Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Discuss anything you want.
Post Reply
User avatar
Captain Terror
Posts: 1646
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Captain Terror » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:45 pm

Wooley wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:54 am
Good tip.
Honestly, I haven't brought a date to a movie in ages though. Rarely meet people with good taste in movies. Last one I went to a movie with, we saw Dracula ('31) on the big-screen. She loved it. She's rich too. Mighta shoulda married her.
I don't think anyone's going to be in the mood for dinner & cuddles after Midsommar, is all I'm sayin'.

But yeah, I've gotten to the point where I prefer to see movies alone, unless it's a meaningless superhero movie or something. You know what I hate? That instant movie review that you're expected to provide as soon as the credits roll. I need a second to digest this thing, meanwhile the person I'm with just blurts out "well, that sucked!" Like, give me a second, dude. Being my friend must be lots of fun.:) ->
The Onion: Fucking Loser At Movie All By Himself
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:08 am

Captain Terror wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:45 pm
I don't think anyone's going to be in the mood for dinner & cuddles after Midsommar, is all I'm sayin'.

But yeah, I've gotten to the point where I prefer to see movies alone, unless it's a meaningless superhero movie or something. You know what I hate? That instant movie review that you're expected to provide as soon as the credits roll. I need a second to digest this thing, meanwhile the person I'm with just blurts out "well, that sucked!" Like, give me a second, dude. Being my friend must be lots of fun.:) ->
The Onion: Fucking Loser At Movie All By Himself
Yeah, I got these people I'm friends with, a couple and their 18 year-old daughter, and we go see all this stuff together and do really well because we're all pretty finely tuned. We did Only Lovers Left Alive together, The Cabin In The Woods, It Follows, Lake Mungo, Hereditary, The Dead Don't Die, etc., but also No Country For Old Men, The Ballad Of Buster Scruggs, Moonstruck, My Fair Lady, and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.
When you got friends like that, you take your dates for tacos and maybe a band.
lanaroady
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:50 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by lanaroady » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:24 am

Foolish Swami wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:59 am
I've always been partial to A Return To Salem's Lot myself. Unlike the original, Return is at peace with its own campiness and stars none other than the great Michael Moriarty. redadair https://www.redadair.com Ive always considered the movie something of a hidden gem.
All of the situation are equally mention to place a peace :(
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2748
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Jinnistan » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:25 am

lanaroady wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:24 am
All of the situation are equally mention to place a peace :(
Lana? Crying doesn't make you more attractive.

Take a goddamn minute off that road and think about where you are. Do you know where you're coming from? Are you familiar with this "Swami", did he tell you he was a swami? You thought that sounded right? What are these pills? Are you hurting? You're obviously confused. Placing peaces? What else is this situation mentioning to you right now? What letter finger am I holding up? Is it the train or the weather? Which is it? Which direction is your situation placing? I don't think you have the first clue what you've done here, Lana. We fight oil wells here just as well as your roid-sucking bot-eggs or whatever you're hatching. Lana? Swami's pills will not bring you frowny peace, even in an equally situation place. I'd wipe your face but god knows what I'd find. Best of luck on your peaceful situation. I know I am.
User avatar
Torgo
Posts: 1775
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:40 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Torgo » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:09 pm

Here's a movie I should have added to the Criteron Collection Baker's Dozen Game: Kathryn Bigelow's Near Dark.
The DVD is out of print and it's not streaming anywhere. Why is this movie so inaccessible? It's a crying shame.
Last Great Movie Seen
Summertime (Lean, 1955)
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1876
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:20 pm

Torgo wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:09 pm
Here's a movie I should have added to the Criteron Collection Baker's Dozen Game: Kathryn Bigelow's Near Dark.
The DVD is out of print and it's not streaming anywhere. Why is this movie so inaccessible? It's a crying shame.
I had no idea it was OOP. I got the Blu years ago for like $4. My obsessive collecting of physical media pays off again!!!
User avatar
Torgo
Posts: 1775
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:40 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Torgo » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:10 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:20 pm
I had no idea it was OOP. I got the Blu years ago for like $4. My obsessive collecting of physical media pays off again!!!
You'd get more than ten times that back if you ever wanted to sell it on eBay.
Ah, it's a Dino DeLaurentiis production. That explains a lot. Like with Freidkin's Rampage, so many of his productions end up OOP.
Last Great Movie Seen
Summertime (Lean, 1955)
User avatar
Takoma1
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:51 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:21 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:20 pm
I had no idea it was OOP. I got the Blu years ago for like $4. My obsessive collecting of physical media pays off again!!!
I own a copy as well.

*high five*
User avatar
Popcorn Reviews
Posts: 1625
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:22 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:14 am

I saw Hereditary last night (and again this evening) due to all the discussion it and Midsommar have been getting here, and I found it to be impressive. Every single turn of the plot and every new bit of info which was gradually revealed kept getting me more and more engaged with the plot due to the feelings of approaching chaos and dread they strongly conveyed. Then, after I got the gist of the ending, I watched it again and found that the first half hour, which initially struck me as fairly slow moving, was full of multiple subtle details which made me remark "Aha! Now I know what that means" over and over again. In addition, while I initially took issue with Alex Wolff's crying and a couple other artificial moments like it, I realized that the occasional bits of bad acting actually benefited the movie as it helped add to the effect that all the characters were
essentially plastic figurines stuck in a dollhouse world.
If you haven't watched it, do it already. If you haven't rewatched it though, do that as well.

There is a plot point I'm confused on though,
which is the bits of info on how Annie tried to cause a miscarriage and how she almost killed her son while sleepwalking. If the point of these sub-plots were that she was actively trying to fight against the predetermined destiny, shouldn't she then already be aware of this supernatural force before the events of the film even happened? Or, if those incidents mean that she was being controlled by the supernatural force when doing them, this raises the question of how come it took this long to kill the family? If the supernatural force had enough power to manipulate objects/events to kill certain characters and possess them, how come they didn't die much sooner?
User avatar
Takoma1
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:51 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:56 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:14 am
In addition, while I initially took issue with Alex Wolff's crying and a couple other artificial moments like it, I realized that the occasional bits of bad acting actually benefited the movie as it helped add to the effect that all the characters were
essentially plastic figurines stuck in a dollhouse world.
If you haven't watched it, do it already. If you haven't rewatched it though, do that as well.
Oh, I don't know. By the time his character is crying, he's
lost his sister in a horrific accident that is his fault, been enduring the silent hatred of his mother, been frozen out of any real family life, is clearly majorly depressed and sleep deprived, and still dealing with the undercurrent knowledge that his mother once tried to kill him in his sleep.
Frankly, I appreciated the crying. It felt incredibly real to me. It was unrestrained and juvenile and messy and entirely appropriate to the moment.

In fact, I thought that the scene where he
has the panic attack under the bleachers and asks his friend to hold his hand was really powerful.
There is a plot point I'm confused on though,
which is the bits of info on how Annie tried to cause a miscarriage and how she almost killed her son while sleepwalking. If the point of these sub-plots were that she was actively trying to fight against the predetermined destiny, shouldn't she then already be aware of this supernatural force before the events of the film even happened? Or, if those incidents mean that she was being controlled by the supernatural force when doing them, this raises the question of how come it took this long to kill the family? If the supernatural force had enough power to manipulate objects/events to kill certain characters and possess them, how come they didn't die much sooner?
I thought that the implication was that
Annie had some subconscious sense that her children were in danger. She's hesitant to have kids in the first place (which makes sense considering that her father and brother both suffered from (what she thought was) serious mental illness and she may have been worried that any children she would have might suffer a similar fate.

In the dream sequence, after confessing to Peter her attempts to miscarry, she says "I was trying to save you!".

I think that some part of her knew what was happening, but it wasn't something she was consciously aware of.

It's never really explained why it is that this is the time that the coven chooses to act, but I don't think that's a plot hole or a problem. Maybe they needed to wait until Charlie hit puberty. Maybe Annie's mother being sick (and possibly having some form of dementia?) threw a wrench in their plans. Maybe they needed to build a certain level of belief in the family.

The whole thing is delicate, because the grandmother conjured the spirit into Charlie thinking that she would be a boy (we see the mat with the name "Charles" on it). So it's a matter of being able to move the spirit out of Charlie, hold onto that spirit, and then move it into an appropriate male host.
User avatar
Popcorn Reviews
Posts: 1625
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:22 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:26 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:56 am
Oh, I don't know. By the time his character is crying, he's
lost his sister in a horrific accident that is his fault, been enduring the silent hatred of his mother, been frozen out of any real family life, is clearly majorly depressed and sleep deprived, and still dealing with the undercurrent knowledge that his mother once tried to kill him in his sleep.
Frankly, I appreciated the crying. It felt incredibly real to me. It was unrestrained and juvenile and messy and entirely appropriate to the moment.

In fact, I thought that the scene where he
has the panic attack under the bleachers and asks his friend to hold his hand was really powerful.


I thought that the implication was that
Annie had some subconscious sense that her children were in danger. She's hesitant to have kids in the first place (which makes sense considering that her father and brother both suffered from (what she thought was) serious mental illness and she may have been worried that any children she would have might suffer a similar fate.

In the dream sequence, after confessing to Peter her attempts to miscarry, she says "I was trying to save you!".

I think that some part of her knew what was happening, but it wasn't something she was consciously aware of.

It's never really explained why it is that this is the time that the coven chooses to act, but I don't think that's a plot hole or a problem. Maybe they needed to wait until Charlie hit puberty. Maybe Annie's mother being sick (and possibly having some form of dementia?) threw a wrench in their plans. Maybe they needed to build a certain level of belief in the family.

The whole thing is delicate, because the grandmother conjured the spirit into Charlie thinking that she would be a boy (we see the mat with the name "Charles" on it). So it's a matter of being able to move the spirit out of Charlie, hold onto that spirit, and then move it into an appropriate male host.
Thanks for your response.

I appreciate your viewpoint on the acting in mentioning how everything he went through would contribute to how he sounded in that moment. That definitely plays a big part. I also remembered reading how he called his mother "Mommy" as sorta what you described. I can see how his crying is a similar concept to that.

Also, I think I'm satisfied with your answer to my question. I was under the impression that she was likely being possessed when attempting the miscarriage, but I can see now that she was the one who made the conscious decision to do it.
User avatar
Takoma1
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:51 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:09 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:26 am
Also, I think I'm satisfied with your answer to my question. I was under the impression that she was likely being possessed when attempting the miscarriage, but I can see now that she was the one who made the conscious decision to do it.
I actually think that the thing that ultimately
dooms the family is Annie's unwillingness to confront things head-on.

If she didn't want to have a baby, she could have had an abortion. But instead she just, I don't know, eats a lot of sushi and plays a lot of contact sports? From what we see of Steve, it seems unlikely that he would have forced her to keep the baby. (Yeah, I know that the mom was pressuring her, but still).

I think that Annie has some unconscious awareness of what is happening, but because those impulses don't make sense to her she writes them off, like just thinking that the paint thinner incident was sleepwalking.

Likewise, in the very beginning of the film Annie opens up a plot-crucial book from her mother's possessions, and then decides not to read any further. You could argue that the will of the coven causes her to close the book, but I think that Annie just wants to put the past behind her and doesn't want to look.

To be clear: I'm not saying that what happens is Annie's fault. But I think that her desire to distance herself from the past and those negative feelings feeds right into the plot of the coven.

For example: Charlie is a really weird kid, and does not behave appropriately for her age. But they never talk about this! When did the tongue clicking start? That's an elementary-age type of tic, not something you expect from a 13 year old. And with Annie having a strong history of mental illness in her family (two suicides and someone with DID!), you'd think that would be more on their radar.

A lot of times in these kinds of films, people are "foolish" for not believing in the paranormal or in religion. So I liked that in this case it isn't so much a denial of belief as it is a denial of the past.
User avatar
Popcorn Reviews
Posts: 1625
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:22 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:56 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:09 am
I actually think that the thing that ultimately
dooms the family is Annie's unwillingness to confront things head-on.

If she didn't want to have a baby, she could have had an abortion. But instead she just, I don't know, eats a lot of sushi and plays a lot of contact sports? From what we see of Steve, it seems unlikely that he would have forced her to keep the baby. (Yeah, I know that the mom was pressuring her, but still).

I think that Annie has some unconscious awareness of what is happening, but because those impulses don't make sense to her she writes them off, like just thinking that the paint thinner incident was sleepwalking.

Likewise, in the very beginning of the film Annie opens up a plot-crucial book from her mother's possessions, and then decides not to read any further. You could argue that the will of the coven causes her to close the book, but I think that Annie just wants to put the past behind her and doesn't want to look.

To be clear: I'm not saying that what happens is Annie's fault. But I think that her desire to distance herself from the past and those negative feelings feeds right into the plot of the coven.

For example: Charlie is a really weird kid, and does not behave appropriately for her age. But they never talk about this! When did the tongue clicking start? That's an elementary-age type of tic, not something you expect from a 13 year old. And with Annie having a strong history of mental illness in her family (two suicides and someone with DID!), you'd think that would be more on their radar.

A lot of times in these kinds of films, people are "foolish" for not believing in the paranormal or in religion. So I liked that in this case it isn't so much a denial of belief as it is a denial of the past.
Your reading of the mother provides a nice touch of tragedy to the film which I like. It's sad to think that they could of ended up differently had the mother handled the pregnancy/paint thinner incident better.

Relevant to the family playing a part in their fate, I wonder if Charlie's fate could've been avoided or at least delayed if Peter didn't take her with him to the party (which he knew wouldn't be appropriate for her). The coven could've been influencing his decision to take her, but it felt more like he just didn't want to get caught in a lie when he let her come with him (e.g. "Okay, I admit it. There will be alcohol"). Of course, once he was at the party, the chain reaction had already started, but I think the coven was banking for him to allow her to come with him. If he said no or at least went somewhere else instead for dinner, it possibly would've played out differently.
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2748
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Jinnistan » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:57 am

Rock wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:58 am
Image

Pictured: Janson

That's a handsome beast.
User avatar
Takoma1
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:51 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:55 pm

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:56 am
Your reading of the mother provides a nice touch of tragedy to the film which I like. It's sad to think that they could of ended up differently had the mother handled the pregnancy/paint thinner incident better.
I know that the film didn't need a longer run time, but I wish that there had been more space to explore
why Annie went through with the pregnancy (did she share her ambivalence with her husband?) and why she allowed her mother back into her life.

We never learn from Annie if the pregnancy was planned or not. She says "I never wanted to be your mother," which is really different than saying "I never wanted to be A mother."

I would have liked to hear more about why Annie didn't want kids, why she just didn't get an abortion (the family is not particularly religious), and what she was thinking when she tried to induce a miscarriage.

I've known several women who have experienced unexpected pregnancies. It's a really complicated situation, and the fact that supernatural forces may have been involved in both her keeping and trying to miscarry her child is an interesting one. Are there forces that work AGAINST the coven? We don't see any indication of that, but it's an interesting thought.
Relevant to the family playing a part in their fate, I wonder if Charlie's fate could've been avoided or at least delayed if Peter didn't take her with him to the party (which he knew wouldn't be appropriate for her). The coven could've been influencing his decision to take her, but it felt more like he just didn't want to get caught in a lie when he let her come with him (e.g. "Okay, I admit it. There will be alcohol"). Of course, once he was at the party, the chain reaction had already started, but I think the coven was banking for him to allow her to come with him. If he said no or at least went somewhere else instead for dinner, it possibly would've played out differently.
I think that
they are just being pulled toward tragedy, and there's very little choice involved. As Peter correctly notes, it is Annie who pushes Charlie to go to the party, despite her not wanting to go and Peter obviously not wanting to take her. I would say that her impulse to send Charlie to the party feels far more out of the norm than Peter agreeing to take her. If it didn't happen in that moment, it was going to happen at some point. Charlie wanders off on her own. She climbs up into that high treehouse. There were plenty of dangers waiting for her if Peter didn't take her to that party.
User avatar
Apex Predator
Posts: 1017
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:03 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Apex Predator » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:04 pm

Wooley wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:18 am
Yuck.
Not so fast, Woolman.

I really like you. But I'm not going to hear disparagement tossed towards Paranorman, the best horror based animated film since The Nightmare Before Christmas. :up:
User avatar
Takoma1
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:51 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:35 pm

Apex Predator wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:04 pm
Not so fast, Woolman.

I really like you. But I'm not going to hear disparagement tossed towards Paranorman, the best horror based animated film since The Nightmare Before Christmas. :up:
Coraline would like you all to take several seats.
User avatar
Popcorn Reviews
Posts: 1625
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:22 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:20 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:55 pm
I know that the film didn't need a longer run time, but I wish that there had been more space to explore
why Annie went through with the pregnancy (did she share her ambivalence with her husband?) and why she allowed her mother back into her life.

We never learn from Annie if the pregnancy was planned or not. She says "I never wanted to be your mother," which is really different than saying "I never wanted to be A mother."

I would have liked to hear more about why Annie didn't want kids, why she just didn't get an abortion (the family is not particularly religious), and what she was thinking when she tried to induce a miscarriage.

I've known several women who have experienced unexpected pregnancies. It's a really complicated situation, and the fact that supernatural forces may have been involved in both her keeping and trying to miscarry her child is an interesting one. Are there forces that work AGAINST the coven? We don't see any indication of that, but it's an interesting thought.
The suggestion that there could've been forces working against the cult is an interesting concept. While I'm not sure if Aster was going for that, the lack of an explanation for her going through with the pregnancy does make you speculate a bit.

I think that
they are just being pulled toward tragedy, and there's very little choice involved. As Peter correctly notes, it is Annie who pushes Charlie to go to the party, despite her not wanting to go and Peter obviously not wanting to take her. I would say that her impulse to send Charlie to the party feels far more out of the norm than Peter agreeing to take her. If it didn't happen in that moment, it was going to happen at some point. Charlie wanders off on her own. She climbs up into that high treehouse. There were plenty of dangers waiting for her if Peter didn't take her to that party.
The suggestion that
there could've been forces working against the cult is some interesting food for thought. While I'm not sure Aster was going for that, the lack of an explanation for her going through with the pregnancy does make you speculate a bit as to what her reason for not getting an abortion was.

I think you're right with the party. Even if Charlie didn't go to it, the coven probably would've just found a different way to kill her sooner or later.

Your criticisms are valid. As a whole though, I still consider myself to be a huge fan of this one, and I'm curious about Midsommar.
User avatar
Apex Predator
Posts: 1017
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:03 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Apex Predator » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:16 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:35 pm
Coraline would like you all to take several seats.
Coraline was solid, but will have to settle for third.
User avatar
Takoma1
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:51 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:54 am

Apex Predator wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:16 am
Coraline was solid, but will have to settle for third.
Incorrect.

And I honestly had VERY mixed feelings about the whole
"Sure, these powerful men tortured and murdered woman just for being different, but their hearts were in the right place"
message at the end of Paranorman. I felt that it minimized the suffering of the victims in a misguided attempt to navigate the complex question of forgiveness and anger.

I'm not saying that overall the message is incorrect, because there is a point where anger and revenge hold you down rather than pushing you forward, but it all felt a little pat to me, even for a kids' movie.
User avatar
Apex Predator
Posts: 1017
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:03 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Apex Predator » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:20 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:54 am
Incorrect.

And I honestly had VERY mixed feelings about the whole
"Sure, these powerful men tortured and murdered woman just for being different, but their hearts were in the right place"
message at the end of Paranorman. I felt that it minimized the suffering of the victims in a misguided attempt to navigate the complex question of forgiveness and anger.

I'm not saying that overall the message is incorrect, because there is a point where anger and revenge hold you down rather than pushing you forward, but it all felt a little pat to me, even for a kids' movie.
Obviously, I meant third behind Nightmare and ParaNorman.

There's some good nightmare fuel to Coraline and some odd things.

My primary issue with Coraline, besides some predictabiltiy in the third act, was
The message that if you're looking for a family to love you as you are, then you're doing it wrong. You're the one that needs to change your expectations.
I think you kind of hit the point on the head with ParaNorman that
It is a message of forgiveness. Seeking anger and revenge can hold you back from living life or the afterlife and it was Aggie's desire for revenge that has more or less turned her into the thing she hated...the unforgiving townsfolk who punished her for what they considered witchcraft. It is only when Norman, a kid who understood her plight, explains that he knows how she feels on being an outcast, when she allows herself to let go.
User avatar
Takoma1
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:51 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:54 am

Apex Predator wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:20 am
Obviously, I meant third behind Nightmare and ParaNorman.
I would put Coraline ahead of Paranorman, and for me it's not particularly close.

My primary issue with Coraline, besides some predictabiltiy in the third act, was
The message that if you're looking for a family to love you as you are, then you're doing it wrong. You're the one that needs to change your expectations.
But that isn't the message of Coraline, in fact, it's quite the opposite.

The lesson/message of the film is all about
empathy. Coraline is young and immature, and so she believes that her parents should be more doting and indulgent. Coraline's parents don't have a problem with who she is--they are just very busy with work. Coraline's egocentrism (which is appropriate to her age) allows her to be seduced by the Other Mother, who just gives her everything she wants. The tagline of the film is literally "Be careful what you wish for". Coraline doesn't appreciate what her parents have provided for her, and she doesn't realize how much they love her. The Other Mother offers what superficially looks like love (candy, entertainment), but is really just manipulation.

I've read quite a few of Gaiman's novels for children, and they all tend to have a theme of appreciating your family and realizing that they are also people who are living their own lives. The people who love us don't just blindly give us everything we ask for, nor do they always drop everything to put on a show for us when we're bored.
I think you kind of hit the point on the head with ParaNorman that
It is a message of forgiveness. Seeking anger and revenge can hold you back from living life or the afterlife and it was Aggie's desire for revenge that has more or less turned her into the thing she hated...the unforgiving townsfolk who punished her for what they considered witchcraft. It is only when Norman, a kid who understood her plight, explains that he knows how she feels on being an outcast, when she allows herself to let go.
I didn't mind the message, just the perfunctory way in which it was delivered. Also, being an outcast and being murdered are just a little different.
User avatar
Takoma1
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:51 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:27 am

Just finished Personal Shopper.

I was not so engaged by the first half, but my interest definitely grew as the film went on.

Kristen Stewart plays Maureen, a woman who works as a personal shopper for a woman named Kyra. Maureen's twin brother, Lewis, passed away suddenly from a heart attack (Maureen shares the same defect) months earlier.

Both Lewis and Maureen believe themselves to be mediums, and we several times see evidence of Maureen's abilities. Maureen is determined to stay in Paris (despite hating Kyra and her soul-numbing job) because she is waiting for a sign from Lewis. Maureen begins to experience strange events, including strange text messages from an unknown number.

The film is heavy on atmosphere and foreboding, but I did struggle to stay interested in the first half. As more paranormal and thriller elements pop up later in the film, my interest grew. Maybe that's just me being shallow.

The element that I liked most about it has to do with the very end and is insanely spoilery. And part of what I liked was how it connected to two other films with similar ideas/themes. I'll just say that the ending did make me think that a rewatch would be interesting.

Also: when you go in for a medical procedure, even ones that involves your chest (even ones that directly involve your breasts!), you do not lay there on the table topless. I know that seems like a nitpick, but when I see things like that in film it's like, "What are you doing?". But please enjoy this absurdly sexy image I found of a heart ultrasound.

Image

I know someone else in here has seen this one (um, the movie, not the sexy ultrasound stock photo) because I remember a post or two about it. Thoughts?
User avatar
Rock
Posts: 1772
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:48 am
Location: From beyond the moon

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rock » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:21 am

I liked it a lot. I don't know if I have a whole lot to say about it, but I thought Stewart was very good in it and I liked the sense of baggage her character brought to a potential horror movie premise (and to an extent, the "baggage" that Stewart brought to the material). I was also impressed by how the movie built tension around the text messages, as I'm not sure I've seen many movies handle that device nearly as effectively.
"We're outgunned and undermanned. But you know somethin'? We're gonna win. You know why? Superior attitude. Superior state of mind." - Mason Storm
____
Blog!
User avatar
Takoma1
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:51 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:47 am

Rock wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:21 am
I liked it a lot. I don't know if I have a whole lot to say about it, but I thought Stewart was very good in it and I liked the sense of baggage her character brought to a potential horror movie premise (and to an extent, the "baggage" that Stewart brought to the material). I was also impressed by how the movie built tension around the text messages, as I'm not sure I've seen many movies handle that device nearly as effectively.
The biggest shift in the film for me may have been how I felt about the text messages. I honestly wasn't that into them in the beginning. But by the time
she's getting that scary run of them toward the end, I found it really effective and frightening.
And you have to give credit for building something mundane into something more sinister, but just piece by piece.

In terms of the atmosphere and mix of drama and supernatural, it made me think of the film The Eclipse (not the Twilight one). I know that in my review I said that I wasn't as into the film until the thriller stuff kicked in, but I did admire the mix of drama and supernatural elements.
User avatar
DaMU
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:19 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:06 am

Psycho III feels a little more scattershot than II in terms of Perkins' direction (isolated boosts of aesthetic interest are counterbalanced by scenes with clunky staging and an overabundance of ADR) and in terms of his performance as Bates. By this point, his stuttered speech and facial tics almost tip into parody; I don't remember Norman being this anxious and hitchy in the original film or in the prior one.

At the same time, the flick, like the prior two, zeroes in on Norman's internal battle, the Jekyll and Hyde of him, and I so want Norman to get better that I got excited when he had a good date night and despaired when he fell back into old habits. Apart from a very cheap final moment, the battle for Norman's soul comes across as truthful. Secondary characters feel more mixed (especially Fahey's Duane Duke, who stretches credibility in his final scenes as he transitions from sleaze to sweaty manic).

Neither Psycho sequel has come off as genuinely inspired, but similarly neither has felt bad-faith or hacky. I was expecting crap and got a couple of decent thrillers that don't embarrass their origins. Mostly.
NOTE:
The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:26 pm

Apex Predator wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:04 pm
Not so fast, Woolman.

I really like you. But I'm not going to hear disparagement tossed towards Paranorman, the best horror based animated film since The Nightmare Before Christmas. :up:
I dunno, man, I thought it was totally by-the-numbers and disappointing. Not bad, just not nearly as good as I would have expected.
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:27 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:35 pm
Coraline would like you all to take several seats.
Exactly. A much better film than Paranorman.
I was expecting Coraline levels out of Paranorman and I got, as I've said, a paint-by-numbers story.
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:29 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:54 am
Incorrect.

And I honestly had VERY mixed feelings about the whole
"Sure, these powerful men tortured and murdered woman just for being different, but their hearts were in the right place"
message at the end of Paranorman. I felt that it minimized the suffering of the victims in a misguided attempt to navigate the complex question of forgiveness and anger.

I'm not saying that overall the message is incorrect, because there is a point where anger and revenge hold you down rather than pushing you forward, but it all felt a little pat to me, even for a kids' movie.
I also agree with this, part of the reason I thought the film was kinda weak. Almost cheating the narrative that exists prior to the climax in order to tidily tie things up in the end.
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:34 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:27 am
Just finished Personal Shopper.

Also: when you go in for a medical procedure, even ones that involves your chest (even ones that directly involve your breasts!), you do not lay there on the table topless. I know that seems like a nitpick, but when I see things like that in film it's like, "What are you doing?". But please enjoy this absurdly sexy image I found of a heart ultrasound.

Image

Wait, I'm curious how you think a transhthoracic echocardiogram is performed, if not without your shirt on?


Image
User avatar
A Fake Account
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:45 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by A Fake Account » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:28 pm

I'm no doctor, but something seems to be going wrong here.

Image
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1876
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:53 pm

Rewatched High Tension and the Devil's Rejects. The former is so damn close to the perfect slasher film until that ending. Even with the softened blow of knowing and finding the details, it's just so executed in the worst way possible (apparently Luc Besson's advice!). I suspect the ending was only done to avoid being sued by Dean Koontz for similarities to Intensity.

The Devil's Rejects is such an oddball pastiche of homage, ghoul's humor, sadism and effective montage. The only thing that didn't age particularly well is the digital violence. The ending is the polar opposite of High Tension in that it is fitting and perfect.

Also, Bill Moseley's voice is eerily similar to Will Forte so I couldn't help but imagine Last Man on Earth-isms into his monstrous acts and jokes. "Boom, still got it."
User avatar
Takoma1
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:51 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:02 pm

Wooley wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:34 pm
Wait, I'm curious how you think a transhthoracic echocardiogram is performed, if not without your shirt on?
With a shirt partially open, or one of those hospital shirts that open in the front, as seen in several images I found online of both men and woman getting the procedure. But just laying on a table with no shirt or cover to hand, full chest exposed while the doctor is accessing only the very far left of her chest? It just looked weird to me. The fact that the scene was just delivering exposition made it seem all the more pointless. Like, at least show some cool images from the scan.
User avatar
Apex Predator
Posts: 1017
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:03 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Apex Predator » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:14 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:53 pm

The Devil's Rejects is such an oddball pastiche of homage, ghoul's humor, sadism and effective montage. The only thing that didn't age particularly well is the digital violence. The ending is the polar opposite of High Tension in that it is fitting and perfect.

Also, Bill Moseley's voice is eerily similar to Will Forte so I couldn't help but imagine Last Man on Earth-isms into his monstrous acts and jokes. "Boom, still got it."
With you on the ending. But not so much on the film itself.

I can appreciate Zombie's tastes towards 70s films and grindhouse cinema. But there's a line between appreciating the genre and being able to create something that would fit into the genre.

Zombie isn't quite there yet, or at least he wasn't there in Rejects.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1876
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:07 pm

Apex Predator wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:14 pm
With you on the ending. But not so much on the film itself.

I can appreciate Zombie's tastes towards 70s films and grindhouse cinema. But there's a line between appreciating the genre and being able to create something that would fit into the genre.

Zombie isn't quite there yet, or at least he wasn't there in Rejects.
How did he fail to create something that fits into grindhouse cinema?
User avatar
Popcorn Reviews
Posts: 1625
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:22 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:56 pm

I saw The Hitcher, and I thought it was pretty good. Rutger Hauer was quite menacing, and I found the effect which his constant tormenting had on Jim, which was largely fleshed out in the final act, to be a shocking and gritty conclusion which I didn't expect to happen.
Nash's death
is one of the most upsetting and brutal sequences I've seen in a while (I mean this in a good way). On the other hand, the tonal shifts from horror to action didn't sit quite well with me as they felt quite tonally off (multi-car pile ups and a crashing helicopter). Fortunately, these moments weren't too frequent and didn't effect my enjoyment of it by too much. I enjoyed my time with this one and I can see myself revisiting this one in the future.

7/10
User avatar
Apex Predator
Posts: 1017
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:03 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Apex Predator » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:37 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:07 pm
How did he fail to create something that fits into grindhouse cinema?
He spends more than enough time referring to 1970s films and not enough time actually making a grindhouse film.

He gets the violence down fine. It's the other aspects of the grindhouse that don't click.

Some of the dialogue clicks, but some of it doesn't.

It honestly works better as torture horror than as grindhouse horror.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1876
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:52 pm

Apex Predator wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:37 pm
He spends more than enough time referring to 1970s films and not enough time actually making a grindhouse film.

He gets the violence down fine. It's the other aspects of the grindhouse that don't click.

Some of the dialogue clicks, but some of it doesn't.

It honestly works better as torture horror than as grindhouse horror.
I've seen enough grindhouse horror to not see much of a distinction from torture horror. Prolonged suffering and agony often come with the territory (every single rape revenge movie ever made).

How does he "refer" to them and not make them?
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:25 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:02 pm
With a shirt partially open, or one of those hospital shirts that open in the front, as seen in several images I found online of both men and woman getting the procedure. But just laying on a table with no shirt or cover to hand, full chest exposed while the doctor is accessing only the very far left of her chest? It just looked weird to me. The fact that the scene was just delivering exposition made it seem all the more pointless. Like, at least show some cool images from the scan.
Well, look at the picture I posted, that's pretty much exactly the image from the movie but with an old man instead of Kristen Stewart.
Here:
ImageImage
ImageImage

Even the cartoon guy in "What To Expect..." has his shirt off.

Image
User avatar
Takoma1
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:51 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:00 am

Wooley wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:25 am
Well, look at the picture I posted, that's pretty much exactly the image from the movie but with an old man instead of Kristen Stewart.
Here:
ImageImage
ImageImage

Even the cartoon guy in "What To Expect..." has his shirt off.

Image
I've had various medical encounters that involved my chest and never was I just laid there (or standing there--mammogram shout out!) topless. Even when you are getting a breast exam they drape the one side and then the other. In the film it's just the two of them alone in the room with no nurse attending. The resource I looked at said that women can wear a gown for the procedure. I'm coming off a series of films with "boobs-centered" framing of scenes where the nudity is not necessary and it's starting to feel like a bad joke. There's nudity in the film later that feels appropriate to the moment and by contrast the scene in the doctor's office stood out to me, both in terms of the incongruity with my own medical experiences and in terms of a shot feeling like it was designed to showcase nudity for reasons that have nothing to do with the character or plot.
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2748
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:21 am

We should all post in the nude tonight.
User avatar
Apex Predator
Posts: 1017
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:03 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Apex Predator » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:29 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:52 pm
I've seen enough grindhouse horror to not see much of a distinction from torture horror. Prolonged suffering and agony often come with the territory (every single rape revenge movie ever made).

How does he "refer" to them and not make them?
The few I've seen feel more or less effortless. The same can't be said for Rejects.

1. Zombie's attempts at humor come across as heavy-handed.
2. His attempt at humanizing the trio mostly fail...and is more something cooked up by modern horror than in the grindhouse era.
3. Grindhouse is as much about sex as violence...yet there's little to find in Rejects.
4.
The concept of cops being just as evil and ruthless as the "good guys" is more of a modern thing than something from the grindhouse era.
5.
Also, the idea of the "bad guys" suddenly gaining a conscience towards the end is more based in modern movie folklore.
User avatar
Apex Predator
Posts: 1017
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:03 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Apex Predator » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:30 am

Also, I'm with Takoma on that photo. It's all too obvious that the hunk is posing.
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2748
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:32 am

Apex Predator wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:30 am
Also, I'm with Takoma on that photo. It's all too obvious that the hunk is posing.
Don't be afraid. This is the Horrorcram.
User avatar
crumbsroom
Posts: 2306
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:45 am

Are we arguing the rules of grindhouse as a genre? Is that even what grindhouse is? Isn't grindhouse just essentially low budget fodder that they could crank out and fill theaters cheaply with? It's no one thing in particular. In essence, aren't we just talking about exploitation films here, which 'grindhouse' is just shorthand for? If so, even if Devil's Rejects isn't solely an exploitation film (for one it's a homage to exploitation films) it's still an exploitation by its very nature.
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1876
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:01 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:45 am
Are we arguing the rules of grindhouse as a genre? Is that even what grindhouse is? Isn't grindhouse just essentially low budget fodder that they could crank out and fill theaters cheaply with? It's no one thing in particular. In essence, aren't we just talking about exploitation films here, which 'grindhouse' is just shorthand for? If so, even if Devil's Rejects isn't solely an exploitation film (for one it's a homage to exploitation films) it's still an exploitation by its very nature.
Way to suck the air out of the response I was about to type up by basically saying what I was going to about grindhouse cinema.

Grindhouse films are varied and diverse, filled with cheap laughs, evil cops and contradictory morality, usually asking you to agree with heinous actions.

Also, no sex in TDR? I didn't get a good look at Sid Haig's balls without their being explicit, gratuitous sex and nudity in that film. One girl spends half the movie naked after having been ripped out of the shower, another gets stripped and molested with a gun, there's the entire detour into a whorehouse and I think I can draw Sherri Moon Zombies behind from memory at this point.
User avatar
Takoma1
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:51 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:42 am

Apex Predator wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:30 am
Also, I'm with Takoma on that photo. It's all too obvious that the hunk is posing.
I think it's one of the funniest things I have ever found on the internet. And it's part of a series! By the time he gets to the stress test he's lost his pants as well! It's like someone decided that medical testing needed to be less intimidating, someone was like "And what if it was also sexy?!" and they just went ahead and did . . . . that.
Jinnistan wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:21 am
We should all post in the nude tonight.
Right, because this whole time we've all been posting fully clothed. :shifty:

Have you guys all seen Baba Yaga? I thought it was kind of dumb (and maybe a bit racist?), but it certainly had its moments.
User avatar
Ergill
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Ergill » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:04 am

Apex Predator wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:30 am
Also, I'm with Takoma on that photo. It's all too obvious that the hunk is posing.
The readings are all off if you don't do an Adonis pose.

*Skinnily Adonises as the soundwave goes clear through my body*
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1876
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:47 am

Baba Yaga the Italian film based on the French comic Valentina? Yeah. I dug it but couldn't help but wish Edwidge Fenech or Nieves Navarro had the lead role. It had me try to track down the comics only to discover they're all horribly OOP.
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:25 am

Jinnistan wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:21 am
We should all post in the nude tonight.
Whaddya mean "tonight"?
Post Reply