A Corrierino Awareness Thread

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Popcorn Reviews
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:36 pm

Oh no. Melvin just ignored Ergill. That's terrible. How ever will you go on in life?
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Rock » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:58 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:11 pm
5 Propositions.
Beating Ergill was bad enough, but you didn't need to proposition him 5 times.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:13 am

Rock wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:58 am
Beating Ergill was bad enough, but you didn't need to proposition him 5 times.
No one beats Ergill. I am simply trying to get answers.

To be clear, I haven't been fuckin' with him, let sleeping dogs lie and all that, but apparently he still wants to play. He has recently been commenting on my posts, but he knows the price of conversation is to answer a few questions that he dodged a year ago. More power to him, but that he will not answer leaves us at an impasse.

And no offense, but this ain't about you. I am not here to argue with his buddies as proxy for the real thing.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:13 pm

Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:13 am
No one beats Ergill. I am simply trying to get answers.

To be clear, I haven't been fuckin' with him, let sleeping dogs lie and all that, but apparently he still wants to play. He has recently been commenting on my posts, but he knows the price of conversation is to answer a few questions that he dodged a year ago. More power to him, but that he will not answer leaves us at an impasse.

And no offense, but this ain't about you. I am not here to argue with his buddies as proxy for the real thing.
How dramatic. I've "recently been commenting" on your posts, as in two (now three). The silent treatment is just fine with me.

I see those questions, and I'm like, "Yeah, I can answer those, but what the fuck do I get out of it? I already did at various points and sometimes repeatedly in an extended argument with you about abortion. You dodged, mischaracterized, or simply ignored these in a filibuster of bullshit. It was one of your most ridiculous, odious performances. If answering these means more of that, what's the point?"

You're so incapable of putting yourself in someone else's shoes that you can't possibly see this. That or you know this, but you're just playing Trump at the press conference blowing smoke when he knows he can't bullshit his way out of it. "I have no answer to Ergill's comments about the protests? Abortion!" You're a gussied up version of everyone's rightwing aunt Ethel on FB.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:25 pm

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 327631002/

Love the part where he wants to give police an additional $300 million so they have money to reform themselves.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:30 pm

I was a fool to not realize they’d stop brutalizing civilians and shooting the eyes out of journalists if you just gave them 300 million more dollars. Joe Biden is truly our savior and I shall speak no more ill words of him.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by The Nameless Two » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:05 pm

I want to say I understand the necessity of voting Biden but, holy shit, I have surgically reattached my nose so I can rip it off again from holding it so much.

My parents and I seem to agree that he is the perfect "silent barely sentient meatbag" which will ultimately be operated by the team he admits into office, but that's a scary vote because you need faith in many political figures which could end up polluting certain demographics while Trump rides high on the ship of fools. Ultimately, I think Biden is... more than just America's only hope at the moment. As a Canadian I'm on my knees begging and holy shit I understand if you walk right past me
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:14 pm

Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:30 pm
I was a fool to not realize they’d stop brutalizing civilians and shooting the eyes out of journalists if you just gave them 300 million more dollars. Joe Biden is truly our savior and I shall speak no more ill words of him.
Bernie Sanders proposed paying cops more. 300m is a pittance in the federal budget and with moves already to divest 150m from LA alone and no significant stomach in Congress to defund right now, I'm not sure what you expect. Defunding efforts clearly have to start from state and local level and build momentum before we change the mood in Washington and cut off federal spigots. Don't expect it to happen with a snap of a finger. Don't expect the president to be your mirror either. Do expect that people are just as narrowly focused on the presidency (and random ideas of what they can and will do) with that ticket having down-ballot effects.

When your grandchild is on your knee and he asks you what you were doing before Trump won reelection and the country descended into autocratic choas, you can say, "Ah, boy, I shitposted Joe Biden!"
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:28 pm

Bernie’s plan sucks too? He’s not the nominee though. Also lotta big assumptions of me having grandchildren or anyone living through this my dude. I admire the optimism tho.

Biden doesn’t have to follow through on anything, but he could at the very least PRETEND to see where the public opinion is heading and at least fake calling for defunding.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:30 pm

Keep in mind that one of the major points of our last discussion was the down-ballot and how that’s the thing I’m showing up to the polls for. Hopefully my state keeps Markey and yours can pull a miracle and get Booker into DC.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:38 pm

Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:28 pm
Bernie’s plan sucks too? He’s not the nominee though.
Bernie's plan didn't suck. It just has flaws. It's just also possible to nitpick the most progressive candidate in the field and totally lose the forest for the trees.
Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:28 pm
Biden doesn’t have to follow through on anything, but he could at the very least PRETEND to see where the public opinion is heading and at least fake calling for defunding.
On defunding? Even with the huge swings in sentiment recently, defunding is an incredibly new notion to most people and polls below 20%. If you expect that to fundamentally shift by election day or Joe Biden to gamble on that shift, I don't know what to tell you.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:40 pm

I’m also fully well aware of the clear and present danger presented by Trump (I shitpost him as well!) which is why it’s disheartening that the best solution to him given to us is someone I can’t earnestly believe in to produce adequate solutions to the systematic issues with the country that created a situation where we wound up with Trump as President.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:41 pm

Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:30 pm
Keep in mind that one of the major points of our last discussion was the down-ballot and how that’s the thing I’m showing up to the polls for. Hopefully my state keeps Markey and yours can pull a miracle and get Booker into DC.
I know, and one of my points is you underestimating the tendency of the kind of sentiments you're spreading to depress that vote. The story's we tell matter right now, and you're not really evincing good judgment in how you focus and frame your criticisms.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:47 pm

Ergill wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:38 pm
Bernie's plan didn't suck. It just has flaws. It's just also possible to nitpick the most progressive candidate in the field and totally lose the forest for the trees.


On defunding? Even with the huge swings in sentiment recently, defunding is an incredibly new notion to most people and polls below 20%. If you expect that to fundamentally shift by election day or Joe Biden to gamble on that shift, I don't know what to tell you.
Have trouble seeing putting a higher pay rate on a profession attracting better candidates instead of just attracting more sociopaths looking to cash in on their worst instinct, but could be wrong there.

I’d wager the shift would be greater if there was good faith discussion on the planning and implications of “defund the police” instead of the conflation of “defunding” to “abolition” the NYPD is allegedly having it’s disciplinary records unsealed, maybe if the contents of those get more coverage and the serious people who talk about how important the police are take the time to earnestly discuss how cops have no obligation to protect or serve the citizenry things will change? I don’t know what to tell you other than I’m beyond sick of seeing this shit continue without any actual solutions or progress and what’s supposed to be our best hope still positioning himself to realistically accomplish nothing?
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:49 pm

Ergill wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:41 pm
I know, and one of my points is you underestimating the tendency of the kind of sentiments you're spreading to depress that vote. The story's we tell matter right now, and you're not really evincing good judgment in how you focus and frame your criticisms.
Active voter suppression does infinitely more to depress the vote than whatever I have to say. What happened in Georgia yesterday is more destructive towards Democracy than myself or anyone else on Twitter pointing out that Biden is a pants-shitting out of touch old man responsible for most of the police issues we see right now.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:08 pm

Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:47 pm
Have trouble seeing putting a higher pay rate on a profession attracting better candidates instead of just attracting more sociopaths looking to cash in on their worst instinct, but could be wrong there.
I have no interest in raising police pay and also no interest in armchair speculation at what it'll do, but I will say, again, that Bernie's plan for CJR was good because, again, I'm not about to the lose the forest for the trees. If you think there's any candidate in the world where we can't pick some shit in their plans we can cynically scoff at, you're dead wrong.
Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:47 pm
I’d wager the shift would be greater if there was good faith discussion on the planning and implications of “defund the police” instead of the conflation of “defunding” to “abolition” the NYPD is allegedly having it’s disciplinary records unsealed, maybe if the contents of those get more coverage and the serious people who talk about how important the police are take the time to earnestly discuss how cops have no obligation to protect or serve the citizenry things will change? I don’t know what to tell you other than I’m beyond sick of seeing this shit continue without any actual solutions or progress and what’s supposed to be our best hope still positioning himself to realistically accomplish nothing?
I don't care if people say "defund" or "abolish" or whatever. We can bat around the surface-level disputes and decry how much we dislike how that shakes out, or we can raise the more substantive, specific proposals that lie behind these phrases.
Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:49 pm
Active voter suppression does infinitely more to depress the vote than whatever I have to say. What happened in Georgia yesterday is more destructive towards Democracy than myself or anyone else on Twitter pointing out that Biden is a pants-shitting out of touch old man responsible for most of the police issues we see right now.
That there's worse shit out there doesn't justify you making shit worse. The pants-shitting man likely has his finger on the pulse of most Americans because we're in pants-shitting world. Anyone who genuinely grappled with an historical crisis had to learn how to make bleak compromises (a crisis doesn't happen when things are A-OK). Biden's COPS program is barely even the latter next to what we're looking at. I get that a Trump win likely won't affect you, but supposedly your principled objections here were based on concern for other people.

I'm getting flashbacks to pluckylump in 2016.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:24 pm

Speaking of specific proposals, from some of what Biden proposes;

National Use of Force Standards- What obligation will cops feel to adhere towards these, and what repercussions will an officer face for violating them?

Body Cams - How many were on when they gunned down David McAtee and left his body in the streets? Are they gonna propose a federal standard that cops who turn their cameras off or have mysterious malfunctions face punishment for doing so?

More diverse force- Half the cops who killed Freddie Grey were POC, the officer who watched Chauvin Kill George Floyd was POC, and one of most prolifically shitty officers in NY is

Please point out what influence I have that can make this worse? I’m a dude on an Internet forum that’s barely populated, what difference am I making voicing my displeasure with Biden? Will I change the world by holding my nose and pretending that Biden doesn’t suck absolute shit and hold direct culpability for where we are now?

Also, a Trump win likely wouldn’t affect me? That’s a helluva reach.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:30 pm

I’m a poor working class dude living in one of those sanctuary cities Trump is constantly threatening with pre-existing medical conditions, with friends and family belonging to even more marginalized and at risk groups. That’s still not gonna stop me from honestly assessing Biden as a human being and candidate while having no actual influence or power. You’re talking to me like I’m Sinclair broadcasting, OANN, or Fox News.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:39 pm

Speaking of those reactionary right wing outlets, do you think that no matter what Biden proposes they won’t just label him as a radical socialist who wants to defund the police and replace them with abortionists?
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:59 pm

Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:24 pm
Speaking of specific proposals, from some of what Biden proposes;

National Use of Force Standards- What obligation will cops feel to adhere towards these, and what repercussions will an officer face for violating them?

Body Cams - How many were on when they gunned down David McAtee and left his body in the streets? Are they gonna propose a federal standard that cops who turn their cameras off or have mysterious malfunctions face punishment for doing so?

More diverse force- Half the cops who killed Freddie Grey were POC, the officer who watched Chauvin Kill George Floyd was POC, and one of most prolifically shitty officers in NY is
And if we proposed repercussions, will they follow through with them? How consistently? Who's monitoring it? How are they held accountable? We can squeeze any campaign plan because they're necessarily generic. Thing is, not a single one of these will receive a positive answer from a Trump administration. The answers will be far worse. Face it, there's one party susceptible to actually responding to these concerns and to leftist protest, the party that's already moving with the needle right now, and then there's a burgeoning autocracy.
Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:24 pm
Please point out what influence I have that can make this worse? I’m a dude on an Internet forum that’s barely populated, what difference am I making voicing my displeasure with Biden? Will I change the world by holding my nose and pretending that Biden doesn’t suck absolute shit and hold direct culpability for where we are now?
A person infected with COVID infects three other people on average. We can amplify useful, pointed rhetoric that adequately contextualizes shit right now, or we can lash out indulgently and haphazardly. Again, if you're throwing up your hands over Biden's COPS pittance, it sounds more like you're just indulging in reflexive indignation rather than really assessing its significance or the avenues for real change right now.
Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:24 pm
Also, a Trump win likely wouldn’t affect me? That’s a helluva reach.
You aren't acting like it.
Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:30 pm
I’m a poor working class dude living in one of those sanctuary cities Trump is constantly threatening with pre-existing medical conditions, with friends and family belonging to even more marginalized and at risk groups. That’s still not gonna stop me from honestly assessing Biden as a human being and candidate while having no actual influence or power. You’re talking to me like I’m Sinclair broadcasting, OANN, or Fox News.
I'm talking to you like you're an adult responsible for what you say, how you say it, and what you amplify.
Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:39 pm
Speaking of those reactionary right wing outlets, do you think that no matter what Biden proposes they won’t just label him as a radical socialist who wants to defund the police and replace them with abortionists?
What do you think this has to do with anything I've been saying? You're lashing out blindly.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:08 pm

Hey, Trump only just tried to fire his Defense Sec who wouldn't let him put troops on city streets. So...just as bad as Biden, I guess.


Meanwhile in relevant America....


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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:13 pm

- Their response to Leftist protest is to ignore calls for defunding and propose more funding for the same types of reform that haven’t worked, they wouldn’t work under Trump obviously, but they’ve done nothing to convince the left they’ll do anything either, they’re dangling the possibility at best.

- Earlier in mentioned how it’s politically unwise for Biden to get onboard with defunding, when regardless of whether he does it is or not there’s a far reaching reactionary media machine that will ascribe that position to him even when he publicly opposes it. Maybe public opinion changes if Biden is actually the guy the right paints him as and he uses his position and actual real influence to advocate for that position and sway the public? That thing politicians should do?

- As an adult who has been reading up on and learning about the active harm caused by Biden’s legislative actions over my lifetime, what do you propose I discuss regarding Biden? Do I pretend none of that happened?



- I just addressed three specific proposals and how they’re unlikely to result in real substantial change.

- How does pointing out Biden’s past record not properly contextualize where we’re at now? He helped propagate assets forfeiture, created the disparity in sentencing for crack/powder cocaine, that’s all important towards the context of where we are now with law enforcement. He’s been in government longer than I’ve been alive and has been doing active harm the majority of the time.

-







-
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:16 pm

Biden is a great human being and politician who has done nothing wrong in his political or personal life and his election will single handedly save America from fascism and not just lead the way to President Cotton with Vice President Crenshaw. Is that better? Is that the thought I should have?
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by The Nameless Two » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:17 pm

Yeah, gotta third man here and opine that Smoke Bomb is rightfully holding political feet to the fire. All political feet need fire at this point, fire walk with me
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:18 pm

Ergill wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:59 pm
We can squeeze any campaign plan because they're necessarily generic. Thing is, not a single one of these will receive a positive answer from a Trump administration. The answers will be far worse. Face it, there's one party susceptible to actually responding to these concerns and to leftist protest, the party that's already moving with the needle right now, and then there's a burgeoning autocracy.
It's worth pointing out that each of the issues listed were covered in the Dem plan released on Monday.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:20 pm

I'm just saying....I haven't seen a post where you've shit-posted Trump here, and I'm not going to go back to 2015 to find one.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:25 pm

Weird, could’ve sworn I opened this criticizing Biden for wanting to give cops $300 million more to reform themselves instead of having their reallocate their already overblown budget to it.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by The Nameless Two » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:26 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:20 pm
I'm just saying....I haven't seen a post where you've shit-posted Trump here, and I'm not going to go back to 2015 to find one.
What really needs to be said re: Trump? He’s a paint by numbers account of neo-fascist ideology come reality. It’s absurdly easy to clown on Trump to the point where it feeds into his base. The best solution here, in the Corrie, re: Trump is silence. There is no new ground to cover Trumpwise while Biden’s campaign can be subject to change, for better and for worse.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:27 pm

I feel that the greatest concern is that putting Biden under the microscope for his many failings to be the candidate American ideally might need to instigate change, is that this foments the apathy that keeps people from the polls. Especially when it brackets Biden as being little more than just another facet of the political problem.

The thinking often seems to be, sure, Trump is ridiculously bad. But it's not like Biden is the guy to fix this. Because he's a pile of shit too.

But the reality is that Biden saving America from Trump would be a monumental accomplishment just on its own, regardless of whether or not he manages to be an inspiring or accomplished leader. This is really the only argument that matters anymore. Regardless of one's misgivings with Biden (which I imagine most of us have), getting him elected needs a laser like focus.

And is it unfortunate Trump has cornered discourse into being this hyperbolic. But he is the rare instance where hyperbole is warranted.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:27 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:20 pm
I'm just saying....I haven't seen a post where you've shit-posted Trump here, and I'm not going to go back to 2015 to find one.
My apologies, Trump is a giant walking fascist turd and should’ve been catapulted into the ocean back when he started his birther nonsense and should’ve been shamed out of society for his comments yesterday about Martin Gugino, better?
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by The Nameless Two » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:29 pm

Like, shit, dudes busy tweeting about the 75 year old knocked down and brain injured by two police officers suggesting he’s some ANTIFA operative, like, what? Stfu Trump
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:29 pm

On funding, as is the case with most issues, the dollar amount is far less important than how those dollars are allocated. There are lots of areas which deserve to be defunded, and I mentioned several. On the other hand, the kind of re-training being proposed will cost money, at least short-term. The federal dollars that Bernie was dangling are not free, they are incentives for following through on the civil rights standards.

More direct to the point of the election, an American presidential candidate is not going to win an election on a platform of putting police out of work. It's not going to happen. There's a reason why Pub pols have been licking their lips ever since this became a broadside. It doesn't help to have most of the Defund supporters clarify that they don't literally mean defunding. It's a poor slogan and poor politics. We can just as easily begin to reimagine law enforcement priorities without having to excuse or explain why the sign on the tent isn't completely accurate.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:31 pm

Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:27 pm
My apologies, Trump is a giant walking fascist turd and should’ve been catapulted into the ocean back when he started his birther nonsense and should’ve been shamed out of society for his comments yesterday about Martin Gugino, better?
6/10
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:33 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:27 pm
I feel that the greatest concern is that putting Biden under the microscope for his many failings to be the candidate American ideally might need to instigate change, is that this foments the apathy that keeps people from the polls. Especially when it brackets Biden as being little more than just another facet of the political problem.

The thinking often seems to be, sure, Trump is ridiculously bad. But it's not like Biden is the guy to fix this. Because he's a pile of shit too.

But the reality is that Biden saving America from Trump would be a monumental accomplishment just on its own, regardless of whether or not he manages to be an inspiring or accomplished leader. This is really the only argument that matters anymore. Regardless of one's misgivings with Biden (which I imagine most of us have), getting him elected needs a laser like focus.

And is it unfortunate Trump has cornered discourse into being this hyperbolic. But he is the rare instance where hyperbole is warranted.

The crux of what I’m expressing with my displeasure towards Biden is genuine disbelief that his election will save America. America isn’t going to be saved by electing one of it’s worst Democrats. America needs radical transformation( and by radical I mean just being more like European nations with robust social programs and non-militarized police) and nothing about the Democrats, or Biden’s record makes me believe we’ll see that under a Biden presidency.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:37 pm

What type of proposed training will effectively deprogram any of the thousands of police officers subjected to David Grossman’s “Killology” teachings? Police departments need a total purging of officers trained under that system( something similar to Camden’s report of disbanding and then rehiring) rubber stamp a huge NO on any cop reapplying who took those courses.

Police budgets are already ghastly overfunded as is, the last thing we need to realistically solve the issue is adding more. Make them reallocate what they already have and fund it by ejecting the officers who have no business being cops.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by The Nameless Two » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:40 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:27 pm
And is it unfortunate Trump has cornered discourse into being this hyperbolic. But he is the rare instance where hyperbole is warranted.
God this sentiment terrifies me but I don’t think you are incorrect here...

It is a balancing act, apathy is the weight of the situation. Discourse can either expand the base or close it off, critique is a dangerous torch in light of the greater good. You are, ultimately, trying to get the best deal for everyone, and yourself, in providing argument to Biden’s policies. It is easy to turn this into an impossible mountain to climb. The severity of Trump does go a way to suppress this conversation, but it needs to be discussed.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:40 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:27 pm
But the reality is that Biden saving America from Trump would be a monumental accomplishment just on its own, regardless of whether or not he manages to be an inspiring or accomplished leader. This is really the only argument that matters anymore. Regardless of one's misgivings with Biden (which I imagine most of us have), getting him elected needs a laser like focus.
I'm not hoping for Biden to "save America", as the rot that Trump represents will require the kind of civic therapy that lasts long after Biden is gone. But I will agree that he's pretty much beside-the-point on the main objective. I don't merely want Trump to lose in November. I want an irrevocably unambiguous landslide indictment against his style of governance. I'm hoping for the kind of election returns that shut him up for the rest of his lame duck residence, just to slime off sulking into his last AFO flight outta town, blaming Melania simply because there is no one else left. This isn't a vindictive fantasy on my part. I sincerely believe that such a consensual repudiation is absolutely necessary for the country to heal.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:43 pm

San Diego just voted to give their police force an additional $25 million in the wake of a video where their officers essentially abduct a woman into an unmarked van and threaten to shoot her friend who is demanding answers. It’s hard to quantify the horror of these incidents since there’s so god damn many and they’re all horrifying, but that one places in the top 20.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:50 pm

Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:33 pm
The crux of what I’m expressing with my displeasure towards Biden is genuine disbelief that his election will save America. America isn’t going to be saved by electing one of it’s worst Democrats. America needs radical transformation( and by radical I mean just being more like European nations with robust social programs and non-militarized police) and nothing about the Democrats, or Biden’s record makes me believe we’ll see that under a Biden presidency.
I hear you. And you won't get me disagreeing that America needs fundamental changes. You also won't get me to say I think Biden is the guy to solve them. But, for the moment, he is the only one that can save America from a second term for Trump, and I doubt any of us can even fathom what America could be after that.

Will there also be possible challenges in the future from another noxious Republican candidate? Will Biden open the door for their ascension. Maybe. I don't know. I can only respond to the present danger at hand, and it has the potential to be well beyond the dreadful political status quo that has existed for decades already. It will almost without question be catastrophic, both domestically and globally.

I don't have the hate towards Biden you do, but I'm no fan. With the exception of Warren, I found most of the candidates to be dreadful. But in Canada, we had a similar concern in one of our most recent elections. My hand was forced to vote for a complete nicompoop in Trudeau, who I have overtly despised for years. But compared with Harper, who had been undermining our Canadian democracy much more clandestinely than Trump was for many years, I had to vote for him and for a party I had never considered before. Holding noses was necessary, but as much as I still cringe everytime Trudeau opens his mouth, I can't say I remotely regret my choice. Or trying to convince others to do likewise. Because there wasn't any choice. And as far as I can see, there isn't any in this situation either. And it's a much much much worse situation.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:50 pm

This isn’t even getting into the party that’s supposed to repudiate and stop Trump have helped him reshape the courts, rubber stamped his military budgets, and didn’t do anything to try and stop him until he gunned for Joe’s failson. Nothing about them gives me faith in them.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by DaMU » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:51 pm

Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:33 pm
The crux of what I’m expressing with my displeasure towards Biden is genuine disbelief that his election will save America. America isn’t going to be saved by electing one of it’s worst Democrats. America needs radical transformation( and by radical I mean just being more like European nations with robust social programs and non-militarized police) and nothing about the Democrats, or Biden’s record makes me believe we’ll see that under a Biden presidency.
I've already made peace with the fact that my civic engagement for the rest of my life is basically going to be like Conan described it: doing sit-ups every day. There's never going to be a point where I've done all the sit-ups. I'm a white cishet male living in the USA, born in the '80s, raised in the '90s in peak modern American decadence/blind optimism. I've experienced some outrageous privilege and never "had to" give this much of a shit, because of my bubbles and that privilege. I regret that, but I also am not going to dwell on it; I'm going to do what I can, now, to help.

I'm going to happily vote for Biden, and I have not a single delusion that his election will "save America." Trump is emblematic of a rot; in some ways, he's an accounting of what people like me have either endorsed or passively allowed with finger-wags and furrowed brows. I'm trying to do better. Part of that, to me, is making sure I vote against Trump, for Biden, and then after that? Spreading info, making donations, and being activist in what ways I can for more progressive solutions.

Biden is a small step away from disaster, but it's a step. We need to take every step we can. And if Biden wants to stop at where he is on those stairs that are leading us out of this cesspool, if he feels he's climbed high enough, I'm gonna do what I can to help others drag him, kicking and screaming, to the next step up. Or, if it ultimately comes to that, leave him behind.
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:56 pm

Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:13 pm
- Their response to Leftist protest is to ignore calls for defunding and propose more funding for the same types of reform that haven’t worked, they wouldn’t work under Trump obviously, but they’ve done nothing to convince the left they’ll do anything either, they’re dangling the possibility at best.
Again, defunding is about as popular as Congress right now. I don't know what world you think we're living in where they leverage their unpopularity to boost defunding and magically will it into existence. Most policing is at the state or local level, which Congress has little power to address. People's political hobbyist obsession with national politics blurs the issue here. Where we're seeing some of the most momentum and where we need it most is from the ground up, with initial steps springing up in places like LA and Minneappolis. The federal level comes more slowly and there's only so much they can do. As for their opening proposals, the notion that it's the same types of reform we've seen before is nuts. There's a clear and sudden shift in the legislative winds towards making it easier to punish cops, track abuse, and to cut off federal funding for departments that don't fall in line.
Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:13 pm
- Earlier in mentioned how it’s politically unwise for Biden to get onboard with defunding, when regardless of whether he does it is or not there’s a far reaching reactionary media machine that will ascribe that position to him even when he publicly opposes it. Maybe public opinion changes if Biden is actually the guy the right paints him as and he uses his position and actual real influence to advocate for that position and sway the public? That thing politicians should do?
So what if they're painting him with it anyway? That doesn't make it any less dumb for him to embrace a position polling at 16%. Politicians can help move the needle on public sentiment to an extent, but if you're expecting a minimum 40 point turnaround in sentiment inspired by JOE BIDEN, you're in cloud cuckooland. Let's be honest, no has that kind of sway, and him definitely not being the most swayful. We're in a fiercely partisan context where most of the action happens around the margins.
Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:13 pm
- As an adult who has been reading up on and learning about the active harm caused by Biden’s legislative actions over my lifetime, what do you propose I discuss regarding Biden? Do I pretend none of that happened?
By all means, talk about it. But none of that justifies you blowing up smoke about present proposals, misreading the avenues for progressive action, and making futile, mispunching attacks.
Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:13 pm
- I just addressed three specific proposals and how they’re unlikely to result in real substantial change.
I mean, you asked three questions about them. But the fact that you're entirely focused on a federal, national proposal however doesn't suggest that you appreciate where most of the change needs to come from.
Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:13 pm
- How does pointing out Biden’s past record not properly contextualize where we’re at now? He helped propagate assets forfeiture, created the disparity in sentencing for crack/powder cocaine, that’s all important towards the context of where we are now with law enforcement. He’s been in government longer than I’ve been alive and has been doing active harm the majority of the time.
And now he's been pushed substantially leftward on the issue to the point of having the most progressive CJR platform of a nominee in our nation's history, and this at an inflection point in our national conversation about policing that's pushing the conversation even further leftward. You can dwell back in the nineties or pull your hair out over his present proposal, but with things as they are, that's not the only legislation that will be crossing his desk should he become president. And oh yeah, context and all, remember that his opponent is the guy essentially endorsing a police state? Yeah. That.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:59 pm

Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:33 pm
America needs radical transformation( and by radical I mean just being more like European nations with robust social programs and non-militarized police)
Nothing bad happening with them either, I take it.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:04 pm

Ergill wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:59 pm
Nothing bad happening with them either, I take it.
Their cops aren’t constantly doing public executions.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:12 pm

Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:04 pm
Their cops aren’t constantly doing public executions.
The global trend towards autocratic illiberalism doesn't suggest we can continue to take this for granted.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:22 pm

Ergill wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:12 pm
The global trend towards autocratic illiberalism doesn't suggest we can continue to take this for granted.
What’s the solution for that outside of undoing centuries of mass imperialism that resulted in several refugee crises that helped white nationalist authoritarian from coming to power? That’s not meant as a snarky question btw, I sincerely want to know what can be done to combat that.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:29 pm

I guess one major obstacle in my perspective is that I have very little respect for the theory that Trump's win was an inevitable consequence of Obama's presidency to the degree that it would begin to make sense to blame Obama singularly for that outcome.

I heard Meghan McCain try to make this case a couple of weeks ago. Apparently, in her telling, no one knew of the existence of "race" in America until Obama came a-strutting and just rubbing the nation's face in the fact. Part of me wants to forgive and pity the woman, because after all the majority of our country's racial problems were before she was born, but another side just chalks this up to that other national fantasy of Obama as America's magical janitor, here to sweep and flush away all of our foundational sins, so that any stain of them should remain are testament of his failure. So obviously Trump supporters, having had to endure 8 whole years of looking at him all the time, naturally had no choice but to vote for Him Who Says What Was Too Scary in an unabashed attempt to bring back 1950 textbooks.

Sure, I could criticize Obama over a number of things, but can anyone honestly take an assessment of the post-war presidents and find a better one? I don't think that an objective analysis, weighing all of the pros/cons, will reveal another. I hope to vote for a better president that Obama some day. And I'll thank him for not burning it all down when he had the chance.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:35 pm

And cool, I am wrong to conflate federal level funding initiatives with local and state scale, and hey I hope Biden does win and make a difference, but nothing of his record gives me a belief he’ll fight for it if he wins.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Ergill » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:46 pm

Smoke Bomb wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:22 pm
What’s the solution for that outside of undoing centuries of mass imperialism that resulted in several refugee crises that helped white nationalist authoritarian from coming to power? That’s not meant as a snarky question btw, I sincerely want to know what can be done to combat that.
First of all acknowledging that trend as one of the central, pivotal issues of the moment. Next, realizing that we can't just gesture towards Europe as the land where our revolutionary proposals have worked, because ultimately, they're having to deal with very similar trade-offs that we are. There's no bumper sticker to solve this. There's on-the-ground dissent and there are idealistic advocates working to articulate measures that can seep into the national conversation. The rest of us have to deal with political parties we don't like, but I struggle to think of a democratic society in which that wasn't the case. Citizens in The Weimar Republic didn't care for it and a slue of parties vied for power. The left and the center-left couldn't manage to form a coalition and it it fell into one of the worst autocracies in history. We can beat ourselves up over our own decline, but we pale next to that. And yet after it's societal implosion, Germany came back after the war and rebuilt a republic, and whatever its flaws, you can point to it today and say, "Gee, I wish we were more like that" on any number of levels.
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Re: A Corrierino Awareness Thread

Post by Smoke Bomb » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:52 pm

Would like on the record that when I brought up European social programs it wasn’t to absolve them of their issues, but to point that investing in society instead of policing society is the direction we should be facing. That the nations with those attitudes and programs have dramatically lower instances of police violence than America.
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