Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

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ThatDarnMKS
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri May 22, 2020 12:00 am

Apex Predator wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:47 pm
I'm on board Team Baby Driver except for the last half hour which reminded me too much...of Madea Goes to Jail.
I don’t just want but need elaboration on this and am off to order Madea Goes to Jail.
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Apex Predator
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Apex Predator » Fri May 22, 2020 12:07 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:00 am
I don’t just want but need elaboration on this and am off to order Madea Goes to Jail.
It does get a bit heavy with the spoiler, but here we go.
The part that reminded me of Madea Goes to Jail is the section where everyone (from Whoopi Goldberg from the View on down) were arguing to #FreeMadea from her prison sentence she received at the start of the film (which was determined by the judge from the time on the clock!)

In Baby Driver, this took place in the trial where everyone from his girlfriend/waitress to his adoptive father to people affected by his crimes go to bat for his innocence. Doesn't work out (I guess 25 years wasn't in their plans), but I think he gets out on parole within 5?
Anyway, I'd argue this needed another car sequence or two because the film was much less fleet on foot.
ThatDarnMKS
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri May 22, 2020 12:14 am

Apex Predator wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:07 am
It does get a bit heavy with the spoiler, but here we go.
The part that reminded me of Madea Goes to Jail is the section where everyone (from Whoopi Goldberg from the View on down) were arguing to #FreeMadea from her prison sentence she received at the start of the film (which was determined by the judge from the time on the clock!)

In Baby Driver, this took place in the trial where everyone from his girlfriend/waitress to his adoptive father to people affected by his crimes go to bat for his innocence. Doesn't work out (I guess 25 years wasn't in their plans), but I think he gets out on parole within 5?
Anyway, I'd argue this needed another car sequence or two because the film was much less fleet on foot.

Ahhh! Yes. That piece of hokum. I wish I could think of what classic film started the trope (if only there were a website dedicated to such a thing) but Eastwood's
The Mule
had a similarly cringey deployment of the concept. Apologies if that constitutes a spoiler by clicking but... The film is bad and based on a true story.
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Apex Predator
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Apex Predator » Fri May 22, 2020 12:24 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:14 am
Ahhh! Yes. That piece of hokum. I wish I could think of what classic film started the trope (if only there were a website dedicated to such a thing) but Eastwood's
The Mule
had a similarly cringey deployment of the concept. Apologies if that constitutes a spoiler by clicking but... The film is bad and based on a true story.
Luckily, I wasn't planning on seeing that one anytime soon...Paint Your Wagon may be more likely.

The reviews I've seen were all over the map, though.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri May 22, 2020 12:35 am

Apex Predator wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:24 am
Luckily, I wasn't planning on seeing that one anytime soon...Paint Your Wagon may be more likely.

The reviews I've seen were all over the map, though.
The trailer for it is a mini-masterpiece. The film itself is a narrative trainwreck of all of Clint's worst impulses as a director and human being. It is still functional and solidly crafted (unlike 15:17 to Paris, which is among the worst wide release films I've seen that feels more like Kirk Cameron than Eastwood) but its best watched with low expectations and/or alcohol.

That said, I think Cahier Du Cinema liked it?
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Takoma1
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Takoma1 » Fri May 22, 2020 12:47 am

Apex Predator wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:24 am
Luckily, I wasn't planning on seeing that one anytime soon...Paint Your Wagon may be more likely.
I've seen Paint Your Wagon TWICE because my college volleyball coach made us watch it on long bus trips. Looking back, why was throwing myself out the window not an option? Hmm. I actually have visceral memories of trying to do typology assignments while Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood warble on a tiny TV set.
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Ergill
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Ergill » Fri May 22, 2020 12:58 am

takeshi wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 8:50 pm
I agree with all of this fwiw. Tho the axe falls down for me way nearer Crumbs' point of view, so I'm just batting on the side of that. A technician and an artist are on different creative wavelengths but the eternal question is whether these things always have some semblance of intersecting constantly. And how to define craft even? Where does the avant-garde fall into this question when the craft is not standardised?
I don't necessarily oppose them. When you put the opposition like that, you make me think of Tim's Vermeer, which documents a misbegotten project based on the assumption that the only way to prove the technical contribution to art is to try to prove that a masterpiece can be recreated by a novice purely through technical bootstrapping. He wants to prove that Vermeer could've just been a brilliant technician. It's sort of crazy and fun and maybe doesn't prove anything of value, but is fodder for the kinds of questions you're asking.

Anyone can make art however the they want, but art is a practice and a tradition, and it has a bunch of paradigms which typically require some technical skill to pull off. They're sort of the main road that sets the general idea of what art is and what kind of standards we have in mind when making it. The technical side is part what makes art, art in these cases. Kubrick's ingenious uses of lenses in Barry Lyndon would get one of those old-timey pointy hands here. You can't factor out the technical and the artistic side there. The technical isn't the only ingredient though, and I'm not even up to trying listing the possible ingredients. That's probably as varied as people's evolving wants and interests. Some of the more interesting stuff are side roads and trails and gettings lost which go looking for different ideas and affects. Maybe they just throw either out the window. None of it is remotely systematic and it doesn't need to be. It's more a web of thoughts, feelings, values, and interests that we're constantly negotiating.

What I can remember of an old class, the historical avant-garde was about attacking artistic tradition: at the time that was Romanticism, Realism, decadence, "art for art's sake", individualism. And for all its irrationality, the earliest movements had an evangelical, polemical, conceptual bent, even when that concept was undermining conceptuality itself. They all had to have manifesto. Marienetti was probably the first to write one when he declared his group the Futurists (he was the only member). But manifestos mean precepts or at the very least some kind of project. It might differ from most mainstream projects in various ways, but it's creating a parallel paradigm, and the more of it people create and consume, the more we find inroads into it and ways of judging it. It's only with Dada that the avant-garde peaks out in purposefully contradictory irrationalism, and even then it's not JUST that. There are still ideas and sentiments. But by that point, you're gonna get a seriously mixed bag. You've got Duchamp signing a urinal and upending our sense of art in the industrial age on the one hand, and then you have a lot of completely nonsensical poetry on the other. That doesn't mean we can't evaluate it though. Just like them, we can do whatever the fuck we want.
crumbsroom wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:45 pm
I should probably check him out.
He's really generous and low-key erudite. Of the ones I've read so far, I enjoyed The Revenant the best.
crumbsroom wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:04 pm
Yes to all of this, especially when you get to the part of telling technical mastery to fuck off. That was the best part.
I've enjoyed a lot of stuff that's told technical mastery to fuck right off. There are mountains of shit I have no time for that did the same and can also go fuck right off.
ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:15 pm
Which ultimately only matters if one cares that I think they’re worth their salt.

Which everyone clearly should, cuz look at me. I’m great.

But yeah. Keep being the voice of reason, Ergill.
If you wanted to leave me and roam, when you got back, pretty baby, I'd just say "Welcome home."
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crumbsroom
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by crumbsroom » Fri May 22, 2020 1:21 am

Ergill wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:58 am

I've enjoyed a lot of stuff that's told technical mastery to fuck right off. There are mountains of shit I have no time for that did the same and can also go fuck right off
No doubt. Being that I believe the two greatest filmmakers of all time are Dreyer and Kubrick, I'm more than eager to embrace technical greatness. Being contradictory is only part of the fun of art appreciation and criticism.

I really only balk at the notion that anything is inherently a must for an artist. Nothing is necessary. I believe in instinct above all, and sometimes instinct has no time for getting one self all studied up. Some times that can even kill instinct in the process.

My only gripe with narrative or craft is really only born from how fervent believers in these are so plentiful, and can also frequently demand adherence to their particular philosophies in art. To which only then, being that I am a peaceful soul, am I forced to a respond with a fuck right off. You've already got your claws in everything. Give the freaks a place to play too. There is room for everybody.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri May 22, 2020 1:33 am

whoa, I didn't imply that artists need to adept at the technical craft elements of their art (unless that comment has nothing to do with me, Crummy, then carry on). I implied that I don't put weight into critical assessments that don't value craft. In other words, a film can be poorly made but good for other reasons but I can't get on board with a masterfully made film being bad.

I honestly can't think of a film I'd describe as exceptionally well made that I don't at least "like."

I would also wager that I think being competent with nothing creative may be the worst viewing experience of all.

I would also delineate a world of difference between "competent" and the high end crafting I'm referring to.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Ergill » Fri May 22, 2020 1:36 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:21 am
No doubt. Being that I believe the two greatest filmmakers of all time are Dreyer and Kubrick, I'm more than eager to embrace technical greatness. Being contradictory is only part of the fun of art appreciation and criticism.

I really only balk at the notion that anything is inherently a must for an artist. Nothing is necessary. I believe in instinct above all, and sometimes instinct has no time for getting one self all studied up. Some times that can even kill instinct in the process.

My only gripe with narrative or craft is really only born from how fervent believers in these are so plentiful, and can also frequently demand adherence to their particular philosophies in art. To which only then, being that I am a peaceful soul, am I forced to a respond with a fuck right off. You've already got your claws in everything. Give the freaks a place to play too. There is room for everybody.
I don't think MKS is demanding that filmmakers do anything here. I doubt he has any specific demands in mind for you either outside of a distrust of hyperbole and a feeling that Wright deserves credit for being a technical wizard, which the dude is.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri May 22, 2020 1:42 am

Ergill wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:36 am
I don't think MKS is demanding that filmmakers do anything here. I doubt he has any specific demands in mind for you either outside of a distrust of hyperbole and a feeling that Wright deserves credit for being a technical wizard, which the dude is.
One day, I'll voice myself as well as you voice me. And on that day... You die.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by crumbsroom » Fri May 22, 2020 1:46 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:33 am
Unless that comment has nothing to do with me, Crummy, then carry on).
It didn't
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri May 22, 2020 1:56 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:46 am
It didn't
I'm am momentarily humbled but I warn you, it won't last the night.
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Apex Predator
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Apex Predator » Fri May 22, 2020 2:41 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:47 am
I've seen Paint Your Wagon TWICE because my college volleyball coach made us watch it on long bus trips. Looking back, why was throwing myself out the window not an option? Hmm. I actually have visceral memories of trying to do typology assignments while Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood warble on a tiny TV set.
Kind of hard to play volleyball when you went out the Interstate due to jumping out the window. :D

I think I know of one poster who loves it who lurks in Thief's thread. We'll see him/her show up when I review it (I think).
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri May 22, 2020 2:57 am

As a lover of musicals, westerns, Eastwood and Lee Van Cleef, I need to watch it. But it also sounds like "as a lover of chocolate, lobster, hot sauce and pineapple, I really need to eat that Fieri monstrosity."
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Ergill
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Ergill » Fri May 22, 2020 3:00 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:57 am
As a lover of musicals, westerns, Eastwood and Lee Van Cleef, I need to watch it. But it also sounds like "as a lover of chocolate, lobster, hot sauce and pineapple, I really need to eat that Fieri monstrosity."
Liked
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Takoma1
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Takoma1 » Fri May 22, 2020 3:42 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:57 am
As a lover of musicals, westerns, Eastwood and Lee Van Cleef, I need to watch it. But it also sounds like "as a lover of chocolate, lobster, hot sauce and pineapple, I really need to eat that Fieri monstrosity."
The worst thing about it is that it's . . . kind of unmemorable.

All I remember is a "comedy" bit where one of the men (Marvin's character, I think) tries to push his way into the bed of the wife that they purchased.

*Wife that they purchased*

Maybe I haven't forgotten it so much as repressed it.
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Stu
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Stu » Sat May 23, 2020 9:05 am

Fun fact; on the DVD commentary for this episode, the writers admitted that they didn't actually base this parody on anything that was actually in Paint Your Wagon, since, like most people, none of them had actually seen it:

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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Stu » Sat May 23, 2020 9:33 am

Rock wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 6:56 pm
Captain Terror's pot shot at Yngwie Malmsteen is my favourite thing to come of this discussion.
Mine too, even though I obviously disagree with him on his point.

:D
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