Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

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DaMU
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:32 pm

Hilariously, Species went even more full-bore into the empath thing by the end, painting it basically as telepathy, which-- hey, one thing at a time, Species. If you don't feel like you're nailing the alien story, don't try to buttress it up with another pillar of nonsense.

Also, the flick never really figures out how to work with its H.R. Giger creature effects. All the suited scenes are overlit and make the suit look like a suit, and the dips into CG at the end embarrass.

This all stinks 'cause the flick could've really been something. Henstridge's portrayal and Kingsley's potential paternal concern and playing Sil as a lost, confused, maturing woman really could've anchored a compelling and eerie story about the worst kind of growing up. Imagine David Cronenberg giving this material a try.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:55 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:56 pm
I think that it's strongly "horror adjacent" and its overall look stands out among 90s films.

I'd almost compare it to something like Valerie and Her Week of Wonders. Horror elements, yes. Would "horror movie" be the best way to describe it? Nope.
Interestingly, despite basically being the "Genre Police" as you have eloquently put it (I also give you high marks for your coining of "horror-adjacent") when it comes to horror, I absolutely consider Valerie a horror movie. It's just also at least one or two other kinds of movie at the same time.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:59 pm

Charles wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:36 am
Do you guys consider Perfect Blue and Silence of the Lamb to be horror?
I am a Never-Silencer when it comes to defining horror. For me it is the best example of the thriller vs. horror thing.
And Hollywood patting itself on the back, "See? We gave a horror-movie Best Picture." Poppycock.
But everyone thinks I'm a total crank when it comes to this topic, going back to RT days.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:01 pm

DaMU wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:04 am
Seven is one of those that's a tougher sell for me; that feels more like a pitch-black noir/thriller sprinkled with some Dante and Milton for that extra grim flavor. Sometimes I can determine how I feel based on evidence, and other times it's more intuitive. I think I include The Silence of the Lambs because Lecter has so damn much of that Count Dracula serpentine charisma. Well, that and the cannibal stuff. :)

But that's just me.
I'm with you, this is the first time I've ever even considered that Seven could be considered for the horror-or-thriller conversation. For me it's clearly a thriller. Never thought of horror once while watching or thinking about that film.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Melvin Butterworth » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:06 pm

DaMU wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:32 pm
Imagine David Cronenberg giving this material a try.
Didn't we already get this movie?
Image


https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076590/
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:47 pm

Spencie Returns wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:07 am
I'm late to the party, but I've always been confused at the stigma attached to Hostel. The premise alone seems to turn off a lot of folks who don't otherwise bat an eye at comparable movie violence. I really enjoy the atmosphere of the first movie, and seem to remember the second one taking a fun and campy turn.
ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:19 am
I honestly think it has to do with the way it was marketed as the most extreme, fucked up and viciously violent film ever made that caused people to puke and pass out rather than the actual film itself. People walk in with that mindset are bound to react accordingly.
If the "horror element" (or the major horror element) of a film is someone being tortured, I just have zero interest. It makes me antsy and uncomfortable, and not in any kind of fun "I'm being challenged" way. Having been acquainted with someone who was a victim of torture, it also feels "too real" for me.

And I'll admit that I also was put off by the marketing, as MKS notes. My 18-22 year old self was all about the extremes and the most bloody this and the most gory that. But once I got past that phase, I really started to be annoyed by films whose only claim to fame was their extremity, as if a script written by people brainstorming cruel things to do to someone was any kind of accomplishment.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Charles » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:14 am

DaMU wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:32 pm
Hilariously, Species went even more full-bore into the empath thing by the end, painting it basically as telepathy, which-- hey, one thing at a time, Species. If you don't feel like you're nailing the alien story, don't try to buttress it up with another pillar of nonsense.

Also, the flick never really figures out how to work with its H.R. Giger creature effects. All the suited scenes are overlit and make the suit look like a suit, and the dips into CG at the end embarrass.

This all stinks 'cause the flick could've really been something. Henstridge's portrayal and Kingsley's potential paternal concern and playing Sil as a lost, confused, maturing woman really could've anchored a compelling and eerie story about the worst kind of growing up. Imagine David Cronenberg giving this material a try.
Maybe look into the sequels to see if they explore the themes a bit better ;)
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Charles » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:15 am

Wooley wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:59 pm
I am a Never-Silencer when it comes to defining horror. For me it is the best example of the thriller vs. horror thing.
And Hollywood patting itself on the back, "See? We gave a horror-movie Best Picture." Poppycock.
But everyone thinks I'm a total crank when it comes to this topic, going back to RT days.
I also have Silence firmly in thriller. It's too policey to be horror, it doensn't have the vibe.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:49 am

Wooley wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:59 pm
I am a Never-Silencer when it comes to defining horror. For me it is the best example of the thriller vs. horror thing.
And Hollywood patting itself on the back, "See? We gave a horror-movie Best Picture." Poppycock.
But everyone thinks I'm a total crank when it comes to this topic, going back to RT days.
Rest assured, we think you're a total crank for completely different reasons. ;)
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The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:20 am

DaMU wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:49 am
Rest assured, we think you're a total crank for completely different reasons. ;)
Ha!
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by wichares » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:23 am

The Invisible Man (2020) - The great opening scene is such an effective blend of real-world thematic richness and masterful horror directing, which makes it a slight disappointment that apart from the closing sequence, the rest of the film doesn't have that nuanced balance. Only Moss retains that richness, while on a scene-by-scene basis the film retreats to a more generic, first-draft horror writing/characterization, at times making it hard for suspension of disbelief and bloating the running time to two hours. But Whannell's use of silence and space is sharp throughout, with expert tension-and-release rhythm, and Moss really just elevates the whole thing. 7.5/10
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Stu » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:29 am

I would say that, in the interest of compromise, that Silence is a particularly horrific Thriller, since both sides could legitimately make solid cases for it belonging to either genre. You could try to classify it as pure Thriller due to the complete lack of any supernatural elements in it, but then again, Jaws doesn't have anything supernatural about it at all, and I've still seen plenty of people call it a Horror movie, so how do you draw the line?
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:01 am

Stu wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:29 am
I would say that, in the interest of compromise, that Silence is a particularly horrific Thriller, since both sides could legitimately make solid cases for it belonging to either genre. You could try to classify it as pure Thriller due to the complete lack of any supernatural elements in it, but then again, Jaws doesn't have anything supernatural about it at all, and I've still seen plenty of people call it a Horror movie, so how do you draw the line?
Honestly, I would straight-up and without hesitation call Jaws a Monster Movie, which almost always qualifies a movie as a Horror Movie.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:59 pm

I'll never get the purpose of cutting certain movies out of the horror camp. What is the necessity of a purity test? The only value I see in worrying about genre is when considering if a person might be swayed to watch a movie because it will have elements they like. Fans of horror type films will likely like Silence or Jaws or Seven for obvious reasons. Just let them know it does things beyond scares.

That said, I could see reasons why one would hesitate to brand Valerie as a horror. I would but I get the resistance. Most fans of horror films I know I doubt would like it much.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:13 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:59 pm
That said, I could see reasons why one would hesitate to brand Valerie as a horror. I would but I get the resistance. Most fans of horror films I know I doubt would like it much.
I think that the main use (for me) of categorizing films is just giving a sense of what to expect as an audience member.

I think that it's good to have an open-mind when it comes to what the term "horror" can mean, but it's never fun to feel like you were being offered one thing and you got another. The Verdict is a great courtroom/legal drama. But if I asked you to recommend me a horror movie and you handed me The Verdict I'd be unhappy. Not because the film isn't good, but because I was looking for a certain kind of experience.

The plot description of The Reflecting Skin led me to expect something more akin to an artsy Fright Night and it took my brain a while to adjust to what it actually was.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:27 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:13 pm
I think that the main use (for me) of categorizing films is just giving a sense of what to expect as an audience member.

I think that it's good to have an open-mind when it comes to what the term "horror" can mean, but it's never fun to feel like you were being offered one thing and you got another. The Verdict is a great courtroom/legal drama. But if I asked you to recommend me a horror movie and you handed me The Verdict I'd be unhappy. Not because the film isn't good, but because I was looking for a certain kind of experience.

The plot description of The Reflecting Skin led me to expect something more akin to an artsy Fright Night and it took my brain a while to adjust to what it actually was.
I've had situations where my expectations got in the way as well, sometimes because of what genre a movie was considered at the video store. That's inevitably going to happen though. The Exorcist or Rosemary's Baby are probably more 'drama' than horror when we boil them down, but they are generally considered by most to be lynch pins in the genre. I would place much of The Reflecting Skin in that camp. Some may find it too slow a burn, and the horror too vague, to be thought of as a true horror film. But it contains many of the elements those who love the genre in all its shapes and sizes could appreciate. So...horror. Otherwise, if we classified it as say... a drama...someone like my grandmother would be 'what the fuck is all this vampire talk in my drama, dammit'. You can ultimately never win in the genre debates. As far as I'm concerned, they should be the loosest of guidelines.

Obviously, is someone is recommending The Verdict, they are abusing such looseness and they should immediately be disqualified as a friend or acquaintance.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:32 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:59 pm
I'll never get the purpose of cutting certain movies out of the horror camp. What is the necessity of a purity test? The only value I see in worrying about genre is when considering if a person might be swayed to watch a movie because it will have elements they like. Fans of horror type films will likely like Silence or Jaws or Seven for obvious reasons. Just let them know it does things beyond scares.
To me, it's more a simple matter of seeing if clarity (organization) can be found in an unclear space (blurry genre boundaries). Worrying doesn't factor into it, and "exclusion" is never intended as a diminishment, just a clarification of context/intention.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:33 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:27 pm
I've had situations where my expectations got in the way as well, sometimes because of what genre a movie was considered at the video store. That's inevitably going to happen though. The Exorcist or Rosemary's Baby are probably more 'drama' than horror when we boil them down, but they are generally considered by most to be lynch pins in the genre. I would place much of The Reflecting Skin in that camp. Some may find it too slow a burn, and the horror too vague, to be thought of as a true horror film. But it contains many of the elements those who love the genre in all its shapes and sizes could appreciate. So...horror. Otherwise, if we classified it as say... a drama...someone like my grandmother would be 'what the fuck is all this vampire talk in my drama, dammit'. You can ultimately never win in the genre debates. As far as I'm concerned, they should be the loosest of guidelines.
I agree. I think that it's fine to call The Reflecting Skin a horror movie, but I think that the horror element of it is oversold and the commonly given plot description and images that are shown from the film would lead many people (myself included) to expect a more "pure horror" than what it is.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Charles » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:31 pm

For me it's about recommendations, really. If someone's recommending me a horror movie, I'm expecting something. Something vague, but something nonetheless. If someone were to recommend me Silence as a horror, I would expect some footnote to that recommendation, lest i be somewhat disappointed at not getting what I came for.

It miffs me a bit to see Silence and similar movies classified as horror because there's so many lists of greatest horror that are just thrillers. I also don't think something like Rosemary's Baby is horror, despite always being mentionned as such.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:36 pm

Charles wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:31 pm
For me it's about recommendations, really. If someone's recommending me a horror movie, I'm expecting something. Something vague, but something nonetheless. If someone were to recommend me Silence as a horror, I would expect some footnote to that recommendation, lest i be somewhat disappointed at not getting what I came for.

It miffs me a bit to see Silence and similar movies classified as horror because there's so many lists of greatest horror that are just thrillers. I also don't think something like Rosemary's Baby is horror, despite always being mentionned as such.
Yeah, that's pretty much my metric. If I'm looking to watch a horror movie, would I feel satisfied if I watched Silence, Seven, or Silence of the Lambs, and would I feel like they were what I was looking for? If the answer is yes, I'd be perfectly okay with classifying them as a horror film. If I'd say no though, I wouldn't classify them as such as they didn't feel like horror films to me. If I was looking for a horror film to watch, I'd be satisfied with Silence of the Lambs as I feel like that counts as a horror film. If I watched Seven or Silence though, I wouldn't be satisfied as I don't think that they're straight up horror films.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:20 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:33 pm
I agree. I think that it's fine to call The Reflecting Skin a horror movie, but I think that the horror element of it is oversold and the commonly given plot description and images that are shown from the film would lead many people (myself included) to expect a more "pure horror" than what it is.
I'm not for movies being sold heavily on their horror element if it isn't prevalent, but I'm also against how most movies are sold anyways because their is rarely much to be trusted in advertising.

Everyone has a different definition of what horror is, so it starts getting dogmatic when we try and preserve a genre definition. Some don't see a film as being horror unless it involves a supernatural element. Does this rule out Halloween? Some require an element of the gothic with their monster movie, but would that rule out Martin or Frankenhooker? Is Scream comedy or horror? Do we rule out social realist horrors like Maniac or Driller Killer? It all just creates all of these silly and mostly unnecessary battle lines.

For me it is best to embrace the largest definition possible. Just because Silence is more Thriller than horror hardly rules it out as being a part of the later.

In short, I think I basically want to be done with the 'was it scary' litmus test that I believe many use to qualify what horror is to them. Not saying anyone here does that but for me that seems to cheapen the genre and I have definitely known many in my life that do define on these strictly emotionally based terms.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:03 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:20 pm
I'm not for movies being sold heavily on their horror element if it isn't prevalent, but I'm also against how most movies are sold anyways because their is rarely much to be trusted in advertising.
I agree. In this case, though, I'm not only talking about the "formal" advertising of the film (trailer, DVD cover, etc), but the way I've repeatedly encountered people talking about it (formally in a magazine article, informally on the internet).

Frankly I think that it's hard to summarize the plot of The Reflecting Skin in a neat little sentence or two. I also think that there's an unfortunate pattern with many "artsy" films where people who are fans of them want them to be more widely seen, and so they oversell the horror aspect. I think that it's a well-intentioned, but unfortunate, habit of people who want "the masses" to be more open to films that are different or less accessible.

There is horror to be found in The Reflecting Skin, but it's a much more nuanced horror for the most part than a mutant alligator or a serial killer. Again, from everything I'd read online (and in print) I was expecting an artsy Fright Night. I wish that someone had just had the nerve to say that the horror is highly hinged on the gap between the understanding of a child and the reality of the world around him, and that it's a grim exploration of the moment of maturity when you discover just how much of the world around you is out of your control.
In short, I think I basically want to be done with the 'was it scary' litmus test that I believe many use to qualify what horror is to them. Not saying anyone here does that but for me that seems to cheapen the genre and I have definitely known many in my life that do define on these strictly emotionally based terms.
Again, agreed. I would have a really hard time articulating what makes a film horror or not horror. And most of the time it's not something I care about all that much. I do respond to many of the tropes in horror, which is why I'm a fan of the genre. But horror movies are so diverse (as you noted in your post) that setting boundaries to it as a genre seems both impossible and pointless.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Torgo » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:07 pm

Rare Exports has a unique premise and the story that goes along with is not half bad either, but it has a mostly vanilla execution. Also, the production has the quality and efficiency I've come to expect from Scandinavian cinema and not just in regard to its runtime (it's a trim 83 minutes). I especially liked the imposing shots of the burial mountain and any shots featuring the hordes of Santa's "elves" running through the woods. Regardless, it's a big light on the thrills, chills, spills and everything else I hope to experience in movies like this one, so much so that when it ended, I felt like I had not experienced much of anything at all. The storytelling and filmmaking are enough for me to recommend it, but overall, it’s the horror movie version of The Far Side comic titled “Far Side Lite:” “not scary, but better for you.”
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:27 pm

Image

Hope this doesn't stretch the page too much, but it gave me a nice chuckle.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:31 pm

Torgo wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:07 pm
Rare Exports has a unique premise and the story that goes along with is not half bad either, but it has a mostly vanilla execution. Also, the production has the quality and efficiency I've come to expect from Scandinavian cinema and not just in regard to its runtime (it's a trim 83 minutes). I especially liked the imposing shots of the burial mountain and any shots featuring the hordes of Santa's "elves" running through the woods. Regardless, it's a big light on the thrills, chills, spills and everything else I hope to experience in movies like this one, so much so that when it ended, I felt like I had not experienced much of anything at all. The storytelling and filmmaking are enough for me to recommend it, but overall, it’s the horror movie version of The Far Side comic titled “Far Side Lite:” “not scary, but better for you.”
I was pretty disappointed by Rare Exports, to be honest. I liked its vibe, but right now I would struggle to name a single scene that really stuck in my mind.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rock » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:44 pm

DaMU wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:27 pm
Hope this doesn't stretch the page too much, but it gave me a nice chuckle.
:fresh:

I lol'd.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:53 am

Ya know, I have to say I have never fully bonded with Horror Of Dracula, really, because of the one scene at the climax.
I just watched the original trailer and it says, "How do you destroy a fiend who has so far proven himself to be indestructible?!"
Well, as anyone who has seen the movies knows, apparently by
holding two candlesticks together.
:roll:
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DaMU
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:23 am

If any of you are feeling the Stuart Gordon pain, the following flicks of his are free (w/ ads):

Castle Freak (Tubi)
Dagon (Tubi)
The Pit and the Pendulum (Tubi)

Dolls (Pluto TV)
From Beyond (Pluto TV)

Edmond (Vudu Free)
King of the Ants (PopcornFlix / Vudu Free)
The Dentist (co-writer) (Vudu Free / Tubi)

Stuck (IMDB TV)

(His two Masters of Horror episodes, "Dreams in the Witch-House" and "The Black Cat," are two bucks a pop on Redbox, and I think they're worth it.)
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
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Charles
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Charles » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:26 am

Are there mods here anymore? These bots are a bit of a hassle.
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crumbsroom
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:28 pm

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Charles
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Charles » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:43 pm

The Earth Dies Screaming is ironically the quietest 50's sci-fi I've seen, aside maybe from Forbidden Planet.
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Takoma1
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:22 pm

Charles wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:43 pm
The Earth Dies Screaming is ironically the quietest 50's sci-fi I've seen, aside maybe from Forbidden Planet.
We're screaming but, you know, on the *inside*.

I don't know if someone already posted about this, but a lot of streaming services are offering free promotions and Shudder is one of them.
ThatDarnMKS
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:19 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:22 pm
We're screaming but, you know, on the *inside*.

I don't know if someone already posted about this, but a lot of streaming services are offering free promotions and Shudder is one of them.
Is Criterion channel?
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Takoma1
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:00 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:19 pm
Is Criterion channel?
Here's the article I was referencing: https://news.avclub.com/specialized-str ... 1842384492

It doesn't look like Criterion has any special offers on right now, sorry.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:57 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:00 pm
Here's the article I was referencing: https://news.avclub.com/specialized-str ... 1842384492

It doesn't look like Criterion has any special offers on right now, sorry.
Dang. I’ve got Shudder and it’s swell. There’s a lot that could be better but for such a small, niche streamer, I enjoy it.

I’m hoping Criterion does an offer soon so I can jump on it. I just have a feeling that the moment I sign up, they’ll do one.

And just a heads up, on Shudder, the Castle Freak available is an ugly pan scan BUT if you watch the Joe Bob Briggs episode of it, it’s widescreen HD.
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Wooley
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:47 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:47 pm
If the "horror element" (or the major horror element) of a film is someone being tortured, I just have zero interest. It makes me antsy and uncomfortable, and not in any kind of fun "I'm being challenged" way. Having been acquainted with someone who was a victim of torture, it also feels "too real" for me.

And I'll admit that I also was put off by the marketing, as MKS notes. My 18-22 year old self was all about the extremes and the most bloody this and the most gory that. But once I got past that phase, I really started to be annoyed by films whose only claim to fame was their extremity, as if a script written by people brainstorming cruel things to do to someone was any kind of accomplishment.
Ya know, the early films on that curve of the Second Wave (after The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and other 70s movies wave was almost 30 years in the rearview) I actually liked, specifically Haute Tension and House Of 1,000 Corpses. After that it seemed like it really caught on (extremism and torture) and I came to really hate it. I still like those first two though.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:12 pm

I think Ho1kC has a substantial amount more of sadism than Hostel but they're not particularly far apart in regards to dark humor and throwback subversion. I don't get what Hostel does that is more offensive at all. Beyond it's "SO EXTREME" Marketing.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:47 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:12 pm
I think Ho1kC has a substantial amount more of sadism than Hostel but they're not particularly far apart in regards to dark humor and throwback subversion. I don't get what Hostel does that is more offensive at all. Beyond it's "SO EXTREME" Marketing.
Well, I guess the first thing is that Hostel came later by a couple years so I'd already seen the other two films (just as examples) use the extreme violence/torture thing to frightening effect. Another is probably that Hostel had the marketing while House was a film that got buried at first and Haute Tension was a foreign horror in the mid-2000s, and they had to kinda be found so they had a forbidden feel to them contributed to the vibe that the movies then earn. That may not be fair to Hostel, which had so much more marketing push by comparison, all the talk about Tarantino and shit, but it is what it is. Third, House is not only obviously a narrative descendent of the earliest of its subgenre, and the first one I'm aware of in this new wave of it, it is also tonally a descendent of TCM and the best of early grind-house horror. It is grim and nihilistic and pretty unrelenting and so all the gruesome physical violence feels shocking but in a truly frightening way because it is contextual. It happens in the movie it isn't the whole point of the movie. A lot more like Last House On The Left than some of the later grind-house horrors or the Herschel Gordon Lewis stuff that really are just going for gore and depravity shocks, that really It feels far more honest to me, as did its progenitors. And of course, Zombie takes more artistic chances, whether they land or not, and so the movie is more interesting to me in general. But it is also just batshit crazy in a way that makes all the grim shit that happens have context. Same for HT, that movie actually fucking scared me for a while because that extreme violence was there for a purpose, not just for the lulz.
Hostel, on the other hand, feels like Quentin Tarantino's lil' bro' in the frat-house, who really liked grind-house movies, but specifically liked them for the gore and over-the-top aspects, finally got the go-ahead and money to make his own after these riskier films (and his Big Bro) had paved the way for him, and made the movie he wanted to make to wink-wink at all the other grind-house fan-boys and make his Big Bro proud. It comes across as slick at first and then once the bad things start, as I said before, it's just so fucking glib about everything, again like Roth is winking and grinning and giggling and just so fucking proud of himself. And it's really that glib attitude that I hated. In the context of something like House or Martyrs, I can kinda tolerate it because it feels like it is part of the horror of the film, whereas in Hostel it feels like the whole film is built around Eli Roth thinking it would be so cool to have a young woman's eye burned out with a blowtorch. Like he's looking back at the audience (and his frat bros) and saying, "Dude, did you see that, that was fucking awesome!" Even in Devil's Rejects, which certainly has more camp (but also far more art), Zombie keeps the "torture" aspects grim and functional and you actually dread seeing what they might do next rather than being like, "Aw, DUDE, wait'll you see this next shit!"
So, I guess I would consolidate it by saying Hostel feels like a less artistic, slicker, glib torture-porn film made by a douchebag for his frat-bros. And I hated it.
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DaMU
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:50 pm

House spreads its horror among a thousand corpses. Hostel has fewer corpses, so therefore the horror is more potently packaged.

That's just math.
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The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
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Wooley
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:09 pm

DaMU wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:50 pm
House spreads its horror among a thousand corpses. Hostel has fewer corpses, so therefore the horror is more potently packaged.

That's just math.
Ha!
Damn you! ;)
I cannot argue with that.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rock » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:48 pm

DaMU wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:50 pm
House spreads its horror among a thousand corpses. Hostel has fewer corpses, so therefore the horror is more potently packaged.

That's just math.
Counterpoint: a hostel is bigger than a house, and therefore dilutes the horror with its greater volume.
"We're outgunned and undermanned. But you know somethin'? We're gonna win. You know why? Superior attitude. Superior state of mind." - Mason Storm
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Charles
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Charles » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:13 pm

Don't forget to factor in the volume of the victims.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rock » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:14 pm

Charles wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:13 pm
Don't forget to factor in the volume of the victims.
And remember to carry the 1.
"We're outgunned and undermanned. But you know somethin'? We're gonna win. You know why? Superior attitude. Superior state of mind." - Mason Storm
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:50 pm

Hostel evokes older horror than House, therefore it is better.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:56 pm

Apart from thinking that Wooley should probably rewatch Hostel away from the marketing campaign, preferably after a Giallo binge, I've decided to go on a binge myself.

Upon Stuart Gordon's death, I realized it wasn't acceptable to have seen so few of his films, so I've watched the following:

Castle Freak: Mean horror with some very solid drama work. It doesn't ALWAYS work but man, is it striking at times and I can't help but feel like the creature at the end of Rec was an homage to the climax of this film.

Dolls: A nice little fairytale horror. The movie Puppet Master should have been.

Dagon: I kinda loved this apart from the bad acting. He really swing for the fences here and almost hit a home run. I wish he'd gotten a suitable budget but what he pulled off is masterful. Feel very late to the game (pun!) but I feel like a lot of the choices in Resident Evil 4 make a lot of sense.
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Takoma1
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:24 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:56 pm
Dolls: A nice little fairytale horror. The movie Puppet Master should have been.

Dagon: I kinda loved this apart from the bad acting. He really swing for the fences here and almost hit a home run. I wish he'd gotten a suitable budget but what he pulled off is masterful.
I really like Dolls--I think it's a ton of fun and the kind of movie I'd be comfortable showing a 12-13 year old but that's also fun for an adult.

I thought that Dagon was okay, but didn't love it. I haven't seen it since it first came out, though.



In the Dark Half was an interesting little film. A young woman, Marie, agrees to babysit the boy next door while his father, Filthy, goes out for some illicit evening hunting in the nearby hillside. During the night the little boy dies, inexplicably. As both Marie and Filthy try to come to grips with the boy's death, Marie begins to believe that she is cursed and haunted by the little boy's spirit.

I liked this one a lot more than I expected to, and for several reasons. To begin with, there were a lot of interesting character touches. Marie's mother is determined to renovate their house, and as Marie begins to feel crazier and crazier, she wakes to things like her mother destroying a staircase with a sledgehammer.

Then there's the relationship between Marie and Filthy. Initially blaming her for his son's death, their relationship gets more complex as the film goes on. Filthy is sunk in his own grief, but he can also see that Marie is growing unstable. There's a conspicuous absence of Marie's own father, and the film walks a really fine line as it balances the different dynamics of their relationship--elements of sexuality, blame, anger, and paternalism.

The movie is given a boost by Jessica Barden's performance as Marie and Tony Curran's performance as Filthy. I like Tony Curran quite a lot as an actor, but he definitely has a dangerous/predatory vibe to him a lot of the time (to be charitable, I think that it's intensity that easily trips over into being kind of frightening). It adds an element of uncertainty. Marie is in danger from herself but also from Filthy, and it's an interesting push-pull of the real and the supernatural.

Anyway, the movie isn't perfect, but I'd recommend it. It's streaming on Amazon Prime.
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Apex Predator
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Apex Predator » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:32 am

I never found House of a 1000 Corpses on the same level as Hostel. His followup The Devil's Rejects comes closer to that vibe.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:40 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:24 am
I really like Dolls--I think it's a ton of fun and the kind of movie I'd be comfortable showing a 12-13 year old but that's also fun for an adult.

I thought that Dagon was okay, but didn't love it. I haven't seen it since it first came out, though.
Dolls flirts with being just a TAD more harsh than other films I'd give ascribe as having a similar vibe (Krampus and Trick R Treat) with it's penchant for stabbing and slicing but agreed. Though, I was the 12 year old that had seen every franchise slasher and major zombie film so maybe I'm not the best judge on what's appropriate.

I really loved the way the film captured the claustrophobic feeling of being trapped on an island of crazy mutant cult members. The only real complaint I have is that there's an incongruity between the filmmaking and the performances/scoring, where the former presents something legitimately harrowing while the latter feels unintentionally campy. That said, practically all of Gordon's films have campy but I feel it's sold better when it's stronger actors like Combs, Crampton or Henrickson. But the film goes ALL the way with it's bananas premise and it felt like what Gareth Edwards attempted with the Apostle (which I've been feeling like giving a rewatch).
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