least some of its reviewers wish to extract from it.


So I should have been more specific in how the film is politicized, and the complications arising from that. But I don't think it's a bad idea to watch the film without presuming such subtext and allowing it to unfold on its narrative merits.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:43 am
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Let me see what to do with my extra posts.

I also saw Get Out recently which was very enjoyable. A lot of great, awkward humor in the first half and Daniel Kaluuya is impressive. I have to admit that I was hoping for a more surprising twist, and that in addition to being somewhat predictable in its second half, the film also chooses chaos over suspense for it's third act climax. Thankfully, Lil Rel Howery steals the movie right on time.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:44 am
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Does anyone have any word on this Polish-British film Demon?


Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:45 am
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Hopefully all of this secret spoiler text is coercing Oxnard into his fateful rendezvous.

Sharpen the clutches.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:05 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
Let me see what to do with my extra posts.

I also saw Get Out recently which was very enjoyable. A lot of great, awkward humor in the first half and Daniel Kaluuya is impressive. I have to admit that I was hoping for a more surprising twist, and that in addition to being somewhat predictable in its second half, the film also chooses chaos over suspense for it's third act climax. Thankfully, Lil Rel Howery steals the movie right on time.
Personally, I felt Get Out had a 3rd act that was actually a lot stronger than most of what had come before, starting from the point when
Chris discovers his "girlfriend"'s little photo album. I also didn't anticipate the twist that all the black people in that neighborhood were having their brains stolen from them by white people, as opposed to the more straightforward brainwashing the movie had hinted at before, so I actually enjoyed that particular twist.
Anyway, I felt the 3rd act finally delivered on all the gory, over-the-top, Horror thrills the film had mostly been holding back on beforehand, without also just devolving into mindless bloodletting, as the visceral horrors were happening side-by-side onscreen at the same time as the intriguing new story details are developing, sharing space with them and adding a new dimension to the overall experience.

That being said, however, overall I'd still have to say it was a mild disappointment; the first 2 acts weren't bad or anything, but they were inconsistently engaging, as they were mostly just a series of moments of people acting vaguely creepy that weren't nearly scary or intriguing enough to gets its hooks in me fully. Even if you hadn't seen any promotional material for the film beforehand, it's immediately apparent that something's up with this neighborhood, so the trick is to make the hinting at that dark secret early on compelling to watch, while putting off the more concrete plot developments for later. Sadly, I just don't feel Peele's directorial style was vivid enough in any way to make all these low-key scenes of people mostly just talking to one another come "alive" in the way that they should have; it just lacked a lot of the creepy sort of atmosphere that would've made it much better. Still, certainly not a complete waste of a film on the whole though, and Peele does show a lot of unfulfilled potential as a director in general, so I'm definitely looking forward to his next project, and hoping he'll do better with that one.

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Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:06 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
Hopefully all of this secret spoiler text is coercing Oxnard into his fateful rendezvous.

Sharpen the clutches.


oh it is, it is


Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:14 am
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Stu wrote:
That being said, however, overall I'd still have to say it was a mild disappointment; the first 2 acts weren't bad or anything, but they were inconsistently engaging, as they were mostly just a series of moments of people acting vaguely creepy that weren't nearly scary or intriguing enough to gets its hooks in me fully.

I definitely disagree. I thought that the paranoid social humor of these scenes were the film's highlights. It's easy to see Key & Peele doing a great sketch by turning this white, post-racial condescension into a horror scenario, but I'm very happy that Peele kept the humor more low-key and instead made a genuinely involving horror film from it. Even something so simple as the opening scene - recasting the typically female victim as Trayvon Martin - is just brilliant. But, I dunno, I thought that once the plot was revealed, it seemed very obvious.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:15 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
I definitely disagree. I thought that the paranoid social humor of these scenes were the film's highlights. It's easy to see Key & Peele doing a great sketch by turning this white, post-racial condescension into a horror scenario, but I'm very happy that Peele kept the humor more low-key and instead made a genuinely involving horror film from it. Even something so simple as the opening scene - recasting the typically female victim as Trayvon Martin - is just brilliant. But, I dunno, I thought that once the plot was revealed, it seemed very obvious.
I didn't find the awkward "social humor" of the first 2 acts to be that funny, but then again, I don't feel that Peele really intended those moments to really be funny, so to each his own. Instead, too much of the comedy was forced onto Lil Rel's character, who might as well had been a refugee from one of the more cartoonish sketches on Key & Peele, which, was one of my favorite comedy shows, but here, in this context, just sort of got on my nerves. The more traditional Horror elements of the 3rd act were definitely my favorite aspect of the film, since they did a really good job of being thrilling without becoming mindless at the same time. Good stuff, I just wish the rest of the film had been as good as that.

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Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:35 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
Let me try again then. The problem that I have with what I've seen to be the typical patriarchy-critique readings is that
they tend to disproportionately lay the blame for the ensuing trauma on the father without acknowledging the active antagonism of The Witch. The father is clearly to blame for creating a situation for why they are where they are, and his stubborness in the face of this conflict and his reflex to blame his daughter for forces beyond her control. However I also lay a hefty portion of blame on those forces that are causing these troubles.


.
.
The problem I have with this in The Witch is where it leads to
the inconsistency of having this be both a critique of this puritanical fear, but also positing this fearful stereotype of a baby-mashing witch as a reality of nature as opposed to a superstitious projection. I think that in doing so, it undermines this critique, and we're forced to judge the Witch as if it were as real as the film presents it. This complicates the meaning that at least some of its reviewers wish to extract from it.


In this case, yes, we are in agreement. I think that the choice to have
the Witch be an actual literal being (as opposed to something that the father/family is imagining) complicates things. But I think that there's another way to read the actual existence of the Witch. To me, she is a creature who exists almost as a result of the supersititions. Does that make sense? Almost like she is a physical manifestation of the "evil woman" imagined by the father/the puritans? Because I think that it's interesting the way that Thomasina's "failures" as a woman just happen to align with the actions of the Witch. Thomasina fails in a "mother" role by losing the baby, which leads in horribly dramatic fashion to the baby being mushed into a paste. Thomasina acts as a seductress (by allowing her brother to see her body) and the brother is then lured into possession and death by the world's most tempting pair of breasts. I don't think that it's a coincidence that Thomasina's actions--not harmful by intention-- seem to come with exaggerated consequences from the Witch. The Witch is like every woman-blaming cautionary tale come to life, and I think that her mirroring of Thomasina's experiences is intentional. There are external forces at work, to be sure, but they are only able to get their hooks into the family because of the father and his actions.


The idea that becoming
a witch is liberating (in the context of this film) seems silly to me. It's clearly just changing one state of subservience for another.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:25 am
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Takoma1 wrote:
In this case, yes, we are in agreement.

It's a minor point of interpretation. You know me well enough to know that I'm not so allergic to feminist politics in my films, but it does look as if I initially dismissed any and all feminist aspects of the film as "politics", which wasn't my intention. I need to learn not to short-hand my established opinions from RT here. Starting over sucks. It's like we're all dating again. Hi.

Takoma1 wrote:
The idea that becoming
a witch is liberating (in the context of this film) seems silly to me. It's clearly just changing one state of subservience for another.

Yes, I see the ending as deeply bittersweet in context, but the high is deceptive.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:39 pm
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A quick thought occurred to me. Carrie is a great example of a self-fulfillng witch movie. She obviously would have been considered a witch in any previous century, and pretty much all of the harm she doles out can credibly be blamed on just about everyone else besides her.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:08 pm
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
quick question: what is everyone's thoughts on The VVitch?

Mediocre at best. Skip it and watch A Field In England instead.

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Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:09 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
A quick thought occurred to me. Carrie is a great example of a self-fulfillng witch movie. She obviously would have been considered a witch in any previous century, and pretty much all of the harm she doles out can credibly be blamed on just about everyone else besides her.

I agree. Its also a great horror film, although I wish De Palma had kept the book's ending.

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Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:10 am
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MadMan wrote:
Mediocre at best. Skip it and watch A Field In England instead.

*smacks Madman upside the head*

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Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:53 am
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Rock wrote:
*smacks Madman upside the head*

Thanks for proving me right.

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Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:12 pm
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hey now, there's enough time out there for two movies.


Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:11 am
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
hey now, there's enough time out there for two movies.

Have you seen Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer yet?

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Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:16 am
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Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Have you seen Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer yet?


Good film, but almost entirely dependent of the strength of Michael Rooker's performance. Also,
not one person paints a portrait in it.


I'm required to counter any mention of Henry with a referral to Man Bites Dog. Although a comedy, it's somehow much more gut-level disturbing to me. I keep coming back to it, though.


Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:31 am
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Catbus! wrote:
I'm required to counter any mention of Henry with a referral to Man Bites Dog. Although a comedy, it's somehow much more gut-level disturbing to me. I keep coming back to it, though.

It deserves your fidelity. That film bites back.


Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:53 am
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Catbus! wrote:

Good film, but almost entirely dependent of the strength of Michael Rooker's performance. Also,
not one person paints a portrait in it.


I'm required to counter any mention of Henry with a referral to Man Bites Dog. Although a comedy, it's somehow much more gut-level disturbing to me. I keep coming back to it, though.

Michael Rooker is a large part of the film's greatness, but I wouldn't say that the film was almost entirely dependent on him. There were a couple other things I liked about the film. Firstly, as other people have pointed out in the past, it has a realistic depiction of a psychopath in the way that he'd be okay with offing his friends without any hesitation. Also, I forget exactly what Henry said, but after he murdered the 2 prostitutes, he explained his philosophy on killing to Otis. I also liked how not every kill in the film was onscreen. Sometimes, the film would show the killings off-screen or only show the aftermath of the killings. I think this shows that McNaughton was relying on other aspects, not just bloody violence (even though there are a few gruesome kills in the film).

Man Bites Dog is another good film, but I liked this one a bit more.

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Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:57 am
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Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Have you seen Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer yet?


aye. I thought it was effective and somewhat assured with the idea that men like Henry can never really be "known". although such an idea can never really be held comfortably.


Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:20 am
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:

aye. I thought it was effective and somewhat assured with the idea that men like Henry can never really be "known". although such an idea can never really be held comfortably.

Then, in that case, I might as well recommend Man Bites Dog as Catbus mentioned it as well. It's somewhat similar to Henry.

Since you asked for 2 recommendations, however, I'll also recommend Howl (2015). It's a fun B-movie, albeit a pretty good one.

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Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:32 am
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any movie where Allen Ginsberg turns into a werewolf sounds good to me. but I'll have to watch VVitch and Field in England first.

also, I had also seen Man Bites Dog which I assume is a more tasteful Cannibal Holocaust ("it's the media who are the real killers!"). "tasteful" being relative of course.


Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:00 am
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
any movie where Allen Ginsberg turns into a werewolf sounds good to me.

I'm actually talking about this one, not the 2010 film.

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Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:04 am
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I know, I was being goofy.


Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:14 am
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If we're pimping grimy serial killer movies, might I recommend the original Maniac?

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Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:46 am
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Rock wrote:
If we're pimping grimy serial killer movies, might I recommend the original Maniac?

The 1980 film, right?

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Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:58 am
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Popcorn Reviews wrote:
The 1980 film, right?

Yes sir.

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Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:59 am
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Rock wrote:
Yes sir.

I'll check it out this weekend.

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Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:59 am
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
I know, I was being goofy.


Have you seen Man Bites Goofy? sickest Disney short I've ever seen.


Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:29 pm
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Catbus! wrote:

Have you seen Man Bites Goofy? sickest Disney short I've ever seen.


can't be sicker than Fulci's Don't Torture Huey, Dewey, and Louie.


Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:09 pm
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So many horrible celluloid stains from the pit of Disney's snuff-toon tyranny. Let's Scare Jessica Rabbit To Death, The Texas Chainsaw Mouseketeers, Kill, Bambi, Kill. Black eyes, all, to the sanctity of decency.


Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:17 pm
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I am quickly outclassed. Going to just sit back and enjoy these.

But something something Disney's monumental yet self-indulgent My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasia before I go.


Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:57 am
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Your Mice Are A Locked Room, And Only I Have The Key?

I'll stop now.

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Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:02 am
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No Country Bears for Old Men

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Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:05 am
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Peter Pan's Labyrinth
Mickey Mouse Clubhouse of 1,000 Corpses
DuckTales from the Crypt
Bedknobs and Boomsticks
Let Buzz Lightyear In
Aristocat People
Alice, Sweet Alice in Wonderland

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Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:40 am
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A Goofy Serbian Film.

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Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:22 am
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Hiho: 120 Days with The Seven Dwarves


Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:10 am
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Post Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Snow White and the Sinful Dwarf

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Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:20 am
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Post Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

The Fox and the Howling
Beauty And The Beast Must Die
Darby O'Gill and the Living Dead II
The Legend of Chernabog Creek
The Abominable Mr. Toad
Die, Die My Dumbo

It's shameless the way Disney courted the Manson Family drive-in demographic.


Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:35 am
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Post Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Who Slew Kanga and Roo?

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Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:38 am
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And here we are.


Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:27 am
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Captain Terror wrote:
One more comment about Freaks- is everyone aware that this guy

Image

is the actor that played Master in Beyond Thunderdome?

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Wasn't sure if that was common knowledge, so I thought I'd pass it on.


No, little man. We've only just begun.


Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:30 pm
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Post Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
quick question: what is everyone's thoughts on The VVitch?

Loved it.


Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:31 pm
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