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ThatDarnMKS
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:53 pm

Death Proof wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:29 pm
The 36th Chamber of Shaolin - 8/10

Spectre - 7/10
Now you need to check out 8 Diagram Pole Fighter.

Also, nice to see someone not hate on Spectre. I sort of love it.
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Takoma1
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:15 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:53 pm
Now you need to check out 8 Diagram Pole Fighter.
I just watched that one!

It's on Prime, but dubbed.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:18 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:15 pm
I just watched that one!

It's on Prime, but dubbed.
Prime has an AWESOME selection of Shaw Bros goodness but unfortunately only has the dubs. It's pretty frustrating as I do think there's an unintentional camp that comes with the dubbings that often makes people view them at arm's length.

8DPL is among my absolute favorite classic kung fu flicks. It's from the great Lau Kar Leung and virtually all his films are worth seeking out.

You should give My Young Auntie a gander. It also has Kara Hui and she's just wonderful in everything.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:26 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:18 pm
Prime has an AWESOME selection of Shaw Bros goodness but unfortunately only has the dubs. It's pretty frustrating as I do think there's an unintentional camp that comes with the dubbings that often makes people view them at arm's length.

8DPL is among my absolute favorite classic kung fu flicks. It's from the great Lau Kar Leung and virtually all his films are worth seeking out.

You should give My Young Auntie a gander. It also has Kara Hui and she's just wonderful in everything.
I was surprised at how little I minded the dub. The film operates at such a high level of drama (not a complaint!) that between the crazy camera zooms and explosive action, the dubbing didn't have the distancing effect that it usually does for me.

I think it's the first dubbed film that I've seen in like 10 years. I'm usually fanatical about subs over dubs just because I find it so distracting.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:35 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:26 pm
I was surprised at how little I minded the dub. The film operates at such a high level of drama (not a complaint!) that between the crazy camera zooms and explosive action, the dubbing didn't have the distancing effect that it usually does for me.

I think it's the first dubbed film that I've seen in like 10 years. I'm usually fanatical about subs over dubs just because I find it so distracting.
I'll take that as a testament to how great that film is.

I will say that the dub never seems to tarnish the enjoyment of a Shaw flick but it does seem to reduce the approximate value of quality most times. I will gladly watch a Shaw dub over most other dubs (giallo and spaghetti westerns being the genres I don't mind dubs at all) but if you get the chance, rewatch it with a sub.

You familiar with Shaw Bros much?
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:41 pm

Macrology wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:49 pm
I would not, however, compare the repercussions to sexual assault; his actions are not sexual or even sexually motivated. True, as indicated in the article you quoted earlier, there is a suggestiveness to the glue that lends the act an uncanny quality, and I think it's meant to draw attention to the misogyny behind it. But that is still quite distinct from actual sexually invasive behavior.
So in the interest of science (INTERNET SCIENCE!!), I posted an open question an another forum (non-movie) where I post. I asked women on a scale from 1 to 10, with a 10 being a stranger forcefully groping you (like an aggressive boob grab), how upsetting would you find it if someone poured glue on your hair?

What I found was that I was not alone in my incredibly visceral reaction to this scenario.

"I think a 10 is appropriate, because it requires planning and premeditation. . . I also think the lasting, inconvenient nature of it ratchets up the seriousness. One could, theoretically, just walk away from a groping and go about one's business, but whatever you were about to do, you can't now, because there's glue in your hair, and that pretty much has to be dealt with immediately. So this person's goal was not to (or not just to) get their rocks off, but to control you in some way."

"if 10 is being groped, someone pouring glue in my hair is 10. I think I might even be reconsidering this. I am not sure I think its sexual but if a man or woman poured a foriegn substance into my hair that I than discovered was glue it would be more upsetting than being groped. It would be like a 13. At least I would know what was going on with the grope."

"I would be extremely bothered by it because it seems premeditated and specifically designed to inconvenience and harm its target. I wouldn’t think fetish, I would think “that person actively hates me,” and I would probably think I was deliberately targeted and maybe the attacker had been watching me. Worse than getting groped by a stranger but on a different axis."

"if 10 is like, a breast grab, I'd say 8-- high, because it seems like such an act would be in service of a very specific fetish, so no thank you. Plus, ew!"

"I was groped. . . one winter night. I've never had glue dumped in my hair in a hit-and-run, so it's tough to compare, but one of the things I found unsettling about having my butt grabbed was that there was a real feeling of ongoing threat. Like, they'd only grabbed my butt, but then what else were they capable of doing? With "unwanted touching," there can be an implicit threat of further sexual violence. I would guess that with a glue-to-hair prank attack, a victim might also have a sense of implicit threat of further assault, but the way that sort of attack would escalate is unnervingly hard to predict. Which is all to say that if the attacker dumped glue in my hair and then left immediately, that might be about a 6 for me compared to my experience of over the clothes touching. But if he stuck around, he'd ratchet it up to a 10."

"My initial reaction is a 10. Not a 10 in the sense that it's the absolute worst case harassment scenario I can imagine, but 10 in the sense that it is very very very not okay and would cause some sort of lingering trauma, *especially* if this happened to me while I were alone. . . But I don't like being touched and I don't like drunk or aggressive men and I would be very upset by this."

I think that the remark about "worse than being groped, but on a different axis" gets to what I was trying to say. I do believe that an attack like this would be incredibly unnerving and would leave a lingering fear and paranoia. Thinking of the prank as "harmless" or "temporary" because the glue eventually washes out kind of misses the point. The physical sensation of a stranger's hands on your body only lingers for a short while, but the effects are more long lasting.

I guess what I'm asking for is a recut of A Canterbury Tale with most of the "glue man" plot excised, please and thank you?
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Takoma1 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:31 am

I'm not entirely sure what to make of Bedeviled.

The central premise (of a woman on an island being mistreated and abused by literally everyone) is effectively horrific and harrowing. But one of the major themes--that of complicity by inaction--didn't totally make sense to me.

The film tries to establish the main character's selfish nature by having her shy away from wanting to testify about the brutal beating of a woman that she witnessed. But her reasons for wanting to stay out of it are actually pretty sympathetic: the men who committed the crime are incredibly violent, and the police do a horrible job of preventing them from learning that she's their witness AND letting them openly intimidate her in the police parking lot.

The way that the main character observes the abuse of her childhood friend without comment just . . . didn't make much sense to me. Here's the thing about people who are abusive, and especially people who are sexually predatory: they don't just confine themselves to one victim. I have a really, really hard time believing that someone who has been living in a city wouldn't have the instinct of danger. And also believing that two (possibly three) openly sexually predatory men would keep their distance from a beautiful new arrival.

A much more convincing dynamic comes up when we see a flashback of the two friends as children. Tormented by a group of boys, the main character runs off, leaving her friend to fight off (and eventually be hurt and molested by) the boys. This makes sense: it's a selfish, "better her than me" mentality and it makes emotional and logical sense. Bringing this dynamic into their adult story would have made the film more convincing for me.

The second half (the revenge portion) of the film was mostly satisfying, but I wish that it had been built on stronger thematic ground. The theme of collective complicity is interesting, but the characters of the island folk are pretty shallowly drawn. They hate the wife but are okay with the prostitute? They aspire to, what, live on the island with just them and their sons? To what end? If there were incestuous tones to this desire, I didn't see it. And without wives/children, their bloodline will die out.

The revenge sequence was interesting and bloody and compelling--with some really nice "the hunter has become the hunted" reversals--I wish that the first half had made more sense and had laid more solid thematic groundwork.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Death Proof » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:40 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:53 pm
Now you need to check out 8 Diagram Pole Fighter.

Also, nice to see someone not hate on Spectre. I sort of love it.
Not my favorite Craig but I found it entertaining. I especially loved the opening sequence.

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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:16 am

I finally found time to revisit Lynch's The Elephant Man, and I'm now in love with it. The makeup effects are fantastic, it has excellent twin performances from Hurt and Hopkins, and very little, if any sentimentalism (which is saying something considering what the film is about). In fact, the few sentimental moments in this film actually work really well (the subway scene and the ending). Initially, I was disappointed with how historically inaccurate this film was, but I'd now argue that this film (and quite a number of historical dramas) intentionally divert from the real world to make an artistic point. Yes, Mr. Bytes isn't a real person, but including him in the film makes for an excellent contrast between him and Dr. Treves to ruminate over which is whether Treves is treating him in a similar way as Mr. Bytes did since he allows people to observe him in the hospital. I found the moral implications this gave to the film to be really interesting. Like Eraserhead, this film also contains various shots of industrialization. While industrialization was one of the causes of Henry's disconnected mental state in Eraserhead, the shots of it in this film instead serve to give a slightly dismal feel to the streets of London, making for an effective motif. Overall, I'm glad I finally watched this again as it further cemented my love for Lynch.

9/10
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:50 am

Avengers: Endgame - C+

These movies just really aren't for me. Not a big fan of the Russos' directorial style outside of what's been previzzed, and don't think the sub-stories are told particularly well. Their best flick in this saga, to me, is still The Winter Soldier.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Patrick McGroin » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:24 pm

DaMU wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:50 am
Avengers: Endgame - C+

These movies just really aren't for me. Not a big fan of the Russos' directorial style outside of what's been previzzed, and don't think the sub-stories are told particularly well. Their best flick in this saga, to me, is still The Winter Soldier.
I'd have to agree on the WS take. I gave A:E a 9/10 largely because of follow through. When you take 11 years and over 20 movies to set something up the denouement better measure up. And it did. But as far as personal favorite goes CA:TWS would be my pick too. That and Logan. It's funny, but for all it's whiz-bangery and the introduction of Black Panther and Spider-Man into the MCU, I feel Civil War pales in comparison to Winter Soldier.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:53 pm

Patrick McGroin wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:24 pm
It's funny, but for all it's whiz-bangery and the introduction of Black Panther and Spider-Man into the MCU, I feel Civil War pales in comparison to Winter Soldier.
Same. Civil War may be my least favorite of the Marvels they've done, although, like you say, those intros are good.

What I'm really saying is, Daddy needs more Aquaman soon.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Torgo » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:12 pm

Long Shot is a breath of fresh air. It seems like ages since I've not only watched a comedy for adults, but also a good one. Charlize Theron, who plays a Secretary of State who runs for president, proves how talented and how much range she has in a role that sees her going from professional and hardworking to hilarious Molly-addled insanity. Seth Rogen's speechwriter and love interest repelled me at first because he came across like yet another one of his pothead types, but his initial behavior made his transition to a more mature and vulnerable person all the more satisfying. The supporting cast is also (mostly) game; Andy Serkis is very good as a lecherous Roger Ailes type, but I was not a fan of Alexander Skarsgard's oddly-accented Canadian prime minister. The movie is sort of like a gender-swapped update to The American President, which I also like a lot, but its political convictions are not as satisfying or as well-written as they are in that movie. It does mostly make up for this deficiency in its obvious disdain for all the media bias, misogyny and outright BS we're having to put up with lately.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Patrick McGroin » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:27 am

Speaking of which. Major bummer.

https://www.thewrap.com/marvel-spider-man-sony/
There are currently two more “Spider-Man” films in development with Tom Holland and director John Watts attached, but they will now go forward without the guidance of Marvel Studios President Kevin Feige.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:36 am

Patrick McGroin wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:24 pm
I'd have to agree on the WS take. I gave A:E a 9/10 largely because of follow through. When you take 11 years and over 20 movies to set something up the denouement better measure up. And it did. But as far as personal favorite goes CA:TWS would be my pick too. That and Logan. It's funny, but for all it's whiz-bangery and the introduction of Black Panther and Spider-Man into the MCU, I feel Civil War pales in comparison to Winter Soldier.
Ya know, I actually favor Civil War, it has probably become my second or third favorite MCU movie. But it's really because of this one nit I have with The Winter Soldier and that is the editing; so maybe not such a small nit. It is rushed throughout and, to me, it ruins a lot of tension in the film that is implied but actually never realized because of the hurried nature of the editing. While Civil War may not have that Cold War-thriller element that WS did, I just think it succeeds at what it is doing better because of the way it is paced (although it still feels a bit rushed at times) and I also love the incredibly small and very personal stakes of the film more than the giant floating death-machines in the sky of WS.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:38 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:53 pm
Also, nice to see someone not hate on Spectre. I sort of love it.
Never understood the hate for Spectre. Actually preferred it to Skyfall's nonsensical and plodding third act (although I really liked the first two acts of that film).
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:41 am

DaMU wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:53 pm
Same. Civil War may be my least favorite of the Marvels they've done, although, like you say, those intros are good.

What I'm really saying is, Daddy needs more Aquaman soon.
Yikes. I thought Aquaman was one of the worst movies I've seen since... shit, Justice League.
I happened to re-read my write-up of it today and, as scathing as it was, I'm not sure I think it's scathing enough.
Sorry, I guess what I'm saying is I can't believe anyone, especially not someone whose opinion I respect and who I enjoy dialoguing with about movies, like Aquaman more than my second or third favorite Marvel film (every one of which is probably better than every DC film but Wonder Woman, which would still only land like 12th in the MCU).
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:49 am

Wooley wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:38 am
Never understood the hate for Spectre. Actually preferred it to Skyfall's nonsensical and plodding third act (although I really liked the first two acts of that film).
While I loved Skyfall throughout, I'll take any alliance on Spectre. It's the most Bond Bond has been in a long time and that train fight is an all time great sequence for the franchise
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:17 am

Wooley wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:41 am
Yikes. I thought Aquaman was one of the worst movies I've seen since... shit, Justice League.
I happened to re-read my write-up of it today and, as scathing as it was, I'm not sure I think it's scathing enough.
Sorry, I guess what I'm saying is I can't believe anyone, especially not someone whose opinion I respect and who I enjoy dialoguing with about movies, like Aquaman more than my second or third favorite Marvel film (every one of which is probably better than every DC film but Wonder Woman, which would still only land like 12th in the MCU).
What I like about Aquaman can probably be split into three parts. (a) Its bright, colorful, and imaginative special effects. (b) Its thematic core of a "half-breed." (c) Its overall pulp-pastiche spirit. (a) reminds me of the joy I had watching Pacific Rim and Speed Racer (a little more on this below). (b) is probably the big one; the story borrows so much from Lovecraft (the devolved fish-men of the trench and the karathen) that it "quotes" him twice by including Dunwich Horror as a prop and a line quoted by Black Manta, but the film itself has this classic story with Arthur as a man stuck between two worlds, which means his miscegenated "mongrel" nature is set against the damn near Aryan Ocean Master, and the whole story spins around this clear core idea of him wanting to help while being uncertain of his place in either world and eventually coming to terms with it when confronted with the Karathen.

[Believe it or not, I got a bit emotional when Aquaman stood on top of the Karathen, the two of them working together, because it was like somebody saved the best of Lovecraft (his darkly wondrous imagination) from the worst of Lovecraft (he would've hated the idea of a mixed-race hero).]

I completely recognize that other people won't have that reaction in the way that I would. Which leaves (c). The first hour or so had me wondering if the film was gonna be worth a damn. It was frantic and sorta structurally basic, but once the initial fight with Oram kicked into gear, and then the escape, I marveled at how much fun I was having watching this sort of underwater Buck Rogers nonsense. (I think Wan's work on the Furious movie helped prep him for organizing the action.) And then the flick shifted into an amiable Indy knockoff (it's more Sommers than Spielberg, for sure) before swinging into an unapologetic Japanese sentai picture with those preposterous land-based Aqua-villains. I loved how the flick felt like a revue of the history of pulp fiction, and then it crashed right back into Wan's horror wheelhouse with the trench monsters before-- are you fucking kidding me?-- swinging into a Center of the Earth detour? Shoot it into my veins. This movie was made for me. And then the perfect scene with the Karathen as a perversion of the Lady of the Lake. (This goofball childlike "and then!" energy didn't keep up forever. The massive battle at the end was a visual feast but a little more overwhelming instead of invigorating, sort of like the Avengers fights with Thanos' massive armies. Is there any massive battle to equal Helm's Deep? I can't think of one.)

This explanation doesn't get into how well you or I think those individual sequences are done (I enjoyed them but would need to rewatch to get a firmer sense of the craft of them. The best comment I can make about that off the cuff is that I remember Wan's looping and spinning camera sometimes felt sinuous and inventive, sometimes obnoxious.)

It's fine if you don't like the flick. I don't associate respect or disrespect with any of you for the movies you like or don't like. When our differences gets dramatic, I assume you all are using different criteria to me and leave it at that. If I didn't do that, frankly, I would've tracked down and killed MKS a decade ago.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:26 am

DaMU wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:17 am

It's fine if you don't like the flick. I don't associate respect or disrespect with any of you for the movies you like or don't like. When our differences gets dramatic, I assume you all are using different criteria to me and leave it at that. If I didn't do that, frankly, I would've tracked down and killed MKS a decade ago.
And I agree with you. I only mention respect because I am always surprised when someone whose opinion I value has a wildly varied opinion from mine when I believe (right or wrong) that my opinion is based on quality rather than content. If you were to read my write-up, and I suggest you don't, it really isn't necessary between us anyway nor will it advance the discussion I think, but if you did, my gripes are all quality-based, at least as I perceive them. But perception, especially when it comes to art or film, is, as we will all agree, super-subjective, so I will just say I'm glad you enjoyed it.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Takoma1 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:29 am

I liked Spectre okay, but was largely underwhelmed by it. The action scenes were fun to see on the big screen, so I'm glad I saw it in the theater.

The whole thing with the romantic interest being like 20 years younger than him, and blatantly being like "I'm attracted to you because you're like my dad!" was very off-putting. The scene where they get off the train(?) and it straight up looks like a dad taking his daughter on vacation just made me laugh.

I will admit that I didn't really grow up with the Bond films, so I don't have much attachment to them or sense of what they're "supposed" to be. I am a fan of several of the recurring cast, like Ben Whishaw and Naomie Harris.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:42 am

If I must be martyred by DaMU for being right about the MCU and 28 Days Later... Then so be it!!!
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:47 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:42 am
If I must be martyred by DaMU for being right about the MCU and 28 Days Later... Then so be it!!!
Aww, it's no fun if you want it.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:52 am

DaMU wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:47 am
Aww, it's no fun if you want it.
And what's worse is that I really like Aquaman a lot and consider it the second best of the DC universe.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:53 am

Wooley wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:26 am
And I agree with you. I only mention respect because I am always surprised when someone whose opinion I value has a wildly varied opinion from mine when I believe (right or wrong) that my opinion is based on quality rather than content. If you were to read my write-up, and I suggest you don't, it really isn't necessary between us anyway nor will it advance the discussion I think, but if you did, my gripes are all quality-based, at least as I perceive them. But perception, especially when it comes to art or film, is, as we will all agree, super-subjective, so I will just say I'm glad you enjoyed it.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:54 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:52 am
And what's worse is that I really like Aquaman a lot and consider it the second best of the DC universe.
MAH MAN
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:03 am

DaMU wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:54 am
MAH MAN
It's the closest thing to a James Cameron superhero joint we're likely to get.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Death Proof » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:33 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:03 am
It's the closest thing to a James Cameron superhero joint we're likely to get.

Image

Shepherds we shall be, for thee, my Lord, for thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, our feet may swiftly carry out Thy commands.
So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Thief » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:15 pm

Wooley wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:38 am
Never understood the hate for Spectre. Actually preferred it to Skyfall's nonsensical and plodding third act (although I really liked the first two acts of that film).
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Thief » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:22 pm

Patrick McGroin wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:24 pm
I'd have to agree on the WS take. I gave A:E a 9/10 largely because of follow through. When you take 11 years and over 20 movies to set something up the denouement better measure up. And it did. But as far as personal favorite goes CA:TWS would be my pick too. That and Logan. It's funny, but for all it's whiz-bangery and the introduction of Black Panther and Spider-Man into the MCU, I feel Civil War pales in comparison to Winter Soldier.
I admire the commitment and overall consistency of never really dropping the ball through all those years. But, although I felt more or less satisfied with Endgame, I had issues with the way they handled several plot elements. I should ask of the comic book fans...
...how similar, if at all, was the story to the one from the comics? Particularly the time-traveling thing?
Generally speaking, I preferred Infinity War, and liked the bleak first act of Endgame. I think it really brought up the different facets of moving on after a tragedy in perfect ways (see how each one of the main Avengers was dealing with the grief), but felt like it sabotaged its own theme with how they "magically" resolved everything in the end, thus canceling in a way all the themes it was focusing on the first act.

And on the other note, I also think Winter Soldier is Top 3 of the whole MCU. Not sure if it edges out Guardians of the Galaxy as my favorite, but it is close.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by topherH » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:29 pm

Seeing how we're having a quasi group session here, I enjoyed Spectre also. I like how it stays with Craig's Bond era seriousness but flirts with Moore era fluff. The opening and the operation scene were classic. B25 finally got a name yesterday and it sounds pretty Bondish (y?).
State of Siege |Gavras, 1972| +
Deadpool |Miller, 2016| +
Z |Gavras, 1969| -
The Confession |Gavras, 1970| +
Missing |Gavras, 1982| +
The Revenant |Inarritu, 2015| +
The Hateful Eight |Tarantino, 2015| +

+ Recommended
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Takoma1 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:07 pm

Mafioso was a really excellent slow-burn thriller/drama/dark comedy.

It's about a man who takes his famiyl on vacation back to his childhood home in rural Italy. While there he quickly falls back into associations with his childhood friends. Part of being reintegrated into the community is that he ends up owing a favor to a local Mafia don.

The film is really gripping as you watch the main character slowly sliding into a hole of his own making. Enamored with being "one of the guys", he doesn't understand the price he will have to pay for becoming entangled in local affairs.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:19 pm

Thief wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:22 pm
I admire the commitment and overall consistency of never really dropping the ball through all those years. But, although I felt more or less satisfied with Endgame, I had issues with the way they handled several plot elements. I should ask of the comic book fans...
...how similar, if at all, was the story to the one from the comics? Particularly the time-traveling thing?
Generally speaking, I preferred Infinity War, and liked the bleak first act of Endgame. I think it really brought up the different facets of moving on after a tragedy in perfect ways (see how each one of the main Avengers was dealing with the grief), but felt like it sabotaged its own theme with how they "magically" resolved everything in the end, thus canceling in a way all the themes it was focusing on the first act.

And on the other note, I also think Winter Soldier is Top 3 of the whole MCU. Not sure if it edges out Guardians of the Galaxy as my favorite, but it is close.
It was very little like the original Infinity Gauntlet story-line, which involved the entire Marvel Universe including some very, very powerful cosmic characters that we haven't even gotten close to yet, including Adam Warlock (who we've at least sniffed), Death (herself, man I was hoping that was gonna be Cate Blanchett), and Eternity (literally the manifestation of eternity itself).

I didn't think they "magically" (or otherwise) resolved everything cancelling things, I think, and this is alluded to in other places I don't want to mention because of spoilers, that there are now unprecedented consequences to everyone in the world as they deal with the fallout of having lost half of everyone they knew and then find a way to move on (a major theme they actually verbalize at least twice) with their lives only to have everyone returned 5 years later. They showed this with Ant-Man who missed 5 years of his daughter's life. That made me think about the effect that would have on people, people who maybe re-married, people who have come to terms with the grief over a loved one and suddenly that loved one is back, having never known they were gone, now 5 years younger than they should be. And what do they do, these people who have returned, what is their life like, can they even get jobs? And, for The Avengers, the cost of the lives of Natasha and Tony. I thought they put a helluva lotta stakes in the movie.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:21 pm

topherH wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:29 pm
Seeing how we're having a quasi group session here, I enjoyed Spectre also. I like how it stays with Craig's Bond era seriousness but flirts with Moore era fluff. The opening and the operation scene were classic. B25 finally got a name yesterday and it sounds pretty Bondish (y?).
I agree, there's a moment (everyone knows what I'm talking about) in the opening train sequence that is just so Roger Moore. And I enjoyed it.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Thief » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:45 pm

Wooley wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:19 pm
I didn't think they "magically" (or otherwise) resolved everything cancelling things, I think, and this is alluded to in other places I don't want to mention because of spoilers, that there are now unprecedented consequences to everyone in the world as they deal with the fallout of having lost half of everyone they knew and then find a way to move on (a major theme they actually verbalize at least twice) with their lives only to have everyone returned 5 years later. They showed this with Ant-Man who missed 5 years of his daughter's life. That made me think about the effect that would have on people, people who maybe re-married, people who have come to terms with the grief over a loved one and suddenly that loved one is back, having never known they were gone, now 5 years younger than they should be. And what do they do, these people who have returned, what is their life like, can they even get jobs? And, for The Avengers, the cost of the lives of Natasha and Tony. I thought they put a helluva lotta stakes in the movie.
That's precisely what I meant. The film starts by showing us the consequences of this tragedy and, like I said, the different ways that each one of the Avengers have dealt with it.
This first act brings up some deep themes about dealing with grief, be it through focusing your mind and strengths on work (Black Widow, Hulk), through acceptance/helping others (Captain America), alcoholism (Thor), anger/revenge (Hawkeye), or simply moving on (Iron Man). The way each or most of them chooses to handle things is powerful in and of itself and since they don't know they can bring people back, the theme of how to handle pain and grief is quite powerful. When the possibility of bringing people back is brought up, most of the growth they could attain through that grieving process is lost. For example, Hawkeye doesn't really have to face the spiraling anger in which he fell because he just got his family back, Captain America doesn't have to follow through on the acceptance process he had started, because not only did he get his friends back, but also his long-lost girlfriend, also sabotaging the season 1 finale of Agent Carter, in which Peggy himself learned to move on past Cap. If anything, the growth and complete arcs of Iron Man and Black Widow might be the most complete as they both come from being more or less selfish/self-involved and closed-up to feelings and emotions to ultimately giving up their lives for their friends and humanity itself. However, the logistics of how the people that come back actually *come back* and reintegrate is never even dealt with, so there's no point in analyzing it. They just come back, "magically" at the right time, and fight and save the day, hooray! We are never faced with those questions you brought up which would've been great. Maybe they're saving some of it for future films, but based on what we got, it was a major issue for me.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:23 pm

Thief wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:45 pm
That's precisely what I meant. The film starts by showing us the consequences of this tragedy and, like I said, the different ways that each one of the Avengers have dealt with it.
This first act brings up some deep themes about dealing with grief, be it through focusing your mind and strengths on work (Black Widow, Hulk), through acceptance/helping others (Captain America), alcoholism (Thor), anger/revenge (Hawkeye), or simply moving on (Iron Man). The way each or most of them chooses to handle things is powerful in and of itself and since they don't know they can bring people back, the theme of how to handle pain and grief is quite powerful. When the possibility of bringing people back is brought up, most of the growth they could attain through that grieving process is lost. For example, Hawkeye doesn't really have to face the spiraling anger in which he fell because he just got his family back, Captain America doesn't have to follow through on the acceptance process he had started, because not only did he get his friends back, but also his long-lost girlfriend, also sabotaging the season 1 finale of Agent Carter, in which Peggy himself learned to move on past Cap. If anything, the growth and complete arcs of Iron Man and Black Widow might be the most complete as they both come from being more or less selfish/self-involved and closed-up to feelings and emotions to ultimately giving up their lives for their friends and humanity itself. However, the logistics of how the people that come back actually *come back* and reintegrate is never even dealt with, so there's no point in analyzing it. They just come back, "magically" at the right time, and fight and save the day, hooray! We are never faced with those questions you brought up which would've been great. Maybe they're saving some of it for future films, but based on what we got, it was a major issue for me.
This is sort of what drove me nuts about the film. The two most clear examples are, I think, Hulk and Hawkeye.
Hulk's issue in the prior film (his Hulk impotence) is treated as a problem that will be solved in the future, so I was led to believe it would be a focus of this story. Instead, the Hulk basically self-improved off-screen, which felt dramatically unsatisfying. He's just... better now. And I thought that was going to lead to drama in which, by trying to merge Banner and Hulk, he would face a point at which he would have to choose one or the other to focus on for the benefit of the mission, which would be a good character challenge, because he has what he wants for the entire film (the best of both worlds). And there are two opportunities where it almost seems like the film is going to prod him towards Hulking out fully (first, to plausibly pass as old Hulk in NYC, and then when he has to snap his finger. Imagine if he wasn't strong enough to handle the Gauntlet's power as merged Hulk-- oh no, he has to Hulk out fully, the thing he wants least, to accomplish the task most important to the mission! I'm not saying the flick had to do that, but something like that would've made Banner, one of the o.g. Avengers, have an internal story in this film. (Also, he and Nat deserved a real moment together in this film. They have a single exchange with no dramatic weight to it. Bummer.)

Hawkeye is the other most clearly frustrating one. After five years of vigilantism/murder, his prior crimes basically swept under the rug by Black Widow, with no accounting for his crimes and no real effort at atonement or reflection on his cruelty. Whedon introduced the concept of "red in my ledger" back in the original Avengers, so why not bring that back? Why not give Hawkeye some moral skin in the game? I mean, we're clearly meant to be looking at him as a man who's "too fargone" or right on the edge when we meet him at the beginning. But that opening moral question never developed or tested him. I feel like the obvious solution is to put him in some sort of position later in the film where he either (a) vows to go off and solve some sort of problem "his way" or (b) has opportunity and reason to cruelly kill someone late in the film and pull himself back from the edge. I'm not saying it has to be those scenarios specifically (Lord knows those could come off really hacky if mishandled - "I learned a lesson about murder!"), but something like that. I know people look at these films in the aggregate, but I think actual narrative arcs can get lost in the shuffle of re-orienting the audience to two dozen mains.
In the interests of saying something nice about the flick, though, how about that fucking bit where
Spider-Man plays keepaway with the new gauntlet? Hitching a ride with Valkyrie? Amazing. The "auto leg defense" or whatever was so silly but knowingly so. "Oh thank God I pressed the plot button!" :)
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Takoma1 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:32 am

I posted about it in the Horror thread, but Ready or Not was a fantastic summer horror flick.

B+ as a film, A+ as something to see in the theater on a hot summer day.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:51 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:32 am
I posted about it in the Horror thread, but Ready or Not was a fantastic summer horror flick.

B+ as a film, A+ as something to see in the theater on a hot summer day.
Going tomorrow evening. Pretty excited about it. Samara Weaving is awesome.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Takoma1 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:04 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:51 am
Going tomorrow evening. Pretty excited about it. Samara Weaving is awesome.
It's everything I had wanted You're Next to be.

My sister and I had a blast--we laughed so hard. The coked-up sister-in-law never failed to put a smile on my face.

And maybe best of all it just never drags. It clocks in at a pretty tight hour and 35 minutes. There was one scene of exposition at the beginning where I was like "C'mon! C'mon!", but from then on it moved at a really nice clip.

It doesn't have the thematic depth of something like Get Out, but there's some pretty solid character work. I was just very, very pleased with it, especially since I hadn't heard a single thing about it and went in just based on seeing that it had overall good reviews.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:03 am

Thief wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:45 pm
That's precisely what I meant. The film starts by showing us the consequences of this tragedy and, like I said, the different ways that each one of the Avengers have dealt with it.
This first act brings up some deep themes about dealing with grief, be it through focusing your mind and strengths on work (Black Widow, Hulk), through acceptance/helping others (Captain America), alcoholism (Thor), anger/revenge (Hawkeye), or simply moving on (Iron Man). The way each or most of them chooses to handle things is powerful in and of itself and since they don't know they can bring people back, the theme of how to handle pain and grief is quite powerful. When the possibility of bringing people back is brought up, most of the growth they could attain through that grieving process is lost. For example, Hawkeye doesn't really have to face the spiraling anger in which he fell because he just got his family back, Captain America doesn't have to follow through on the acceptance process he had started, because not only did he get his friends back, but also his long-lost girlfriend, also sabotaging the season 1 finale of Agent Carter, in which Peggy himself learned to move on past Cap. If anything, the growth and complete arcs of Iron Man and Black Widow might be the most complete as they both come from being more or less selfish/self-involved and closed-up to feelings and emotions to ultimately giving up their lives for their friends and humanity itself. However, the logistics of how the people that come back actually *come back* and reintegrate is never even dealt with, so there's no point in analyzing it. They just come back, "magically" at the right time, and fight and save the day, hooray! We are never faced with those questions you brought up which would've been great. Maybe they're saving some of it for future films, but based on what we got, it was a major issue for me.
Well, I guess,
on the one hand, what super-hero movie was gonna go with "we're defeated, everybody's dead, and we just have to move on" as the final thing? I mean, that was never, ever on the table, as these are SUPER-HEROES, and giving up and moving on is not what heroes are supposed to do in what is still a pretty traditional franchise in that sense, so I guess I never really considered it for a moment. It was always going to be about "how are we going to fix this, how do we save everyone, how do we win?" It was just a matter of watching them pull it off and what was it going to cost them. Which is what happened.
And then I guess I felt that all of that stuff you say they don't expressly go into was implied here and explored a bit more in the subsequent film and set up to be a big part of things going forward. Everyone is still changed by this, it's not like "snap, oh look, it never happened", everyone and everything has changed forever.
I found it all very, very satisfying, but I guess it's not for everybody.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:04 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:04 am
It's everything I had wanted You're Next to be.
Now ya got me.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Stu » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:31 am

DaMU wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:23 pm
This is sort of what drove me nuts about the film. The two most clear examples are, I think, Hulk and Hawkeye.
Hulk's issue in the prior film (his Hulk impotence) is treated as a problem that will be solved in the future, so I was led to believe it would be a focus of this story. Instead, the Hulk basically self-improved off-screen, which felt dramatically unsatisfying. He's just... better now. And I thought that was going to lead to drama in which, by trying to merge Banner and Hulk, he would face a point at which he would have to choose one or the other to focus on for the benefit of the mission, which would be a good character challenge, because he has what he wants for the entire film (the best of both worlds). And there are two opportunities where it almost seems like the film is going to prod him towards Hulking out fully (first, to plausibly pass as old Hulk in NYC, and then when he has to snap his finger. Imagine if he wasn't strong enough to handle the Gauntlet's power as merged Hulk-- oh no, he has to Hulk out fully, the thing he wants least, to accomplish the task most important to the mission! I'm not saying the flick had to do that, but something like that would've made Banner, one of the o.g. Avengers, have an internal story in this film. (Also, he and Nat deserved a real moment together in this film. They have a single exchange with no dramatic weight to it. Bummer.)

Hawkeye is the other most clearly frustrating one. After five years of vigilantism/murder, his prior crimes basically swept under the rug by Black Widow, with no accounting for his crimes and no real effort at atonement or reflection on his cruelty. Whedon introduced the concept of "red in my ledger" back in the original Avengers, so why not bring that back? Why not give Hawkeye some moral skin in the game? I mean, we're clearly meant to be looking at him as a man who's "too fargone" or right on the edge when we meet him at the beginning. But that opening moral question never developed or tested him. I feel like the obvious solution is to put him in some sort of position later in the film where he either (a) vows to go off and solve some sort of problem "his way" or (b) has opportunity and reason to cruelly kill someone late in the film and pull himself back from the edge. I'm not saying it has to be those scenarios specifically (Lord knows those could come off really hacky if mishandled - "I learned a lesson about murder!"), but something like that. I know people look at these films in the aggregate, but I think actual narrative arcs can get lost in the shuffle of re-orienting the audience to two dozen mains.
While I admit that you can fairly criticize Endgame for skimming over/wussing out over certain character details like the ones you mentioned there, for me, all of that is overwhelmed by it still being one of the most character-focused films the MCU has ever given us on the whole, whether we're talking about
the self-loathing, self-destructive bender Thor goes on due to his guilt over having failed to stop Thanos when he had the chance, or Nat's great monologue about how the Avengers are the only family she has now and the way that arc finds completion in her sacrifice for them later on, or pretty much anything with Tony, like his reluctance to risk losing the family that already has in the present, the moment where he gets to see his father for one last time at the S.H.I.E.L.D. base, his overwhelming joy at the resurrection of the child he felt he had failed majorly in the last movie, etc., etc. And that's just a few examples from the core 6, as it's not even going into anything that was going on with the supporting players, like Nebula coming full circle by having her fairly literally kill off the part of her self that was ever loyal to her abusive patriarch.
It's just such a relentlessly character-driven film overall that I can't fathom myself feeling cheated in that department because not every single character in it is 100% perfectly or fully fleshed-out, in light of all the things it gets so right with that aspect of itself.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Stu » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:21 am

Wooley wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:36 am
Ya know, I actually favor Civil War, it has probably become my second or third favorite MCU movie. But it's really because of this one nit I have with The Winter Soldier and that is the editing; so maybe not such a small nit. It is rushed throughout and, to me, it ruins a lot of tension in the film that is implied but actually never realized because of the hurried nature of the editing. While Civil War may not have that Cold War-thriller element that WS did, I just think it succeeds at what it is doing better because of the way it is paced (although it still feels a bit rushed at times) and I also love the incredibly small and very personal stakes of the film more than the giant floating death-machines in the sky of WS.
I feel that Civil War is the best Captain America film (and somewhat better than Infinity War to boot), because, while Winter Soldier certainly still has the best action scenes bar none in the entire MCU, and while Action is one of my favorite genres in general (as you can see), I just didn't find myself caring about anything outside of the action in that film; whatever debate & discussion contained in its allusions to a post-9/11, mass surveillance/assassination-dependent national security apparatus just felt kind of half-baked (not unlike the BS with the cell phone McGuffin in The Dark Knight, come to think of it), its super-serious, 70's-paranoia Thriller tone clashed with the film's occasionally more cartoonish moments, and I just couldn't care that much about anything to do with the story or the characters, like the scenes having anything to do with the central conspiracy, or where
Cap attended the veteran's meeting, visited an ailing Peggy, or refused to fight back against Bucky.
I just remember thinking "I should be caring, or feeling something here, but... I'm just not *shrug*". Like I said, it's still worth watching for those incredible action scenes, but I can't say I felt it lived to its full potential, while Civil War, on the other hand, while not matching its predecessor on an action level (although I still loved the apartment fight), was still superior on a thematic front, with some relatively meaty, compelling discussions on freedom versus submission (and finally addressing the collateral damage that superheroes so often leave in the wake of their battles in the process), and I found myself actually becoming engaged in the central conflict between those two warring ideals personified by Tony & Cap, and the truly personally nature of their "war", and, while a somewhat overstuffed film, even some of the supporting characters got some good screentime/development in it, like Black Panther's arc. It's still one of my favorite MCUs, and if the Russos continue in the same strong direction that they established with it and Endgame, I'd have no problem if they just kept working in this series for the rest of their careers, to be honest.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Thief » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:37 pm

Stu wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:31 am
While I admit that you can fairly criticize Endgame for skimming over/wussing out over certain character details like the ones you mentioned there, for me, all of that is overwhelmed by it still being one of the most character-focused films the MCU has ever given us on the whole, whether we're talking about
the self-loathing, self-destructive bender Thor goes on due to his guilt over having failed to stop Thanos when he had the chance, or Nat's great monologue about how the Avengers are the only family she has now and the way that arc finds completion in her sacrifice for them later on, or pretty much anything with Tony, like his reluctance to risk losing the family that already has in the present, the moment where he gets to see his father for one last time at the S.H.I.E.L.D. base, his overwhelming joy at the resurrection of the child he felt he had failed majorly in the last movie, etc., etc. And that's just a few examples from the core 6, as it's not even going into anything that was going on with the supporting players, like Nebula coming full circle by having her fairly literally kill off the part of her self that was ever loyal to her abusive patriarch.
It's just such a relentlessly character-driven film overall that I can't fathom myself feeling cheated in that department because not every single character in it is 100% perfectly or fully fleshed-out, in light of all the things it gets so right with that aspect of itself.
I more or less agree. I didn't hate the film and I think I mentioned this on an earlier post, but I walked out of it fairly satisfied by the spectacle. I think the story put them in a narrative/thematic corner, so to speak, but I guess the way they resolved things in Endgame was as satisfactory as it could be, given the position they found themselves in. Like Wooley said, this was never going to be a story where everybody's "defeated/dead", but I just wish the stakes were more real and tangible than what we got, and I wish the emotional toll on some of the characters or the implications and logistics of the "snap" had been handled better.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Death Proof » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:02 pm

I am a Fugitive From a Chain Gang - 8/10

Shepherds we shall be, for thee, my Lord, for thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, our feet may swiftly carry out Thy commands.
So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
In Nomeni Patri Et Fili Spiritus Sancti.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Takoma1 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:23 am

In the Blood

I heard people say some tepid things about this one, but I thought it was a perfect lazy Saturday night actioner.

Ava (Gina Cerano) has just married Derek and the two go off for a honeymoon on an island. Convinced to go ziplining by a local, Manny, the two are having a great time until Derek suffers a horrible accident. Things go really wrong when Ava shows up to the hospital only to find he's not there. Or anywhere. Determined to get to the bottom of Derek's disappearance, Ava stabs, shoots, and threatens her way through half of the island's population to get to the bottom of the conspiracy.

I don't know. For me this was easily as good (or better) than the kind of dumb-fun action films you get from Scott Adkins or the like. The plot manages to fit in a few unexpected twists and turns, and there aren't any major logic lapses to distract from the action. Cerano is confident in her action scenes and the no-nonsense way that the film is shot simply makes it plausible enough that she might take down eight dudes. I love how strong Cerano looks--she reminds me of a trainer at my gym. When she punches someone, you believe it hurts.

I think that this one just got added to Prime.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by The Nameless One » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:01 pm

Captain America: The First Avenger > Captain America: Winter Soldier

Both are not very high in the overall list of MCU, I have nooooo idea what people are on about regarding Winter Soldier, aside from some good action it's a plodding mess
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:57 pm

The Nameless One wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:01 pm
Captain America: The First Avenger > Captain America: Winter Soldier

Both are not very high in the overall list of MCU, I have nooooo idea what people are on about regarding Winter Soldier, aside from some good action it's a plodding mess
I just think it's the best of the Russo films because its middle section keeps the action fairly low-reality and impactful and the spy stuff breaks up the action fairly well.

I'd agree First Avenger is better.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:28 pm

I'm okay with thinking First Avenger is better than Winter Soldier. It's great and Johnston really has an aesthetic and Spielbergian sense of action that suits the film perfectly. It's one of the more cinematic MCU films.

However, I can't fathom thinking the Cap films aren't near the top of the MCU.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Takoma1 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:50 pm

I unabashedly put Winter Soldier at the top tier of the Marvel films I've seen (which is most of them). The fractured friendship between Bucky and Steve is one of the few emotional elements in the entire Marvel universe that has any teeth, and it carried over nicely into Civil War (a film I didn't love, but did respect for the character-based conflicts).

Every Marvel film sees the world in peril, and you never actually worry that the world will end. The only real stakes come from what the characters may have to personally sacrifice to achieve their goal. I felt that impact most strongly in Winter Soldier.
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