Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

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Oxnard Montalvo
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:05 pm

Wooley wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:59 pm
Well, it's not actually good, per se, but I'm not necessarily sorry I watched it. How's that?

I have a friend that would probably be thrilled to know that I want to watch it.

and Sam Neill is always watchable so
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:56 am

Rewatch of Candyman confirms that it is dope and it is nearly perfect.

Also, all of the men in the movie suuuuuuuuuuuck.

As we watched it, I was thinking and then someone else said, "This feels a lot like The Invisible Man." It's true! The lingering shots of hallways and corners. The general arc of the central female protagonist who is
framed for violent actions by a man she knows is there but isn't seen by anyone else, eventually winding up in a mental institution where the male killer offers her freedom if she will be with him.
Someone I was watching with remarked on the score (by Phillip Glass) and this time watching it I was also really struck by how much the music is at the forefront and how well it serves the whole tone of the film. Usually I dislike "intrusive" scores, but in this movie it really works.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:05 am

The Glass score is so key. It helps me believe even more in the underlying mythic elegance/regality of Candyman; that "be my victim" is not an excuse for slaughter but a genuine pledge or bequeathment.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:35 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:56 am
Rewatch of Candyman confirms that it is dope and it is nearly perfect.

Also, all of the men in the movie suuuuuuuuuuuck.

As we watched it, I was thinking and then someone else said, "This feels a lot like The Invisible Man." It's true! The lingering shots of hallways and corners. The general arc of the central female protagonist who is
framed for violent actions by a man she knows is there but isn't seen by anyone else, eventually winding up in a mental institution where the male killer offers her freedom if she will be with him.
Someone I was watching with remarked on the score (by Phillip Glass) and this time watching it I was also really struck by how much the music is at the forefront and how well it serves the whole tone of the film. Usually I dislike "intrusive" scores, but in this movie it really works.
The bolded was something that really struck me on this recent (October) re-watch. The men in this film are awful, but very much in the way we have all seen men be, particularly in a professional setting in that time, or in relationships when there is a significant power-differential.
And that is essential to the themes of the film, in my opinion. In my write-up in my '19 Horrorthon, that is a point I really harp on. It's also the trap that she falls into as it's really in reaction to the way every man in the film condescends to her that she is so determined to trespass into this world in which she does not belong in order to prove herself.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:56 pm

DaMU wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:05 am
The Glass score is so key. It helps me believe even more in the underlying mythic elegance/regality of Candyman; that "be my victim" is not an excuse for slaughter but a genuine pledge or bequeathment.
This time around I really noticed how much the film embraces romance tropes in the interactions between Helen and Candyman. There's literally a part where they embrace and the room spins around them.

Candyman could have just come back and killed a ton of people. His
use of Helen and his desire to have her also be immortalized does suggest something deeper and more poignant about the character.
Wooley wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:35 pm
The bolded was something that really struck me on this recent (October) re-watch. The men in this film are awful, but very much in the way we have all seen men be, particularly in a professional setting in that time, or in relationships when there is a significant power-differential.
And that is essential to the themes of the film, in my opinion. In my write-up in my '19 Horrorthon, that is a point I really harp on. It's also the trap that she falls into as it's really in reaction to the way every man in the film condescends to her that she is so determined to trespass into this world in which she does not belong in order to prove herself.
Right, and that whole power element is something that really hit me this time. When you think about how the men are awful, it is all about power:
1) Her husband who blatantly cheats on her and (intentionally?) undermines her research for her thesis.
2) Her husband's colleague who is incredibly condescending about her thesis.
3) The police detective who won't give her a chance to explain when she is arrested
4) The male orderly who responds to perfectly reasonable questions ("Where are we going?") with sarcasm ("Disneyland!") and physically manhandles her without asking or warning her.
5) The psychiatrist who (sort of fair enough, but still) treats her like she's crazy
6) The "Candyman" who assaults her for being in his territory

Dare I harken back to our conversations about The Witch and specifically how we are supposed to feel about the ending?

Much like
the question of whether or not The Witch has a happy ending, you can kind of see how there's an appeal to what Candyman is offering Helen. She will be immortal, and all of the things that have been done to her (mainly by men) will no longer hurt her. She will be the one who is feared and who has power.
I also think that it's interesting that the main "tellers" of the urban legend are women and a child. For a while I was OBSESSED with reading Snopes.com, and it's really interesting how many urban legends are aimed at women and female behavior. All sorts of urban legends about women experiencing horrible things because they're masturbating, or walking alone in a parking garage, or whatever. Maybe my perception of this is skewed because as a woman I paid more attention to legends that pertained to me, but I can specifically remember being warned about not ever parking next to vans (rape), not going into department store changing rooms alone (kidnapped and sold into sex slavery), and other things of that sort. In the film, the people who are controlled or impacted by the legends are also pretty much all women or children. You do have the
male therapist, but I think that there's that lovely reversal at the end where the male character is slaughtered and discovered by the young woman. In becoming a legend, Helen is now a figure who will terrify men into watching their behavior.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:23 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:56 pm
This time around I really noticed how much the film embraces romance tropes in the interactions between Helen and Candyman. There's literally a part where they embrace and the room spins around them.

Candyman could have just come back and killed a ton of people. His
use of Helen and his desire to have her also be immortalized does suggest something deeper and more poignant about the character.
It's hard for me to not see the movie as a sort of darkly romantic corrective, where Candyman seeks out this specific "victim" because she evokes his lost love. "They will tell stories about us, Helen." It's Candyman, according to his own nightmare logic, fixing the sins of the past. At least, that's been my interpretation over the years.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:01 am

DaMU wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:23 am
It's hard for me to not see the movie as a sort of darkly romantic corrective, where Candyman seeks out this specific "victim" because she evokes his lost love. "They will tell stories about us, Helen." It's Candyman, according to his own nightmare logic, fixing the sins of the past. At least, that's been my interpretation over the years.
Exactly. "It's always been you." Candyman is a monster, but his "human" self wasn't.

It's even true that Candyman was known as a portrait artist, and the way that Helen first really "bonds" with him is when she takes the photo in the abandoned apartment.

But what I also kind of love is that most of Helen's
mythology now centers on upper class and/or white people. It's not the fear of the poor people of Cabrini Green. It's people like Helen's caddish husband who are at risk. And there's that note about how the buildings are the same, just one was spiffed up to make it palatable to white people.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:02 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:01 am
Exactly. "It's always been you." Candyman is a monster, but his "human" self wasn't.

It's even true that Candyman was known as a portrait artist, and the way that Helen first really "bonds" with him is when she takes the photo in the abandoned apartment.

But what I also kind of love is that most of Helen's
mythology now centers on upper class and/or white people. It's not the fear of the poor people of Cabrini Green. It's people like Helen's caddish husband who are at risk. And there's that note about how the buildings are the same, just one was spiffed up to make it palatable to white people.
Of course that I have to say I have another reading of this.
Candyman, the mythical version that Helen has become obsessed with writing about, does not appear in the film until after Helen suffers her assault and head injury at the hands of the real-life Candyman, a simple drug-dealer. She says his name five times in the mirror and nothing happens. Until the assault. Subsequent to that, however, The mythical Candyman then appears to her, and only to her, and murders occur, all of which appear to everyone else as having been committed by Helen.
Long before he ever tells her "It was always you", he actually says to her "Be my victim." Here she is again faced with a man victimizing her in life, but after being continuously defeated by her husband and older male colleagues, then actually physically victimized by (the real) Candyman, she now a mythic one to overcome, which could very much be in her post-trauma head. "It was always you, Helen", coming when it does in the film, can read very much as the voice in her head, the mythic victimizer that only she sees, telling her that it was always her committing the murders. In the end, she overcomes being the victim and becomes the new myth, almost exactly what she aspired to do and even said she would do when confronted with the condescending male academics at dinner when she said she would bury them or leave them in her dust or whatever.
I have come to feel that this is the read on the film, to the degree that it's hard for me not to see it this if I watch it, even if I'm trying to take the movie in a simpler way with the surface story granted as being the total narrative.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:50 am

Wooley wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:02 am
Of course that I have to say I have another reading of this.
Candyman, the mythical version that Helen has become obsessed with writing about, does not appear in the film until after Helen suffers her assault and head injury at the hands of the real-life Candyman, a simple drug-dealer. She says his name five times in the mirror and nothing happens. Until the assault. Subsequent to that, however, The mythical Candyman then appears to her, and only to her, and murders occur, all of which appear to everyone else as having been committed by Helen.
Long before he ever tells her "It was always you", he actually says to her "Be my victim." Here she is again faced with a man victimizing her in life, but after being continuously defeated by her husband and older male colleagues, then actually physically victimized by (the real) Candyman, she now a mythic one to overcome, which could very much be in her post-trauma head. "It was always you, Helen", coming when it does in the film, can read very much as the voice in her head, the mythic victimizer that only she sees, telling her that it was always her committing the murders. In the end, she overcomes being the victim and becomes the new myth, almost exactly what she aspired to do and even said she would do when confronted with the condescending male academics at dinner when she said she would bury them or leave them in her dust or whatever.
I have come to feel that this is the read on the film, to the degree that it's hard for me not to see it this if I watch it, even if I'm trying to take the movie in a simpler way with the surface story granted as being the total narrative.
The one exception that I take to this reading is that
she has a strange "moment" when she's taking the photos in the abandoned apartment. And it's exactly the same as what happens (more seriously) later on in the film when she looks at the photos again. I think that it's important that she has that first moment photographing him and then he first actually appears to her when she revisits her photographs.

I do agree that ultimately her defeat of Candyman is about her reclaiming her autonomy, which has systematically been taken away from her by both the mythic Candyman and her very real tool of a husband.

I think it's interesting and important that Helen is ready to accept her fate and join Candyman, but his desire to sacrifice the baby--and the fact that he lied to her about this intention--is what makes her turn on him. The delivery of her line "You lied to me" echoes so strongly with the feeling of betrayal she's carried since the first scene in her husband's classroom.

One thing that I like about your reading is the idea that women are more likely to be immortalized as victims than as killers. I think that I could easily name off the top of my head many infamous female murder victims--Sharon Tate, Kitty Genevise, the Black Dahlia, etc, but I honestly can't think of the names of any men who were victims of infamous killings. And on the flip side I can rattle off a ton of names of male killers (Gacy, Dahmer, Manson, BTK, Green River Killer), but almost no female names.

The "conventional" relationship here would be him as the killer and her as the victim (just as the "conventional" relationship between her and her husband sees him as the lecturing professor and her putting together a thesis), and this would tie them together forever. But Helen flips the script and makes herself the killer, something that the grateful residents of the Green solidify by bringing her the hook of her defeated foe.
I do think that the killer/victim dynamic is mixed with a series of romantic tropes in some very interesting ways.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:12 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:50 am
The one exception that I take to this reading is that
she has a strange "moment" when she's taking the photos in the abandoned apartment. And it's exactly the same as what happens (more seriously) later on in the film when she looks at the photos again. I think that it's important that she has that first moment photographing him and then he first actually appears to her when she revisits her photographs.

I do agree that ultimately her defeat of Candyman is about her reclaiming her autonomy, which has systematically been taken away from her by both the mythic Candyman and her very real tool of a husband.

I think it's interesting and important that Helen is ready to accept her fate and join Candyman, but his desire to sacrifice the baby--and the fact that he lied to her about this intention--is what makes her turn on him. The delivery of her line "You lied to me" echoes so strongly with the feeling of betrayal she's carried since the first scene in her husband's classroom.

One thing that I like about your reading is the idea that women are more likely to be immortalized as victims than as killers. I think that I could easily name off the top of my head many infamous female murder victims--Sharon Tate, Kitty Genevise, the Black Dahlia, etc, but I honestly can't think of the names of any men who were victims of infamous killings. And on the flip side I can rattle off a ton of names of male killers (Gacy, Dahmer, Manson, BTK, Green River Killer), but almost no female names.

The "conventional" relationship here would be him as the killer and her as the victim (just as the "conventional" relationship between her and her husband sees him as the lecturing professor and her putting together a thesis), and this would tie them together forever. But Helen flips the script and makes herself the killer, something that the grateful residents of the Green solidify by bringing her the hook of her defeated foe.
I do think that the killer/victim dynamic is mixed with a series of romantic tropes in some very interesting ways.
Yes, I do think that particular flip is integral to one of the two main themes of the film. Maybe both.
And, look, I'm not saying that my read is the actual way the movie is and the other way is wrong, what I'm saying is that read is there, without question, you're invited to see it that way or not, but this last time I saw it and thought about it and read about it and wrote about it, I couldn't go back to seeing it as JUST the other way.
Know what I mean?
Whether or not she or Candyman is the real killer in the film (before the final scene) I think is intentionally left up to the audience.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:32 am

Wooley wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:12 am
Yes, I do think that particular flip is integral to one of the two main themes of the film. Maybe both.
And, look, I'm not saying that my read is the actual way the movie is and the other way is wrong, what I'm saying is that read is there, without question, you're invited to see it that way or not, but this last time I saw it and thought about it and read about it and wrote about it, I couldn't go back to seeing it as JUST the other way.
Know what I mean?
Whether or not she or Candyman is the real killer in the film (before the final scene) I think is intentionally left up to the audience.
When you say
"real killer", I do think that it's really unlikely she could have done anything so violent unless she was possessed. So I'm fine saying that a possessed version of her was the killer (as opposed to Candyman appearing, killing someone, and putting the knife in her hand after). But to say that Helen on her own (just because she's been thinking about Candyman) did those killings doesn't sound right to me.

For me, I think that the scene with the therapist makes it more likely that Candyman himself did the killings. It's the only killing we see from start to finish, and she's cuffed to a wheelchair while it happens.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:43 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:32 am
When you say
"real killer", I do think that it's really unlikely she could have done anything so violent unless she was possessed. So I'm fine saying that a possessed version of her was the killer (as opposed to Candyman appearing, killing someone, and putting the knife in her hand after). But to say that Helen on her own (just because she's been thinking about Candyman) did those killings doesn't sound right to me.

For me, I think that the scene with the therapist makes it more likely that Candyman himself did the killings. It's the only killing we see from start to finish, and she's cuffed to a wheelchair while it happens.
No, I mean that after the obsession and the stress she was under, specific to feeling victimized all the time, the psychological trauma and the actual head-trauma, from which she lost consciousness and had her angelic appearance (temporarily) taken from her as well, from the attack actually caused her to have a psychotic break. The ghost Candyman is her delusion and her other self which takes over when she commits these violent acts. She has had enough of society keeping her under its heel and victimizing her and now her brain has actually been injured to boot, and all this manifests into violent action. To me it was actually the scene with the therapist that kinda cinched that reading.
And again, I can't get over the notion that "It Was Always You, Helen" is such an obvious, low-hanging double-entendre there to spell it out for the audience.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:08 pm

Wooley wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:43 am
No, I mean that after the obsession and the stress she was under, specific to feeling victimized all the time, the psychological trauma and the actual head-trauma, from which she lost consciousness and had her angelic appearance (temporarily) taken from her as well, from the attack actually caused her to have a psychotic break. The ghost Candyman is her delusion and her other self which takes over when she commits these violent acts. She has had enough of society keeping her under its heel and victimizing her and now her brain has actually been injured to boot, and all this manifests into violent action. To me it was actually the scene with the therapist that kinda cinched that reading.
And again, I can't get over the notion that "It Was Always You, Helen" is such an obvious, low-hanging double-entendre there to spell it out for the audience.
So then you think that Helen is
subconsciously working with Candyman? Because he definitely exists, as there is no other way to explain how the baby is still alive a full month after being taken from its mother.

I'm not sure that I love Helen being the killer on her own. Among other things, why would Helen lash out at people who are vulnerable (like Bernadette) instead of the people who have been victimizing her?
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Stu » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:42 am

Sorry for the quality of the clip, but all this discussion couldn't help but remind me of one of my favorite FG gags:

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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:07 am

So I watched every Saw film in a binge and I’m not sure any of them were good but they reached a sublime absurdity in the convoluted culmination of their soap operatic plotting that I love the whole. I’m so excited for Spiral and I realize that 2020 must have finally broken me.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:45 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:07 am
So I watched every Saw film in a binge and I’m not sure any of them were good but they reached a sublime absurdity in the convoluted culmination of their soap operatic plotting that I love the whole. I’m so excited for Spiral and I realize that 2020 must have finally broken me.
What did you think of the original Saw?
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by topherH » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:35 pm

I stopped after Saw III but didn't dislike any of them though I didn't see any reason to continue. I considered finishing them when I saw a boxset at WM with 8 movies in it for I believe $20 but I decided not to.
State of Siege |Gavras, 1972| +
Deadpool |Miller, 2016| +
Z |Gavras, 1969| -
The Confession |Gavras, 1970| +
Missing |Gavras, 1982| +
The Revenant |Inarritu, 2015| +
The Hateful Eight |Tarantino, 2015| +

+ Recommended
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:13 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:45 pm
What did you think of the original Saw?
I loved it as a teen but felt I outgrew the series after 3 and never came back to it.

Watching it as an adult, I admire the tenacity of Whannell and Wan in their attempt, but it’s seams from its DTV budget really shows. No one is on screen at the same time, the performances are hammy and contrast poorly with the self serious tone and it’s filled with logic holes and contrivances...

BUT...

You can’t judge Saw by a single film. The way the films mesh together and enhance each other in the most ridiculous and convoluted ways is something to marvel at and each reveal fills in those logic holes and contrivances in the most insane way and I love it. Every time you plausibly ask “How the hell did Jigsaw do that?” a sequel at some point will answer it. And it will be stupid. And it will be amazing.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rock » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:17 am

I'm sort of interested in Spiral for the novelty factor (Chris Rock writing and starring in Saw movie sounds too weird to not give a shot) but I've only seen the first movie and thought it was total ass.
"We're outgunned and undermanned. But you know somethin'? We're gonna win. You know why? Superior attitude. Superior state of mind." - Mason Storm
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rock » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:25 am

I rewatched Land of the Dead over the last few days after I saw it pop up on Netflix. There was a slight nostalgia factor as I'd discovered Romero during high school and this was one of the first ones I saw, mixed with recognizing one of the locations (the lobby of Fiddler's Green is an office building near my work, although the gallery glimpsed in the movie is now in another location), and really vibing with the outbreak vibes, evil real estate tycoon and the desire to get back at your capitalist overlords by stealing their megatruck and threatening to blow them to smithereens. The Hopper and Leguizamo performances are probably the high points and said megatruck is a neat element to spice up the zombie carnage. The satire is very Bush era and not exactly subtle, but like I said, it rang true for me because a lot of what the film targets hasn't changed all that much.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:33 am

Rock wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:17 am
I'm sort of interested in Spiral for the novelty factor (Chris Rock writing and starring in Saw movie sounds too weird to not give a shot) but I've only seen the first movie and thought it was total ass.
The first might actually be my least favorite. It’s the most self serious of the franchise and least “fun.” The best films in the franchise are likely those directed by Bousman (2, 3 and 4) and he’s returning for Spiral. It’s also written by the writers of Jigsaw with is by far the most competently made of the entire franchise and actually looks like a real movie (there’s a grimy DTV quality to the entire franchise).

Keep in mind, I don’t think any of the films individually are particularly good. They are, however, immensely entertaining and are in love with their own mythology in a truly admirable way. Essentially, each film is a piece of puzzle and when they’re all together, it’s spectacularly bat-shit wonderful.

Each film on its own? 2 or 3 stars out of 5.

Altogether? 5/5 for sheer bananas entertainment.

It may be my ultimate guilty pleasure.

The fact that I went from moderately interested in Spiral (enough to grab the previous films for $8) to one of my most anticipated films of the year makes me feel funny but damn it, I am.

I have terrible taste.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:05 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:33 am

I have terrible taste.
The only remedy for good taste is bad taste, so don't feel too bad. You're on the right track.

I will agree that the first Saw is the worst of the franchise. I haven't seen any of the other ones, but I know it's impossible to be worse than that.

I once vaguely considered watching the sequels. A friend made them sound vaguely interesting. But, vaguely, I didn't ever bother.

Or did I?
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by crumbsroom » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:11 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:05 am
Or did I?
I definitely didn't
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:12 am

The convolution was what wore me out. I thought 1, 2, and 3 were bad but sometimes good but finally bad, and then 4 got rid of the good and Mobius stripped back into the others, and man, sometimes you become really acutely aware of the finite amount of time you have on this planet.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:19 am

Rock wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:25 am
I rewatched Land of the Dead over the last few days after I saw it pop up on Netflix. There was a slight nostalgia factor as I'd discovered Romero during high school and this was one of the first ones I saw, mixed with recognizing one of the locations (the lobby of Fiddler's Green is an office building near my work, although the gallery glimpsed in the movie is now in another location), and really vibing with the outbreak vibes, evil real estate tycoon and the desire to get back at your capitalist overlords by stealing their megatruck and threatening to blow them to smithereens. The Hopper and Leguizamo performances are probably the high points and said megatruck is a neat element to spice up the zombie carnage. The satire is very Bush era and not exactly subtle, but like I said, it rang true for me because a lot of what the film targets hasn't changed all that much.
Nice! I know it's not the caliber of his best work, but I still find it rewatchable. Moves at a fast clip, escalates to a fun climax, agreed about Hopper and Leguizamo.

And it does hold up remarkably well on a satirical standpoint. Hell, the real estate magnate and his faith in the wall and hatred for Latinos is crazily prescient.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:01 am

DaMU wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:12 am
The convolution was what wore me out. I thought 1, 2, and 3 were bad but sometimes good but finally bad, and then 4 got rid of the good and Mobius stripped back into the others, and man, sometimes you become really acutely aware of the finite amount of time you have on this planet.
Embrace the convolution. Revel in how they approach every single character and element and think that they are befitting of their own complex back story that ties directly into everything that happened before. Ever wonder “why’d Jigsaw lay so still?” or “how’d he build that bear trap” or “how could he lift that heavy set victim?” Well, this franchise makes damn sure those questions will be answered 4 maybe 5 movies later.


Plus, the traps reach a Rube Goldbergian level of convolution to match, which makes Jigsaw’s incessant need to explain the intricacies of them hysterical. Like the dad that reads every single line of Monopoly instruction before allowing anyone to move a piece.

I think anyone interested should binge them. Don’t watch one or space them out. Rip through them like a can of pringles. Pop that top and don’t stop till you hear “game over” for the 15th time then pump your fist and know, you’re now a better person for having survived with a true appreciation for life.

Saw is life.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:09 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:01 am
Embrace the convolution. Revel in how they approach every single character and element and think that they are befitting of their own complex back story that ties directly into everything that happened before. Ever wonder “why’d Jigsaw lay so still?” or “how’d he build that bear trap” or “how could he lift that heavy set victim?” Well, this franchise makes damn sure those questions will be answered 4 maybe 5 movies later.


Plus, the traps reach a Rube Goldbergian level of convolution to match, which makes Jigsaw’s incessant need to explain the intricacies of them hysterical. Like the dad that reads every single line of Monopoly instruction before allowing anyone to move a piece.

I think anyone interested should binge them. Don’t watch one or space them out. Rip through them like a can of pringles. Pop that top and don’t stop till you hear “game over” for the 15th time then pump your fist and know, you’re now a better person for having survived with a true appreciation for life.

Saw is life.
Pass.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:19 am

“This shit’ll make you a sexual tyrannosaurus. Just like me.” Jesse the Body Ventura preaching the book of Saw.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:27 am

I have to say I'm a bit surprised by the responses you guys have about the original Saw. Then again, I only saw it once several years ago and I don't remember a whole lot about it. I thought the ending was a really disturbing concept and it was probably part of why it left such a big impact on me, despite it raising more questions than answers.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:28 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:27 am
I have to say I'm a bit surprised by the responses you guys have about the original Saw. Then again, I only saw it once several years ago and I don't remember a whole lot about it. I thought the ending was a really disturbing concept and it was probably part of why it left such a big impact on me, despite it raising more questions than answers.
Then you’re in an even better position to brave these treacherous waters!
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:36 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:28 am
Then you’re in an even better position to brave these treacherous waters!
Oh, I already did. Somehow, I managed to stay afloat to the end.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:45 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:36 am
Oh, I already did. Somehow, I managed to stay afloat to the end.
You watched all 8?
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:56 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:45 am
You watched all 8?
Yep.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:22 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:56 am
Yep.
Thoughts on it as a whole? Personal ranking?
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:54 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:22 am
Thoughts on it as a whole? Personal ranking?
I'd have to revisit them again in order to be able to properly rank the films, but according to IMDb, my ratings for them are as follows:

1: 7/10
2: 6/10
3: 4/10
4: 2/10
5: 3/10
6: 3/10
7: 2/10
8: 3/10

A couple of these seem a point or two low in retrospect, but I'd say this is close to how I feel about them. One thing I remembered about them was that their twist endings had less of an impact on me as I progressed further into the franchise. As I said earlier, the twist in the original Saw made a huge impact on me. Yes, it raised more questions than answers, but since I wasn't aware of the other twists, my reaction to it was "Well, at least it's still a disturbing concept, so I'm okay with letting it go this once." After a while though, I grew less and less interested in them as I went on due to how they strangely felt predictable to a degree since it was a staple for the films to end with a betrayal or a surprise villain. I quickly got to a point where I came to expect them, and none of them managed to give me the same reaction I got from the twist from the first film. Like DaMU, I was also worn out by the increasing usages of convolution. Finally, unlike the deaths in the Final Destination films, the traps didn't remain consistently interesting as the film progressed and the memorable ones became fewer and fewer as the films went on for me.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Apex Predator » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:10 pm

Once you get past the first few Saws, it appears all too much that they wrote themselves in a corner and their attempts at continuing and fixing it just kept making it worse.

There are some absurd moments sprinkled throughout the franchise, but I can't think of a reason to sit through them again. I see Jigsaw is just sitting there on Prime in my watchlist, but I'm not sure if I'm going to get around to seeing it.

Having seen the trailer to Spiral, I find myself interested enough to check that one out or at least see another trailer. And yeah on Darren Lynn Bousman doing this one (I think Repo has grown on me...although I do hope they're able to finish the Devil's Carnival trilogy).

Finally, I'm about a third of the way on The Girl on the 3rd Floor. It's alright so far, although it just feels like Guy Repairs Haunted House movie 623.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rock » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:23 am

DaMU wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:19 am
Nice! I know it's not the caliber of his best work, but I still find it rewatchable. Moves at a fast clip, escalates to a fun climax, agreed about Hopper and Leguizamo.

And it does hold up remarkably well on a satirical standpoint. Hell, the real estate magnate and his faith in the wall and hatred for Latinos is crazily prescient.
Yup, and there are definitely strong OWS vibes as well. Turns out threatening to blow your bosses to smithereens by launching missiles from your super-powered, zombie-proofed megatruck is just a timeless, catch-all metaphor.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:18 am

Look, I get what y'all are saying about Saw. Everyone knows that the Saw franchise went to shit. What I'm proposing is... Maybe it didn't?
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rock » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:32 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:18 am
Look, I get what y'all are saying about Saw. Everyone knows that the Saw franchise went to shit. What I'm proposing is... Maybe it didn't?
In a way, the shit the series went to was in it all along.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:43 am

Rock wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:32 am
In a way, the shit the series went to was in it all along.
Now you’re getting it. Would you like to... play a game?
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rock » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:49 am

*raspy Danny Glover voice* Ima kill you, you sick asshole!
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:54 am

Rock wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:49 am
*raspy Danny Glover voice* Ima kill you, you sick asshole!
Most people are so ungrateful to be alive. But not you. Not anymore. You've seen the Saw franchise.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by DaMU » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:09 am

Maybe you're more tolerant of the film technique than I am. I can't remember which one, but I remember vividly one of those ass movies giving me a migraine.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Wooley » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:49 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:27 am
I have to say I'm a bit surprised by the responses you guys have about the original Saw. Then again, I only saw it once several years ago and I don't remember a whole lot about it. I thought the ending was a really disturbing concept and it was probably part of why it left such a big impact on me, despite it raising more questions than answers.
I thought the original Saw was pretty good in a low-budget kinda way.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Jinnistan » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:18 pm

Maybe those films are titled in the past tense for a reason.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Apex Predator » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:27 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:18 am
Look, I get what y'all are saying about Saw. Everyone knows that the Saw franchise went to shit. What I'm proposing is... Maybe it didn't?
Cue third act music as we come across a "twist" that feels glaringly obvious.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:29 pm

Apex Predator wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:27 pm
Cue third act music as we come across a "twist" that feels glaringly obvious.
Yet the obvious twist will contain a glorious reveal within itself that fills in a logic gap previously glossed over and it's ludicrously marvellous.

So THAT'S how he got the key in that dude's eye?!?!
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Charles » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:52 am

I can't believe there was a period in time where Saw and Hostel and everything were just one-upping themselves on violence and torture and crazy ways to kill people. I had completely forgotten about Saw. I'm a bit disappointed to hear the first one is just fine, I was sort of interested when I heard it was good. Pass.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by Rock » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:31 am

Hostel is smarter, better made and less giddy about its subject matter than most people give it credit for. I'm a fan.
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Re: Horrorcram XV: Let's Scare Corrierino To Death

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:48 am

Rock wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:31 am
Hostel is smarter, better made and less giddy about its subject matter than most people give it credit for. I'm a fan.
And Hostel 2 is even better.

None of these films are as extreme as their reputations and usually either undercut tension with humor or keep it off screen.
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