Recently Seen

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ThatDarnMKS
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:31 pm

Slentert wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:10 pm
I think it probably is one of the worst MCU films. I liked the trailer for Far From Home, so I had a tiny bit of hope, but considering everyone's reactions to it, I'm quite certain I won't like it either.
The only way I see myself seeing it in a theater is if my friends would ask me to come along, like with most Marvel movies.
Why did you think it was among the worst?
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Patrick McGroin » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:06 pm

I liked Homecoming and will probably like Far From Home. But it's still so refreshing hearing anyone say anything remotely bad about Marvel.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Rock » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:33 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:31 pm
Why did you think it was among the worst?
I am not Slentert but Homecoming felt like an overblown after school special. I don't mind these movies dialing down their scale, but it seemed a little excessive to dedicate a whole movie to teaching Spider-Man how to be responsible. I thought he was much better handled in Civil War and Infinity War (even though I didn't care for the latter overall).
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:34 am

Rock wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:33 am
I am not Slentert but Homecoming felt like an overblown after school special. I don't mind these movies dialing down their scale, but it seemed a little excessive to dedicate a whole movie to teaching Spider-Man how to be responsible. I thought he was much better handled in Civil War and Infinity War (even though I didn't care for the latter overall).
How do you delineate between Spider-man comics origin and after school special?
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Rock » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:56 am

Do I need to? I'm not in love with the Raimi films or anything, but they felt way more substantive than this.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:19 am

Rock wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:56 am
Do I need to? I'm not in love with the Raimi films or anything, but they felt way more substantive than this.
I'd say so, as much as there's any need for any film criticism or analysis. I'd argue Vulture has a far more complex characterization that any of the Raimi villains and Peter learning a life lesson through his super-heroics is as integral to his character and the source as having super powers. There's a reason "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" echoes throughout every iteration, whether said explicitly or not.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Death Proof » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:07 am

Now You See Me - 9/10

Mandy - Nick Cage/10

This could have been made by Carpenter in the 80's after a coke-fueled binge one weekend. Instead it was made by Panos Cosmatos, which is the exact name you'd think of for a guy who would make this movie. This may be Cage's greatest over the top performance. That includes The Wicker Man, The Bad Lieutenant, Face/Off and Con Air.

In short, this is the greatest Nicholas Cage movie ever made. I can now die as a better human being for having witnessed this piece of cinema. And I need to change my shorts.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Rock » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:43 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:19 am
I'd say so, as much as there's any need for any film criticism or analysis. I'd argue Vulture has a far more complex characterization that any of the Raimi villains and Peter learning a life lesson through his super-heroics is as integral to his character and the source as having super powers. There's a reason "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" echoes throughout every iteration, whether said explicitly or not.
I guess where I draw the line is that I need an adequate level of stakes for Spider-Man. I think there's a wide gulf between Parker losing his uncle and getting his sense of responsibility as an outcome of that in Raimi's first movie (which didn't need to go all grimdark to handle that material) and Parker learning it's okay to be lame and not have to try so hard to be cool in Homecoming. I get that you can't keep killing Uncle Ben every movie, but Homecoming felt obnoxiously safe, especially compared to the best superhero movie in years, Into The Spider-Verse.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Rock » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:48 am

Rock wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:43 am
Into The Spider-Verse.
Hot damn, what a movie.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:36 am

Rock wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:43 am
I guess where I draw the line is that I need an adequate level of stakes for Spider-Man. I think there's a wide gulf between Parker losing his uncle and getting his sense of responsibility as an outcome of that in Raimi's first movie (which didn't need to go all grimdark to handle that material) and Parker learning it's okay to be lame and not have to try so hard to be cool in Homecoming. I get that you can't keep killing Uncle Ben every movie, but Homecoming felt obnoxiously safe, especially compared to the best superhero movie in years, Into The Spider-Verse.
That's a fairly reductive reading of Homecoming to the point of being insulting to the film. I can't think of a scene of more potent vulnerability in any Spider-Man film than when Parker has the roof come crashing down and cries for help because he is a kid. The life lessons he learns as Spider-Man can't be ideosyncratic enough to only apply to life as a superhero or he loses the very purpose for which he exists. It's akin to asking the X-Men to not have subtext that relates to Civil Rights.

Which did you see first? Into the Spiderverse is wonderful.

But so are Homecoming and Far From Home, which are far and away the best Spider-Man films and I say that as big fan of all three Raimi films. They cut to the core of what Spider-Man is in a way that no other live action film has.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Ergill » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:41 am

I liked Homecoming. Sure liked it. One of my favorite of the Marvel movies. But yes, Into the Spiderverse was the dog's bollocks. (Great good.)
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Rock » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:12 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:36 am
That's a fairly reductive reading of Homecoming to the point of being insulting to the film. I can't think of a scene of more potent vulnerability in any Spider-Man film than when Parker has the roof come crashing down and cries for help because he is a kid. The life lessons he learns as Spider-Man can't be ideosyncratic enough to only apply to life as a superhero or he loses the very purpose for which he exists. It's akin to asking the X-Men to not have subtext that relates to Civil Rights.

Which did you see first? Into the Spiderverse is wonderful.

But so are Homecoming and Far From Home, which are far and away the best Spider-Man films and I say that as big fan of all three Raimi films. They cut to the core of what Spider-Man is in a way that no other live action film has.
I stand by my insult. The movie is lame dude, and should stop trying to be as cool as Into the Spiderverse.

Subtext is one thing, but would you give X-2 a pass if it was just two hours of WIlliam Stryker learning the most basic lesson about racism being bad? That's honestly what Homecoming felt like to me.

I saw Homecoming first. I'm fine with these movies having different levels of ambition, but this one's are too modest to earn a pass from me.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Ergill » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:21 am

Rock wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:12 am
Subtext is one thing, but would you give X-2 a pass if it was just two hours of WIlliam Stryker learning the most basic lesson about racism being bad? That's honestly what Homecoming felt like to me.
It take some people a while to figure out racism is bad. It takes most nations forever.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Rock » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:24 am

Ergill wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:21 am
It take some people a while to figure out racism is bad. It takes most nations forever.
I do not give those nations a pass. They are lame, and will never be as cool as Into the Spiderverse.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Joop » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:29 am

Climax was incredible. Felt like The Hateful Eight set in modern times. Gasper Noe's other movies I appreciate on a technical level but I have trouble connecting with those movies, this movie on the other hand couldn't be less emotionally distant
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:53 am

Rock wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:12 am
I stand by my insult. The movie is lame dude, and should stop trying to be as cool as Into the Spiderverse.

Subtext is one thing, but would you give X-2 a pass if it was just two hours of WIlliam Stryker learning the most basic lesson about racism being bad? That's honestly what Homecoming felt like to me.

I saw Homecoming first. I'm fine with these movies having different levels of ambition, but this one's are too modest to earn a pass from me.
I wouldn't stand by such an insult as it would come off as the aforementioned claim of being reductionist. It would be akin to watching X-2 and taking it to be that Stryker only learned the lesson that racism is bad. You're neglecting the intricacies of Vulture, his villainy and the relativism he represents juxtaposed with Stark. Ultimately, Spider-Man is learning about power and responsibility but is also learning the nuances about not growing up too fast. It's a theme that I've not seen handled much better in films without the superheroics, performances and personal stakes that are handled exceptionally and better than most live action super hero films. I can't think of a better single scene than the car scene between him and Vulture before the titular dance in any Spider-Man film, Into the Spiderverse included.

Your criticism of Homecoming comes off as thought out as saying Spiderverse is shallow, feel-good pontificating about how anyone can be anything they want.

Both are excellent renditions of the character but I love Homecoming for being a classic rendition of the character and Into The Spiderverse for attempting to be a fresh take on endless redone material. That said, my faith in the foundation laid by Marvel with Homecoming paid off with FfH and I remain equally faithful that Sony will botch an ITS sequel.

Apologies if that comes off as a rambling mess or aggressive. It is a holiday and certain precautions were taken to assure the enjoyment of said occasion.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:55 am

Joop wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:29 am
Climax was incredible. Felt like The Hateful Eight set in modern times. Gasper Noe's other movies I appreciate on a technical level but I have trouble connecting with those movies, this movie on the other hand couldn't be less emotionally distant
I love it but have trouble seeing the H8 connection, outside of an isolated location.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Joop » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:05 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:55 am
I love it but have trouble seeing the H8 connection, outside of an isolated location.
Climax spoiler
It was the whole allegorical nature of its descent into chaos that reminded me a lot of Hateful 8.
I have a bad habit of seeing Hateful 8 connections in a lot of movies to be honest.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by topherH » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:56 am

Death Proof wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:42 pm
I don't really sleep any more. I'm pretty sure I'm in my last days.
Is the chief in there?
State of Siege |Gavras, 1972| +
Deadpool |Miller, 2016| +
Z |Gavras, 1969| -
The Confession |Gavras, 1970| +
Missing |Gavras, 1982| +
The Revenant |Inarritu, 2015| +
The Hateful Eight |Tarantino, 2015| +

+ Recommended
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Rock » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:00 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:53 am
I wouldn't stand by such an insult as it would come off as the aforementioned claim of being reductionist. It would be akin to watching X-2 and taking it to be that Stryker only learned the lesson that racism is bad. You're neglecting the intricacies of Vulture, his villainy and the relativism he represents juxtaposed with Stark. Ultimately, Spider-Man is learning about power and responsibility but is also learning the nuances about not growing up too fast. It's a theme that I've not seen handled much better in films without the superheroics, performances and personal stakes that are handled exceptionally and better than most live action super hero films. I can't think of a better single scene than the car scene between him and Vulture before the titular dance in any Spider-Man film, Into the Spiderverse included.

Your criticism of Homecoming comes off as thought out as saying Spiderverse is shallow, feel-good pontificating about how anyone can be anything they want.

Both are excellent renditions of the character but I love Homecoming for being a classic rendition of the character and Into The Spiderverse for attempting to be a fresh take on endless redone material. That said, my faith in the foundation laid by Marvel with Homecoming paid off with FfH and I remain equally faithful that Sony will botch an ITS sequel.

Apologies if that comes off as a rambling mess or aggressive. It is a holiday and certain precautions were taken to assure the enjoyment of said occasion.
No apologies needed, except for the repeated insistence that Homecoming is a good movie.

While you are probably correct that there is no wide gulf between the depth of life lessons learned by Spider-Man in Homecoming and ItSV, the latter has narrative and stylistic ambition to compensate. I didn't go into the handling of the Vulture because while I think it's done well enough, I don't think it provides the thrust of the movie and as such is not the source of my complaints.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Death Proof » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:41 pm

topherH wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:56 am
Is the chief in there?
No, my blood pressure is through the roof and I have no energy, which is likely due to heart failure.
If I am the Phantom, it is because man's hatred has made me so. If I shall be saved, it will be because your love redeems me.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Slentert » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:43 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:31 pm
Why did you think it was among the worst?
I have three major gripes with Marvel movies
1. trying way too hard to be funny, thereby sucking all sense of danger out of the movie
2. sloppy action sequences
3. way too long and bloated

and I think Homecoming is one of the worst offenders when it comes to these.

Other problems I had with it:

- how the role of Aunt May is reduced to "lol, she's hot now", because she's representative of Peter's whole family in this, an integral piece of Peter's foundations as a hero and as a person, and they don't give her anything meaningful to do. You could cut her out of the entire movie and it wouldn't make a difference.
- Who the fuck came up with the idea to cast the Lobby Boy from The Grand Budapest Hotel as Flash Thompson? I understand they wanted to go with a different route than the traditional way of portraying bullying on film, but this was hardly worthy of the name. He feels more like an outcast than Peter himself.
- The first time I watched the movie I was really impressed with the Vulture character, but on a rewatch I realized the only thing worthy of praise about it is Michael Keaton's performance. Because, you know, he is Michael Keaton, he's always good.
- Everyone talks about how that scene in the car is the best scene of the entire movie, but really it is just coasting on the surprise effect of that twist, when you watch it a second time, it is just as dull as all the other scenes in the movies.
- And just basically Marvel's entire problem with giving characters a proper arc. For more on that, I refer you to Film Crit Hulk's piece on it.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by The Nameless One » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:32 pm

I think Homecoming is superior to Spider-Verse, slightly
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:33 pm

Death Proof wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:41 pm
No, my blood pressure is through the roof and I have no energy, which is likely due to heart failure.
I'm sorry to hear that. :(
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:46 pm

Slentert wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:02 pm
This means I probably won't.
Well, enjoy whatever it is you do enjoy then.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Death Proof » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:49 pm

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:33 pm
I'm sorry to hear that. :(
Brought it on myself. 20+ years of damage I'm trying to undo in 2 months.
If I am the Phantom, it is because man's hatred has made me so. If I shall be saved, it will be because your love redeems me.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:54 pm

Slentert wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:43 pm
I have three major gripes with Marvel movies
1. trying way too hard to be funny, thereby sucking all sense of danger out of the movie
2. sloppy action sequences
3. way too long and bloated

and I think Homecoming is one of the worst offenders when it comes to these.

Other problems I had with it:

- how the role of Aunt May is reduced to "lol, she's hot now", because she's representative of Peter's whole family in this, an integral piece of Peter's foundations as a hero and as a person, and they don't give her anything meaningful to do. You could cut her out of the entire movie and it wouldn't make a difference.
- Who the fuck came up with the idea to cast the Lobby Boy from The Grand Budapest Hotel as Flash Thompson? I understand they wanted to go with a different route than the traditional way of portraying bullying on film, but this was hardly worthy of the name. He feels more like an outcast than Peter himself.
- The first time I watched the movie I was really impressed with the Vulture character, but on a rewatch I realized the only thing worthy of praise about it is Michael Keaton's performance. Because, you know, he is Michael Keaton, he's always good.
- Everyone talks about how that scene in the car is the best scene of the entire movie, but really it is just coasting on the surprise effect of that twist, when you watch it a second time, it is just as dull as all the other scenes in the movies.
- And just basically Marvel's entire problem with giving characters a proper arc. For more on that, I refer you to Film Crit Hulk's piece on it.
1. I can see this criticism for something like Guardians or Ragnarok (both of which I'm a big fan) but when does Homecoming use humor to undercut drama or tension?

2. How were the action sequences sloppy? This is an area of cinema I'm quite passionate about and while I consider the action in it to be mostly perfunctory in execution, I don't see anything sloppy in their presentation, unlike the consistent editing and continuity errors in the Dark Knight's chase scene.

3. Homecoming, before the credit sequences, ends at 2:03 mins which is almost the exact length of Spider-Man 2.

If you think it is among the most guilty, what did you think of Incredible Hulk, Thor, Thor: the Dark World, Black Panther, Ant Man, Ant Man and the Wasp, Captain Marvel, etc?

What would be meaningful for Aunt May that she does not do in the film? She's the familial counter-point to his super-heroics and in this version, she acts like a real Aunt, rather than a Grandmother figure.

With Flash, at first I was off-put. Then I saw basically every single other super-hero film and found all of them to have the lamest, most one-note, physical threat bullies that only exist to get punched out at some point. Shazam was the absolute worst in this regard. Making Flash a verbal bully was more realistic to the current school environment and functions better in a film in which Peter is already Spider-Man, thus not having to get beaten up and stand up to that.

Lastly, that FILMHULK article is a crock of shit that reads like "I didn't find the theme so it must not be there." At no point did he mention that the film purports to be about understanding the unintended consequences of your actions. If he had and explained how ever development and scene and arc is tied into that theme, or in the case of his film criticism, how that theme failed to manifest, I'd listen. But it's a verbose "I don't see it" so nah, man. Nah.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:55 pm

The Nameless One wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:32 pm
I think Homecoming is superior to Spider-Verse, slightly
I might be on that boat but it's a case of loving all two (three if we toss FFH in the mix) rather than a reasonable distinction between them.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:58 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:19 am
I'd say so, as much as there's any need for any film criticism or analysis. I'd argue Vulture has a far more complex characterization that any of the Raimi villains...
Man, that much, at least, could not be more true. The Green Goblin was a terrible failure, I mean, it hurt me, and whatever the hell was going on in Spider-Man 3 with not one, not two, but THREE terrible "villains"... sheesh.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:58 pm

Rock wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:00 pm
No apologies needed, except for the repeated insistence that Homecoming is a good movie.

While you are probably correct that there is no wide gulf between the depth of life lessons learned by Spider-Man in Homecoming and ItSV, the latter has narrative and stylistic ambition to compensate. I didn't go into the handling of the Vulture because while I think it's done well enough, I don't think it provides the thrust of the movie and as such is not the source of my complaints.

I think Vulture is integral to the plot and thematic thrust as he represents the need to understand unintended consequences of actions, which I just explains as perhaps the primary theme of the film, as it dictates Vulture, Peter's arc, the great Responsibilities, his decision at the end to not join and even the punchline joke with May at the very end.

Homecoming is a VERY good comic book movie.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Thief » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:07 pm

Death Proof wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:41 pm
No, my blood pressure is through the roof and I have no energy, which is likely due to heart failure.
Hope things get better. Are you going to any doctor?

FWIW, I had heart failure when I was 24-25. Was 1% of ejection fraction away from a heart transplant, but thankfully, responded well to the meds. My heart function right now is normal and although I still take two daily meds, I live a pretty normal life. My point is that you should seek medical advice before it gets to a point that might require something major. Hope the best for you.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Thief » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:12 pm

Wooley wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:58 pm
Man, that much, at least, could not be more true. The Green Goblin was a terrible failure, I mean, it hurt me, and whatever the hell was going on in Spider-Man 3 with not one, not two, but THREE terrible "villains"... sheesh.
I would say that Thomas Haden Church did a pretty good job with Sandman, considering the film he ended up in; but yeah, I also agree.

I had a lot of fun with Homecoming and felt it was appropriately low-key(?) in terms of the villains motivations and the overall stakes of the film. After all the "big bang" spectacle of most of the MCU films, I found it refreshing.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:19 pm

Slentert wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:43 pm
I have three major gripes with Marvel movies
1. trying way too hard to be funny, thereby sucking all sense of danger out of the movie

Other problems I had with it:

- how the role of Aunt May is reduced to "lol, she's hot now", because she's representative of Peter's whole family in this, an integral piece of Peter's foundations as a hero and as a person, and they don't give her anything meaningful to do. You could cut her out of the entire movie and it wouldn't make a difference.
Just to comment on these two, probably my favorite thing about the Marvel films, and why they absolutely crush every other studio's attempts to make comic-book movies, is that I feel that, like their comics, which were the best, they almost always have this balance of character and plot and drama and humor that to me, keeps this remarkable matrix of feeling that is just unlike anything else. It is the spirit of their comics splashed up on the screen. They're not overly dark and they're certainly not overly "gritty" (like The Dark Knight Rises, which seems like such a ridiculous and parodyable film in retrospect) but they're also not overly silly or slapstick (like a Fantastic 4, for example). They have a lightness to them, and yet there is also often a deep sadness to them that is true to life. Always running in the background of the main Avengers, for example, is the fact that Steve Rogers lost his entire life, that Tony Stark's insecurity drives everything he does, causing catastrophe almost as often as it results in heroics, that Thor labors with his identity and a sense of self-doubt underlies every moment of his life, that Natasha was a straight-up killer and lives with so much life-trauma and so much self-loathing that she desperately needs to be a hero to keep from hating herself completely, Banner's struggle is just horrific, obviously, and then Hawkeye has this secret life which means more to him than anything in the world... until he loses it (admittedly, they did the least work with Hawkeye, but there is a story there).
And then those characters, carrying all that weight, have to go out into the world and be heroes because no one else can. And they have to live with each other.
THAT is what the Marvel movies are about. Honestly, I don't know if I'd give a shit if there were any action scenes in them at all, my biggest complaint about both Infinity War and Endgame was that they had to come down to big battles in the end, but they do such a great job with the characters, the dialogue, for me the stakes (yes!, because the stakes are personal, which is so much better than smashing entire cities, the lesson I think they learned after Metropolis and Sekovia), and absolutely the humor.

And as a life-long, before-I-could-read-the-words, Spider-Man fan, I can tell you I love what they're doing with Aunt May. I'll admit if they had just left it where it ended after Homecoming it could have seemed like a one-dimensional gimmick to the cynical, but if May is the AUNT of a 16 year-old boy, she shouldn't be NINETY YEARS OLD. Even being in her 50s is about as far as you can really go. The fact that they cast her with a really good actress, who is also beautiful so that it introduces yet another character interaction, the pull of romance, into the lives of the characters, I think is a great idea.
But how they evolve the character in FFH makes this move an absolute winner in my book and gives even more weight to the now-famous mid-credits scene.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:26 pm

Thief wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:12 pm
I would say that Thomas Haden Church did a pretty good job with Sandman, considering the film he ended up in; but yeah, I also agree.
Oh, I agree he did what he could with what little he had, but the failure of that movie is the doppelgänger of the success of the two MCU Spidey films, it was afraid to, nay, terrified to keep it small. And this is what I love about the MCU Spidey movies (who am I kidding, there's a lot to love about them, Tom Holland), they took their biggest comics property and made his films the breather from bigger universe, the smaller, more intimate feeling movies, just "friendly neighborhood" comic-book movies.
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Jinnistan
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Jinnistan » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:56 pm

You folks are not being fair to Molina's Dr. Octopus. The turn in his character. from someone passionate about using science to serve humanity to one who is corrupted by his power, is a fully developed and intriguing character that is far deeper than Keaton's motivations for the Vulture.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Thief » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:10 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:56 pm
You folks are not being fair to Molina's Dr. Octopus. The turn in his character. from someone passionate about using science to serve humanity to one who is corrupted by his power, is a fully developed and intriguing character that is far deeper than Keaton's motivations for the Vulture.
I love him, and Spider-Man 2 is probably still on my Top 5 of superhero films.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:25 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:56 pm
You folks are not being fair to Molina's Dr. Octopus. The turn in his character. from someone passionate about using science to serve humanity to one who is corrupted by his power, is a fully developed and intriguing character that is far deeper than Keaton's motivations for the Vulture.
Is it though? He's great and I love S2 but the function of the tentacles having personalities that take over his mind isn't particularly well explored and serves as a half baked retread of Norman/Goblin DID.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Slentert » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:21 pm

Wooley wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:46 pm
Well, enjoy whatever it is you do enjoy then.
Yeah, I honestly feel bad for posting that original comment because it is needlessly negative. I was debating with myself whether or not I would go see it and for some reason MKS original post made me decide "no".
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Slentert » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:26 pm

Also, I have no problems with Aunt May being younger. I love Marisa Tomei but I don't think her bond with Peter really works here.
I am bothered though that every man that meets Aunt May immediately tries to flirt with her. The joke gets old really fast.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:30 pm

Loved Molina's Doc Ock.

Also loved the Doc Ock reveal in Into the Spider-verse. Head-slappingly obvious in retrospect, but I was so tickled when it occurred.
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The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:34 pm

Also, remembered I still have some B-day gift cards, so this weekend might be a Midsommar weekend.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:58 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:56 pm
You folks are not being fair to Molina's Dr. Octopus. The turn in his character. from someone passionate about using science to serve humanity to one who is corrupted by his power, is a fully developed and intriguing character that is far deeper than Keaton's motivations for the Vulture.
Not at all, you'll note that I left Spider-Man 2 and Alfred Molina (a favorite actor of mine) out of my criticism.

But I don't know if I agree that Molina's motivations are "deeper". More theatrical maybe, but that may be why I like Keaton's so much, he is just a man who nearly had the ability to care for his family taken away from him and found another, albeit illegal way, and is motivated now to a dangerous degree by something that is real to everyone.
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Takoma1
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Takoma1 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:00 pm

Watching Swing Time for the first time.

It's cute.

But, wait, what's that on his hands? Is he . . .putting that on his face . . . OH NO!
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:01 pm

DaMU wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:34 pm
Also, remembered I still have some B-day gift cards, so this weekend might be a Midsommar weekend.
Get on that! I wanna gab about it and it seems no one else rushed out to see it.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:01 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:25 pm
Is it though? He's great and I love S2 but the function of the tentacles having personalities that take over his mind isn't particularly well explored and serves as a half baked retread of Norman/Goblin DID.
Also, kinda true.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:02 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:00 pm
Watching Swing Time for the first time.

It's cute.

But, wait, what's that on his hands? Is he . . .putting that on his face . . . OH NO!
It sucks because it's an especially good number unlike the one in Holiday Inn...

But like Holiday Inn...

Really racist
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:02 pm

Slentert wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:21 pm
Yeah, I honestly feel bad for posting that original comment because it is needlessly negative. I was debating with myself whether or not I would go see it and for some reason MKS original post made me decide "no".
No worries, we're all friends here (right?) and all entitled to our feelings and, since this is a forum, to express them.
Hell, if we don't, what are we gonna talk about?
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:03 pm

Slentert wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:26 pm
Also, I have no problems with Aunt May being younger. I love Marisa Tomei but I don't think her bond with Peter really works here.
This is built upon, in a very new way, in FFH.

But let's be honest. Every man who meets Marisa Tomei almost certainly wants her. It's not her fault or Marvel's. It's God's.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:05 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:00 pm
Watching Swing Time for the first time.

It's cute.

But, wait, what's that on his hands? Is he . . .putting that on his face . . . OH NO!
Yup.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:26 pm

Can't speak to the MCU Spider-Man movies, but his tentacles are pretty much a representation of his greed, right? The way he mutters "The power of the sun in the palm of my hand" is the start of it all, and that's before the "inhibitor chip" (a very figurative name) breaks, and then it's off to the races with the tentacles mostly in the sidecar. (If I remember right, he doesn't interact with them much outside of that first conversation and the final one where he seethes, "Listen to me now".) He's more straight-up in his villainy through the middle of the film.

I'd agree that it's familiar territory in regard to the specific device of "talking to onesself" as a cheap way to cut to the chase dramatically (where am I mentally? what are my ambitions? what are the stakes? etc.). But one thing I think Molina has that makes it effective is a fantastic foothold in the first act of the film. He's warm, he's empathetic to Peter while also needling him ("He also tells me you're lazy"), his fondness for his wife feels easy and lived-in.* So when he does turn into Ock, there's a more tragic dimension to it, and that makes me happy when the film ends with him re-asserting the best part of himself. Him telling his tentacles to shut up and listen is just him telling his ambition to shut up and listen to his heart (which pointedly ties back into Parker's struggle to sacrifice his desires for the sake of moral responsibility).

*: It's those lived-in details that make Spider-Man 2 feel special to me. There's an effort to present the characters as human beings first and foremost. In details like Octavius giving Peter relationship advice while admitting he still doesn't get T.S. Eliot, or the realaxed walk after the play where Mary Jane snaps at Peter that "you have to get on before you can get off," or when Aunt May starts crying because she and Peter both know that she can't afford to give him $20 as a birthday gift (and later doing her yard sale). In those details, there's a recognition of lower-middle-class struggles that I rarely see in any movies, let alone superhero films, let alone articulated with such simplicity and directness. And all of these small moments give the story room-- I think with a lot of these kinds of films (big-budget Hollywood action-fantasies), it's very difficult to make the stories play as more than the sum of their beats.
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The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
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