The Random Thoughts Thread

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Takoma1
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Takoma1 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:57 am

Stu wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:40 am
Of course 3.7 is an above average score; technically, a 2.6 qualifies as "above average", but neither score is very good
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And regarding the score percentage break-down on LB, the 44% of users who rated the film 3 & 1/2 stars or lower also helps prove my point, because when converting the 5 star Letterboxd scale to a more standard 0-10 numerical one, by automatically doubling the scores, that figure shows that a large percentage of those users either thought it was about a flat 7 or lower, which means they either though it was barely decent, or worse,
You think that a 7 is a bad score? Look, I consider anything above a seven to be pretty good. If you look at the IMDb Top 250, the 250th film has a score of 8. So A Quiet Place has a rating that is 0.5 away from a score equal to something on the Top 250. I think that A Quiet Place is a good (but not great) movie, and I gave it a 7.

It seems like you're assuming that (1) people who score something a 3.5 or a 7 have an unimpressed or negative view of the film and that (2) those people have been impacted by nitpick/negative online culture. Isn't it possible that a lot of people out there are just like me, and thought it was a good-but-not-great film? I give a 7 or 8 to stuff that I really like and a 9 or 10 to stuff I love.

Consider the following reviews from people who gave it 3 or 3.5 stars:

This movie is just annoying at times. Buuuut it’s really good. I love the actress who plays the mom. (3 stars)
Still great but considerably less effective on a rewatch (3.5 stars, rewatch)
I saw this one in a theatre and I don’t think it would really translate to the small screen. The writing of the family interactions are underbaked but the overall conceit is so good that it makes up for it, as is the case with most sci-fi. (3 stars)
i genuinely fell off of my seat from sitting so close to the edge i love this movie (3 stars)
A really simple but clever concept that worked well. I had no idea what this was about going in and was pleasantly surprised by this. A real solid wee horror thriller with a bit of heart to it. (3.5 stars)

"Really good", "Still great", "overall conceit is so good," "I love this movie", "solid horror thriller". Do these sound like people who thought it was "barely decent or worse"? Doesn't it sound like a lot of these people really liked the movie?
it is reasonable to extrapolate from the relative popularity of the nit-picky reviews (including the joke one that many people are still taking seriously, which got over a thousand more "likes' than either of the 4 & 1/2 star ones), that nit-pick culture has had a unreasonably negative impact on both that film and cinematic discourse in general
Again, disagree. I mean, the Hoover Dam one has likes because it's short and funny. You're arguing, I think, that people go to review a film, see that others have trashed it, and then lower their own scores accordingly? But the most common score on IMDb is an 8, and the most common score on Letterboxd is a 4. So the average on both sites is just slightly lower than the most common score (7.5 vs 8, 3.7 vs 4). And when you look at the numbers, what pulls the average down slightly on both sites is not people giving it really low scores. It's a lot of people giving it "okay" scores like 6/7 or 3/3.5. I really don't see how the film is being impacted in any kind of unreasonable way.

If you want to talk unreasonable impact, look at the score breakdown for Sex and the City. A Quiet Place has 1.2% people voting a 1 star. Sex and the City has 6.4%! Both have a median score of 8. Both have about 80% of their scores as a 7 or higher. And yet the Sex and the City average is a 7.1 compared to 7.5.
"When that score pops up, how many people are potentially going to be dissuaded from seeing this movie on our opening weekend, and in release?" asks Kaplan. "It’s hard to extrapolate what damage it could do."
Do you really think that people are being dissuaded from seeing A Quiet Place? Because I feel like everyone has seen it. The downvote campaign for Kicks means that it currently has 4.6% scoring it a 1. At the time the article was written, the downvoting had taken its average score down to a 4.5--and THAT is a score that will dissuade people. I don't know anyone who would be put off by a 7.5 score on IMDb. Again, even with all of the negativity you're talking about, A Quiet Place only has 1.2% scoring a 1. Just for fun I went and looked at a pretty universally loved film, The Shawshank Redemption, and it has 1.5% voting it a 1. Again, the impact is not coming from overtly negative reviews and scores. It's coming from people who think a film is just good/okay.

I'm absolutely fine with the part of your argument that nitpick culture has put a crimp in good film discussion. I don't totally agree, but I know what you're talking about.

But the statistician in me strongly resists your assertion that nitpick reviews are somehow driving down the scores of these films and having a measurable, significant impact on them.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:00 pm

I'm so torn on this discussion. On one hand, while in rare instances I can see why a plot hole can pose a substantial problem in the overall appreciation of a film, my immediate response to those who base the whole hog of their emotional response around these criticisms just tends to shut me down from even listening to those points for very long. And since I don't care much about paying any attention what so ever to the approval of either the general audience or most critics, I don't have great sympathy towards those who shut their minds off to films that get panned either. Why would anyone listen to general audiences or critics. They can add to the discussion but they aren't the whole discussion. No one should ever even contemplate shutting things out because of what they say. Art is personal. Let's keep it that way.

In short, people can approach films any way they like. I'm going to disagree with most of them regardless and I'm okay with that. As long as we can all agree The Conjuring is shit, were all good and there is no need to argue about anything.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Hipster Thor » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:55 pm

Focusing too much on plot mechanics makes you treat film in the same way MauLer does and nobody wants to be MauLer.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Stu » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:29 am

Hipster Thor wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:55 pm
Focusing too much on plot mechanics makes you treat film in the same way MauLer does and nobody wants to be MauLer.
Who?
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Takoma1
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Takoma1 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:29 am
Who?
Movie/videogame critic very focused on tearing stuff down.
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topherH
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by topherH » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:06 pm

For better or worse, why does the Rocky franchise work? AFAF.
State of Siege |Gavras, 1972| +
Deadpool |Miller, 2016| +
Z |Gavras, 1969| -
The Confession |Gavras, 1970| +
Missing |Gavras, 1982| +
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The Hateful Eight |Tarantino, 2015| +

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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:12 pm

:D
topherH wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:06 pm
For better or worse, why does the Rocky franchise work? AFAF.
The original did all of the legwork fleshing out the five main characters and then the rest of the series is free to get dumb and fun and jingoistic with them.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Rock » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:42 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:12 pm
:D

The original did all of the legwork fleshing out the five main characters and then the rest of the series is free to get dumb and fun and jingoistic with them.
That and I think the Stallone persona invests the proceedings with a degree of sincerity that keeps them from feeling truly cynical even when they go loud and/or dumb (also true of the Rambo films).
"We're outgunned and undermanned. But you know somethin'? We're gonna win. You know why? Superior attitude. Superior state of mind." - Mason Storm
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:36 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:12 pm
:D

The original did all of the legwork fleshing out the five main characters and then the rest of the series is free to get dumb and fun and jingoistic with them.
It really should have ended with the first film, but I am still glad we got Clubber Lang.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Hipster Thor » Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:48 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:36 pm
Movie/videogame critic very focused on tearing stuff down.
Critic is too prestigious a label. Gross pontificating beyond what is necessary, breaking down every single line of dialogue in a vacuum, and determining himself what is objective truth and dismissing the notion of subjectivity is not being a proper critic of art. He bloats his video essays to gross length to benefit from the algorithm and overwhelm his detractors ability to properly respond. How can an opposing viewpoint contend with a five hour long "deconstruction". You can't argue it because you dont have the time or resources to do so. He even employs this strategy against his opponents directly by applying the same criticism to their own video works. By speaking with such a sense of authority and length he projects a sense of intellectual authority impressionable people latch onto. He is incapable of separating plot from story and the us of metaphor, context, and themes. All work is judged by the binary of literal plot mechanics; does this make sense through the lense he can percieve the world. He neglects all other aspects to filmmaking and puts plot on a pedestal.

A real film critic would compare a piece within the context of the vast ocean that is film, but he focuses only on the cultural hotzones of the time, usually catering to the outrage culture of the online alt-right fanbase communities. Black Panther, Captain Marvel, The Last Jedi, etc. He denies being alt right but collaborates with right wing nutjobs.

A critic who denies the existence of subjectivity when evaluating the value of art is no critic, they are a propagandist.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Takoma1 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:41 pm

Hipster Thor wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:48 am
Critic is too prestigious a label.
I've never watched any of his stuff, so I was using the word "critic" in a very loose sense of the word.

I'm not really into people whose whole brand is "I'm cynical!". You're right that often such people LOVE creating an unreadable/unlistenable/unwatchable wall of "logical argument" that "wins" just by exhausting whoever is trying to wade through it.

And I totally agree with you that people who think that they are somehow the holder of "objective truth" when it comes to art are the worst.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:48 pm

Hipster Thor wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:48 am
Critic is too prestigious a label. Gross pontificating beyond what is necessary, breaking down every single line of dialogue in a vacuum, and determining himself what is objective truth and dismissing the notion of subjectivity is not being a proper critic of art. He bloays his video essays to gross length to benefit from the algorithm and overwhelm his detractors ability to properly respond. How can an opposing viewpoint contend with a five hour long "deconstruction". You can't argue it because you dont have the time or resources to do so. He even employs this strategy against his opponents directly by applying the same criticism to their own video works. By speaking with such a sense of authority and length he projects a sense of intellectual authority impressionable people latch onto. He is incapable of separating plot from story and the us of metaphor, context, and themes. All work is judged by the binary of literal plot mechanics; does this make sense through the lense he can percieve the world. He neglects all other aspects to filmmaking and puts plot on a pedestal.

A real film critic would compare a piece within the context of the vast ocean that is film, but he focuses only on the cultural hotzones of the time, usually catering to the outrage culture of the online alt-right fanbase communities. Black Panther, Captain Marvel, The Last Jedi, etc. He denies being alt right but collaborates with right wing nutjobs.

A critic who denies the existence of subjectivity when evaluating the value of art is no critic, they are a propagandist.
Sounds like Confused Matthew and just remembering he exists made me barf in my mouth.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by DaMU » Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:13 pm

Haha, remembering how Confused Matthew's take on 2001 was that it's boring because it's crap floating around in space.

We should've nuked the internet then. It only got worse from there.
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by topherH » Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:13 pm

DaMU wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:13 pm
Haha, remembering how Confused Matthew's take on 2001 was that it's boring because it's crap floating around in space.

We should've nuked the internet then. It only got worse from there.
I remember someone bringing this up back in old RT thread and laughing my ass off because one poster took it beyond serious and became depressed so much you could tell in his posts. That description above just made my day.

As for the Rocky question above, it came from part 4 being on tv last week. I tuned in just as Apollo Creed was making his entrance (you know the one) and being very entertained but now realizing how it got to that from the start of the original.
State of Siege |Gavras, 1972| +
Deadpool |Miller, 2016| +
Z |Gavras, 1969| -
The Confession |Gavras, 1970| +
Missing |Gavras, 1982| +
The Revenant |Inarritu, 2015| +
The Hateful Eight |Tarantino, 2015| +

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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by doberso » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:09 am

My real complaint is with the rest, starting with something like Dredd even just being an honorable mention, as, besides Ma-Ma having that entire floor mowed down (which isn't even a great action scene for me if I'm being honest, though it is definitely a good one), none of the action in that movie left much of an impression otherwise, slow-motion/psychedelic effects or not. The opening car chase was just okay, and the rest of it was mostly just the Judge mowing down baddies in a rather straightforward, stiff manner, and it was painfully obvious that Karl Urban (or his stuntmen) could barely see/move around in that costume, which really hurts the action. And don't even get me started on that Judge vs.Judge hand-to-hand fight where you can't even tell which one is Dredd because the director insisted he keep his faceplate on the entire time no matter what. Don't get me wrong, despite me being kind of mixed on the overall film, there were good things about Dredd, but the action, for the most part, wasn't one of them.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:02 am

doberso wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:09 am
My real complaint is with the rest, starting with something like Dredd even just being an honorable mention, as, besides Ma-Ma having that entire floor mowed down (which isn't even a great action scene for me if I'm being honest, though it is definitely a good one), none of the action in that movie left much of an impression otherwise, slow-motion/psychedelic effects or not. The opening car chase was just okay, and the rest of it was mostly just the Judge mowing down baddies in a rather straightforward, stiff manner, and it was painfully obvious that Karl Urban (or his stuntmen) could barely see/move around in that costume, which really hurts the action. And don't even get me started on that Judge vs.Judge hand-to-hand fight where you can't even tell which one is Dredd because the director insisted he keep his faceplate on the entire time no matter what. Don't get me wrong, despite me being kind of mixed on the overall film, there were good things about Dredd, but the action, for the most part, wasn't one of them.
The film is pretty to look at, but doesn't really challenge the viewer to think all that much. It's Paul Stretch applied to "painting in red." I did, however, find it enjoyable to rewatch. It is pretty in it own way. It also would've worked well an an establishing shot for sequels and there is some interesting Dredd lore that could be explored.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:13 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:02 am
The film is pretty to look at, but doesn't really challenge the viewer to think all that much. It's Paul Stretch applied to "painting in red." I did, however, find it enjoyable to rewatch. It is pretty in it own way. It also would've worked well an an establishing shot for sequels and there is some interesting Dredd lore that could be explored.
Just for the record, that person copied that paragraph from Stu from the first page of this thread.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:16 am

Apparently, that applies for all of that person's posts. Weird form of trolling.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:37 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:16 am
Apparently, that applies for all of that person's posts. Weird form of trolling.
More pleasant than the persistent Cyrillic alphabet-spam, I guess.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:43 am

Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:37 am
More pleasant than the persistent Cyrillic alphabet-spam, I guess.
I dunno. Maybe that's some code we have to decipher in order to receive those passports we've been waiting on for the past few years.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:55 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:43 am
I dunno. Maybe that's some code we have to decipher in order to receive those passports we've been waiting on for the past few years.
What? You haven't received yours yet? I've already travelled widely as "Consuela Rodriguez" for the better part of a year with no hindrance or scrutiny. Would buy again. 5 stars.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Sprague_Dawley » Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:29 am

Stu etc your expertise could greatly assist with my bongo-brained attempt at an RT forum database https://rottentomatoes.boards.net/ 1 film, 1 thread
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Stu
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Stu » Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:10 am

Sprague_Dawley wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:29 am
Stu etc your expertise could greatly assist with my bongo-brained attempt at an RT forum database https://rottentomatoes.boards.net/ 1 film, 1 thread
You mean like, you want me to post there? I'll see what I can do, I suppose...
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Slentert » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:32 pm

Occasionally I find it a little bit discerning how my grandparents (and probably a lot of people from their generation) seem to believe that, if you aren't suffering every single minute you are on the job, you aren't actually working.
I was talking to them through skype today and for about 10 minutes they were telling me about how horrible it was when my grandfather worked two jobs for a while, and how hard it was on his health and on their marriage. And then my grandmother literally said to me how she thought that I "lacked something like that in my life".

Don't get me wrong. I'm not afraid of working or anything, and I believe in doing your job well if you have one. I work as a caretaker of a mentally and physically disabled child myself, which can often be pretty intense, though not exactly physically taxing the way my grandfather's work was. But it seems to me that no matter what I achieve in my life, my grandparents always begrudge that the way I got there wasn't "painful" enough.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Takoma1 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:47 pm

Slentert wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:32 pm
Occasionally I find it a little bit discerning how my grandparents (and probably a lot of people from their generation) seem to believe that, if you aren't suffering every single minute you are on the job, you aren't actually working.
I was talking to them through skype today and for about 10 minutes they were telling me about how horrible it was when my grandfather worked two jobs for a while, and how hard it was on his health and on their marriage. And then my grandmother literally said to me how she thought that I "lacked something like that in my life".

Don't get me wrong. I'm not afraid of working or anything, and I believe in doing your job well if you have one. I work as a caretaker of a mentally and physically disabled child myself, which can often be pretty intense, though not exactly physically taxing the way my grandfather's work was. But it seems to me that no matter what I achieve in my life, my grandparents always begrudge that the way I got there wasn't "painful" enough.
I think that there are two things at play here:

One is that many people want their suffering to "mean something". So it is not uncommon for people to almost be wistful about going through hard times and even credit those hard times with having made them better in the end.

The other is that the notion that suffering builds character. I think that a lot of people in the older generations think that younger people have it "too easy" and that this will result in people with fewer practical skills, less toughness, and weaker moral character. (For what it's worth, I once read a letter from a teacher from like the 1300s that basically was like "Kids these days have it too easy!!" so this is not a new development!).

It's kind of funny to me the way that mixed emotions about different circumstances express themselves. Back in high school the school was thinking about changing the way that students had to complete community service hours. They were going to change it so that you could do half of your hours in a single year instead of doing a minimum of 15 each year. This would make life easier for a lot of people. And I had classmates who wanted to vote against the change and their reasoning was literally "Why should they get to do it that way when we had to do it the hard way?".

Basically, the human brain is really good at morphing itself to believe that how you live your personal life is the "right way" and this then creates conflict when you see other people living/succeeding in a different way.

This isn't to say that going through tough experiences is bad. I think that having experiences like working a customer service job, working in some form of physical labor, living on a limited budget, etc are all good and important experiences. More than anything else I think that having understanding and empathy for how other people live is really important. But I don't think that work has to be suffering.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Slentert » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:24 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:47 pm
I think that there are two things at play here:

One is that many people want their suffering to "mean something". So it is not uncommon for people to almost be wistful about going through hard times and even credit those hard times with having made them better in the end.

The other is that the notion that suffering builds character. I think that a lot of people in the older generations think that younger people have it "too easy" and that this will result in people with fewer practical skills, less toughness, and weaker moral character. (For what it's worth, I once read a letter from a teacher from like the 1300s that basically was like "Kids these days have it too easy!!" so this is not a new development!).

It's kind of funny to me the way that mixed emotions about different circumstances express themselves. Back in high school the school was thinking about changing the way that students had to complete community service hours. They were going to change it so that you could do half of your hours in a single year instead of doing a minimum of 15 each year. This would make life easier for a lot of people. And I had classmates who wanted to vote against the change and their reasoning was literally "Why should they get to do it that way when we had to do it the hard way?".

Basically, the human brain is really good at morphing itself to believe that how you live your personal life is the "right way" and this then creates conflict when you see other people living/succeeding in a different way.

This isn't to say that going through tough experiences is bad. I think that having experiences like working a customer service job, working in some form of physical labor, living on a limited budget, etc are all good and important experiences. More than anything else I think that having understanding and empathy for how other people live is really important. But I don't think that work has to be suffering.
I agree with everything you're saying, and just to make sure, I wasn't trying to deny or downplay that you can learn a lot from going through tough times, nor undervaluing working a customer service job or anything like that. That wasn't the intention of my post.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Takoma1 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:09 pm

Slentert wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:24 pm
I agree with everything you're saying, and just to make sure, I wasn't trying to deny or downplay that you can learn a lot from going through tough times, nor undervaluing working a customer service job or anything like that. That wasn't the intention of my post.
No, I understood exactly what you were saying.

There are some people who really feel that there has to be some element of suffering or discomfort for it to be "real" work.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:41 pm

Slentert wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:32 pm
Occasionally I find it a little bit discerning how my grandparents (and probably a lot of people from their generation) seem to believe that, if you aren't suffering every single minute you are on the job, you aren't actually working.
I was talking to them through skype today and for about 10 minutes they were telling me about how horrible it was when my grandfather worked two jobs for a while, and how hard it was on his health and on their marriage. And then my grandmother literally said to me how she thought that I "lacked something like that in my life".

Don't get me wrong. I'm not afraid of working or anything, and I believe in doing your job well if you have one. I work as a caretaker of a mentally and physically disabled child myself, which can often be pretty intense, though not exactly physically taxing the way my grandfather's work was. But it seems to me that no matter what I achieve in my life, my grandparents always begrudge that the way I got there wasn't "painful" enough.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by DaMU » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:34 am

Slentert wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:32 pm
Occasionally I find it a little bit discerning how my grandparents (and probably a lot of people from their generation) seem to believe that, if you aren't suffering every single minute you are on the job, you aren't actually working.
I was talking to them through skype today and for about 10 minutes they were telling me about how horrible it was when my grandfather worked two jobs for a while, and how hard it was on his health and on their marriage. And then my grandmother literally said to me how she thought that I "lacked something like that in my life".

Don't get me wrong. I'm not afraid of working or anything, and I believe in doing your job well if you have one. I work as a caretaker of a mentally and physically disabled child myself, which can often be pretty intense, though not exactly physically taxing the way my grandfather's work was. But it seems to me that no matter what I achieve in my life, my grandparents always begrudge that the way I got there wasn't "painful" enough.
In general, I think that it is not useful to compare your pain to somebody else's-- or that the limitations of that comparison are so significant that the exercise is rarely worth it. The example I've discussed in therapy is that someone dying in Denver doesn't mean I didn't just break my wrist. One of the problems with these sorts of comparisons is that it closes off opportunities for us to discuss our emotions with each other. That kind of response doesn't promote conversation, it closes it. Stop whining.

I had this happen recently when I briefly mentioned bullying I dealt with when I was younger. I wasn't tortured or anything, but picked on day after day and physically hit once in a while (I was a small boy for quite a while), and I was trying to bring that up to illustrate a point about something else-- but the person I was talking to said, "Well, you know who had it tough, your grandfather," and they launched into all his suffering as a way to minimize mine.

But that doesn't actually help either party! It closes off the older generation's access to empathy for the younger generation, which can close them off somewhat to people who may love them, and it can leave the younger generation associating guilt and shame with their own pain ("I should feel bad I said anything about my pain"). This doesn't help at all!

In general, this kind of approach to life bothers me, because it feels like so many people climb a difficult "rope wall," and then when other people are trying to climb it, their instinct is to pull up the rope instead of reaching out a hand, because if I had to suffer, you have to too. Maybe the fear is that if someone succeeds without enduring the suffering "I" did, then my internal narrative (that my suffering was necessary for growth or achievement) feels less ironclad.

That was a long-ass way of saying I empathize with ya and have experienced similar vibes. I don't know if you need advice, but I generally smile, nod, and remind myself that my emotions are allowed, and I'm living my life for me, not them.
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:55 am

DaMU wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:34 am
That was a long-ass way of saying I empathize with ya and have experienced similar vibes. I don't know if you need advice, but I generally smile, nod, and remind myself that my emotions are allowed, and I'm living my life for me, not them.
Or take from it what positive you can ("This person wants me to live a happy and successful life") and leave the negative part behind ("You won't be happy and successful if you don't do things the same way I did"). I think that it is hard for some people to imagine a path to happiness that doesn't look like their own and a generally well-meaning impulse can turn into criticism.

I also agree that the pain comparison game is a slippery slope. I do think that it's important to be tuned in to the pain of others (ie I am being very diplomatic about complaining about my job right now because so many people I know don't even have a job to speak of at the moment), but it's always possible to find someone who is worse off and feeling bad about feeling bad is a waste of emotional energy.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Ergill » Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:48 am

DaMU wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:34 am
In general, I think that it is not useful to compare your pain to somebody else's-- or that the limitations of that comparison are so significant that the exercise is rarely worth it. The example I've discussed in therapy is that someone dying in Denver doesn't mean I didn't just break my wrist. One of the problems with these sorts of comparisons is that it closes off opportunities for us to discuss our emotions with each other. That kind of response doesn't promote conversation, it closes it. Stop whining.
I feel you, dude. You put it all very well. I get that with my older sister all the time. She has a weird inferiority complex with me where she's always trying to get the upper hand in a competition only she's playing by out-grievancing me, which isn't a game I'm into. Do you want to be the more important person due to grievance (some real, some merely perceived), or do you just want to just accept the love I want to give you because what's the fucking downside? Considering the grandpa versus grandson aspect here, during a family Zoom event recently, while discoursing to guilty Boomers, she tried to cut up a generational cohort with her and my cousin (four years and one year older than me) as people who experienced the trauma of 9/11, Iraq, and 2008. I have no idea how any of us experienced any of these worse than anyone else. We're all very privileged. What's the point?
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Slentert » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:59 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:09 pm
No, I understood exactly what you were saying.

There are some people who really feel that there has to be some element of suffering or discomfort for it to be "real" work.
Yeah, sorry, I guess I've been on the internet too long (especially Twitter) because I'm always scared that my words might be misinterpreted.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Slentert » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:02 am

DaMU wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:34 am
That was a long-ass way of saying I empathize with ya and have experienced similar vibes. I don't know if you need advice, but I generally smile, nod, and remind myself that my emotions are allowed, and I'm living my life for me, not them.
Thank you, I appreciate what you said. It's not the first time my grandparents made remarks like that, and sometimes I'm better at dealing with it than other times. I've been feeling rather down the past few weeks so it hit me harder this time around.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Thief » Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:05 pm

DaMU wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:34 am
In general, I think that it is not useful to compare your pain to somebody else's-- or that the limitations of that comparison are so significant that the exercise is rarely worth it. The example I've discussed in therapy is that someone dying in Denver doesn't mean I didn't just break my wrist. One of the problems with these sorts of comparisons is that it closes off opportunities for us to discuss our emotions with each other. That kind of response doesn't promote conversation, it closes it. Stop whining.

I had this happen recently when I briefly mentioned bullying I dealt with when I was younger. I wasn't tortured or anything, but picked on day after day and physically hit once in a while (I was a small boy for quite a while), and I was trying to bring that up to illustrate a point about something else-- but the person I was talking to said, "Well, you know who had it tough, your grandfather," and they launched into all his suffering as a way to minimize mine.

But that doesn't actually help either party! It closes off the older generation's access to empathy for the younger generation, which can close them off somewhat to people who may love them, and it can leave the younger generation associating guilt and shame with their own pain ("I should feel bad I said anything about my pain"). This doesn't help at all!

In general, this kind of approach to life bothers me, because it feels like so many people climb a difficult "rope wall," and then when other people are trying to climb it, their instinct is to pull up the rope instead of reaching out a hand, because if I had to suffer, you have to too. Maybe the fear is that if someone succeeds without enduring the suffering "I" did, then my internal narrative (that my suffering was necessary for growth or achievement) feels less ironclad.

That was a long-ass way of saying I empathize with ya and have experienced similar vibes. I don't know if you need advice, but I generally smile, nod, and remind myself that my emotions are allowed, and I'm living my life for me, not them.
I agree. Anybody that says that is, unconsciously or not, saying: "Stop whining, what you're feeling is not important". It loses the perspective that pain and suffering is very individual and that the fact that someone might have gone through the "same" thing, or "worse", doesn't mean we will process it the same way.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by DaMU » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:18 pm

Slentert wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:02 am
Thank you, I appreciate what you said. It's not the first time my grandparents made remarks like that, and sometimes I'm better at dealing with it than other times. I've been feeling rather down the past few weeks so it hit me harder this time around.
I don't remember where you're located, but I've noticed that speaking with other people I know who are in therapy or have self-admitted anxiety issues, quarantine (or at least social distancing) can magnify those feelings since there are fewer distractions, more time alone with our thoughts. If you ever need someone to talk to, feel free to shoot me a private message, sincerely. It's not an imposition. :up:
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Slentert » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:49 pm

DaMU wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:18 pm
I don't remember where you're located, but I've noticed that speaking with other people I know who are in therapy or have self-admitted anxiety issues, quarantine (or at least social distancing) can magnify those feelings since there are fewer distractions, more time alone with our thoughts. If you ever need someone to talk to, feel free to shoot me a private message, sincerely. It's not an imposition. :up:
Thanks man, I really appreciate you reaching out. I think this might be the only message board on the entire internet where people actually care about each other.
But I'm not going to bore you with my ridiculous hangups, I'm sure it will blow over eventually.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Torgo » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:21 pm

Shouldn't John Cena have played The Invisible Man?
Last Great Movie Seen
Before Sunrise (Linklater, 1995)
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:17 pm

Slentert wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:49 pm
Thanks man, I really appreciate you reaching out. I think this might be the only message board on the entire internet where people actually care about each other.
But I'm not going to bore you with my ridiculous hangups, I'm sure it will blow over eventually.
Just remember that no matter how bad things get, you can always come here and have Nameless tell you that you're a fascist for having the wrong opinion about a plot detail.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by The Nameless One » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:42 pm

Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:17 pm
Just remember that no matter how bad things get, you can always come here and have Nameless tell you that you're a fascist for having the wrong opinion about a plot detail.
Okay, first off, you are the shit on the bottom of my heel who ran away with his tail between his legs after stupidly comparing a pandemic level contagion to automobile risk assessment (for the record, that's what my uncle does for a living). Second, where did I provide even a semblance of what you are currently describing? The fuck? Are you okay?
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:46 pm

The Nameless One wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:42 pm
Okay, first off, you are the shit on the bottom of my heel who ran away with his tail between his legs after stupidly comparing a pandemic level contagion to car risk assessment. Second, where did I provide even a semblance of what you are currently describing? The fuck? Are you okay?
I am now, Nameless. I am now.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by The Nameless One » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:56 pm

Melvin Butterworth wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:46 pm
I am now, Nameless. I am now.
Yes, we are all losing our minds in quarantine. Be careful, Christ knows what this is all doing to our psychology. I'm sending you a huge virtual hug right now and signing off, I've been working far too hard the past week trying to keep up
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:27 pm

The Nameless One wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:56 pm
Yes, we are all losing our minds in quarantine. Be careful, Christ knows what this is all doing to our psychology. I'm sending you a huge virtual hug right now and signing off, I've been working far too hard the past week trying to keep up
Thanks Nameless. Right back at you.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Sat May 02, 2020 1:37 am

Subduing Feminity: The Womb of Chaos.

Our hero, stricken with grief, but driven by necessity, slays his love, her having become an unfortunate nexus of chaos, rage, and power. Thus (Spoilers for X-Men and Game of Thrones ahead)
Wolverine stabs Jean Gray in the stomach and Jon Snow stabs Daenerys Targaryen in the stomach.
It's interesting that sexist tropes (if these are actual instances?) still casually abound in the writing of people with good progressive credentials. I suppose that Netflix's The Witcher turns the trope on it's head, by basically making witches a sort of feminist critique (our emotions will rage against this man's world!), but then again, Tiamat and Medea also had provocation themselves before they went HAM, and they both hint at male fears of the feminine. There is that tricky question of whether appropriating a trope merely reinforces prior cultural coding (e.g., can the "N-word" be repurposed without keeping hate alive?). The implication in our modern cases is that of women emotional requiring dutiful regulation of the men who so dearly love them that they're forced to run them through. Our modern cases have more subtlety, than say, old tales of vagina dentata, but it is striking that we're still playing with tropes of women being emotional, and chaotic, deriving power from both, and requiring the hierarchical intervention of masculinity to save us all.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Wed May 06, 2020 1:50 am

THE LADYHAWKE PROBLEM: Great Film, Terrible Soundtrack

I love the film, but hate the soundtrack. I am absolutely against colorizing B/W. If it wasn't shot in color, then it was made to be in black and white. I am ambivalent about modernizing effects shots. When Lucas when full Jar Jar in fucking up the OT, I have been skeptical of these efforts. And yet! And yet... ...i cannot help help but think that some film would benefit with a new sound mix (get those levels right!), rerecording, or even re-scoring. My key example here is Ladyhawke. I love the film. I hate the fucking music.

Just got done watching Sorcerer on Blu Ray. Fantastic film and I love me some Tangerine Dream, but their music is sometimes primitive and rough. It is... ...of it's time, and to be frank, their music often feels "off the rack" and not really designed for a film. I that they did precisely this, for example, with The Keep. Instead of having a cue organically enter a scene, it feels like someone just pressed play on a tape deck.

I know. It's sacrilege. I am a monster to even speak of such things. But am I wrong?
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Hipster Thor » Thu May 07, 2020 11:06 am

Lots of leaks going around for The Last of Us Part 2. I have been spoiled inadvertently but I was never that invested in thr franchise to begin with. While all the bad people get angry about a protagonist being a muscular woman, I have more serious concerns I don't see addressed by anyone.

The content I am seeing is so gratuitous in it's visual presentation of intense violence that it asks the player to take part in I feel is not justified or warranted in anyway. It's one thing to have splattery gore in a movie or game that doesn't take itself seriously, but this is practically torture porn. The Last of Us tries to emulate the presentation of a film and the best films are able to portray horrible acts with subtlety or at least are used to make a point about a bad point in history that the text of the piece is examining.

I have seen others argue that the brutality is nessecary for informing the player how terrible that world is, but in reality that only needs to be done maybe once or twice. The point to he made is lost when you spike a human beings throat out with the wedge end of a hammer for the 100th time during regular gameplay and by the time you savagely beat a
pregnant woman
I think a game director has crossed the line from gratuitous to irresponsible/psychopathic.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Thu May 07, 2020 11:40 am

Hipster Thor wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:06 am
Lots of leaks going around for The Last of Us Part 2. I have been spoiled inadvertently but I was never that invested in thr franchise to begin with. While all the bad people get angry about a protagonist being a muscular woman, I have more serious concerns I don't see addressed by anyone.

The content I am seeing is so gratuitous in it's visual presentation of intense violence that it asks the player to take part in I feel is not justified or warranted in anyway. It's one thing to have splattery gore in a movie or game that doesn't take itself seriously, but this is practically torture porn. The Last of Us tries to emulate the presentation of a film and the best films are able to portray horrible acts with subtlety or at least are used to make a point about a bad point in history that the text of the piece is examining.

I have seen others argue that the brutality is nessecary for informing the player how terrible that world is, but in reality that only needs to be done maybe once or twice. The point to he made is lost when you spike a human beings throat out with the wedge end of a hammer for the 100th time during regular gameplay and by the time you savagely beat a
pregnant woman
I think a game director has crossed the line from gratuitous to irresponsible/psychopathic.
Hey, let's make a sequel to our beloved game where you have to violently murder the characters you bonded with in the first game, playing the last half a transgender female. That will teach those bigots!

Imagine if a sequel to Jax and Daxter forced players to murder both characters by a mid-game character switch into a Hindu, with an eye for teaching people that violence is bad and to make people appreciate world religions.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Hipster Thor » Thu May 07, 2020 11:46 am

I think you are missing my point. I myself am transgender for one thing, no one in The Last of Us 2 is to my knowledge. I wasn't trying to discuss the storyline as a whole. I can't have an opinion on that until I play the game. I wanted to talk about its depiction of violence and how it glorifies it and how that's bad.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Thu May 07, 2020 12:08 pm

Hipster Thor wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:46 am
I think you are missing my point. I myself am transgender for one thing, no one in The Last of Us 2 is to my knowledge. I wasn't trying to discuss the storyline as a whole. I can't have an opinion on that until I play the game. I wanted to talk about its depiction of violence and how it glorifies it and how that's bad.
Reports on the game that I have heard indicate a midgame switch into the character of the transgender daughter of the scientist that Joel killed in the first game (i.e., a revenge plot). I think that not only is forcing players to murder the characters they bonded with a bad touch, but it is especially so to have that unenviable task fall to a transgender character.
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Hipster Thor » Thu May 07, 2020 12:20 pm

Is there something wrong with a transgender character?
(Which she isn't by the way)
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Re: The Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Thu May 07, 2020 12:34 pm

Hipster Thor wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 12:20 pm
Is there something wrong with a transgender character?
(Which she isn't by the way)
I've heard reports to the contrary, but this is all speculation and gossip right now and the finished product is obviously subject to change.

If the goal, as has been speculated, is to make the game more inclusive by having players play as a trans character, this is an awful way to do it.

If video games had been first developed in the 1940s, and one our first African American characters were to be featured as a playable character in a 1955 release, and that character had to, as a matter of the forced progression of game play, viciously curb-stomp Archie and Veronica or Desi and Lucy, that would not be the most sympathetic way to broaden our horizons.
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