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 Award Season In Hell 
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Deschain wrote:
Glad Sam Rockwell has an Oscar. Just maaaaybe not for that role?
Why not? Did you not think he was good in it?

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Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:36 pm
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Stu wrote:
To be fair, I'm pretty sure DaMU's post about it was a joke, since I remember him listing it in his top 5 of the year, as did I (as my #3, and I still want to write a full review of it eventually), for what that's worth. So, it is a somewhat divisive film, yes, but it does have its fans, definitely.


Yeah, mine was a goof. I liked it very much, although a weekend watch of Phantom Thread dropped it down a little more. PTA + DDL = OMG.

It's funny, I had trouble envisioning people's hangups with the film, and now I feel on the opposite end with Three Billboards, which I found to be a hot mess.

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Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:56 pm
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Stu wrote:
Why not? Did you not think he was good in it?

He was fine in it. It was just weird that his character’s backstory involved
him torturing a black prisoner, yet his redemption arc isn’t about his racism but instead alcoholism. Not a character I’d like to see promoted with an award.


Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:31 pm
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Jinnistan wrote:
No Powers Boothe or Tobe Hooper in the Memoriam section.

And John Mahoney may be better known for TV, but he's goddamn W.P. Mayhew.

What makes it worse is that they show a clip from TCM in one of the montages.

Also the Corrie backlash against the BP winner is more predictable than the Oscars.

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Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:37 pm
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I, for one, am super stoked that Toro won stuff


Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:42 am
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DaMU wrote:
It's funny, I had trouble envisioning people's hangups with the film
My problems with the movie are mostly to do with the central character and how she's a despicable person who walks all over everyone else in her life, but the movie instead wants us to find her winsome and charming. Spoilers:

She routinely jeopardizes the employment of her friend who covers her ass when she shows up late because she spends that time masturbating every morning. She also jeopardizes the housing of her neighbor when she floods the apartment to get her interspecies fuck on. And do these people ever protest? No, they just smile and enable her every indulgence. It's particularly weird in a movie that invokes the Civil Rights movement and depicts anti-gay discrimination to have the central character treat its black and gay supporting characters so shabbily and never confront her on this. But that's because the movie forces everything into a black-and-white moral spectrum. The movie can't abide you thinking the fishman-rescuing heroine might be a piece of human garbage in her daily life, so it just never interrogates that. Better to give us a scene of Octavia Spencer asking about fish dick than to have her honestly ask why Sally Hawkins can't get her ass to work on time. But hey, she's not the outright bigot that the literally rotting G-man villain is, so that makes her the perfect princess that Richard Jenkins tells us she is in voiceover, I guess?
If you're not charmed by Sally Hawkins, it's an incredibly frustrating movie. I'm also really tired of the one-half-of-a-color-wheel visual palette that del Toro keeps leaning on, and Desplat's score is obnoxiously twee. For me, Amelie Fucks a Fish was easily the worst of the best picture nominees.

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Also the Corrie backlash against the BP winner is more predictable than the Oscars.
In my defense, I hated the movie as soon as I saw it and have railed against it well before the ceremony, as this very thread can attest. It's this year's Toni Erdmann, the widely acclaimed movie that makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills for struggling to find the least shred of value in it.

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Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:47 am
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I'm not a huge fan of The Shape of Water either. Dunkirk, Get Out or Phantom Thread were more worthy.

As it was with
The Artist, Argo and Birdman, I bet it gained an edge for making Hollywood look good, such as in the scenes where Elisa and Giles bond over old black and white musicals that the Academy's most senior members are probably still nostalgic about.

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Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:27 am
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The Oscars have yet again provided their only purpose, a free lunch at the expense of coworkers who vote with their heart.


Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:45 am
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The Academy needs fewer Tom Hanks types and more Udo Kiers. I'd like to think there's an alternate universe where Nekromantik won best picture.

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Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:19 am
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Torgo wrote:
The Academy needs fewer Tom Hanks types and more Udo Kiers. I'd like to think there's an alternate universe where Nekromantik won best picture.
"Panic briefly erupted at the 91st Academy Awards ceremony last night as host Crispin Glover announced he had released a family of rabid opossums into the crowd."

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Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:29 am
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BL wrote:
"Panic briefly erupted at the 91st Academy Awards ceremony last night as host Crispin Glover announced he had released a family of rabid opossums into the crowd."
"Reportedly, Udo just shook his head, smiled and remained seated."

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Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:36 am
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Dialogue tracks in all acting clips have been replaced with Werner Herzog narration.

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Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:52 am
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If a winner's speech runs long, they are dragged from the stage by a giant tentacle operated by Jim Henson's Creature Shop.

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Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:21 am
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I'm fine with The Shape of Water winning. Even though Three Billboards is my favorite of the nominees, no sci-fi film has ever won Best Picture before, so it was great to see one finally win. I agree with BL that some of Elisa's actions were questionable (especially the bathroom flooding scene), but the only ones which stood out to me took up a slight portion of the film's running time. Not enough to ruin the film altogether for me.

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Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:50 am
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The Nameless One wrote:
I, for one, am super stoked that Toro won stuff



Maybe now he can finally get funding for At the Mountains of Madness.

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Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:17 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
No Powers Boothe or Tobe Hooper in the Memoriam section.

And John Mahoney may be better known for TV, but he's goddamn W.P. Mayhew.


I think you meant to say James Court.


Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:25 am
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Death Proof wrote:


Maybe now he can finally get funding for At the Mountains of Madness.
Exactly. It's, like, dude just got the golden ticket to do whatever. This is the best best picture winner ever by far


Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:13 pm
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The Nameless One wrote:
Exactly. It's, like, dude just got the golden ticket to do whatever. This is the best best picture winner ever by far
Right. He 100% won't waste years after this ripe period of opportunity pitching mind-blowing concepts to the public only to end up making a boring, compromised product in the end. Totally not his style.

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Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:21 pm
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DaMU wrote:

Yeah, mine was a goof. I liked it very much, although a weekend watch of Phantom Thread dropped it down a little more. PTA + DDL = OMG.

It's funny, I had trouble envisioning people's hangups with the film, and now I feel on the opposite end with Three Billboards, which I found to be a hot mess.
I was weird about a lot of the Best Picture nominees I saw this year; I was disappointed that I wasn't a bigger fan of the most universally-praised ones I saw (like the fairly low-key Thread, the somewhat inconsistent Get Out, or Lady Bird, which I enjoyed, but felt it relied too much on overly broad comedy and stereotypically quirky "indie movie" characters, at the expense of the more dramatic elements, and I didn't even bother writing a review of it, ultimately). On the other hand, I preferred relatively more divisive releases like Dunkirk, The Shape Of Water, or the granddaddy of all the 2017 audience-splitters, Three Billboards. I just had to be a movie rebel this year, I suppose...
Deschain wrote:
He was fine in it. It was just weird that his character’s backstory involved
him torturing a black prisoner, yet his redemption arc isn’t about his racism but instead alcoholism. Not a character I’d like to see promoted with an award.
Yeah, but that's an issue with the way Martin McDonagh characterized Dixon through his screenwriting, not with the way Rockwell portrayed him through his performance; that's like saying that Alessandro Bertolazzi, Giorgio Gregorini, and Christopher Nelson didn't deserve to win their Best Makeup Oscar just because the film they worked on happened to be Suicide Squad (and they did deserve that, regardless of whether you liked that movie (which I didn't; but, still)).

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Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:37 pm
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BL wrote:
Right. He 100% won't waste years after this ripe period of opportunity pitching mind-blowing concepts to the public only to end up making a boring, compromised product in the end. Totally not his style.
Does it hurt to think in this manner?

Oh, Nameless is on his old bullshit again


Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:48 am
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Surely these mind-blowing concepts could have been held back by, you know, people who want to make money. You work with what you got, and what dude gots at this point is a BP and BD Oscar

My brain works more painlessly than yours and I'm in the psyche ward!


Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:52 am
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The Nameless One wrote:
Surely these mind-blowing concepts could have been held back by, you know, people who want to make money. You work with what you got, and what dude gots at this point is a BP and BD Oscar

Presumably the people who financed Twin Peaks: The Return wanted to make money. Presumably, the people who financed Phantom Thread wanted to make money. Presumably, the people who financed The Florida Project wanted to make money. Presumably, the people who financed Nocturama wanted to make money. I could go on and on in this fashion, but my point is that there are so many other ambitious projects that get greenlighted in a given year while del Toro just keeps cranking out mediocrities while promising magic that he can't deliver. His stated ambition isn't particularly special when he keeps failing to deliver in the end product.

Episode 8 of Twin Peaks: The Return on its own is both more ambitious and more accomplished than anything del Toro has ever attempted, and I guarantee it was made at a fraction of the cost of The Shape of Water. That's a bogus excuse.

And while we're at it, Michael Cimino also got BP and BD Oscars. Look where that got him.

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Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:14 pm
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I don't think you even need to discuss GDT individually to say that winning BP will probably do fuck-all for something like At the Mountains of Madness.

Look at it this way. Paul Haggis, Ben Affleck, and Michel Hazanavicius haven't really done anything, film-wise, that they couldn't've found financing and support for prior to winning their awards (and all saw a real downturn in critical acclaim thereafter). Tom Hooper's played it safe and stuck to awards-friendly films since. Innaritu's currently shifting to television, as is Tom McCarthy. Hell, it's taken Steve McQueen six years to follow up on 12 Years, and he's making a modest heist movie. Oscar wins don't translate into much of anything, in most cases. People more or less continue along the trajectory they were on, assuming they don't crash and burn. If GDT can leverage his win into AtMoM, I'll love it, but I'll be stunned.

Sidebar: if PTA wanted to try a cosmic horror tale at any point, the guy would fucking crush it. After watching the subtle creepiness of Phantom Thread, and reflecting on the voiceless vistas of There Will Be Blood, he could bring some truly weird flavor to one of those stories.

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Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:51 pm
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DaMU wrote:
I don't think you even need to discuss GDT individually to say that winning BP will probably do fuck-all for something like At the Mountains of Madness.

Look at it this way. Paul Haggis, Ben Affleck, and Michel Hazanavicius haven't really done anything, film-wise, that they couldn't've found financing and support for prior to winning their awards (and all saw a real downturn in critical acclaim thereafter). Tom Hooper's played it safe and stuck to awards-friendly films since. Innaritu's currently shifting to television, as is Tom McCarthy. Oscar wins don't translate into much of anything, in most cases. People more or less continue along the trajectory they were on, assuming they don't crash and burn. If GDT can leverage his win into AtMoM, I'll love it, but I'll be stunned.

Sidebar: if PTA wanted to try a cosmic horror tale at any point, the guy would fucking crush it. After watching the subtle creepiness of Phantom Thread, and reflecting on the voiceless vistas of There Will Be Blood, he could bring some truly weird flavor to one of those stories.
I generally agree with what you're saying here, and I used Michael Cimino as shorthand for that effect. There's little precedent to suggest that a best picture/best director win will dramatically reshape the course of a director's career. Oliver Stone's win for Platoon was a big boost for him, and Jonathan Demme's win for The Silence of the Lambs I think set him off-course into middling prestige-picture territory for a while, but I can't really isolate any distinct difference in prestige or accomplishment from directors based on their Oscar wins post-1986.

But that's a separate question from how filmmakers market themselves and their supposed future projects. And may I be struck dead if del Toro hasn't routinely promised more than he's ever delivered as a filmmaker.

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Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:02 pm
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I don't like this trend of overpoliticizing the significance of the Oscars. This week, we've learned that the metoo movement has been delivered a terrible blow because Lady Bird failed to win anything, and that wife-beating Gary Oldman is still a great actor despite his past problems with anger issues and alcohol.

Outside of the incomprehensible inability for allegedly educated people to hold more than a single thought in their heads at the same time - that talent and morality are not mutually reinforced qualities - it also threatens to undermine the quality of the medium. For example, I read an article shortly before the ceremony (I forget, one of those terribly woke sites) that was breaking down the short doc category in such a way that seemed to suggest that the writer hadn't bothered to actually watch the films. What it boiled down to was something like "will women on opiates resonate more with voters than criminal justice reform?" I dunno, maybe it depends on the damn execution. Watch the films and then decide which one handled its subject matter better, rather than just weighing which issue you think is the most important. Like this is some kind of intersectional competition for the most worthy cause. Like Hollywood (where the art of film is also woefully misunderstood) has been saying, great films are "execution dependent". It appears that Hollywood is not the only place in the world where execution is treated with the suspicion of particularly unaesthetic eyes.


Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:00 am
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BL wrote:
Presumably the people who financed Twin Peaks: The Return wanted to make money. Presumably, the people who financed Phantom Thread wanted to make money. Presumably, the people who financed The Florida Project wanted to make money. Presumably, the people who financed Nocturama wanted to make money. I could go on and on in this fashion, but my point is that there are so many other ambitious projects that get greenlighted in a given year while del Toro just keeps cranking out mediocrities while promising magic that he can't deliver. His stated ambition isn't particularly special when he keeps failing to deliver in the end product.
Image

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Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:31 pm
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Del Toro directed The Devil's Backbone. Enough said. I've never considered him a mediocre director and I'm glad for his BP and BD wins. Although I was personally rooting for Three Billboards out of the nominees. If there was an Oscar God though I'd love to have seen The Disaster Artist nominated and win.


Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:29 pm
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Jinnistan wrote:
I don't like this trend of overpoliticizing the significance of the Oscars. This week, we've learned that the metoo movement has been delivered a terrible blow because Lady Bird failed to win anything, and that wife-beating Gary Oldman is still a great actor despite his past problems with anger issues and alcohol.


Was there ever evidence that Oldman actually beat his wife? I read like 10 articles on this the other day, going back to the time of the accusation, and I could never find any evidence that this actually happened. He was accused by a person who a judge did not see fit to have even partial custody of her own children and who had everything to gain by making this claim, he denied it, and as far as I could find, no one ever showed that it occurred.
I'm not saying it for-sure didn't, I just wonder if we have any evidence before we actually label him a "wife-beater".


Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:15 pm
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Wooley wrote:
Was there ever evidence that Oldman actually beat his wife? I read like 10 articles on this the other day, going back to the time of the accusation, and I could never find any evidence that this actually happened. He was accused by a person who a judge did not see fit to have even partial custody of her own children and who had everything to gain by making this claim, he denied it, and as far as I could find, no one ever showed that it occurred.
I'm not saying it for-sure didn't, I just wonder if we have any evidence before we actually label him a "wife-beater".

I didn't want to get into the entire mire of why his specific accusations have been refuted and, at least legally, debunked, but, yes, it's a clear example of weaponizing allegations in an underhanded way of masquerading as fact.

But even taken, for sake of argument, at face value that, given Oldman's more substantiated instances of public anger and intoxication which were well known throughout the 90s, it may be possible to infer the possibility of domestic violence in 2001, then it still remains a leap to characterize him as a "predator" (as I saw him characterized in a recent Vox piece), as if the incident was of a willful misogyny as opposed to a symptom of these other personal problems. For the sake of argument, if we assume the allegation correct, then it still seems more than a coincidence that no such allegation has arisen since the time that he's gotten sober and therapy.

This brings up a more troubling aspect of the #metoo movement, especially the tendency to troll through decades of past behavior in absence of more recent examples, which shows a mercilessness towards its targets. At what point should we be expected to forgive or redeem past behavior? At all? Again, this starts to become something closer to head-hunting, championing the trophies as objects rather than attempting to empathize with the human subjects. The irresponsibility of ignoring relevant exculpatory facts in order to maintain this enemies list is a sign that some may be using the cause for less honorable intentions.

All that being said, it's all still beside the point, as unsavory as some see it, of talented accomplishment. If Gary Oldman had the finest performance of the year, then he deserves the Oscar. That's the extent of the criteria. Likewise, despite Casey Affleck's trespasses of years past (also under alcoholic influence, if I remember), he still deserved his Oscar for his work in Manchester By The Sea. It's not a very polite thing to bring up for most people, but those who are familiar with his biography are aware that there is a more than likely possibility that Marlon Brando had an incestuous relationship with his daughter. Cheyenne had alleged "sexual abuse", but stopped short at actual intercourse, but this appears to have been a major factor in her suicide regardless. Marlon Brando was likely a moral monster, and, as unpalatable as it may seem to polite company, Marlon Brando is still one of the great actors of the 20th Century. Both things can be true, and it's bizarre that some people still need to get them twisted. Talented people, especially those "blessed" with the indulgences of fame, are frequently terrible people. This isn't relevant to their talented accomplishments.


Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:24 am
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I have to admit that I think the recent decision by Cannes to disqualify Netflix's film offerings is one of the dumbest things I've read from the festival. I've never really understood the aversion in the past - good movies are good movies - but I think this year's rationale decidedly falls into disingenuous dogshit. They've implemented a rule that determines that only films which have French theatrical distribution can be shown in competition. It doesn't require much knowledge or imagination to think of several past Cannes contenders that did not have any distribution at the time of its showing, and in fact Cannes provided one of the more prestigious platforms in which films can acquire distribution. One example has to be Andrei Rublev, a film which, arguably, was salvaged from the Russian censors by a successful showing in 1969 (and gaining French distribution afterwards, while still winning the FIPRESCI prize).

There's a lot of old romanticism about the cinema, and I sympathize. I prefer the cinema experience to home viewing, at least as an ideal. The problem, which Cannes is unable to decipher, is that the cinema experience has changed pretty drastically in recent years. Part of this is due to technological changes, but, in America, it's the economic changes that are more pertinent. As in there's very little film studio interest in financing smaller and medium budget projects. Netflix has managed to turn its revenue model into a lucrative and (most importantly for the Cannes elite) creatively liberal film investment venture. In America, it isn't so much that audiences have stopped attending these kinds of films because they don't want to see them, it's because both the deteriorating theater experience and the more attractive pricing structure of Netflix. What Cannes should be applauding is the fact that these films are now more accessible to more audiences who do not have to squeeze into the very limited-run schedules at their local art house (assuming they have one).

But Cannes does not care about the people or the poor. No, they insist. It feeds every elitist stereotype ever hurled at their gala.

Some of the films which will not be shown at Cannes this year: Alfonso Cuarón’s “Roma,” Jeremy Saulnier’s “Hold the Dark,” Paul Greengrass’ “Norway,” Orson Welles’ long-lost “The Other Side of the Wind,” and Morgan Neville’s Welles documentary “They’ll Love Me When I’m Dead.” Add to this list upcoming projects from Scorsese and the Coen Brothers, and nobody thought to ask why these filmmakers have decided that Netflix provides them with more attractive means than the traditional studios?


Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:02 am
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Yeah I don’t get the stigma against Netflix or any streaming service-funded films either.

What a dumb rule to only accept movies with French theatrical distribution. Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of a film festival? I’ve worked on friends’ shorts that made it to Cannes. They wouldn’t have the exposure they did without the festival circuit.


Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:14 pm
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Deschain wrote:
What a dumb rule to only accept movies with French theatrical distribution. Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of a film festival?

Exactly. Plus such a protectionist rule to solely benefit the French theatrical market undermines the whole "international" thing as well. Can anyone imagine what the reaction would be if TIFF only accepted films which had already secured Canadian distribution? Plus, my understanding is that France requires a three year gap between theatrical release and streaming service.

Cannes needs to understand that greater accessibility to these films is more important than popcorn sales, and the ethos of creative expression should lead them to champion the freedom that Netflix has afforded their filmmakers. Does anyone really think that the latest film from Cuaron is less worthy than Solo? Maybe we need another student shutdown to make the point.


Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:13 pm
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