Recently Seen

Discuss anything you want.
Post Reply
User avatar
Macrology
Posts: 4264
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:54 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Macrology » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:36 pm

Oh yeah. Straight Time is a great film, and supremely underrated.
Ma`crol´o`gy
n. 1. Long and tedious talk without much substance; superfluity of words.
User avatar
Rock
Posts: 1898
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:48 am
Location: From beyond the moon

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Rock » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:47 pm

Yeah, great movie. Love Stanton's role especially.
"We're outgunned and undermanned. But you know somethin'? We're gonna win. You know why? Superior attitude. Superior state of mind." - Mason Storm
____
Blog!
User avatar
Rock
Posts: 1898
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:48 am
Location: From beyond the moon

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Rock » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:56 pm

Forgot I had that avatar when I posted that.
"We're outgunned and undermanned. But you know somethin'? We're gonna win. You know why? Superior attitude. Superior state of mind." - Mason Storm
____
Blog!
User avatar
Spencie Returns
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:08 am

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Spencie Returns » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:47 am

Toy Story 4 made me feel stuff. Just when I thought it sounded dumb for them to make another sequel in spite of the conclusiveness of Toy Story 3, they end up delivering the goods all over again. This one feels smaller in scale, like an epilogue about Woody hitting retirement age. I didn't plan on seeing this in theaters, but I'm glad I did.
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2946
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:58 am

Captain Terror wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:57 pm
Image

Here's the first thing you need to know about this: Jakob Dylan and some of his fellow '90s friends recorded an album of covers devoted to the Laurel Canyon scene of 1965-67, and subsequently performed the songs in a concert. I did not know this, so I expected this film to be more of a documentary about the scene as opposed to a companion to this album. So all of those names on the right of the poster- expect to see a lot of them. Expect to see vintage footage of the Byrds performing a song, while audio of Dylan Jr and Friends plays over it. Expect those same 90s folks to sit around a table full of LPs talking about how great the songs were (thanks, Beck). Expect footage of Jakob driving around the canyon in a convertible.

Now with your expectations adjusted accordingly, there's still some interesting stuff here thanks to interviews with the people that actually lived there. But in the end, it just seemed like a series of anecdotes as opposed to any sort of history. I don't feel like I learned much. The names Jim Morrison and Joni Mitchell are literally never mentioned, let alone "lesser" names like Arthur Lee or Lowell George. (The official excuse is that Joni's debut arrived at the end of the period being covered, which is technically true but I mean, come on.) Zappa appears in a 30-second story told by S. Stills and is never mentioned again, and so on.

If you're interested in the subject it's worth your time if you can stream it for free, but I consider it a lost opportunity.
Fucking bummer man.
User avatar
topherH
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:05 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by topherH » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:25 am

Toy Story 4 - 9/10

Hilarious and they stuck the landing.
State of Siege |Gavras, 1972| +
Deadpool |Miller, 2016| +
Z |Gavras, 1969| -
The Confession |Gavras, 1970| +
Missing |Gavras, 1982| +
The Revenant |Inarritu, 2015| +
The Hateful Eight |Tarantino, 2015| +

+ Recommended
User avatar
Macrology
Posts: 4264
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:54 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Macrology » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:06 am

Samurai Movie Night's past month:

Lone Wolf and Cub: Baby Cart in the Land of Demons - Hong Kong style pork chops
Lone Wolf and Cub: White Heaven in Hell - Di San Xian (Chinese veggie stir-fry)
Drunken Master - Sichuan Beef Noodle Soup
Lady Snowblood - Bulgogi (Korean grilled beef)
Zatoichi: Darkness Is His Ally - Miso soup and tempura (sweet potato, onion, shrimp, catfish, squash, zucchini, eggplant, mushrooms, bell pepper)

Been a good stretch. Lone Wolf and Cub series is done and the original Shintaro Katsu run of Zatoichi is finally wrapped up. I may take a break from samurai movies for a month and have people over for other stuff (I have several movies I saw, loved, bought, but haven't rewatched yet, so I'll probably break into those).
Ma`crol´o`gy
n. 1. Long and tedious talk without much substance; superfluity of words.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 2058
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:29 am

Macrology wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:06 am
Samurai Movie Night's past month:

Lone Wolf and Cub: Baby Cart in the Land of Demons - Hong Kong style pork chops
Lone Wolf and Cub: White Heaven in Hell - Di San Xian (Chinese veggie stir-fry)
Drunken Master - Sichuan Beef Noodle Soup
Lady Snowblood - Bulgogi (Korean grilled beef)
Zatoichi: Darkness Is His Ally - Miso soup and tempura (sweet potato, onion, shrimp, catfish, squash, zucchini, eggplant, mushrooms, bell pepper)

Been a good stretch. Lone Wolf and Cub series is done and the original Shintaro Katsu run of Zatoichi is finally wrapped up. I may take a break from samurai movies for a month and have people over for other stuff (I have several movies I saw, loved, bought, but haven't rewatched yet, so I'll probably break into those).
Thoughts on any of said films?
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 2058
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:37 am

Fitzcarraldo is something of a masterpiece isn't it?
User avatar
Stu
Posts: 25337
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:49 am

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Stu » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:40 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:37 am
Fitzcarraldo is something of a masterpiece isn't it?
It never engaged me all that much, to be honest with you :shifty: Aguirre is still an all-time favorite, though!
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 2058
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:59 am

Stu wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:40 am
It never engaged me all that much, to be honest with you :shifty: Aguirre is still an all-time favorite, though!
Aguirre is exceptional as well. Both challenge that boundary between narrative film and documentary, where the transparent creation of the art becomes as astounding an achievement as any of the characters.

Both are the types of films about obsessed, ambitious mad men that only obsessed, ambitious mad men could create.
User avatar
Macrology
Posts: 4264
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:54 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Macrology » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:25 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:29 am
Thoughts on any of said films?
The last Lone Wolf and Cub flick was a fun, weird trip. I'd already seen Lady Snowblood and Drunken Master, both of which are great. The final Zatoichi flick was a confusing mess but had some of the most striking fight sequences in the series and fantastic cinematography (despite a slightly muddy transfer).
Ma`crol´o`gy
n. 1. Long and tedious talk without much substance; superfluity of words.
User avatar
topherH
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:05 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by topherH » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:38 pm

Lifeboat -9.5/10

I remember feeling this was an also ran when I explored Hitch around five years ago, but man film I realize is fun also looking at certain movies at different points in life. It's literally chock full of all his best stuff and just takes place in a boat. No need for overly elaborate 50's material, just bare bone minimal suspense.
State of Siege |Gavras, 1972| +
Deadpool |Miller, 2016| +
Z |Gavras, 1969| -
The Confession |Gavras, 1970| +
Missing |Gavras, 1982| +
The Revenant |Inarritu, 2015| +
The Hateful Eight |Tarantino, 2015| +

+ Recommended
User avatar
LEAVES
Posts: 15636
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: LEAVES come from TREES

Re: Recently Seen

Post by LEAVES » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:43 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:59 am
Aguirre is exceptional as well. Both challenge that boundary between narrative film and documentary, where the transparent creation of the art becomes as astounding an achievement as any of the characters.

Both are the types of films about obsessed, ambitious mad men that only obsessed, ambitious mad men could create.
There are plenty of obsessed, ambitious mad men making films, but most of them manage to keep the wake of the motorboat out of the frame. That, I think, is the key difference.
User avatar
Macrology
Posts: 4264
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:54 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Macrology » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:53 pm

LEAVES wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:43 pm
There are plenty of obsessed, ambitious mad men making films, but most of them manage to keep the wake of the motorboat out of the frame. That, I think, is the key difference.
The difference between what?

Also, Burden of Dreams is better than Fitzcarraldo, and they're about the same thing.
Ma`crol´o`gy
n. 1. Long and tedious talk without much substance; superfluity of words.
User avatar
Thief
Posts: 1995
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:20 pm
Location: Puerto Rico
Contact:

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Thief » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:01 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:59 am
Aguirre is exceptional as well. Both challenge that boundary between narrative film and documentary, where the transparent creation of the art becomes as astounding an achievement as any of the characters.

Both are the types of films about obsessed, ambitious mad men that only obsessed, ambitious mad men could create.
I'm very curious about Fitzcarraldo (that's the one with the boat, right?). Aguirre is a film that I initially liked, but didn't "love". But the more time has passed, the more it has stuck with me. Very haunting and eerie.
--- UNDER CONSTRUCTION ---
User avatar
Captain Terror
Posts: 1909
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Captain Terror » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:12 pm

Thief, keep watching Aguirre until you love it! Thanks.

I *like* Fitzcarraldo but I agree that Burden of Dreams is the more fascinating film.
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2954
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Jinnistan » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:15 pm

Macrology wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:53 pm
Also, Burden of Dreams is better than Fitzcarraldo, and they're about the same thing.
I just had some guy try to tell me the other day that Burden was his favorite Herzog film. Is it a seasonal thing with these people?

I don't disagree with you, btw.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 2058
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:26 pm

LEAVES wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:43 pm
There are plenty of obsessed, ambitious mad men making films, but most of them manage to keep the wake of the motorboat out of the frame. That, I think, is the key difference.
Hey, guys! LEAVES found something to be pithy and dismissive about a film!
User avatar
Thief
Posts: 1995
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:20 pm
Location: Puerto Rico
Contact:

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Thief » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:29 pm

Captain Terror wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:12 pm
Thief, keep watching Aguirre until you love it! Thanks.
That's the thing. I think I gave the film a B+ back when I saw it, but if you ask me right now, I would probably say an A-, maybe even an A.

It is also only the third Herzog film I've seen, after Bad Lieutenant (which was weird but fun) and Rescue Dawn (which I borderline disliked), so maybe I approached it a bit wary.
--- UNDER CONSTRUCTION ---
User avatar
Torgo
Posts: 1886
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:40 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Torgo » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:30 pm

The filmmaker who keeps the wake out is more, well...woke.
Last Great Movie Seen
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (Hooper, 1974)
User avatar
LEAVES
Posts: 15636
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: LEAVES come from TREES

Re: Recently Seen

Post by LEAVES » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:34 pm

Macrology wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:53 pm
The difference between what?

Also, Burden of Dreams is better than Fitzcarraldo, and they're about the same thing.
Marketa Lazarova took the film crew 2 years to make while living in period-appropriate shelter and clothing every day. If you watch the film, there is nothing from the 20th century on display.

Herzog’s uniqueness is that he doesn’t hide things well. Maybe it’s a German thing - Fassbinder would typically only shoot each scene once, no matter if some anachronism slipped in. There are certainly elements in Fitzcarraldo that are just, “Look at how much work we did!” Kind of the opposite of most of the ambitious types we think of who put in MUCH more effort and typically money to make everything entirely free of anachronism and entirely lived-in. Herzog’s films feel the opposite of lived-in, they feel uncomfortably shared with the film crew. Almost like an extreme adventure film (which cinephiles typically do not watch) mixed with a poorly done fictional film (which cinephiles typically do not watch). The result: so much uniqueness! Or, alternately: a mildly impressive curio.

Both Fitzcarraldo and Aguirre have a lot in common with expedition/mountaineering films, except the feats that those people accomplish require much, much more work per person and are far, far more ambitious. It all depends on how you contextualize.

In terms of absolute ambition, Herzog is far below the better, more accomplished filmmakers of his type. In terms of accomplishment, Herzog is far below the better, more accomplished adventure storytellers. In terms of failing to hide anachronisms while shooting a fictional film that required adventure, he’s in a class of his own! I just don’t find it a very impressive class, to be honest.
User avatar
LEAVES
Posts: 15636
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: LEAVES come from TREES

Re: Recently Seen

Post by LEAVES » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:36 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:26 pm
Hey, guys! LEAVES found something to be pithy and dismissive about a film!
Context.
User avatar
Popcorn Reviews
Posts: 1770
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:22 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:41 pm

I've been meaning to watch Fitzacarraldo for a while after being blown away by both Aguirre and Grizzly Man.

Lessons of Darkness is also quite good. I prefer the other two films I've seen from him though.
User avatar
Captain Terror
Posts: 1909
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Captain Terror » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:48 pm

Thief wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:29 pm
That's the thing. I think I gave the film a B+ back when I saw it, but if you ask me right now, I would probably say an A-, maybe even an A.

It is also only the third Herzog film I've seen, after Bad Lieutenant (which was weird but fun) and Rescue Dawn (which I borderline disliked), so maybe I approached it a bit wary.
Oof, I didn't like Rescue Dawn at all. Funny, that's another one where I greatly preferred the related documentary (Little Dieter Needs to Fly). But yeah, if those are the only 3 you've seen you're missing a lot of the good ones. Anything from the 70s would be a good start. Don't give up on ol' Herz-dog yet.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 2058
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:02 pm

LEAVES wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:36 pm
Context.
I view it in the context of your post history, yes.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 2058
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:11 pm

I love Werner Herzog. There's a slapdash recklessness to his filmmaking that gives birth to such an off-kilter and often gloriously cinematic feel (Kinski atop the boat with the phonograph has become an indelible image cemented in my mind).

If I were to do a quick ranking of his films that I've seen, I'd be forced to break them into narrative and documentary:

Narrative:

1) Aguirre
2) Woyzeck
3) Enigma of Kaspar Hauswr
4) Fitzcarraldo (may climb higher)
5) Nosferatu
6) Heart of Glass
7) Strozek
8) Even Dwarves Started Small (his most memorable)
9) Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans
10) Rescue Dawn
11) My Son My Son What Have Ye Done

The issue is that I more or less love all of them so if I were to make this list tomorrow, they'd all be shuffled. The documentaries are a little more solidly in place:

1) Grizzly Man
2) Into the Abyss
3) the Land of Silence and Darkness
4) Fata Morgana
5) Cave of Forgotten Dreams

Grizzly Man is among my favorite docs ever. Land of Silence and Darkness is among the saddest.
User avatar
Patrick McGroin
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:01 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Patrick McGroin » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:55 pm

Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse - 9/10 - Well that was just a slice of awesome. The gorgeous animation combined with a coherent and surprisingly stirring story. Surprising because it's in service to what anyone would have thought was well mined territory. Is it the best Spider-man movie ever? Probably. I think you can safely say that and not have it laughed off. Is it the best comic book movie ever? I don't know. But I do think that from now on you have to specify whether it's "Best Comic Book Movie Ever" or "Best Non-Animated Comic Book Movie Ever". That's saying something.
My heart is still and awaits its hour.
User avatar
Macrology
Posts: 4264
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:54 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Macrology » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:59 pm

LEAVES wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:34 pm
Marketa Lazarova took the film crew 2 years to make while living in period-appropriate shelter and clothing every day. If you watch the film, there is nothing from the 20th century on display.

Herzog’s uniqueness is that he doesn’t hide things well. Maybe it’s a German thing - Fassbinder would typically only shoot each scene once, no matter if some anachronism slipped in. There are certainly elements in Fitzcarraldo that are just, “Look at how much work we did!” Kind of the opposite of most of the ambitious types we think of who put in MUCH more effort and typically money to make everything entirely free of anachronism and entirely lived-in. Herzog’s films feel the opposite of lived-in, they feel uncomfortably shared with the film crew. Almost like an extreme adventure film (which cinephiles typically do not watch) mixed with a poorly done fictional film (which cinephiles typically do not watch). The result: so much uniqueness! Or, alternately: a mildly impressive curio.

Both Fitzcarraldo and Aguirre have a lot in common with expedition/mountaineering films, except the feats that those people accomplish require much, much more work per person and are far, far more ambitious. It all depends on how you contextualize.

In terms of absolute ambition, Herzog is far below the better, more accomplished filmmakers of his type. In terms of accomplishment, Herzog is far below the better, more accomplished adventure storytellers. In terms of failing to hide anachronisms while shooting a fictional film that required adventure, he’s in a class of his own! I just don’t find it a very impressive class, to be honest.
I honestly think Vláčil and Herzog have radically different ambitions, to the point that comparing their films seems to wholly miss the point. They're both period pieces, but the similarities don't extend far beyond that. Vláčil was painstakingly recreating a period atmosphere (and had state funding and cheap labor to throw at that kind of ambition); Herzog has a more bull charging into the unknown sensibility, a tenacious recklessness.

In fact, arguing what filmmakers are more ambitious seems pointless, as if that were an end unto itself. I don't think Herzog is that concerned with "ambition" - his very modestly crafted documentaries belie the popular mythos surrounding him - but his obstinacy is a thing to behold. I don't think it always makes the best films - which is why the process of making Fitzcarraldo is more compelling than the film itself - but his relentless devil-may-care curiosity has yielded some remarkable results, like Even Dwarfs Started Small and Aguirre.

He STOLE the camera AND the monkeys for Aguirre. I'm sorry, but that's objectively awesome.
Ma`crol´o`gy
n. 1. Long and tedious talk without much substance; superfluity of words.
User avatar
Macrology
Posts: 4264
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:54 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Macrology » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:02 pm

Also, regarding the wake in the water, that's exactly the kind of detail Herzog wouldn't ever care a jot about. It's part of the ramshackle, by the seat of the pants mentality behind the whole enterprise. In fact, I want to say I saw or read an interview with him once when he bemoaned the kind of pedants who point out microphones dipping into a shot and continuity errors.
Ma`crol´o`gy
n. 1. Long and tedious talk without much substance; superfluity of words.
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Ergill » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:06 pm

There's a boom mic in The Double Life of Veronique. Kieslowski is a lie!
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 2058
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:08 pm

Ergill wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:06 pm
There's a boom mic in The Double Life of Veronique. Kieslowski is a lie!
Lieslowski!
User avatar
LEAVES
Posts: 15636
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: LEAVES come from TREES

Re: Recently Seen

Post by LEAVES » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:32 pm

Macrology wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:59 pm
I honestly think Vláčil and Herzog have radically different ambitions, to the point that comparing their films seems to wholly miss the point. They're both period pieces, but the similarities don't extend far beyond that. Vláčil was painstakingly recreating a period atmosphere (and had state funding and cheap labor to throw at that kind of ambition); Herzog has a more bull charging into the unknown sensibility, a tenacious recklessness.

In fact, arguing what filmmakers are more ambitious seems pointless, as if that were an end unto itself. I don't think Herzog is that concerned with "ambition" - his very modestly crafted documentaries belie the popular mythos surrounding him - but his obstinacy is a thing to behold. I don't think it always makes the best films - which is why the process of making Fitzcarraldo is more compelling than the film itself - but his relentless devil-may-care curiosity has yielded some remarkable results, like Even Dwarfs Started Small and Aguirre.

He STOLE the camera AND the monkeys for Aguirre. I'm sorry, but that's objectively awesome.
I don’t really disagree with what you’ve said here. The one thing that you didn’t circle back to was the key word in the original post I made - “astounding”. Herzog’s work is many things, but astounding is not one of them. Ridiculous, reckless, carefree, sure! It has that ramshackle feel you mention that is the opposite of astounding. It’s more... what, relatable? It feels like you could make it yourself. And, no, Vlacil was not unique in his labor force. People in remote Amazonian jungles were not and still are not living in anything but one of the poorest regions in the entire world. You couls certainly today go down and hire his same workforce for a remarkably inexpensive rate. And think of how much less careful planning you would have to do to hide the camera compared to the virtuoso long-takes people drool over. Do I find those things to be a waste of time? Sure, but if we’re throwing adjectives around then those feats are far more astounding than Herzog’s. As for Herzog on boom mics, let’s not pretend that he didn’t try to keep them out of the frame. He may think people are pedants for pointing them out, but he was never daring enough to keep them in on purpose, so he clearly didn’t think it was a good thing. There are plenty of filmmakers who embraced the full ramshackle more than Herzog.

So, basically, I think you and I are in exact agreement:

Herzog’s filmmaking is ramshackle, not astounding; Herzog’s fictional work is not his best; praising filmmakers for their ambition is silly (also a central point of the first post I quoted), and if we are to talk about Herzog then that original post I quoted misses all of the interesting parts! Great! That was the point after all: The post made no sense with regard to singling out anything singular about Herzog.
User avatar
LEAVES
Posts: 15636
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: LEAVES come from TREES

Re: Recently Seen

Post by LEAVES » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:34 pm

Ergill wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:06 pm
There's a boom mic in The Double Life of Veronique. Kieslowski is a lie!
Yes but which half of the film? If it’s in the second half then it’s thematically appropriate.
User avatar
LEAVES
Posts: 15636
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: LEAVES come from TREES

Re: Recently Seen

Post by LEAVES » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:39 pm

“Taking a close look at - at what's around us there - there is some sort of a harmony. It is the harmony of... overwhelming and collective murder. And we in comparison to the articulate vileness and baseness and obscenity of all this jungle - Uh, we in comparison to that enormous articulation - we only sound and look like badly pronounced and half-finished sentences out of a stupid suburban... novel... a cheap novel. We have to become humble in front of this overwhelming misery and overwhelming fornication... overwhelming growth and overwhelming lack of order. Even the - the stars up here in the - in the sky look like a mess. There is no harmony in the universe. We have to get acquainted to this idea that there is no real harmony as we have conceived it. But when I say this, I say this all full of admiration for the jungle. It is not that I hate it, I love it. I love it very much. But I love it against my better judgment.”

If only Herzog ever delivered in film what he comes up with in the moment in a second or third language... imagine how great his films would be!
User avatar
Takoma1
Posts: 2583
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:51 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Takoma1 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:52 pm

I think that Herzog's storytelling strengths come out far more in his documentaries, where he can be guided by his own curiosity and desire to see the different sides of a story.

Aguirre literally put me to sleep. And knowing what I do now about Kinski, it's not a film I'll revisit.

I quite liked Rescue Dawn. I really loved My Son My Son What Have Ye Done (maybe helped by attending a Q&A with one of the writers). I dig Bad Lieutenant, though didn't enjoy it as much on a rewatch as I thought I would.

He's an interesting guy. When it comes to his fictional films, I tend to find the discussions about them and their process more interesting than the movies themselves.
User avatar
Macrology
Posts: 4264
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:54 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Macrology » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:36 pm

First, I'd argue "astounding" isn't the only (or even most important) thing that a film can be. What I like about a lot of Herzog's early work is its eerie, off-putting quality (especially present in Aguirre, Nosferatu, and Kaspar Hauser).

But I'd also argue that some of his work is astounding, namely his documentary or borderline documentary stuff. Lessons in Darkness certainly stands out in that regard.
Ma`crol´o`gy
n. 1. Long and tedious talk without much substance; superfluity of words.
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2954
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Jinnistan » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:25 pm

Ergill wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:06 pm
There's a boom mic in The Double Life of Veronique. Kieslowski is a lie!
I've also told myself that was a boom mic. Just dangling there.
User avatar
LEAVES
Posts: 15636
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: LEAVES come from TREES

Re: Recently Seen

Post by LEAVES » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:24 am

Macrology wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:36 pm
First, I'd argue "astounding" isn't the only (or even most important) thing that a film can be. What I like about a lot of Herzog's early work is its eerie, off-putting quality (especially present in Aguirre, Nosferatu, and Kaspar Hauser).

But I'd also argue that some of his work is astounding, namely his documentary or borderline documentary stuff. Lessons in Darkness certainly stands out in that regard.
My original post wasn’t about all of the things that a film could be, it was about the actual things said. Astounding was one of them, and the central qualitative comment. You may not have been responding to what my post was responding to, but I was.
User avatar
Macrology
Posts: 4264
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:54 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Macrology » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:09 am

Fair enough. I kinda lost track of where the discussion originated as I was responding.
Ma`crol´o`gy
n. 1. Long and tedious talk without much substance; superfluity of words.
User avatar
Death Proof
Posts: 1833
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:14 pm
Location: South Jersey

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Death Proof » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:17 am

In the Name of the Father - 10/10
If I am the Phantom, it is because man's hatred has made me so. If I shall be saved, it will be because your love redeems me.
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Ergill » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:21 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:08 pm
Lieslowski!
:D
LEAVES wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:34 pm
Yes but which half of the film? If it’s in the second half then it’s thematically appropriate.
Can't recall offhand. Not too concerned about it though. I mean, it's an accident either way. I assume you're appealing to the behind-the-curtain moves in the second half, but we could just as well say the whole movie is about accident. If we like the films enough, we'll roll with it, whether we can summon an excuse or not. I consider Herzog one of the great amateurs of cinema (with no special hierarchy meant), so the ramshackleness is part of the pull for me. It doesn't always click, but when it does, oh boy - snip snap zoom.

And everyone here knows perfectly well that Herzog's greatest work is the picture he took with Errol Morris under a rainbow.
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Ergill » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:38 am

Captain Terror wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:02 pm
(If there was any humor in Hereditary I've since blocked all memory of it)
I had a good laugh when Collette tells Byrne her beheaded mother is up in the attic, and he, after a litany of traumas and inexplicable experiences, just kind of sighs, shrugs, and then quietly proceeds to pull down the ladder.
User avatar
wichares
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:48 am

Re: Recently Seen

Post by wichares » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:22 pm

Rocketman peaks way too early with "Your Song" and "Crocodile Rock" sequences, two ends of musical staging spectrum that are both superbly realized (one overwhelmingly tender and realistic, the other a grand and fantastical showcase of a performer's presence). The rest of musical sequences are earnest but too messy to help paper over the tired biopic checkpoints; I guess at least it barely sinks to Walk Hard territory like Bohemian Rhapsody does on a regular basis. Taron Egerton is marvelous throughout though.
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2946
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:44 pm

The Warrior And The Sorceress

Fairly faithful remake of Fistful Of Dollars/Yojimbo but with swords, boobs, David Carradine instead of Eastwood/Mifune, and a sort of lizard-guy. Made on about the same budget as Fistful Of Dollars, honestly. I like skin as much as the next guy, but it got kinda hilarious that the "Sorceress" was nude in literally every single scene she was in. Every one. Otherwise, yeah, it's cheap but it's really not that bad and it's kinda cute to see Spaghetti Western tropes applied to a sword and sorcery movie.
User avatar
DaMU
Posts: 771
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:19 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:00 pm

Rock wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:11 am
I'm still working through my thoughts on Midsommar, which left me a bit cold but for reasons I can't pinpoint, but thought I'd share this interview where Aster talks about his influence:

https://www.indiewire.com/gallery/ari-a ... midsommar/
It left me fairly cold too. I tried to write a whole big thing, but all I'm left thinking is that I very much respect Ari Aster as a fussy aesthete with fun design influences, admirable trust in his audiences' patience, and an ability to pull good performances from his actors (which is no small thing), but I have reliable trouble engaging with his characters and sometimes am left thinking he views his premises as sardonic jokes.

The biggest thing is that this film firms up my understanding of my own perspective re: I do not like films where heroes death-march toward the conclusion. That hung me up a bit in Lords of Salem, a bit more in Hereditary, and a lot in this one. The pre-ordained, completely-controlled fatalism of these kinds of things are just not to my taste.

I do think Aster could write a fantastic comedy, though. There's a bit in this flick where Christian locks eyes with an older woman in an unexpected context that (intentionally) broke the audience into loud laughter.
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
User avatar
Death Proof
Posts: 1833
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:14 pm
Location: South Jersey

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Death Proof » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:00 pm

A Futile and Stupid Gesture - 7/10
If I am the Phantom, it is because man's hatred has made me so. If I shall be saved, it will be because your love redeems me.
User avatar
Rock
Posts: 1898
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:48 am
Location: From beyond the moon

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Rock » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:04 pm

DaMU wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:00 pm
It left me fairly cold too. I tried to write a whole big thing, but all I'm left thinking is that I very much respect Ari Aster as a fussy aesthete with fun design influences, admirable trust in his audiences' patience, and an ability to pull good performances from his actors (which is no small thing), but I have reliable trouble engaging with his characters and sometimes am left thinking he views his premises as sardonic jokes.

The biggest thing is that this film firms up my understanding of my own perspective re: I do not like films where heroes death-march toward the conclusion. That hung me up a bit in Lords of Salem, a bit more in Hereditary, and a lot in this one. The pre-ordained, completely-controlled fatalism of these kinds of things are just not to my taste.

I do think Aster could write a fantastic comedy, though. There's a bit in this flick where Christian locks eyes with an older woman in an unexpected context that (intentionally) broke the audience into loud laughter.
I think part of my complaints lie there (I think you cited The Wicker Man's ending at one point when talking about Hereditary, and I think that contrast in the agency of the protagonist is especially stark here). But I liked Hereditary a lot, mostly because I thought it was able to get us into the fraught mindstate of its characters (so the death-march had a real immediacy), whereas this seems more at a remove, and I think a lot of what rubbed me wrong about this one comes from that. Without spoiling the opening sequence, I was really bothered by the use of certain imagery in the opening sequence (which I get is the point, but like you said talking about Piranha 3D, we all have our limits) and I think without that total commitment to the intensity of the characters' emotions, it just feels wrong (especially when the movie trots out that same image for more basic shock value later) and I'm afraid I couldn't really get back into it. I respect Aster's willingness to bring in real trauma into pop horror movies, and I think it works in Hereditary, but for lack of a better word, this movie "triggered" me in that respect.

But yeah, agreed on Aster's strengths and sense of humour.
"We're outgunned and undermanned. But you know somethin'? We're gonna win. You know why? Superior attitude. Superior state of mind." - Mason Storm
____
Blog!
User avatar
DaMU
Posts: 771
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:19 pm

Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:49 pm

Rock wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:04 pm
But I liked Hereditary a lot, mostly because I thought it was able to get us into the fraught mindstate of its characters (so the death-march had a real immediacy), whereas this seems more at a remove...
I'd agree that Hereditary manages things better, (IMO) due to Toni Collette's work, which really was phenomenal.
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
User avatar
Rock
Posts: 1898
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:48 am
Location: From beyond the moon

Re: Recently Seen

Post by Rock » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:48 am

DaMU wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:49 pm
I'd agree that Hereditary manages things better, (IMO) due to Toni Collette's work, which really was phenomenal.
100%. There's a rawness and weight to her work that I think really takes things to the next level.
"We're outgunned and undermanned. But you know somethin'? We're gonna win. You know why? Superior attitude. Superior state of mind." - Mason Storm
____
Blog!
Post Reply