YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:29 am

Das wrote:Huh, I hadn't checked this. Pleasant surprise though.

Scum(79) is a favorite of mine - I don't think Clarke ever really crosses the line with either version of the film, his use of it is all things considered, incredibly restrained, he limits the uses of violence pretty actively by my memory (There's a fair amount of off-screen happenings) to make the impact of the violence more painful to the viewer. Because it should absolutely be painful, it's not surprising it was banned by the BBC at all - as the film actively engages a painful issue that was quite prominent at the time for British society without flinching, or sugarcoating much of anything in the process, most of Clarke's work is like that - I think it really transcends the politics of its era though. He was a great, but unflinching humanist in a lot of ways.
Which is his best work, as you see it?
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Das » Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:10 am

YouTookMyName wrote: Which is his best work, as you see it?
Elephant is his finest film, I feel.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:24 am

Das wrote: Elephant is his finest film, I feel.
I'll try to see that. It's one minute under the 40 required for feature length!

Did it have any influence on the van Sant film with the same title? I haven't seen but the first few minutes of that film. And none of the Clarke. Dang! The link on the IMDb page for the Clarke film links to an Amazon page for the van Sant film. Nuts.

Apparently available on DVD in an out of print collection. Mebbe teh Flix has it. I'll go look.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Das » Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:24 am

YouTookMyName wrote: I'll try to see that. It's one minute under the 40 required for feature length!

Did it have any influence on the van Sant film with the same title? I haven't seen but the first few minutes of that film. And none of the Clarke. Dang! The link on the IMDb page for the Clarke film links to an Amazon page for the van Sant film. Nuts.

Apparently available on DVD in an out of print collection. Mebbe teh Flix has it. I'll go look.
Don't forget the library - if not, it's easy to find online, streamed or for download.

It has to do with gun violence, so I'd not be surprised if it influenced Van Sant's movie in some way. (I don't know though.)
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:51 pm

Das wrote: Don't forget the library - if not, it's easy to find online, streamed or for download.

It has to do with gun violence, so I'd not be surprised if it influenced Van Sant's movie in some way. (I don't know though.)
I found a YouTube link and watched it last night. It seems to have many qualities in common with abstract paintings.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:53 pm

A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)
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Papaver somniferum!


Novel and 1939 movie.
Membs? Wikie West puts Dots, Tins, Strawman, Totie and Cowie Line in a field of poppies as they near the Emmy Cit. (Don't you have to write like this if you're discussing musicals?) They go to sleep, until Glennie makes snow fall on 'em. Dots, Totie and Cowie Line have fallen asleep from the vapes coming off teh pops!
In Chapter 8 Frank Baum wrote:They now came upon more and more of the big scarlet poppies, and fewer and fewer of the other flowers; and soon they found themselves in the midst of a great meadow of poppies. Now it is well known that when there are many of these flowers together their odor is so powerful that anyone who breathes it falls asleep, and if the sleeper is not carried away from the scent of the flowers, he sleeps on and on forever. But Dorothy did not know this, nor could she get away from the bright red flowers that were everywhere about; so presently her eyes grew heavy and she felt she must sit down to rest and to sleep.
Could it happen in reals? Does a field of poppies make you sleepers?
No. No, they don't. And asbestos flakes won't wake you up.

Best answer below has to do with the people who harvest the flowers not falling asleep. Heh.

Wish I had thought of that when I was a young teenager. I'd have been able to blow the entire movie for the rest of the peeps around me by pointing out that one thing. Hee hee.



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One
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10 Ways the Opium Poppy has changed the World brandonladd May 8, 2010 at listverse.
The Wizard of Oz - poppies @ YouTube
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:19 am

A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)
The Wizard of Oz (1925)
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IMDb link 5.2/10 from 866 users -- RT-link No Tomatometer; 77% with 61,501 users

Year: 1925 Director: Larry Semon -- Cast: Larry Semon, Dorothy Dwan, Oliver Hardy, Charles Murray -- Length: 81/72 min. Tinted/Silent

The L. Frank Baum novel of 1900 is not a message novel. It's just for fun.

This film came out after WWI broke the world. It is also just for fun. But the production company went bankrupt from the cost of the production, so the film was not widely exhibited. For that reason, 14 years later MGM cobbled together an ultimately more famous version of the story, and the later version controls the "rightness" of the Oz story. So, this one seems pale in comparison.

Writer-director Larry Semon's career was waning when he directed this film, but he was apparently quite a residual force at the time the film came out. Regardless, his fame didn't last even until my childhood. This film was broadcast on television in June 1931, shown in three parts, according to IMDb. I'm sure viewer-ship was small in number. Television wasn't going to catch on until the post-WWII economic improvements. I just find it interesting that this film was chosen for broadcast via the new medium only 6 years after it failed at the box office.

The film is not terrible. But it also doesn't rise above the ordinary. The Turner tinted release is worth a watch if you are a student of films. You can find it on YouTube. It is an extra on a release of the 1939 film. But when you watch it the movie will not seem like an Oz picture. At least, it doesn't to me. This despite the presence of one of Baum's sons as co-writer on the project.

Here are some aspects of the film and whether I like them or don't care for them:

Like: The film is mostly slapstick, which means it has a lot of comic action and not much in the way of plot. But the book's plot was streamlined for the more famous 1939 version, too.
Don't Like: The slapstick sequences are more than half the film, and they are padded. Clever though they are, they don't evoke much laughter on my part, so I could have done without them. I think. But then there would have been no film.

Like: The special effects range from jump cuts with replacement of props, to high altitude stunts, to matte composites, to animated swarms of bees. These are all very well done, and are fun to watch. The film presents silent-film style thrills and spectacle. The effects are so good that Chadwick Pictures Corporation, the film company producing the movie went bankrupt, and most of the theaters that booked the film never received it to exhibit, according to trivia at IMDb.

Like: Larry Semon, who I never heard of before I bought a $1 DVD of the 1925 film at Dollar Tree a few years ago, is actually a pretty good comedian. He transforms Frank Baum's story into something fairly amusing, but it isn't the version of the story told by the most famous film version, so it seems "off" somehow. That's not necessarily the fault of this film. Remember, it existed for 14 years before the MGM extravaganza was made.

Don't Like: G. Howe Black is good in his role, but I don't like the role. He plays a black guy who is dumb. How original. Racist angles are not unexpected for the time. And at the end he makes a transition to a slightly heroic character, but overall the role is a sad commentary on 1925 America.

Don't Like: The film goes on for so long that you want it to be over much sooner. There just isn't enough meat, and you're left with a lot of applesauce on your plate.

Watch it or avoid it. Your life will be much the same. If you watch it, do so for the production values and the slapstick comedy/stunts. You can't watch it for the "Oz." And be sure to see the restored, tinted version. The other one I have is a terrible transfer of a terrible print.



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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Das » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:30 am

It's amazing how much the 1939 version of The Wizard of Oz so completely overpowers the existence of the other films.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:10 am

I guess that's the impact you have if you're famous enough.

I watched the film tonight for the first time since my sons gave me the DVD for Christmas 1998. They didn't watch the DVD with me. Ever.

So now I can write the review of a film I've seen about a dozen times over the years. One that overshadows all other Oz movies ever made. One claimed to be the most-watched film in human history.

From 1956 until 1967 all the viewings were on old black and white sets. But in early 1968 my father bought (gasp) a color television. So I watched the movie once with the color parts in color, and then decided I was too old to watch it again. And didn't until I rented a VHS tape to watch with my sons. As far as I know they may have seen the film only once!

What can I write that hasn't already been written? :shifty:
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:24 am

A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)
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Other Historical Oz films

Are you interested in early films at all? Did you know that L. Frank Baum actually wrote, produced and even directed films based on his Oz characters and stories? I learned quite a bit about the early history of Oz films when I was researching this Rematch.

The earliest known Oz film, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (1910) was made by a company that won the rights to make the film in a debt settlement deal with Baum (the Selig Polyscope Company). Until the 1939 version went to television no Oz film was actually a financial success. Reports differ on the cost of the 1939 film (the 1998 DVD insert says the production cost $3.7 million; IMDb says it cost $2.7 million), but the sources agree that the take upon initial release was $3 million. So it either scraped by with $300,000.00 profit, or lost $700,000.00 depending on who's correct, here.

Of course the films produced by The Oz Film Manufacturing Company in 1914 cost less, but the first one released through Paramount was a flop.
Wikipedia wrote:The Patchwork Girl of Oz was accepted onto the Paramount distribution program, but when the picture fared poorly, Paramount refused to take on the additional productions.
The others didn't get released until much later. Only three are known to survive: The Patchwork Girl of Oz (1914), The Magic Cloak of Oz (1914), and His Majesty The Scarecrow of Oz (1914, but not released until 1917). The third of these reportedly cost $23,500.00 to make. Baum didn't invest any of his own money in the company. When it failed, Baum's son Frank Joslyn Baum took it over and changed the name to Dramatic Features Co. That company also failed in the summer of 1915. In 1925, Frank Joslyn Baum was one of the writers for the Larry Semon film that also tanked in theaters and drove another production company (Semon's) bankrupt.

His Majesty The Scarecrow wasn't released until three years after it was completed. And it didn't do well. Why Larry Semon thought his Oz ideas were a sure-fire success, who knows? In fact, it's a valid question to ask why anyone was willing to invest in the 1939 extravaganza!

Baum made an amazing fortune from sales of his books, but he and his family were never able to get the magic of the Land of Oz to translate to stage or screen with anything but disastrous results (in terms of finance). Artistically, the stage play Fairylogue and Radio-Plays and the Oz Company films were well-done. But it takes a lot of money to translate fantasy to the crystalline reality of the movie screen, and that sets any venture with Oz up for likely box-office failure. For example, the 2013 Raimi film cost $215,000,000 (estimated) to produce, and the US gross was $234,911,825 as of 13 September 2013. It's looking very much like the early Oz balance sheets, so far. Worldwide it will probably turn a profit, and then there are video discs. But Baum and his colleagues didn't have DVD and cable TV sales to bank on. They had nothing but butt in seat revenues, and they couldn't get enough derrières where they were needed to make a go of it.

In the Weblinks section below you can find the four Selig, and Oz Company films from archive.org, if you're that curious about them. I did not watch all of them in order to write this essay. But I got links, and downloaded copies to my HDD to watch eventually. I simply find the failures more interesting than the one big success.



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Other Movie Adaptations at http://ozclub.org. "In 1910, the Selig Polyscope Company released four shorts based on Baum’s fantasy works: The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, The Land of Oz, Dorothy and the Scarecrow in Oz, and John Dough and the Cherub (the latter based on a non-Oz novel of the same name). To date, only The Wonderful Wizard of Oz has been found."
The Oz Film Manufacturing Company. "J. Farrell MacDonald directed all of the film productions and acted in some of them. L. Frank Baum wrote all the scripts, and Louis F. Gottschalk wrote complete original scores that were sent out with the films, at time when improvising stock cues from the repertoire was common. James A. Crosby was the studio cinematographer, and Will H. White was the technical director. The records do not show who was responsible for film editing."
Oz Film Manufacturing Company at Oz Wikia. "Baum provided the film rights to his books, and Gottschalk composed music for the productions. The other investors raised $100,000. The new company purchased a seven-acre plot of land and built what was then considered the most advanced movie studio in the country, equipped for turning out special-effects-heavy Oz fantasies. "
The Patchwork Girl of Oz (1914) at archive.org
The Patchwork Girl of Oz at Oz Wikia
The Magic Cloak of Oz (1914) at archive.org
The Magic Cloak of Oz at Oz Wikia
His Majesty The Scarecrow of Oz (1914) at archive.org
His Majesty, the Scarecrow of Oz at Oz Wikia
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (1910) at archive.org
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (1910) at Oz Wikia
The Wizard of Oz Collection 4 Movie Pack (2005) from Amazon.
Oz the Great and Powerful (2013) at IMDb
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:11 am

A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)

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The Unconditional Dog

There is a lot of talk in these times about a relatively new invention of the human mind: unconditional love. Mothers are supposed to have it for their children, friends for other friends. The only unconditional love I've ever seen in my life is the love of a dog for its master. That's the closest thing to worship you'll ever see on the face of the earth. And no two humans have it for one another. They might be able to pretend for a short period of time. But conditions always creep in. Not that they haven't been there all along.

Toto is not pretending. Toto loves Dorothy, and will do anything to get back to her (not back at her). But, whereas the Tin Woodsman, the Cowardly Lion and the Scarecrow are mere humans in disguise, Dot's little doggie is unconditionally a dog. He almost always acts like a dog. The Scarecrow rarely acts like a scarecrow. The Lion never once acts like a lion. And how does a Tin Woodsman act? I'm clueless there.

Toto has the greatest presence in the 1939 film. In the opening sequences of the film Toto is the only one paying any attention to Dorothy. She's in Aunt Em's way, and her Uncle's way. She's barely tolerated by the farm hands, but her Aunt comes to shoo her away so the men can work. And in this lonely state she sings the beautifully sombre "Over the Rainbow." Mid-song, Toto offers her a little paw-shake. You might say, the dog reaches out to the girl in her isolation. So, it's no wonder that Dorothy runs away when Elvira Gulch's prisoner, the aforesaid Toto, escapes from his prison lorrie and trots back home to Dot.

Toto's only shining moment in the film is when he leads the trio of oddlings to Dorothy's prison in the Wicked Witch's castle. The rest of the time he's like Paris Hilton's purse-dog. But Toto is always there. Devotedly. Reliably. Unconditionally.



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Dog disovered in Humane Society to play Toto in the Wiz June 2, 2009 in the examiner.com
Toto "In the 1939 movie The Wizard of Oz, Toto was played by a female brindle Cairn Terrier whose real name was Terry. She was paid a $125 salary each week, which was far more than many of the human actors (the Singer Midgets who played the Munchkins reportedly received $50 to $100 a week)."
Terry "Terry died aged 11 of old age in Hollywood on September 1, 1945 and was buried at Spitz's ranch in Studio City, Los Angeles. The grave was destroyed during the construction of the Ventura Freeway in 1958.[6]"
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:46 pm

A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)

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The Land You See While Under

It all takes place in Dorothy's imagination. That's what I thought when I watched the movie as a pre-teen. I was convinced that there isn't supposed to be any such place as Oz, and that Dorothy was knocked out during the storm, had a hallucination, and when she came to she was in her bed in her room in Aunt Em's house. (This was the idea of writer Noel Langley, one of 14 writers who worked on the script, and one of three who receive screen credit for their work.)

But that's only the take of the MGM film. Frank Baum's novel suggests no such thing. That's why there is no suggestion of that in The Wiz. I've read that it follows the story of the novel much more closely than the more famous 1939 film. The 1925 film seems to be about something altogether different.

Was it important to the audiences of 1939 that the fantasy not be real? When I was a kid I remember a lot of movies deriding those who were "dreamers," that is, impractical people who thought things could be better. When Dorothy is getting ready to return to Kansas from Oz she tells Glinda, the Witch of the North what she has learned. Now, Dorothy isn't supposed to be a stupid little girl, or a country bumpkin. But the writers have a meltdown at one place. Listen to this gobbledygook (you can almost hear the brains of the writers rattling around trying to be obtuse):
GLINDA: You don't need to be helped any longer. You've always had the power to go back to Kansas.
DOROTHY: I have?
SCARECROW: Then why didn't you tell her before?
GLINDA: Because she wouldn't have believed me. She had to learn it for herself.
TIN MAN: What have you learned, Dorothy?
DOROTHY: Well, I -- I think that it -- that it wasn't enough just to want to see Uncle Henry and Auntie Em -- and it's that -- if I ever go looking for my heart's desire again, I won't look any further than my own backyard. Because if it isn't there, I never really lost it to begin with! Is that right?
This makes no sense. Just try to make Dot's line make any sense. Get this, the ideal approach to life is "if I ever go looking for my heart's desire again, I won't look any further than my own backyard. Because if it isn't there, I never really lost it to begin with!" which means that things are as good as they are ever going to be. But no one can tell you that, you have to figure it out for yourself. So, kids, get all those notions about changing the world out of your dainty li'l noggins, because it isn't going to happen. You should be happy as you are!

And Glinda doesn't sound mystical with her pompous, "Because she wouldn't have believed me. She had to learn it for herself." She manages to only sound like a politician trying to answer a question that doesn't have an answer. Now, why wouldn't Dorothy have believed her? She believed that she should follow the yellow brick road. And she spent a lot of time believing Glinda while she stepped off the distance between Munchkinland and the Emerald City. Of all the bad writing in this film, this might be the best (worst?) example.

Fortunately, this kind of thing influenced the 1978 stage musical-cum-movie very little. There has to be social commentary if you're making a film in the 1970s. It has to be there, but it doesn't have to make any sense. Thank goodness, the 1978 film mostly goes in for catchy songs, bizarre sets, groovy costumes, and singin' and dancin' during most of its run. In many ways it is more like the novel.

And the '39 number has its share of empty-headedness. That's good, because when they try to be heady it's kind of like the Scarecrow is making it up for us before he misquotes the Pythagorean Theorem! But there is one major truth in the scene between the Wizard and the gang
SCARECROW: How can I ever thank you enough?
WIZARD: Well, you can't.
Imagine if Pete Jackson had decided to rewrite Tolkien so that it was all just a dream in someone's storm-battered head. Would that have gone over well these days? No. We like our fantasy to be -- er -- real. Or at least an Alternate Reality. But maybe in the practical 30s and 40s Tolkien as mere dream would have sold!



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Noel Langley from Oz Wikia
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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:49 pm

A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)

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Song vs. Song

There are no songs in the 1925 film. This is not surprising, because it's a silent movie. Both the 1939 The Wizard of Oz film and The Wiz have songs. Memorable songs. Some irritating songs. Some forgettable songs.

Each has a road song: '39 has Follow the Yellow Brick Road, while the '78 moves from place to place as the characters sing Ease on Down the Road. Which is the more potent ear worm for you?

Ding Dong the Witch is Dead! has a counterpart in Everybody Rejoice/A Brand New Day.

There is not a single counterpart to If I Only Had A Brain/A Heart/the Nerve. Each of the traveling trio in The Wiz gets his own anthem, but they are different songs. I think it's clever of the 1939 composers to make all three of the companions introduce what they long to claim with the same melody. It allows for a bit of handing off of lines, and reinforcement of their co-felt desires.

Of all the songs in both films It Really Was no Miracle (the -itch song) is probably the most bizarre. Without straining too badly the composers manage to rhyme a passel of words that contain -itch. There is no counterpart in style or weirdness in The Wiz. The closest might be The Emerald City Sequence where the Wiz keeps changing the acceptable color of the moment.

Most of the 21 songs in the 1939 film are memorable. A scant half hour after I viewed The Wiz, I can recall only Ease on Down the Road and A Brand New Day with any fidelity at all from the 24 musical numbers in that film. I can envision the set pieces that accompany other musical numbers, but nothing of the music stays in my memory.

There is an outtake of a song that was mercifully removed from The Wizard of Oz prior to release. It's called The Jitterbug, and you can find a weblink below if you want to hear it. The song is retained in many modern stage performances of the musical.



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The Jitterbug from Wikipedia
Judy Garland - The Jitterbug [outtake] (The Wizard Of Oz, 1939) from YouTube
The Wizard of Oz (1939 film)(Song List)
The Wiz (film)(Song List)
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:13 pm

Well, ol' YTMN has to stop easin' on down this particular road, and begin to move with great vigor.

My younger son bought a plane ticket with my name on it just last night. I'll be flying to San Francisco on 16 December to visit him, and will return to the Hills of Arkansas on 19 December.

It will be good to see SFO again, as well as it will be great to see my kid. Actually, both sons will be up there. #1 son and his girl friend are going to arrive in SFO the same day that I do.

Main thing I want to do is travel north to the redwood stand up above the bay. I haven't seen that sucker since I was 6, and I've been out there four or five times since. But this is a no-business, pleasure only trip, so I don't have to meet any shoot schedules or foist video gear upon my clients this time. Video only if I want to crack out the new fist-size camera. Only if.

Hmm. Better buy a couple more batteries and a charger before I go! (Makes a note.)

And I'm looking forward to having no car, not even a rental, so that we can ride BART everywhere. I've never done that. The kid will meet me at SFO after riding the BART vehicles down there, and I'll drag my luggage back to his downtown flat on same BART gadgets, yee hah!


Yeah. I am excite.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:29 pm

A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)

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Of the Ruby Slippers

They were silver in the novel. They are silver in The Wiz. And they are silver in Tin Man. But what good would silver slippers have been in a Technicolor movie? Screenwriter Noel Langley wanted bright, glittering red slippers on Judy Garland's feet. Gilbert Adrian brought them to life.

When I was in my 20s (I think) I heard that the famous ruby slippers were being auctioned. Then I heard that Steven Spielberg had paid $25,000 to own them. But I can't find that on the internet. Did I imagine it? People aren't even sure how many pairs were made, or where they are. One pair is in the Smithsonian Institution. The Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences has a pair that Leo DiCaprio and Steven Spielberg helped raise money to buy. Some say that there are only two other pairs known, today.

Why are these shoes famous? Why would props that went on an actress' feet garner so much attention, especially when they are falling apart? Maybe those who care so much about the shoes (they are one of the most frequently visited exhibits at the Smithsonian) are recapturing a feeling from their childhood. But I can't find anyone's speculation on the big, wide internet about why they are popular. I must not have Googled the right keywords.

There are innumerable knock-offs of the slippers. Why not? The studio first tried spray-painting some leather slippers red. Then they hit on the idea of attaching thousands of sequins to a chiffon surface (I read, this and I don't have any idea what chiffon fabric is). The Oz Wikia tells us
Interestingly, the ruby slippers used in the film were more burgundy than red. The 3-strip Technicolor process used in 1939 could not reproduce colors with true-to-life fidelity, and various compromises were made out of necessity. Shoes that were actually red would have photographed as orange.
I find this even more interesting because the original 2-strip Technicolor process could not reproduce blue. Blue was one of the most prized colors in 3-strip Technicolor. But I had no idea that the emulsions continued to represent true reds as orangish tones. Whether by color-correction in post-digital transfer clean-up or by original color-timing in the release prints, the slippers look very red on my DVD.

If the slippers had remained silver, would there be a pair in the Smithsonian? Well, we can't know, but I'd bet not.





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Ruby Slippers from Oz Wikia. "The trouble lies in the fact that there was never any single authentic pair of ruby slippers. Crucial props and costumes in Hollywood films were made in multiple copies; Judy Garland's Dorothy costume was actually six blue-and-white checked gingham dresses."
Dorothy’s Ruby Slippers National Museum of American History website. "The Ruby Slippers were donated anonymously in 1979. The slippers are one of the most asked about artifacts at the Smithsonian."
Why You Won’t See The Ruby Slippers In OZ THE GREAT AND POWERFUL from Badass digest. Published March 04, 2013 by Devin Faraci. "In 1985 Disney released Return to Oz, and while that movie was an amalgamam of Oz book sequels (and featured character designs directly lifted from the Oz book illustrations, as opposed to The Wizard of Oz, which created mostly new designs), director Walter Murch wanted to use the famous Ruby Slippers. Disney paid through the nose to license the image from MGM."
Smithsonian Institution: Ruby Slippers. at YouTube. A QVC ad, actually.
Ruby Slippers from Wikipedia
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:37 am

YouTookMyName wrote: DOROTHY: Well, I -- I think that it -- that it wasn't enough just to want to see Uncle Henry and Auntie Em -- and it's that -- if I ever go looking for my heart's desire again, I won't look any further than my own backyard. Because if it isn't there, I never really lost it to begin with! Is that right?

This makes no sense. Just try to make Dot's line make any sense. Get this, the ideal approach to life is "if I ever go looking for my heart's desire again, I won't look any further than my own backyard. Because if it isn't there, I never really lost it to begin with!" which means that things are as good as they are ever going to be. But no one can tell you that, you have to figure it out for yourself.
Some pretty brutal dialogue and pixie dust reasoning.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:53 am

A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)

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Darker Shadows

Is it the shadow of nuclear weapons falling across the land even when we try to avert our gaze? Is it the specter of global warming and climate disaster that looms above the horizon? In 1939 WWII had not happened, although it had begun. The Wizard of Oz brought a breath of optimism into the theaters where it played. That's what audiences of that day wanted. Optimism. And gratuitous singing. A lot of gratuitous singing.

It must be the modern worry of nuclear annihilation that makes us want to see darkness. Entertainment is not a reprieve from the worst aspects of life, but we wallow in it to make ourselves more remote and more afraid. We call it "real life" but it is as much a delusion as the optimism of the 1939 film. No one has used the nuclear arsenal, but we just know that someone will. Someone will. We have convinced ourselves of it, so why relax? Why try to escape?

The 1939 film was cheerful, and now our films are not cheerful. We believe this. And that the difference is a marker of the difference in the times.

... But this is not true.

The year 1939 was not sweetness and light. Gone With the Wind is not an optimistic film, and it came out the same year. People have been pessimistic for as long as they have been optimistic. Old stories have been recast into modern imagery for as long as there have been tales to tell. It's not any different.

In 1985 Return to Oz brought destruction and darkness, to the point that many critics said it was not for children. But are children also dark in spirit nowadays? The film is not bad at all, with the Henson puppets helping out as some of the main characters. Once again, the film did not make enough money and there were no more movies based on Oz for a long time.

In 2007 Tin Man updated the ancient Baum story to modern, or future times. It is dark. Dreadful. If D.G. wins it will be because she triumphs over her evil sister, but the world will not be rendered clean. It is gritty, and tough. And the characters in it are tough. The Mystic Man is drugged, power is in the hands of an evil bitch. And it is what modern audiences want. Bleakness.

Do we believe that there is no escape? That the world has already gone to hell, and there is no saving it? That is the only explanation I can come up with for the transformation of Frank Baum's story for children into the dreary world of the Outer Zone. But I cannot say that the difference is a marker of the difference in the times.

The darkness is in the book. Yes, it's just for fun, but Frank Baum's life was so filled with dark clouds that it would have been impossible for him to conceive of a world where there weren't Wicked Witches or some adversity. In the 1939 film Dorothy faces adversities all in a row. The land of Oz is beautiful, but it has stretches where the county road crew isn't doing their job. And there is the problem of the Witch of the West. So, I'm not surprised to see the darkness in these sequels and prequels. It's just that in our times audiences seem to demand the darkness. Nothing is real without the darkness. If you leave out optimism from your story or update, that's okay, but don't shine too much light into my darkness, thank ya very much!


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Adaptations of The Wizard of Oz Wikipedia
Return to Oz Wikipedia. "Six months after returning home from the Land of Oz, Dorothy Gale has become a melancholic child who cannot sleep, as she is obsessed with her memories of Oz. This worries Aunt Em and Uncle Henry, who decide to take her to Dr. Worley, known for his revolutionary electric healing treatments."
Tin Man (TV miniseries) Wikipedia. "DG (Zooey Deschanel) is a small-town waitress who feels that she does not fit into her Kansas farm life and has visions of a lavender-eyed woman (Anna Galvin) warning her that a storm is coming."
Return To Oz on YouTube until they're forced to take it down.
Return to Oz (film) at Oz Wikia
Tin Man (miniseries) at Oz Wikia
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:04 pm

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A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)
Lines You Might Remember

The Wonderful Wizard of Oz 1900 novel Image
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Chapter One: “The Cyclone”

Aunt Em dropped her work and came to the door. One glance told her of the danger close at hand.

“Quick, Dorothy!” she screamed. “Run for the cellar!”

Toto jumped out of Dorothy’s arms and hid under the bed, and the girl started to get him. Aunt Em, badly frightened, threw open the trap door in the floor and climbed down the ladder into the small, dark hole. Dorothy caught Toto at last and started to follow her aunt. When she was halfway across the room there came a great shriek from the wind, and the house shook so hard that she lost her footing and sat down suddenly upon the floor.

Then a strange thing happened.

The house whirled around two or three times and rose slowly through the air. Dorothy felt as if she were going up in a balloon.


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Chapter Two: “The Council with the Munchkins”

When these people drew near the house where Dorothy was standing in the doorway, they paused and whispered among themselves, as if afraid to come farther. But the little old woman walked up to Dorothy, made a low bow and said, in a sweet voice:

“You are welcome, most noble Sorceress, to the land of the Munchkins. We are so grateful to you for having killed the Wicked Witch of the East, and for setting our people free from bondage.”

Dorothy listened to this speech with wonder. What could the little woman possibly mean by calling her a sorceress, and saying she had killed the Wicked Witch of the East? Dorothy was an innocent, harmless little girl, who had been carried by a cyclone many miles from home; and she had never killed anything in all her life.

But the little woman evidently expected her to answer; so Dorothy said, with hesitation, “You are very kind, but there must be some mistake. I have not killed anything.”

“Your house did, anyway,” replied the little old woman, with a laugh, “and that is the same thing. See!” she continued, pointing to the corner of the house. “There are her two feet, still sticking out from under a block of wood.”

Dorothy looked, and gave a little cry of fright. There, indeed, just under the corner of the great beam the house rested on, two feet were sticking out, shod in silver shoes with pointed toes.

“Oh, dear! Oh, dear!” cried Dorothy, clasping her hands together in dismay. “The house must have fallen on her. Whatever shall we do?”

“There is nothing to be done,” said the little woman calmly.

“But who was she?” asked Dorothy.

“She was the Wicked Witch of the East, as I said,” answered the little woman. “She has held all the Munchkins in bondage for many years, making them slave for her night and day. Now they are all set free, and are grateful to you for the favor.”


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Chapter 9: “The Queen of the Field Mice”

The Scarecrow and the Woodman now began to fasten the mice to the truck, using the strings they had brought. One end of a string was tied around the neck of each mouse and the other end to the truck. Of course the truck was a thousand times bigger than any of the mice who were to draw it; but when all the mice had been harnessed, they were able to pull it quite easily. Even the Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman could sit on it, and were drawn swiftly by their queer little horses to the place where the Lion lay asleep.

After a great deal of hard work, for the Lion was heavy, they managed to get him up on the truck. Then the Queen hurriedly gave her people the order to start, for she feared if the mice stayed among the poppies too long they also would fall asleep.

At first the little creatures, many though they were, could hardly stir the heavily loaded truck; but the Woodman and the Scarecrow both pushed from behind, and they got along better. Soon they rolled the Lion out of the poppy bed to the green fields, where he could breathe the sweet, fresh air again, instead of the poisonous scent of the flowers.

Dorothy came to meet them and thanked the little mice warmly for saving her companion from death. She had grown so fond of the big Lion she was glad he had been rescued.

Then the mice were unharnessed from the truck and scampered away through the grass to their homes. The Queen of the Mice was the last to leave.

“If ever you need us again,” she said, “come out into the field and call, and we shall hear you and come to your assistance. Good-bye!”

“Good-bye!” they all answered, and away the Queen ran, while Dorothy held Toto tightly lest he should run after her and frighten her.

After this they sat down beside the Lion until he should awaken; and the Scarecrow brought Dorothy some fruit from a tree near by, which she ate for her dinner.


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Chapter 14: “The Winged Monkeys”

“And what became of them?” asked Dorothy, who had been greatly interested in the story.

“Quelala being the first owner of the Golden Cap,” replied the Monkey, “he was the first to lay his wishes upon us. As his bride could not bear the sight of us, he called us all to him in the forest after he had married her and ordered us always to keep where she could never again set eyes on a Winged Monkey, which we were glad to do, for we were all afraid of her.

“This was all we ever had to do until the Golden Cap fell into the hands of the Wicked Witch of the West, who made us enslave the Winkies, and afterward drive Oz himself out of the Land of the West. Now the Golden Cap is yours, and three times you have the right to lay your wishes upon us.”

As the Monkey King finished his story Dorothy looked down and saw the green, shining walls of the Emerald City before them. She wondered at the rapid flight of the Monkeys, but was glad the journey was over. The strange creatures set the travelers down carefully before the gate of the City, the King bowed low to Dorothy, and then flew swiftly away, followed by all his band.


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Chapter 23: “Glinda the Good Witch Grants Dorothy’s Wish”

“This is all true,” said Dorothy, “and I am glad I was of use to these good friends. But now that each of them has had what he most desired, and each is happy in having a kingdom to rule besides, I think I should like to go back to Kansas.”

“The Silver Shoes,” said the Good Witch, “have wonderful powers. And one of the most curious things about them is that they can carry you to any place in the world in three steps, and each step will be made in the wink of an eye. All you have to do is to knock the heels together three times and command the shoes to carry you wherever you wish to go.”

“If that is so,” said the child joyfully, “I will ask them to carry me back to Kansas at once.”

She threw her arms around the Lion’s neck and kissed him, patting his big head tenderly. Then she kissed the Tin Woodman, who was weeping in a way most dangerous to his joints. But she hugged the soft, stuffed body of the Scarecrow in her arms instead of kissing his painted face, and found she was crying herself at this sorrowful parting from her loving comrades.

Glinda the Good stepped down from her ruby throne to give the little girl a good-bye kiss, and Dorothy thanked her for all the kindness she had shown to her friends and herself.

Dorothy now took Toto up solemnly in her arms, and having said one last good-bye she clapped the heels of her shoes together three times, saying:

“Take me home to Aunt Em!”

Instantly she was whirling through the air, so swiftly that all she could see or feel was the wind whistling past her ears.

The Silver Shoes took but three steps, and then she stopped so suddenly that she rolled over upon the grass several times before she knew where she was.

At length, however, she sat up and looked about her.

“Good gracious!” she cried.

For she was sitting on the broad Kansas prairie, and just before her was the new farmhouse Uncle Henry built after the cyclone had carried away the old one. Uncle Henry was milking the cows in the barnyard, and Toto had jumped out of her arms and was running toward the barn, barking furiously.


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The Wizard of Oz 1925 Image
The trouble with finding quotes in silent films is that inter-titles are used sparingly, and only for information that you cannot get by watching. So, I found a few to include here:
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Prime Minister Kruel (to audience in throne room): Watch ye skeptics, and see the great Wizard of black art perform. He has nothing up his sleeves nor under his coat. Neither has he anything under his hat!
Wizard: What was that last wise crack?
Kruel: Do your stuff, Wizzy!

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Narrative card: But what was in those papers and who was Dorothy?
(cut to the throne room of Oz)
Prince Kynd: Coronation day draws near and yet our rightful Ruler is not here. I give you until the new moon -- otherwise, the dungeon.
Lady Vishuss (to Kruel): Either get the papers and destroy them, or do away with the girl.
Kruel (to Ambassador Wikked): In a place called Kansas there are papers that will save us. Prepare for the journey.

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Prince Kynd: Well, Kruel, at last we have found our Queen.
Kruel: True enough, Prince Kynd. She rules our fair kingdom, but I am still the Dictator.

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Farmhand: Dorothy, I cross my heart, they're crossing you. Look out for these people.

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Knight of the Garter (after locking the Farmhand, who is dressed as a Scarecrow, into a lion's cage): Good-bye Mr. Scarecrow. Your'e not going to have anything to crow about, but you're surely going to have a lot to get scared about.

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The Wizard of Oz 1939 Image
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DOROTHY: We're not on the ground, Toto!

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GLINDA: Are you a good witch, or a bad witch?
DOROTHY: Who, me? Why, I'm not a witch at all. I'm Dorothy Gale from Kansas.
GLINDA: Oh! Well...is that the Witch?
DOROTHY: Who, Toto? Toto's my dog.
GLINDA: Well, I'm a little muddled. The Munchkins called me because a new witch has just dropped a house on the Wicked Witch of the East. And there's the house, and here you are, and that's all that's left of the Wicked Witch of the East.

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(Glinda and Dorothy standing by the pond -- Dorothy sings -- Munchkins in b.g.)

DOROTHY: (sings)
It really was no miracle. What happened was
just this:
The wind began to switch -- the house to pitch
And suddenly the hinges started to unhitch.
Just then, the witch -- to satisfy an itch --
Went flying on her broomstick thumbing for a hitch.

A MUNCHKIN
And oh, what happened then was rich!

MUNCHKINS (sing)
The house began to pitch
The kitchen took a slitch
It landed on the Wicked Witch
In the middle of a ditch
Which was not a healthy situation
For the Wicked Witch.
The house began to pitch
The kitchen took a slitch
It landed on the Wicked Witch in the middle of a ditch
Which
Was not a healthy sitch-
Uation for
The Wicked Witch,
Who
Began to twitch
And was reduced
To just a stitch
Of what was once
The Wicked Witch!

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DOROTHY: How can you talk if you haven't got a brain?
SCARECROW: I don't know. But some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't they?

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DOROTHY: Why, you're nothing but a great big coward!
LION: You're right -- I am a coward. I haven't any courage at all. I even scare myself. Look at the circles under my eyes. I haven't slept in weeks.
TIN MAN: Why don't you try counting sheep?
LION: That doesn't do any good -- I'm afraid of 'em.

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OZ'S VOICE: You dare to come to me for a heart, do you? You clinking, clanking, clattering collection of caliginous junk!

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WITCH: Ohhh -- you cursed brat! Look what you've done! I'm melting! Melting! Oh -- what a world -- what a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness!? Ohhh! Look out! Look out! I'm going. Ohhhh! Ohhhhhh....

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WIZARD: Yes-s-s -- that...that's exactly so. I'm a humbug!
DOROTHY: Oh...you're a very bad man!
WIZARD: Oh, no, my dear -- I'm -- I'm a very good man. I'm just a very bad Wizard.

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The Wiz 1978 Image
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Dorothy: But how do I get to the Emerald City?
Miss One: Count your blessings, cut your losses, and follow the Yellow Brick Road.

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Scarecrow: (sings) Come on, ease on down, ease on down the road
Pick your left foot up
Put your right one down
Come on legs, keep movin'
Just you keep on keepin'
On the road that you choose,
Don't you give up on walkin'
'Cause you gave up shoes
Ease on down, ease on down the road
Come on, ease on down, ease on down the road
Don't you carry nothin'
That might be a load
Come on
Ease on down, ease on down
Ease on down, ease on down
The road!!

<<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>>
Lion: My Mama used to always say to me, 'Fleet!'
Others: Fleet?
Lion: That's my name, Fleetwood Coupe de Ville.

<<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>>
Dorothy: Excuse me, sir, Mr Wiz?
Wiz Voice: Speak!
Dorothy:I'm not alone, sir. I'm here with my three companions and my dog, Toto.
Wiz Voice: Forget it. No riffraff.
Dorothy: Uh, they're not riffraff, sir. They're my friends, and they've traveled far to see you.
Wiz Voice: I said, forget it!
Dorothy: Then, then I'm not coming up.
Wiz Voice: What?
Dorothy: Either you see my friends, sir, or you forget it.
Wiz Voice (after a pause): Send up the riffraff.

<<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>>
Evillene: Will you give me those shoes?!
Dorothy: Yes, yes, yes.
Evillene: That's what I thought.
(Dorothy sobs)
Scarecrow: Psst! Psst! (points to sprinkler system handle)
Evillene: Hurry up with those shoes! (see's Dorothy climbing up to sprinkler handle) No! Don't touch that! No!
(Dorothy pulls handle, water cascades from ceiling sprinklers)
Evillene (screaming): No! No!
(Dorothy grabs Toto)
Dorothy: Toto!
Evillene (sinking into a puddle of goo): I'm allergic to water! It makes me melt! No! No!(Evillene screams, gasps, gurgles, and then is gone)

<<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>>
Soloists, and chorus of Winkies, singing:
Hello World, it's like a different way of livin' now

Thank you world, I always knew that we'd be free somehow

In harmony, let's show the world that we've got liberty

It's such a change for us to live so independently

Freedom, you see, has got our hearts singing so joyfully

Just look around, you owe it to yourself to check it out

Can't you feel a brand new day?

(last line repeats 22 times)

<<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>>
Dorothy:You sent us to kill Evillene, knowing we might never come back?!
The Wiz: She wouldn've killed me. She wouldn've found out I had no power, and took over Oz.
Dorothy: That's no excuse. (to her friends) Come on.
The Wiz: Please don't go. I live--I live here all alone. In terror...that someone will find out. That I'm a fraud. Please. Just stay with me for a little while and talk.

<<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>> <<*>>




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The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum. Online text of the novel.
The Wizard Of Oz -- Movie Script at wendyswizardofoz.com. "Cutting Continuity Script - Taken From Printer's Dupe - Last revised March 15, 1939"
The Wiz CC script at angelfire
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:04 am

A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)

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Special Terrifying Effects

Back in 1938 when they were doing the special effects for this film everything was practical or animation or a matte of some sort. Probably a combination of several techniques. If there was a fire on the screen there had to be an actual fire somewhere that was filmed. Or it had to be animated, and matted into the live-action shot. The make-up and costume effects for this film are still impressive. The combination of miniatures with live actors is impressive. The special effects in this film don't look like what you'd get in an Oz film today (no, I haven't seen that one yet).

There are some tall tales about some of the special effects. The people who read about them don't understand mattes and super-impositions, so the "experts" make up something plausible, or maybe the people making up these things aren't experts. Or, perhaps, they don't think you'd find the truth magical enough. But this essay is primarily about a single special effect that appears early in the movie.

Back in 1956 when I first saw the movie on TV, one scene may have affected much of my childhood. The windsock effect that was used to create the twister that takes Dorothy and Toto out of Kansas, still looks very real to this day. For years afterward I was very frightened of tornadoes, although I had never experienced an actual twister. Because I was only 4 years old when I first saw The Wizard of Oz, it seems possible that the scene in the film gave me the imaginary terrors that boiled within me whenever there was a tornado watch in my hometown. Now, that's pretty effective special effects! A tornado that never was, made a kid afraid of real tornadoes for years.
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When I was in third grade my elementary school neighborhood experienced what might have been a tornado just before lunchtime, and my teacher, poor Miss Suitte (pronounced suut), had one kid on her hands who was so fretful that he wouldn't get under the desk the way all the other kids did. Me. In my mind's eye, I could just see the large windows in our room being shattered, and glass shards being driven into us by the wind. I wanted to go out into the corridor (that's where they say you should go, nowadays). I had been reading everything I could get my hands on about tornadoes, you see. I had seen photos of broom-straws driven into tree trunks by 400 mph winds. And I wasn't about to expose my tender flesh to broom-straws or glass shards. I seem to remember begging with her to let me go into the hallway.

She made me get under my desk. That's what you did in 1960. Nuclear bomb, or tornado, you got under your desk, rolled up into a ball, closed your eyes, and died. That's what they had in mind for us. But, the windows didn't break. It might have been simple gale-force straight-line winds. No one knew. I was terrified, nonetheless.

Back to the movie.
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Flying monkeys? Yeah, in certain scenes they looked like models to me, but maybe not when I was 4. By the time I was 8, though, I could pick out what was models and what was real people pretty well, and I was fascinated by how the movie people could make tiny things seem to be real-sized. I began to try to figure out how they did these effects. The movie was on TV every year, so each Christmas season I got another chance to noodle over the effects. I wondered what other people thought (or knew) about the way in which things were done. I was 8 when I figured out that the face of the Wizard is a half-superimposition. Why someone wrote that it was a film projected into a cloud of smoke, I don't know. Perhaps it was, but it fades in and out, and doesn't seem to ever take on the shape of the cloud of steam in the Wizard's throne room. In other words, when the smoky substrate is thin in places, the Wizard's face doesn't disappear there. If the story about being projected onto a cloud of smoke were true--the face would have "holes" in it when there were holes in the cloud. Looks to me like it was a rear-projection plate combined with the things that appear to be organ pipes. An inset of sorts.

As for the tornado, I knew about rear-projection, so the best I could figure was that the people who made the film had filmed a real tornado, and projected it behind the actors. Nothing else I thought of seemed quite right, so I was pretty sure that's what they had done.

Over the years I read as much about film effects as I did about tornadoes. I lost my fear of the storms, but never did get over my fascination with how you can make things look fairly real on the screen when they are tiny, or fake, or drawn. I came to understand flashpots, fog machines, limb prosthetics, asbestos shields, wire work, miniatures, squibs, dirt blasters, glass mattes, super-impositions, traveling mattes and so forth.
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But I never figured out that the body of the twister was a windsock suspended from the sound stage ceiling. I learned that from the pamphlet inside the 1998 DVD release. And I never figured out that the falling house that crushes the Wicked of the East, was dropped upside down onto a painting of clouds on the studio floor, then reverse-printed (same source). The house, well, that's because I never gave it much thought. The twister, it's because all the explanations that I could think of were not correct! None of them included a tube of fabric with wind blowing through it. And that effect is so well-done that it made me unrealistically afraid of tornadoes in real life. It moves in such a realistic and frighteningly beautiful way. (Poor Miss Suitte!)



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How they created the tornado in the Wizard of Oz (video) at americablog
The Wizard of Oz Used Some Pretty Special Special Effects. oz blog
THE OZ TORNADO by Tim Marshall From StormTrack © Copyright Tim Marshall
Tornado from Wikipedia
Tornados from the website of City of Richmond, Texas
Tornado from Oz Wikia
Duck & Cover drill from Motley news
Emergency Drills from retroland
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:34 am

A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)

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Munchkins

Munchkins in the novel aren't necessarily short. They are almost certainly not little people. The Munchkins in the 1939 film are the result of going for cute. The Munchkins in the 1978 film are a bit creepy. I suppose the Singer midgets might be creepy to some people. Can't imagine to whom. But the Munchkins in The Wiz peel themselves off the walls where they have been flattened and pasted by the Wicked With of the East, Evamene. Now, they obviously weren't put there by their own volition. Still, the visually interesting shots of the creatures pulling themselves loose from the wall, reveal odd looking figures.

In that sense, being odd-looking, unusual, the two batches of Munchkins are similar. Whereas the Munchkinland of 1939 is bright, colorful and jubilant, the Munchkinland of The Wiz is literally dark (some say they can't really see them it's so dark) and scary.

Does Munchkinland set the tone for each film?
Perhaps. The Fleming Munchkinland is full of activity. The Munchkins are welcoming, and appreciative, and it is clear to Dorothy Gale that they mean her no harm. Dorothy sets off down the Yellow Brick Road, just her and Toto, and along the way they meet the Scarecrow (future ruler of Oz), the Tin Woodsman, and the Cowardly Lion. The environment doesn't stay cheerful and bright, but at times it is bright again. The film is pretty much active all the way through. But this was the era that spawned breakneck-paced screwball comedies.

Dorothy the kindergarten teacher of The Wiz lands in the derelict mall (is that what it is? looks like it) where the Munchkins (caught painting on the walls by Evamene) have been reduced to super-graphics stuck to the walls, and in doing so she breaks off part of an Oz logo that falls on the Wicked Witch of the East, crushing her. When the Munchkins approach her, it isn't clear that they don't mean her harm, even after the liberated creatures attempt to explain. Dorothy warms to them very slowly.

Even though The Wizard of Oz spins downward into darker territory, it also lightens again toward the end. I guess the destruction of a wicked witch is a happy ending. The Wiz starts off with the dark scene in Munchkinland, and remains sombre throughout. Even the most jubilant number, A Brand New Day seems to have an overcast sky. Part of this could be attributed to the way Diana Ross plays Dorothy as a depressed, directionless 20-something.

The 1939 Munchkins Led to a Comedy Film
There is a legend that the real-life little people who played the Munchkins in The Wizard of Oz were rowdy, and less moral than "regular" people. But this is probably sizism. A comedy movie came out in 1981 that features a hotel where the Singer Midgets stayed while working on the movie. Under the Rainbow was nominated for two Razzie awards, but did not take home the turkeys. The story is quite far-fetched, but makes use of the Singer Midgets panache that grew up around tales of shooting The Wizard of Oz. Unless you're desperate to see something, Under the Rainbow is not worth your time. But if you want to know more before you make up your mind, there are two links below. You'd never have had ot make the decision without the 1939 film.

It is difficult to find any technical information about the Lumet Munchkins. After clicking around for about an hour, I gave up.



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The Terror of Tiny Town Wikipedia.
The Singer Midgets Oz Wikia. "At its largest, Singer's troupe had 30 members; but by 1938 the total had dwindled to 18. Singer was hired by the studio to recruit other little people, all across the United States, to a total of 124 performers."
The Singer Midgets IMDb. "The Singer Midgets were not so named because they could sing (most of them in The Wizard of Oz had to be dubbed), but because they were organized and managed by Viennese-born impresario Leo Singer (1877-1951)."
Leo Singer. Wikipedia. "Singer was born to a prominent family in Vienna, Austria. He was reportedly inspired to form the Singer Midgets in 1912 or 1913, after he and his daughter Trudy were entertained by a troupe of little people at the Vienna Prater."
Under the Rainbow Wikipedia
Under the Rainbow (1981) IMDb 5.1/10
Munchkin Wikipedia. "Baum never explained where the term came from, but Baum researcher Brian Attebery has hypothesized that there might be a connection to the Münchner Kindl, the emblem of the Bavarian city of Munich (spelled München in German)."
The Wiz (movie) "Dorothy crashes into a huge "O" on a big Oz sign which makes it fall and crush Evamene, the Wicked Witch of the East. This awakens the Munchkins, who were pasted onto the wall as punishment by the Wicked Witch of the East. They rejoice and then Miss One (a.k.a The Good Witch of the North) arrives. Dorothy is happy also, but at the same time she is scared and wants to go home."
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:56 am

Just for bookkeeping:

Essays 7 & 10 were canceled. #8 became #7. #9 became #8. #12 became #10.

Zat clear? :D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:11 am

A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)
The Wiz (1978)
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IMDb link 4.8/10 with 8,325 votes RT-link 29% Tomatometer; 60% with 34,741 user reviews

Year: 1978 Director: Sidney Lumet -- Cast: Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, Nipsey Russell, Ted Ross, Lena Horne, Richard Pryor, name -- Length: 136 min. Color/Stereo -- estimated budget: $24,000,000 (estimated); boxoffice $13,000,000 (USA)

This film is full of cleverness and pop culture references (for the day), has the Motown sound pumping in every song, although most all the songs are immemorable. Fabulous stylization is all over the place. There are very well-known faces throughout the movie, big names of the time. The visuals are especially satisfying on the Blu-ray release. But the overall effect is that kind of flatness that you just can't explain. It has all the right ingredients, but it doesn't turn out the way the recipe suggests.

Toto runs out of the apartment through an open kitchen door, and flees into a snowstorm. Dorothy follows. A much older Dorothy.

Diana Ross. She was famous, she was a good singer, but at 33 she was too old to play Dorothy. And she was apparently too powerful to be told, "No, thanks. We'll find a capable unknown young woman to play the part." I understand that there was also a lot of controversy surrounding some of the other cast members, and that set The Wiz up to be another Oz failure at the BO.

The movie has several problems, including that Dorothy is supposed to be a 24-year old kindergarten teacher. Her "problem" is migrated to spending too much time in her insular household and job. Whereas 1939 Dorothy learned the homespun lesson that what you want is where you are, and adventures are not necessary in order to find your heart's desire, the 1978 lesson for Dorothy is that you need to get out and roam. It's Country life philosophy vs City life philosophy, it seems.

At the same time the others are told that they don't need magical help from the Wiz. The things they seek were in them all the time. And Dorothy could have gone home at any time, if only she had known. Honestly, in all the Oz versions that "within you all the time" part makes the least sense when you pluck it out of the story and look at it. But within the story it seems to make sense.
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Perhaps the story is flattened by beginning in an urban landscape and never leaving it. More than one review notes that the film hews closer to L. Frank Baum's original story than the 1939 version does. But the novel shares one aspect with the 1939 film that The Wiz vacates: there are stretches of the journey that take Dorothy and friends through dangerous landscapes, where the remoteness is part of the danger. Perhaps this film is rife with social commentary that I don't get, since I've never lived in an urban ghetto environment.


Here are some aspects of the film and whether I like them or don't care for them:

Like: The creature faces that Stan Winston did for this film are cool. There are certain stylistic weirdnesses (for instance, costume designer Tony Walton made the lion's fur like a suit, including pants pockets, and stack heels) to all of the costumes. The Munchkins, Winkies, and other choruses of critters are quirky. The stylization of the flying monkeys, which are now disfigured critters on motorbikes with twin stacks of exhaust pipes that resemble wings, is very clever. In fact there is a lot of cleverness in the design of the film.

Like: There is a lot of eye candy in this movie. But there is also a lot of trying too hard. Most of the time the eye candy wins out, so this is in the like listing. But once in a while the trying too hard part wins out, and that's sad.

Like: For the last two numbers of the film it seems that Diana Ross is singing live (and so is Lena Horne) to a pre-recorded music track. There are no edits during the Believe in Yourself and Home numbers while Ross and Horne are singing. I either like that they did it that way, or that it appears to have been done that way. If it's the latter, there is some damn fine lip-syncing going on there.
Don't Like: It's too long. It overstays its welcome (the 1939 film also does this, but not as tiresomely). And it loses whatever small amount of steam it has built up after Evillene is done in. The last part of the film that has any spine to it is A Brand New Day.
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Don't Like: The songs are mostly forgettable. That's a bad thing for a musical, isn't it? Shouldn't the songs stay in your brain after you leave the theater or pop the video disc out of the player? Otherwise, the musicality is reduced to instantaneous and transient toe-tapping (which The Wiz has in abundance) and once the entertainment of the song is over, so is the memory of the song. Much classical music is like that. The lesser kind.

Don't Like: Dorothy seems drugged, sick or depressed throughout the run of the film, except during A Brand New Day. Even when she gets to go home she is weepy. Wouldn't she be happy?

Don't Like: Although the dance numbers are frenetic and in some ways inventive, they are also replications of one another for the most part. Whereas music can move the story forward, dances in musicals are like battle scenes in war movies. They are necessary scenes, but they do nothing to advance the story. If you are a dancer you can probably appreciate the work of the Louis Johnson Dance Theater better than I can.

Don't Like: Despite the bounciness of much of the music, the entire enterprise never manages to build up any steam. It comes across ultimately as flat and artificial, even in the midst of cleverness and beautiful set design. It's as if we are watching take #100 of every scene, and the performers are just sooo tired that they are reduced to going through the motions and reciting lines.
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On balance the film is artistically pretty, but lacks substance, even with grand components. To me, the only artistic triumph comes in the Everybody Celebrate/A Brand New Day sequence, which is wonderful. That sequence exceeds the sum of its parts. The whole film is less than the sum of its parts, is about all I can say. I've seen it twice, and that's plenty for me. It isn't horrible, but it is one of those films that gives you the idea that it could have been much more than it became.



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THE WIZ 1978 from DREAMS ARE WHAT LE CINEMA IS FOR...Tuesday, July 31, 2012. "The Wiz was launched with considerable fanfare and star-power, but also amid a flurry of boxoffice-crippling negative publicity."
Bet You Didn’t Know: Secrets Behind The Making Of “The Wiz” from madamenoir blog. October 1, 2012 - By Veronica Wells "Though folks didn’t review it so favorably when it first came out in 1978, as the years went by it became a cult classic and by 2005 critics called it delightful even though they found it to be a mess at times."
The Wiz (movie) at Oz Wikia
The Wiz (film) Wikipedia
The Wiz Broadway play, from Wikipedia
Sidney Lumet Wikipedia
Facts about "The Wiz"Soulful Detroit BB, July 2007.
The Wiz Roger Ebert, October 24, 1978
Quick & Dirty: Guess Who Ruined The Wiz? from Big Media Valdalism By Odienator. Posted Friday, February 22, 2008.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:41 pm

A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)
The Wizard of Oz (1939)
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IMDb link 8.1/10 with 195,045 votes -- RT-link 99% Tomatometer; 83% with 864,647 user ratings

Year: 1939 Director: Victor Fleming -- Cast: Judy Garland, Frank Morgan, Ray Bolger, Bert Lahr, Jack Haley, Margaret Hamilton, The Singer Midgets -- Length: 102 min. Color/Mono -- estimated budget: $2.7 million

This film came out just before WWII. World War Two stomped on the broken shards of the world left after the First World War broke the world. The innocence that you might find in this film is all phony. It's placed there to assuage the public's distaste for what was going on elsewhere in the world, and for the lingering Great Depression. You can tell that things are bleak in real life when the film has to strain at joy in order to combat the undercurrent of dark dismal human failure that washes inside it.

Is the novel on which the film is based nothing but clever happy goofy nothingness? No, there is some darkness there (china people who fall and break their limbs off, the flying monkey mob, and the wicked witch of the West). But there is no message other than the message to kids to try things and enjoy life (a message subverted in this film to: you'll only find happiness where you already are). But keep in mind that most of the viewers of this movie were impoverished. Very poor people who wanted to laugh and wanted someone to tell them that the world would get better. Well, it did, but only after it got worse for a while.

Remember that this kid's film would be followed by a spate of films noirs that would last until the 1960s. That's the zeitgeist of the 40s and 50s. Disney would try to woo the kids of America to his happy go lucky style, but even the Disney films of the post-war period have a dark undertone from time to time (remember the 1953 Peter Pan film that we looked at a year ago!). The Wizard of Oz begins with Dorothy getting separated from her family. She leaves home because her beloved dog, Toto, jumps out of Elvira Gulch's bicycle basket, and comes back home. Elvira Gulch is not in the novel. The political message about the rich running roughshod over the poor is not in the novel (so, either that theme is timeless, or by sad coincidence it fits our era again). And the woman who is bullying Dot and Toto, becomes the Wicked Witch of the West in the film's main sequence.
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Dark messages, social messages, that are not in the original story populate this marginally-for-kids film. Maybe she doesn't scare 21st century kidlets, but at the test screenings back in '38 or '39 the Witch of the West did scare tots. When my younger brother was pre-school age, he was scared by the flying monkeys, and I remember one of his nephews also being wary of them, looking away when they would appear on screen. This writer loved the eerie chill of seeing the smoke message in the sky above the Emerald City, "Surrender Dorothy," in early viewings. Every year it would give me goosebumps. I knew it would do no good to hope that they would not turn Dot over to the Wickie, but that was because I'd caught on that movies are always the same, every time you watch them. So, despite its reputation as being all sweetness and light, it isn't. All the better, I say.

Here are some aspects of the film and whether I like them or don't care for them:

Don't Like: It's a musical. 'Nuff said. Isn't it?
Like: This musical actually has some memorable and cleverly-mounted numbers. Also, the songs more or less feather into the story, and usually manage not to just repeat in song what has been announced by dialog immediately before the song begins. So that's a plus. I think this is on the YTMN list of approved musicals. I can't find the list.

Don't Like: The saccharin nature of the story is forced. Much more than in other films of the same era. Gone with the Wind doesn't even try to be ebullient. All the songs are chipper, except the most beloved song of all movies ever, Over the Rainbow. While the words are hopeful, the melody is beautifully mournful. The sweetness could have been even worse. Writer Noel Langley thought he was done, but after two other writers rewrote his script, he got that script revision back to cut out wordiness. Oz Wikia reports that he found things worse than too many words.
Langley disliked the Ryerson/Woolf version; he found it "so cutesy and oozy that I could have vomited."
Did he dial it back far enough? Maybe not.
Like: The sweetness and light is pretty well-balanced against the powers of the Wicked Witch of the West, and the fascistic nature of the Emerald City of Oz. Good seems to triumph in the end, and not by the hair of a chinny chin chin, but in due time. And more or less due to an accident. That's from the novel. Wickie West must have smelt terrible, having never bathed. Maybe the Oh-wee-oh guys sent her out for a monthly dry-cleaning.
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Like: The Wizard is a puffy old faker, and his victims just go along with him, pretending to believe that they've gotten brains, courage, a heart, and back home. But do they really? Maybe they never left home. Maybe they never existed in the first place. The novel doesn't offer this tantalizing (and now-hackneyed) plot hole way out.
Don't Like: Overall I don't like that the ending is open and you can decide that everything happened during Dorothy's conked-out dream. I know that's what I said is one of the good features of the film, but...I wish her adventure was real. (Silly.)

Like: There are no large-scale Busby Berkley type dance numbers. You know, the kind that tend to ruin 1930s musicals for anyone who doesn't care for the numbers. Only because they show up so often in 1930s musicals. (I admire the artistry of what Berkley and his millions of dancers did, I just never see it fitting into the story that is supposed to be ongoing at the time.) But the producers of The Wizard of Oz managed to reign in their desire (if any) to have the Munchkins do a can-can line or outsized sequential sequined hoop passing numbers or whatever. They skip along en masse, but that's just cute. And it seems to be something that the Munchkins would do. The denizens of the Emerald City also aren't asked to do much in the way of chorus dancing. And that's fine by me.

Like: I love knowing that Louis B. Mayer decided to excise the song Over the Rainbow from the movie after test screenings. There used to be a reprise in the Witch's castle, which is long lost. But the barnyard removal was nixed by Arthur Freed, and the song was replaced. Good thing. It's ranked as the most bestest song of any film evarrr. (Not that I agree, but some ritzy voter people decided that. And it's a pretty darn good song. Great to sing in the shower.) It even sounds good when sung off-key. (No, it doesn't. I just made that up to be, like, rebellious.)

Don't Like: Can't remember seeing a single black face or Asian face in the entire film. Was the 100% African-American cast of The Wiz a dig at that? Can't know.

I found the list!
YTMN/Gort wrote:The only musicals I like:
Oliver!
The Umbrellas of Cherbourg
Singin’ in the Rain
Popeye
The Music Man
The Fiddler on the Roof
The Wizard of Oz
Dr Horrible’s Sing-along Blog
Les Miserables
I added that last one just this year. Notice that there are two films in the list that have nearly zero spoken dialog. Everything is sung. That's like opera -- where if you don't sing about it, it doesn't exist.
The Wizard of Oz is fluid going in and out of songs. That's what makes it a likable musical film in my world. But, I've seen this movie about a dozen times since I was 4 years old, and don't imagine I'll ever want to see it again.



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The Wizard of Oz (1939) at Oz Wikia. "For The Wizard of Oz, care was taken so that the actors in heavy costume and makeup remained recognizable." "The movie is based on The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum and W. W. Denslow, though it departs a great deal from the source material."
The Wizard of Oz (1939 film) at Wikipedia
Victor Fleming at Wikipedia
L. Frank Baum at Wikipedia
The Wizard of Oz (1902 musical) at Wikipedia "Probably the biggest influence on the 1939 MGM film, aside from making the story into a musical (but not using the score created for the stage version), is the field of poppies sequence that ended Act I."
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
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And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:47 pm

My father, had he lived, would have been 85 years old today.

He was the man who bought the TV set on which I first saw the 1939 Wizard of Oz film. Before that day (November 3, 1956) I had never heard of the Wizard, the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodsman, the Cowardly Lion, the Yellow Brick Road, Munchkins, Glinda, the Wicked Witch of the East or West, or Oz.

After that I could never forget them.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:40 pm

A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)

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Didn't Spoil the Broth

When the first DVD release of the 1939 film came out I was eager to read the trivia sheet. On the 7th page there is "Oz by the Numbers" and when you get down to "4" it says "Total number of directors who worked on the film." I had to know more. IMDb told me
The film had five different directors. Richard Thorpe shot several weeks of material, none of which appears in the final film. The studio found his work unsatisfactory and appointed George Cukor temporarily. Cukor did not actually film any scenes; he merely modified Judy Garland's and Ray Bolger's makeup. Victor Fleming took over from him and filmed the bulk of the movie, until he was assigned to Gone with the Wind. King Vidor filmed the remaining sequences, mainly the black and white parts of the film set in Kansas (the storm and "Over the Rainbow".) Producer Mervyn LeRoy also directed some transitional scenes.
Now we're up to five directors. Victor Fleming is the only one who receives screen credit. In the banner it's (l to r) Thorpe, Cukor, Fleming, and Vidor. (On the extreme right is Buddy Ebsen as the Tin Woodsman before he developed skin allergies and had to withdraw.)

There were 10 (or 14) writers who worked on the screen play, depending on which source you choose to believe. Oh, wait, IMDb has a list of 20 writers.

It seems that the studio didn't really expect a hit with this movie. The film ran greatly over budget but, according to IMDb figures, it did not lose money when released. It grossed $300,000.00 more in its initial run than it cost (but other sources disagree and say it lost money). Cost $2.7 million, initial gross $3 million.
Oz Wiki wrote:The Wizard of Oz was a major hit with audiences; the film earned $3,017,00 for MGM during its initial exhibition. This, however, was not enough to equal the production costs plus the million dollars spent on distribution and advertising. The film did not make a profit until it was re-released, ten years after its original showing; in 1949 it earned another $1,500,000 at the box office.
It was nominated for 6 Oscars, and won two...for music. The film became a true hit when it was shown on television in 1956, and again in 1959. It's interesting to note that most of its awards have been won since Y2K.



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Victor Fleming from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Richard Thorpe from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
George Cukor from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
King Vidor from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mervyn LeRoy from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Wizard of Oz from Box Office Mojo
The Wizard of Oz (1939) from Oz Wikia
The Wizard of Oz (1939) Awards at IMDb
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:04 pm

All reviews are up. All essay are up. Only the boring tech posts left (Script, Director, DP, Editor, Production Crew), and probably no one but me would notice if I skipped them!
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:45 pm

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A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)
The Writers



1925 The Wizard of Oz
The scenario for the 1925 film came in part from the pen of director/star Larry Semon. But there are other credited writers: L. Frank Baum for story. L. Frank Baum Jr (whose real name was Frank Joslyn Baum) for the adaptation. Additional adaptation credits are given to Leon Lee and Larry Semon. Leon Lee also gets credit for writing the titles (probably inter-titles rather than production credits titles). Semon's bio will be included in the Director tech post.

Frank Joselyn Baum has only two screen writing credits. He adapted this film, and in 1933 is credited as Col. Frank Baum on a short with the same title. He is the man who sold the rights to The Wizard of Oz to MGM in 1937, two years before the completed film debuted. He was born in 1883 and died 2 days before his 75th birthday on December 2, 1958. Apparently the best business decision he ever made was to sell the rights to his father's first novel to Samuel Goldwyn in 1934. But he didn't get the money for it. Perhaps that's why he sold the rights to MGM in 1937.

Leon Lee has 7 screen writing credits ranging from 1924 to 1932. He wrote mostly inter-titles. His adaptation credit for the 1925 Wizard film is the only one in that category. And he is credited for the screenplay in 1932 for Arm of the Law. In the same year he got a general writing credit for The Reckoning. Lee lived to be 67 years old, typing -30- on his life story in 1963.

1939 The Wizard of Oz
IMDb has a list of 20 writers, 16 of whom are uncredited, who are supposed to have had input on the script for the 1939 film of L. Frank Baum's tale. We have no way to verify this, of course. L. Frank Baum gets a credit for the story. There are three credited screenplay writers, and apparently the three were not all in the same location during development of the screenplay. Noel Langley has the adaptation credit, because he did the first complete draft of a screenplay. But, sources say that after he thought it was all completed Langley's finished script was given to Florence Ryerson and Edgar Woolf to re-write. And they did a complete re-write, but MGM gave the script back to Langley in order to have their wordiness reduced. Langley didn't like the saccharine additions, and reduced that aspect, too. So, I have no idea who really put what into the script. Here are some biographical details about each of the three writers.

Noel Langley was not even 28 years old when he adapted Baum's novel for the screen. Perhaps that's why the MGM bigwigs passed his screenplay along to some older writers for touchup. Of his 45 writer credits, 6 have been garnered since his death in 1980. These all relate to the characters he created for The Wizard of Oz. Langley's screenwriting career got underway in 1935 when he was only 24 years old. The film we're focusing on was his 6th writing credit. Langley's career ranged from classics to film noir. For example, his screenplays enabled the making of They Made me a Fugitive (1947), A Christmas Carol (1951), Tom Brown's Schooldays (1951), and Ivanhoe (1952). The Oz screenplay remains his most famous work. Langley was born in Durban, South Africa, and died in California, 68 years later.

Florence Ryerson got her first screen writing credit the year Langley turned 9. She was born in 1892, so her career was well-established by 1938. She had worked in the primarily visual medium of silent films until The Canary Murder Case (1929). She garnered 52 writing credits during her lifetime, and has earned another two since, both based on characters she helped create for the 1939 Oz film.

Edgar Allen Woolf was the oldest of the three screenplay writers (who got credit). His film writing didn't begin until 1914, but by then he was 33 years old. His career ended abruptly when, in 1943 at age 62, he tripped over his dog's leash and tumbled down a long flight of stairs. So, after the 1939 film he worked on only two other films. To make it a complete set, Woolf has also garnered 4 screen writing credits since he died, but these are not all related to Oz. Three of them are, though. Ryerson and Woolf collaborated on several scripts throughout their careers.


1978 The Wiz
This film began as a stage play that closely follows the original Baum novel (at least more closely than most adaptations, including Baum's own 1902 stage play). The Wiz began as a musical, and it began as an all-black-cast concept. The credits for writing on this version are Baum, for the novel, William F. Brown for the book of the musical play, and Joel Schumacher for the screenplay.

William Brown's only writing credit is for this film, but he has Executive Producer credits on 6 other films.

Joel Schumacher continues to work as a writer and director. For example he is known as the director of Batman Forever (1995) and reviled as the director of Batman and Robin (1997). If you look at Schumacher's list of films directed you'll see both hits and misses. For writing credits (11 total) his first came about in 1974, while his most recent was in 2012. The screenplay for The Wiz was his fourth writing credit. Schumacher is also active in several other areas of film production.



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Frank Joslyn Baum from Oz Wikia
Noel Langley from Oz Wikia
Florence Ryerson from Oz Wikia
Edgar Woolf from Oz Wikia
Theatre: The Wiz tvtropes
The Wiz (stage) from Oz Wikia
The Wizard of Oz (1925) from Oz Wikia
The Wizard of Oz (1939) from Oz Wikia
The Wiz (movie) from Oz Wikia
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:45 am

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A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)
At the Helm



1925 The Wizard of Oz
Larry Semon only lived to be 39 years old. Or did he...? He allegedly died penniless although he made a lot of money as a film comedian. An example is his reported salary on Lightning Love (1923) of $5,000.00 per week. He also lost a lot of money on The Wizard of Oz, which had promise, but the final version was pretty ordinary fare for the day. Nothing spectacular. The IMDb biography has a report that Semon is believed by some to have evaded his creditors by faking his own death. Semon directed 129 films between 1915 and 1928, mostly 2-reelers. He acted in 123 films between 1916 and 1928. He was often the writer for these shorts (121 credits there). But his career was already on the decline when he hocked the farm to buy the rights to L. Frank Baum's masterpiece, and overspent on its production. There were no DVD sales on those days to make up for the shortfall at the box office.


1939 The Wizard of Oz
There is an essay about the number directors this picture had during its production schedule. Victor Fleming is the credited director, and he was actually in the folding chair for most of the shoot schedule. People make a great deal about how many wonderful films were released in 1939. But I've never read anyone praising Fleming for directing two of them: The Wizard of Oz, and Gone With the Wind. In 1916 Victor Fleming left the career of stunt driver and began to be a cinematographer. But by 1919 after 16 films he became a director. His last silent film was The Rough Riders, released in 1927. In 1928 he directed two sound films. Fleming directed Treasure Island (1934) and Captains Courageous (1937) Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (1941) among his 50 director credits. He died in 1949 after directing Ingrid Bergman as Joan of Arc (1948). The IMDb bio has some interesting background information on what Fleming did before he directed films. He did several different jobs before he got into pictures. Interestingly, on his way to the esteemed deck chair Fleming reputedly was the uncredited 2d assistant director on the Babylon story segment of Intolerance: Love's Struggle Throughout the Ages (1916). Victor Fleming took home an Oscar for Best Picture from the 1940 Academy Awards for Gone With the Wind. He was nominated for Palme d'Or for The Wizard of Oz at the 1939 Cannes Film Festival.


1978 The Wiz
Sidney Lumet has 72 director credits, earned between 1952 and 2007. His first theatrical feature was Twelve Angry Men (1957). He is known for directing Serpico (1973), and then 5 in a row: Murder on the Orient Express (1974), Dog Day Afternoon (1975), Network (1976), Equus (1977), and then the one that broke his winning streak, The Wiz (1978). If you read the list of all 72 titles, though, you'll see many famous titles, and probably some you've seen as a film buff. He even had an influence on films (such as Scarface (1983) that he did not direct or produce. Read the full bio on IMDb for a barrage of interesting details. Don't ignore his awards page, although you won't see The Wiz listed there. With his track record many nowadays wonder at the lackluster shot selection in certain stretches of The Wiz. I just figure it's a simple reason: not every day is a good day for anyone. Also, the miscast Diana Ross was forced upon him by the producer of the movie. Some historical analysts claim that's the real reason the film nose-dived. It had everything else going for it. Some say the film had many other problems. I have yet to read anyone's opinion that The Wiz tanked due to Lumet's direction. Perhaps that's because I haven't read everything written about the movie.



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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
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And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:15 am

I admit to a form of laziness in using the generic tech post banners that I created last year. Some of them have already been used. This project includes a 1925 film, so it is unlikely that I can find photos of everyone I'd like to show from that one. Even 1939 represents a potential difficulty in finding head shots or set shots featuring the various tech folks in the middle film..

And I want to complete this by the 25th if possible. Certainly by the 27th.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:16 am

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A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)
Behind the Lens



1925 The Wizard of Oz
Frank B. Good, Hans F. Koenekamp, and Leonard Smith are credited with photography on this project.

Frank Good began building his list of 99 cinematography credits in 1916 on Let Katie Do It. Good was the photographer for classics, Westerns, and what would later be called genre films through 1947. His first sound project came out in 1930: Golden Dawn, a comedy musical. This was a 2-strip Technicolor production, although IMDb reports that the color version is lost, and only B&W prints remain. Of the five cinematographers featured among these three movies, Good is the only one to receive no Oscar nominations. Good was born in 1884 in Ohio, and died at 54 in California. So, he did alright for himself.

Hans Koenekamp was the son of German immigrants, who settled in Dennison, Iowa. He was born in December 1891 on what would later become my younger son's birthday. Koenekamp lived until 1992, three months short of his 101st birthday. He got started as a projectionist, then began to work as a cinematographer at the Mack Sennett Keystone Studios in 1913. When films got sound, he left the back of the camera and moved around in front of the lens to do special effects. He had shot 32 movies by that time, and would remain in the business doing special effects for another 67 films between 1935 and 1957. His first SFX gig was on A Midsummer Night's Dream (1935). His second was on a Joe E. Brown comedy (which I once caught on TCM) Earthworm Tractors (1936). Take a look at his SFX filmography; there are titles there that any student of film would recognize. Koenekamp received an Oscar nom for special effects in 1944.

Leonard Smith was President of the American Society of Cinematographers (ASC) from 1943-1947 (IMDb). He won one shared Oscar in 1947 for work on The Yearling (1946), his last film. He was nominated in three prior years. He lensed Elizabeth Taylor in National Velvet (1944). He was only 53 years old when he died in 1947, a few months after the Academy Awards. There are 76 titles in his filmography beginning in 1915 when he was a 21-year old man. He continued to work setting lights and cameras for the rest of his life.


1939 The Wizard of Oz
Harold Rosson photographed The Wizard of Oz in Technicolor. The man was born in 1895, and lived for 93 years. Beginning in 1915 he was the cinematographer on 151 projects. Tarzan the Ape Man (1932) looks the way it does because of his photography. So do Singin in the Rain (1951) and The Bad Seed (1956). His last stint as Director of Photography was on the 1966 John Wayne film El Dorado. His filmography looks slightly unusual for a DP living in the 1960s, due to its lack of TV credits. Rosson was nominated six times for a Best Cinematography Oscar. He won (along with W. Howard Greene) for his work on The Garden of Allah (1936). This makes him a winner first time out of the gate, and an also-ran five other times. One of the nominations was for his 1939 Wizard of Oz work.


1978 The Wiz
Oswald Morris received three nominations for a Best Cinematography Academy Award during his career. He was nominated for Oliver! (1968) and The Wiz (1978) but actually took home an Oscar for his work on Fiddler on the Roof (1972). As I looked through the list of 57 Cinematographer credits I saw many titles that I have seen or at least read about over the years. From 1932 until 1949 Morris was clapper boy, camera loader, assistant cameraman on 45 titles. From 1950 until 1982 he was the lighting photographer for those 57 titles that I scrolled through. His last film credit is for The Dark Crystal (1982). Mr. Morris is still living.


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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
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If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:18 am

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A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)
In the Cutting Room



1925 The Wizard of Oz
Sam Zimbalist has editorial credit for the Semon outing. He was born on what would later become my birthday, and still later Jedi's, in 1904. He only lived to be 54. At age 16 he became a film cutter at Metro Studios. Later he moved into the job of film editor. Zimbalist edited only 16 films before he became a film producer. The Wizard of Oz was the first of the 16 films. His first job as producer was to get Tarzan Escapes (1936) on the screen. His last job as producer was the 1959 Ben-Hur film. It won Best Picture, but Zimbalist had died in November 1958, and the award was accepted by his widow. It was his 25th job as Producer. Zimbalist had been nominated in 1952 as the producer of Quo Vadis (1951). Although Zimbalist was born in New York City, he was in Rome, Lazio, Italy at the time of his death, on site during the shooting of Ben-Hur.

Zimbalist was working on The Wizard of Oz in a time when cuts of shorter duration could be used, and sometimes this film has a sprightly pace. As always, the inter-titles are on the screen for too long, and their presence disrupts the flow of the film for a modern viewer. But Zimbalist kept the inter-titles to a minimum, and seems to leave them up for a few seconds less than his contemporaries. It is probably due to the way in which Semon had the film shot, or perhaps there was executive meddling, but certain segments of the movie, especially when there is parallel action between Kansas and Oz, become confusing. But the slapstick sections are well-cut, and nothing detracts from the guttural humor of those moments.


1939 The Wizard of Oz
Blanche Sewell edited 62 films between 1925 and 1949. Take Me Out to the Ball Game (1949) was the last. She died that year at age 50. IMDb says she never worked for any studio other than MGM. Sewell's name may be familiar to anyone who has seen Queen Christina, or the Gene Kelly film The Pirate. Her editing jobs crossed genre lines, although she did a lot of musicals.

The style of editing in the 1939 film is straightforward, but Sewell is not afraid to use shots that are oddly framed. There are very few moments in her version of the film where a viewer cannot tell what is going on. She shows off Harold Rosson's beautiful Technicolor photography and Cedric Gibbons' lavish sets to the extent that it is possible. I have not found which director, if any, gave shape to the editorial process. Was the director present during editing producer/director Mervyn Leroy who oversaw shooting the sepia-tone opening and closing segments of the film? By the post-production phase Victor Fleming was already working on Gone With the Wind.

The overall effect of this film may be an example of the studio system, rather than a system of auteurs. People other than a few directors (A. Hitchcock comes to mind) could take over any studio property during production, or post-production and move it along toward completion. Apparently no one has found the notes that would elucidate these questions of editorial oversight. Perhaps Blanch Sewell was so well-trusted that she cut the film and showed it to the executives without a "director" being present! How could we know? Unless someone happens across some archives that detail the post-production of the film, we may never know for sure.



1978 The Wiz
If I were to make a list of which films edited by Dede Allen were not big deal movies, it would be a shorter list. By the time she got her fifth editorial project, The Hustler (1961) she had hit the big time, and she remained there for the rest of her career. She edited her 32nd project in 2008, two years before her death at 86. She received three nominations for Academy Awards in 1976 (for Dog Day Afternoon), 1982 (for Reds) and 2001 (for Wonder Boys). Dog Day Afternoon (1975) won her a 1976 Best Film Editing BAFTA.

Because her skill is quite clear, the alarming number of wide shots that are held for quite a long duration in The Wiz must have been someone else's doing. She would have made the whole thing look more interesting if it were in her power, I think. The footage she needed must simply not have existed.



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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:05 pm

Image
Image
A Comparison of The Wizard of Oz (1925) & The Wizard of Oz (1939) & The Wiz (1978)
Design and Such

For this round of Production Crew notes I wanted to seek out a few obscure and weird credits for each of these films, and research what they mean, if the meaning isn't clear in the job title.


1925 The Wizard of Oz
There weren't a lot of on screen credits back in the 1920s. Nowadays we credit the person who assists the star, and the catering staff. But not in 1925.
William Hauber ... stunt double: Larry Semon & Dorothy Dwan (uncredited)
Frederick Ko Vert ... (uncredited) This fellow also plays and dances the part of Phantom of the Basket, about whom a character says on an inter-title, "That's a lot of applesauce." This probably meant something covert back in 1925 but it isn't clear what it means almost a century later. We could take a stab at it, but we might be wrong.
Larry Semon ... costumes: Tin Man and Scare Crow (uncredited) Star, writer, director, producer...and wardrobe guy. Why, it's like an indie film! Wait, it was an indie film.


1939 The Wizard of Oz
Natalie Kalmus ... Technicolor color director. She has 364 credits as technicolor color director. The first came in 1933 for Mystery of the Wax Museum. The last was in 1950 for The Fighting Pimpernel. This looked suspect to me, so I read the IMDb bio page, and learned what I suspected:
As wife of the inventor of the Technicolor process Herbert T. Kalmus, Natalie was always made a part of the crew for early Technicolor movies. This was so that they could do their best to maintain control of what was filmed using Technicolor.
Jim Fawcett ... stand-in: Mr. Lahr (uncredited)
Pat Moran ... stand-in: Mr. Lahr (uncredited)
Bobbie Koshay ... double: Ms. Garland (uncredited)
Jean Kilgore ... dance stand-in: Judy Garland (uncredited)
Busby Berkeley ... choreographer: scarecrow's dance (deleted from final print) (uncredited) Ha ha! They had to leave him on the cutting room floor to keep his hands off this one!
Norman Taurog ... director test scenes (uncredited) He accumulated 183 directing credits between 1920 and 1968. Obviously, he wasn't a noob when he did this job for the Oz production. In fact Taurog had already directed Boys Town (1938), and would later direct at least two Elvis Presley films. Also, he had already won Best Director for Skippy (1931) at the 1932 Academy Awards, and would be nominated for the same job on Boy's Town the year the Oz film came out. But for The Wizard of Oz he directed the test scenes.


1978 The Wiz
Lewis Gould ... dga trainee (uncredited) This Director's Guild trainee went on to direct TV, and a few films. But he must have liked second unit and assistant directing a lot more. It seems that most of his work has been as producer in some capacity on several Law & Order television series. 212 episodes across the years.
Skip Saylor ... recording engineer: horns on "Ease on Down the Road" #1 (uncredited) Now, that's specialization.
Toots Thielemans ... musician: harmonica (uncredited)
Louis Johnson ... choreographer
Carlton Johnson ... assistant choreographer also, Head Winkie
George Walker ... technician (uncredited) Now, that's generalization.



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Image
The Wiz (1978) Full Cast & Crew IMDb
The Wizard of Oz (1939) Full Cast & Crew IMDb
The Wizard of Oz (1925) Full Cast & Crew
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:02 pm

The next scheduled Quickmatch might be converted to a FlasHmatch. If it's a Quickmatch I'll start posting about The Philadelphia Story/High Society around 4 Jan 2014. If it's a FlasHmatch it won't appear until I get it done, which should be by mid Jan 2014.

I'm looking forward to the break from watching and posting over the next month, but I'm a little worried about losing readers. So I'll likely keep some trash up in here over that time, just nothing that requires research or graphics (much).

There are two quickies right in a row. Rollerball follows Phili/High. I'll have to buy the Rollerball discs because Netflix and unavailability.

Then we will flee in terror from The Blob, after which we will scale the heights with King Kong. But I won't start pounding my chest in victory quite yet.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:09 pm

Collaborative Rematch, Anyone?

On the two occasions it has happened, it has been fun to post an essay written by another Corrie. Now that The WIZ Multimatch is wrapped up, and there is a gap until next year, I thought I'd issue a challenge of sorts/invitation to the readers of this thread.

Even if you're a lurker who doesn't have a Corrierino account, you can participate (but you'd have to make an account to do so).

I'm wondering if one, or maybe two other posters on this site would like to team up with Gort/YTMN to produce an entire Rematch during 2014. This could be one of the scheduled pairings already selected, or it could be a totally different set of films!

It would take time to work this out and negotiate times and what each would do, so it's not something that would start really soon (unless you need it to, but not before February 2014).

As for the time to complete the Rematch and begin posting, that's up to us to decide. The concept for the collaboration could be: a Rematch where posts are placed as they are completed. It could be a QuickMatch where everything gets posted in 14-21 days from the start (of course you work some of this up as much in advance as possible). Or, it could be a FlasHmatch, where everything is finished in advance, and then all posts are put up on the Corrierino on the same day.

No point me planning ahead any further until I know if there's interest from anyone. If you don't want to publicly declare your potential interest, send a PM.

If you aren't interested at all just don't...do anything. :D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:47 pm

YouTookMyName wrote: If you aren't interested at all just don't...do anything. :D
Gort: How people twist figures and possibilities to spin them in a certain way:

YTMN: Wow. I posted this only 35 minutes ago, and I've already gotten 7 billion non-responses!
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:15 am

Say, dreiser, if one were going to be in SF on Dec 18th would this be a good bet? It's not Noir City, which takes place at the Egyptian (EDIT, oh, in Los Angeles!). Has the Castro theater been refurbed like the Egyptian?

EDIT: So, I guess this is the theater where you go for the Noir festivals.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Das » Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:19 am

YouTookMyName wrote:Collaborative Rematch, Anyone?

On the two occasions it has happened, it has been fun to post an essay written by another Corrie. Now that The WIZ Multimatch is wrapped up, and there is a gap until next year, I thought I'd issue a challenge of sorts/invitation to the readers of this thread.

Even if you're a lurker who doesn't have a Corrierino account, you can participate (but you'd have to make an account to do so).

I'm wondering if one, or maybe two other posters on this site would like to team up with Gort/YTMN to produce an entire Rematch during 2014. This could be one of the scheduled pairings already selected, or it could be a totally different set of films!

It would take time to work this out and negotiate times and what each would do, so it's not something that would start really soon (unless you need it to, but not before February 2014).

As for the time to complete the Rematch and begin posting, that's up to us to decide. The concept for the collaboration could be: a Rematch where posts are placed as they are completed. It could be a QuickMatch where everything gets posted in 14-21 days from the start (of course you work some of this up as much in advance as possible). Or, it could be a FlasHmatch, where everything is finished in advance, and then all posts are put up on the Corrierino on the same day.

No point me planning ahead any further until I know if there's interest from anyone. If you don't want to publicly declare your potential interest, send a PM.

If you aren't interested at all just don't...do anything. :D
I WANTED TO DO THIS WHEN YOU INITIALLY HAD THE IDEA BUT DIDN'T HAVE TIME.

And my December is basically a month-long vacation sooo, I have time.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:25 am

Das wrote: I WANTED TO DO THIS WHEN YOU INITIALLY HAD THE IDEA BUT DIDN'T HAVE TIME.

And my December is basically a month-long vacation sooo, I have time.
Ah! And what would you like to do with that time in the way of Rematches? Any ideas?
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:53 pm

YouTookMyName wrote:Say, dreiser, if one were going to be in SF on Dec 18th would this be a good bet? It's not Noir City, which takes place at the Egyptian (EDIT, oh, in Los Angeles!). Has the Castro theater been refurbed like the Egyptian?

EDIT: So, I guess this is the theater where you go for the Noir festivals.
A night out celebrating a noir Christmas sounds like fun to me.

The Castro has been around since 1922. Their website says the art deco chandelier was installed in 1937 and major improvements took place in 2001.

Yes, it is the venue for Noir City every year.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:16 am

dreiser wrote:
A night out celebrating a noir Christmas sounds like fun to me.

The Castro has been around since 1922. Their website says the art deco chandelier was installed in 1937 and major improvements took place in 2001.

Yes, it is the venue for Noir City every year.
Cool. I'll see if my 26-year old son would like to enlarge his noir knowledge (not sure he has any, actually). The tickets are pretty cheap, and for a double feature 10 bucks is cheaper, still. It has been a long long time since I saw a b&w film projected from a 35mm print.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:40 am

Yo! Bumpzes.

Last night I ordered two DVD versions of Rollerball ('75 & '02), plus a book that has the original print story. That should get me primed for the Quickmatch that drei suggested between the two versions of that film. I couldn't get either from teh Frix by the time we neared the "window". By that I mean that Netflix apparently has 0 copies of the films.

Ribz thought of a battle between The Philadelphia Story ('40) and High Society ('56), and that's on the menu for early to mid January. I've autograbbed the 1940 film (last night), and the next Flix I get should be the musical. I (and you) can free-stream the 1940 film on Amazon Instant if you're a Prime subscriber. High Society costs you. Neither one streams on Netflix.

Das is researching whether to initiate a collaborative Rematch. His idea is...unique! And would fall into a category I named just a week or two before he suggested it: a Not-Quite-RemakeRematch (should that be NQ Rematch?). That term should have come to mind when I did Rear Window/Disturbia, but it was not kind enough to enter my lame brain until months and months later.

Well. I'm enjoying not having to watch any particular films, and not feeling guilty when I don't feel up to watching the ones I'm supposed to be thinking and writing about in this thread.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:15 pm

Image
This week not only did we get ice and a bit of really dry snow, but I received the materials I ordered for the Rollerball Quickmatch scheduled for late January 2014.

Yee haaa!

I've read the 16 page short story twice, and did autograbs for the two movies. But for some reason the XP machine wouldn't grab the last two chapters of the 2002 film, so I moved to the Win 7 and tried to set up for autobrabs only to discover that the latest version 2.1.1 of VLC player doesn't do autograbs according to the instructions I used to use.

Thinking of uninstalling 2.1.1 from the XP machine and going back to an earlier version that will autograb. Doing manual stills from a film is really the pits after all this time of autograbbing. [grumble]

Well, I already have the Philadelphia Story stills done. I'll need to manually grab a few from High Society so I can return the Frix DVD.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:08 am

After a week the ice is not all melted. In shadows, it is sometimes still 2 inches thick. Some picnic tables where I work have been sitting in direct sun for two days, and still have over an inch of glacial sleet and rain sitting atop them. This is unusual for the American South!

You people who live up North may be in for a dire Winter.

I'm going to post the next two Find-it posts this weekend, without links to an initial post because I want to wait until we're on page 35 to start the next stuffs going.

And there are still 7 more posts needed before we're on that page. :(

Last I heard, Das has scrubbed his initial potential Rematch, and is looking further. But, he's running out of December pretty fast. I hope he doesn't run out of time if he really wants to do this.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:12 am

In case anyone is interested in watching the films for the scheduled January 18 Quickmatch:


Image

A Comparison of Rollerball (1975) and Rollerball (2002)
Where Can I see It?


ImageImageImage
The Short Story

You can find copies of the movie-tie-in paperback that features 13 William Harrison short stories. I found no PDF of the short story available. Here is a generalized Google search link: rollerball murder books.




ImageImageImage
Video Discs

The 1975 movie is available in DVD format only at this time. The 2002 in both DVD and Blu-ray. It is difficult to find some of these discs, so only one source is listed.

1975 DVD: Amazon.

1975 & 2002 double-take DVD: Barnes & Noble. -- Amazon.

2002 DVD: Amazon.
2002 Blu-ray: Target.
2002 BRD-DVD combo: Walmart. -- Barnes & Noble.




ImageImageImage
Soundtracks

The 1975 soundtrack can be found on LP, CD, and as iTunes formatted digital downloads. The 2002 soundtrack is harder to find. Try torrents.
That oddball cover design for the 2002 CD makes it look like Jean Reno is wearing a metal British judge's wig. Just one more negative thing to stack up against that enterprise.

1975 LP: Discogs.
1975 CD: Amazon. -- CD Universe. (CD Universe points to Amazon Marketplace, see.)
1975 mp3: iTunes.

2002 CD: Amazon.




ImageImageImage
Other Sources

Netflix
-- (Neither film is currently available at Netflix. Both were a year ago when I scheduled this, but now both are in "save" status. Which means, not available!)

iTunes -- 1975. -- 2002.

Amazon Instant Watch -- 1975. -- 2002.

VuDu -- 1975. (No 2002 film on VuDu)

YouTube 1975 search at Google. -- 2002 search at Google.


ImageImageImage
Do You Like Posters?
Google search results for: "rollerball posters". -- "rollerball 2002 posters".



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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:05 am

Here's how to watch the comedies which are scheduled for a January 4, 2014 Quickmatch.


Image

A Comparison of The Philadelphia Story (1940) & High Society (1956)
I Like to Watch!


ImageImageImage
Video Discs

The movies are available only in DVD format. Neither is currently available in Blu-ray format.

1940 DVD: Amazon. -- Best Buy. -- Barnes & Noble.

1956 DVD: DeepDiscount. -- Amazon. -- Barnes & Noble.




ImageImageImage
Soundtracks

Only one of these is available according to the internet. You can find the 1956 music in two forms, though, which is good, because it's a musical.

1940 CD: None.

1956 CD: Amazon.
1956 mp3: Amazon.


ImageImageImage
Other Sources

Netflix
-- 1940 DVD. -- 1956 DVD.

iTunes -- 1940. -- 1956.

Amazon Instant Watch -- 1940. -- 1956.

YouTube -- the philadelphia story youtube. Google search results. -- high society grace kelly youtube.




ImageImageImage
Do You Like Posters?
Results from Google searches: the philadelphia story movie posters. -- high society kelly movie posters.


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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:56 am

Well, everything that goes to SF with me is packed. Boarding passes are printed out. Everything's apportioned to checked or carry-on baggage to make the security check as easy as possible. And...

For the next four days the regular things of my life can be set aside. I'm looking forward to arriving in San Francisco tomorrow afternoon. A needed break from everything.

I've even worked ahead a bit, so there isn't all that much to do in my jobs on Friday when I get back to the Hills.

Ahhhhhhhh. :)
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:43 pm

Sure do hope someone sails the True Love with the upcoming QM between Philadelphia Story and High Society. And there are still open seats on the Rollerball motorcycle toward the middle of the month. I'll rent extra cycles and buy you cineskates if you want to join us on the track.

It was cool to pick up my Noir City promotional card in person.
Image
It's actually the only Noir City promotional card I've ever had.

Watching and listening to the fellow who plays the Mighty Wurlitzer at the Castro theater reminded me of Vincent Astor and the Mighty Wurlitzer Theater Organ at The Orpheum Theater in Memphis. I shot some video for the people trying to raise money to restore that theater in the early 1980s. Vincent played the Wurlitzer for me to get some shots and record the sounds. As far as I recall they finally got the millions needed to restore everything. I hope the Castro restoration society prevails. It seems that they might lose their organ. At least the Wurlitzer in Memphis was owned by the theater owners, and other than the ravages of time was in no danger of disappearing.

The introductions from the stage of the Castro were as interesting as the films themselves. Having 86 year old director Allen Baron present was cool. His sense of humor hasn't dulled, I can tell you that. He has 38 directorial credits ranging from 1961 to 1986. These begin with the feature Blast of Silence. I think the applause and laughter (at appropriate places only) were enhanced for his benefit, really. Certain noir mainstays were greeted with a smattering of applause or appreciative laughter. My younger son was there, and I told him after the first feature that if he needed to leave we could do so. He wanted to stay and see the second film. It was a marvelous audience to view these two films with.

I kept wondering if drei was sitting somewhere in that sea of people, or if he was off on a business trip or whatnot.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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dreiser
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:46 pm

YouTookMyName wrote: I kept wondering if drei was sitting somewhere in that sea of people, or if he was off on a business trip or whatnot.
No, I didn't attend. My finances have been strained of late... I'll probably see a few films next month at the festival, but probably only over the weekends.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:20 pm

dreiser wrote:
No, I didn't attend. My finances have been strained of late... I'll probably see a few films next month at the festival, but probably only over the weekends.
Sorry to hear that.

Do you like the idea of expanding the lineup to world-wide films noirs?
I do.
EDIT: I meant to say that I fully understand the $10.00 cost being prohibitive. It doesn't seem like it should be subjectively, but objectively it can be the difference between making one critical bill or another, or being able (at this time of year) to buy a gift for one extra person who we find special. Been there.

Plus, in SF there's the cost of traveling to the venue. And that can be more than the price of teh ticket.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
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dreiser
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:10 am

Yeah, the price of a ticket is negligible for a double bill. It's the hotel, transportation, and meal costs which get to be a bit much.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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