Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

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crumbsroom
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by crumbsroom » Sat May 04, 2019 3:09 am

Image

Not entirely sure how I feel about how this concludes itself. If it works. If it doesn't. If it's nonsense. But this is probably irrelevant to the fact that I think I completely love this movie.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Jinnistan » Sat May 04, 2019 3:17 am

Almost as good as Mandy.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by crumbsroom » Sat May 04, 2019 3:22 am

Jinnistan wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:17 am
Almost as good as Mandy.
I could see people being underwhelmed by this as much as I was by Mandy. It would be understandable. There are hypothetically similar criticisms. But it would also be a terribly wrong way to think about this.

Whatever its (possibly) abundant flaws, this is one of the better horror films of the last couple of years. It got under my skin. It confounded me in all of the good ways. Its sometimes stupidity was inspired.

Loved it.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by crumbsroom » Sat May 04, 2019 3:49 am

Rewatching Sleepaway Camp for the millionth time, and this movie is always way better than I remember. And I always remember it as being amazing.

Even better than the remake of Sleepaway Camp.

Mandy is still in last.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Jinnistan » Sat May 04, 2019 4:01 am

I actually haven't seen it yet.

Mandy may have broken my television.

What have I seen lately? Not much to write about:

That's the Way of the World - not great, but Keitel plays a record executive trying to give Earth Wind & Fire a shot, but being pushed towards some kind of Peter Paul & Partridge pop group instead. The ending was fantastic.

Black Lizard - wuxia that's not bad but not as entertaining as Human Lanterns or Blind Woman's Curse (also recent watches).

The Shape of Things to Come - Cheapy sci-fi (shot in Canada!) with Jack Palance. I saw this at a drive-in as a baby, but could only remember Jack's vacuum-like death helmet. Not good, and not as funny as Starcrash.

Puberty Blues - unfortunately titled coming of age drama about a couple of girls among Aussie surfers. Also from Beresford, it's not quite on the level of Breaking Away.

Cracking Up - hideous sketch comedy film, worse even than Groove Tube. The guy who created Police Academy was one of the writers. Still has small moments with spots from Fred Willard and the Credibility Gap (Harry Shearer, Michael McKean, David Lander).

I've seen it several times but I rewatched The Shout with a friend. You've seen that one, right? That there's a monster motion picture.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by crumbsroom » Sat May 04, 2019 4:08 am

Jinnistan wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:01 am


I've seen it several times but I rewatched The Shout with a friend. You've seen that one, right?
Yessssss.

Gooooood.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Jinnistan » Sat May 04, 2019 4:13 am

Oh, I also finally watched Long Weekend last week, the Aussie thriller. I was confusing it with a film called Death Weekend for some reason (which itself seems to actually be called House By the Lake).

Also watched The Apple. It was no Mandy.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Wooley » Sat May 04, 2019 7:19 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:22 am

Whatever its (possibly) abundant flaws, this is one of the better horror films of the last couple of years. It got under my skin. It confounded me in all of the good ways. Its sometimes stupidity was inspired.

Loved it.
I think I mostly agree with you.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Sat May 11, 2019 12:12 am

Jinnistan wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:01 am
I actually haven't seen it yet.

Mandy may have broken my television.

What have I seen lately? Not much to write about:

That's the Way of the World - not great, but Keitel plays a record executive trying to give Earth Wind & Fire a shot, but being pushed towards some kind of Peter Paul & Partridge pop group instead. The ending was fantastic.

Black Lizard - wuxia that's not bad but not as entertaining as Human Lanterns or Blind Woman's Curse (also recent watches).

The Shape of Things to Come - Cheapy sci-fi (shot in Canada!) with Jack Palance. I saw this at a drive-in as a baby, but could only remember Jack's vacuum-like death helmet. Not good, and not as funny as Starcrash.

Puberty Blues - unfortunately titled coming of age drama about a couple of girls among Aussie surfers. Also from Beresford, it's not quite on the level of Breaking Away.

Cracking Up - hideous sketch comedy film, worse even than Groove Tube. The guy who created Police Academy was one of the writers. Still has small moments with spots from Fred Willard and the Credibility Gap (Harry Shearer, Michael McKean, David Lander).

I've seen it several times but I rewatched The Shout with a friend. You've seen that one, right? That there's a monster motion picture.
Worth watching for the dopey warp drive scene. Been meaning to edit that to dubstep.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by crumbsroom » Sat May 11, 2019 8:44 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:13 am
Oh, I also finally watched Long Weekend last week, the Aussie thriller. I was confusing it with a film called Death Weekend for some reason (which itself seems to actually be called House By the Lake).
Did you like?
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Jinnistan » Sun May 12, 2019 4:05 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 12:12 am
Worth watching for the dopey warp drive scene. Been meaning to edit that to dubstep.
Oh, from Shape? Yeah, it's unfortunate to have been released in the same year as the significantly more impressive wormhole sequence from the first Star Trek film. Had Shape been issued in, oh say, 1963 or so, maybe the FX would have been more appreciable. (And that's '1963' in the alternate timeline from Things To Come, the grossly superior 1936 film from the same H.G. Wells source and which actually resembles said source.)

crumbsroom wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 8:44 pm
Did you like?
Yes, maybe not quite as much as Wake in Fright. I separated these more "elemental" Aussie films from stuff like Last Wave and Walkabout because of the absence of a supernatural or mystical element. In that sense, even though it takes place in southern England, I would place The Shout among the latter, in that it is embedded with Aboriginal mysticism, and reflects that honky fascination with strange native negros. (I think Rock had an issue with Walkabout over this type of fetishism.)
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Rock » Sun May 12, 2019 11:53 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 4:05 am
Oh, from Shape? Yeah, it's unfortunate to have been released in the same year as the significantly more impressive wormhole sequence from the first Star Trek film. Had Shape been issued in, oh say, 1963 or so, maybe the FX would have been more appreciable. (And that's '1963' in the alternate timeline from Things To Come, the grossly superior 1936 film from the same H.G. Wells source and which actually resembles said source.)




Yes, maybe not quite as much as Wake in Fright. I separated these more "elemental" Aussie films from stuff like Last Wave and Walkabout because of the absence of a supernatural or mystical element. In that sense, even though it takes place in southern England, I would place The Shout among the latter, in that it is embedded with Aboriginal mysticism, and reflects that honky fascination with strange native negros. (I think Rock had an issue with Walkabout over this type of fetishism.)
I'd need to watch it again to elaborate on my opinion (or to see if I even still feel that way), but I remember my issues being less with any fetishistic attitude taken by the movie as a whole and more with the nostalgia-tinged ending, which seemed at odds with what came before it.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Jinnistan » Mon May 13, 2019 1:06 am

Rock wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 11:53 pm
I'd need to watch it again to elaborate on my opinion (or to see if I even still feel that way), but I remember my issues being less with any fetishistic attitude taken by the movie as a whole and more with the nostalgia-tinged ending, which seemed at odds with what came before it.
The "nostalgia" being for the perceived authenticity and purity of native outback life as contrasted by modern urban life, if I remember correctly.

Which I may not, as, due to the malicious prejudices of shillsuckers, we cannot revisit the RT-GD posts for context, I can't say for sure the exact language, but I'm pretty sure "fetish", is some form of verb conjugation, was used in your response (shortly before something or other about "colonialist skullfucker" and "capitalist pig apologist").
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Jinnistan » Mon May 13, 2019 3:03 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:09 am
Image

Not entirely sure how I feel about how this concludes itself. If it works. If it doesn't. If it's nonsense. But this is probably irrelevant to the fact that I think I completely love this movie.
I did not like.

Not for lack of trying, in fact I did admire the film for most of its runtime. I was grateful that Guadgnino avoided homage and winky fan service by establishing his own distinct sensual template and narrative structure, forcing the viewer to immediately accept this film on terms very different from Argento. I was greatly relieved to see that Guadgnino has a very capable hand with horror and suspense atmospherics, skills that he had not revealed in his prior films. I also generally appreciated some of the more muted (comparatively) but surreal visuals, most strikingly in the, um, "contortion scene" and a very subtley effective nightmare sequence. Throughout these two-thirds of the film, I was impressed at Guadgnino's resistance to resorting to more cliched habits - jump scares and strobe editing - which directors with little horror experience tend to overrely on. And I was absolutely smitten with the inspired choice to cast the skeletal Polish beauty Malgosia Bela. Really, the only asterisk through much of the film was that I was never quite convinced in the strength of Dakota Johnson as an actress.

I suspect you know where I'm going with this....
The ending is a chicken coup fire on a shittrain caboose. After two hours of sustained restraint, we finally get drenched in exactly the kind of pissy CGI and cheap strobe filters that turn it into cliche overkill. Worse than that, it seems more humorous than horrific, less like a subversion of the original than a mockery. Guadagnino (or his scriptwriter, whoever) decides to turn the Three Mothers mythology on its head, transforming Mater Suspiriorium into an angel of mercy. I can see why Argento himself trashed the film, "it betrayed the spirit of the original film", with the "spirit", I believe, not being the aesthetics and rhythms of the original, but the more profound changes to the nature of the Three Mothers as elementally evil. And why? To shoehorn a broad (sorry) feminist allusion? Is it not sufficient to celebrate the feminine strength of Harper's Susie Bannion who required no supernatural intervention to bring down the coven? Very similar to The Witch, the attempt to apply a political reading becomes convoluted in practice, except that the politics in Suspiria are harder to ignore. The more elemental allusion, the dark side of motherhood (tears, sighs and darkness) remains fertile symbolical ground without requiring delusions of redemption (ie, Eyes of My Mother).

This confusion of political aspiration sours everything about the ending for me, and not just because it runs so counter to "the spirit" of the original. The longest of the film's seemingly endless stream of epilogues, the bedside scene with Dr. Josef, is so eye-rollingly superfluous. I was hopeful, through most of the film, that the various German-relevant political events that we hear on the radio would be left at being that, window-dressing of dread. Josef, wholly invented for this film, seems like a perverse vessel for collective German Holocaust guilt, seeing as he doesn't appear to be personally guilty of anything more than suffering. Or why it's necessary to heal his guilt if he's going to lose any memory of the healing. This is just so stupid and hollow and forced, and frankly wastes an otherwise impressively invisible turn by Tilda Swinton.
Mandy is better for a very simple reason: it never claims to be a remake of Mad Max, and never tries to justify the changes in that particular arc on moral grounds. It simply is what it is. Suspiria is ultimately not what Suspiria should be.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by crumbsroom » Mon May 13, 2019 3:41 am

Dakota Johnson is really terrible. I'm still not sure how much I didn't like the ending, but there was a gonzo element to it that I couldn't totally say fuck you too. It's a film filled with flaws, and being that I was also completely uninterested in any of its conflicting underlying politics, I can still loooooooove it.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Jinnistan » Mon May 13, 2019 4:39 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 3:41 am
Dakota Johnson is really terrible. I'm still not sure how much I didn't like the ending, but there was a gonzo element to it that I couldn't totally say fuck you too. It's a film filled with flaws, and being that I was also completely uninterested in any of its conflicting underlying politics, I can still loooooooove it.
I think that gonzo element works a lot better in Mandy though, probably because it isn't tethered to any pretense of being taken seriously. That last quarter hour of Suspiria just so insists! on itself. Argento's Suspira is one of the few films that knew exactly when to end.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Ergill » Mon May 13, 2019 4:49 am

Jinnistan wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:39 am
I think that gonzo element works a lot better in Mandy though, probably because it isn't tethered to any pretense of being taken seriously. That last quarter hour of Suspiria just so insists! on itself. Argento's Suspira is one of the few films that knew exactly when to end.
I felt pretty similar about new Suspiria. On board for most of it, but the end was was just horribly phoned in.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Jinnistan » Mon May 13, 2019 5:50 am

Ergill wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:49 am
I felt pretty similar about new Suspiria. On board for most of it, but the end was was just horribly phoned in.
Going out on a limb a little....
I think part of the problem is inherent in trying to politicize witches and witchcraft as a form of female liberation, and I pointed a lot of this problem out in The Witch. There's no doubt that the persecution of witches historically represented the subjugation of female power, but in the historical cases, of course, the witchcraft was an inflated, hysterical fear from the minds of ignorant clergymen. The problem with The Witch, and possibly the new Suspiria, is that in the reality as presented to us, witches are not only real (and not merely projected patriarchal fears), but rather sinister as well (like murdering babies and masturbating with their flesh-paste). Once the political allusion is established that witches = female liberation, then the film is trapped into the inescapable suggestion that liberation itself requires indulging in sinister behavior. I'm not sure if that's what's intended in Suspiria, but the corrupt dance school remains open, meet the new boss, and apparently she won't be so full of torment as the old boss. This deviates not only from Argento's reality, but that of De Quincey's description of the Three Mothers, where their torment is pronounced to be inevitable and never-ending.

Another problem with post-#metoo retrofitting is that such generalized feminine archetypes become fraught with essentializing. Witches become automatically avatars of female power, and female power is worth championing. The Three Mothers represent a specific aspect, and not a very positive one, of feminine dread. So there's a risk by pointing out that the Three Mothers being essentially and inevitably evil (their sole purpose is human torment), that this will invariably be seen as an essential judgment on feminine power generally, no less a condemnation than from Cotton Mather himself.

De Quincey shows that there is quite a bit to explore in the more esoteric symbolism of the more dreadful apprehensions of motherhood. The overt politics seem like a weak choice to exploit instead. (I have to assume that the Holocaust guilt is essentially partiarchal?) The symbolism suggested by De Quincey is so rich in being primal, more personal, as intimate as the unspoken (amniotic) fears intuited between mother and child. The film seemed to be making headway in this more personal, subconcious direction, but then....Nazi Ex Machina. Also, for that last epilogue with Josef, it's interesting to look at De Quincey's "Memorial Suspiria", where the "writer of breathings" points out that premonition of future sorrows is more unbearable than the sighs of the past. Mother Suspiriorum is not a comforter, and neither should amnesia be.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Wooley » Mon May 13, 2019 10:47 am

Hm. The end didn't bother me like it did you guys. It looked like it needed a better budget, but that is what it is.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Rock » Mon May 13, 2019 11:05 am

I think the Holocaust stuff was what finally turned me off from the movie, but I don't think any of there political or gender stuff was working. There's good stuff in the movie though (Swinton, Goth, the dance sequences).
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Ergill » Mon May 13, 2019 9:57 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:50 am
Going out on a limb a little....
I think part of the problem is inherent in trying to politicize witches and witchcraft as a form of female liberation, and I pointed a lot of this problem out in The Witch. There's no doubt that the persecution of witches historically represented the subjugation of female power, but in the historical cases, of course, the witchcraft was an inflated, hysterical fear from the minds of ignorant clergymen. The problem with The Witch, and possibly the new Suspiria, is that in the reality as presented to us, witches are not only real (and not merely projected patriarchal fears), but rather sinister as well (like murdering babies and masturbating with their flesh-paste). Once the political allusion is established that witches = female liberation, then the film is trapped into the inescapable suggestion that liberation itself requires indulging in sinister behavior. I'm not sure if that's what's intended in Suspiria, but the corrupt dance school remains open, meet the new boss, and apparently she won't be so full of torment as the old boss. This deviates not only from Argento's reality, but that of De Quincey's description of the Three Mothers, where their torment is pronounced to be inevitable and never-ending.

Another problem with post-#metoo retrofitting is that such generalized feminine archetypes become fraught with essentializing. Witches become automatically avatars of female power, and female power is worth championing. The Three Mothers represent a specific aspect, and not a very positive one, of feminine dread. So there's a risk by pointing out that the Three Mothers being essentially and inevitably evil (their sole purpose is human torment), that this will invariably be seen as an essential judgment on feminine power generally, no less a condemnation than from Cotton Mather himself.

De Quincey shows that there is quite a bit to explore in the more esoteric symbolism of the more dreadful apprehensions of motherhood. The overt politics seem like a weak choice to exploit instead. (I have to assume that the Holocaust guilt is essentially partiarchal?) The symbolism suggested by De Quincey is so rich in being primal, more personal, as intimate as the unspoken (amniotic) fears intuited between mother and child. The film seemed to be making headway in this more personal, subconcious direction, but then....Nazi Ex Machina. Also, for that last epilogue with Josef, it's interesting to look at De Quincey's "Memorial Suspiria", where the "writer of breathings" points out that premonition of future sorrows is more unbearable than the sighs of the past. Mother Suspiriorum is not a comforter, and neither should amnesia be.
Joining you on that limb...
I think there's some justification in that criticism, although I'm not sure I'd say it was so inherent as to be inevitable. There's another out for them in a "if you treat me like a monster, I'll become a monster" narrative. In The Witch, the family's scapegoating of the daughter is central to their self-destruction and obviously pushes her into witchery by the end, something there's no indication she would've ever done on her own. I wasn't sure if Suspiria was going in a similar direction with all the side stuff on the Meinhof gang, symptom of an unhealthy reaction to the unhealthy complacency of their Nazi-era parents. I didn't feel the urge to dig into the esoteric symbolism of the mothers, especially after that shrug of an ending. Does either totally work on this level? Probably not. But the potential is there.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Jinnistan » Mon May 13, 2019 10:55 pm

Ergill wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:57 pm
I didn't feel the urge to dig into the esoteric symbolism of the mothers, especially after that shrug of an ending. Does either totally work on this level? Probably not. But the potential is there.
The potential alone is what makes the esoteric symbolism so intriguing, compared to the more mundane political symbolism. That you don't feel interested to follow up the former shows a failure of the film to take advantage of that potential.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Ergill » Mon May 13, 2019 11:31 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:55 pm
The potential alone is what makes the esoteric symbolism so intriguing, compared to the more mundane political symbolism. That you don't feel interested to follow up the former shows a failure of the film to take advantage of that potential.
Yeah! It's the film's fault! Sure as hell not mine.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Wooley » Tue May 14, 2019 3:15 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:09 am
Image

Not entirely sure how I feel about how this concludes itself. If it works. If it doesn't. If it's nonsense. But this is probably irrelevant to the fact that I think I completely love this movie.
Yeah, it was weird, I thought it was kind of a mess and yet I still kinda loved it. Strange.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Mon May 20, 2019 4:16 pm

Here's a few films I've seen recently.

The Ascent (1977) - 9/10 This film does away with hefty doses of action in favor of multiple character moments. And holy hell are the characters fascinating. Sotnikov and Rybak make for such a diverse pair who are well developed through a variety of effective moments which provide insight to their characterizations, all leading up to a truly devastating final act. Also, the religious symbolism feels neither on-the-nose nor didactic as it's cleverly woven into the film.

Random Harvest (1942) - 6/10 The more I think about this, the less likely I think I am to revisit it, but it still has its strengths. Greer Garson and Ronald Colman are strong and charming together and the general outline of the plot is fine. It's just that the film could've benefited by fleshing out the characters, specifically near the opening and the final act as major plot advancements left me unmoved and rather disappointed. A bit dated, but still good.

Paranoid Park (2007) - 5/10 Well acted and exceptionally well shot with a dreamlike quality which is hard to come by nowadays, but the movie left me feeling cold. For instance, the non-linear chronology of the plot made for a decent "slowly unfolding puzzle" effect which comes with this structure, but since it didn't have much of an effect beyond this, I feel like I would've just preferred a linear structure. In addition, some of the supporting characters could've used a lot more meat. Forgettable, but watchable.

Sult (1966) - 8/10 A clever character portrait of a starving and overly proud writer who talks down to various people he encounters and refuses to accept any money as he thinks other people need it more than him. In reality though, he sinks further and further down into the depths as one of his writings after another get rejected and he often faces threats of being evicted from his residences. I'm still mulling over a particular sub-plot in the film which struck me as on-the-nose, but I still highly recommend this one.
Watch it for free on youtube.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Jinnistan » Tue May 21, 2019 5:30 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 4:16 pm
Sult (1966) - 8/10 A clever character portrait of a starving and overly proud writer who talks down to various people he encounters and refuses to accept any money as he thinks other people need it more than him. In reality though, he sinks further and further down into the depths as one of his writings after another get rejected and he often faces threats of being evicted from his residences. I'm still mulling over a particular sub-plot in the film which struck me as on-the-nose, but I still highly recommend this one.
Watch it for free on youtube.
Hm. Hmm.

*slips under jacket*
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Tue May 21, 2019 5:50 am

I'd encourage anyone here to watch this film. It's really well-done. I'm kind of tempted to watch it again.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Wooley » Tue May 21, 2019 2:37 pm

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 5:50 am
I'd encourage anyone here to watch this film. It's really well-done. I'm kind of tempted to watch it again.
Um... which film?
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Tue May 21, 2019 3:29 pm

Wooley wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 2:37 pm
Um... which film?
Oh, I was referring to Sult, because Jinnistan commented on it. Sorry for the confusion.
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Re: Watching Movies Alone with crumbsroom

Post by Wooley » Tue May 21, 2019 7:06 pm

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:29 pm
Oh, I was referring to Sult, because Jinnistan commented on it. Sorry for the confusion.
No problem. I thought you were teasing a movie you had maybe just finished and then forgot to actually present it.
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