A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Discuss anything you want.
Post Reply
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2355
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:15 pm

Melvin Butterworth wrote:Beck is not the authority to be questioned.
Of course he isn't. But, hey man, vegetarianism is totally the more holistic approach to living on this planet. Check out these thoughts from Hitler. Even the clock's right twice a day. Sure, you can find info on vegetarianism just about anywhere, but this? This is just what was more convenient for me at the time.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:Or better yet, let's talk about Google's bias, getting caught with their pants down, and the implications that shifting millions of votes has for our tender flower of democracy.
I've found a couple of items related to Robert Epstein, but none that are very complimentary. Except a supportive article on Vdare.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:Who cares? RT and Al Jezeera, despite their biases, often report news that happens to be true
You sweet binary child so susceptible to dumb equivalences. In actual point of fact, there's a rather large difference in the credibility between RT and Al Jazeera.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:LOL, Taibbi is one of your guys. He is on your side of the aisle. At some point, people have to call bullshit.
OK, I'll start. How about the bullshit of this kind of partisan presumption which obligates me in some way to agree with everyone "on my side"? Can we call that out already? Talk of "dangerously conservative" mindsets, I would consider the infantile us/them worldview as a terminal symptom. I, myself, remain liberal enough to align to principles, not partisan stances.
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:07 pm

Jinnistan wrote:Of course he isn't.


That brief flash of recognition....
Jinnistan wrote:But, hey man, vegetarianism is totally the more holistic approach to living on this planet. Check out these thoughts from Hitler. Even the clock's right twice a day. Sure, you can find info on vegetarianism just about anywhere, but this? This is just what was more convenient for me at the time.


LOL, Glenn Beck is not quite Hitler and we're not offering thoughts from Hitler/Beck but rather from Dr. Robert Epstein/Vegetarianism.

And unfortunately, our mainstream media does not tend to feature stories that might benefit the current president (e.g, #theresistance).

Beck's interview is the best video summary I found of the research.

Epstein's research shows that Google had the ability to move millions of votes and that they attempted to do so in his monitoring research. This is potentially huge (Oh no! Trump has used the word "huge" so often, I am now even more guilty by association, LOL). What if Hillary didn't really earn her electoral college votes? What if the media being in the tank for Hillary (they were), Hillary cheating (she did, thanks WikiLeaks), and social media leveraging gave her millions of votes she wouldn't have naturally acquired? What if Trump would have won the electoral college without this meddling?
J wrote:I've found a couple of items related to Robert Epstein,


Just read the fucking research Janson. You've got two links to his research. You don't need to nibble around it. See the studies for yourself.

Lets consider source #1.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... t-wing-ou/

This source makes no reference AT ALL to Dr. Robert Epstein.


So, let's look to Source #2.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/google-sea ... tive-bias/

This source states, "Only one thing: Google is not "fixing" the Lok Sabha elections. The company is absolute in its denial."

Who cares if the company is absolute in its denial? What new sort of journalism is this where denial is taken to be proof?

But let's keep going!

So why the furore? The stories all lead back to a press release put out on 13 May by the "American Institute for Behavioral Research and Technology", an independent – that is, unaffiliated with any major university – research organisation based in California.[/quote]

Here's the thing. The links I supplied have been peer reviewed. One was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, which is a peer-reviewed multi-disciplinary academic journal. The other is research that was presented at an academic conference (The Western Psychological Association) which means that the research was peer-reviewed and that people "affiliated with major" universities were in attendance. I didn't post links to press releases from a think tank, but academic research.

The alleged evidence that the AIBR overstated claims of "could" into "did," supplied as a hyperlink turns up as 404 Error, meaning we don't have evidence for this claim.

With regard to the milder claim that Google could influence an election in India, that claim is is demonstrated by the research and your article does not contest this particular claim.

Epstein claims that his research has demonstrated Google gaming search results in Nielsen-type observation of a sample of data. Is he wrong?
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2355
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:22 pm

Melvin Butterworth wrote:Glenn Beck is not quite Hitler.
Yeah, "not quite".
Melvin Butterworth wrote:What if Trump would have won the electoral college without this meddling?
Which meddling again? The alleged Google meddling? Well, he did win the electoral college, you dumbass, apparently in spite of whatever Epstein is charging here.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:This source makes no reference AT ALL to Dr. Robert Epstein.
Oh, I took it upon myself to read what Epstein is alleging - Google's alleged "gaming search results" with "the ability to move millions of votes" - and that happens to be exactly what that article refutes, citing a PJ Media article written in Epstein's defense, filtered through a tweet from Trump in response to that article. The Politifact conclusion is the same and applicable to the root of Epstein's allegation: "A far more plausible explanation is that the items that drive the algorithm — links, shares, etc. — are more common among the so-called liberal publications, which have a long track record of credible journalism and try to cater to a wider audience."
Melvin Butterworth wrote:Who cares if the company is absolute in its denial? What new sort of journalism is this where denial is taken to be proof?
It was really more about the absence of evidence which the denial happened to correlate with.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:Epstein claims that his research has demonstrated Google gaming search results in Nielsen-type observation of a sample of data. Is he wrong?
It requires a lot more evidence in order to show malicious intent of Google purposefully rigging Google search results for their nefarious ends. The Politifact article raises the question between this purposeful rigging (essentially the same thing as what conservatives call "shadow-banning" on other platforms) and the nature of the Google algorithm being susceptible to outside manipulation. The latter is a far more plausible scenario, which is why tips on improving your webpage hits are full of options for this kind of gaming. This kind of manipulation is fully-fledged across social media, from using sockpuppets and bots to increase feedback, "hits", traffic, and the appearance of influence. Using these kinds of measures are easier to observe and prove, and likely more beneficial to your search results than having a guy at Google fix the system on your behalf. Is it a mystery as to why so many more negative stories about Trump show up in his search results? It couldn't possibly be because he's an extraordinarily negative president, could it?
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:58 am

Jinnistan wrote:Yeah, "not quite".
Really, you're going to double down on this shit? Everyone's a Nazi that you don't like?
J wrote:Which meddling again? The alleged Google meddling?


The documented and researched meddling that you can investigated in the peer-reviewed sources I posted upthread.

The undeniable meddling such that the mainstream media was in the tank for Hillary, who did their damnedest to move heaven and Earth to give her good coverage. The undeniable meddling that Hillary did in her own party.
J wrote:Well, he did win the electoral college, you dumbass, apparently in spite of whatever Epstein is charging here.


Oops, I meant "popular vote." Yes, imagine if Trump had won both (fair and square). Charges of a "stolen election" would not abound. The president would have had a mandate. The conspiracy theorizing would have been defused.

No one is playing fair on either side, true. However, the referees are supposed to stay out of the game. Journalists are not supposed to be advocates and content providing "platforms" are sure as shit supposed to be neutral with requests for information processing. But they're not. Google literally rewrote the definition of the word "fascism" so that it would only stick to conservatives. We're talking about one service that controls 90% of websearches.

If you could pull your head out of your confirmation bias for three seconds you would see that this is a legitimate concern. It's not just that Google helping China create an information police state (they are), but that they have a massive amount of power over what we see, what we think we see, what information is available, what our attitudes are in relation to that information. The algorithms are not open to public inspection, so no one gets to know how the machine works, which is why it is so valuable that Epstein is doing research to demonstrate how the system works by monitoring the user end of the equation to find disparities in search outcomes.
J wrote:Oh, I took it upon myself to read what Epstein is alleging - Google's alleged "gaming search results" with "the ability to move millions of votes" - and that happens to be exactly what that article refutes, citing a PJ Media article written in Epstein's defense, filtered through a tweet from Trump in response to that article.
Can't just admit that you screwed up, can you?

Again, your source makes NO reference to Epstein, his research, or his organization. LOL.

J wrote:It was really more about the absence of evidence which the denial happened to correlate with.


No, it's about your source which makes a shitty argument.
J wrote:It requires a lot more evidence in order to show malicious intent of Google purposefully rigging Google search results for their nefarious ends.

J wrote:Intent (which is obvious in various leaks such as the post '16 election "wake" and the "silent" donation to Hillary to turn out the Latino vote), only serves as evidence that they would have motivation to act maliciously. What matters, however, is the outcome (i.e., did they change voting results? Did they flip votes?). Nefarious intentions or not, if they are flipping votes blue, then this is still an unacceptable outcome.
Is it a mystery as to why so many more negative stories about Trump show up in his search results? It couldn't possibly be because he's an extraordinarily negative president, could it?
This has nothing to do with Epstein's argument. He is NOT arguing that Google was simply shotgunning different results--if they did, that would be too obvious. Rather, his argument is that they were gaming results. We all have a difference Google experience. Two people searching for the same thing on Google will find different results--that is the algorithm at work. It remembers us and provides information that is shaped around its memory of us as users. What Epstein claims to have demonstrated is the gaming of particular results for different individual users, something which is far more subtle and difficult to prove, which forced him to take a "Nielsen's Ratings" approach to determining what was happening on different users computers. Of course, if you actually read the fucking sources (instead of scrambling for an easy refutation from a Google search), you might already know this.
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2355
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:42 pm

Melvin Butterworth wrote:Everyone's a Nazi that you don't like?
Glenn Beck is a terrible human being, full stop.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:Yes, imagine if Trump had won both (fair and square). Charges of a "stolen election" would not abound. The president would have had a mandate. The conspiracy theorizing would have been defused.
Yes. "If".
Melvin Butterworth wrote:Journalists are not supposed to be advocates and content providing "platforms" are sure as shit supposed to be neutral with requests for information processing.
Journalists frequently find themselves advocating for whatever truth they are exposing and against those who are attempting to conceal it. I suppose that one of the primary reasons why Trump is unpopular among the journalists today may be due to his rather brazen disregard for their ethical determination to uncover what he would prefer to obfuscate.

As for "platforms", these are private companies. If you want to argue in favor of regulating the internet as a public utility, then I'm on board. But social media, as it stands, is not a public utility. That can be a problem in many ways that we're seeing, as they've recently been scrambling to control the content that its users share, but the 1st amendment argument falls flat when facing a T&S agreement.

Google's size and influence has been a major issue for privacy advocates for much of the last decade precisely for the way it identifies and "profiles" users in order to tailor results to their (apparent) interests. Google, however, also does a lot of good in terms of archiving internet content. What you, and Epstein, need to show to make the case you're presenting is 1) Google would have an interest to sway an election; and 2) that any halfway-reasonable person could be swayed to switch votes based on Google search results. I'm sure you'll tell me that this info is in the studies you linked, but I'm asking directly. Because, especially by citing that magical number of "3 million", this sounds like more of the same effort as Trump's unverified claim of 3 million illegal voters, a roundabout way to excuse Trump's popular discrepancy. Like the deep state sermonizing, it seems to be hyping fear against something either non-existent or totally ineffective (they almost stole an election from Trump, despite the correlating approval ratings....). As for cyber-fraud, I'm far more concerned with the coordinated bots which flooded the FCC in support of repealing net neutrality, altering an estimated 99% consensus to keep it into a mandate to repeal it. I wonder if Epstein is similarly concerned about the ways in which these botnets-for-hire consistently game social media results, trends and feeds in ways that are at least equal to the influence of someone's inability to click past page one of a Google search.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:Google literally rewrote the definition of the word "fascism" so that it would only stick to conservatives.
Yeah, yeah, bullshit. I see one story here on this, from Tucker Carlson's Daily Caller, which provides very little evidence other than the writer's private conviction that "fascism" was ever defined as a left-wing ideology. Of course, you may be concerned about Wiki as well, but who knows (cares)? Again, just a garbage information diet, dude.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:Again, your source makes NO reference to Epstein, his research, or his organization. LOL.
Sure, and let's ignore the substance of the allegations which directly address Epstein's research - that of Google deliberately skewing search results for political purposes (ie, "flipping votes blue") - which the article addresses and debunks.
Melvin Butterworth wrote:No, it's about your source which makes a shitty argument.
What it illustrates most clearly is how easy it is for someone to take a proposed hypothetical scenario (the possibility of Google rigging the Indian election) and turn it into conspiratorial certainty. After all, this is the kind of sleight-of-tongue that someone like Glenn Beck has made millions from. I can understand why Google is not his friend.
User avatar
Oxnard Montalvo
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:27 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:05 pm

btw I am perfectly willing to accept that Trump is innocent (of this specific crime) but I would feel better if I heard it from people that aren't his AG who also have access to the same info.
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:14 pm

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:btw I am perfectly willing to accept that Trump is innocent (of this specific crime) but I would feel better if I heard it from people that aren't his AG who also have access to the same info.
And how do you feel about Google having their thumb on the scale?
User avatar
Oxnard Montalvo
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:27 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:26 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote:
And how do you feel about Google having their thumb on the scale?
???
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:39 am

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
???
Epstein's research.
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2355
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:33 pm

I hope that "this little schlepper" won't discourage the Jexodus.

Hey, he's just kvetching about the illegitimate financial global elites. What tropes?
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:07 pm

So, they're calling it "Extinction Rebellion"

Image

Climate alarmists are increasingly frazzled and sound like they're just about (but not quite) ready to come out as eco-terrorists/revolutionaries. See below for a talk from a depressed Rupert Read.



No hope for a reasoned response (voluntarily reducing carbon emissions). No hope for technological innovations to remove carbon from the atmosphere. The message now seems to be "We're screwed," which makes for a curious premise on which to base political action. The message which is starting to peak out from the malaise is that of the masses of the world taking action into their own hands, forcing governments to capitulate by any means necessary.

I don't so much think that concerns about climate change are wrong, but I don't think that there is much promise in this approach. If anything, this is itself symptomatic of the very crises these folks are predicting.
User avatar
DaMU
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:19 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by DaMU » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:55 pm

...
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:05 pm

DaMU wrote:It's hard to take other approaches seriously, is the challenge. Political activism is being tested right now,


And what can activism do? What can a cardboard sign or talk at a library or marketing campaign (meme solutions) really do?

As you state, we're not driving. And this means that this, increasingly, a call for terrorism and revolution. And I just don't see this being successful. All that laughing that we hear when we collectively imagine red necks in Dodge Durangos with AR-15s trying to fight gunships and tanks? Yeah, I don't imagine science teachers and green-haired kids who are just as (if not more) distressed about their preferred pronouns faring much better.
DaMU wrote:and even then the activism can no longer be in favor of ceasing climate change but doing our collective best to ease the worst possible permutations of it. Climate change is inevitable now, we're locked into a 2 degree Celsius warm, and that's going to continue feedback loops past a point of no return. The Greenland ice sheet, the loss of ocean biomass, heat increases in significant urban sites.

When scientists explain that we are "locked in" to a certain amount of global heat increase, what they mean is that carbon scrubbers / carbon capture / carbon reduction won't change our current path for the next 50-odd years.


Are you sure about that?
Can we hack the climate wrote: 19:19
So Gernot, you’ve been running the numbers on this, is it economically feasible?
19:25
Part of the problem is just how much cheaper this geoengineering would be than switching
19:30
to renewables.
19:31
If anything it is too cheap.
19:33
Economist Gernot Wagner is the project’s executive director.
19:37
It’s so cheap that we are talking about single digit billions of dollars to potentially
19:43
influence the entire planet’s climate.




I got the impression from watching this video that we might effect such changes (with God knows what unforeseen consequences) very quickly.

Do you have evidence to the contrary?
DaMU wrote:But it's not enough. Millions of people are going to die.


A few million people dying is not the end of the world. We're heading to 9 billion people by 2050. Millions are a drop in the bucket.
DaMU wrote:The more scientific inquiry I've read into the subject, the more despondent I've become, and the more my mindset has shifted from "We can do something to stop it" to "We can do something to ease it" to "We are well and thoroughly fucked short of a complete global upheaval in our systems of thought."


And that is why I think we need to get real and recognize that conventional "responsible" solutions are out of it, entirely.

The only way out of this mess, is to Buck Rogers our way into the 22nd century. Nuclear power, carbon scrubbers, desalination plants, atmospheric seeding with stuff like aluminium, ocean seeding with stuff like iron, and some crazy DARPA shit we'd better hope they've been keeping under wraps.
DaMU wrote:But with each passing year, the available non-crisis-based options decrease. The potential for non-revolutionary solutions slips away, piece by piece, degree by degree. I think of my friends' children, and of my nephew. I'm frankly terrified for the world we're leaving them, and that I didn't do enough, but as one person, there are limits to what I can do. I don't hold any wheels of power. I vote, I protest, I donate to causes as best I can.
The world has often been in crisis. I remember waiting for a nuclear exchange during the Cold War, but the world is still here. There are no guarantees, but despair is premature even now. If we go on, it will not be because we are wise (living close to the Earth, moderation), but clever (finding loopholes, tricks, and stop gaps). I am not a techno-optimist, I think, but a techno-realist. I am a misanthrope, at heart, so our only hope is to bumble our way towards a technological band-aid to stall the apocalypse with even greater challenges awaiting us in the future.



But the people who hold the steering wheel are still content to fly us into the cliff because they have an ejector seat.[/quote]
User avatar
LEAVES
Posts: 15541
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: LEAVES come from TREES

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by LEAVES » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:10 am

Yes, we can definitely be certain that we can hack the climate and have zero unintended effects. I mean, a YouTube video said it!
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:21 am

LEAVES wrote:Yes, we can definitely be certain that we can hack the climate and have zero unintended effects. I mean, a YouTube video said it!
I suppose, if I'd said that, I'd be open to ridicule.

What I did say was, "our only hope is to bumble our way towards a technological band-aid to stall the apocalypse with even greater challenges awaiting us in the future." And I also said, "I got the impression from watching this video that we might effect such changes (with God knows what unforeseen consequences) very quickly."

The clip itself reports that such a fix "could have nasty side-effects," (e.g., ozone damage) so you're wrong on that count too.

And as for the credibility of that mere "YouTube video," it comes from the Australian Broadcast Corporation's "Foreign Correspondent" which "is the prime-time international public affairs program on Australia's national broadcaster, ABC-TV." The clip features, in part, an interview with the Executive Director of the Harvard Geo-Engineering Program, who is an economist who reports that that program could be implemented for single-digit billions of dollars.

And, so far, on the other side, we have LEAVES, noteworthy for being prickly, pedantic, purple, and a purveyor of bad poetry. I wonder where the presumption presently lies?
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:23 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote: I suppose, if I'd said that, I'd be open to ridicule.

What I did say was,
No one gives a shit.
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:11 am



David Suzuki is quite exercised in this video, but the spirit/attitude is much better. He is aggressively hopeful while still being adamantly serious about the problem.

And he raises a good point with the "NASA/Moon Shot" metaphor that AOC has appropriated, the law of unexpected benefits. Solutions we come up with will have unintended bad consequences, many of them disastrous. But there will also be unexpected discoveries and innovations and the sooner we get to developing them, the sooner we can implement them.

Suzuki ultimately rejects the approach of geo-engineering out of concern over the law of unexpected consequences, but Suzuki also gives us a 5% shot of avoiding a world that runs past 4 degrees Celsius by 2100(!), and I think his aggressive notion of "hopefulness" is keeping him from accepting the best risk-management options (given the irrationality of our species). He states,
Suzuki wrote:you can't say it's too late with the 5% chance like as and again I don't see myself as an industrious but I certainly see myself as an entrepreneur but when I see when I hear five percent chance I hear hope


I agree that we must do something, however, cutting yourself from the most realistic and efficacious (as well as dangerous) solutions when facing what it is almost certain catastrophe for a scruple over sins of the past is looking at it the wrong way. The world as we know it is over and we're not going to stop global economic development.

People need to get over their problems with nuclear power and geo-engineering.
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:02 pm

The "Aerosol Masking Effect" is damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of deal. The good news is, we've discovered that this form of cooling by geoengineering works (because it turns out we've been doing it unwittingly). The bad news is that the masking effect is a result of carbon emissions. This means we can't simply go cold turkey off fossil fuels. Rolling Stone summarizes findings of this study (https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com ... 17GL076079) stating,
Rolling Stone wrote: What’s clear is that they’re cooling us off. If we magically transformed the global economy overnight, and air pollution fell to near zero, we’d get an immediate rise in global temperatures of between 0.5 and 1.1 degrees Celsius, according to the new study. (For reference: The climate has warmed about 1.2 degrees Celsius since the start of the Industrial Revolution in the 19th century.)


In short, if we simply stop emitting carbon, the nightmare begins that much sooner. Like it or not, we're committed to geoengineering already. There is no pure "hippie" solution to the problem that will save us.

Rolling Stone points out that there are many concerning impacts of purposefully dumping aerosols into the atmosphere, but concludes,
Rolling Stone wrote: Instead of geoengineering being a last-ditch effort to avert the worst ravages of climate change, it’s going to have to be part of our toolkit to solve the problem.
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:56 pm

The 7 Folk-Climatologists You'll Meet in Heaven (After the Climate Apocalypse)

1. The Denier - Doesn't believe in global warming, thinks the whole thing is some sort of hoax being perpetrated on society.

2. The Anthropogenic Skeptic - Agrees that global warming is happening, but doesn't think that is proven to be substantively human-caused.

3. The Severity Skeptic - Agrees that global warming is happening and that humans are the primary driver, but is skeptical about how bad climate change will be and how soon it will happen.

4. The Mild Believer -- Agrees that climate change is real, human caused, and potentially or even likely to be severe, but plans on having a pint at the Winchester and wait for it all to blow over (general concern, but no action).

5. The Semi-Motivated Believer - Agrees that climate change is real and likely to be severe and so is concerned to engage in conventional solutions to the problem such as recycling and doing "meatless Mondays" and other consumer-friendly activities that signal virtue but don't really do anything to address the problem.

6. The Alarmed Believer - Sees the need for radical change in the face climate change. Feels we need to get rid of airplanes and farting cows and shift to electric cars to stop the worst effects from kicking in.

7. The Fatalist -- Agrees that climate change is real and severe and also feels that there is nothing we can do about it. The most hard core fatalists are the "Near Term Extinction" Guy McPherson-types who argue for a "hospice model" for raising awareness in the human race--that is, to get us to collectively acknowledge that we're screwed and the take rational action to minimize suffering and maximize our life goals in light of our impending doom.

Right now our dialogue in popular media is bookended between 3 and 6, resulting in our Overton Window being held somewhere between 4 & 5, meaning that we're not likely to do anything in the near future to address the problem.
User avatar
Oxnard Montalvo
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:27 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:37 pm

yiiiiikes
Image
context
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2355
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:31 pm

Image

"Some people did some things and now nationalism is unfairly frowned upon."
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:43 pm

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:yiiiiikes
Image
context
Tempest in a teapot. Right wing is just as hair-triggered as the left.
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:53 pm

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/julia ... 4-11-2019/

They got Assange. You do not humiliate empires without consequences.
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:06 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Tempest in a teapot. Right wing is just as hair-triggered as the left.
My first thought, too, was "Both sides" rather than "Boy, that's racist."
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:17 am

Ergill wrote: My first thought, too, was "Both sides" rather than "Boy, that's racist."
Five propositions, Sanchez.

Answer them or be ignored.
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2355
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:41 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote:You do not humiliate empires without consequences.
Randy Quaid will be missed.
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:02 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote: Five propositions, Sanchez.

Answer them or be ignored.
IGNORE ME!
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:09 am

Jinnistan wrote: Randy Quaid will be missed.
Snowden, Manning, and Assange risked their reputations, freedom, and lives to show us that conspiracies were not all theories. And in exchange, we shrugged and quipped.
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2355
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:41 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Snowden, Manning, and Assange risked their reputations, freedom, and lives to show us that conspiracies were not all theories. And in exchange, we shrugged and quipped.
We still have the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists.

I don't applaud what's happened to Assauuunge, and I think these charges against him announced today are extremely weak, but Assange cashed his credibility as a neutral advocate for transparency as soon as he refused to publish documents on Putin's oligarchs and accused those who did as being CIA assets with zero evidence. But, hey, we'll always have Stratfor. I wish he had been more consistent.
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2355
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:45 am

I don't see how I'm supposed to suppress that excellent Randy Quaid quip. He knew the risks.
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:53 pm

Melvin Butterworth wrote: Snowden, Manning, and Assange risked their reputations, freedom, and lives to show us that conspiracies were not all theories. And in exchange, we shrugged and quipped.
Pretty poor excuse for you buying into manifestly stupid and noxious conspiracy theories like the Seth Rich "assassination", one Assange himself encouraged. Perhaps we should also toss in the alleged "radical feminist conspiracy" to fabricate sexual assault charges against him as a ploy to get him to Sweden to extradite him to the US, as if Sweden was a better platform for this than his then-current residence Britain, our closest ally in the world and the country that would ultimately be extraditing him now. Add on to this his willingness to spread disinformation for political ends, his clumsily releasing information on dissidents in authoritarian countries, his dictatorial merging of his own personality and Wikileaks (a choice that's lead to numerous defections and the ceding of Wikileaks reputation to other leak outfits), his penchant for suppressing transparency within his own organization well beyond the protection of sources, his threatening the press with libel charges to staunch criticism, and his engaging in patronage and active conspiracies with authoritarian governments. I'm sympathetic to Snowden and Manning, but Assange is just a gross caricature of himself at this point, a molester, liar, megalomaniac and tool.
Jinnistan wrote: We still have the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists.

I don't applaud what's happened to Assauuunge, and I think these charges against him announced today are extremely weak, but Assange cashed his credibility as a neutral advocate for transparency as soon as he refused to publish documents on Putin's oligarchs and accused those who did as being CIA assets with zero evidence. But, hey, we'll always have Stratfor. I wish he had been more consistent.
Seconded. There isn't a good guy side here. The Trump administration, after a push from Jeff Sessions, is pursuing Assange on flimsy grounds (an attempted hack) in order to tamp down on leaks generally. They simply represent the culmination in the worst dictatorial trends in our government going back decades. There's schadenfreude in this happening to Assange at the behest of an administration he sought to elect with the help of one of the more thoroughgoing dictatorships in the world.
User avatar
Oxnard Montalvo
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:27 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:00 am

Trump has also gotten in on the "will no one rid me of this turbulent Muslim?" action. this could be the thing that gets the Dem leadership to stand behind Omar but I dunno if they already kinda showed their hand with the reaction to the Israel thing.

it just all feels very fragile.

EDIT: never mind, lol
also, I had been invited to celebrate Passover with two of my friends and their family for a week in CA. after receiving a bunch of hostile comments about Omar and her anti-Semitism on FB, I told them I wasn’t going and they were all, “oh no, you have it all wrong, we’re not mad at you, etc.” and I told them I would be okay to go. although I later realized that because I didn’t outright say “hey, what you guys said really put me off” they probably thought I was only worried that I had offended them.

so following a bunch of national hitjobs on Omar, the NZ mosque shooting, the AIPAC conference, and the re-election of Netanyahu dredging up those initial feelings, I decided there was no way I was going to enjoy Passover with them and I canceled my invite for a second time. based on our last conversation, I know that they suspect this was over those FB comments. and it is. but it probably would be gauche to say so before Passover so I have two weeks before I have to explain my no-show. I don’t know how to express my disappointment in them and completely avoid any hurt feelings but at the very least I’m hoping clearing the air is a better idea than creating any unresolved mysteries. and I plan on just saying “I was turned off by your comments” and that’s it and not be all like, “you guys are bigots, you're playing into Trump's agenda, etc.” I don't want to tell them how to feel about whatever because that's their business.

I still wonder if I am overreacting to their comments (it's not like I know Omar personally) but the whole incident just reminds me that I am white and some people aren’t and not everyone gets the same benefit of the doubt that I do. I still don’t want to go to Passover though.
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:40 am

On the road, so I am inflicted with regular television in hotels rooms. CNN and Fox talking heads were singing the same tune, which means you've either found a hard fact or deep establishment bullshit. This morning was the latter. They were talking about Julian Assange and both raised the inevitable question of press freedom and whistle-blowing and both gave the same answer. You see, press freedom is vital and so is whistle-blowing and truth-telling and apple pie and the American way, but Assange is different because (same answer both times) because "he hacked us." Assange didn't hack shit. WikiLeaks is not the legion of hackers from CSI-CYBER. WikiLeaks was an open source drop box, but now I find that Assange was "hacker-man."
User avatar
Stu
Posts: 25043
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:49 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Stu » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:06 am

Loved every second of this:

User avatar
Oxnard Montalvo
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:27 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:31 pm

Stu wrote:Loved every second of this
he better hope that worked since he'll need all the positive press he can get

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/p ... party.html
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2355
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:33 pm

One of the stated reasons for why Mueller felt unable to determine "corrupt intent", regarding obstruction, is Trump's refusal to be interviewed in person. Luckily, Barr was somehow able to perceive his "sincere belief" without such an inconvenience.
User avatar
crumbsroom
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:15 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:36 pm

I feel like such a dummy for believing that Barr wouldn't turn out to be the pile of garbage he obviously is.

He's just such an unbelievable toady.
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2355
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:43 pm

crumbsroom wrote:I feel like such a dummy for believing that Barr wouldn't turn out to be the pile of garbage he obviously is.

He's just such an unbelievable toady.
He told two bald-faced lies at his press conference that were immediately discovered upon reading the report.

I'm assuming his target audience isn't going to bother to read it.
User avatar
crumbsroom
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:15 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:55 pm

Jinnistan wrote: He told two bald-faced lies at his press conference that were immediately discovered upon reading the report.

I'm assuming his target audience isn't going to bother to read it.
Hence my unbelievable dumminess.

I figured he may have some bias, but this guy is just ridiculous.
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:53 pm

crumbsroom wrote:I feel like such a dummy for believing that Barr wouldn't turn out to be the pile of garbage he obviously is.

He's just such an unbelievable toady.
Well, it's a bad sign when his 2018 resume for the job was basically an unsolicited memo criticizing the legal foundation of the investigation and forwarding an extreme vision of executive authority. I think it was called "Why I would like to repurpose the office of the Attorney General into Legal Press Secretary for the President".
User avatar
DaMU
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:19 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by DaMU » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:10 am

Between that unsolicited memo and his history with Iran-Contra, all of this was a given. The surprise was how inept it was, even for this admin. Like... they tried to lie their way out a literal hour before we learned just how dishonest they were being.
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
User avatar
Oxnard Montalvo
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:27 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:41 pm

User avatar
DaMU
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:19 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by DaMU » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:44 pm

Just donated to Elizabeth Warren.

Right now, she's impressing me most.
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:48 pm

DaMU wrote:Just donated to Elizabeth Warren.

Right now, she's impressing me most.
What impresses you about her?
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:26 pm

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:the state of the country

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... a-detained
Unless you are 100% for open borders (no rules, come and go as you please), then you have to acknowledge that there is a decades long unchecked problem at the southern border. The government has failed, repeatedly, to fix, ameliorate, or even significantly attempt either. When government turns a blind eye for too long, these sorts of things happen. You can have militias at the border, border patrol at the border, or change the law. So long as the law is on the books, however, the government has a duty to enforce basic immigration policy.

If climate change projections are correct and human nature holds (blindness to exponential change and motivation toward short-term gain), we (as human beings sharing this planet) are going to need to find a way to accommodate hundreds of millions of climate refugees (the folks heading up now are not really climate refugees but mostly economic refugees--if the political asylum were all they were after, they would stop in Mexico). This shift will be most keenly felt in regions like India (remember when 28 million applied for 90,000 railway jobs?) and Pakistan (they have nukes along with India). And where will they go? Will China simply let them in? Iran? Afghanistan? One of the other "stans"? Brace for war kids. None of us are really ready for what is coming. Enjoy the Democrat votes as they flow across the border, but they won't be voting your way for as long as you think.
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:08 pm

Melvin Butterworth wrote: Unless you are 100% for open borders (no rules, come and go as you please), then you have to acknowledge that there is a decades long unchecked problem at the southern border. The government has failed, repeatedly, to fix, ameliorate, or even significantly attempt either. When government turns a blind eye for too long, these sorts of things happen. You can have militias at the border, border patrol at the border, or change the law. So long as the law is on the books, however, the government has a duty to enforce basic immigration policy.
The choice isn't between open borders and private militias with no oversight illegally detaining civilians, you crumpet. What, do you want Blackwater on the borders? The Pinkertons? Let's frame the issue within the actual positions of the immigration debate instead of an editorial you read once and weird endorsements for sketchy mercenaries.
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:06 pm

User avatar
DaMU
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:19 pm

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by DaMU » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:50 pm

Melvin Butterworth wrote:
What impresses you about her?
Haha, "Impressing me most" is also relative given the field so far, but I like her calling on impeachment and her pledge to keep drilling out of public lands, her starting the Consumer Bureau, her focus on policy compared to other candidates, and the fact that she's not taking PAC money. That last bit is the big reason why: other candidates are taking a lot of money right now, and they seem to be getting more attention than her (Buttigieg currently, Beto previously).
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
Melvin Butterworth
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:11 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:21 am

DaMU wrote:
Haha, "Impressing me most" is also relative given the field so far, but I like her calling on impeachment and her pledge to keep drilling out of public lands, her starting the Consumer Bureau, her focus on policy compared to other candidates, and the fact that she's not taking PAC money. That last bit is the big reason why: other candidates are taking a lot of money right now, and they seem to be getting more attention than her (Buttigieg currently, Beto previously).
From now on, I have two pretty simple tests for candidates to pass. Call it the MLK test. If candidate X offers a vision of unification into a future where content of character matters more than color of skin, then I am in. If the vision is one of division, of essentialism, blame, and teams, I'm out. Warren troubles me because seems to cheaply cash in on the former. Her thin claims to Native American identity are hard look past, for me. The other test is whether the person simply seems to be honest. I liked Bernie in '16 simply because he seemed to be the only sincere person running for president. Warren strikes me as someone willing to say things to score points. Someone like Yang, for example, seems more like someone committed to an idea-set sincerely posited as a means to improve the nation.

Warren has had some admirable moments. I didn't know that she's not taking PAC money. We'll see how things shake out, but she's not high on my list yet.
User avatar
Oxnard Montalvo
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:27 am

Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:55 pm

Liz Warren is the closest we'll get to a President Lisa Simpson. and I am a pretty big Simpsons fan.
Image
for real though, it is kind of a bummer that her thunder may inevitably be stolen by Bernie (based on the recent polls). who is cool and all but hasn't had quite the same level of success getting things done. like if I say Bernie doesn't inspire the same "confidence", that's not just a gut-level intuitive thing, right?

also, imo my impression of Warren is not someone who has had a history of saying things just to score points.
Post Reply