A Corrierino Awareness Thread

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Melvin Butterworth
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:14 pm

So, controlling the borders of your nation = fascism? So, is everything fascism now?

We should note that he was responding, at least in part, to this article which argues for radically open borders

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/16/opin ... ation.html

This article closes by noting that (at the time of the writing) a new caravan was forming in Honduras and that we should simply "let them in."

OK, let's imagine what that would look like. Anyone who wants to come America can,
Manjoo wrote:if you passed a minimal background check, you’d be free to live, work, pay taxes and die in the United States.


How would one conduct a background check on a random person from Honduras? I mean, you could look, but you're not very likely to find anything. What if they have no documents? What if they use a made up name? What if our system fails to find anything in coordination with a non-cooperative foreign nation? So, in they go. And this means that billions of people would have an equal right to come into the nation. And out of the billions who could legally come, how many millions would come?

The word would get out very quickly. America, sliding as all empires do into oblivion, is still in a much better position that many people around the world. And now everyone would know that all it takes to live here is to get here. And there would be many nations happy to off-load their tired, hungry, and poor to us because they themselves cannot provide basic services for them. India recently called for 90,000 railway workers and got 25,000,000 applicants. Foreign states would probably be inclined to subsidize boatload after boatload the people to immigrate. We, of course, have robust services and could care for innumerable masses of people who would now enter our nation, right? It wouldn't matter that the people streaming in were from different cultures, speaking different languages, and without job skills translating to our service economy. We can all "learn to code" I suppose?

If we want a shining example of what this would look like, we need look no further than the shining example of California which is in no way strained under the sheer mass of humanity living there. The economy is robust and policies are fair. You can find housing in Silicon Valley and San Francisco at reasonable prices (for millionaires).
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Ergill
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:32 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote: So, controlling the borders of your nation = fascism? So, is everything fascism now?

We should note that he was responding, at least in part, to this article which argues for radically open borders

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/16/opin ... ation.html
At issue are Trump's ideology and policies, not border security as such. The NYT article doesn't represent the Democratic consensus. Frankly, it's closer in spirt to a hardline libertarian stance on immigration. The Democratic party has consistently pushed legislation for comprehensive immigration reform that includes substantially increased border security. It happened under W in 2006 and under Obama in 2013. It died in the House both times because Republican leadership refused to put it up for a vote, knowing that it would pass with Republican votes but without a Republican majority. Tacking right in an attempt woo conservatives, Clinton extended the wall in the nineties (which just increased our illegal population by settling seasonal workers here) and Obama deported more immigrants than probably any other president in American history. For all the handwringing over the wall, Democrats already offered it up to Trump several times with the requirement that he extend protection for Dreamers like he said he wanted to and like most of the country wants. Instead, he tacked further right and called for further reductions in legal immigration, something he didn't even run on:

https://bearingdrift.com/2018/12/13/as- ... esJTdBPoyg

What we've seen, in other words, is a Democratic party routinely tacking right to get legislation passed and Republicans tacking even further and further right in an endless game of shifting goalposts to no discernible end beyond whipping up fear, anger, and votes. Trump is the logical endgame of this process, bottoming out in the most racist, reactionary and purely symbolic positions of the party. For Democrats to tack even further right at this point plays into the worst incentives of our political discourse.

Frum is smarter than this.
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Jinnistan
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:42 am

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:hey I was just thinking, don't Muslims get the duel loyalty thing thrown at them, like, a lot? though not allegiance towards any one country but Islam itself.
I have to admire the, *ahem*, chutzpah of FOX News trying to double down on their charge against Omar that she believes Jews are not sufficiently loyal to America by.....charging that Muslim women cannot be sufficiently loyal to America. Because, hobgoblins? I dunno.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:56 am

Ergill wrote:People have rightly pushed back at the double-standard leveled against her, and I'd say this veers much more into the "antisemitism as cudgel" than genuine antisemitism folder.
This is obviously the reasonable read, but I'm afraid that the mainstream news is too eager to give "balance" to this cudgel, illustrated by Chuck Todd giving Liz Cheney a platform to make these charges against Omar which went largely uncontested.
Ergill wrote:This is a far throw from Tamika Mallory allegedly claiming that the Jews fueled the slave trade.
It's so depressing that anyone still takes Farrakhan this seriously. The Secret Relationship has become the Protocols for the black community.
Ergill wrote:she rejects attempts to render the movement illegal. I can't knock her.
It's clearly a 1st Amendment issue to force anyone to either buy or not buy certain products. Boycotts work because they are voluntary. On the opposite side of the coin, I also oppose certain international efforts to punish those companies, groups and individuals who refuse to join the BDS movement.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:10 am

I sure don't want to distract from today's college admissions scandal, which has caught the imagination because it involves a couple of vaguely celebrities.

Because we also saw Wells Fargo testifying before Congress today, I want to remind of a story which was quickly ignored, the Wells Fargo scandal where they defrauded thousands of college students by charging them exponentially higher fees for their debit services. The scandal is multi-pronged. You have WF fraud, you also have the schools and universities taking kick-backs from WF for pushing Wells Fargo accounts onto freshmen students, and you also have the Trump administration's Education Department deliberately burying the report for two years.

In other words, it should be a much larger story.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by DaMU » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:56 pm

Ruling for today re: Manafort.

73 total months (could've been up to 120 months).

30 of them to be served concurrent with prior 47-month ruling under Judge Ellis, so 47 + 43 = 90 months.

9 of them considered "time served" due to pre-sentence imprisonment.

Which means 81 total months of imprisonment, ~7 years.

Not what I was hoping for, but that mostly falls on Judge Ellis and not Judge Jackson, whose ruling today seems fair.

The additional indictments against Manafort from the state of New York is nice to see.
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
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Oxnard Montalvo
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:15 pm

I do not know why Beto is running for president and not the Senate. I don't think he's gonna make it.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:21 pm

also judging from the news coming out of New Zealand, we are still living in a post-Gamergate world.

my apologies to anyone reading this who is gamer. I know you're not all like that.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by LEAVES » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:50 pm

That guy is a white nationalist. His entire ethos was, "Kill immigrants - but only brown immigrants, not the ones that have only had an official territory since 1840." This has nothing to do with Gamergate and everything to do with ethno-national separatism.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:52 pm

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:also judging from the news coming out of New Zealand, we are still living in a post-Gamergate world.

my apologies to anyone reading this who is gamer. I know you're not all like that.
Note this guy's manifesto. He wants division and polarization. He's hoping for a civil war in the U.S.

There was a crazy liberal who shot up a baseball field of Republicans, but we don't blame Bernie.
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Oxnard Montalvo
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:11 pm

LEAVES wrote:That guy is a white nationalist. His entire ethos was, "Kill immigrants - but only brown immigrants, not the ones that have only had an official territory since 1840." This has nothing to do with Gamergate and everything to do with ethno-national separatism.
I wasn't being entirely serious, it was a reference to the shooter name-checking a vlogger ("subscribe to PewDiePie") who has a habit of spreading right-wing talking points.

sorry about that, I know there is much much much much more to this incident than "gamer culture".
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by LEAVES » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:32 pm

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
I wasn't being entirely serious, it was a reference to the shooter name-checking a vlogger ("subscribe to PewDiePie") who has a habit of spreading right-wing talking points.

sorry about that, I know there is much much much much more to this incident than "gamer culture".
I was reading The Guardian to find info on the shooting and there was a post that basically said, "The terrorist did something called "shitposting" where he included a lot of miscellaneous nonsense in order to generate more publicity. Journalists should be careful using anything the terrorist posted." It's basically the real-world equivalent of Mugatu training Zoolander by saying, "DON'T BE DISTRACTED BY ALL OF THE BEAUTIFUL CELEBRITIES!" Hilarious, in a sad way. This guy has to be the worst terrorist in history. Is a society defined by how pathetic their terrorists are? Or perhaps it's a complement that only the worst of the worst would be against your society, because everyone with any sense realizes that you're at least in the neighborhood of something good?
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:02 am

LEAVES wrote:This has nothing to do with Gamergate and everything to do with ethno-national separatism.
I'm not sure there's much daylight between these things. Wasn't Gamergate, at root, railing against the kind of Cultural Marxism that was forcing diversity down the throats of gamers (ie, straight white men)?

I think that the Gamergate connection has more to do with the associations with 4chan that may have been involved in his radicalization. I haven't read his manifesto, but it appears to be all over the place. The toxic stew of the kind of malicious memes, conspiracism and entitlement definitely seem relevant to the same kind of atmosphere surrounding a lot of alt-right/MSM sensibilities. I guess Gamergate is not exactly accurate, but it does capture the infantilism of their narcissism ("little boys with joysticks"). The problem with that is that it underestimates the real-world lethality of this radicalization.

I hate to be the Nazi here, but I'm about two memes away from supporting a law that would ban a whole lot of motherfuckers from the internet for good. A lot of these men deserve to sit in their boring-ass jobs, which is such a poor excuse for trolling. Unfortunately, I think that many of them would turn to torturing small animals instead.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:37 pm

Jinnistan wrote:I'm not sure there's much daylight between these things. Wasn't Gamergate, at root, railing against the kind of Cultural Marxism that was forcing diversity down the throats of gamers (ie, straight white men)?

If we're playing the association game, we can link a lot of stuff to a lot of stuff. We can Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon anything, really.

Fake reviews, representation in games, feminist criticism of video games, Doxxing, shadowbanning, Wikipedia edit wars? This is not quite the same thing as attempting to start an international race war by murdering dozens of people.
Jinnistan wrote:I think that the Gamergate connection has more to do with the associations with 4chan that may have been involved in his radicalization.


The various Chans are a gateway to potentially anything and everything, but let's bracket Gamergate (which is connected to Reddit and Twitch and who knows how many other sites) and consider the Chan boards, which are basically an algae bloom of free speech and everything that comes with it. There is a much more direct connection to Islamophobia and racism here than anywhere else. How many times now have mass shooters made their announcement that they're about to go on a killing spree on a Chan board? Why? Well, in large part, because these are the largest free speech ports on the internet. As a result, however, for the lowest of the low it is basically the only port available, so they've colonized these sites.
Jinnistan wrote:I haven't read his manifesto, but it appears to be all over the place. The toxic stew of the kind of malicious memes, conspiracism and entitlement definitely seem relevant to the same kind of atmosphere surrounding a lot of alt-right/MSM sensibilities.


The self-announced purpose of his manifesto is to sew dissent.

Joan Donovan, PhD wrote:Journalists must not annotate the NZ murder’s manifesto. The coded language is not worth your time. Moreover, his social media celebrity call outs don’t mean you need to ask those influencers to speak on this. Those references were strategically placed to create coverage.

Jinnistan wrote:I guess Gamergate is not exactly accurate,
And I think that this is why we need to be careful with casual characterizations.
Jinnistan wrote:but it does capture the infantilism of their narcissism ("little boys with joysticks").
We have a generation of lost boys out there who have retreated to video games, in part, because we don't have a use for them. We have toxic masculinity because we don't have a valorized masculinity to embrace. If your options are to be a silent "ally" because you're guilty for the sins of your father or to withdraw and play video games, you might just withdraw into video games. Why do you think Jordan Peterson is selling so many books? People want a positive vision of themselves and they want to make meaning in the world.
Jinnistan wrote:The problem with that is that it underestimates the real-world lethality of this radicalization.


We pay attention to what is widely mediated. The media drives the narrative and we follow the narrative and crazy people will hop onto the narrative. We pay a lot more attention to white girls who get abducted than we do to black girls who get abducted. We pay more attention to acts of religious terrorism Muslims in white countries like New Zealand than acts of terrorism against Christians in countries we don't care about (i.e., non-white).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... iddle-east

It's hard to keep this stuff in perspective, but I agree that the tides are rising. We're polarizing and losing resources for cooperation.
Jinnistan wrote:I hate to be the Nazi here, but I'm about two memes away from supporting a law that would ban a whole lot of motherfuckers from the internet for good. A lot of these men deserve to sit in their boring-ass jobs, which is such a poor excuse for trolling. Unfortunately, I think that many of them would turn to torturing small animals instead.
If free speech were always agreeable, we would not have to argue for it and protect it with laws.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:46 pm

Melvin Butterworth wrote:If we're playing the association game, we can link a lot of stuff to a lot of stuff. We can Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon anything, really.
It's far more relevant than that. The narrative that Cultural Marxism is shoving diversity down an unwilling nation's throat is at the heart of the anti-immigrant narrative, the "other people's babies" narrative, etc. And, since you mention it, it doesn't seem to be a coincidence that Cultural Marxism is one of Jordan Peterson's primary bugaboos.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:How many times now have mass shooters made their announcement that they're about to go on a killing spree on a Chan board? Why? Well, in large part, because these are the largest free speech ports on the internet.
It could also be that, given the manifest absurdity of the premise of the site which refuses to distinguish between sincere expression and ironic pwning, that such an announcement affords such a distance and deniability that comes with the luxury of not being taken seriously. And, funny enough, this continues after a number of plausible announcements on the site.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:The self-announced purpose of his manifesto is to sew dissent.
Yes, precisely like 4chan and its brethren. The chaos principle. Hence the association.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:We have toxic masculinity because we don't have a valorized masculinity to embrace.
What's wrong with The Rock? (Other than his non-whiteness?)
Melvin Butterworth wrote:The media drives the narrative and we follow the narrative and crazy people will hop onto the narrative.
The narrative advanced by 4chan does not receive "the media" attention, so it doesn't follow here. In fact, such incidents like this, or Elliott Rodgers, etc, surprise the media because it tends to be unaware of such narratives until they burst into violent attention.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:We pay more attention to acts of religious terrorism Muslims in white countries like New Zealand than acts of terrorism against Christians in countries we don't care about (i.e., non-white).
Please take advantage of this to double down on a number of stereotypes.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:If free speech were always agreeable, we would not have to argue for it and protect it with laws.
I guess it's necesssary to point out that the comment you quoted was facetious, but, sure, I agree with the obvious. It's a frustration drawn from the number of meaningless speakers insisting on being heard.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by LEAVES » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:13 pm

Melvin Butterworth wrote:We have a generation of lost boys out there who have retreated to video games, in part, because we don't have a use for them. We have toxic masculinity because we don't have a valorized masculinity to embrace.
When men treated women as property, that was toxic masculinity. This is not a new thing.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by LEAVES » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:17 pm

Jinnistan wrote: I'm not sure there's much daylight between these things. Wasn't Gamergate, at root, railing against the kind of Cultural Marxism that was forcing diversity down the throats of gamers (ie, straight white men)?

I think that the Gamergate connection has more to do with the associations with 4chan that may have been involved in his radicalization. I haven't read his manifesto, but it appears to be all over the place. The toxic stew of the kind of malicious memes, conspiracism and entitlement definitely seem relevant to the same kind of atmosphere surrounding a lot of alt-right/MSM sensibilities. I guess Gamergate is not exactly accurate, but it does capture the infantilism of their narcissism ("little boys with joysticks"). The problem with that is that it underestimates the real-world lethality of this radicalization.

I hate to be the Nazi here, but I'm about two memes away from supporting a law that would ban a whole lot of motherfuckers from the internet for good. A lot of these men deserve to sit in their boring-ass jobs, which is such a poor excuse for trolling. Unfortunately, I think that many of them would turn to torturing small animals instead.
Let's compare Gamergate to the guy that murdered 50 people at two mosques:

There's really no comparison.

Let's compare the guy that murdered 50 people at two mosques to the guys that mudered a lot of brown people at churches and mosques in recent history:

Oh, it's the exact same.

Just because you have an ethno-nationalist who is also interested in 4chan doesn't mean that 4chan is a more insidious force than ethno-nationalism. You can tell this, in fact, because instead of harassing women online he murdered brown people.

One of those social forces is simply immensely more conducive to real world mass murder than the other, and it has been that way for millennia. It is possible that ethno-nationalism on the internet is a huge problem, but that to me seems distinct from Gamergate. It's also the case that mass murders spawned from ethno-nationalist sentiments long predated the internet, so the power of the internet in that arena needs to be proven, though it certainly could be a driving force. It could also merely be a substitution - people spend less time recruiting ethno-nationalists in real life and do it on the internet, so the problem is the same and the number of "converts" is the same they just changed venue. One thing is certain: Ethno-nationalism is far, far more dangerous than whatever Gamergate was.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:22 pm

Jinnistan wrote:It could also be that, given the manifest absurdity of the premise of the site which refuses to distinguish between sincere expression and ironic pwning, that such an announcement affords such a distance and deniability that comes with the luxury of not being taken seriously. And, funny enough, this continues after a number of plausible announcements on the site.
Interesting thought.

I wonder how much of it is mischief that takes wings. Like the resurgence of flat Earth shit. Who in their right mind would believe that? But... ...if you're impressionable and you stumble into YouTube videos with "proofs" and questions and when you have pranksters who pretend to believe, how many people wind up the unwitting butt of the joke while in the process making the joke real. Kind of like Slender Man becoming "real" in a certain sense when two little girls stab another girl to appease him or David Foster Wallace's warning about the exhaustion of irony.

There are a lot of people who are concerned that social media and the internet is threatening our democracy, but strongly suspect that what we're witnessing are the destabilizing effects of the democratizing of the public sphere. It's not that we're losing democracy, but we're terrified at the unintended democratizing effects (anyone can say anything and really have a platform and no matter how crazy you are there is an echo chamber for you get affirmation in) of the information age.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ace » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:37 pm

IDK where to post this. But the poster who went by "Joss Whedon" has died. Some of you knew him as Adam in real life. He actually passed a few weeks ago. I only found out cuz today would be his birthday.
Co host of the Film Raiders Podcast.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:46 pm

LEAVES wrote:Just because you have an ethno-nationalist who is also interested in 4chan doesn't mean that 4chan is a more insidious force than ethno-nationalism.
I think that you're confusing the medium with the message. The latter being ethno-nationalism, an insidious force indeed, but that's a message which has long been associated with the alt-right internet culture, the meme-generating medium which festers these messages. It's worth considering the engine itself, the culture which has given rise to this. Gamergate was always about more than video games, it was a bellweather of the kind of authoritarian backlash against social progress for which ethno-nationalism is a logical extension. The fact that it also encompases anti-feminism and homophobia as its primary mission doesn't dispel the fact that it is, fundamentally, an anti-tolerance movement, which pushed the narrative of a Marxist conspiracy to rewrite white men into subservient roles. This is not appreciably distinct from the narrative of white genocide, of being replaced. These are all tentacles of the same invertebrate beast.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:01 pm

Melvin Butterworth wrote:Like the resurgence of flat Earth shit. Who in their right mind would believe that?
I was under the impression that the flat earth thing, in its recent incarnation, was another prank forged by 4chan which became its own creature as more and more people started taking it seriously. It requires such a revolutionary dismissal of elementary knowledge that it's become like an uber-conspiracy. It's not surprising that flat-earthers tend to also subscribe to most other trendy conspiracies as well, as if the only things they're willing to believe are the most defiantly ludicrous. I've also noticed that a number of fundamentalist Christians have joined the flat-earther crowd, as it fits their cosmology better than natural science.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:There are a lot of people who are concerned that social media and the internet is threatening our democracy, but strongly suspect that what we're witnessing are the destabilizing effects of the democratizing of the public sphere. It's not that we're losing democracy, but we're terrified at the unintended democratizing effects (anyone can say anything and really have a platform and no matter how crazy you are there is an echo chamber for you get affirmation in) of the information age.
The problem is not one of democracy though. Democracy would presume a sincerity of voices, each person weighing in on their beliefs. The problem is anonymity, which is not democracy, unless we include the democratic definition to include fake voices. The problem is disinformation, as distinguished from misinformation for being deliberate and weaponized. The problem is a largely uneducated, or at least unmotivated, populace which doesn't exercise the basic media literacy required to defend oneself from propaganda. One of the funniest things about reading Snopes is in how many fake news stories originate from sites which explicitly designate themselves as satire. Nobody gives a fuck. I'm sure many of them don't bother to read past the headlines on their Facebook feed.

I'll go as far as to agree that we're witnessing the destabilizing effects of people coming to terms with the inherent responsibilities that democracy demands, but I wouldn't call that a symptom of too much democracy.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by LEAVES » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:13 pm

Jinnistan wrote: I think that you're confusing the medium with the message. The latter being ethno-nationalism, an insidious force indeed, but that's a message which has long been associated with the alt-right internet culture, the meme-generating medium which festers these messages. It's worth considering the engine itself, the culture which has given rise to this. Gamergate was always about more than video games, it was a bellweather of the kind of authoritarian backlash against social progress for which ethno-nationalism is a logical extension. The fact that it also encompases anti-feminism and homophobia as its primary mission doesn't dispel the fact that it is, fundamentally, an anti-tolerance movement, which pushed the narrative of a Marxist conspiracy to rewrite white men into subservient roles. This is not appreciably distinct from the narrative of white genocide, of being replaced. These are all tentacles of the same invertebrate beast.
I'm not saying that they're not "capable of co-habitation", but they're certainly not co-equal or even co-habiting. How many people were even involved in Gamergate? Not that many. How many people are white nationalists? This article claims 11 million in the US. Wikipedia says that 10 thousand people wrote in support of Gamergate via anonymoous accounts on Twitter - and likely far, far, far fewer even online harassed someone.

If we were to write about the issue of "radicalization including ethno-natioalism and organized misogynistic groups" Gamergate or the specific subforum on 4chan where Gamergate was spawned would not even get a paragraph, just a mention in a list. It might be interesting to figure out how many "pockets of deplorables" there are in various likely entirely unrelated locations on the internet, but it would never under any condition be sensible to mention Gamergate in the same paragraph as etho-nationalism. I agree that there's cross-polination, but I don't agree that there's a lot of interaction between these "pockets of deplorables". Most people stick to their little echo chamber, and on 4chan it's mostly out of boredom and borne of a youthful desire to antagonize, not to murder. Of the people that murder, it's usually school shooters and the like - lashing out blindly, not in a way tied to any worldview.

If people are so open to new ideas by interacting with a lot of different sources, then they probably wouldn't be ethno-nationalists. These kinds of idiocy require very tight echo chambers, so I don't think there's much chance of these communities being tightly related.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:37 pm

LEAVES wrote:I'm not saying that they're not "capable of co-habitation", but they're certainly not co-equal or even co-habiting. How many people were even involved in Gamergate? Not that many. How many people are white nationalists? This article claims 11 million in the US. Wikipedia says that 10 thousand people wrote in support of Gamergate via anonymoous accounts on Twitter - and likely far, far, far fewer even online harassed someone.
The fact that you seem to think that I'm making an equivalence between the two shows that you're missing my point. I'm specifically saying not to confuse the two things. One is the steak: ethnonationalism; the other is the sizzle: Gamergate represents the medium of how to push the messaging.

Gamergate is a manifestation of alt-right white male greivance, one that due to its easily mockable subject (little boys with joysticks) and precedence (predating Trump) makes it seem less significant than perhaps we should see it in hindsight. In many ways, it was the maiden voyage of alt-right messaging. However, it still, at its root, involved a conspiracy to replace straight white males and attracted and provided a platform for those invested in that message.

I could maybe make an ungenerous comparison between the influence of Breitbart and Mein Kampf, in terms of sheer sales figures, and Breitbart is careful not to be too explicitly ethno-nationalist (pinky swear) but Breitbart is still a formidable hub for those with ethnonationalist tendencies. Like Gamergate, Breitbart uses irony as plausible deniability (the lulz!) and considers accusations that they harbor ethnonationalists as a slur stained with liberal tears. Milo can cite "1488" and claim it's a joke. This is the MO of 4chan, and Gamergate was an early manifestation of this kind of duplicitous platforming.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by LEAVES » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:50 pm

Jinnistan wrote: The fact that you seem to think that I'm making an equivalence between the two shows that you're missing my point. I'm specifically saying not to confuse the two things. One is the steak: ethnonationalism; the other is the sizzle: Gamergate represents the medium of how to push the messaging.

Gamergate is a manifestation of alt-right white male greivance, one that due to its easily mockable subject (little boys with joysticks) and precedence (predating Trump) makes it seem less significant than perhaps we should see it in hindsight. In many ways, it was the maiden voyage of alt-right messaging. However, it still, at its root, involved a conspiracy to replace straight white males and attracted and provided a platform for those invested in that message.

I could maybe make an ungenerous comparison between the influence of Breitbart and Mein Kampf, in terms of sheer sales figures, and Breitbart is careful not to be too explicitly ethno-nationalist (pinky swear) but Breitbart is still a formidable hub for those with ethnonationalist tendencies. Like Gamergate, Breitbart uses irony as plausible deniability (the lulz!) and considers accusations that they harbor ethnonationalists as a slur stained with liberal tears. Milo can cite "1488" and claim it's a joke. This is the MO of 4chan, and Gamergate was an early manifestation of this kind of duplicitous platforming.
...but ethno-nationalists have already figured out the medium. That's why they're at 11 million and have half of FOX News.

I don't think Gamergate is the sizzle that ethno-nationalists are looking for. I think they're happy with Tucker Carlson.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:08 pm

Jinnistan wrote:The problem is not one of democracy though. Democracy would presume a sincerity of voices, each person weighing in on their beliefs.


I think you overestimate what a pure democracy actually looks like (there is a reason why this form of government is so unstable) and that you are possibly confusing democratic values (the idealized sense of democracy that only gives an valorific definition of the term) and mechanical democracy (which is the open space in which anything may happen - a people may "democratically" vote for theocracy or monarchy or any number of things which violate democratic values).
Jinnistan wrote:The problem is anonymity, which is not democracy, unless we include the democratic definition to include fake voices.


Curious that you say this, given your recent feeling of being threatened by being called by your own name.

Anonymity is how journalists protect sources. Anonymity is how we we can experiment with ideas without risking the wrath of the mob (e.g., why Madison wrote under the name "Publius"). Anonymity of the ballot box is why people may discretely vote for the their true candidate of choice. Anonymity matters and is a vital aspect of a healthy society.
Jinnistan wrote:The problem is disinformation, as distinguished from misinformation for being deliberate and weaponized.


There's no way to have democracy and free speech without both being potentially gamed and weaponized. You fight bad speech with better speech.
Jinnistan wrote:The problem is a largely uneducated, or at least unmotivated, populace which doesn't exercise the basic media literacy required to defend oneself from propaganda.


And that is a cultural problem. We lack values and virtues necessary to sustain a healthy society. This is why mere "mechanical democracies" (societies that mere have the mechanism of democracy without pulsing democratic values, the mere mechanical provision of free speech without the valuing of free speech beyond the mere provision) are dooomed.
Jinnistan wrote:I'll go as far as to agree that we're witnessing the destabilizing effects of people coming to terms with the inherent responsibilities that democracy demands, but I wouldn't call that a symptom of too much democracy.
I think Plato would disagree. And although we should probably dismiss his call for a philosopher king (which in our scientific age is expressed as pining for technocracy), we should remember that he saw all the ways in which democracy can go wrong (e.g., the Tyranny of the Thirty).
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:47 pm

Melvin Butterworth wrote: I think Plato would disagree. And although we should probably dismiss his call for a philosopher king (which in our scientific age is expressed as pining for technocracy), we should remember that he saw all the ways in which democracy can go wrong (e.g., the Tyranny of the Thirty).
Ah yes, The Thirty Tyrants, an oligarchic, antidemocratic regime forced on Athens by Sparta after years of war. Classic example of democracy gone wrong.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:21 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote:I think you overestimate what a pure democracy actually looks like (there is a reason why this form of government is so unstable) and that you are possibly confusing democratic values (the idealized sense of democracy that only gives an valorific definition of the term) and mechanical democracy (which is the open space in which anything may happen - a people may "democratically" vote for theocracy or monarchy or any number of things which violate democratic values).
The only "valorific" is the assumption that people will voice sincere beliefs. Individuals may have sincerely anti-democratic inclinations for theocracy or monarchy. This wasn't the issue I was singling out.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:Anonymity is how journalists protect sources. Anonymity is how we we can experiment with ideas without risking the wrath of the mob (e.g., why Madison wrote under the name "Publius"). Anonymity of the ballot box is why people may discretely vote for the their true candidate of choice. Anonymity matters and is a vital aspect of a healthy society.
Again, not the issue I was speaking to. This is the problem with breaking my paragraph into bite-size chunks out of context. We'll get to the real issue of using anonymity not to "discretely vote for their true candidate", but to poison the well of discourse.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:And that is a cultural problem. We lack values and virtues necessary to sustain a healthy society.
Thank you. We've finally arrived at the point I was making, which is the neglect of the inherent responsibilities of democracy, most formidably being the necessity of an informed and educated citizenry. This is both an institutional issue (the civic costs of NCLB) but also a personal one, as much of the intellectual neglect surrounding "fake news" and parsing propagandistic sophism lies in a certain willing abdication of thought among an otherwise educated populace. "You can't make me care" is not only the most insanely futile social media retort that I've ever read, but it may also be the most fitting harbinger for the most significant flaw in democracy - it only works if people care.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:I think Plato would disagree.
I imagine Plato would have preferred a much wiser world. People need to wise up. We need to be smarter than our memes.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:26 am

LEAVES wrote:I don't think Gamergate is the sizzle that ethno-nationalists are looking for. I think they're happy with Tucker Carlson.
I called Gamergate a "bellweather" of this movement, and I think that's true. Breitbart and Tucker Carlson are also bellweathers. It's the evolution for this distinctly digital platform for ethnonationalist memes.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:54 am

nice to know at least one of the candidates is out there sweating the details

https://medium.com/@teamwarren/my-housi ... 038e19dc26
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by LEAVES » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:29 pm

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:nice to know at least one of the candidates is out there sweating the details

https://medium.com/@teamwarren/my-housi ... 038e19dc26
Estate taxes are the worst way to do this. This will just mean that rich people will find more tax loopholes, not pay more taxes.

Why not fix the hilariously absurd capital gains rates that are much more difficult to find loopholes to and generate hundreds of billions in surplus AND make the tax code make more sense?

The Republicans gave a bunch of money to rich people - and didn't pay for it. I don't see why Democrats have to find "ways to pay" for things that should just be paid for by just undoing all of the awful damage that the Republicans did.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:28 pm

It's not too early for some suggestive suspicion:

Some outlets have reported that the Mueller report was delivered to DoJ "without any additional comment from the special counsel". So, prior to reading the report, how can DoJ state, on Mueller's behalf, that no further indictments are forthcoming? Perhaps that's the parenthetical title, or this is directly stated on page one. Why then announce this anonymously on background? To multiple outlets simultaneously? Why not have a senior official give an official statement on this, one presumes, significant result of the investigation?

It still looks to me like William Barr, two weeks in office after auditioning his services on how he might shut down the Mueller investigation, announces the end of the investigation, and two weeks later, while Mueller's team is still frantically wiping up, Mueller's report is delivered, and Barr's DoJ, anonymously, preemptively announces no further indictments, even though the special council provided no additional comment apart from the yet-to-be-read report. It looks to me as if the Mueller investigation, which still had an apparent sprawl to its vision, just got shut down in a very non-confrontational but still very definite manner.

I guess we won't know until or unless Mueller talks.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:27 pm

I'm not putting stock in any revelations leading to Trump's impeachment. what could it reveal that we don't already suspect?

I know this cynicism only aids Trump's power grab so it is a good thing I'm not in Congress.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:37 pm

though I have a feeling that any impeachment attempt. no matter how just, would just inflame Trump and the Trump constituency's victim complex. and I wouldn't know for sure if it is worth the risk. again, no matter how just.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:19 pm

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:though I have a feeling that any impeachment attempt. no matter how just, would just inflame Trump and the Trump constituency's victim complex. and I wouldn't know for sure if it is worth the risk. again, no matter how just.
Never make a martyr of a fool. 2020 isn't that far away. Just don't run Hillary and it should be a pretty straightforward affair.

Speaking of rigging elections,

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/112/3 ... ith-ds=yes

https://aibrt.org/downloads/EPSTEIN_MOH ... -17-03.pdf

We don't speak of the prospect of Google flipping more votes than the Russians could ever hope to (as they control more than 90 percent of queries on the internet).

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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:07 pm

I noticed Glenn Beck also mention the "cult of death" recently, but I didn't want to insinuate that you were drinking from that well somehow.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by LEAVES » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:13 pm

Re: Mueller, there is also a very real possibility that he moved all of the most incriminating evidence not directly tied to Russian hackers (Kompromat, etc.) into a different investigation, perhaps already with enough evidence to convict. This would both avoid criticisms from Republicans that the Mueller report was a "witch hunt" aimed at Trump and avoid any of those details being suppressed by Trump's DOJ. If that were the case, Mueller may have it both ways: He may have been able to pursue all of the leads on Trump himself which the Republicans call a "witch hunt" AND be praised by those same people for his work when the Mueller report itself only implicates the people that are already indicted. If that's the case, I bet he would find it hilarious.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:27 pm

LEAVES wrote:Re: Mueller, there is also a very real possibility that he moved all of the most incriminating evidence not directly tied to Russian hackers (Kompromat, etc.) into a different investigation, perhaps already with enough evidence to convict. This would both avoid criticisms from Republicans that the Mueller report was a "witch hunt" aimed at Trump and avoid any of those details being suppressed by Trump's DOJ. If that were the case, Mueller may have it both ways: He may have been able to pursue all of the leads on Trump himself which the Republicans call a "witch hunt" AND be praised by those same people for his work when the Mueller report itself only implicates the people that are already indicted. If that's the case, I bet he would find it hilarious.
This has been my thinking (hope?).
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:27 pm

Jinnistan wrote:I noticed Glenn Beck also mention the "cult of death" recently, but I didn't want to insinuate that you were drinking from that well somehow.
And as Cicero said of Verries "J," I will make no mention of your drunken banquets nightly, and your watchings with Bawds, Dicers, Whoremasters; I will not name your losses, luxuriance, and disdaining of honesty, as I would not want insinuate anything either.

The only "cult of death" I generally make reference to is the military. Given Beck's politics, I don't think he'd cotton to that characterization of military service as I think he is in that norm of genuflecting and thanking people for their service, regardless of how and why they served.



I believe America has a "culture of death" on both the left and the right, which I have spoken of upthread, but that reflects old-school Catholic sensibilities.

At any rate, if we can set aside the genetic fallacy for a moment, we might note that people like Glenn Greenwald and Glenn Beck sometimes bring us stories that are worth considering. More important, I am less interested in Glenn Beck, who apparently is morphing into Col. Sanders in his old age, and more interested in the research presented by his guest. If you think his guest is full of shit, make your case.

I am not sure if I am more concerned that Google just got hit with a $2.75 billion anti-trust penalty by the EU or that it is probably that Google can easily take the hit and keep the payment of that fine tied up in court proceedings for years. We live in an age of tech juggernauts which know just about everything about us, but which jealously guard their panoptic algorithmic advantages.

If Google did muck around in the 2016 election, Hillary may have received more votes that she would have without "gaming" - and Google has all manner of cute tricks that function almost subliminally. If so, Trump might have won with the mandate of the Electoral College and spared us a lot of grief.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:09 am

Yeah, Matt. I guess Russiagate will cause, like, a billion unnecessary Muslim deaths.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:14 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote:If you think his guest is full of shit, make your case.
Surely he's been interviewed by someone more credible than Glenn Beck though? Or was that just the first clip you saw on Youtube? And you thought, "well, Glenn Beck, but hey!"?
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:26 am

Jinnistan wrote:Yeah, Matt. I guess Russiagate will cause, like, a billion unnecessary Muslim deaths.
I don't think the axis of comparison is "impact," but rather journalistic function (or rather failure of):
Matt Taibbi wrote:In its FISA application, the FBI included both the unconfirmed Steele report and Isikoff’s September 23, 2016 Yahoo! story, “U.S. Intel Officials probe ties between Trump adviser and Kremlin.” The Isikoff story, which claimed Page had met with “high ranking sanctioned officials” in Russia, had relied upon Steele as an unnamed source.

This was similar to a laundering technique used in the WMD episode called “stove-piping,” i.e. officials using the press to “confirm” information the officials themselves fed the reporter.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:49 am

Jinnistan wrote: Surely he's been interviewed by someone more credible than Glenn Beck though? Or was that just the first clip you saw on Youtube? And you thought, "well, Glenn Beck, but hey!"?
You must have a better refutation than attacking the reputation of the person interviewing the subject. As I said above, we have to be willing to consider stories broken by non-mainstream sources. As Taibbi states of the conspicuous neglect of "official news" media in his Mueller piece,
Taibbi wrote:For years, every hint the dossier might be true became a banner headline, while every time doubt was cast on Steele’s revelations, the press was quiet. Washington Post reporter Greg Miller went to Prague and led a team looking for evidence Cohen had been there. Post reporters, Miller said, “literally spent weeks and months trying to run down” the Cohen story.

“We sent reporters through every hotel in Prague, through all over the place, just to try to figure out if he was ever there,” he said, “and came away empty.”

This was heads-I-win, tails-you-lose reporting. One assumes if Miller found Cohen’s name in a hotel ledger, it would have been on page 1 of the Post. The converse didn’t get a mention in Miller’s own paper. He only told the story during a discussion aired by C-SPAN about a new book he’d published. Only The Daily Caller and a few conservative blogs picked it up.

. . .

This is a major structural flaw of the new fully-divided media landscape in which Republican media covers Democratic corruption and Democratic media covers Republican corruption. If neither “side” feels the need to disclose its own errors and inconsistencies, mistakes accumulate quickly.


I found this guy in a few interviews, but Beck's turned out to be the best one and this isn't the sort of thing you see featured on NPR.

You have two direct links to the actual research. Beck is not the one making the claims. He is just interviewing the subject who has made the claims.

I remember how upset you were at the thought that Russia might have interfered with our democracy, insisting that the Mueller investigation must be given time and resources to find out the truth. Now that that probe has ended with a whimper (but also some hopeful whines that perhaps yet something will emerge), perhaps we might consider the massive power that big tech wields over our democracy and how they might subvert it.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:59 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote:I don't think the axis of comparison is "impact," but rather journalistic function (or rather failure of)
Oh. I guess I took "times a million" to be some kind of impactful comparison.

The "journalistic function" doesn't mesh in either case. For WMD, the crime was not with the press but with the adminstration's manipulation of the intelligence. The declassified NIE from 2002 shows that the IC was non-committal on the question, a detail that was deliberately excised from the congressional "white paper" that led to war.

Since we agree that Taibbi's comparison is stupid in terms of impact, what journalistic failures do we have to compare with the lack of scrutiny to the above? There was, after all, an intensive Russian effort to sway the election to Trump. Trump and his associates have a predilection for fabrication which outshines the most fanciful imaginations of the Bush team. And you have various documents about "Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump" and "Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it...I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this". So, according to Taibbi, such things bear no investigation? Or worse, that such investigation would be comparable ("times a million") to decades of Middle East instability?

And based on what? Two incomplete sentences quoted in AG Barr's four page summary? Is Taibbi huffing the fumes of whatever he uses to clean Putin's pool?
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:04 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote:You must have a better refutation than attacking the reputation of the person interviewing the subject.
Nah. With Glenn Beck, he taints the reputation of anyone citing him unironically.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:I remember how upset you were at the thought that Russia might have interfered with our democracy...
That's because they did, you dumbass. Are you under the impression that the Mueller report exonerates Russia?
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:18 am

Jinnistan wrote:Nah. With Glenn Beck, he taints the reputation of anyone citing him unironically.
Beck once said that the sky is blue? Is that fact now under suspicion? Did you know that Hitler was a vegetarian?

How far are you willing to double down on this variety of refutation? You're not even attacking the character of the person making the claim (ad hominem). Rather, you're lazily whinging about the person asking questions instead of the person making the claim and me for using Beck as a convenient summary.
Janson wrote:That's because they did, you dumbass. Are you under the impression that the Mueller report exonerates Russia?
Shall we talk about the New Knowledge fiasco?
Taibbi wrote:It’s a mania. Putin is literally in our underpants. Maybe, if we’re lucky, New York might someday admit its report claiming Russians set up an anti-masturbation hotline to trap and blackmail random Americans is suspicious, not just because it seems absurd on its face, but because its source is the same “New Knowledge” group that admitted to faking Russian influence operations in Alabama.


There is a world of difference between Russia's half-assed trolling and hacking attempts and Trump being a Manchurian Candidate controlled from the Kremlin. Not the same game, not the same ballpark, not the same fuckin' sport.

Again, you have two direct links to the actual research. Have at it.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:03 am

While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.
aargh

I just want this to end, please
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:25 pm

Melvin Butterworth wrote:Beck once said that the sky is blue? Is that fact now under suspicion? Did you know that Hitler was a vegetarian?
If you felt the need to quote Glenn Beck for confirmation on atmospheric hues or Hitler for the ethical merits of compassionate consumption, then, yes, I would also audibly wonder why and laugh a little at you for the effort. It shouldn't really be necessary, you know?
Melvin Butterworth wrote:You're not even attacking the character of the person making the claim (ad hominem). Rather, you're lazily whinging about the person asking questions instead of the person making the claim and me for using Beck as a convenient summary.
Glenn Beck deserves the attack. I assume that he's reemerged into the mainstream consciousness in the last couple of months because he feels that people have forgotten about what a wildly syphilitic excuse for contorted sophism that he cat-scratched across those chalkboards before even FOX News felt compelled to call the orderlies. Glenn Beck has no legitimacy as an interrogator of truth or as a frame of reference to anything that resembles it, summarily or otherwise, however convenient it was for you to seek him out.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:Shall we talk about the New Knowledge fiasco?
Hey, why not? Let's compare a marginally successful disinformation effort by a foreign adversary to plunge society into chaos with some podunk effort that was far less successful, impactful or influential. Kinda like comparing the former with....the Iraq War (which I'm glad to hear that he apparently didn't do - I'm not going to read that shit).

What both of these issues suggest to me is that you have a garbage information diet. Just as when you inadvertently slip some incel jargon, there's something 'spicious about having Glenn Beck (fer christ's fuck!) at arm's length for convenient summary purposes, or echoing the growing sentiment this morning in the "time to hit back" phase of indignation that the Mueller report (which we haven't seen) has proved this has all been a hoax rather than what it can be confirmed to have said (the failure to reach a conclusion).

And, of course, directly relevant to that failure is the implication (that I laid out above) that Mueller just got shut down before everyone's eyes, one month after the new AG promised to do it, while the Mueller team didn't even have time to make all of their court filings this week in a rush to wrap it up (as if they were under pressure to do so). The fact that the report - one of only a couple of direct quotes from the actual text - claims clearly that it "does not exonerate" Trump, it would seem that there was something left unfinished in their work. But, in a Glenn Beckian way of subjugating facts to fever, the message this morning from Trump and his supporters is the exact opposite of one of the only shreds of Mueller's report that we've been deemed fit to see. The weight of AG Barr on the sudden and unsatisfactory resolution (ambiguity of guilt/innocence) to the investigation, especially concerning the question of obstruction, cannot go unnoticed, and a string of conflicting factors in Barr's summary are laid out in this NYT piece: "Such a conclusion would be momentous in any event. But to do so within 48 hours of receiving the report (which pointedly did not reach that conclusion) should be deeply concerning to every American." That, and the fact that said judgment is based on something no one else is yet allowed to see, except the 19 page memo Barr submitted as his resume to explain how his judgment would not respect an obstruction of justice charge against a sitting president. :shifty:

Taibbi is not the biggest idiot running this self-congratulatory maathon, but that doesn't exactly make him very bright either.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:40 pm

Jinnistan wrote:If you felt the need to quote Glenn Beck for confirmation on atmospheric hues or Hitler for the ethical merits of compassionate consumption, then, yes, I would also audibly wonder why and laugh a little at you for the effort. It shouldn't really be necessary, you know?
I didn't quote Beck. I embedded a video in which Beck spoke to the authority who is making the claim. I made satirical reference to Beck to point out the hysterical laziness of your guilt-by-associationism.
Jinnistan wrote:Glenn Beck deserves the attack.


But you're not attacking the source, "J". You're attacking the host who interviewed the source.

Again, I have directly linked to the research and the Beck clip is only offered as an introduction and summary of the research.
Jinnistan wrote:I assume that he's reemerged into the mainstream consciousness in the last couple of months because he feels that people have forgotten about what a wildly syphilitic excuse for contorted sophism that he cat-scratched across those chalkboards before even FOX News felt compelled to call the orderlies. Glenn Beck has no legitimacy as an interrogator of truth or as a frame of reference to anything that resembles it, summarily or otherwise, however convenient it was for you to seek him out.


Beck is not the authority to be questioned. Dr. Robert Epstein is the source. Dr. Robert Epstein is the person making the claims. Dr. Robert Epstein is the author of the research upon which those claims rest.
Jinnistan wrote:Hey, why not? Let's compare a marginally successful disinformation effort by a foreign adversary to plunge society into chaos with some podunk effort that was far less successful, impactful or influential. Kinda like comparing the former with....the Iraq War (which I'm glad to hear that he apparently didn't do - I'm not going to read that shit).


Or better yet, let's talk about Google's bias, getting caught with their pants down, and the implications that shifting millions of votes has for our tender flower of democracy.
Jinnistan wrote:What both of these issues suggest to me is that you have a garbage information diet.


Well, let's look at Taibbi. Writer for Rolling Stone, covered the '16 campaign with Maher, guest on Rachel Maddow, and The Countdown, and Democracy and Chapo Trap House. Come to think of it, you may be right!
Jinnistan wrote:Just as when you inadvertently slip some incel jargon,


Who gives a shit? Of all the desperate reaching. Maybe we should put this in the Mueller report too. The names were selected because they sound funny, full stop.
Jinnistan wrote:there's something 'spicious about having Glenn Beck (fer christ's fuck!) at arm's length for convenient summary purposes,


Who cares? RT and Al Jezeera, despite their biases, often report news that happens to be true which you won't find featured in the mainstream.

I don't think you've considered how dangerously conservative you're thinking is here.
Jinnistan wrote:or echoing the growing sentiment this morning in the "time to hit back" phase of indignation that the Mueller report (which we haven't seen) has proved this has all been a hoax rather than what it can be confirmed to have said (the failure to reach a conclusion).
Taibbi is right. Journalists have funadmentally failed to be journalists. They deserve criticism and humiliation over this circus.
Jinnistan wrote:Taibbi is not the biggest idiot running this self-congratulatory maathon, but that doesn't exactly make him very bright either.
LOL, Taibbi is one of your guys. He is on your side of the aisle. At some point, people have to call bullshit. It's long overdue.
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