Recently Seen

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Ergill
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Ergill » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:02 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:43 pm
Looked into this a bit. Both are based on stories but Shuguro Yamamoto, but Kill! Is based on 17 Days at Fort Mountain while Sanjuro is based on Peaceful Days. Explains why they have a ton of similarities but also some strong differences in the specifics of intrigue. Thanks for the info!
Duly noted, duly noted. Thanks.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:25 pm

DaMU wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:06 am
The Enforcer (1976) - B-

Unembarrassing threequel that strikes oil by setting Clint Eastwood against Tyne Daly's gumption-filled sidekick but never ignites all that much with its Symbionese Liberation Army riff (they make this feel a little too much like an episode in a TV procedural instead of a bespoke, exciting film). Scorpio carried more menace, and the cops in Magnum Force felt more confident and lethal. But again, that relationship with Daly (who's well-cast, plausibly naive without feeling incapable) saves the day. Supposedly Eastwood was concerned that this third film wouldn't have enough action for fans of the series. I'd argue just a day on the beat with the two of them, free of the obligatory plot, would've been just fine.
I agree, this has always been one of the Dirty Harry films I liked (I really liked the first three a good bit) and the core of the film is just Eastwood and Daly and Daly really makes the movie work.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Charles » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:07 pm

The Apparition, 2012, 3rd watch (B)

It took 3 times, but I finally enjoy this trash movie. I don't remember why, but I had a pretty bad opinion of it the first 2 times, and yet I still had a positive impression of it. It's not a masterpiece at all, but it's memorable enough. Sort of a crossover between Kairo and The Beyond. I'll probably watch it again.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:02 pm

The Nice Guys (2017) - A

I can't wait to watch this again.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Patrick McGroin » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:51 pm

Who'll Stop the Rain - 7.5/10 - This is based on my all time favorite novel, Robert Stone's 1974 National Book Award winning Dog Soldiers. And since this is adapted from that book it naturally colors my perception of and reaction to it. I looked up other movies filmed and released around the same time (1978) to get a better idea of how it did in capturing the climate of that time. There's no way it measures up to something like The Deer Hunter for instance. But it does as good a job as could be expected for the time. I do think it's an ideal candidate for a remake though and can't help but wonder what someone like Nicholas Winding Refn could do with it. A more faithful adaptation would do justice to it's rather nightmarish take on the lead up to the end of the Vietnam war. Nick Nolte does a pretty good job as Ray Hicks, the drug smuggling ex-marine and merchant seaman. Tuesday Weld and Michael Moriarity costar and also deliver.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:29 pm

Crisis and A Ship To India are two very early Bergman flicks (Crisis being his first) and they certainly only hint at what's to come, as the hints of his other films are already in the DNA, with existential dread spurred by illness and family drama are already in the cards. They're much more traditional in their melodrama than his later works and are more formal and simplistic but compared to his 40's Hollywood contemporaries, he was already pushing against the boundaries of the medium.

Very good stuff if not as revelatory as Seventh Seal or Cries and Whispers.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by MrCarmady » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:14 am

Re-watched Collateral which holds up pretty well apart from that Audioslave song. Tom Cruise should play psychopathic villains more often, he's absolutely perfect here.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by The Nameless Two » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:27 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:29 pm
Crisis and A Ship To India are two very early Bergman flicks (Crisis being his first) and they certainly only hint at what's to come, as the hints of his other films are already in the DNA, with existential dread spurred by illness and family drama are already in the cards. They're much more traditional in their melodrama than his later works and are more formal and simplistic but compared to his 40's Hollywood contemporaries, he was already pushing against the boundaries of the medium.

Very good stuff if not as revelatory as Seventh Seal or Cries and Whispers.
Interesting that you mention Bergman as I added his collection to my Criterion library last night :shifty: :shifty: :shifty:

Starting with Seventh Seal as I've only seen snippets of it on TV
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Rock » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:33 am

Patrick McGroin wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:51 pm
Who'll Stop the Rain - 7.5/10 - This is based on my all time favorite novel, Robert Stone's 1974 National Book Award winning Dog Soldiers. And since this is adapted from that book it naturally colors my perception of and reaction to it. I looked up other movies filmed and released around the same time (1978) to get a better idea of how it did in capturing the climate of that time. There's no way it measures up to something like The Deer Hunter for instance. But it does as good a job as could be expected for the time. I do think it's an ideal candidate for a remake though and can't help but wonder what someone like Nicholas Winding Refn could do with it. A more faithful adaptation would do justice to it's rather nightmarish take on the lead up to the end of the Vietnam war. Nick Nolte does a pretty good job as Ray Hicks, the drug smuggling ex-marine and merchant seaman. Tuesday Weld and Michael Moriarity costar and also deliver.
I remember enjoying this, but thinking it was too much CCR when it needed to be more Stones-y heroin burnout, so to speak.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Patrick McGroin » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:13 am

Rock wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:33 am
I remember enjoying this, but thinking it was too much CCR when it needed to be more Stones-y heroin burnout, so to speak.
The CCR was Robert Stone's suggestion and once they got permission they really used the shit out of it. A remake would help that too.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:35 am

The Nameless Two wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:27 am
Interesting that you mention Bergman as I added his collection to my Criterion library last night :shifty: :shifty: :shifty:

Starting with Seventh Seal as I've only seen snippets of it on TV
Seventh Seal is the iconic one to start with. I’d say Wild Strawberries and Virgin Spring would be the best films to follow that up with. The problem with recommending Bergman is that he has many different phases as a director and he was very prolific. The Silence of God Trilogy, Persona, Hour of the Wolf, Cries and Whispers and Autumn Sonata are all what I’d say are mandatory cinema.

I hear Fanny and Alexander is right there with them but haven’t watched it yet.

I have that Criterion set so I’m just chipping away at them now.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by The Nameless Two » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:43 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:35 am
Seventh Seal is the iconic one to start with. I’d say Wild Strawberries and Virgin Spring would be the best films to follow that up with. The problem with recommending Bergman is that he has many different phases as a director and he was very prolific. The Silence of God Trilogy, Persona, Hour of the Wolf, Cries and Whispers and Autumn Sonata are all what I’d say are mandatory cinema.

I hear Fanny and Alexander is right there with them but haven’t watched it yet.

I have that Criterion set so I’m just chipping away at them now.
Duly noted, thanks for the info :). Personally, what drives the most curiosity in me is, well, The Magician. Persona also is high on my list

Seriously, I checked this thread and as soon as I went to the main page *poof* you posted a reply :shifty:
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by crumbsroom » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:09 am

I would def.put Persona above Seventh Seal or Wild Strawberries. Or the Silence of God films. Or Hour of the Wolf. Those two particular films seem to me the most dated of his films regardless of their stature.

Seventh Seal is legit great though,. regardless

Wild Strawberries...mreh.

The two best things he's ever done though are Scenes from a Marriage and Fanny and Alexander, but those are also way too daunting for the initiation
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Ergill » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:14 am

The Nameless Two wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:43 am
Duly noted, thanks for the info :). Personally, what drives the most curiosity in me is, well, The Magician. Persona also is high on my list

Seriously, I checked this thread and as soon as I went to the main page *poof* you posted a reply :shifty:
I can't speak to Seventh Seal or Wild Strawberries. I watched them so long ago, maybe high school or early college where I was checking boxes, so they don't rank as high for me in his filmography. But I can say I love Fanny and Alexander (the only of his that I own). It's an interesting mix of straight-up Bergman and a sentimental, magical streak. I can vouch for the Silence of God trilogy as well. Persona is one of those cinematic milestones you have to see. There are all sorts of reasons for people "in the know" should scoff at it, but hey man, deal with it. I also liked Scenes From a Marriage. There's a thing with Bergman, the part of him that makes him the director of resentment. So many set-ups with characters unveiling all of their hatreds of each other in loving/hating detail. Marriage gets closest to the point of self-parody, but I think there's still stuff there if you're in the right headspace. I was cool with Saraband, his last movie, too.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Ergill » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:15 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:09 am
I would def.put Persona above Seventh Seal or Wild Strawberries. Or the Silence of God films. Or Hour of the Wolf. Those two particular films seem to me the most dated of his films regardless of their stature.

Seventh Seal is legit great though,. regardless

Wild Strawberries...mreh.

The two best things he's ever done though are Scenes from a Marriage and Fanny and Alexander, but those are also way too daunting for the initiation
*heart*
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by The Nameless Two » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:38 am

Yeesh, I hope we all work on this immortality deal so I can finish all of this Great Work. Bergman is a big unknown so I must tread with due caution. Seventh Seal interests me the most because of my fascination with game theory. It's less the characters and more about the chess, for me. I want to see how the match plays out. Surely Death will not be cheated in the ordeal, but maybe I'm in for a real trip. Persona speaks to me because I'm obsessed with the psychology of the persona(s), and it's spoken influence knows no boundaries. No one has mentioned The Magician yet which I find super attractive. Silence of God sounds fascinating because I'm in communion with quite a few of my own at the moment. Virgin Spring, well, sign me up :p. Hour of the Wolf is interesting given my birth name

That's about all I can parse for now. Cheers for the info, everyone <3. I've had a long day and must rest before finishing up that Inland Empire tomorrow
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Ergill » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:13 am

I liked The Magician. It's one that falls much less under the banner of Bergman, before he'd developed all of his tropes, but that gives it its own charm. If I remember it well enough, it has a sort of chamber drama feel to it where most of it takes place in one place and time. When old Berg met his unmaker, Rosenbaum was an asshole to shit on his legacy, but he wasn't totally wrong calling him more theatrical than cinematic. One of Bergman's strongest suits was bringing some of the more powerful elements of theater to film.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:17 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:09 am
I would def.put Persona above Seventh Seal or Wild Strawberries. Or the Silence of God films. Or Hour of the Wolf. Those two particular films seem to me the most dated of his films regardless of their stature.

Seventh Seal is legit great though,. regardless

Wild Strawberries...mreh.

The two best things he's ever done though are Scenes from a Marriage and Fanny and Alexander, but those are also way too daunting for the initiation
I liked Wild Strawberries, the Silence of God trilogy (ESPECIALLY the Silence) and Hour of the Wolf more than Persona or Scenes from a Marriage. So... a mild shrug. I thought all were great.

The only ones I think are less than great (still very good) thus far are Brink of Life, Crisis and A Ship to India but they’re still very good.

Not seeing y’all mention Cries and Whispers is telling me y’all really need to watch Cries and Whispers.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Ergill » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:23 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:17 am
I liked Wild Strawberries, the Silence of God trilogy (ESPECIALLY the Silence) and Hour of the Wolf more than Persona or Scenes from a Marriage. So... a mild shrug. I thought all were great.

The only ones I think are less than great (still very good) thus far are Brink of Life, Crisis and A Ship to India but they’re still very good.

Not seeing y’all mention Cries and Whispers is telling me y’all really need to watch Cries and Whispers.
I've seen Cries and Whispers, which was good, but I guess that fell in my mind in that "Oh you silly silly incredibly bleak Bergman" vein. Yes, among his best.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:59 am

Sudden Impact (1983) - either C+ or B+

The conundrum here is that Eastwood made an uncommonly considered rape-revenge movie and then jammed Dirty Harry bullshit into it. So either the flick is the most nuanced and (at times) the most deliberately stylish of the series... or it's so nuanced that Harry feels out of place and at times almost incidental. The woman shooting rapists in the groin and the head would make for a fascinating antagonist for Harry, the logical outgrowth of his sadistic "justice"... so the film makes sure there's a "final boss" rapist who's so cruel and sweaty and gleeful that he sucks the air out of the premise. The film's approach reminded me that Eastwood directed the often arresting Play Misty For Me. It also reminded me that he once mocked an Obama chair at the RNC. When Eastwood arrives at the end on a boardwalk, backlit, revolver in hand, every bit the Western archetype he once played for Leone, the dark lighting and ominous silence could suggest a hero at last in his element, the community deliberately hearkening to frontier tropes and frontier justice. Or a monster from out of time who homes in on violence like a divining rod because that's the only way he can express himself. The core problem of Harry, never resolved in any of these movies, is that if you truly took him off the force, he'd become Rorschach before he'd become kind.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:05 am

Persona gave me one of my most memorable film watching experiences. While I initially tried to come up with an interpretation for it, I later chose not to worry about this and, as a result, It managed to open my eyes and convince me that the language of cinema was much more complex and evocative than what I had initially thought. It gets my top recommendation.

I also love Fanny and Alexander (I've only seen the three hour version though), Wild Strawberries, Through a Glass Darkly, and Winter Light. All of those are great films.

I've said this in the past, but The Seventh Seal really underwhelmed me.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Macrology » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:45 am

Fritz Lang's Die Nibelungen may be the only successful cinematic adaptation of an epic poem. I haven't read Nibelungenlied so I can't comment on the particulars of this adaptation, but it captures so many of the attributes peculiar to epics. Most adaptations of epic works cash in on the inherent grandeur of the genre, but no other film I've seen has truly engaged with the actual content and style of an epic; they reduce it all to dramatic action and special effects and heroes vs villains. Here, Lang wrestles with those qualities that set genuine epics apart from all other literature (and especially literature of the modern era): the peculiar and almost codified aesthetic sensibility, the total indifference to psychology, the expression of a worldview so counter-intuitive to modern viewers it's nearly alien.

Technically two films (Siegfried and Kriemhild's Revenge), both operate on very different planes yet make one compelling and cohesive whole - their contrast only enhances their collective impact. Siegfried, more indebted to German folklore and fairy tale tropes, is defined by its impressive and rigorous visual design; Kriemhild's Revenge is more kinetic and dramatic, a work of fearsome momentum and moral confusion, building toward inevitable tragedy. The climax bears a resemblance to the climax of Kurosawa's Ran and arguably - at least in sheer fury and scale - surpasses it.

One of those great works that feels like it gets overshadowed by its director's other great works - very likely because it is so unusual and so committed to the idiosyncrasies of its source material.
Ma`crol´o`gy
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:55 am

Ergill wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:23 am
I've seen Cries and Whispers, which was good, but I guess that fell in my mind in that "Oh you silly silly incredibly bleak Bergman" vein. Yes, among his best.
It’s like, agreed but also like... that goddamn set design and color scheme, ya know?
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:00 am

DaMU wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:59 am
Sudden Impact (1983) - either C+ or B+

The conundrum here is that Eastwood made an uncommonly considered rape-revenge movie and then jammed Dirty Harry bullshit into it. So either the flick is the most nuanced and (at times) the most deliberately stylish of the series... or it's so nuanced that Harry feels out of place and at times almost incidental. The woman shooting rapists in the groin and the head would make for a fascinating antagonist for Harry, the logical outgrowth of his sadistic "justice"... so the film makes sure there's a "final boss" rapist who's so cruel and sweaty and gleeful that he sucks the air out of the premise. The film's approach reminded me that Eastwood directed the often arresting Play Misty For Me. It also reminded me that he once mocked an Obama chair at the RNC. When Eastwood arrives at the end on a boardwalk, backlit, revolver in hand, every bit the Western archetype he once played for Leone, the dark lighting and ominous silence could suggest a hero at last in his element, the community deliberately hearkening to frontier tropes and frontier justice. Or a monster from out of time who homes in on violence like a divining rod because that's the only way he can express himself. The core problem of Harry, never resolved in any of these movies, is that if you truly took him off the force, he'd become Rorschach before he'd become kind.
I agree with this assessment but it’s what I love about the film and the character in general. Building off the concept of Coogan’s Bluff, Harry exists to be an anachronism that wanders through then modern San Francisco and allows audiences to indulge in seeing real life crime dealt with in the realm of the fantastical (which is why I’d say it’s likely a huge influence on late era Tarantino).

The first film especially functions as episodic conflicts in which Harry incidentally wanders into them while trying to eat lunch or focus on Scorpio. It’s a peculiarity to the film that Sudden Impact expands into the entire film. Even when on vacation (or was it leave?), he can’t help but wander into and invade a rape/revenge film.

I much prefer SI to The Enforcer and Dead Pool for those reasons.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:34 am

Also, current ZAZ ranking:

Airplane
The Naked Gun
The Naked Gun 2 1/2
Top Secret
Naked Gun 33 1/3

Have never seen Kentucky Fried Movie in full and I’d have to rewatch Scary Movies 3-5 to rank them. I know 4 and 5 would be at the bottom (though 5 has a joke that particularly kills me and I reference it too often given that no one has seen or remembers it) but 3 could potentially unseat Top Secret. Anthony Anderson racks a shovel like a shotgun, yo.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:26 am

Macrology wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:45 am
Fritz Lang's Die Nibelungen may be the only successful cinematic adaptation of an epic poem. I haven't read Nibelungenlied so I can't comment on the particulars of this adaptation, but it captures so many of the attributes peculiar to epics. Most adaptations of epic works cash in on the inherent grandeur of the genre, but no other film I've seen has truly engaged with the actual content and style of an epic; they reduce it all to dramatic action and special effects and heroes vs villains. Here, Lang wrestles with those qualities that set genuine epics apart from all other literature (and especially literature of the modern era): the peculiar and almost codified aesthetic sensibility, the total indifference to psychology, the expression of a worldview so counter-intuitive to modern viewers it's nearly alien.

Technically two films (Siegfried and Kriemhild's Revenge), both operate on very different planes yet make one compelling and cohesive whole - their contrast only enhances their collective impact. Siegfried, more indebted to German folklore and fairy tale tropes, is defined by its impressive and rigorous visual design; Kriemhild's Revenge is more kinetic and dramatic, a work of fearsome momentum and moral confusion, building toward inevitable tragedy. The climax bears a resemblance to the climax of Kurosawa's Ran and arguably - at least in sheer fury and scale - surpasses it.

One of those great works that feels like it gets overshadowed by its director's other great works - very likely because it is so unusual and so committed to the idiosyncrasies of its source material.
:fresh:

One of the most stunning achievements of silent cinema, or early cinema more generally, and I think should rank alongside Gance's Napoleon and Eisenstein's Alexander Nevsky in scale and splendor.

Sure, Metropolis and M get a lot more attention, and they all deserve it, but this is one that I've long championed to get its seat at the elite table and one of my most anticipated future Criterion releases (no offense to Kino).
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:02 am

Some Bergman not yet mentioned:

Shame - One that tends to fall through the cracks, its Bergman's bleak anti-war film. You really can't go wrong as long as Von Sydow is cast in any Bergman film.

The Magic Flute - It goes without saying that I do not respect Rosenbaum's criticism.

Face To Face - This one doesn't seem to get mentioned much at all even though it forms an informal trilogy framed by Cries And Whispers and Autumn Sonata. Watch all three, and you'll see why Woody's Interiors is such a farce.

From the Life of the Marionettes - A unique film, but still very Bergman, mixes his Scenes of a Marriage with a macguffin murder plot to make his most sexually psychological film.

After The Rehearsal - A little more rare but the best of Bergman's strictly television films.


I will defend both Seal and Strawberries, the two films that made Bergman an international star. Seventh Seal is his most iconic film, and that iconography, soaked in popular osmosis, can act as a kind of blinder for modern audiences. The reputation precedes, and all that. It's still an impressively mythic work. Wild Strawberries, by contrast, is probably bound to disappoint modern Bergman fans by its complete absence of mythic quality, gothic themes or his striking and haunting B&W visuals. Instead, it's nostalgic, straightforward emotionally-driven drama about a long country drive, reminiscing regrets and mulling mortality. Perhaps it's my more sentimental instincts, but Sjostrom never fails to make me weep. The final shot is one for the annals.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:06 am

Ergill wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:14 am
Persona is one of those cinematic milestones you have to see. There are all sorts of reasons for people "in the know" should scoff at it, but hey man, deal with it.
Is this about the subliminal penis?
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:14 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:34 am
Have never seen Kentucky Fried Movie in full
I have a soft spot for this one. I admire its anarchy and low-budget desperation. Of course, much of the film is now, erm, a little problematic, and frankly a lot of it misses its mark (some of it is just dreadfully lame), but there's still enough moments of pure comic bliss -
the loose gorilla, the United Appeal for the Dead, the Zinc Oxide spot, the courtroom sketch, the "alarm" guy
- that simply make it too immortal in my memory. Anyway, watching it in full may not be entirely necessary.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Captain Terror » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:42 pm

I sought out Die Nibelungen as a fantasy/Tolkien fan in my early 20s and fell in love, but I mostly ignored Part 2 because Part 1 was where all the "cool" stuff was. (Dragons 'n' Dwarves 'n' stuff.) Some 30 years later, Part 2 is now my favorite. So good.

And Brunhild and Kriemhild are both great female characters in a genre that tends to treat women as prizes to be won or props to be rescued. In fact, Brunhild is literally won in a contest, but it's her reaction to the situation that makes her unique.

I agree that it's unfortunately under-discussed. When I was first getting into these things on terrible VHS prints, I found Siegfried to be much more accessible than the truncated Metropolis I had access to. Always baffled me that more people weren't aware of it.
[edit: by "accessible" I mean "easy to digest", not "easy to find".]

And man do I miss Napoleon. :( My only copy was taped-from-TV, so I haven't seen it since my VCR became obsolete. One day I'll get a region-free player. Most intense snowball fight in cinema history!
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by kgaard. » Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:33 pm

Bergman isn't known for comedy but Smiles of a Summer Night is excellent.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:33 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:00 am
I agree with this assessment but it’s what I love about the film and the character in general. Building off the concept of Coogan’s Bluff, Harry exists to be an anachronism that wanders through then modern San Francisco and allows audiences to indulge in seeing real life crime dealt with in the realm of the fantastical (which is why I’d say it’s likely a huge influence on late era Tarantino).

The first film especially functions as episodic conflicts in which Harry incidentally wanders into them while trying to eat lunch or focus on Scorpio. It’s a peculiarity to the film that Sudden Impact expands into the entire film. Even when on vacation (or was it leave?), he can’t help but wander into and invade a rape/revenge film.

I much prefer SI to The Enforcer and Dead Pool for those reasons.
His "vacation" to that small town is a cover for him investigating the rape-revenge killings while also being out of the city because he's a target after making a gangster have a heart attack. What's funny is you have him escaping a few near-death brushes with those gangsters in the front half of the film, and then that whole subplot just stops.

And yeah, I've noticed that too. At first it's odd to see that episodic structure in the films, but it becomes a part of the whole style of the thing.
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The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by DaMU » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:33 pm

kgaard. wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:33 pm
Bergman isn't known for comedy but Smiles of a Summer Night is excellent.
:fresh:

Delightful to see Bergman make an incredibly horny movie.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Ergill » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:52 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:06 am
Is this about the subliminal penis?
*snort snort*
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:14 pm

I'm genuinely a little curious which parts of Persona are scoff-worthy.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Torgo » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:36 pm

Having avoided Snake Eyes due to its lousy reviews and overhearing some Blockbuster customers' unkind words about it, I'm glad I finally took a chance with it. While it's not De Palma's best movie, I found plenty to like about it. De Palma's trademark camera trickery and love letters to Hitchcock are at full force in this movie - the standout being its famous twenty-minute-long tracking shot - and thankfully, both are more meaningful than not. I like how the shot reveals who Santoro is, his relationships - such as his friendship with navy commander Kevin Dunne (Gary Sinise) - and for how it culminates with the match. Speaking of Sinise, De Palma's direction of actors and actresses is not his strength, but I was impressed with the performances overall, with his being the highlight. Again, the long tracking shot is a gem, but some of the other camera acrobatics amount to not much more than showing off. For instance, I missed a lot of what was said during a few walk and talks because I was too busy admiring the artistry. Not to mention, and not to spoil things too much - oh, and pardon the gambling pun - but while the biggest reveal and when it takes place is meant to surprise, it also seems like the movie shows its hand too early. Everything that follows had me on the edge of my seat, though, and the movie ends up being a very satisfying mystery thriller for how it asks if corruption and double dealing in America is the norm rather than the exception.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Ergill » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:53 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:14 pm
I'm genuinely a little curious which parts of Persona are scoff-worthy.
Been a decade since I've seen it, so I don't have a list. I'm thinking at the more generic level of it being almost a parody of an "experimental film". I remember Izzy feeling something like this. The main way in which I think I can sympathize is that, for me, Bergman gets less interesting the more on-the-nose and slap-you-across-the-face his symbolism gets. Like, yes, he's playing chess with Death. Very well. Beyond that initial recognition the aesthetic experience falls flat. But ultimately I like Persona, and I wouldn't want to reduce it to that.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Macrology » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:53 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:26 am
:fresh:

One of the most stunning achievements of silent cinema, or early cinema more generally, and I think should rank alongside Gance's Napoleon and Eisenstein's Alexander Nevsky in scale and splendor.

Sure, Metropolis and M get a lot more attention, and they all deserve it, but this is one that I've long championed to get its seat at the elite table and one of my most anticipated future Criterion releases (no offense to Kino).
I bought the Masters of Cinema release, which is gorgeous. Not exactly packed with extras, but their written supplements are always top quality.

As for Persona, I don't think the movie is scoff-worthy, exactly, but it's one of those arthouse films whose style is lends itself to parody, and many comedians have capitalized on that. If you watch the film with those parodies in mind, it could impact your viewing and potentially undermine the film's stylistic audacity.
Edit: Just saw Ergill's after posting this.

(Charmingly, the official Bergman site has a whole page dedicated to parodies of his work.)
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:36 pm

Ergill wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:53 pm
Been a decade since I've seen it, so I don't have a list. I'm thinking at the more generic level of it being almost a parody of an "experimental film".
But were these formal experiments so contrived in 1966 or has the film's many imitators caused this devolution? I try to keep my estimate of films based on the time they were made, and the 60s was an unabashedly experimental period, but I still find Persona much more profound than, say, Sjoman's I Am Curious films. Anyway, I always try to avoid judging anything based on its derivatives, and Bergman, as well as Fellini and Kubrick and Scorsese and Lynch or really any artist with a singular style and voice, is ripe for glib caricature. I remember what Atomic Cow said about Malick, about how his films looked like bad perfume commercials. Well, a lot of bad commercials, and several bad films, have tried in vain to copy Malick's style, essentially becoming parody in the process. I'm not about to blame Malick for this development.


Macrology wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:53 pm
As for Persona, I don't think the movie is scoff-worthy, exactly, but it's one of those arthouse films whose style is lends itself to parody, and many comedians have capitalized on that. If you watch the film with those parodies in mind, it could impact your viewing and potentially undermine the film's stylistic audacity.
This is the "popular osmosis" I was referring to. Most Americans' reference point for Seventh Seal is Bill & Ted, so when you watch the film, you almost reflexively feel compelled to laugh at it. Again, I try to keep a contextual perspective about these things.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Captain Terror » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:53 pm





Fans of eye candy (and Terry Gilliam) are encouraged to seek out the work of Karel Zeman. I regret that I didn't look into him sooner. Eye-popping stuff. I'm completely smitten. (Criterion Channel currently has a bunch, and I also found some on Youtube.)
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Macrology » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:30 pm

Captain Terror wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:53 pm
Fans of eye candy (and Terry Gilliam) are encouraged to seek out the work of Karel Zeman. I regret that I didn't look into him sooner. Eye-popping stuff. I'm completely smitten. (Criterion Channel currently has a bunch, and I also found some on Youtube.)
I'm a longtime champion of Zeman's work. He's one of those rare film artists whose style and sensibility is utterly unique; even filmmakers inspired by him (Gilliam, Burton, Wes Anderson) tend to adopt a more conservative style (and lean on more traditional narrative beats). The only filmmaker I can really compare him to is Georges Méliès: he is probably the only filmmaker to take on the Méliès legacy in its purest form, with all the visual exuberance and borderline plotlessness that entails.

The trailers you posted represent his two best films, but I've enjoyed all the stuff I've seen by him. Journey to the Beginning of Time is more stilted than his later efforts, but still quite charming (these three are included in Criterion's recent release of his films, which looks so gorgeous I've thought about buying it even though I already own all 3 films on Blu-ray). Secondrun has a release of A Jester's Tale, which falls into the same vein as the two films you posted about.

All of his films are available at the Karel Zeman Museum, which I visited while I was in Prague last year (a small but extremely endearing museum - especially if you have kids - that offers surprisingly insightful breakdowns of his aesthetics and special effects). If you're region-free, they're bilingual and dirt cheap (though I'm not sure how much shipping would cost). I bought copies of The Stolen Airship and On the Comet when I went there; the first is fun in the same way his other films are, even if it doesn't reach the same heights (I haven't watched the other one yet).

His animations don't seem quite as fluent as his mixed media films, but I haven't seen any of them except for his short film Inspirace, which is somehow crude and delicately beautiful at the same time. It's most remarkable for being (I assume) the only stop-motion animation using glass as the dominant medium:

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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Captain Terror » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:15 pm

Macrology wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:30 pm
He's one of those rare film artists whose style and sensibility is utterly unique;
This was one of the first thoughts to occur to me as I watched Invention. It's very rare when you can say "I've never seen a film that looks like this".
Macrology wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:30 pm
His animations don't seem quite as fluent as his mixed media films, but I haven't seen any of them except for his short film Inspirace,
I managed to track down all his early shorts this weekend and they are VERY reminiscent of George Pal's Puppetoons. So much so that I googled it to find out if Zeman and Pal were associates at any point. (According to my research, they weren't). They're in Czech with no subtitles, but they're easy enough to follow. Most feature a character known as Mr. Prokouk and seem like mild propaganda, urging the viewer to work harder for the good of the community and so forth. Not nearly as noteworthy as his features, but charming enough if you're a stop-motion buff.

If you're a Criterion subscriber, check out King Lavra. That one's a half-hour and goes to some pretty dark places for what's ostensibly a kids' story.


But yeah, it's a crime that he's so obscure in the US. Given my proclivities, I would've been all over this stuff as a kid. And yet I'd never heard his name until the day Criterion announced the Box Set.

EDIT: And another thing-- Although Invention is deliberately designed to look old-fashioned, as a movie it's not at all dated. I kept having to remind myself it was made in the 50s because it doesn't feel like a 50s movie, nor does it feel like a Melies movie. It's completely its own thing. Remarkable.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Ergill » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:47 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:36 pm
But were these formal experiments so contrived in 1966 or has the film's many imitators caused this devolution? I try to keep my estimate of films based on the time they were made, and the 60s was an unabashedly experimental period, but I still find Persona much more profound than, say, Sjoman's I Am Curious films. Anyway, I always try to avoid judging anything based on its derivatives, and Bergman, as well as Fellini and Kubrick and Scorsese and Lynch or really any artist with a singular style and voice, is ripe for glib caricature. I remember what Atomic Cow said about Malick, about how his films looked like bad perfume commercials. Well, a lot of bad commercials, and several bad films, have tried in vain to copy Malick's style, essentially becoming parody in the process. I'm not about to blame Malick for this development.
I can't really say how much of it comes by way of the derivatives or not. It's hard for me to really point to derivatives. I know of stuff inspired by it, but all of those have a very distinct feel to them. For all its influence and however much it comes off as the Platonic Idea of an experimental film, it also feels sui generis.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Patrick McGroin » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:29 am

Soylent Green - 7/10 - After reading a recent discussion about this in this thread I decided to check it out for myself. I thought I had watched it already and remembered it mostly for Charlton Heston’s awkward and cringe worthy attempts to come off as hip. But I guess I was confusing it with his The Omega Man gig. While that was enjoyably cheesy fun this turns out to be a pleasant surprise due mostly to a solid Heston performance as Detective Thorn. And Edward G. Robinson’s last screen appearance as Sol Roth is particularly poignant and powerful. He passed away shortly after filming wrapped and his role as Heston’s roommate and aging police “book” or researcher somewhat parallels his actual circumstances at that point. Thorn and Roth’s prickly but devoted relationship anchors the movie and adds essential substance and gravitas to the proceedings. Costars Chuck Connors and Leigh Taylor-Young contribute as well and Joseph Cotten shows up in a smaller role. This is considered a classic and is definitely worth a watch.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Macrology » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:12 am

Captain Terror wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:15 pm
This was one of the first thoughts to occur to me as I watched Invention. It's very rare when you can say "I've never seen a film that looks like this".


I managed to track down all his early shorts this weekend and they are VERY reminiscent of George Pal's Puppetoons. So much so that I googled it to find out if Zeman and Pal were associates at any point. (According to my research, they weren't). They're in Czech with no subtitles, but they're easy enough to follow. Most feature a character known as Mr. Prokouk and seem like mild propaganda, urging the viewer to work harder for the good of the community and so forth. Not nearly as noteworthy as his features, but charming enough if you're a stop-motion buff.

If you're a Criterion subscriber, check out King Lavra. That one's a half-hour and goes to some pretty dark places for what's ostensibly a kids' story.


But yeah, it's a crime that he's so obscure in the US. Given my proclivities, I would've been all over this stuff as a kid. And yet I'd never heard his name until the day Criterion announced the Box Set.

EDIT: And another thing-- Although Invention is deliberately designed to look old-fashioned, as a movie it's not at all dated. I kept having to remind myself it was made in the 50s because it doesn't feel like a 50s movie, nor does it feel like a Melies movie. It's completely its own thing. Remarkable.
Thanks for the heads up! I hadn't thought to search Criterion channel for his stuff, I added the shorts to my queue.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Captain Terror » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:53 pm

Macrology wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:12 am
Thanks for the heads up! I hadn't thought to search Criterion channel for his stuff, I added the shorts to my queue.
They've got 3 or 4 of the Mr Prokouk shorts, the rest can be found on Youtube.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:43 pm

DaMU wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:59 am
Sudden Impact (1983) - either C+ or B+

The conundrum here is that Eastwood made an uncommonly considered rape-revenge movie and then jammed Dirty Harry bullshit into it. So either the flick is the most nuanced and (at times) the most deliberately stylish of the series... or it's so nuanced that Harry feels out of place and at times almost incidental. The woman shooting rapists in the groin and the head would make for a fascinating antagonist for Harry, the logical outgrowth of his sadistic "justice"... so the film makes sure there's a "final boss" rapist who's so cruel and sweaty and gleeful that he sucks the air out of the premise. The film's approach reminded me that Eastwood directed the often arresting Play Misty For Me. It also reminded me that he once mocked an Obama chair at the RNC. When Eastwood arrives at the end on a boardwalk, backlit, revolver in hand, every bit the Western archetype he once played for Leone, the dark lighting and ominous silence could suggest a hero at last in his element, the community deliberately hearkening to frontier tropes and frontier justice. Or a monster from out of time who homes in on violence like a divining rod because that's the only way he can express himself. The core problem of Harry, never resolved in any of these movies, is that if you truly took him off the force, he'd become Rorschach before he'd become kind.
Man, I'm right there with you on this one, I could never kinda figure out how I felt about this film (I grew up in the era when the next Dirty Harry film was always a big deal).
Dirty Harry just seemed to stumble through this dark movie about a woman who's cracked after a rape and basically become a serial killer. In some ways it was a really cool idea, honestly. I mean, what do you do when your series is on the verge of becoming bloated? Take it all the way down to sombre, dark, and gritty. It's almost like I like the movie a lot as an Eastwood-directed R/R film but it's kinda strange as a Dirty Harry film and when you have to deliver on certain audience expectations at the end, maybe it undermines everything that the movie had going for it?
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Wooley » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:50 pm

Patrick McGroin wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:29 am
Soylent Green - 7/10 - After reading a recent discussion about this in this thread I decided to check it out for myself. I thought I had watched it already and remembered it mostly for Charlton Heston’s awkward and cringe worthy attempts to come off as hip. But I guess I was confusing it with his The Omega Man gig. While that was enjoyably cheesy fun this turns out to be a pleasant surprise due mostly to a solid Heston performance as Detective Thorn. And Edward G. Robinson’s last screen appearance as Sol Roth is particularly poignant and powerful. He passed away shortly after filming wrapped and his role as Heston’s roommate and aging police “book” or researcher somewhat parallels his actual circumstances at that point. Thorn and Roth’s prickly but devoted relationship anchors the movie and adds essential substance and gravitas to the proceedings. Costars Chuck Connors and Leigh Taylor-Young contribute as well and Joseph Cotten shows up in a smaller role. This is considered a classic and is definitely worth a watch.
:up:
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Patrick McGroin » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:35 pm

Wooley wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:50 pm
:up:
Good movie. I think it's a prime candidate for an HBO type of limited series run.
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Re: Recently Seen

Post by Jinnistan » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:13 pm

Ergill wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:47 pm
For all its influence and however much it comes off as the Platonic Idea of an experimental film, it also feels sui generis.
Heavy hangs the crown.
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