MACBETH: What's done is done

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Shieldmaiden
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:34 pm

Category: Miscellaneous choices

Death scene

Best death scene: Bhardwaj, Nimmi (Lady Macbeth)
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Maybe I'm just being unpredictable here, because how could anything top Throne of Blood in this category, right? But, anyone who's seen this knows what I mean. So poignant and tragic!

Worst death scene: Welles, Banquo
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This is such a shocking moment in the play, and easy to get right, I'd think. But it looks like they filmed this scene on a day the actor playing Banquo wasn't even there, haha. Poor guy didn't even get a death scene.


Romance

True, romance is not a big part of the play, but several of these productions emphasize it, and some even make it the center of the plot.

Most romantic: Bhardwaj
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Love the sexual tension during this walk! It's hard not to root for these two.

Least romantic: Bevilacqua
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Some effort was definitely made along these lines, even staging a big scene in bed. And, it's definitely not easy to convey chemistry while singing an aria. But I think the picture says it all here.


Final battle

Best final battle: Polanski
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I love the way they fight till they're clearly exhausted – kicking and rolling on the ground like kids on the playground, but for higher stakes.
Worst final battle: Tarr
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This isn't even a bad scene at all. Because it's all one shot, he pulls the camera back from the fight, and lets the fog and the rest of the battle intervene. Pretty cool, right? But, then the fiddlers jump into the frame, and everything's over. While I understand the decision (I think), it feels very abrupt and weird. Maybe they actually did run out of time?
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:17 pm

traz wrote:Orson's crown looks like they give it away at burger king
Yes, exactly! I can't look at it without thinking "cardboard."
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:19 pm

Category: Secondary roles


Banquo

Best Banquo: Morrissette
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I loved Polanski's Banquo too. But I have to give the edge to Kevin Corrigan. I think the way they wrote the part is clever, too.

Worst Banquo: Bevilacqua
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This guy had one expression. Not sure it was ever the right one.


Macduff

Best Macduff: Bevilacqua
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This guy, on the other hand, brought some real heart to the role.

Worst Macduff: Welles
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And this is the man who inspired these awards! His acting talent apparently consists of the ability to raise one eyebrow.


Malcolm

Best Malcolm: Morrissette
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So, they cheated a bit by giving him something of a character arc. But it works!

Worst Malcolm: Welles
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Poor Roddy McDowall. His hairdresser hated him! When he runs up and says "What's amiss?" and someone says "You are," I totally thought they meant something else, haha.
The witches

Best witches: Casson
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OK, these witches were really scary, especially the young one who drooled and knew the future. Plus they get extra points for saying every great line.
Worst witches: Tarr
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Is it possible they forgot to cast the witches? 'Cause it really looks like they grabbed three guys off the street for this.
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by wigwam » Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:58 pm

this Welles bashing is Lady MacBeth-level delusional!
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:05 pm

wigwam wrote:this Welles bashing is Lady MacBeth-level delusional!
Haha, probably. But you have to admit that his Macduff is terrible!
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:46 pm

Category: Primary roles

Lady Macbeth

So many great performances and such varying approaches to the character, I had to set this category up a little differently.

Most sympathetic Lady Macbeth: Bhardwaj
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Sure, she ruthlessly murdered her lover, but he was about to dump her! Seriously, I loved her.

Sultriest Lady Macbeth: Wajda
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Just look at the way she strolls around the farm eating pistachios and eyeing the farm hands!

Scariest Lady Macbeth: Kurosawa
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Need I say more?


Macbeth

Best Macbeth: Kurosawa
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So many great performances here, and yet this was an easy choice. Toshirô Mifune is the most believable brave warrior by miles, and the mental conflict as he works up to the crime is beautifully played. Best death scene frenzy, too.

Worst Macbeth: Bevilacqua
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Go ahead, call me ageist. But he's simply too timid for Macbeth. Great voice, though.
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Colonel Kurz » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:58 pm

Tabu!

Also should get sultriest btw.
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:11 pm

Colonel Kurz wrote:Also should get sultriest btw.
She's incredibly sexy, but I've always thought sultry included a sort of 'bad girl' vibe. Olivera Markovic is like a Yugoslavian Carroll Baker, for example.
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:18 pm

Best production overall

Winner: Polanski
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So, Polanski's Macbeth didn't dominate these awards because its consistent excellence didn't generate the highs and lows of the other productions. But, I'm also regretting not having a best overall Lady Macbeth above, because Francesca Annis would have been it. She's the one who made me completely believe in the ruthless ambition behind the lovely mask. I almost made this a tie, by the way, since Throne of Blood is a perfect film by any measure. But, Polanski's gets the edge here because it's truly the play, the poetry. Love this one so much!

No losers in this category. Good movies, all!

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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Colonel Kurz » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:24 pm

Shieldmaiden wrote:She's incredibly sexy, but I've always thought sultry included a sort of 'bad girl' vibe. Olivera Markovic is like a Yugoslavian Carroll Baker, for example.
She's Lady Macbeth, isn't that sort of a 'bad girl' by definition? :P
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:45 pm

Haha, sure. But it's still not part of her (Tabu's) persona. Am I wrong?

I wanted to find a category for Maqbool's death, too. I love that scene! But there are so many great deaths in these films...
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Colonel Kurz » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:25 pm

Well, in the literal sense she is the wife of a mob boss and seduces his right hand man, but it's also a beautiful love story... hmmm... I think the real bottom line is that I want Tabu to win as much awards as possible.
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:58 pm

Colonel Kurz wrote:I think the real bottom line is that I want Tabu to win as much awards as possible.
I think that's it. I loved her and her movie, isn't that enough? :P
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Colonel Kurz » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:13 pm

Nope. :P

I recommend the other movie starring her by Bhardwaj based on the Bard, Haider. She's Hamlet's mom in it. It's a more flawed movie and adaptation than Maqbool, but Tabu is not one of the flaws. Neither is the play within the play:
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:08 am

Ooh, that was excellent! I'll check it out.
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Colonel Kurz » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:16 am

Next thread, HAMLET: That it should come to this?
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Ace » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:28 am

Cool. We all get to watch Lion King!
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Philosophe rouge » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:31 am

This thread is amazing, thanks for it <#
Everything around me is evaporating. My whole life, my memories, my imagination and its contents, my personality - it's all evaporating. I continuously feel that I was someone else, that I felt something else, that I thought something else. What I'm attending here is a show with another set. And the show I'm attending is myself. Fernando Pessoa

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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:36 am

Philosophe rouge wrote:This thread is amazing, thanks for it <#
Aw, I'm glad you enjoyed it. :heart:

Colonel Kurz wrote:Next thread, HAMLET: That it should come to this?
Start it! :)
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by JediMoonShyne » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:51 am

Shieldmaiden wrote:Ah, OK, I was wrong. This is clearly an attempt to recast (to Slavicize, if that's a word) Shakespeare. They can't all be at Throne of Blood-levels of genius. But, as it happens, this is mostly successful. The story's been shrunk down to a household, the motives changed to passion (in much the same way as in Maqbool, actually), and the class issues are an interesting addition. I appreciate the famous lines it manages to get in. (The amen stuck in my throat!) It consistently looks great, the thick atmosphere of boredom and sensuality at the start is like something out of Faulkner, and I love the pig's head/apparition scene. The problem is really only at the end, when it veers sharply away from the play and becomes a moralistic, soap-opera farce. At least it's still pretty!
Will admit to not reading this one as a "Slavicization" of Shakespeare initially (despite the title and all) but now you've said so, it makes sense. Actually strikes up some level of harmony between the work and the chosen context of a family drama, while at the same time still very much looking and feeling like a Polish or Yugoslavian film from the period. I'm not familiar enough with the text to have picked up all the lines that are sneaked in, but those I did notice didn't feel forced. The loving use of such references might even feel more genuine than a direct or faithful adaptation, anyway...
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:05 am

JediMoonShyne wrote:Actually strikes up some level of harmony between the work and the chosen context of a family drama...
It really does! Something I didn't mention upthread, the murder that takes the place of the Macduff family slaughter is thematically and emotionally equivalent. It's horrifying in the same way. I'm guessing that the ending that annoyed me so much was pretty much demanded by government censorship?

P.S. Thanks for finding this one for me! <3
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by JediMoonShyne » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:10 pm

So, when's the next thread? :D

Just watched this BBC one; James McAvoy as Joe Macbeth!

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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by wigwam » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:38 pm

going into the new one now!
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:33 am

wigwam wrote:going into the new one now!
Yay, can't wait for your thoughts! I should be seeing it sometime this week, hopefully.
JediMoonShyne wrote:Just watched this BBC one; James McAvoy as Joe Macbeth!
Sorry, I missed this, Jedi. I've been so distracted. I definitely remember liking that one. Of course, I wasn't as much of an expert then as I am now, haha.

I just noticed I have no representation from the 90s in the thread. Terrible! Thinking of watching this to fill the gap.
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by The Bad Guy » Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:28 am

how was it, wigwam?
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by wigwam » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:06 am

it was great as a movie but somewhat dissatisfying as an adaptation
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:38 am

wigwam wrote:it was great as a movie but somewhat dissatisfying as an adaptation
Hmm, but at least it's a good movie. I saw that you LOVED it. :)
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by The Bad Guy » Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:32 pm

It's more intended for people familiar with the source material, as I could see someone who hadn't read the play or seen other versions getting lost. Some key moments are handled unconventionally, like Lady Macbeth's 'spot' monologue which is delivered in a whisper.

As a stylish film depiction, I really enjoyed it and have trouble finding much fault with it. The performances are solid (Cotillard especially), the use of music is clever, and it's very impressive visually. It might be the second best looking film I've seen this year behind The Assassin.
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:53 am

wigwam wrote:it was great as a movie but somewhat dissatisfying as an adaptation
Saw it (finally) and yes. There are some strange choices for sure, but it has its strengths, too. I'll think about it and post more soon.
The Bad Guy wrote:It's more intended for people familiar with the source material, as I could see someone who hadn't read the play or seen other versions getting lost.
Surely that's true of all the adaptations that stick with the original language? I watched it with someone who isn't familiar with the play but who really only got confused at the point where Malcolm walks in on the murder, cries, and runs away. I mean, I was confused there, too! :P

Plus, I think casting directors overlook how similar all these actors are going to look with beards and sweat and face paint. It's Scotland, after all. Shouldn't someone have red hair?
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by wigwam » Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:20 am

Shieldmaiden wrote: Plus, I think casting directors forget how similar these characters are going to look with beards and sweat and face paint. It's Scotland, after all. Shouldn't someone have red hair?
hahaha

glad you liked it! it was so good
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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:51 am

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Another unique vision of the great play... and I'm not tired of it yet! Most of the strength here is style – haunting images, bold score, freeze frames. Fassbender is well cast as a charismatic, but not particularly intelligent Macbeth. I question some of Kurzel's decisions: why amp up the child murders? to make Lady M. sympathetic? whyy?!! But, other things it gets beautifully right: the trauma of the battlefield, the everyday eeriness of the witches, the ghostly vision of the "is this a dagger" scene, everything with Macduff. And, sure, soldiers carrying Birnam wood on fire is silly, but that orange light behind the climactic fight is fantastic. Plus, it adds to the ominous overtones of the ending, which is breathtaking!

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Re: MACBETH: What's done is done

Post by Shieldmaiden » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:51 am

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And, I did get around to watching the nineties example mentioned above – an appropriately minor one to fill a chronological gap. Like Maqbool, this is a modern crime family saga. (At least I think that's what it is. There seems to be no society surrounding them at all.) It's quite short, but they manage to get a lot of the play in, speaking quickly, no cinematic fat. Pertwee and Scacchi are both good, though Pertwee keeps his dial at the same level of anger and stress most of the film. I understand this was made for schools, so the clear, fast-moving dialogue is quite appropriate. This is not a rave, but not a pan either. (I'll add this one to the original post. Hope that won't be too confusing.)

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