Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rock » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:00 am

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This movie technically falls into the same genre as Poltergeist and the like, and it’s a pretty effective example, using a combination of shadowy ‘Scope cinematography and assaultive scoring as a reliable source of jolts. (The Peter Tscherkassky short film Outer Space reshapes these pieces into an experience of purer unease, but one which still retains the qualities of the original film.) But what I think makes it stand out from other such films is Barbara Hershey’s performance, which is weightier, more mature and fearless than might be expected from a genre that exists primarily to offer thrills and chills. (It’s also at times a bracingly physical performance, which the Tscherkassky short emphasizes alongside the film’s audiovisual elements.) Her work almost does justice to the psychosexual angles that the movie raises but doesn’t quite follow through on satisfactorily (and at the very least makes the movie feel less sleazy), and suggests an ambition not fully realized in the finished product. The most fully developed character aside from Hershey’s is the sympathetic yet skeptical psychologist played by Ron Silver, while the ghostbuster types relished in Poltergeist and the films of James Wan come off as afterthoughts, perfunctory and presented with little affection. Even though Silver’s character is shown to be wrong, the movie seems to take his side dramatically, favouring human emotion even if at odds with its genre requirements. At a base level these movies tap into a fear that the safety offered by domesticity will prove fleeting, and the climax here, set in a mockup of the heroine’s home that’s supposed to serve as a trap for the ghost, plays both like parody and potent execution of that idea.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:55 am

Rock wrote:
The Entity

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This movie technically falls into the same genre as Poltergeist and the like, and it’s a pretty effective example, using a combination of shadowy ‘Scope cinematography and assaultive scoring as a reliable source of jolts. (The Peter Tscherkassky short film Outer Space reshapes these pieces into an experience of purer unease, but one which still retains the qualities of the original film.) But what I think makes it stand out from other such films is Barbara Hershey’s performance, which is weightier, more mature and fearless than might be expected from a genre that exists primarily to offer thrills and chills. (It’s also at times a bracingly physical performance, which the Tscherkassky short emphasizes alongside the film’s audiovisual elements.) Her work almost does justice to the psychosexual angles that the movie raises but doesn’t quite follow through on satisfactorily (and at the very least makes the movie feel less sleazy), and suggests an ambition not fully realized in the finished product. The most fully developed character aside from Hershey’s is the sympathetic yet skeptical psychologist played by Ron Silver, while the ghostbuster types relished in Poltergeist and the films of James Wan come off as afterthoughts, perfunctory and presented with little affection. Even though Silver’s character is shown to be wrong, the movie seems to take his side dramatically, favouring human emotion even if at odds with its genre requirements. At a base level these movies tap into a fear that the safety offered by domesticity will prove fleeting, and the climax here, set in a mockup of the heroine’s home that’s supposed to serve as a trap for the ghost, plays both like parody and potent execution of that idea.
I've never really known how I feel about this movie. It is probably due for a rewatch. I can recall thinking there was a genuine sense of dread during the early build up of Hershey's ordeal, but then the whole film collapsed into some pseudo-science bullshit by the time it finished. Your take on the end makes me feel that maybe I was too reductive towards it.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rumpled » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:23 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Also, what film was it in?
I fast forwarded through uninvited and ghost breakers, house on haunted and many more..

But to no avail, the film it was shown in was Bad Girls From Valley High

I figured it must be famous-ish as they always show a famous-ish horror film on the tv in films?
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by MadMan » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:51 pm

Stu wrote:Er, well...

*bites tongue*
:D
From what I keep hearing, people either loved it or hated it. No inbetween.

Oh and good discussion about Sleepaway Camp, folks. I prefer the second one but that one didn't have an impact ending like the first one.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rumpled » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:30 pm

Found it...


Oh Takoma how embarrassing we've both seen it!!! :P


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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Jinnistan » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:28 pm

I haven't seen Amazing Mr. X, but that clip does look familiar.

The transluscent FX looks like Uninvited (probably the same technique), but that actress is not Gail Russell. Actually, it looked more like Jane Russell, but I don't remember her doing any horror.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rumpled » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:32 pm

Jinnistan wrote:I haven't seen Amazing Mr. X, but that clip does look familiar.

The transluscent FX looks like Uninvited (probably the same technique), but that actress is not Gail Russell. Actually, it looked more like Jane Russell, but I don't remember her doing any horror.
She's Lynn Bari

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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:20 am

Rumpled wrote:Found it...


Oh Takoma how embarrassing we've both seen it!!! :P


Image
Is that the one where he's the
fake psychic
?
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Stu » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:09 am

MadMan wrote:From what I keep hearing, people either loved it or hated it. No inbetween.
I didn't hate Hereditary or anything, but I was rather disappointed in the direction it went in during the 2nd half, and the overall film was definitely my most disappointing cinematic experience of 2018, relative to expectations. But, it is fortunate that I checked out the AV Club's recent posting of the trailer for Ari Aster's next project, as it lead me to a link to this older interview they did with him, which has some particularly telling quotes that reveal how his film eventually turned a meaningless, undisciplined mish-mash of elements lifted from other, better films:
AV Club: It sounds like the way you constructed the film was very reference-heavy. With this film, or with anything that you’re making, do you start with story or do you start with imagery?

Ari Aster: I usually start with images and set pieces, and then from there I build a general story that can tie those things together.

AVC: There’s recurring imagery of decapitation in the film. Does that have some kind of significance for you?

AA: Nothing that I could articulate in a way that would be satisfying, or would help the film. I think it’s better to leave that to the viewer.

AVC: The thing that really knocked me for a loop was [redacted] early on in the film. It reminded me of Psycho, where Janet Leigh dies partway through and you’re just like, “What the hell is going to happen now?” How did that work for you in terms of story?

Ari: I mean, Psycho was the reference for that. Another reference was In The Bedroom—that was another film we were talking about—which also does something similar.

Ari: ...we’ve established a few things with Charlie. She seems to be like a variation on the bad seed character. She’s a update on Damien, right? From The Omen.

Ari: ...there’s this brilliant Polish film by Andrzej Wajda called Ashes And Diamonds [from 1958] that has a very striking image film of an upside-down crucifix that has a very specific, simple, steel-pronged halo. And I just ripped that off.
All his words, not mine :oops:
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rumpled » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:18 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Is that the one where he's the
fake psychic
?
Yeah thats why i took so long to find it.. i kept looking up ghosty ones
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:02 pm

Stu wrote:I didn't hate Hereditary or anything, but I was rather disappointed in the direction it went in during the 2nd half, and the overall film was definitely my most disappointing cinematic experience of 2018, relative to expectations. But, it is fortunate that I checked out the AV Club's recent posting of the trailer for Ari Aster's next project, as it lead me to a link to this older interview they did with him, which has some particularly telling quotes that reveal how his film eventually turned a meaningless, undisciplined mish-mash of elements lifted from other, better films:
All his words, not mine :oops:
Well, I did really like the movie except for 2 moments I thought were significant mis-steps but I can tell you, none of that interview bothers me it actually sounds like he's just being a more honest version of every filmmaker ever, especially genre filmmakers.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:12 pm

Wooley wrote:none of that interview bothers me it actually sounds like he's just being a more honest version of every filmmaker ever, especially genre filmmakers.
Yeah. Re-appropriating ideas and iconography from other works of art is standard and unavoidable. What matters is if the artist who is lifting these things makes anything of their own from them. The whole idea of 'good artists copy, great artists steal' is more than applicable here. One could argue over whether or not Aster was more of a copyist than a thief, but acknowledging that he did these things is hardly much of a crime.

Personally, I'm not going to go so far as to say Aster is a great artist based on this one movie, but what he did with Hereditary, and his mix of influences, is a great deal better than simply transcribing the work of others. Hereditary is more than the sum of its borrowed parts. It's a pretty great movie no matter how often people want to trace the lineage of the movies images back to other possibly better movies as their argument.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:29 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Yeah. Re-appropriating ideas and iconography from other works of art is standard and unavoidable. What matters is if the artist who is lifting these things makes anything of their own from them. The whole idea of 'good artists copy, great artists steal' is more than applicable here. One could argue over whether or not Aster was more of a copyist than a thief, but acknowledging that he did these things is hardly much of a crime.

Personally, I'm not going to go so far as to say Aster is a great artist based on this one movie, but what he did with Hereditary, and his mix of influences, is a great deal better than simply transcribing the work of others. Hereditary is more than the sum of its borrowed parts. It's a pretty great movie no matter how often people want to trace the lineage of the movies images back to other possibly better movies as their argument.
Agreed.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:34 pm

Image
Hey, I feel like somebody around here mentioned this somewhat recently, is this a slasher I should add to my list? It doesn't have to be a great one, or even good, just better than The Prowler and Prom Night.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Captain Terror » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:08 pm

Wooley wrote:
Image
Hey, I feel like somebody around here mentioned this somewhat recently, is this a slasher I should add to my list? It doesn't have to be a great one, or even good, just better than The Prowler and Prom Night.
I watched it last October. I won't say whether it's good or not because my opinions about slashers are worthless (I kinda liked The Prowler, for example). But I would be interested in hearing what someone else thinks about it, because I do have some opinions about this one.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:09 pm

Stu wrote:I didn't hate Hereditary or anything, but I was rather disappointed in the direction it went in during the 2nd half, and the overall film was definitely my most disappointing cinematic experience of 2018, relative to expectations. But, it is fortunate that I checked out the AV Club's recent posting of the trailer for Ari Aster's next project, as it lead me to a link to this older interview they did with him, which has some particularly telling quotes that reveal how his film eventually turned a meaningless, undisciplined mish-mash of elements lifted from other, better films:
All his words, not mine :oops:
Avoided the Predator, huh?
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:03 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:Avoided the Predator, huh?
Think most of us figured that wasn't a grenade worth falling on.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Captain Terror » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:56 pm

Rumpled wrote:Found it...


Oh Takoma how embarrassing we've both seen it!!! :P
Dang, even when there's only one GIF to guess I still lose the game. :x
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:29 pm

DaMU wrote:
Think most of us figured that wasn't a grenade worth falling on.
It's one of those things that's so much worse than you can possibly imagine that even if your expectations are at ground level, it causes the ground to collapse into a pit of disappointment, stupidity and a complete misunderstanding of autism. The Predator is basically the later career of Jenny McCarthy.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:44 pm

Rumpled wrote:
Yeah thats why i took so long to find it.. i kept looking up ghosty ones
I knew the image (and specifically the ghostly figure) looked familiar. SIGH.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Stu » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:04 am

Wooley wrote:Well, I did really like the movie except for 2 moments I thought were significant mis-steps but I can tell you, none of that interview bothers me it actually sounds like he's just being a more honest version of every filmmaker ever, especially genre filmmakers.
What were those moments you didn't like, pray tell? And as for your other points, it's kind of an "in the eye of the beholder" deal; if you liked Hereditary in the first place, then his comments just make it seem like he's a filmmaker who's absolutely open about his creative process, one who respects his audience's ability to think for themselves, and is refreshingly honest about the sources of his cinematic influences, but if you didn't, then the interview paints him as director who refuses to elaborate on his film's deeper meanings, and tries to give off the illusion of depth by completely leaving any interpretations up to the audience in order to get them to chase their own tails in finding enlightenment in places where there never was any, as (I suspect) essentially all of the film's more horrifying motifs were just there because he thought they would be "scary" (which I didn't find them to be just that, even), and that was the entirety of his thought process when making the film, so they would serve as another example of him being much more interested in arbitrarily cramming in as many random, wannabe "spooky" moments and tiresome Horror cliches/ elements lifted from other movies into one film as possible, rather than making a well-paced, measured, cohesive overall cinematic experience to deliver those scares in. I fall into the latter camp, as you can see.
crumbsroom wrote:Yeah. Re-appropriating ideas and iconography from other works of art is standard and unavoidable. What matters is if the artist who is lifting these things makes anything of their own from them. The whole idea of 'good artists copy, great artists steal' is more than applicable here. One could argue over whether or not Aster was more of a copyist than a thief, but acknowledging that he did these things is hardly much of a crime.

Personally, I'm not going to go so far as to say Aster is a great artist based on this one movie, but what he did with Hereditary, and his mix of influences, is a great deal better than simply transcribing the work of others. Hereditary is more than the sum of its borrowed parts. It's a pretty great movie no matter how often people want to trace the lineage of the movies images back to other possibly better movies as their argument.
I'm not saying that Aster's reappropriations is some major, unprecedented cinematic transgression, as, like you said, a certain amount of that in is inevitable in even the most original of films, it's just that I felt that Aster didn't really put any sort of new spin on most of Hereditary's familiar elements, or even just use them in any sort of traditional-but-still-fundamentally effective way, but instead played a lot of them in a manner that was both incredibly unimaginative and laughably overwrought.

I also didn't see much skill or thought in the way he mixed his influences together in the film, as it felt to me like he just threw as much vague "Horror stuff" as he could at us one-right-after-another, and hoped that would somehow end up coalescing into a coherent overall experience, but I already mentioned that in my old write-up, so I'll just clarify that the Horror cliches in Hereditary weren't the fundamental deal-breaker for me (although the sheer amount of them in one movie certainly didn't help), but that, in light of my disappointment with the underlying excessive tone and approach of the overall film, their presence in Hereditary bothered me more than they would've in a film I otherwise liked. I mean, even my favorite Horror movie ever, Alien, has a couple of jump scares that I think are kind of cheap (Jonesy jumping out from the vent, anyone?), but they don't bother me as much as they could've otherwise because the rest of the movie is done with such incredible skill, balance, and restraint, and the rest of it is full of moments like when Captain Dallas is stuck in the Nostromo's ventiliation shafts, and the camera slowly zooms in on Ash's face as he makes that look, which is far creepier than most of the actual "scary" parts in Hereditary.
ThatDarnMKS wrote:Avoided the Predator, huh?
I sure did :D
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Captain Terror » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:29 pm

Watched Amer last night. This is my first Cattet/Forzani film and I am 100% onboard with this nonsense. :up: Holy cow that hit all of my sweet spots.
Gonna check out their other films this weekend.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Captain Terror » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:33 pm

Stu wrote:I'm not saying that Aster's reappropriations is some major, unprecedented cinematic transgression, as, like you said, a certain amount of that in is inevitable in even the most original of films, it's just that I felt that Aster didn't really put any sort of new spin on most of Hereditary's familiar elements, or even just use them in any sort of traditional-but-still-fundamentally effective way, but instead played a lot of them in a manner that was both incredibly unimaginative and laughably overwrought.
My only rebuttal here is that as someone that watches probably 3 horror films per week year-round, at no time during Hereditary did I think "Oh no, not this again!" My tolerance for formula is pretty low at this point, so I'd say his spin was new enough for me, regardless of the various influences.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Stu » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:28 pm

Captain Terror wrote: My only rebuttal here is that as someone that watches probably 3 horror films per week year-round, at no time during Hereditary did I think "Oh no, not this again!" My tolerance for formula is pretty low at this point, so I'd say his spin was new enough for me, regardless of the various influences.
Well, like I said, if I had enjoyed the basic approach of Hereditary, I'm sure the familiar tropes would have bothered me much less, but I didn't, so they did; hopefully, Midsommar will be better in both regards (speaking of which, it seems like the screenplay for it just leaked online recently...: )
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:50 pm

My big thing with Hereditary (which has some incredible stuff in it and which I'd recommend, so no dark shade) was that
I felt like the hero, such as he was, succumbed a little too quickly to "death march" syndrome. A similar thing happened to Sheri Moon Zombie in the psychedelic Lords of Salem, which had a similar Rosemary bent to it. I can't help but lose engagement once the hero is just reacting to things in the final act. It's plausible to the situation, plausible to the character, clearly meant to evince helplessness and the crushing pull of fate, but it also frustrates me. Part of the issue, for me, is that Rosemary Woodhouse fought every step of the way. She confronts the people conspiring against her, she takes a knife to them, she keeps trying to figure it out, she spits in her husband's face, she ultimately finds a way to even accept what's happened, dealing with it on her own terms. This may be a personal thing, but I'm less interested in people hypnotized by the gravity of fate, more interested in people who fight it every inch of the way. The Rapture is one of my favorite movies.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:41 pm

Captain Terror wrote: My only rebuttal here is that as someone that watches probably 3 horror films per week year-round, at no time during Hereditary did I think "Oh no, not this again!" My tolerance for formula is pretty low at this point, so I'd say his spin was new enough for me, regardless of the various influences.
I agree.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:45 pm

DaMU wrote:My big thing with Hereditary (which has some incredible stuff in it and which I'd recommend, so no dark shade) was that
I felt like the hero, such as he was, succumbed a little too quickly to "death march" syndrome. A similar thing happened to Sheri Moon Zombie in the psychedelic Lords of Salem, which had a similar Rosemary bent to it. I can't help but lose engagement once the hero is just reacting to things in the final act. It's plausible to the situation, plausible to the character, clearly meant to evince helplessness and the crushing pull of fate, but it also frustrates me. Part of the issue, for me, is that Rosemary Woodhouse fought every step of the way. She confronts the people conspiring against her, she takes a knife to them, she keeps trying to figure it out, she spits in her husband's face, she ultimately finds a way to even accept what's happened, dealing with it on her own terms. This may be a personal thing, but I'm less interested in people hypnotized by the gravity of fate, more interested in people who fight it every inch of the way. The Rapture is one of my favorite movies.
Well, in LoS,
it's actually a very sudden change, as a direct result of the ritual that's basically performed on her at that point in the movie. And then the trick is that everyone assumes she's just slipped back into her addiction so there's more of a head-shaking than anyone actually trying to figure out what's wrong with her.
As opposed to Hereditary,
where he just never seems to recover from feeling like he killed his sister. And then as his mother goes crazy/gets possessed, she just piles on him harder and harder.
I'm not sure what my point was here.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:07 pm

DaMU wrote:My big thing with Hereditary (which has some incredible stuff in it and which I'd recommend, so no dark shade) was that
I felt like the hero, such as he was, succumbed a little too quickly to "death march" syndrome. A similar thing happened to Sheri Moon Zombie in the psychedelic Lords of Salem, which had a similar Rosemary bent to it. I can't help but lose engagement once the hero is just reacting to things in the final act. It's plausible to the situation, plausible to the character, clearly meant to evince helplessness and the crushing pull of fate, but it also frustrates me. Part of the issue, for me, is that Rosemary Woodhouse fought every step of the way. She confronts the people conspiring against her, she takes a knife to them, she keeps trying to figure it out, she spits in her husband's face, she ultimately finds a way to even accept what's happened, dealing with it on her own terms. This may be a personal thing, but I'm less interested in people hypnotized by the gravity of fate, more interested in people who fight it every inch of the way. The Rapture is one of my favorite movies.
You're referring to when he...
died falling out the window and Paimon take control of his body as shown by the light?
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:51 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote: You're referring to when he...
died falling out the window and Paimon take control of his body as shown by the light?
No, prior to that. My memory of the film is that a lot of his scenes during the final leg of the film (maybe the back 40 minutes) are either reactive witness or passive witness. I'm sure this is partly because of the narrative juke of Toni Collette being the ostensible protagonist for so long, but I found myself getting listless before the window scene. IIRC, he clicks his tongue after getting up after the broken window, so it's fairly clear that "passivity" from that point on isn't really passivity. (i.e. to the best of my memory, my reaction preceded that beat.)
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:00 am

Wooley wrote:Well, in LoS,
it's actually a very sudden change, as a direct result of the ritual that's basically performed on her at that point in the movie. And then the trick is that everyone assumes she's just slipped back into her addiction so there's more of a head-shaking than anyone actually trying to figure out what's wrong with her.
I get what you're saying, that there's clear narrative reasoning for that shift in behavior. It's just that I, personally, as a viewer, tend to have a negative reaction to that sort of shift in a lead character's behavior. Maybe, and I'm just spitballing here, it's that I want someone to be fighting on behalf of what positive forces exist in the movie's universe. Whether it's the lead or even supporting cast. It feels too contrived to me when good people spend a protracted amount of time on-screen "succumbing" and villainous forces are omniscient and pushing them into hell every step of the way.

Maybe another example is The Wicker Man.
The hero fights and fights and fights, and even in the end, when he knows he's lost, he sings a defiant hymn. That keeps me more engaged. And ironically, it also comes off more deeply felt in its tragedy, since we then watch as his defiant hymn does fuck-all, and we're forced to consider the limits of our own ideologies and belief systems and how useless they might be.
I don't know if this is making any sense. It's Friday, and it's been a strange and exhausting week.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:21 pm

DaMU wrote:
I get what you're saying, that there's clear narrative reasoning for that shift in behavior. It's just that I, personally, as a viewer, tend to have a negative reaction to that sort of shift in a lead character's behavior. Maybe, and I'm just spitballing here, it's that I want someone to be fighting on behalf of what positive forces exist in the movie's universe. Whether it's the lead or even supporting cast. It feels too contrived to me when good people spend a protracted amount of time on-screen "succumbing" and villainous forces are omniscient and pushing them into hell every step of the way.

Maybe another example is The Wicker Man.
The hero fights and fights and fights, and even in the end, when he knows he's lost, he sings a defiant hymn. That keeps me more engaged. And ironically, it also comes off more deeply felt in its tragedy, since we then watch as his defiant hymn does fuck-all, and we're forced to consider the limits of our own ideologies and belief systems and how useless they might be.
I don't know if this is making any sense. It's Friday, and it's been a strange and exhausting week.
Yes, thank you, that was what I was trying to say. And yes, I think you made perfect sense.
And I hear what you're saying but I just didn't think that was the narrative that was being told, this was a different story not a lesser one. This is how grief goes, not the movie version. I know a couple whose daughter died. They loved each other deeply and had a joyous home. After the death, they hardly spoke, to each other or anyone else. They drifted apart very quietly and seemed to live in the same house simply because that was the location at which each of them resided until he quietly had a meaningless affair and they quietly split and she moved away. Their life was not a movie. I was glad to see a movie that represented that reality.
I also thought, while I didn't think he was the lead character at all, it was Collette, that the way he behaved in the second half of the movie was consistent with who he appeared to be in the first half of the movie, in the context of what was happening. He did not seem like a strong kid and didn't seem like the kind who would find any internal strength to fight, of course making him a great target for forces.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:02 pm

DaMU wrote:
No, prior to that. My memory of the film is that a lot of his scenes during the final leg of the film (maybe the back 40 minutes) are either reactive witness or passive witness. I'm sure this is partly because of the narrative juke of Toni Collette being the ostensible protagonist for so long, but I found myself getting listless before the window scene. IIRC, he clicks his tongue after getting up after the broken window, so it's fairly clear that "passivity" from that point on isn't really passivity. (i.e. to the best of my memory, my reaction preceded that beat.)
Okay. Just wanted to make sure that it wasn't the aforementioned scene driving that complaint because, while I figured you'd have picked up on that, I've seen multiple people seemingly miss that element online.

He is fairly passive so I don't feel compelled to defend that much but I do want to offer a couple of counterpoints:
Every time he tried to take agency of his life, he pushes the cult's agenda. He tries to save his sister and accidentally decapitates her, as they intended. In the climax, he attempts to jump out of the window and kill himself, which I'd argue is quite active, but ultimately, it's what they want so Paimon can occupy his body. His two biggest moments of agency aren't agency at all but the illusion of choice through complete manipulation. I liked how fruitless his attempts were because it emphasizes the themes about inheriting an ill that you have no choice in.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:02 pm

I decided to do a write up for my least favorite film of the year thus far: Velvet Buzzsaw.

https://letterboxd.com/tjjones/film/velvet-buzzsaw/
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Stu » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:05 pm

Last Movie Seen:
John Wick Chapter 3: 8

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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:19 pm

Stu wrote:Aster didn't really put any sort of new spin on most of Hereditary's familiar elements, or even just use them in any sort of traditional-but-still-fundamentally effective way, but instead played a lot of them in a manner that was both incredibly unimaginative and laughably overwrought.

I also didn't see much skill or thought in the way he mixed his influences together in the film, as it felt to me like he just threw as much vague "Horror stuff" as he could at us one-right-after-another, and hoped that would somehow end up coalescing into a coherent overall experience
Overwrought? Sure. Laughable? That's probably where we differ. For me the film's virtues were all about its excess. The excess of emotion spilling out of Collette as she begins to come apart, the veneer of family beginning to tremble beneath the glut of one horrific image after another. I think it is that sensory overload that the film coalesces around. It's a tactile expression of the grief that pulses center of the film like some ugly, poisoned heart. Narratively, in regards to character arcs, the film may not be expressing very much that is new. But it is the intensity with which it starts piling on the horror tropes which sets it apart. There is a poetry to how the film begins to tear itself into pieces. It has a heightened emotional honesty to it which many of my favorite horror films possess, from Possession to Texas Chainsaw. Not that it is quite in that league for me. But it is in the ballpark.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:27 pm

Captain Terror wrote:Watched Amer last night. This is my first Cattet/Forzani film and I am 100% onboard with this nonsense. :up: Holy cow that hit all of my sweet spots.
Gonna check out their other films this weekend.
I will continue to stand on the opening half hour being one of the greatest things to happen in horror this millennium. But I will also keep with my criticism that, as a whole, the movie is just wound too tight. It doesn't give any of its endlessly great images any space to breathe. If the filmmakers just dialled down their visual flourishes occasionally, allowed their more startling moments to really pop, not be so incredibly eager to wow its audience with every second of film they had at their disposal, the film could have been one of the greats in the genre. It's still a pretty incredible experience, but it just becomes so exhausting, I found it hard to stay with it for the entire run time. I want to looooove it, but it just won't let me.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:33 pm

DaMU wrote:My big thing with Hereditary (which has some incredible stuff in it and which I'd recommend, so no dark shade) was that
I felt like the hero, such as he was, succumbed a little too quickly to "death march" syndrome. A similar thing happened to Sheri Moon Zombie in the psychedelic Lords of Salem, which had a similar Rosemary bent to it. I can't help but lose engagement once the hero is just reacting to things in the final act. It's plausible to the situation, plausible to the character, clearly meant to evince helplessness and the crushing pull of fate, but it also frustrates me. Part of the issue, for me, is that Rosemary Woodhouse fought every step of the way. She confronts the people conspiring against her, she takes a knife to them, she keeps trying to figure it out, she spits in her husband's face, she ultimately finds a way to even accept what's happened, dealing with it on her own terms. This may be a personal thing, but I'm less interested in people hypnotized by the gravity of fate, more interested in people who fight it every inch of the way. The Rapture is one of my favorite movies.
It probably says more about my personality than I care to realize, but I am inclined towards horror movies where the fight has been ground out of the characters, and an ugly fate is all that remains.

*shrugs apathetically*
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:37 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:I decided to do a write up for my least favorite film of the year thus far: Velvet Buzzsaw.

https://letterboxd.com/tjjones/film/velvet-buzzsaw/
You have made me never want to see this. If this was your intention, job well done. It sounds like everything I could possibly ever hate condensed into one movie.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:44 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
You have made me never want to see this. If this was your intention, job well done. It sounds like everything I could possibly ever hate condensed into one movie.
Good. I wouldn't wish for anyone to watch this. It's not even so bad it's good.

I did neglect to mention one scene that was nice. A guy walks into the art gallery and sees two trash bags on the floor. He comments about how provocative the art is then is told that the custodians left that there. Because the art was actually trash.

Trash.

Just like this movie. How meta.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Captain Terror » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:52 pm

crumbsroom wrote: It doesn't give any of its endlessly great images any space to breathe. If the filmmakers just dialled down their visual flourishes occasionally, allowed their more startling moments to really pop, not be so incredibly eager to wow its audience with every second of film they had at their disposal, the film could have been one of the greats in the genre.
That's valid, although I can't say I had the same experience. I was pretty exhilarated for the duration. I did find my interest lagging towards the end but I just chalked that up to my personal preference for the earlier Bava-ish stuff as opposed to the stabby Argento stuff at the end.
But I see where you're coming from. I can imagine myself in the future watching specific segments on their own, in a more digestible package.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:52 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
It probably says more about my personality than I care to realize, but I am inclined towards horror movies where the fight has been ground out of the characters, and an ugly fate is all that remains.

*shrugs apathetically*
Yeah, those are... that can be maybe every 15th or 20th film I watch. I have enough unhappy fatalism in my head without one of my reprieves (movies) doubling down on it.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:57 pm

Bought Psycho on Blu, curious to watch it after finally reading (and enjoying) the book.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:25 am

DaMU wrote:
Yeah, those are... that can be maybe every 15th or 20th film I watch. I have enough unhappy fatalism in my head without one of my reprieves (movies) doubling down on it.
Don't get me wrong. I like my films with characters who refuse to quit too. They have their place and I may even prefer them at times. But what I identify with instinctively is an uglier and sadder kind of world view. And not in a nihilistic way. There is a comfort in knowing that hopelessness is not contained only in me. I like to be made aware of all the other mopes out there. Their sad stories are a knowing pat on the back. It's weirdly an ultimately positive thing.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:26 am

DaMU wrote:Bought Psycho on Blu, curious to watch it after finally reading (and enjoying) the book.
Having been reading the Truffaut/Hitchcock book, I've wanted to immediately dive back into all of his films. Psycho, as usual, is at the top of the list.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:53 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Don't get me wrong. I like my films with characters who refuse to quit too. They have their place and I may even prefer them at times. But what I identify with instinctively is an uglier and sadder kind of world view. And not in a nihilistic way. There is a comfort in knowing that hopelessness is not contained only in me. I like to be made aware of all the other mopes out there. Their sad stories are a knowing pat on the back. It's weirdly an ultimately positive thing.
No, I can get that. I think we sorta met at a nexus of understanding on the film anyway, so we can really talk about right now is what we're bringing into the movie with us. :)
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:14 am

I remember hearing Forbidden World given the high-hat around here. This is obviously foolishness.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:32 pm

I'm going to write about it a bit more extensively in Thief's thread, but Maniac Cop 3: Badge of Silence was a handful of interesting/darkly funny moments mired down in an uninspired slog.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:31 pm

Takoma1 wrote:I'm going to write about it a bit more extensively in Thief's thread, but Maniac Cop 3: Badge of Silence was a handful of interesting/darkly funny moments mired down in an uninspired slog.
Watch the making of that comes with the Blu-ray if you can. The fact that it's even remotely functional is a miracle. I really enjoyed it but it's the weakest of the MC films.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:11 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote: Watch the making of that comes with the Blu-ray if you can. The fact that it's even remotely functional is a miracle. I really enjoyed it but it's the weakest of the MC films.
Yeah, I read a bit of trivia about the issues with the film, including the fact that they had to use recycled footage from the older films. This was a streaming watch, so I don't have access to extras.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:40 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Yeah, I read a bit of trivia about the issues with the film, including the fact that they had to use recycled footage from the older films. This was a streaming watch, so I don't have access to extras.
The trivia is fun but its only the tip of the iceberg on that one. The making of really validated my blind buy because while I liked the film, it probably wasn't good enough on its own for the price I paid. The lack of special features in the streaming era really upsets me and makes me fearful of the shift away from physical media.

They basically go into how Japanese producers crushed their original idea for a black lead and Harlem setting (given Cohen's previous work on Black Caeser and Hell Up In Harlem, I wish I could read the treatment), were forced to rework it and start shooting without a script, that Lustig shot all the action scenes and tried to turn in a cut that was only an hour long, and how Cohen refused to actually write anything and tried to transcribe the film over the phone to the producer that had to take over directing duties. It's all very bananas and everyone is VERY upfront and honest in very atypical style.
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