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 I sure wish RT was still here for TLJ Hottakes 
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RT being gone is really hurting me right now. I need everyone's opinion on the film. I need Damu and MKS hot-takes. I posted my opinions on it in the YMCA thread, but I would really like to hear more discussion. Part of the fun of seeing movies was discussing them with you guys. I'm dying, Squirtle.


Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:00 am
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I'm seeing it at 5:15 PT today, expect a take so hot that you burn your fingers on your keyboard.

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Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:41 am
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Saw it last night and really liked it. There’s tons of minor problems and nitpicks that bugged me but it was an otherwise enjoyable movie overall.


Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:32 am
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Maybe we can make a spoiler-filled thread tonight where we just get deep into those dirty, filthy, sexy spoilers.

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Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:26 am
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I desperately need to unload, and could use some classic RT right now. I haven't stopped thinking about the damn thing since last night, and would confidently rate it a solid *WTF out of 5*. Like, seriously, what the fuck did I go see? This movie was balls to the wall insane, and I'm not sure that's a compliment. While a lot of the intentional humor falls flat, this Star Wars entry is inadvertently hilarious. I can't help but crack up when recounting the nonsense I'd seen. Such wondrous moments as...

Leia force-flying through space, Yoda's force ghost destroying Jedi scripture, Yoda's force ghost smacking Luke in the head with a cane, the Skywalkers continuing their legacy of shitty parenting, a climactic battle fakeout performed through astral projection, poooooorgs, a strangely unnecessary subplot about a fancy casino hacker that's instantly abandoned in favor of a Benicio Del Toro plot that also disappears, Captain Phasma doubling down on her irrelevance, Admiral Ackbar's unglorified death, and BB-88 driving a pair of AT-ST legs by the reigns.

Nitpicking aside, the true sin of the movie lies in its disservice to Luke Skywalker. Luke went from being the guy who never gives up on anyone to the cynic who gives up on everything. He put his own life on the line to save his father's soul, a man he'd never even known. Now he contemplates murdering his nephew for sharing the same inner conflict? It doesn't make any thematic sense.


Objectively, I think it's a terrible contribution to the Star Wars mythos, but that's not to say that I hate it. I enjoyed myself far too much to hate it. And there's always something to complement...

The acting, Rey's first training session, Sian Jeisel's(?) sacrifice for the rebel fleet, the space casino, General Hux (mostly), and an actual sense of "where's the hell is this going"? It's just unfortunate that it ended up going to La La Land, leaving little room for this trilogy to feel like any sort of cohesive whole. This movie does not function as a natural extension to The Force Awakens. Regardless, the experience was worthwhile. The throne room showdown, along with Luke's milking of a giant anteater, will always hold a special place in my heart.


I actually can't wait to see how the next movie will attempt to play off the madness that is The Last Jedi. Does that mean that Disney won?


Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:01 am
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you'll be getting an earful tomorrow night from me, don't you worry.

two earfuls, even!


Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:38 am
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Going to reshare this Last Jedi-related post from The YMCA just in case anyone here misses it.

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Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:01 am
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I liked it. It's too long for its own good and the script is admittedly messy, mostly due to certain subplots stumbling a bit. Still though, at its best moments (I.e. Basically everything centering around Luke/Rey/Kylo) it was pretty close to fantastic territory. I appreciate much of its ambition even if it bit off more than it could chew. I'm thinking maybe a 7/10-ish.

I was hoping that
Laura Dern would unintentionally become a stand-in for Kathleen Lennedy but then her redemptive tactics ruined that. Also, was I the only one unsure of how Rey got back to the Falcon after fighting with Kylo ?


Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:46 pm
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Justice League currently has a higher audience approval rating!? Wow, i never thought disney would have the balls to make such a divisive movie. Wonder if they are going to rethink letting Johnson helm the next trilogy.


Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:52 pm
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This is where my head's at right now (reposted from Match-Cut):

I liked it more than TFA and Rogue One. The Luke/Rey/Kylo action was all interesting and well-executed. Agreed with many that I wasn't as invested in the casino adventure, although my take on the animal discussion was that Rose was speaking metaphorically about suffering her people had endured. A lot of the character work that I wasn't as impressed with felt carried over from TFA (specifically that Finn in this film is more function than character, whereas in the last film he was basically whatever Abrams wanted him to be at any given moment, which was worse in that it was incoherent - but it was also more dynamic moment to moment, so, y'know, call it a push). There's a lot of exciting ideas in the film, especially the overall theme of being willing to let go of the past to forge your own future.

Luke has to be okay with letting go of the Jedi, Rose is willing to give up her necklace, Rey is able to move past her own feelings of abandonment, but Kylo is still so tumultuous internally that he can't lay down his burdens - he has to raze them to the ground, which, of course, is the exact same thing Luke almost does with the Jedi shrine he has. Killing something doesn't free you from it. You have to set it down.


On that note, appreciated a number of reveals and surprises in the film:

(1) Snoke getting axed. Fine with it, loved when it happened. We could learn about him later, or not. Frankly, he's another Abrams relic I'm happy to see dispatched with little pomp. (2) Phasma getting dropped down a well. Good. Same as (1). (3) Seeing Yoda. At first, nahh, but I loved that he brought the theme home as he stood beside Luke.


While there's nothing in the film that gave me the emotions I felt in the original two Star Wars films (and stretches of the third), there was a real ambition and drive here to futz with the formula, to shirk the overall regality and borderline-masturbatory honorings of the prior two films. This film is in many ways a piss-take to The Force Awakens, saying, "Oh, yeah, what else you got?" It's maybe my favorite of this franchise since the original three - not quite as good as I'd privately hoped, but sturdier on a dramatic level than either previous Disney offering, more willing to venture off the beaten path, and even when it's replicating, it's subverting.

On that note, I appreciated that the standoff at the end is more-or-less detritus of both armies. The great legacy of the Empire is in tatters, throwing one more Death Star laser at the heroes (a pitiful little railgun of a thing, dragged along by a couple of gorilla-walkers), while the survivors pilot clunky little craft before escaping back on the goddamn Falcon, which has never looked smaller.


There were definitely moments where I wasn't sure how I felt about developments (an escape for Leia, a crucial moment with Luke at the end), but I'd like to watch the film again to see how they settle. This is a beast of a movie, so another viewing where I can spend more time paying attention to the character dynamics, their goals and motivations and self-discovery, will help me gain a better sense of it all.

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Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:38 pm
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Charles Longboat Jr. wrote:
I liked it. It's too long for its own good and the script is admittedly messy, mostly due to certain subplots stumbling a bit. Still though, at its best moments (I.e. Basically everything centering around Luke/Rey/Kylo) it was pretty close to fantastic territory. I appreciate much of its ambition even if it bit off more than it could chew. I'm thinking maybe a 7/10-ish.

I was hoping that
Laura Dern would unintentionally become a stand-in for Kathleen Lennedy but then her redemptive tactics ruined that. Also, was I the only one unsure of how Rey got back to the Falcon after fighting with Kylo ?

Before she puts herself in the coffin pod thingy she tells Chewy to meet her at an agreed-upon point. Then after the fight with Kylo he mentions she stole a shuttle.


Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:39 pm
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Spencie Returns wrote:
I desperately need to unload, and could use some classic RT right now. I haven't stopped thinking about the damn thing since last night, and would confidently rate it a solid *WTF out of 5*. Like, seriously, what the fuck did I go see? This movie was balls to the wall insane, and I'm not sure that's a compliment. While a lot of the intentional humor falls flat, this Star Wars entry is inadvertently hilarious. I can't help but crack up when recounting the nonsense I'd seen. Such wondrous moments as...

Leia force-flying through space, Yoda's force ghost destroying Jedi scripture, Yoda's force ghost smacking Luke in the head with a cane, the Skywalkers continuing their legacy of shitty parenting, a climactic battle fakeout performed through astral projection, poooooorgs, a strangely unnecessary subplot about a fancy casino hacker that's instantly abandoned in favor of a Benicio Del Toro plot that also disappears, Captain Phasma doubling down on her irrelevance, Admiral Ackbar's unglorified death, and BB-88 driving a pair of AT-ST legs by the reigns.

Nitpicking aside, the true sin of the movie lies in its disservice to Luke Skywalker. Luke went from being the guy who never gives up on anyone to the cynic who gives up on everything. He put his own life on the line to save his father's soul, a man he'd never even known. Now he contemplates murdering his nephew for sharing the same inner conflict? It doesn't make any thematic sense.


Objectively, I think it's a terrible contribution to the Star Wars mythos, but that's not to say that I hate it. I enjoyed myself far too much to hate it. And there's always something to complement...

The acting, Rey's first training session, Sian Jeisel's(?) sacrifice for the rebel fleet, the space casino, General Hux (mostly), and an actual sense of "where's the hell is this going"? It's just unfortunate that it ended up going to La La Land, leaving little room for this trilogy to feel like any sort of cohesive whole. This movie does not function as a natural extension to The Force Awakens. Regardless, the experience was worthwhile. The throne room showdown, along with Luke's milking of a giant anteater, will always hold a special place in my heart.


I actually can't wait to see how the next movie will attempt to play off the madness that is The Last Jedi. Does that mean that Disney won?


Agreed with a lot of what you're saying, did like Luke though.


Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:27 am
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As I said in Horrorcram, exactly ONE of the three main threads in this movie work, damn lucky it's the only one anyone cares about anyway.
Poe Dameron's story in this one is just pitifully mishandled and makes the movie seem ridiculously poorly scripted and Finn's pointless fool's errand gets worse by the minute and ultimately amounts to nothing other than completely devaluing his character.
But Rey/Kylo/Luke works pretty nicely and I was pretty happy with where all that fell out, even if Rey is already a super-Jedi despite no actual training at all.

There is so much bad expository dialogue in this movie it may actually be better with the sound off.
Overall, I'd say that it's not some total fail, but it makes firmly clear that Star Wars will never achieve its former greatness.


Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:35 am
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I think I'd be a lot less sour if...

Luke hadn't contemplated killing an innocent, young Kylo.


I just can't wrap my head around such a decision. It's a spit in the face to his personality and triumph in the original films. I was already a little bummed that The Last Jedi made him out to be a coward, but TLJ decided to take it a step further.


Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:00 am
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Hipster Thor wrote:
RT being gone is really hurting me right now. I need everyone's opinion on the film. I need Damu and MKS hot-takes. I posted my opinions on it in the YMCA thread, but I would really like to hear more discussion. Part of the fun of seeing movies was discussing them with you guys. I'm dying, Squirtle.


It was a mixed bag. The film struck me very much the same way the prequels did: Johnson, by his own account, was given too long of a leash. He did whatever he wanted and the film became a Frankenstein monster of ideas, some excellent, some baffling, many half baked.

I could prattle on in detail about Porgs, ill advised Space Casinos and puzzling character choices or praise the fight choreography and the Kylo/Rey plot but instead, I want to bitch about what keeps me from being fully positive about the experience is the thematic dissonance in the film.

The Force Awakens struck me as being thematically sound, with virtually everyone (including Abrams) trying and failing to capture the past. Han Solo's death seemed to solidify it's futility and everyone was made to push forward into an unknown future.

This made the Last Jedi's decision to destroy the past logical and satisfying. I liked Luke tossing the Saber or Rey having an anti climax for her parentage. It tied all the dissonant elements of the film together only for them, in the last few minutes, toss all of that to the wind.

Luke proclaims there will be another Jedi, the books are preserved, Rose gets her necklace back, the Resistance is saved, the First Order is preserved, and Leia appears to be the figure head. For a movie that pushed so much to be a slate clearer, the dissonance of these scenes frustrates me. It could be intentional and the next will have some theme about reconciliation between past and future being necessary, but here it felt tacked on and rendered the film as a tad pointless on a thematic front.

Lastly, the film does feel like the quintessence of Star Wars. Not just the OT, as Abrams clearly was inspired by, but rather the whole some of the franchise, prequels and special editions included, so discussing it feels how I do when I discuss the entire franchise. There's a lot to love but I have to give considerable qualifiers and overlook a lot of flabberghast.

I need to see it again.


Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:06 am
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MKS!

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Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:28 am
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That was a really good Hot Take, MKS.


Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:39 am
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Man, it got hot in here for a second.

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Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:19 am
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Hipster Thor wrote:
That was a really good Hot Take, MKS.

Thanks, Thor. I too was missing RT in the wake of this film. It definitely made me want to talk about it. I'll give it that.


Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:47 am
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I grinned wryly at the idea of the filmmakers being unable to choose whether Luke dies in combat against Kylo Ren or peacefully on a cliff by the seaside overlooking the sunset and then landing on the idea to do both (sorta). ha ha, The Force!


anyway my overall feeling might be one of satiated curiosity and not “oh wow, that was amazing!” but maybe that’s just because of my relationship to these movies as an adult vs. as a kid and such. it wasn't slavish/self-conscious like the Abrams one and that's always good. I almost wonder if I would like these movies a bit more if the spaceships, costumes, planets, aliens, etc had a bit more interesting designs. but that might just be cosmetics. *shrug*


Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:44 pm
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Star Wars made $45 million on Thursday previews. They should give me some of that money. I mean donate.


Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:12 pm
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also it has come to my attention that I'm not the only one who thought the

Rey/Kylo team-up against the red guards was the SW equivalent of a sex scene. yowza


Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:37 pm
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
also it has come to my attention that I'm not the only one who thought the

Rey/Kylo team-up against the red guards was the SW equivalent of a sex scene. yowza


I noticed that too. You're absolutely right. It is equivalent to that on a thematic level. The last "shot" is the finisher.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:59 am
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For me, much much better than TFA. The CG and battle scenes were great. Didn't have a problem with the side plots. If they could have did everything in about 15 less minutes, I'd give it a higher score.

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Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:57 am
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I can't wait for screenshots to come out so that I can have Luke drinking alien milk as my avatar.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:20 am
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Spencie Returns wrote:
I can't wait for screenshots to come out so that I can have Luke drinking alien milk as my avatar.

All these years, I expected blue cows. Johnson's disregard for expectations gives no quarter!


Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:35 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
All these years, I expected blue cows. Johnson's disregard for expectations gives no quarter!


After Luke milked it, the alien should've said something guttural and then we get the subtitle, "Ehh, it's a living."

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Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:13 am
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Hipster Thor wrote:

I noticed that too. You're absolutely right. It is equivalent to that on a thematic level. The last "shot" is the finisher.


maybe this is me being facile or making tenuous connections but I was reminded of that New Yorker short story that went viral. in that the main conflict between it's two characters, he lets his emotions prevent him from having a meaningful relationship, she's too inexperienced and unsure of herself to know what she wants, sorta somewhat resembled Kylo and Rey (and other male-female relationships not in New Yorker short stories as well).

but that hopefully those who were unable to see why the female protagonist acted the way she did (i.e. the source of 'Net controversy) are able to at least understand why Rey acted the way she did. (you know, if there is any analogy to real life relationships in the Rey/Kylo one)


Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:51 am
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DaMU wrote:

After Luke milked it, the alien should've said something guttural and then we get the subtitle, "Ehh, it's a living."

If you change it to English and in the voice of Roz from Monster's Inc, the scene may actually be TOO good.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:54 am
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DaMU wrote:
There were definitely moments where I wasn't sure how I felt about developments (an escape for Leia, a crucial moment with Luke at the end)
Do you mean
him showing up as nothing but a Force-vision during the final battle, or him immediately fading away into Force-ghostness afterward? Because I didn't really mind either aspect there; I actually enjoyed the subversion of the former a lot, and him fading away may turn out to be a premature, forced sort of "say goodbye to yet another Star Wars hero from the previous generation of films" moment, but it's really up to the next Episode to use his memory in a way that justifies his end here, which I can easily see happening based on the way previous entries have used deceased mentors, so it's a wait-and-see sort of deal for me.
Spencie Returns wrote:
I think I'd be a lot less sour if...

Luke hadn't contemplated killing an innocent, young Kylo.


I just can't wrap my head around such a decision. It's a spit in the face to his personality and triumph in the original films. I was already a little bummed that The Last Jedi made him out to be a coward, but TLJ decided to take it a step further.
I was fine with it because
Luke was obviously an inexperienced teacher at the time, and the fear of a possible, incredibly powerful dark-side Kylo was so overwhelmingly terrifying to him in that moment, because he had never before dealt with the possibility of accidentally creating a new Sith master. And after all, it's not like he didn't come to his senses and stop himself from killing Kylo in the end, anyway.

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Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:56 am
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Popcorn Reviews wrote:
MKS!
Well well, looks we got yet another poster who waited until the apparent death of the RT forums before finally registering here...

Image

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Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:07 am
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What MKS really nailed was describing it as a "quintessence" of Star Wars in that it encompasses the best and worst aspects of the franchise as a whole. That is a perspective I have not seen expressed yet across the breadth of reactions.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:46 am
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There's another interesting point that DAMU brought up about the final conflict in the film between the First Order and Resistance. I like the idea of these two, once great powers in the galaxy, literally rolling around in the salt with no shame or reservation. The Resistance has burned all their resources, and the First Order has lost all dignity and decorum. It's animalistic. I wish the film drew more attention to this pathetic mess of the power struggle. They are reduced to insignificant specks on a useless planet in a huge galaxy where it's in question as to if it even matters who is in power anyway, or even how much power these people would even reasonably have if they were. Which would tie in nicely in with Benecio Del Toro's character's philosophy (which the film draws attention to).


Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:06 am
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Stu wrote:
Do you mean
him showing up as nothing but a Force-vision during the final battle, or him immediately fading away into Force-ghostness afterward? Because I didn't really mind either aspect there; I actually enjoyed the subversion of the former a lot, and him fading away may turn out to be a premature, forced sort of "say goodbye to yet another Star Wars hero from the previous generation of films" moment, but it's really up to the next Episode to use his memory in a way that justifies his end here, which I can easily see happening based on the way previous entries have used deceased mentors, so it's a wait-and-see sort of deal for me.


I liked the astral projection reveal, although I'm not sure Johnson needed the slow-mo blade dodges. What I was trying to wrap my head around was whether or not that final slice from Kylo actually did do some sort of thing to Luke's astral form - as though enough of the physical impact carried over to his true self back on Jedi Island. And if that then was a factor in him "dying" by becoming one with the force. Or if it was simply the sheer soulful exertion of his astral projection that led to Luke shedding human form a la Yoda at the end of Jedi. Maybe the rhythm will be clearer on a second viewing.

I'm similarly not against either development, and I like - in theory - that this is another step forward in the idea of Jedi who dissipate rather than simply die. You can chart that through the entire saga, as Qui-Gonn is caught off balance in Phantom, Obi-Wan disappears in Wars, Yoda visibly evaporates in Jedi (although he's clearly died in that moment), and now it's like Luke's body was overeager to get rid of this corporeal nonsense.

It's also a sharp example of internal development, since the film is carefully building up this idea of being able to Force-project yourself across the galaxy. You recognize that it's an unexpected payoff to the entire Rey/Kylo dynamic. And that technically we saw the first iteration of it at the end of Empire. It was fun to see Johnson build on that conceit and see how far he could carry it.


Unrelated: I also just love love love love

that Rey is just some goddamn girl.

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Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:21 am
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That moment when Luke is about to "die" and he looks up and sees two suns and the his theme weaves into the score, tho. So, so, so good. I did get ready eyed. Visually and thematically it's the perfect way for Luke to say goodbye to the audience.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:32 am
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DaMU wrote:
Unrelated: I also just love love love love

that Rey is just some goddamn girl.
While I agree that that was probably the best decision Johnson could've made on that front, I still feel that, at this point,
the Star Wars saga has done the whole "secret relative reveal" thing so many times that, "subverting" that with Rey's parentage isn't that big of a, well, subversion, as that particular zig-instead-of-zag feels almost just as predictable as the alternative. I guess I have to give Rion some credit for not doing the most obvious thing in the world and have Rey be Luke's daughter, or Kylo Ren's long-lost twin sister or something, but it isn't much; when Kylo broke the truth to us, I was just thinking "Okay, that isn't all that interesting a subversion... whatever, I guess". The best way to have gone about it, in my opinion, would have been to never built up Rey's family to be some sort of big "mystery", either in this or in Force Awakens at all, but to convey it the second we first meet her, or at least as soon as suits the film; Rey just so happens to be a Force-sensitive youngster who was abandoned by as a child by her parents, a couple of impoverished drunks who are now dead, and it's no big deal. That would've worked better for the new trilogy, I think.
But that's a very minor nitpick, and nowhere near enough to ruin TLJ for me, at any rate.

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Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:47 am
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Hipster Thor wrote:
There's another interesting point that DAMU brought up about the final conflict in the film between the First Order and Resistance. I like the idea of these two, once great powers in the galaxy, literally rolling around in the salt with no shame or reservation. The Resistance has burned all their resources, and the First Order has lost all dignity and decorum. It's animalistic. I wish the film drew more attention to the pathetic mess of the power struggle. They are reduced to insignificant specks on a useless planet in a huge galaxy where it's in question as to if it even matters who is in power anyway, or even how much power these people would even have. Which would tie in nicely in with Benecio Del Toro's character's philosophy (which the film draws attention to).


One thing I enjoyed, that I believe ties into this idea, is Kylo's current drive to just burn down the house. He's tired of this shit, and grown disillusioned with all the glorified crap both sides have blindly pledged themselves to. Kylo is more of a threat to The First Order as their leader than their enemy. The remnants of The Galactic Empire have become little more than the plaything of an angry child.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:34 pm
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Stu wrote:
I was fine with it because
Luke was obviously an inexperienced teacher at the time, and the fear of a possible, incredibly powerful dark-side Kylo was so overwhelmingly terrifying to him in that moment, because he had never before dealt with the possibility of accidentally creating a new Sith master. And after all, it's not like he didn't come to his senses and stop himself from killing Kylo in the end, anyway.


It still rubs me the wrong way. Why are Skywalkers so quick to opt for child murder? The new movies have left Kylo's upbringing too ambiguous for its own good. To me, The Last Jedi makes the galaxy's current predicament look like it was all Luke's fault, a direction I'm just not happy with.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:41 pm
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Spencie Returns wrote:

It still rubs me the wrong way. Why are Skywalkers so quick to opt for child murder? The new movies have left Kylo's upbringing too ambiguous for its own good. To me, The Last Jedi makes the galaxy's current predicament look like it was all Luke's fault, a direction I'm just not happy with.
I like it as a bit of tragic, self-fulfilling Jedi prophecy that Rey is now tasked with undoing (with Luke's help, of course), but to each his own.

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Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:46 pm
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Stu wrote:
I like it as a bit of tragic, self-fulfilling Jedi prophecy that Rey is now tasked with undoing (with Luke's help, of course), but to each his own.


It cracked me up that the only difference between Luke's version of the story and Kylo's version was that Kylo's recollection of events made Luke look like a full blown psychopath that planned on eating him afterward.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:00 pm
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Spencie Returns wrote:

It cracked me up that the only difference between Luke's version of the story and Kylo's version was that Kylo's recollection of events made Luke look like a full blown psychopath that planned on eating him afterward.



Ever since the accident, it doesn't take much for Hamill to make his face look monstrous. I think Hamill should be commended for taking a 30+ year hiatus from dramatic live-action, and then returning and just killing it performance wise. Were it not for Adam Driver, then best performance in the movie.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:15 pm
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OT but Adam Driver was in Logan Lucky which you should all see.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:18 pm
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Hipster Thor wrote:
Ever since the accident, it doesn't take much for Hamilton to make his face look monstrous.
I dunno Thor, I still think he looks okay:

Image

:D
ski petrol wrote:
OT but Adam Driver was in Logan Lucky which you should all see.
Agreed; a nice, against-type, blue collar-redneck performance on his part. Couldn't be more different than Kylo Ren, but that's part of what made it good.

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Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:29 pm
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DaMU wrote:

Unrelated: I also just love love love love

that Rey is just some goddamn girl.

Yeah, me too, assuming that it's true, this is a really nice turn for the character and the series.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:33 pm
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Spencie Returns wrote:

It still rubs me the wrong way. Why are Skywalkers so quick to opt for child murder? The new movies have left Kylo's upbringing too ambiguous for its own good. To me, The Last Jedi makes the galaxy's current predicament look like it was all Luke's fault, a direction I'm just not happy with.

I don't agree with that conclusion, in the sense that the movie makes the point, over and over again, that it was not Luke's fault and that Ren was what he was, the moment between he and Luke is unnecessary guilt for Luke, Luke comes to terms with that, confronts Ren (and thereby his own doubts), and can then die in peace, finally achieving the wisdom that has always eluded him throughout the arc of his character going back to the original Star Wars. I thought it was a very nice way to wrap up his arc.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:39 pm
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Spencie Returns wrote:

It cracked me up that the only difference between Luke's version of the story and Kylo's version was that Kylo's recollection of events made Luke look like a full blown psychopath that planned on eating him afterward.

Well, really, the version we're supposed to take as truth (Luke's version) is that Luke had a moment of fear and doubt which he quickly realized was wrong and Kylo just happened to wake up during that moment and saw it as an attack. Shit, for all he knew it could have just been some test, but he goes all red lightsaber.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:41 pm
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Stu wrote:
I dunno Thor, I still think he looks okay:

Image

:DAgreed; a nice, against-type, blue collar-redneck performance on his part. Couldn't be more different than Kylo Ren, but that's part of what made it good.


Good review.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:43 pm
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Wooley wrote:
Well, really, the version we're supposed to take as truth (Luke's version) is that Luke had a moment of fear and doubt which he quickly realized was wrong and Kylo just happened to wake up during that moment and saw it as an attack. Shit, for all he knew it could have just been some test, but he goes all red lightsaber.


I wouldn't say that either of them are lying, it's just that through the lense of a scared kid, Luke looked more menacing. But I also found it funny that Luke's version naturally tacks on, "I wasn't going to actually do it!"


Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:07 pm
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Stu wrote:
While I agree that that was probably the best decision Johnson could've made on that front, I still feel that, at this point,
the Star Wars saga has done the whole "secret relative reveal" thing so many times that, "subverting" that with Rey's parentage isn't that big of a, well, subversion, as that particular zig-instead-of-zag feels almost just as predictable as the alternative. I guess I have to give Rion some credit for not doing the most obvious thing in the world and have Rey be Luke's daughter, or Kylo Ren's long-lost twin sister or something, but it isn't much; when Kylo broke the truth to us, I was just thinking "Okay, that isn't all that interesting a subversion... whatever, I guess". The best way to have gone about it, in my opinion, would have been to never built up Rey's family to be some sort of big "mystery", either in this or in Force Awakens at all, but to convey it the second we first meet her, or at least as soon as suits the film; Rey just so happens to be a Force-sensitive youngster who was abandoned by as a child by her parents, a couple of impoverished drunks who are now dead, and it's no big deal. That would've worked better for the new trilogy, I think.
But that's a very minor nitpick, and nowhere near enough to ruin TLJ for me, at any rate.


yeah same. JJ loves those darn Mystery Boxes! although one thing I kinda like about the reveal is that

it's not as if Rey doesn't know who her parents are and that the info is being kept from the audience through strategic info-withholding bullshit. she does know deep down who her parents are (as in their character) but wants to find them because there's hope that she had it all wrong, that they didn't abandon her for selfish reasons, that they aren't bad people. maybe some part of this conflict could have been portrayed a bit better in the Abrams movie if Abrams wasn't so hot to Get to The Falcon! so we can Have a TIE Fighter Battle! and then Get to See Han Solo! but whatev....


Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:25 pm
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My friend's biggest gripe is how that stuff is tossed aside. He didn't like it. I loved it. I want Star Wars to be ever changing. I don't want it to be one thing. If you want that you can go watch the prequels cuz those are almost indistinguishable from each other.


Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:56 pm
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