I merely said that I am not sure about this film. And I'm not.ThatDarnMKS wrote:That’s a fairly negligible difference when discussing the joy of not having a background. I would argue that giving him a gangster background is even more simplistic and devoid of any particular depths if you’re worried about “apologetic” stripping it of potency. The flick also devotes its whole first half to Jack becoming the Joker and starting his life as the clown prince of crime. In many ways, Batman is already a Joker origin story.
I don’t see how being the focus does much to refute that he does have an origin story (the crux of your initial point, which is what I addressed).
Where exactly is this criticism? It’s heralded widely as the best single issue of Batman, one of Moore’s masterpieces and was of enough importance to be “the one” that could pull Hammil out of retirement to its regard. I’m going to need some qualifying on that claim as any controversy I’ve seen deals with accusations of misogyny in its handling of Batgirl (which aren’t unfounded). The story, however IS “apologetic” and highly influential. I can’t see criticizing the film on this basis due to the ubiquity of TKJ’s influence on the character.
You’re also assuming that this film, even with its strong Scorsese influence, won’t have a confessional narrative structure.
What histrionics did you see in Phoenix’s approach, or really in any of his acclaimed performances? Ledger was great but your claims and fears are pretty unfounded given that Romero, Nicholson and Hammill had all previously killed in their respective performances before he ever uttered a laugh. It’s a great character. Great characters draw great actors. You brought up Hannibal. Cox was perfectly great in his version only to have Hopkins give the big grandiose performance that people identify with the character. Neither prevented Mikkelson from carving out his own, wildly different but excellent interpretation of the character.
Leto sucking is a hiccup and hardly indicative of the general legacy of portraying the character.
Phoenix damn near ruined his career with methody hijinks in "I'm still here."
This is the sort of role that lures in all the scenery-chewers who want to plant their flag (e.g., Leto sending dead rodents to co-stars in Suicide Squad).
Again, the Joker doesn't have an origin story, but rather origin stories. And only one of the stories you mention is a full on origin story narrative (Killing Joke)--again, this isn't to say that it can't be done, but I have my concerns.