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 NAMELESS watches THE PREQUELS :( 
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Now that I have your attention... I have come to the conclusion that I am thoroughly out of touch with this world and that the one cure is watching the Star Wars prequel trilogy. Why? The Last Jedi... how can a Star Wars (!!!) movie be THIS bad, why am I wrong for disliking it because of today's political climate, and ultimately... is it worse than the prequels? I haven't seen Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith since theaters so... literally forever ago. Shit was weird then, like, I was FIFTEEN when I saw Revenge of the Sith, I was getting into drugs and who knows what exactly my mind saw when it determined, without a shadow of a doubt, that Revenge of the Sith was the first objectively bad movie I had seen in my life. So here we find ourselves today as I embark on my journey of truth, starting off with a movie which my brain thinks it enjoys, The Phantom Menace. That one I'm sure is better than The Last Jedi, it just has to be, but it's Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith where I really start questioning everything

This is an ongoing thread open to discussion. What are YOUR thoughts on The Last Jedi and the prequels? It may be entire WEEKS before I get around to Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith so I dunno, if you have to you can also discuss current events and Dondal Tromp and how he relates to Star Wars


Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:34 am
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Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:56 am
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I found The Phantom Menace to be the middle point for the Prequels. Neither was it as good and dark as Revenge of the Sith, nor was it as bad and pointless as Attack of the Clones.

Yeah, Jake Lloyd wasn't that good as Anakin and there was too much Jar Jar. But I can't hate a film that manages to juggle three different plots in the third act. Nor one that introduced us to sinister Darth Maul.


Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:04 am
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Watching the Anakin v Kenobi fight some time ago I came to the conclusion that the prequels are about two guys who can't have each other.

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Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:02 am
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Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:27 am
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I will never watch them again. I just got better things to do.


Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:37 am
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Editing the prequels into my Neon Noir fan edit really fucked up and upturned my ranking and understanding of them. I used to feel that RoTS was clearly the best, Phantom in the middle.and Clones at the bottom.

Now, I think Clones is easily the best, with Sith being the sloppiest of them and botches every single important plot point, and Phantom being utterly pointless. Clones is the only one to have a fairly straightforward plot that tries to blend a new genre into the mix (mystery) that has coherent beats. It's chock-full of unnecessary terrible but that was easily extricated. RoTS was like playing Jenga with almost every weight bearing block being a piece of shit.


Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:13 am
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I guess I can sum up my problems with the prequels in 3 or 4 issues.

1) the CGI is excessive and distracting. Think about the underwater scenes and the final battle in Phantom Menace, or the arena battle in Attack of the Clones, and the final duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan. And so many CGI characters that could've been made with practical effects. It detracts from the visual experience and makes many of the performances and scenes to feel clunky.

2) there are some solid performances, but little to no chemistry between the leads. This is a direct contrast to the OT where there are few good/great performances but lots of chemistry. They try to push the pairing of Anakin/Padmé/Obi-Wan as equals to Luke/Leia/Han, but they never reach that level of comfortability on screen.

3) there seems to be a clash between Lucas' desire to evoke the same childhood magic of the OT and his more adult leanings. The plots wander from being too convoluted and scattered to too silly and juvenile. The same might apply to the scope and how Lucas tries to capture the effects of these political turmoils and battles in the whole universe/galaxy in the prequels vs. how he kept the plot grounded on just a group of rebels and one or two planets. Everything ends up feeling disjointed and messy.

A possible fourth, which might be more of a nit-pick, would be the anachronism between the technologies of the prequels (which takes place in the "past") versus the technologies we see in the OT. I mean, how hard would've been to keep that synchronicity instead of wanting to show up with too many flash and bangs?

Those are probably my 3-4 main issues, without getting into the little details (the midi-chlorians? Jar-Jar Binks?), or the poor dialogue, or how rushed things feel in the last act of Revenge of the Sith.


...and FWIW, I loved The Last Jedi :shifty:

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Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:18 am
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ah geez, I've posted so much about Star Wars already.

in spite of all the critical drubbing, the big Star Wars toy/collectable companies are still making product from those movies (albeit not as often as back in 1999-2006) so I'd assume they still have a decent number of fans. or at least people who don't dislike them as much as the rest of us. and if people still like them, then hey I'm not gonna tell them they shouldn't.


Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:31 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Editing the prequels into my Neon Noir fan edit really fucked up and upturned my ranking and understanding of them. I used to feel that RoTS was clearly the best, Phantom in the middle.and Clones at the bottom.

Now, I think Clones is easily the best, with Sith being the sloppiest of them and botches every single important plot point, and Phantom being utterly pointless. Clones is the only one to have a fairly straightforward plot that tries to blend a new genre into the mix (mystery) that has coherent beats. It's chock-full of unnecessary terrible but that was easily extricated. RoTS was like playing Jenga with almost every weight bearing block being a piece of shit.


While I can appreciate you finding something of interest once you personally waded into the murk of Clones and pulled out something not entirely soulless and irrelevant that was laying somewhere deep inside of it, the fact that it is the worst movie that's ever been made still stands.


Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:10 pm
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I've been pretty good at blocking out the worst parts of these movies from memory so I mostly judge them now based on their set pieces. TPM and ROTS have a handful of good ones between them (namely the lightsaber duels) but all I can remember from AOTC is that fuckin' Yoda bouncing ball nonsense. Ok, I haven't been that good at blocking out the worst parts.

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Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:14 pm
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crumbsroom wrote:

While I can appreciate you finding something of interest once you personally waded into the murk of Clones and pulled out something not entirely soulless and irrelevant that was laying somewhere deep inside of it, the fact that it is the worst movie that's ever been made still stands.


The think is, it's not deep inside it. It's right there but sewn together with a bunch of mind boggling nonsense. There's entire sequences that simple clipping, deletion and ripple deletes created completely coherent and solidly done sequences. For instance, when Anakin and Padme arrive on Geonosis, there's a pretty decent horror-tinged ambush by aliens in the wall. However, clearly added in reshoots/post, they keep intercutting in reaction shots to R2 and 3PO. They obviously don't belong in the sequence and they're tacked on with little to no effort to hide the seams.

It would be like adding the reactions of the black cop from Samurai Cop to virtually any human interaction in Lethal Weapon. You might trick someone into thinking they belong but anyone who looks at the footage for longer than three seconds can't figure out why it was ever added at all. Of course, that guy's reactions are gold and would have improved Lethal Weapon so fuck that comparison.

You ever watch my edit?


Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:07 pm
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Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:41 pm
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Damn good thread so far and I haven't even watched a Star Wars! Today is Phantom Menace day


Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 am
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FYI: the voice of Darth Maul

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Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:20 am
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This is exciting, I've heard a lot about this Star War series, eager to read some internet content on the subject.

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Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:46 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:

The think is, it's not deep inside it. It's right there but sewn together with a bunch of mind boggling nonsense. There's entire sequences that simple clipping, deletion and ripple deletes created completely coherent and solidly done sequences. For instance, when Anakin and Padme arrive on Geonosis, there's a pretty decent horror-tinged ambush by aliens in the wall. However, clearly added in reshoots/post, they keep intercutting in reaction shots to R2 and 3PO. They obviously don't belong in the sequence and they're tacked on with little to no effort to hide the seams.

It would be like adding the reactions of the black cop from Samurai Cop to virtually any human interaction in Lethal Weapon. You might trick someone into thinking they belong but anyone who looks at the footage for longer than three seconds can't figure out why it was ever added at all. Of course, that guy's reactions are gold and would have improved Lethal Weapon so fuck that comparison.

You ever watch my edit?


The problem is it wasn't you who directed Attack of the Clones, unfortunately George Lucas did and he needs to remain accountable for all of the dogfucking he did to that movie. He shouldn't be allowed to have someone else point him in a better direction with their fan edit to absolve him. His mistakes were continuous and unforgivable. The movie he made is the absolute inverse of anything valuable that can be found in art. I don't disbelieve that maybe the gleam of worth was just a few scratches beneath the surface, but the fact that Lucas couldn't find it himself, means something. The errors in Samaurai Cop, as you rightly point out, are what makes that movie wonderful. Lucas' errors distract entirely from anything that might be of value. His vision is what was filled with all of that soulless, ugly crap. His vision is what I evaluate. It is one of the very few movies I consider unwatchable, and coming from me, that really says something.

I don't believe I saw your entire edit, but I think I saw a good chunk of it. Whatever I saw though was a distinct and obvious improvement. The fact that you could cobble something with style out from the synthetic rubble of Clones is impressive. It probably didn't deserve the care you brought to it.


Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:39 am
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Death Proof wrote:
FYI: the voice of Darth Maul


and a good storyteller



Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:11 am
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Death Proof wrote:
FYI: the voice of Darth Maul
He did a bang up job on those two lines. For some reason I had distinct memory of Darth Maul having zero dialog so hearing him speak freaked me out


Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:23 am
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I feel like enough time has passed, enough zeitgeists come and gone, for the prequels to... breath. Harry's probably dead so why not take his mantle and... create a defense of the prequels? I mean, I'm only going to do this if they are good and, dammit, The Phantom Menace is good, and so are most of the things people find bad about it. For one, Jar Jar Binks is like this God of chaos who has this wacky character arc where he literally becomes the big detriment to the Republic leading to it's collapse and fucks everything up for everyone... it's amazing, but that stuff comes later when I get into anime

This movie is so anime. George Lucas is a huge nerd and I love him, I feel really bad that his vision got so trampled on here. It reminds me a lot of Hideaki Anno and Evangelion where his growing disillusionment regarding his fanbase led to End of Evangelion as almost a punishment towards the people who used to revere him... for all the wrong reasons but revere him nonetheless. This is Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, I just know it is and I'm going to watch them from that punishment angle as a response for George's sooooo sincere The Phantom Menace getting trampled on by fans. A ginormous mega budget fuck you of the likes we just weren't prepared for

I feel like everyone gave it their all in this production, the art is wild, the ambition is present, and the technology holds up surprisingly well. The pod race was magnificent, the final conflict with Duel of the Fates blaring was epic, the story beats were genuinely interesting from a Star Wars nerd's perspective. I love midichlorians, again, anime as fuck in how everything has a layered backstory to it. There were a few funky lines of dialog but generally it was a well crafted screenplay, certainly no The Last Jedi yeesh. Some of the performances were wonky but these people are pioneers acting in environments previously unknown... giant green screens! Again, it was such a sincere effort, I applaud everyone involved

So, ultimately, is it better than The Last Jedi? Yes and no, I feel like The Last Jedi's highs are more high while it's lows are much lower so it's tough to balance out. You can split The Last Jedi into things that are good and things that are bad rather easily and I'll get into that as this thread moves along


Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:50 am
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Death Proof wrote:
FYI: the voice of Darth Maul

Image

Wait, who's that guy who thinks he's in The Shining?


Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:53 pm
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crumbsroom wrote:

The problem is it wasn't you who directed Attack of the Clones, unfortunately George Lucas did and he needs to remain accountable for all of the dogfucking he did to that movie. He shouldn't be allowed to have someone else point him in a better direction with their fan edit to absolve him. His mistakes were continuous and unforgivable. The movie he made is the absolute inverse of anything valuable that can be found in art. I don't disbelieve that maybe the gleam of worth was just a few scratches beneath the surface, but the fact that Lucas couldn't find it himself, means something. The errors in Samaurai Cop, as you rightly point out, are what makes that movie wonderful. Lucas' errors distract entirely from anything that might be of value. His vision is what was filled with all of that soulless, ugly crap. His vision is what I evaluate. It is one of the very few movies I consider unwatchable, and coming from me, that really says something.

I don't believe I saw your entire edit, but I think I saw a good chunk of it. Whatever I saw though was a distinct and obvious improvement. The fact that you could cobble something with style out from the synthetic rubble of Clones is impressive. It probably didn't deserve the care you brought to it.

Honestly, I could not possibly agree with this more.
One of the most brutal arguments against Lucas is that every fan edit of the prequels is better than the movies he actually made.
Once he reached the point that no one could filter him anymore, the weaknesses that almost prevented him from becoming a known filmmaker in the first place, had not his more established friends stuck up for him, leap from the screen and dominate the viewer. By all accounts, American Graffiti, THX1138, and even Star Wars itself would have been disasters if other people hadn't worked hard on what he shot to turn them from disasters into quality pictures. Take that away due to absurd levels of success and you have movies that once again are straight-up bad but can be edited into decent possibly even good movies by other people, even (no offense) amateurs.
Lucas is simply NOT a complete filmmaker and he never was. He always needed other people in prominent roles (Marcia Lucas, Spielberg, even Coppola, and Kershner) to realize his visions. When he got so big he thought he didn't need them anymore, he basically couldn't make a decent movie to save his life.


Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:57 pm
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The Nameless One wrote:
He did a bang up job on those two lines. For some reason I had distinct memory of Darth Maul having zero dialog so hearing him speak freaked me out



He's also the roommate of Shaun of the Dead who turns into a zombie.

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Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:25 pm
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Death Proof wrote:


He's also the roommate of Shaun of the Dead who turns into a zombie.
Peter Serafinowicz? Dude's a champ


Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:34 am
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The Nameless One wrote:
Peter Serafinowicz? Dude's a champ


He's far better as the new Tick that I expected due to my staunch Wharburton bias.


Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:30 am
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The prequels may be historic misfires, but the Disney batch has made me appreciate their authenticity. Disney is just impatiently passing the franchise around to random talent, hoping someone might throw in the secret ingredient.

It's funny how the prequels' failings almost mirror that of the new movies. Where episodes I-III are stilted and dumb, the new movies are gorgeous and slick. Where the new saga films feel aimless and empty, the prequels were drowning you in unhinged ideas. If forced to pick a poison, I prefer the iconically bad prequels as opposed to the overproduced sequels. The new movies are just smug, cryptic nonsense, spinning their wheels in a bid to stay relevant. The prequels are just the blockbuster equivalent of B-movies that should never be revered nor forgotten.

Star Wars, as a whole, is pretty much the poster child for wasted potential.


Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:16 am
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Spencie Returns wrote:
The prequels may be historic misfires, but the Disney batch has made me appreciate their authenticity. Disney is just impatiently passing the franchise around to random talent, hoping someone might throw in the secret ingredient.

It's funny how the prequels' failings almost mirror that of the new movies. Where episodes I-III are stilted and dumb, the new movies are gorgeous and slick. Where the new saga films feel aimless and empty, the prequels were drowning you in unhinged ideas. If forced to pick a poison, I prefer the iconically bad prequels as opposed to the overproduced sequels. The new movies are just smug, cryptic nonsense, spinning their wheels in a bid to stay relevant. The prequels are just the blockbuster equivalent of B-movies that should never be revered nor forgotten.

Star Wars, as a whole, is pretty much the poster child for wasted potential.


aye, I've attributed this (plus a little bit of nostalgia and the parallels the story has had with our current political scene) as the main reason why the prequels have enjoyed a bit of favorable critical re-evaluation in recent days. and I kinda sorta agree but then actually watching the dang movies just reminds me how ineptly made they are.

Reverse Shot's review of TFA makes this comparison as well:

With The Force Awakens, Abrams—along with coscreenwriters Michael Arndt and original trilogy legacy carryover Lawrence Kasdan (scribe on both The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi)—emulates the movements of previous Star Wars installments so closely it’s as if he’s fearful of getting penalized for falling out of step, as in a game of Guitar Hero. They engineer a viewing experience that can be satisfying and rewarding to spectators familiar with the franchise, if also uncanny to the point of déjà vu. The familiarity extends from shots and gimmicks—an opening salvo of a space vessel eclipsing the sky, a hero traversing a desert landscape with a sun setting in the background, the beeps and gargles of an anthropomorphized robot, a surfeit of wipe cuts—to character, plot, and structure. Though officially a sequel to Return of the Jedi, The Force Awakens often plays like a reboot, much like Ryan Coogler’s recent Creed. There’s a bad guy in a dark mask with a stentorian rumble (Adam Driver’s Kylo Ren), a hotshot fighter pilot in a cool leather jacket (Isaac’s Poe Dameron even steals Han Solo’s lines), and a young and naïve orphan with mysterious, miraculous powers (Daisy Ridley’s Rey) who encounters an adorable little droid harboring a secret that can save the universe. There’s a manmade planet that has the power to destroy other planets, a rescue mission to save a distressed damsel that can take care of herself just fine thank you very much, a father-son showdown on a bridge over a synthetic abyss, and friendships quickly forged before they’re just as quickly strained by separation. The franchise now aims to speak only its own language, such that any unfamiliar notes—uncharacteristic instances of blood, the odd smash zoom—seem off instead of interesting or novel.

That a Star Wars film functions as a recycling machine is hardly out of character, but what began, in Lucas’s first incarnation, as a fantasyland cobbled together from outside sources (Buck Rogers, King Arthur, Akira Kurosawa, Silent Running, Triumph of the Will) now mostly borrows from inside of its own world. There’s still some old Hollywood hokum bleeding through the burgeoning Luke and Han-like friendship between Poe and Finn in The Force Awakens, and there’s generally more original trilogy-grade nostalgia to this installment than in Lucas’s prequels, which, with their enthusiasm for advanced digital effects and realizing their maker’s previously impossible dreams, were more forward focused. I kept waiting for a moment that would bring meaning to this feeling of infinite return, a forceful indicator that there’s philosophical depth to these echoes through generations of trilogies and the viewers who love them. But it never arrived, at least not to my satisfaction. There’s no idea behind the new film’s echoes of the past, outside of making those echoes feel pleasurable—be they Ford’s begrudging summoning of his Solo-era charms, the brassy triumphalism of John Williams’s transporting score, or the perennial joys of robots cavorting with a man in a bear suit. Abrams brings to this film more humanity, and a greater appreciation for his performers, than Lucas managed for all three of the prequels combined. That goes a long way toward making his entertainment click, and furthermore toward making us care. I’m just not sure what we’re caring about, other than the furtherance of Star Wars itself.

For all of its sins, which are very, very, very, very many, The Phantom Menace had a captain, and it was fueled by ideas. Well over a decade after he concluded the original trilogy, Lucas had a vision for what revisiting this universe he had drummed up might look and feel like with the benefit of digital technology, and had a slew of new notions for how to populate and define it. They weren’t particularly good ideas. In fact they were mostly bad, dramatically inert, visually ossified ideas, filled with inexplicable logic, deadening self-seriousness, misunderstandings and mishandlings of what made his own creation compelling, bad writing, worse directing, floundering acting, and endless expository passages about taxes, senates, and genetics. It was like watching a magician listlessly explain what’s awesome about the art of illusion without making magic happen anew. Yet the films emerged from the inside out, and its maker worked passionately to realize them. After abstaining from directing and writing for over two decades, he wrote, directed, produced and financed all three movies. That he became the problem in most estimations—that he shouldn’t have directed, he shouldn’t have written, he should have let other voices and ideas challenge his own—points to a failure in execution, but not in provenance, nor in integrity. That you could blame Lucas for the failings of those movies only proved how much they belonged to him.

By contrast, The Force Awakens belongs to a corporation. It is a product meant to make good on an investment. Disney purchased a property from Lucas, and made a movie related to that property in order to start recouping its outlay. The best way to recoup that outlay was to very carefully and deliberately court and flatter a fan base that has kept the Star Wars brand popular for 38 years and counting; to guarantee that no floppy-eared CGI alien minstrel show will embarrass and shame everyone in sight, that there will be no bogged-down weirdness about midi-chlorians or intergalactic trade agreements, no thespians in bathrobes barely tolerating pantomiming swordplay in front of a green screen (disregarding the fact that those missteps still led to a half-billion box office haul in 1999); to make certain that this new thing is nothing but a sure thing; to make this corporate product at least seem like a public trust—counteracting Lucas’s failure to understand that this is what his creation had evolved into, in effect if not in actuality. There’s no WTF in The Force Awakens because WTF can’t be afforded. It’s smart business, but it’s not an idea—quite the opposite, actually. First comes economics, and then you hired some artists, and then, maybe, you make some art. Any ideas or inspirations come further down the line, in whatever any of the participants might bring to certain aspects of the enterprise. None of this need invalidate what the film winds up being, but it does inform, and to a large degree define it.


Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:20 am
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The Force Awakens and Solo are so far above the prequels, I can't fathom preferring the prequels in any metric. It's like choosing a homemade burger covered in salmonella and ecoli over a well prepared fast food burger because it wasn't made with love. I can't abide choosing diarrhea.

The Last Jedi is a fast food burger that gives diarrhea.


Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:34 am
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I can't even imagine spending the time to watch Solo, it seems so pointless of a thing. The Force Awakens is good but I have no real intention of watching it again, it's kinda derivative and I think it has more problems than what's it's worth in terms of quality. The Phantom Menace, in contrast, is fascinating... I resonate with Spencie's point there. It's so jampacked with ideas where The Force Awakens plays it all too safe. George Lucas has balls


Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:02 pm
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
The Last Jedi is a fast food burger that gives diarrhea.


This is about as apt a summary of The Last Jedi as I'll ever read.

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Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:19 pm
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AOTC sucks. I don't mind TPM. I will keep defending ROTS as the second best SW movie until I watch the whole series again and change my mind. Or I think its third best I can't remember.

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Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:54 pm
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Young Han Solo could have maybe been more fun it were an 'average day in the life of Han Solo' kind of movie. it would still be a pointless movie but potentially less lame. I don't care how get met Chewie or how he met Lando or how he got the Falcon or how he got started with Jabba. none of that crap. maybe throw Josh Holloway in there somewhere, he should have been Woody Harrelson's character anyway. not that it would have changed the overall quality much.


Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:46 pm
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Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
Young Han Solo could have maybe been more fun it were an 'average day in the life of Han Solo' kind of movie. it would still be a pointless movie but potentially less lame. I don't care how get met Chewie or how he met Lando or how he got the Falcon or how he got started with Jabba. none of that crap. maybe throw Josh Holloway in there somewhere, he should have been Woody Harrelson's character anyway. not that it would have changed the overall quality much.


I haven't seen it, but this is more or less my reasoning. It seems like a pointless exercise, an unnecessary pit-stop.

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Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:48 am
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Solo is as necessary as the prequels and Rogue One. Unlike them, it's a well made, charming space romp that feels like classic Star Wars


Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:51 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Solo is as necessary as the prequels and Rogue One. Unlike them, it's a well made, charming space romp that feels like classic Star Wars


All this thread is a vivid example of how different people perceive, receive, and embrace things. Like with The Last Jedi, or as you can see here, any of the prequels. I find it really interesting to see this polarizing reactions.

Obviously, I can't speak for Solo because, like I said, I haven't seen it (I probably will see it one of these days). But the thing is I really loved Rogue One. Seriously loved it. I thought it was a carefully crafted bridge to gap from the PT to the OT, I thought there was utmost care taken in making it feel cohesive with the OT, I thought it was appropriately poignant and somber, and I thought it added depth to many of the events that happen in the whole series. I said it in another thread, but it's probably my #3 or #4 favorite Star Wars films.

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Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:56 am
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Thief wrote:

All this thread is a vivid example of how different people perceive, receive, and embrace things. Like with The Last Jedi, or as you can see here, any of the prequels. I find it really interesting to see this polarizing reactions.

Obviously, I can't speak for Solo because, like I said, I haven't seen it (I probably will see it one of these days). But the thing is I really loved Rogue One. Seriously loved it. I thought it was a carefully crafted bridge to gap from the PT to the OT, I thought there was utmost care taken in making it feel cohesive with the OT, I thought it was appropriately poignant and somber, and I thought it added depth to many of the events that happen in the whole series. I said it in another thread, but it's probably my #3 or #4 favorite Star Wars films.


If you can appreciate those elements of Rogue One, then you should appreciate Solo. It does all of that but maintains the adventurous tone of the OT. I like Rogue One and love parts. I do think it's totally dissimilar and the characters lack sufficient charm/depth/personality but I believe it's scale and spectacle are among the best the franchise has to offer.

I think Solo has many similar strengths but it's characters and interpretations of past characters are all pretty damn strong and it does what Star Wars does well, blends other genres into it. While RO goes the War film route ( Solo has elements of that as well), it goes the heist/crime style and makes them feel organic. I'm a big Solo fan. It's now on Netflix so all you have to lose is some time.


Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:36 am
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MadMan wrote:
AOTC sucks. I don't mind TPM. I will keep defending ROTS as the second best SW movie until I watch the whole series again and change my mind. Or I think its third best I can't remember.


I think Sith is my third or fourth best Star Wars film, depending on what I think about The Force Awakens.


Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:34 am
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Apex Predator wrote:

I think Sith is my third or fourth best Star Wars film, depending on what I think about The Force Awakens.


To me, ROTS is the best of the prequels, which might not mean much, but it's still a weak film. My main gripe is that everything feels so rushed, so frantic, and not in a good, organic way. I think that the whole Anakin breaking bad and the execution of the Jedis needed a bit more time to breathe and have more of a punch. But I think this frenetic outburst is more noticeable in the last act, where you can feel Lucas is running out of time to tie loose ends and put out everything he wanted to tie the PT to the OT.

Also, the final duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan is a wasted opportunity where Lucas could've gone small scale and personal to emphasize the internal fight between the two, but chose to go too grandiose and bombastic with them jumping around and hopping around this lava-like/green-wall CGI-fest that strips the duel of all its potential, emotional effect.

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Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:03 am
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I think Sith is the best of the prequels if were not including Rogue One.


Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:31 am
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Ace wrote:
I think Sith is the best of the prequels if were not including Rogue One.


I don't count it among the prequels.

Since we're all talking about rankings, here's mine...

EXCELLENT
The Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars

I keep going back and forth between these two.

PRETTY GOOD
The Last Jedi
Rogue One

SOME FLAWS, BUT GOOD
Return of the Jedi
The Force Awakens

EHH... NOT BAD, BUT COULD'VE BEEN WAY BETTER
Revenge of the Sith

BAD, DESPITE SOME SCATTERED GOOD MOMENTS
The Phantom Menace

JUST BAD
Attack of the Clones

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Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:36 am
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Thief wrote:

I don't count it among the prequels.

Since we're all talking about rankings, here's mine...

EXCELLENT
The Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars

I keep going back and forth between these two.

PRETTY GOOD
The Last Jedi
Rogue One

SOME FLAWS, BUT GOOD
Return of the Jedi
The Force Awakens

EHH... NOT BAD, BUT COULD'VE BEEN WAY BETTER
Revenge of the Sith

BAD, DESPITE SOME SCATTERED GOOD MOMENTS
The Phantom Menace

JUST BAD
Attack of the Clones



That's pretty much the same order I have. :up:

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Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:58 am
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Mine would look similar too, except if I could include it, I'd rank the Auralnauts Star Wars re-dub just below the top two.

Of course, if you want to skip to the best, someone compiled all the clips of their immortal version of 3PO, aka Creepio.

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Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:02 am
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ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Solo is as necessary as the prequels and Rogue One. Unlike them, it's a well made, charming space romp that feels like classic Star Wars

I more or less agree. Maybe it was lowered expectations, but I thought that it was as fun as any of the other new SW films, and certainly not worse.


Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:09 am
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Thief wrote:

But the thing is I really loved Rogue One. Seriously loved it. I thought it was a carefully crafted bridge to gap from the PT to the OT, I thought there was utmost care taken in making it feel cohesive with the OT, I thought it was appropriately poignant and somber, and I thought it added depth to many of the events that happen in the whole series. I said it in another thread, but it's probably my #3 or #4 favorite Star Wars films.

And this definitely will make your argument about polarizing. I thought it was terrible, I was not really interested in even finishing it but I'd hauled my cookies to the theater for it, and it was really the beginning of the end for me with Star Wars (I did not even see Solo at home on my couch and have no interest in seeing anymore Star Wars movies).
So you are definitely right, these movies can polarize.


Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:57 am
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Thief wrote:

ROTS is ... still a weak film. My main gripe is that everything feels so rushed, so frantic, and not in a good, organic way. I think that the whole Anakin breaking bad and the execution of the Jedis needed a bit more time to breathe and have more of a punch. But I think this frenetic outburst is more noticeable in the last act, where you can feel Lucas is running out of time to tie loose ends and put out everything he wanted to tie the PT to the OT.

Also, the final duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan is a wasted opportunity where Lucas could've gone small scale and personal to emphasize the internal fight between the two, but chose to go too grandiose and bombastic with them jumping around and hopping around this lava-like/green-wall CGI-fest that strips the duel of all its potential, emotional effect.

And yet here we agree completely.


Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:59 am
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If we're ranking, I would go something like this I suspect:

The Good:

Star Wars
The Empire Strikes Back
Return Of The Jedi
The Force Awakens


Movies I Will Never Watch Again (in order of how least to most painful it would be to watch them again):

Rogue One
The Last Jedi = Revenge Of The Sith
The Phantom Menace
Attack Of The Clones


Didn't bother with Solo.


Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:04 am
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Wooley wrote:
So you are definitely right, these movies can polarize.


nostalgia can really bring out the passion sometimes


Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:50 am
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Jinnistan wrote:
I more or less agree. Maybe it was lowered expectations, but I thought that it was as fun as any of the other new SW films, and certainly not worse.


I think despite it's troubled production, it's one of the few that feels like it has a cohesive vision driving it. Given Ron Howard's Lucas connection and his penchant for workman, competent filmmaking, he proved a far better match for what the franchise does very well than the other grab bag of quirk, Indie sensibilities and franchise builders that make up the others tapped for it. While I prefer Lord and Miller as filmmakers, I question whether they could have made a film that felt more Star Wars.

It's just such a curious thing that it turned out the way it did. The seams are far more visible in Rogue One, with it's start stop start stop first act that introduces and reintroduces characters and plot elements and it's strange handling of prominent characters.

Solo was the Star Wars film I didn't want and had the worst expectations for but even on a rewatch, I've enjoyed it for the popcorn entertainment that is Star Wars as a whole.


Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:58 am
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Fiiiiiiine, I'll watch Solo: A Solo Han Solo Star Wars Story at the end of this miserable trudge into George Lucas's dark side. Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, The Last Jedi, Solo... I may die


Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:48 am
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I probably would have enjoyed Young Han Solo a bit more if I didn't find the cinematography to be so lousy. and I don't doubt it had something to do with making sure the original and reshot footage fit together (plus hiding any unfinished sets, CGI, etc.).


Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:06 pm
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