The Television Thread

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Re: The Television Thread

Post by WHIT BISSELL! » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:34 pm

Wooley wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:55 am
I did enjoy these, tided me over until the season started, anyway, especially the LW&C one.
Loved that one right down to the trademark geysers of blood. :up: :D
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Torgo » Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:00 pm

I really liked the Lovecraft County premiere. It's an ideal mix of history, mystery and horror.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Wooley » Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:14 am

Torgo wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:00 pm
I really liked the Lovecraft County premiere. It's an ideal mix of history, mystery and horror.
Look forward to it.
I found this book in a bookstore a few years ago, just randomly, looked up on a shelf and saw the word "Lovecraft" and pulled down the book to see what the rumpus was. Read the back and decided to take a flier on it. Thought it had great moments and some amateurish aspects. Have to admit I was surprised it was written about black people and about their feelings about the racism they had to deal with... by a white dude. Gave me some reservations but ultimately thought the book was good enough to pass by some friends who liked it to varying degrees. I'm hoping that it turns out well on the screen.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:06 am

Continuing my chronological journey through the MCU TV series, I started Jessica Jones yesterday. I'm two episodes in, but I'm enjoying it. Feels a lot more grounded and... less "super-heroey" than others, but I like that.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Wooley » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:40 am

Thief wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:06 am
Continuing my chronological journey through the MCU TV series, I started Jessica Jones yesterday. I'm two episodes in, but I'm enjoying it. Feels a lot more grounded and... less "super-heroey" than others, but I like that.
I liked the first season a lot. Second was also good but maybe not quite as good. Then I think The Defenders came in which was tolerable but required you to accept Iron Fist. I don't think I watched S3.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by WHIT BISSELL! » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:57 pm

Three episodes in on Lovecraft Country and I guess it's back on track after last week's rather abrupt wrapup of episode's 1& 2 arc. Haven't read the book but someone who has told me that it's a series of interwoven vignettes. So I'll keep watching. Three down, seven to go.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Charles » Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:38 pm

The first episode of the second season of The Outer Limits is sort of a terminator story where not much happens, and the second one is about William Shatner always being cold and being haunted by an underwater African puppet from Venus.

Hopefully the rest will be better, but for now I appreciate that they moved away from the structure of showing you what happens in the cold open, jerking off for 30 minutes while the characters catch up to what you know, and stapling a bad ending on all that. The basics of storytelling are there.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by DaMU » Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:58 am

Been diving into and enjoying Season One of Hannibal. This "Lecter" character seems like a real bad egg.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Torgo » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:28 pm

Sorry to share bad news on Labor Day. It had a good run, though.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by WHIT BISSELL! » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:54 pm

Well that just sucks the cheese out of a dead rats heinie. And they're just now telling people? 2020, you are indeed a rancid harlot of a year.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:20 pm

DaMU wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:58 am
Been diving into and enjoying Season One of Hannibal. This "Lecter" character seems like a real bad egg.
Oh yeah. Mikkelsen and Dancy are soooo good in this. Hope you like it.



I'm halfway through season 1 of Jessica Jones and so far, I'm enjoying its "groundness". It doesn't feel like the typical superhero show, and I like how vulnerable and flawed the lead character is.

I'm also about to finish season 2 of What We Do in the Shadows (only three episodes to go) and I'm loving it. Great comedic timing, dialogue, and performances from everyone involved.

I'm also watching a Netflix miniseries about video games called High Score. It's nothing spectacular, but it's interesting.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Captain Terror » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:26 pm

Thief wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:20 pm
I'm halfway through season 1 of Jessica Jones and so far, I'm enjoying its "groundness". It doesn't feel like the typical superhero show, and I like how vulnerable and flawed the lead character is.
The Netflix experiment turned out to be a mixed bag, but I consider Season 1 of JJ to be one of the highlights for sure.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Torgo » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:35 pm

WHIT BISSELL! wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:54 pm
Well that just sucks the cheese out of a dead rats heinie. And they're just now telling people? 2020, you are indeed a rancid harlot of a year.
No kidding. I'm thankful that such an unusual show lasted as long as it did, but it's a shame that it won't receive a proper conclusion.
Adult Swim later tweeted the below, which could mean anything, so we can have a little hope that it could happen.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by John Dumbear » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:14 pm

I love Jonny Quest...er, Venture Bros.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:04 pm

Captain Terror wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:26 pm
The Netflix experiment turned out to be a mixed bag, but I consider Season 1 of JJ to be one of the highlights for sure.
I've heard that Luke Cage and Iron Fist were dull/bad, but since I'm a very A-type completist, I might check them out when it's time. At least they're short.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by WHIT BISSELL! » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:34 pm

Thief wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:04 pm
I've heard that Luke Cage and Iron Fist were dull/bad, but since I'm a very A-type completist, I might check them out when it's time. At least they're short.
Neither of them measured up to Daredevil or Jessica Jones with IF being the weakest. Still though, like you said, it's a good idea for completists to finish up every bite. Have you or are you planning on watching The Defenders? If so, then that's another reason.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:49 pm

WHIT BISSELL! wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:34 pm
Neither of them measured up to Daredevil or Jessica Jones with IF being the weakest. Still though, like you said, it's a good idea for completists to finish up every bite. Have you or are you planning on watching The Defenders? If so, then that's another reason.
My intention is to complete the whole MCU, so yeah. Being the A-type completist that I am, I have a spreadsheet listing all their shows release dates by episode, and I'm trying to go chronologically.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Deschain13 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:57 pm

DD JJ and Punisher were all real solid for me. Luke Cage has some good moments and even Iron Fist does some cool stuff in the second season.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by DJ Rkod » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:16 pm

Thief wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:49 pm
My intention is to complete the whole MCU, so yeah. Being the A-type completist that I am, I have a spreadsheet listing all their shows release dates by episode, and I'm trying to go chronologically.
God help you when you get to Inhumans, Runaways, and Cloak & Dagger.

Luke Cage is good. The first half of the first season is dope and the whole second season is great.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:34 pm

DJ Rkod wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:16 pm
God help you when you get to Inhumans, Runaways, and Cloak & Dagger.
:D Yeah, I've heard those aren't pretty good, but my basic reasoning is they're short. Maybe I can get through them quickly. Either way, I'll decide when I get to those.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by WHIT BISSELL! » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:38 pm

Deschain13 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:57 pm
DD JJ and Punisher were all real solid for me. Luke Cage has some good moments and even Iron Fist does some cool stuff in the second season.
That's how I'd rate them- Daredevil, Jessica Jones, The Defenders, Luke Cage then Iron Fist. But you're also right about IF. The thing I found funny was how they wrapped up season two. It's final episode teased some potentially intriguing plot developments, right in time for it to get canceled.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by WHIT BISSELL! » Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:39 pm

Welp, I guess a lot of people will get their wish or, at the very least, wonder what took so long. But then again, there's still like 31 episodes left to air ("in theory" in case someone wants to split hairs).

https://ew.com/tv/walking-dead-end-dary ... a-mcbride/
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:41 pm

Seriously, I gave up after season 8, I think, and still felt it was 3 seasons too late. The show was a mess. Did it improve after that? Should I bother going back?
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by WHIT BISSELL! » Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:54 pm

Thief wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:41 pm
Seriously, I gave up after season 8, I think, and still felt it was 3 seasons too late. The show was a mess. Did it improve after that? Should I bother going back?
Ummm. I'm really not sure. I'm trying to remember where the show was at the end of S8. Okay I wiki'd it and you kinda left at a good time. Their big showdown with Negan and the Saviors. The next season kind of slowed to a crawl without that story arc. It didn't get much better until
Rick Grimes left the show. That sounds like an odd opinion to have but they sort of rebooted and flash forwarded like 7 years or so and this allowed the show to sort of go in other directions. Maggie was also MIA.
But all in all, going strictly by your take on it, you did right to leave when you did.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Stu » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:03 am

The only season of the Netflix Marvel shows I ever watched was S1 of Daredevil :oops: Good season on its own, though, with probably one of the best fight scenes in a hallway ever filmed (you hear that, Oldboy?):

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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Deschain13 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:24 am

I just finished Cobra Kai. That show is NUTS.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by DaMU » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:09 am

Hannibal S1 in the bag. Good times. Ready for S2.

Gross, though. They do a lot of murders!
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:09 am

Stu wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:03 am
The only season of the Netflix Marvel shows I ever watched was S1 of Daredevil :oops: Good season on its own, though, with probably one of the best fight scenes in a hallway ever filmed (you hear that, Oldboy?):

In terms of hallway fights with long takes, the one in Hard Boiled is probably my favorite. The amount of effort put into it is incredible.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:31 am

DaMU wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:09 am
Hannibal S1 in the bag. Good times. Ready for S2.

Gross, though. They do a lot of murders!
Don’t worry! The wholesome network had them cover the traumatizing nudity of those murders with more blood and gore!
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:45 pm

Just finished season 2 of What We Do in the Shadows last night, and it was a lot of fun. Love the interactions between the main cast.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by DaMU » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:18 pm

Thief wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:45 pm
Just finished season 2 of What We Do in the Shadows last night, and it was a lot of fun. Love the interactions between the main cast.
Jackie Daytona 4ever.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Torgo » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:45 pm

I doubt that any season of TV from this year will beat that one.
Aside from On the Run, I loved Colin's Promotion and Witches. You gotta love Lucy Punch and the talking goat.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by DaMU » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:21 am

"This ear you were sent is an opportunity."

Hannibal, you goof. :D
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by DaMU » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:41 am

BTW Raul Esparza is fantastic as Chilton in this series. He finds an excellent balance of smarm, vanity, insecurity.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Stu » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:23 am

DaMU wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:09 am
Hannibal S1 in the bag. Good times. Ready for S2.

Gross, though. They do a lot of murders!
Yeah, that was a good show; not quite on the level of the two Bs for me (Bebop/Bad, that is), but still far better than I would ever expect from a franchise that had already been milked very dry by that point, and 2 is my favorite season, as it mostly left behind the reliance on CSI-style cases of the week that held back S1 in favor of more compelling serialized storytelling, so you got some good TV to look forward to.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by WHIT BISSELL! » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:40 pm

I'm still watching Lovecraft Country but to be honest I was wavering. This last one (Episode 5: Strange Case) was exceptional though and reminded me why I need to keep watching.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by DaMU » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:56 pm

DaMU wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:41 am
BTW Raul Esparza is fantastic as Chilton in this series. He finds an excellent balance of smarm, vanity, insecurity.
Well, this aged well, hah! Lighting a candle for my poor boy Chilton. Happy to be surprised, sad I won't see more of his specific brand of childish vanity.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:08 pm

DaMU wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:56 pm
Well, this aged well, hah! Lighting a candle for my poor boy Chilton. Happy to be surprised, sad I won't see more of his specific brand of childish vanity.
Where are you at?
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Torgo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:10 pm

WHIT BISSELL! wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:40 pm
I'm still watching Lovecraft Country but to be honest I was wavering. This last one (Episode 5: Strange Case) was exceptional though and reminded me why I need to keep watching.
I liked it a lot too. It's a little too HBO at times, i.e. showing things because they can and not because they should,
like how gruesome the transformation scenes are and the department store manager's rape and torture scene with the high heel shoe
but I'm still on board.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:13 pm

Thief wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:45 pm
Just finished season 2 of What We Do in the Shadows last night, and it was a lot of fun. Love the interactions between the main cast.
I was just thinking a bit about this, and one nitpick I have is that they kinda started something with Jenna, the nerd "virgin", but they sorta went nowhere with it. Not sure if it's my expectation because she's a sorta "notable" actress, and I kinda expected to see more of her, or more done with her, but every now and then I was like "what was up with her?"
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by WHIT BISSELL! » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:26 pm

Torgo wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:10 pm
I liked it a lot too. It's a little too HBO at times, i.e. showing things because they can and not because they should,
like how gruesome the transformation scenes are and the department store manager's rape and torture scene with the high heel shoe
but I'm still on board.
I was looking for some straight up horror and it fit the bill. But it's also leaning heavily on revenge fantasy. It's only a few more episodes and even though it's not as good as Watchmen for instance I still want to see where it ends up.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by DaMU » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:57 pm

Thief wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:08 pm
Where are you at?
That was the last episode I watched. It ends with Will cleaned up nice and resuming his sessions with Hannibal Lecter.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:04 pm

DaMU wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:57 pm
That was the last episode I watched. It ends with Will cleaned up nice and resuming his sessions with Hannibal Lecter.
Ok, still halfway through the show :up:
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by DaMU » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:03 am

I didn't know Bryan Fuller was gay and an enormous fan of James Whale, and now I'm half-tempted to completely re-read this show.

At the very least, prior to learning that, I was about to poke at how much the show indulges in an almost fortune-cookie level of tete-a-tete aphorism. Some of that's always been with the Hannibal character (quid pro quo, Clarice), but this show can lay it on thick. "We all dehumanize others." "My brother was inhuman." "And you are less human for it." "Now you're dehumanizing me." I'd readily admit there's been a flirty subtext to Hannibal's affection for Will since the start. Him wanting Will for a friend doesn't quite get at how much Lecter wants someone who can understand him, who can truly understand him. It's not just curiosity, despite what Lecter might insist (and even then, curiosity's a loaded word, huh?). Still, I took the idea of camp (in the more queer-coded James Whale style, not the modern usage I'm more familiar with) as unlikely (or at least minimal) up until now, but now? Boy oh boy, Hannibal with his prissy attitude and lilting voice trying to lure Will into his nasty frowned-upon lifestyle feels very Ernest Thesiger. Try it, Will, you might like it, wink wink. And once you bring that criteria in, I want to reconsider the theatrical wordplay element.

[Sidebar: in the modern horror-camp TV Olympics, Fuller takes the gold while Ryan Murphy overdid it and sprained himself.]

[Sidebar 2: I learned about this on the KingCast podcast, where Fuller also dropped the knowledge that F.W. Murnau was gay, which holy shit. I already knew about Whale, but Murnau too? The early iconography of cinematic horror was carried into existence on the backs of some bold homosexual men making big style choices. Good on them. That is wild.]
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:40 am

DaMU wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:03 am
I didn't know Bryan Fuller was gay and an enormous fan of James Whale, and now I'm half-tempted to completely re-read this show.

At the very least, prior to learning that, I was about to poke at how much the show indulges in an almost fortune-cookie level of tete-a-tete aphorism. Some of that's always been with the Hannibal character (quid pro quo, Clarice), but this show can lay it on thick. "We all dehumanize others." "My brother was inhuman." "And you are less human for it." "Now you're dehumanizing me." I'd readily admit there's been a flirty subtext to Hannibal's affection for Will since the start. Him wanting Will for a friend doesn't quite get at how much Lecter wants someone who can understand him, who can truly understand him. It's not just curiosity, despite what Lecter might insist (and even then, curiosity's a loaded word, huh?). Still, I took the idea of camp (in the more queer-coded James Whale style, not the modern usage I'm more familiar with) as unlikely (or at least minimal) up until now, but now? Boy oh boy, Hannibal with his prissy attitude and lilting voice trying to lure Will into his nasty frowned-upon lifestyle feels very Ernest Thesiger. Try it, Will, you might like it, wink wink. And once you bring that criteria in, I want to reconsider the theatrical wordplay element.

[Sidebar: in the modern horror-camp TV Olympics, Fuller takes the gold while Ryan Murphy overdid it and sprained himself.]

[Sidebar 2: I learned about this on the KingCast podcast, where Fuller also dropped the knowledge that F.W. Murnau was gay, which holy shit. I already knew about Whale, but Murnau too? The early iconography of cinematic horror was carried into existence on the backs of some bold homosexual men making big style choices. Good on them. That is wild.]
The show is so playfully, brilliantly homoerotic. I don't think sexuality quite touches on the "homo" present here. It's deeper than that. A desire to consume. Somewhere between eroticism and phagy (this reads punnier than intended).

I think Fuller draws from a much larger cinematic well than just Harris’ novels and the film adaptations. The visual stylings of Jeunet that permeated in Pushing Daisies are giving there dark inverse, which comes out somewhere between Wong Kar Wai and Lars Von Trier.

I also think the moody, gothic atmosphere of the show harkins back to Poe. I can't recall them now, but I swear there were specific nods to the dualities in William Wilson.

All of it arrives like one of Hannibal's dishes. An odd concoction of unlikely ingredients expertly prepared.

You're about to hit a stretch of some of the best TV I've seen.

Sidenote: I knew James Whale was gay but this is the first I'm hearing of Murnau. Whoa! This definitely lays a queer foundation for the aesthetic principals of the genre.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by DaMU » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:00 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:40 am
The show is so playfully, brilliantly homoerotic. I don't think sexuality quite touches on the "homo" present here. It's deeper than that. A desire to consume. Somewhere between eroticism and phagy (this reads punnier than intended).
My read so far has been intimacy-centered. I think with everyone else in his life, Lecter's operating on pure spite, smug superiority, and manipulation. With Will, I truly think there's a deep longing for mutual understanding he can't cop to but also can't completely deny-- maybe can't even fully understand, since recognizing that need for what it really is would knock him off his pedestal. (So he just keeps reframing it as "Will, I thought we were friends," like, bitch, you know it wasn't a poker buddy you were chasing.)
I also think the moody, gothic atmosphere of the show harkins back to Poe. I can't recall them now, but I swear there were specific nods to the dualities in William Wilson.
I'd have to re-read "William Wilson." Sometimes it's hard for me to tell if something is Gothic with a deliberate Poe influence, or if it's even worth separating since the Gothic tradition is so indebted to the guy.
Sidenote: I knew James Whale was gay but this is the first I'm hearing of Murnau. Whoa! This definitely lays a queer foundation for the aesthetic principals of the genre.
It's like... of course, but on the other hand, holy shit. It's like when I caught up to the trans reading of The Matrix. "Okay, isn't that a bit of a... oh... hrmm... well, but then... wait... oh... OH."
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The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:13 pm

DaMU wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:00 am
My read so far has been intimacy-centered. I think with everyone else in his life, Lecter's operating on pure spite, smug superiority, and manipulation. With Will, I truly think there's a deep longing for mutual understanding he can't cop to but also can't completely deny-- maybe can't even fully understand, since recognizing that need for what it really is would knock him off his pedestal. (So he just keeps reframing it as "Will, I thought we were friends," like, bitch, you know it wasn't a poker buddy you were chasing.)



I'd have to re-read "William Wilson." Sometimes it's hard for me to tell if something is Gothic with a deliberate Poe influence, or if it's even worth separating since the Gothic tradition is so indebted to the guy.



It's like... of course, but on the other hand, holy shit. It's like when I caught up to the trans reading of The Matrix. "Okay, isn't that a bit of a... oh... hrmm... well, but then... wait... oh... OH."
Absolutely. It's hard to talk too much given where you are in the show but I feel like things will only strengthen this reading.

William Wilson has a lot of doppleganger/split self imagery that felt very akin to the characterization and juxtaposition of Will and Hannibal, in particularly the way they would violate editing norms to make the two seem to speak to themselves interchangeably with each other. Perhaps it's a stretch, but I'd started watching Hannibal after a Poe binge and the two just seemed to evoke the same sense of psychological horror, dread and phantasmagoria.

It also seems like Tod Browning was an eternal bachelor with no record of his romances, which given the era gives a strong implication. But he's more a question mark than the exclamation of both Whale and Murnau
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by WHIT BISSELL! » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:14 pm

Season 11 of Archer premiered last night and they basically hit reset with Archer waking up from his three year coma. There's a mix of the old and new with the gang back at their old headquarters.
There was no mention of Isis I think but most things were back to normal outside of the group's social dynamic. And this was in the process of being walked back by the end of the second of the episodes they aired.
If you weren't a fan of the show's detours over the last three seasons then this should make you happy I suppose. But if you felt the show had grown predictable and were getting tired of Archer's shtik then maybe not.
I want people to know that it's Whitner Nutting Bissell who's kicking in their door - WHIT BISSELL!
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by DaMU » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:18 pm

Might give that a re-read this weekend.
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Re: The Television Thread

Post by Thief » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:48 pm

Re: Hannibal, the relationship between Will and Lecter is one of the best I've seen written AND performed on screen. It so beautifully conveys that sense of "longing" that DaMU mentions, but through such twisted circumstances, but also that duality or symbiotic relationship. From season 1, you get that sense that Will, despite all his skills, is a fractured human being, while Hannibal is very much in control of his world. But through the course of the series, you see how both feed off each other in equal yet opposite ways. For example, Will seems to gain more strength and confidence in his abilities, while Hannibal seems to get more broken in terms of his facade and stoicism until they meet halfway. It's a thing of beauty.
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