The Television Thread

Discuss anything you want.
Post Reply
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 629
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Wed May 08, 2019 1:19 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:34 am
Despite how poor this latest episode was, I do think there's a lot of presumption going on about the thematic purpose of the Long Night.


Yes, they cleverly subverted our expectation to be entertained.

We didn't set the theme. The show did that.
ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:34 am
Virtually everyone was predicting and wanting a climactic battle with all parties getting slaughtered in glorious battle.


I don't that that that is it -- the show just doesn't make any sense. People teleport all over Westeros. They just appear. Hundred of wights are raised around Jon as he approaches the NK and he magically hacks his way through them? The Dothraki don't have dragonglass or Valyrian Steel, so what was the big idea with a blind cavalry charge into the field? Mel shows up randomly to give the boys a light, which is nice, but the charge is still pointless. Jon yells at a dragon...
ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:34 am
I suspect we'll get hit hard with deaths of characters to conceited, power hungry or loyal that are decidedly inglorious and pathetic, like the climax of this weak episode.

It was sloppy, but I'm still a fan of the direction this is moving.


I think this week's episode was better than the "Battle of Compressed Black Pixels" which isn't saying much, but it was a step in the right direction.

Angel's conclusion was OK, but rushed. "Oh shit, we're cancelled, let's tie a ribbon on this thing!" The whole Circle of the Black Thorn thing was rushed AF and the "is Angel really bad or just faking?" plot device was a bit worn at this point. The final episode, however, had great character payoffs.

I wonder, what if Joss had been given a few more seasons and it had not been cancelled? Honestly, I think it would have died of exhaustion like Buffy. Probably good that it was killed when it was.
User avatar
Macrology
Posts: 4191
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:54 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Macrology » Wed May 08, 2019 1:21 am

Evil Prevails wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:32 am
I think like 200 people died on screen in the boardwalk s3 finale. Show was such trash after s2, should have killed Nucky and become the Jimmy show.
Seriously? I agree that the later seasons had some weaknesses, but Jimmy was such a non-entity. Buscemi's so much more fun to watch, and a far more interesting character.
Ma`crol´o`gy
n. 1. Long and tedious talk without much substance; superfluity of words.
User avatar
Evil Prevails
Posts: 12382
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:37 am

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Evil Prevails » Wed May 08, 2019 1:39 am

Macrology wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:21 am
Seriously? I agree that the later seasons had some weaknesses, but Jimmy was such a non-entity. Buscemi's so much more fun to watch, and a far more interesting character.
I don't know what to tell you other than I disagree completely. Jimmy was a total live wire, his motivations and actions were totally fucked in that hugely entertaining way, and he was very pretty with a cool haircut. I would have loved 3 more seasons of him running AC as the mad king instead of Nucky just looking constipated all the time.
User avatar
Deschain13
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:49 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Deschain13 » Wed May 08, 2019 2:50 am

Kind of irrelevant to the current conversation but MKS do you watch Peaky Blinders? I feel like that show was made just for you.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed May 08, 2019 2:57 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:19 am
Yes, they cleverly subverted our expectation to be entertained.

We didn't set the theme. The show did that.



I don't that that that is it -- the show just doesn't make any sense. People teleport all over Westeros. They just appear. Hundred of wights are raised around Jon as he approaches the NK and he magically hacks his way through them? The Dothraki don't have dragonglass or Valyrian Steel, so what was the big idea with a blind cavalry charge into the field? Mel shows up randomly to give the boys a light, which is nice, but the charge is still pointless. Jon yells at a dragon...



I think this week's episode was better than the "Battle of Compressed Black Pixels" which isn't saying much, but it was a step in the right direction.

Angel's conclusion was OK, but rushed. "Oh shit, we're cancelled, let's tie a ribbon on this thing!" The whole Circle of the Black Thorn thing was rushed AF and the "is Angel really bad or just faking?" plot device was a bit worn at this point. The final episode, however, had great character payoffs.

I wonder, what if Joss had been given a few more seasons and it had not been cancelled? Honestly, I think it would have died of exhaustion like Buffy. Probably good that it was killed when it was.
I didn't say we set the theme. You half reading again? I'm saying the anti-climax and apparent triumph doesn't inherently destroy the theme.

The battle strategy and logistics of the show have never been particularly strong compared to the spectacle. It had some particularly egregious issues on that front but the spectacle of it was very strong. I see a lot of complaints about the darkness but I'm going to trust the cinematographer and my own experience that it had more to do with HBO's compression and people not adjusting their gamma levels. It was dark but not incomprehensible.

If we're going to nitpick, let's bitch about everyone trusting Cersei not to fire her dragon killers at everyone, including the dragon, that have put themselves within firing range over a glorified aide.

Given that s5 of Angel is exceptional through and through, I don't mind that the final bits are a mini-arc that wraps it up in a manner akin to a special. The final episode is exceptionally well done.
User avatar
Thief
Posts: 1786
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:20 pm
Location: Puerto Rico
Contact:

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Wed May 08, 2019 2:59 am

Re: Boardwalk Empire
I liked the portrayal of Jimmy, but I also liked the surprise of having him killed, especially at the hands of Nucky. That event takes Nucky to another level and adds some depth to his actions in the further seasons.
--- UNDER CONSTRUCTION ---
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed May 08, 2019 3:02 am

Thief wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:59 am
Re: Boardwalk Empire
I liked the portrayal of Jimmy, but I also liked the surprise of having him killed, especially at the hands of Nucky. That event takes Nucky to another level and adds some depth to his actions in the further seasons.
Agreed. The finale is one of the few that really feels like it comes "full circle." The show really hammers home the ramifications of Nucky doing "that."
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 629
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Wed May 08, 2019 3:15 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:57 am
I didn't say we set the theme. You half reading again?
Always, but I am also open to clarification and correction.
ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:57 am
I'm saying the anti-climax and apparent triumph doesn't inherently destroy the theme.
We shall see. The way I see it, however, is that we had a tension between a massive existential threat to life (the real big bad) and the petty squabbles of humans fighting over who gets to sit in an iron chair. With the NK out of it, we're kind of left with the latter. Even if we end with jaded conclusions that reveal the pettiness of everyone involved, it's hard to see how the NK becomes anything but a throwaway plot device.
ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:57 am
The battle strategy and logistics of the show have never been particularly strong compared to the spectacle. It had some particularly egregious issues on that front but the spectacle of it was very strong. I see a lot of complaints about the darkness but I'm going to trust the cinematographer and my own experience that it had more to do with HBO's compression and people not adjusting their gamma levels. It was dark but not incomprehensible.


But it's getting dumber and dumber as D&D move forward with the writing independent of GRRM. Our smart characters are no longer smart. Would Varys really stick his neck out with Tywin, speaking openly of treason? Why are the trebuchets and troops on the wrong side of the barricade?

And it was dark. Too dark. It was Gone in 60 Seconds night scenes dark. I had every light in the room turned off and I was looking at compressed blacks smudging into brown and green. Saying that we can blame HBO is plausible, but HBO is the network airing the show. I can only account for the product they delivered on the day of the broadcast.
ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:57 am
If we're going to nitpick, let's bitch about everyone trusting Cersei not to fire her dragon killers at everyone, including the dragon, that have put themselves within firing range over a glorified aide.


I have already picked that nit.
ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:57 am
Given that s5 of Angel is exceptional through and through, I don't mind that the final bits are a mini-arc that wraps it up in a manner akin to a special. The final episode is exceptionally well done.
I wanna slay the dragon.
PrisonMike
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 12:49 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by PrisonMike » Wed May 08, 2019 8:07 am

Thief wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:38 pm
I think this recent discussion begs the question... what series do you all think had great/good finales/conclusions? Lot of people mentioning The Shield, and I agree. Others have mentioned The Sopranos, which I haven't seen, but what others? The Americans is a recent example of one that really nailed it, IMO. Maybe Boardwalk Empire to a lesser extent? What else?
The Leftovers had a great conclusion in my opinion. It did a great job at subverting expectations while keeping all the characters consistent, which has proven to be a tricky balance for many films and TV shows. Another thing I liked was how they "answered" one of the show's biggest mysteries in a way which makes the authenticity of that answer questionable.
(The possibility of Nora's story being made up, hinted by technology not working for her throughout the last season and the general theme of people concocting delusions when suffering a mental breakdown, etc.)
User avatar
Thief
Posts: 1786
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:20 pm
Location: Puerto Rico
Contact:

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Wed May 08, 2019 12:33 pm

PrisonMike wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 8:07 am
The Leftovers had a great conclusion in my opinion. It did a great job at subverting expectations while keeping all the characters consistent, which has proven to be a tricky balance for many films and TV shows. Another thing I liked was how they "answered" one of the show's biggest mysteries in a way which makes the authenticity of that answer questionable.
(The possibility of Nora's story being made up, hinted by technology not working for her throughout the last season and the general theme of people concocting delusions when suffering a mental breakdown, etc.)
I've heard lots of great things about that show, but haven't seen it. I should probably bump it up a few notches.
--- UNDER CONSTRUCTION ---
User avatar
djerdap
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:24 am

Re: The Television Thread

Post by djerdap » Wed May 08, 2019 12:37 pm

The Leftovers was slightly more miss than hit for me, but the ending was very satisfying indeed.
User avatar
Slentert
Posts: 905
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:23 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Slentert » Wed May 08, 2019 5:54 pm

Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 629
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Wed May 08, 2019 7:12 pm

Slentert wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:54 pm
User avatar
Spencie Returns
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:08 am

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Spencie Returns » Thu May 09, 2019 3:55 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:37 pm
GoT was not an exercise subversion-without-internal-logic or surprise-from-nowhere. The game has rules and people who broke them died. Ned had several opportunities to take an off-ramp from his fate.
I wasn't trying to oversimplify the story's writing. I'm the first to admit that the first four seasons are composed of wonderfully organic storytelling that despite constant surprises was very patient and cause & effect driven. It's just that I've always found the political aspects of the show to feel way more intriguing than the supernatural bits, and I figure the two are hard to juggle effectively.
User avatar
Stu
Posts: 25201
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:49 am

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Stu » Thu May 09, 2019 4:41 am

Evil Prevails wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:32 am
I think like 200 people died on screen in the boardwalk s3 finale. Show was such trash after s2, should have killed Nucky and become the Jimmy show.
Evil Prevails wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:39 am
I don't know what to tell you other than I disagree completely. Jimmy was a total live wire, his motivations and actions were totally fucked in that hugely entertaining way, and he was very pretty with a cool haircut. I would have loved 3 more seasons of him running AC as the mad king instead of Nucky just looking constipated all the time.
I agree that "Margate Sands" went a bit overkill with all the, er, killing, but it was the climax to the biggest gang war the show ever saw, and it's not like Season 3 didn't have some good, quieter character-focused moments in addition to all the expected bloodletting, like the scene at the end of "A Man, A Plan..." where, after we've already seen
Owen's dead body, we brilliantly flashback to reveal the end of his conversation with Margaret earlier, as she tells him that she's pregnant with his child, and he responds that he hopes "it's a boy", making it one of the more heartbreaking scenes in the show's entire run.
And anyway, I don't feel that replacing Nucky would've been a good idea, as Jimmy, while a tragically sympathetic figure at times, and a fitting mirror image to Nucky's silver spoon-charisma, could also just be so relentlessly depressed and downbeat to watch that he dragged the show as a whole down with him some, a quality that would've made him a poor choice for a protagonist, as they either would've had to remain true to his character, which would've made the show even more of a slog to watch than (IMO) it had been up to that point when he was nothing more than a supporting role, or, they would've had to betray his characterization on some fundamental level to make him decent protagonist material, neither of which choice I'd want to see. Better just to keep Buscemi in his richly-deserved, long-coming lead role, kill Jimmy off to make for some solid drama, and let Pitt go on to the bat-shittery of Mason on Hannibal where he had the chance to be entertaining, and then some.
User avatar
Deschain13
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:49 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Deschain13 » Thu May 09, 2019 2:47 pm

All this Boardwalk Empire talk and nobody’s mentioned the best character on the show: the guy with the face.
User avatar
Thief
Posts: 1786
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:20 pm
Location: Puerto Rico
Contact:

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Thu May 09, 2019 3:41 pm

Deschain13 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 2:47 pm
All this Boardwalk Empire talk and nobody’s mentioned the best character on the show: the guy with the face.
Ahh, the great Richard Harrow. Great character, but if I were to complain about something regarding Boardwalk Empire is that they didn't know when to let go of some characters. As cool as he was, Harrow was one of them. His last subplot felt really forced and like an obvious attempt of the showrunners to stretch his role. Still, it was a good guy to root for.
--- UNDER CONSTRUCTION ---
User avatar
Spencie Returns
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:08 am

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Spencie Returns » Sun May 12, 2019 8:17 pm

I binge watched the entirety of Barry over the last two days and was sad reach the end of season two only to realize that the last two episodes haven't aired yet.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon May 13, 2019 2:49 am

Fuck the haters. That episode fucks.
User avatar
Patrick McGroin
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:01 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Patrick McGroin » Mon May 13, 2019 4:25 am

So I'm hearing about people losing their shit over tonight's GoT. I liked it. But then I'm not invested in it to the degree some people are. It's like they have no problem with
the subpar writing and plot twists of this season's episodes but God forbid Daenerys is turned into a super villain.
My heart is still and awaits its hour.
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Ergill » Mon May 13, 2019 4:38 am

Patrick McGroin wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:25 am
So I'm hearing about people losing their shit over tonight's GoT. I liked it. But then I'm not invested in it to the degree some people are. It's like they have no problem with
the subpar writing and plot twists of this season's episodes but God forbid Daenerys is turned into a super villain.
That was something a lot of people expected, but even still, turned into another example of subpar writing and plot twists that have characterized the shittiness of the B&W run of the show. It's been fun surfing down the drain, but dear lord, these guys are stupendously out of their element. I hope to find out that Grrrrr Martin has gone back to writing about turtles.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon May 13, 2019 5:04 am

Ergill wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:38 am
That was something a lot of people expected, but even still, turned into another example of subpar writing and plot twists that have characterized the shittiness of the B&W run of the show. It's been fun surfing down the drain, but dear lord, these guys are stupendously out of their element. I hope to find out that Grrrrr Martin has gone back to writing about turtles.
Nah.
User avatar
LEAVES
Posts: 15616
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: LEAVES come from TREES

Re: The Television Thread

Post by LEAVES » Mon May 13, 2019 6:08 am

I think GoT is great - in that there’s never going to be any difficulty in discussing why films are better than TV shows. It’s always about the money. I was never impressed with the early GoT writing - until the later seasons. Such hilarity. They should never have started the show until the books were done - and probably the entire show was written. However, the latter happens essentially never outside of a David Lynch series, so... again... thank you GoT. TV can never escape the compromising effects of the money. And shitty mainstream American tastes #bunheadsforever.
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 629
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Mon May 13, 2019 9:01 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:49 am
Fuck the haters. That episode fucks.
I was happy to see Danny burn it all. The game has been wrecked. Dany knocking over the table is like a middle finger to the stupid writing.

As much as we might feel for poor Catelyn Stark to never know the truth of her husband's fidelity, you have to appreciate why he kept that on the DL to the very end. Jon pipes up to two people and the whole realm knows in a day.
User avatar
DaMU
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:19 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by DaMU » Mon May 13, 2019 3:48 pm

I cannot say with honesty that the episode fucked. At best, it masturbated.
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon May 13, 2019 4:46 pm

DaMU wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 3:48 pm
I cannot say with honesty that the episode fucked. At best, it masturbated.
Watch it again.
User avatar
DaMU
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:19 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by DaMU » Mon May 13, 2019 4:49 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:46 pm
Watch it again.
Nah, think I'll get back to Ash vs. Evil Dead.
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon May 13, 2019 6:20 pm

DaMU wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:49 pm
Nah, think I'll get back to Ash vs. Evil Dead.
It's better than Ash vs. Evil Dead.
User avatar
DaMU
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:19 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by DaMU » Mon May 13, 2019 6:51 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 6:20 pm
It's better than Ash vs. Evil Dead.
Respectfully disagree, but you do you, boo.
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon May 13, 2019 6:55 pm

DaMU wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 6:51 pm
Respectfully disagree, but you do you, boo.
Though Not Up The Butt does trump all.
User avatar
Oxnard Montalvo
Posts: 1492
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:27 am
Location: parents' basement

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Mon May 13, 2019 7:05 pm

ahahahahahahahahaha
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 629
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Mon May 13, 2019 7:27 pm

No one really cared when Daenerys was laying waste to cities in Essos, but King's Landing gets sacked and all of the sudden people think she's revealed her true colors. She's a conqueror with a mercenary army and an army of nomadic raiders. She stole the former and seized control of the latter via an impromptu BBQ. In both cases she killed off their prior leaders. For a show that prides itself on the psychological realism of the characters, most of them seem to be babes in the woods as it comes to what happens to cities when they get sacked. If Cersei pulled the stunts she pulled (breaking promises of military support, conspicuously murdering top advisor of an adversary without ransom, destroying prized military assets) before just about any conquering army in history, King's Landing would also be put to the sword.
User avatar
Patrick McGroin
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:01 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Patrick McGroin » Mon May 13, 2019 7:45 pm

Aside from the sometimes inexplicable writing, this final season and last night's episode in particular were beautifully captured. That shot of the dragon flying inexorably closer to the Red Keep while the bells toll in the background was sublime and downright elegiac. The reality of bloodlust and complete and utter apocalypse. The Clegane brothers hacking and chopping at each other amid the crumbling ruins. There's a lot here to like folks. The showrunners might not have taken a suitable route to get here but I think most people will consider that they did as much justice as anyone without a road map possibly could.
My heart is still and awaits its hour.
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Ergill » Mon May 13, 2019 9:27 pm

LEAVES wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 6:08 am
TV can never escape the compromising effects of the money.
Only a Sith speaks in absolutes.

I think the Seitz piece someone linked the other day gets closer to the trends here and the incentives. Mainstream TV and movies seem to have been on a collision course this century, trying to find serialized brands, expanded universes, to nail down and train a reliable market. If we talk about the compromising effects of money, I think it's natural to assume that it's the money doing the driving more than the medium. When ever you're throwing a ton of dough at something, whether movie or show, you're going to get a lot of overlap in the pressures put on them to make it back.

Regardless, there's lots of good stuff out there regardless and compromise seems less like a law than a variable. You gesture towards Lynch's last season of Peaks, which is almost hilariously uncompromising. Errol Morris has pushed his evolution of cinematic documentary into a pretty sweet Netflix series. David Simon has built an impressive brand out of proving the things serialized television can bring to the social realist narrative. And I'm not jonesing after any theatrical releases right now, but I'm pumped for the Deadwood coda.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon May 13, 2019 10:01 pm

Ergill wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:27 pm
Only a Sith speaks in absolutes.

I think the Seitz piece someone linked the other day gets closer to the trends here and the incentives. Mainstream TV and movies seem to have been on a collision course this century, trying to find serialized brands, expanded universes, to nail down and train a reliable market. If we talk about the compromising effects of money, I think it's natural to assume that it's the money doing the driving more than the medium. When ever you're throwing a ton of dough at something, whether movie or show, you're going to get a lot of overlap in the pressures put on them to make it back.

Regardless, there's lots of good stuff out there regardless and compromise seems less like a law than a variable. You gesture towards Lynch's last season of Peaks, which is almost hilariously uncompromising. Errol Morris has pushed his evolution of cinematic documentary into a pretty sweet Netflix series. David Simon has built an impressive brand out of proving the things serialized television can bring to the social realist narrative. And I'm not jonesing after any theatrical releases right now, but I'm pumped for the Deadwood coda.
Can we toss the Knick into this mix? Maybe Hannibal.
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Ergill » Mon May 13, 2019 10:14 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:01 pm
Can we toss the Knick into this mix? Maybe Hannibal.
I enjoyed The Knick. Never saw Hannibal. People can toss away. I mean, we can wring our hands over tiers and shit like that, or we can just enjoy the plethora of good shows out there right now. Part of what you get out of it is what you put into it.
User avatar
LEAVES
Posts: 15616
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: LEAVES come from TREES

Re: The Television Thread

Post by LEAVES » Mon May 13, 2019 10:52 pm

Ergill wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:27 pm
Only a Sith speaks in absolutes.

I think the Seitz piece someone linked the other day gets closer to the trends here and the incentives. Mainstream TV and movies seem to have been on a collision course this century, trying to find serialized brands, expanded universes, to nail down and train a reliable market. If we talk about the compromising effects of money, I think it's natural to assume that it's the money doing the driving more than the medium. When ever you're throwing a ton of dough at something, whether movie or show, you're going to get a lot of overlap in the pressures put on them to make it back.

Regardless, there's lots of good stuff out there regardless and compromise seems less like a law than a variable. You gesture towards Lynch's last season of Peaks, which is almost hilariously uncompromising. Errol Morris has pushed his evolution of cinematic documentary into a pretty sweet Netflix series. David Simon has built an impressive brand out of proving the things serialized television can bring to the social realist narrative. And I'm not jonesing after any theatrical releases right now, but I'm pumped for the Deadwood coda.
Yes, I agree, the less something resembles a TV show (single season, some as short as 4 hours!) the less likely they are to be massive fuck-ups! Simon may be the sole exception. It's highly unlikely I would trade the entirety of the Deadwood coda for the even fifth-best-shot in Long Day's Journey Into Night. You need to be watching the right stuff!

I just can't get excited about much of any of the ubiquitous "central conflict theory" bullshit American genre stuff. It's all the same Rube Goldberg Machine painted different colors.
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2649
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Mon May 13, 2019 11:14 pm

SNL has been going through one of their perennial lulls this year and has been mostly unremarkable.

I don't really care about things like "royalty", and the concept that bloodlines have some kind of special significance is abhorrent in so many ways. The only point of interest over the latest royal issue is in how its mixed race has caused so many people to lose their minds. Like with Obama, circa 2009, we're seeing how easily some people, so comfortable in their wokeness, are casually revealing their prejudice. There are, apparently, some lines which black people are still not allowed to cross.

SNL featured a sketch this week that has a rather random black woman (Leslie Jones, ever willing to be complicit in negative stereotypes), from Compton (Meghan Markle is actually from "one of the wealthiest, best-educated, and geographically contiguous historically black communities in the western United States"), trying to attend the royal baby's christening. It's basically an excuse to show an ignorant culture clash between black street culture and proper stiff-lipped English manners. It's inevitably a showcase for host Emma Thompson to abuse and beat a black woman over her lack of etiquette.

In a day of purported oversensitivity, it's always surprising to see what people choose to excuse. Perhaps this is more acceptable cooning for the Upper East Side philistines that make up the bulk of season ticket holders at 30 Rock, who pat their backs for tipping their doormen every Christmas, but this shit is ill.
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Ergill » Mon May 13, 2019 11:30 pm

LEAVES wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:52 pm
Yes, I agree, the less something resembles a TV show (single season, some as short as 4 hours!) the less likely they are to be massive fuck-ups! Simon may be the sole exception. It's highly unlikely I would trade the entirety of the Deadwood coda for the even fifth-best-shot in Long Day's Journey Into Night. You need to be watching the right stuff!

I just can't get excited about much of any of the ubiquitous "central conflict theory" bullshit American genre stuff. It's all the same Rube Goldberg Machine painted different colors.
Doubt I'd ever feel the same, but I'll take your rec and give Night a shot. I was on board with a good chunk of Kaili Blues, though it got a little too noodley for me. (I didn't get the potentially racist connotation until after I wrote that, but I'll leave it in as a warning to posterity.) Exploratory films can elicit a lot of unique affects, but sometimes they fall into similar lulls.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Tue May 14, 2019 12:47 am

LEAVES wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:52 pm
Yes, I agree, the less something resembles a TV show (single season, some as short as 4 hours!) the less likely they are to be massive fuck-ups! Simon may be the sole exception. It's highly unlikely I would trade the entirety of the Deadwood coda for the even fifth-best-shot in Long Day's Journey Into Night. You need to be watching the right stuff!

I just can't get excited about much of any of the ubiquitous "central conflict theory" bullshit American genre stuff. It's all the same Rube Goldberg Machine painted different colors.
Seen the Knick or Hannibal?
User avatar
Thief
Posts: 1786
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:20 pm
Location: Puerto Rico
Contact:

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Tue May 14, 2019 1:10 am

This GoT episode had almost everything you would want on a second-to-last episode: great directing, great performances... BUT I was not entirely sold on the writing and how things got to this point. I've aired my grievances about the last seasons of the show here before, but the effects of the lazy writing were really felt yesterday, particularly in regards to Jon and Dany. I've never been a Dany fan, but the jump from the aspiring ruler we've seen rising from Season 1 to the mass murdering mad woman we saw in this episode wasn't properly executed.
--- UNDER CONSTRUCTION ---
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Ergill » Tue May 14, 2019 1:17 am

And while I'm not bowled over by Chernobyl, I've enjoyed watching people, one after the other, ordered to march into a deeply, obviously radioactive zone. Like, hey, can you go check on the core for me? People keep not coming back.

I also feel a mystic connection to the Chernobyl disaster since I was gestating at the time.
User avatar
Rock
Posts: 1718
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:48 am
Location: From beyond the moon

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Rock » Tue May 14, 2019 1:20 am

Ergill wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:17 am
And while I'm not bowled over by Chernobyl, I've enjoyed watching people, one after the other, ordered to march into a deeply, obviously radioactive zone. Like, hey, can you go check on the core for me? People keep not coming back.

I also feel a mystic connection to the Chernobyl disaster since I was gestating at the time.
It's like the barn in F13 Part III. But for real.
"We're outgunned and undermanned. But you know somethin'? We're gonna win. You know why? Superior attitude. Superior state of mind." - Mason Storm
____
Blog!
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Ergill » Tue May 14, 2019 1:31 am

Rock wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:20 am
It's like the barn in F13 Part III. But for real.
That iteration of Jason looks like he hiked too close to the core.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Tue May 14, 2019 1:44 am

Thief wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:10 am
This GoT episode had almost everything you would want on a second-to-last episode: great directing, great performances... BUT I was not entirely sold on the writing and how things got to this point. I've aired my grievances about the last seasons of the show here before, but the effects of the lazy writing were really felt yesterday, particularly in regards to Jon and Dany. I've never been a Dany fan, but the jump from the aspiring ruler we've seen rising from Season 1 to the mass murdering mad woman we saw in this episode wasn't properly executed.
It wasn't a jump though. When was the last time she didn't seem willing to burn down King's Landing?

This has been building since she happily watched her barbarian husband dump melted gold on her brother's head. Every season, she's been justifying increasingly tyrannical actions. How many people has she burned to death? How many have been over increasingly power hungry reasons? How many times have characters had to advise her against using the nuclear option?

It's been there staring everyone in the face and was even made explicit in s2, when she has the vision of King's Landing destroyed by dragons.

She's going to justify this by Cersei's actions and how she clearly booby trapped the city with Wild Fire, which looked utterly pitiful and inconsequential next to the dragon fire.
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Ergill » Tue May 14, 2019 1:52 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:44 am
It wasn't a jump though. When was the last time she didn't seem willing to burn down King's Landing?

This has been building since she happily watched her barbarian husband dump melted gold on her brother's head. Every season, she's been justifying increasingly tyrannical actions. How many people has she burned to death? How many have been over increasingly power hungry reasons? How many times have characters had to advise her against using the nuclear option?

It's been there staring everyone in the face and was even made explicit in s2, when she has the vision of King's Landing destroyed by dragons.

She's going to justify this by Cersei's actions and how she clearly booby trapped the city with Wild Fire, which looked utterly pitiful and inconsequential next to the dragon fire.
She's had clear reasons and resentments before. Now it's just "better be feared" maybe. I think destroying the Red Keep after surrender would've been mad and fearful enough.
User avatar
Blevo
Posts: 13348
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:24 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Blevo » Tue May 14, 2019 2:00 am

LEAVES wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:52 pm
Yes, I agree, the less something resembles a TV show (single season, some as short as 4 hours!) the less likely they are to be massive fuck-ups! Simon may be the sole exception. It's highly unlikely I would trade the entirety of the Deadwood coda for the even fifth-best-shot in Long Day's Journey Into Night. You need to be watching the right stuff!

I just can't get excited about much of any of the ubiquitous "central conflict theory" bullshit American genre stuff. It's all the same Rube Goldberg Machine painted different colors.
Shit, I might have to rewatch a Long Day's, because I remember being underwhelmed when I watched it a decade ago. I haven't interacted with you for years, but still have enormous respect for your opinions and I must have missed something the first go-round. I just remember thinking "damn you, Wolfy, and your affinity for filmed plays" at the time.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Tue May 14, 2019 2:05 am

Ergill wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:52 am
She's had clear reasons and resentments before. Now it's just "better be feared" maybe. I think destroying the Red Keep after surrender would've been mad and fearful enough.
It wouldn't be enough to turn an audience against her. Everyone hates Cersei and would rationalize and justify it. There IS justification as Cersei clearly would have and DID booby trap with wild fire. She used Cersei's own tactic because Cersei always exploits that weakness.

But it's a horrifyingly terrible thing to do. It's also necessary for the entire thesis of the show to work. Having the audience align themselves with a clearly power hungry monarch-conqueror and then pull the rug out from under them by showing them what that looks like is an excellent concept.

Once again, how many times has her council told her not to burn everyone alive only to be met with opposition from her? It's not a jump in characterization as it's been bubbling nor is it treated as something with little thought. Having Clarke evoke her previous performance from Misandei's death while hearing the bells is a potent, clear moment of "breaking."

This also very clearly not "giving the audience what it wants" or "fan-fiction," well, except maybe my own but most wanted the season to build to a huge showdown between Dany, Jon, the Night King and Cersei with our heroes winning. Maybe Cersei would taunt Jon with a "what do you know about ruling" and Jon would say "I know nothing" before Tyrion delivers a death blow and the crowd uproars!

But no. This is the show vindicating itself of those accusations and giving the audience what it needs: admonishment over supporting a tyrant of their own. A lesson many people desperately need these days.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Tue May 14, 2019 2:06 am

Blevo wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:00 am
Shit, I might have to rewatch a Long Day's, because I remember being underwhelmed when I watched it a decade ago. I haven't interacted with you for years, but still have enormous respect for your opinions and I must have missed something the first go-round. I just remember thinking "damn you, Wolfy, and your affinity for filmed plays" at the time.
I believe he's referring to A Long Day's Journey into Night. It's a new Chinese release. I've got tickets for tomorrow.

I'll see how it stacks up to Endgame and The Bells.
User avatar
Blevo
Posts: 13348
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:24 pm

Re: The Television Thread

Post by Blevo » Tue May 14, 2019 2:08 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:06 am
I believe he's referring to A Long Day's Journey into Night. It's a new Chinese release. I've got tickets for tomorrow.

I'll see how it stacks up to Endgame and The Bells.
Oops, I was thinking of the Lumet film. Carry on, I'm not in my element with film stuff these days.
Post Reply