We Didn't Start The 80s

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Wooley
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Wooley » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:21 am

crumbsroom wrote:
I love Princess Bride, but your lukewarm feeling towards it brings up something about Rob Reiner as a director that I've been thinking about lately. He's a guy who directed two movies that I think are two of the best of that entire decade (Bride, Spinal Tap). One is one of the greatest children's movie ever made. The other is arguably one of the best comedies ever made. He also directed Stand By Me after these (one of the best coming of age films) and When Harry Met Sally (almost without any question the best romantic comedy this side of a Woody Allen). Misery is pretty good as well. That's an incredible track record for a six year period, yet at no point ever, now or in the future, would I ever think to put Reiner in the pantheon of great directors. It wouldn't even occur to me, even as I scratch my chin over whether I'd include Tobe Hooper on any kind of list simply from TCM. Or Charles Laughton for Night of the Hunter.

I think it gets to the style of Rob Reiner, of which there is abjectly none. He competently puts movies together. But he mostly let's either his performers or the source material he's working with speak for itself without getting in the way. I think this is a noble way to approach movies as a story teller, but obviously is lacking when I try I am considering people who are great artists in film.
Honestly, this makes perfect sense.
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Captain Terror
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:36 pm

Wooley wrote: Just avoid The Goddamn Prowler. That movie will ruin the whole genre for you in 89 minutes.
I appreciate the warning, but I'm afraid I'm going to ignore it because I can't resist that poster. We'll see if I regret this decision later.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Death Proof » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:01 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Tom Hanks at his finest.

Well, it's no Mazes and Monsters.

Shepherds we shall be, for thee, my Lord, for thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, our feet may swiftly carry out Thy commands.
So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Thief » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:51 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Stand by Me, next to Shining, and maybe Christine, is probably the next best King adaptation. And as unbelievably awful as Corey Feldman mostly is, it's one of his good ones. In many ways, I prefer his performance to River Phoenix's.
Stand by Me is essential viewing and Feldman is solid in the role.

As for King adaptations, I've only read Different Seasons, which gave us Stand by Me, Shawshank Redemption, and Apt Pupil. I think all of them were different from the novella, but still effective film adaptations.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:03 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Stand by Me, next to Shining, and maybe Christine, is probably the next best King adaptation. And as unbelievably awful as Corey Feldman mostly is, it's one of his good ones. In many ways, I prefer his performance to River Phoenix's.
Is that supposed to say Carrie? You meant Carrie, right? :)
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:05 pm

Thief wrote:
Stand by Me is essential viewing and Feldman is solid in the role.
Yeah, jokes aside I am looking forward to it. Netflix is being a bastard about sending me the disc though. One day.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Death Proof » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:46 pm

Captain Terror wrote: Is that supposed to say Carrie? You meant Carrie, right? :)

I like Christine. I think Carpenter's take on the novel actually makes more sense than how King presented it.

Shepherds we shall be, for thee, my Lord, for thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, our feet may swiftly carry out Thy commands.
So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Thief » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:53 pm

I haven't seen Christine since the 80s. I should probably revisit that one of these days.

And since we're talking about King adaptations, everybody should go and see Dolores Claiborne. A massively underrated/underseen film that deserves more attention.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:08 pm

Death Proof wrote:

I like Christine. I think Carpenter's take on the novel actually makes more sense than how King presented it.
Yeah, that wasn't a dig at Christine, just noting that everyone was neglecting Carrie. Haven't seen Christine in ages, though.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by crumbsroom » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:03 pm

Captain Terror wrote: Is that supposed to say Carrie? You meant Carrie, right? :)
Carrie is also a prime King adaptation. The list is very short though.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Wooley » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:40 pm

Captain Terror wrote: I appreciate the warning, but I'm afraid I'm going to ignore it because I can't resist that poster. We'll see if I regret this decision later.
No!
Bad Captain!
This is exactly why I watched it.
Now go outside!
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Wooley » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:42 pm

Death Proof wrote:

I like Christine. I think Carpenter's take on the novel actually makes more sense than how King presented it.
I re-watched it again recently for the first time since the 80s and I thought it was really solid except a little short on the scares.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Rock » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:00 am

Will no one vouch for Maximum Overdrive?

Because I won't.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by John Dumbear » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:24 am

Rock wrote:Will no one vouch for Maximum Overdrive?

Because I won't.
I will. Nothing screams for campy '80s fun more than this film. It contains every aspect that the decade offered, overkill wise.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:30 pm

Wooley wrote: No!
Bad Captain!
This is exactly why I watched it.
Now go outside!
LOL
This is like the time I bought a Uriah Heep album because there was a wizard on the cover. Some of us never learn.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by John Dumbear » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:36 pm

Captain Terror wrote: This is like the time I bought a Uriah Heep album because there was a wizard on the cover. Some of us never learn.
I love "The Magician's Birthday"... :(
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:42 pm

Thief wrote: And since we're talking about King adaptations, everybody should go and see Dolores Claiborne. A massively underrated/underseen film that deserves more attention.
Went on a date once with a Stephen King fan and we rented this (her idea). Not exactly a fun night, as you might imagine, so I always felt like I should give it another shot someday.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:43 pm

John Dumbear wrote:
I love "The Magician's Birthday"... :(
:oops: I seem to be letting everyone down in this thread.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Wooley » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:13 pm

Captain Terror wrote: LOL
This is like the time I bought a Uriah Heep album because there was a wizard on the cover. Some of us never learn.
Hey, I get that. I seriously almost bought that album at Peaches records a couple months ago. And I don't know their music at all.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by crumbsroom » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:18 pm

Uriah Heep is amazingly awful. Bird of Prey and Traveler in Time are garbage par excellence.

Maximum Overdrive is just awful. Maximum Overdrive is just garbage.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by crumbsroom » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:24 pm

Anyone who is a fan of sludgy, stupid bands like Uriah Heep, should track this compilation down. What could be better than a bunch of Uriah Heep wannabes that didn't make it and immediately vanished into obscurity?

Image
WARFARING STRANGERS: THE DARKSCORCH CANTICLES
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:53 pm

crumbsroom wrote: WARFARING STRANGERS: THE DARKSCORCH CANTICLES
Greatest album title ever.
(I really shouldn't be throwing stones at Uriah Heep given my recent purchase of the Stunt Rock soundtrack.)
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:00 pm

bringin' it back to the 80s:

I really liked When Harry Met Sally. It's possible that I've seen the entire film in segments over the years but this was my first time watching it front to back in one sitting. I have a lot to say about this one, but it'll have to wait till after work. But for now I'm back on Team Reiner. :up:
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Death Proof » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:00 pm

Rock wrote:Will no one vouch for Maximum Overdrive?

Because I won't.

I will. One of the best soundtracks ever (all AC/DC), dumb horror action fun, Stephen King on coke. Missile launchers.

If that doesn't sum up the 80's I don't know what does.




"I'm gonna scare the hell outta you!"

Image

Shepherds we shall be, for thee, my Lord, for thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, our feet may swiftly carry out Thy commands.
So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
In Nomeni Patri Et Fili Spiritus Sancti.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:51 am

WHEN HARRY MET SALLY (1989)

----Spoilers follow----
Full disclosure: I'm a dude and my best friend is a woman. If any of you have been in this situation, you'll know that all of your other friends are just counting the days until the two of you bang each other's brains out. You become like their real-life Jim & Pam. To make matters worse, our friendship began in 1990 when this film was still very much fresh in everyone's minds and Harry's "he just wants to nail you" monologue had pretty much been accepted as law. It's been an uphill battle trying to convince people that it's a real thing, so a result I've always been a bit disappointed that this film chickened out and didn't follow through on the friendship thing. Lo and behold, I came across this last night after watching the film:

The script initially ended with Harry and Sally remaining friends and not pursuing a romantic relationship because (Ephron) felt that was "the true ending", as did Reiner. Eventually, Ephron and Reiner realized that it would be a more appropriate ending for them to marry, though they admit that this is generally not a realistic outcome.

Reading between the lines, I'm interpreting "more appropriate ending" to mean "audiences would lynch us if they didn't marry at the end". I liked this film a lot, but had they stuck to their original idea it really would've put it over the top for me. Not just because of my personal stake in the matter, but because no rom-com ends that way. But every rom-com ends the way this one did. So that was a missed opportunity, in my opinion. Also, this is a possible explanation for what I thought was the biggest misstep: I don't like what happened to Sally's character after they "do it". I feel like she transitioned into "in love" too abruptly. Knowing now that the ending was changed, this feels like it might be the splice where the original story meets the new ending. Not a deal-breaker, just the only part that didn't feel earned to me.

Having said all that, the movie we're left with is pretty great. Very funny and for most of it I felt like it was refreshingly devoid of the usual rom-com contrivances. I think stretching the story over 12 years helped in that regard; things felt like they were happening organically (Except for the thing I mentioned above). The whole Meg Ryan era was sort of lost on me at the time, but I can see the appeal. And I could've watched 2 hours of Bruno Kirby playing Pictionary.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:27 am

Funny thing just happened.
I just became a Uriah Heep fan.
Honestly, never heard a single one of these songs before. Totally diggin' it.
All because of you guys.
I'm not even high.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by crumbsroom » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:31 am

Wooley wrote:Funny thing just happened.
I just became a Uriah Heep fan.
It's always funny when someone becomes a Uriah Heep fan.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:40 am

Captain Terror wrote:WHEN HARRY MET SALLY (1989)

----Spoilers follow----
Full disclosure: I'm a dude and my best friend is a woman. If any of you have been in this situation, you'll know that all of your other friends are just counting the days until the two of you bang each other's brains out. You become like their real-life Jim & Pam. To make matters worse, our friendship began in 1990 when this film was still very much fresh in everyone's minds and Harry's "he just wants to nail you" monologue had pretty much been accepted as law. It's been an uphill battle trying to convince people that it's a real thing, so a result I've always been a bit disappointed that this film chickened out and didn't follow through on the friendship thing. Lo and behold, I came across this last night after watching the film:

The script initially ended with Harry and Sally remaining friends and not pursuing a romantic relationship because (Ephron) felt that was "the true ending", as did Reiner. Eventually, Ephron and Reiner realized that it would be a more appropriate ending for them to marry, though they admit that this is generally not a realistic outcome.

Reading between the lines, I'm interpreting "more appropriate ending" to mean "audiences would lynch us if they didn't marry at the end". I liked this film a lot, but had they stuck to their original idea it really would've put it over the top for me. Not just because of my personal stake in the matter, but because no rom-com ends that way. But every rom-com ends the way this one did. So that was a missed opportunity, in my opinion. Also, this is a possible explanation for what I thought was the biggest misstep: I don't like what happened to Sally's character after they "do it". I feel like she transitioned into "in love" too abruptly. Knowing now that the ending was changed, this feels like it might be the splice where the original story meets the new ending. Not a deal-breaker, just the only part that didn't feel earned to me.

Having said all that, the movie we're left with is pretty great. Very funny and for most of it I felt like it was refreshingly devoid of the usual rom-com contrivances. I think stretching the story over 12 years helped in that regard; things felt like they were happening organically (Except for the thing I mentioned above). The whole Meg Ryan era was sort of lost on me at the time, but I can see the appeal. And I could've watched 2 hours of Bruno Kirby playing Pictionary.
Also, this is fascinating and has completely changed the way I see the movie. I think I'm gonna do a WHMS->Sleepless In Seattle double-feature soon and see what wins.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Takoma1 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:42 am

Captain Terror wrote:WHEN HARRY MET SALLY (1989)

----Spoilers follow----
Lo and behold, I came across this last night after watching the film:

The script initially ended with Harry and Sally remaining friends and not pursuing a romantic relationship because (Ephron) felt that was "the true ending", as did Reiner. Eventually, Ephron and Reiner realized that it would be a more appropriate ending for them to marry, though they admit that this is generally not a realistic outcome.
SPOILERS YA'LL!

I haven't seen the movie, but I have a few friends who regularly debate the meaning of the ending of the film and its implications.

The more benevolent reading is that the film shows that friendship is a good basis for a romantic relationship. The less benevolent reading is that the message is that men and women can never be JUST friends.

It's not from the 80s, but I recommend Chris Evans' directorial debut, Before We Go, which does interesting things with romantic comedy tropes, starting out pretty blah with a meet cute, but then going in some unexpected directions.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:42 am

crumbsroom wrote:
It's always funny when someone becomes a Uriah Heep fan.
Well, that just happened.
My next high (probably tomorrow night) will have a Uriah Heep soundtrack.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:43 am

Takoma1 wrote:
It's not from the 80s, but I recommend Chris Evans' directorial debut, Before We Go, which does interesting things with romantic comedy tropes, starting out pretty blah with a meet cute, but then going in some unexpected directions.
Is it a good movie?
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:46 am

Wooley wrote:Funny thing just happened.
I just became a Uriah Heep fan.
Honestly, never heard a single one of these songs before. Totally diggin' it.
All because of you guys.
I'm not even high.
Was one of those songs "Magician's Birthday"? Where they sing Happy Birthday to a magician, accompanied by kazoo? Just wondering. :)
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Takoma1 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:58 am

Wooley wrote: Is it a good movie?
I think so. Alice Eve is a woman who is trying to get home to Boston from New York City late one night, but her purse is stolen. Chris Evans plays a subway musician who agrees to help her get her purse back and/or find a way to get enough money to buy a ticket home. They are working against a ticking clock for reasons that only become apparent as the story unfolds.

It starts out a bit rocky and the comedy in the first 20 minutes or so was a bit broad for my taste. But as it settles down I think it does some unconventional things with the romantic comedy formula. This might sound ridiculous when talking about a romantic comedy, but at one point I was at the edge of my seat.

It's not great, but I think it's worth a watch and a pretty assured directorial debut for Evans. Most of the issues are with the writing, and I think that might have something to do with the 4 different screenwriters.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:00 am

Captain Terror wrote: Was one of those songs "Magician's Birthday"? Where they sing Happy Birthday to a magician, accompanied by kazoo? Just wondering. :)
I think that was song number 6, because someone mentioned it here. But I am now on song number 8.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:03 am

I mean, how do you top:

"Traveling faster than lightning
Closer than ever before
We can go on for you
And take you nearer to
The legend of mystery
From the beginning of time."

HOW, I ask?
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:11 am

Wooley wrote:I mean, how do you top:

"Traveling faster than lightning
Closer than ever before
We can go on for you
And take you nearer to
The legend of mystery
From the beginning of time."

HOW, I ask?
That's poetry, that is. Were you not familiar with "Easy Livin"? WRNO used to play that all the time back in the day.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Wooley » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:19 am

Captain Terror wrote: That's poetry, that is. Were you not familiar with "Easy Livin"? WRNO used to play that all the time back in the day.
I thought maybe I'd heard it some time, but it wasn't familiar. And I actually even got a full tour of the WRNO station once. But it was good.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:10 am

Takoma1 wrote: The less benevolent reading is that the message is that men and women can never be JUST friends.
That's my beef. Just for personal reasons it's disappointing because over the years it's been made very clear to me that lots of people seem to believe that, so it would be nice if the movie didn't reinforce that idea for those people.
But personal issues aside, I still think the original ending would make for a more provocative, less cliched movie. Maybe less of a crowd-pleaser and therefore less of a hit, but probably more interesting.
Again, I'm lamenting the movie we didn't get but that doesn't mean I'm complaining about the one we did get. It's not Nora Ephron's fault that I hang out with chicks. :)
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Thief » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:11 pm

Captain Terror wrote:WHEN HARRY MET SALLY (1989)

----Spoilers follow----
Full disclosure: I'm a dude and my best friend is a woman. If any of you have been in this situation, you'll know that all of your other friends are just counting the days until the two of you bang each other's brains out. You become like their real-life Jim & Pam. To make matters worse, our friendship began in 1990 when this film was still very much fresh in everyone's minds and Harry's "he just wants to nail you" monologue had pretty much been accepted as law. It's been an uphill battle trying to convince people that it's a real thing, so a result I've always been a bit disappointed that this film chickened out and didn't follow through on the friendship thing. Lo and behold, I came across this last night after watching the film:

The script initially ended with Harry and Sally remaining friends and not pursuing a romantic relationship because (Ephron) felt that was "the true ending", as did Reiner. Eventually, Ephron and Reiner realized that it would be a more appropriate ending for them to marry, though they admit that this is generally not a realistic outcome.

Reading between the lines, I'm interpreting "more appropriate ending" to mean "audiences would lynch us if they didn't marry at the end". I liked this film a lot, but had they stuck to their original idea it really would've put it over the top for me. Not just because of my personal stake in the matter, but because no rom-com ends that way. But every rom-com ends the way this one did. So that was a missed opportunity, in my opinion. Also, this is a possible explanation for what I thought was the biggest misstep: I don't like what happened to Sally's character after they "do it". I feel like she transitioned into "in love" too abruptly. Knowing now that the ending was changed, this feels like it might be the splice where the original story meets the new ending. Not a deal-breaker, just the only part that didn't feel earned to me.

Having said all that, the movie we're left with is pretty great. Very funny and for most of it I felt like it was refreshingly devoid of the usual rom-com contrivances. I think stretching the story over 12 years helped in that regard; things felt like they were happening organically (Except for the thing I mentioned above). The whole Meg Ryan era was sort of lost on me at the time, but I can see the appeal. And I could've watched 2 hours of Bruno Kirby playing Pictionary.
Orson Welles said "if you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." With that said, I don't think it's at all farfetched that the two ended up together, but the film covers what? 10-15 years of relationship? So I'm sure you could count several "not so happy" endings. Reiner just decided to stop the film at one of the "happy endings" the couple had. What I like the most is how true the relationship between Harry and Sally feels... and I'm not talking about the "romantic" relationship, but rather their relationship, the way it grows and evolves. It's easily my #1 romantic film.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:39 pm

Thief wrote: Orson Welles said "if you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." With that said, I don't think it's at all farfetched that the two ended up together, but the film covers what? 10-15 years of relationship? So I'm sure you could count several "not so happy" endings. Reiner just decided to stop the film at one of the "happy endings" the couple had. What I like the most is how true the relationship between Harry and Sally feels... and I'm not talking about the "romantic" relationship, but rather their relationship, the way it grows and evolves. It's easily my #1 romantic film.
Ah ha! Do you recognize that as a happily married fella you interpreted "just friends" to mean "unhappy ending"? See what I'm up against???? :x
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Thief » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:33 pm

Captain Terror wrote: Ah ha! Do you recognize that as a happily married fella you interpreted "just friends" to mean "unhappy ending"? See what I'm up against???? :x
That's why I put the quotations. Not necessarily how I interpret it, but rather how people equate "being together" with the traditional "happy ending". I would've been okay with them ending up as friends, but like I said, what I like most about the film is to see how a relationship between two strangers and probably complete opposites flourishes, grows, and evolves. Regardless of how Harry and Sally end up at the end of the film, you still can see that two people can be "friends", regardless of whether they're together as a couple or not.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:08 pm

Thief wrote: That's why I put the quotations. Not necessarily how I interpret it, but rather how people equate "being together" with the traditional "happy ending".
oops, I missed the quotes, sorry.
I was actually going to make the same point last night but deleted it. The original ending would have allowed a viewer to imagine "oh well, one day they'll wise up and get together" if they were so inclined. While those of us who've chosen this path in life would have a film to rally around: "See? It can work!" Both sides win. But as it stands now, the most prominent film to deal with this topic includes a sex scene and ends in marriage, so it just sort of feels like my team lost.
And I don't want this discussion to distract from how much I liked the film. I would probably consider it my favorite rom-com of the modern era (the post-Cary Grant years, if you will). The marriage at the end is sort of like Heston's brown-face in Touch of Evil. I wish it wasn't there, but the film is still a classic.
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crumbsroom
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by crumbsroom » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:01 am

crumbsroom wrote:Hahaha, slashers. Not the deepest pool to be swimming in.
Okay

Don't Go Into the Woods
Blood Rage
House on Sorority Row
Popcorn
Mortuary
Fade to Black
Last Horror Film
Slumber Party Massacre II

And if you're brave
Maniac
Don't Go Into the House

Yes, some are these are terrible, but I think they all have their distinct 'charms'
I forgot about Visiting Hours, which is a pretty seriously underrated one. Shame on me.
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Captain Terror
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Captain Terror » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:59 am

crumbsroom wrote:
I forgot about Visiting Hours, which is a pretty seriously underrated one. Shame on me.
Was someone recently discussing The Final Terror? If so I can't remember if it was a thumbs up or down.

EDIT: Never mind, just remembered the search function. The Final Terror earned the Wooley Seal of Approval. Added to the list!
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Takoma1
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Takoma1 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:44 am

crumbsroom wrote:I forgot about Visiting Hours, which is a pretty seriously underrated one. Shame on me.
I will go to bat for Visiting Hours any time. I think it's not only underrated, but genuinely pretty great. I also really like that it takes three types of women characters that you tend to get with a male psycho killer (the object of obsession, the outside observer/do-gooder, and the dominated girlfriend) and pulls them together in the narrative.

I also think that it's very bold in terms of showing us the flashbacks to
the killer's abuse at the hands of his father and the violence he witnessed toward his mother--but showing that he's living with the father and has absorbed those same attitudes toward women.
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Wooley
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Wooley » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:29 pm

Captain Terror wrote: Was someone recently discussing The Final Terror? If so I can't remember if it was a thumbs up or down.

EDIT: Never mind, just remembered the search function. The Final Terror earned the Wooley Seal of Approval. Added to the list!
Yeah that was me, it really surprised me (for the level of film that it is, which is like very small film-crew and maybe a coupla cameras at the turn of the 70s/80s).
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crumbsroom
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by crumbsroom » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:59 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
I will go to bat for Visiting Hours any time. I think it's not only underrated, but genuinely pretty great. I also really like that it takes three types of women characters that you tend to get with a male psycho killer (the object of obsession, the outside observer/do-gooder, and the dominated girlfriend) and pulls them together in the narrative.

I also think that it's very bold in terms of showing us the flashbacks to
the killer's abuse at the hands of his father and the violence he witnessed toward his mother--but showing that he's living with the father and has absorbed those same attitudes toward women.
Agreed. And to consistently read the distaste so many critics have for the film, seemingly not grasping that this is a film about misogyny, instead of simply being misogynistic, is frustrating considering it is a really important distinction that any critic that was half paying attention should be able to make.
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Takoma1
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:15 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Agreed. And to consistently read the distaste so many critics have for the film, seemingly not grasping that this is a film about misogyny, instead of simply being misogynistic, is frustrating considering it is a really important distinction that any critic that was half paying attention should be able to make.
It was really baffling to me when I started looking up reviews about it after I saw it for the first time. In almost any other film, the busty blonde who (yes, unwisely) goes home with the killer after meeting him in a bar would be given a "she deserved it" edit. But not only is she portrayed sympathetically, she continues to be part of the narrative. I even appreciated the conversation between her and the nurse where she says she won't try to press charges because she knows that she won't be taken seriously because of her actions.

There are so many slashers/horror films that are full of gross sexism, and I agree with you in being confused that the film's clear, negative portrayal of misogyny is so frequently overlooked. Heck---even the fact that the main character is allowed to be a smart outspoken middle-aged woman sets it apart.
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crumbsroom
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by crumbsroom » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:19 am

Takoma1 wrote:
It was really baffling to me when I started looking up reviews about it after I saw it for the first time. In almost any other film, the busty blonde who (yes, unwisely) goes home with the killer after meeting him in a bar would be given a "she deserved it" edit. But not only is she portrayed sympathetically, she continues to be part of the narrative. I even appreciated the conversation between her and the nurse where she says she won't try to press charges because she knows that she won't be taken seriously because of her actions.

There are so many slashers/horror films that are full of gross sexism, and I agree with you in being confused that the film's clear, negative portrayal of misogyny is so frequently overlooked. Heck---even the fact that the main character is allowed to be a smart outspoken middle-aged woman sets it apart.
It's an old complaint, but the reality is that most critics are grossly lazy, and this laziness comes out even more when they are dealing with genre films.

For me, the most important place to look when diagnosing the level of misogyny in these sorts of film, is how the film views its female characters. All three of the women in Visiting Hours are fully fleshed out, nuanced women who are unwilling to be played as anyone's victim. The second place to look is towards how the film presents the man responsible for the violence.
Michael Ironside in this film is about as virulent a misoginyst as I've seen in any film. But he is portrayed as a loathesome, unrepentant, unlovable jerk whose views towards women are shown to more a reflection of what a broken man he truly is inside. Just look at the way he dresses for every scene in the film when he is skulking about in the street in villain mode (leather jacket, boots, jeans), and the one scene where is tending to his abusive father in the hospital (looking kind of ridiculous in a knit sleeveless vest, much like a little boy would wear). He's a grown child, still under the thumb of his father destructive personality. He's a man who is so fragile he feels himself to be less of a man simply because he is employed as the guy who vaccuums the set of a show that gives voice to the feminist character that Lee Grant plays. As tough and mean as he wants to be seen, he is a total zero. And the film knows this.
Now contrast this with a film which is pretty similar in that it is a character study of a similarly awful misogynyst (Don't Answer the Phone...a movie best left very unwatched) but which views the female victims as nothing but outlets for this man's rage, and adopts a position which seems to be a wingman to the villains anti-woman crusade. It leers over the violence with the camera and when he sermonizes about how much he hates women, there is a kind of reverence in how the words are written and how he is filmed while speaking. When you place these two films right next to eachother, the difference between their intent is striking. One is a film which shows us misogyny, and one that seems to be embracing it. But I imagine for all of the critics out there, they would take away the same thing. They are films with ugliness in them, so this means their only intent was ugliness.

Ugh.
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Re: We Didn't Start The 80s

Post by Jinnistan » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:33 am

I'm trying to remember which poster at RT was the one who gave me shit for recommending Visiting Hours when it played on TCM.

I mean, classic, folks. It's right there.
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