Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Thief » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:36 pm

Wooley wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:10 pm
Your Vice Is A Locked Room…
The Burbs
Wake In Fright
The Manchurian Candidate
Blue Velvet
Existenz
Dead Ringers
Femme Fatale
Belladonna Of Sadness
Escape From New York
Copycat
Bird Box
Enemy
Green Room
Blue Ruin
Endgame
The Deer Hunter
From your list, these are the only ones I've seen. I liked/loved all of them to varying degrees, although I haven't seen Blue Velvet, eXistenZ, Femme Fatale, or Copycat (is that the 90s one with Sigourney Weaver?) in a looooong time.

I would say Wake in Fright, Manchurian Candidate, Belladonna of Sadness, and The Deer Hunter are essentials.

Green Room and Blue Ruin make for a great double-header.

Enemy is probably my favorite from this bunch.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:23 pm

Wooley wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:10 pm
Lost Highway
Walkabout
Wake In Fright
Alice Sweet Alice
Blue Velvet
(Amazon)
Antichrist
Enemy (Netflix)
Blue Ruin (Netflix)
Endgame (Amazon)
Videodrome *50th rewatch
These are the only ones I've seen, but I enjoyed them all to varying degrees.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Captain Terror » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:14 pm

Wooley wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:10 pm

The Visitor
Eyes Without A Face
Wake In Fright
Valerie and Her Week Of Wonders
Alice Sweet Alice
Belladonna Of Sadness
The Tenant
These are my favorites from your list, which is not to say that they're the "best", necessarily. Belladonna is quite a thing. I think you'll like that one.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:19 am

Thief wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:36 pm
From your list, these are the only ones I've seen. I liked/loved all of them to varying degrees, although I haven't seen Blue Velvet, eXistenZ, Femme Fatale, or Copycat (is that the 90s one with Sigourney Weaver?) in a looooong time.

I would say Wake in Fright, Manchurian Candidate, Belladonna of Sadness, and The Deer Hunter are essentials.

Green Room and Blue Ruin make for a great double-header.

Enemy is probably my favorite from this bunch.
Yeah, the serial-killer one from the 90s where Harry Connick Jr. is a killer that Sigourney Weaver put away but now there's a Copycat killer to him and he's after her and Holly Hunter is the cop on the case. I don't remember if I thought it was very good or not (I saw it in the theater) but it had Harry Connick Jr. in a neat role and as a New Orleanian, that was enough for me.

Wake In Fright, Belladonna and Green Room are all ones I'm pretty strong on. I really do need to get around to seeing The Deer Hunter, it was such a big deal when it hit cable when I was a kid.

Your strong vote for Enemy is definitely noted.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:25 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:23 pm
These are the only ones I've seen, but I enjoyed them all to varying degrees.
What are your thoughts on Endgame? I don't know much about it other than that it's D'Amato's and and is one of these post-apocalyptic fantasies I tend to enjoy.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:29 am

Captain Terror wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:14 pm
These are my favorites from your list, which is not to say that they're the "best", necessarily. Belladonna is quite a thing. I think you'll like that one.
I'm seeing multiple votes already for Alice Sweet Alice, which really is super-high on my priorities, and Wake In Fright.
I really wanna get Valerie done, I've been meaning to watch that for so long.
And The Visitor has to be slam-dunk, right?
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:47 am

Wooley wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:25 am
What are your thoughts on Endgame? I don't know much about it other than that it's D'Amato's and and is one of these post-apocalyptic fantasies I tend to enjoy.
You haven't seen it yet? Try not to look up any spoilers if you don't know how it ends. One of my friends spoiled it for me a couple days before I saw it despite me telling him I didn't want to know how it ended like a day or so earlier. Ugh.

Overall, I found it to be a truly fascinating and fairly grand culmination of the first 11 years of the MCU. A couple people felt it was boring, but I thought the slower, less action packed moments did a great job at exploring the griefs of the various superheroes and how their failure to stop Thanos affected them. Seeing this was quite emotionally powerful as it did a thorough job at showing how everything fell apart for them. As Thief and DaMU discussed in the Recently Seen thread, the way it handles this aspect won't gel for everyone (and understandably so), but I wasn't bothered by this as I felt there were enough meaty character-driven moments in the film to excuse this. Also, like Infinity War, I think this one did a great job at keeping itself from feeling overstuffed despite it circling back between multiple characters throughout it. At first, I was a bit bugged by some of the fan service during the time travel scenes, but this only mildly bugged me for a bit. I also felt like a certain scene near the end wouldn't work as well as it did without a certain moment of fan service during the middle. The final battle looked impressive and it contained a few memorable scenes throughout the fight and the final act is as great of an ending as this phase could ask for. Overall, I was really satisfied with it.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:08 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:47 am
You haven't seen it yet? Try not to look up any spoilers if you don't know how it ends. One of my friends spoiled it for me a couple days before I saw it despite me telling him I didn't want to know how it ended like a day or so earlier. Ugh.

Overall, I found it to be a truly fascinating and fairly grand culmination of the first 11 years of the MCU. A couple people felt it was boring, but I thought the slower, less action packed moments did a great job at exploring the griefs of the various superheroes and how their failure to stop Thanos affected them. Seeing this was quite emotionally powerful as it did a thorough job at showing how everything fell apart for them. As Thief and DaMU discussed in the Recently Seen thread, the way it handles this aspect won't gel for everyone (and understandably so), but I wasn't bothered by this as I felt there were enough meaty character-driven moments in the film to excuse this. Also, like Infinity War, I think this one did a great job at keeping itself from feeling overstuffed despite it circling back between multiple characters throughout it. At first, I was a bit bugged by some of the fan service during the time travel scenes, but this only mildly bugged me for a bit. I also felt like a certain scene near the end wouldn't work as well as it did without a certain moment of fan service during the middle. The final battle looked impressive and it contained a few memorable scenes throughout the fight and the final act is as great of an ending as this phase could ask for. Overall, I was really satisfied with it.
Heh.
Sorry.
I was talking about the Joe D'Amato, post-apocalyptic, Euro-trash film, Endgame, from 1983.

Image

I have seen Avengers: Endgame.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:15 am

Wooley wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:08 am
Heh.
Sorry.
I was talking about the Joe D'Amato, post-apocalyptic, Euro-trash film, Endgame, from 1983.

Image

I have seen Avengers: Endgame.
Ah, gotcha.

Yeah, I haven't even heard of that one.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Slentert » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:09 am

I'm probably the least knowledgeable person on this entire forum when it comes to these kind of cult movies, but I just wanted to chime in and say Miracle Mile is one of my favorite movies and Let The Corpses Tan is one of the wildest, most bewildering movies I ever saw in a theater (I made the mistake of taking my parents with me who are not exactly the right kind of audience for these kind of bizarro films). It is definitely style over substance, but from the good kind. Watch the trailer for it, it gives you the perfect idea of what the movie is like.

Of course, Lost Highway and Blue Velvet are masterpieces, but you already knew that, I'm sure.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Captain Terror » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:17 pm

Wooley wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:29 am
And The Visitor has to be slam-dunk, right?
Correct! Lots of fun.

And Slentert is correct about Let the Corpses Tan. To give you an idea, there's a scene where one character urinates on another, and it might be the most beautiful shot in the film.

I would also recommend Amer if you can find it, although that might be more of an October movie.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:43 pm

Queen of Spades!
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Thief » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:53 pm

Wooley wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:08 am
Heh.
Sorry.
I was talking about the Joe D'Amato, post-apocalyptic, Euro-trash film, Endgame, from 1983.

Image

I have seen Avengers: Endgame.
And here I was thinking you were referring to the MCU film as well :D
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:25 pm

Slentert wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:09 am
I'm probably the least knowledgeable person on this entire forum when it comes to these kind of cult movies, but I just wanted to chime in and say Miracle Mile is one of my favorite movies and Let The Corpses Tan is one of the wildest, most bewildering movies I ever saw in a theater (I made the mistake of taking my parents with me who are not exactly the right kind of audience for these kind of bizarro films). It is definitely style over substance, but from the good kind. Watch the trailer for it, it gives you the perfect idea of what the movie is like.

Of course, Lost Highway and Blue Velvet are masterpieces, but you already knew that, I'm sure.
Yeah, Miracle Mile sounds like I gotta see it.
LtCT looked like a lot of my kinda fun.
BV was big when I was in high school, never saw Lost Highway, Lynch and I have never quite gelled, but maybe I just haven't watched the right movies. In fact, the only Lynch movies I've seen are Eraserhead, The Elephant Man, Dune, and Wild At Heart.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:26 pm

Captain Terror wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:17 pm
I would also recommend Amer if you can find it, although that might be more of an October movie.
Man, I been tryin' to watch Amer for like nearly a decade but I haven't been able to find it anywhere.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:29 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:43 pm
Queen of Spades!
Yeah, that one looks really good.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:30 pm

Also, I realized I had left off two films:

The Strange Color Of Your Body's Tears
The Forbidden Room


They are now added to the Big List.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:44 pm

These would be my top picks

Blood and Black Lace (Amazon)
Your Vice Is A Locked Room… [this one is also on Prime, btw]
Beyond The Black Rainbow
Lost Highway
The Burbs[/i][/b] (Amazon)
Phase IV (Amazon)
Possession
Eyes Without A Face
Walkabout
Long Weekend
(Amazon)
Wake In Fright
Valerie and Her Week Of Wonders
Picnic At Hanging Rock
Torso
Alice Sweet Alice
The Manchurian Candidate
(Amazon)
Blue Velvet[/i][/b] (Amazon)
The Forbidden Room[/i][/b]
Let The Corpses Tan (Amazon)
Hardcore (Amazon)
Cutter’s Way (Amazon)
Light Sleeper (Amazon)
Dead Ringers *rewatch
Belladonna Of Sadness
The Queen Of Spades
The Tenant
Road Games
The Cat and the Canary [is this the 1927 version or the Bob Hope version? - I strongly recommend the former]
Enemy (Netflix)
Green Room (Netflix)
Blue Ruin (Netflix)
A Scanner Darkly (Amazon)
The Neon Demon (Amazon)
The Deer Hunter
Buckaroo Banzai (Amazon) *rewatch
Videodrome *50th rewatch
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:50 pm

Wooley wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:08 am
I was talking about the Joe D'Amato, post-apocalyptic, Euro-trash film, Endgame, from 1983.
Along those lines, I would suggeest Fulci's low budget but fun New Gladiators, also on Prime at the moment, a film that looks like a cheap rip-off of Running Man until you notice that it was actually made several years earlier. Definitely has its charms.


Image
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Captain Terror » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:56 pm

Wooley wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:26 pm
Man, I been tryin' to watch Amer for like nearly a decade but I haven't been able to find it anywhere.
Being the last person on earth that still rents discs from Netflix has its advantages.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Captain Terror » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:02 pm

I might've recommended this in the past, but I think Mikey and Nicky is tailor-made for your September thing. I was able to stream it on Tubi in the past year for free and it appears to still be available there. Reminds me of a lot of the other stuff you've written about in this thread.

Trailer:
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Takoma1 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:11 am

These are all the ones I've seen from your list, divided into three groups:

Must See (* = particular personal favorite)
The Burbs
And Then There Were None (30s version, or the Amazon miniseries? I'd recommend both but they are really different!)
Possession*
Eyes Without A Face*
Walkabout
Wake In Fright*
Valerie and Her Week Of Wonders*
Picnic At Hanging Rock*
Curtains
Alice Sweet Alice*
Miracle Mile*
Dead Ringers
Blue Ruin*
Videodrome


Yeah, It's Alright
Beyond The Black Rainbow
Lost Highway
Long Weekend
Blue Velvet
Antichrist
Darby O’Gill and The Little People
Escape From New York
Road Games
The Cat and the Canary
Copycat
Enemy
A Scanner Darkly
The Neon Demon

Meh
Existenz
The Eyes Of Laura Mars
Buckaroo Banzai
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Rock » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:20 am

Wooley wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:10 pm
Blood and Black Lace (Amazon)
The Visitor
Your Vice Is A Locked Room…
Phase IV (Amazon)
Possession
Eyes Without A Face
Walkabout
Long Weekend
(Amazon)
Wake In Fright
Picnic At Hanging Rock
Torso
Miracle Mile
Blue Velvet
(Amazon)
Southern Comfort (Amazon) *rewatch
Hardcore (Amazon)
Cutter’s Way (Amazon)
Light Sleeper (Amazon)
Dead Ringers *rewatch
Femme Fatale
Belladonna Of Sadness
Escape From New York *rewatch
The Tenant
Green Room (Netflix)
Blue Ruin (Netflix)
Death Wish (Amazon) *rewatch
The Deer Hunter
Buckaroo Banzai (Amazon) *rewatch
Videodrome *50th rewatch


I do not object to these (although giallo are definitely October-worthy for me).
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:27 am

A recent rewatch of Road Games made me suddenly realize how good a movie it is.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:30 am

Eyes of Laura Mars. Ugh.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:31 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:11 am
Meh
Existenz

Buckaroo Banzai
You're killin' me.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Takoma1 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:47 pm

Wooley wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:31 am
You're killin' me.
Facts is facts, bro.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:28 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:47 pm
Facts is facts, bro.
Yeah, Existenz is pretty close to my least favorite Cronenberg. I think I probably even preferred Fast Company, which is probably a seriously stupid opinion, but here we are.

EDIT: I just looked over his entire filmography, and while I have not seen Stereo or M Butterfly, I'm pretty sure it's literally at the bottom.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:33 pm

Wooley wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:10 pm

Fade To Black (Amazon)
Blood and Black Lace (Amazon)
The Visitor
Your Vice Is A Locked Room…
Lost Highway
The Burbs
(Amazon)
Phase IV (Amazon)
Possession
Eyes Without A Face
Walkabout
Long Weekend
(Amazon)
Wake In Fright
Valerie and Her Week Of Wonders
Picnic At Hanging Rock
Curtains
Torso
Alice Sweet Alice
The Manchurian Candidate
(Amazon)
Class Of Nuke’em High (Amazon) *rewatch
Blue Velvet
(Amazon)
The Forbidden Room[/i][/b]
Hardcore (Amazon)
Cutter’s Way (Amazon)
Turkey Shoot (Amazon)
Dead Ringers *rewatch
Femme Fatale
The Queen Of Spades
Antichrist
Escape From New York *rewatch
Inland Empire
The Tenant
All The Colors Of The Dark
Dead End Drive-In
Road Games
The Cat and the Canary
Enemy (Netflix)
Green Room (Netflix)
Blue Ruin (Netflix)
The Deer Hunter
Videodrome *50th rewatch


That vast majority of these are really good to great. The rest are at least interesting curiosities.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:48 pm

I chose 5 at random. I expect to be included with everyone who put some thought into their choices

The Burbs
Blue Velvet
The Strange Color Of Your Body's Tears
All The Colors Of The Dark
Fair Game
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Jinnistan » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:18 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:47 pm
Facts is facts, bro.
Is someone crying, out there in the darkness?
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Apex Predator » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:59 pm

Wooley wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:10 pm

Again, my criteria for Pre-Horrorthon is gonna be thrillers (including slashers with fully human killers, as they don't really work for me as Halloween movies, but ramp-up in that direction), cult movies, weird movies, darker sci-fi/fantasy stuff, gritty street-movies or revenge movies, etc.
Thanks, in advance for your input!

Dreamscape (Amazon) *rewatch
Fade To Black (Amazon)
Blood and Black Lace (Amazon)
The Visitor
Your Vice Is A Locked Room…
Beyond The Black Rainbow
Lost Highway
The Burbs
(Amazon)
And Then There Were None (Amazon)
Phase IV (Amazon)
Possession
Eyes Without A Face
Walkabout
Long Weekend
(Amazon)
Wake In Fright
Valerie and Her Week Of Wonders
Picnic At Hanging Rock
The Exterminator
*rewatch
Curtains
Torso
Alice Sweet Alice
The Manchurian Candidate
(Amazon)
Class Of Nuke’em High (Amazon) *rewatch
Miracle Mile
Blue Velvet
(Amazon)
The Strange Color Of Your Body's Tears
The Forbidden Room

Southern Comfort (Amazon) *rewatch
Let The Corpses Tan (Amazon)
Pray For Death (Amazon)
Hardcore (Amazon)
Existenz (Amazon)
Cutter’s Way (Amazon)
Light Sleeper (Amazon)
Turkey Shoot (Amazon)
Dead Ringers *rewatch
Femme Fatale
Belladonna Of Sadness
The Queen Of Spades
Antichrist
Darby O’Gill and The Little People
*rewatch
Escape From New York *rewatch
Inland Empire
The Tenant
All The Colors Of The Dark
Dead End Drive-In
Road Games
Fair Game
Dead Of Winter
(Amazon) *rewatch
The Cat and the Canary
Copycat
(Netflix) *rewatch
Bird Box (Netflix)
Enemy (Netflix)
Green Room (Netflix)
Blue Ruin (Netflix)
Scared To Death (Amazon)
Orca (Amazon) *rewatch
A Scanner Darkly (Amazon)
Endgame (Amazon)
Death Wish (Amazon) *rewatch
The Neon Demon (Amazon)
The Eyes Of Laura Mars (Amazon)
Green Ice (Amazon) *rewatch
The Deer Hunter
Saturn 3
(Amazon)
Buckaroo Banzai (Amazon) *rewatch
Videodrome *50th rewatch
I'll rate those I've seen:

Go for it:
Enemy (It fits your criteria fairly well, and the story definitely needs to be paid attention to)
Green Room (Both Saulnier films listed are worth seeing)
Blue Ruin
And Then There Were None (If that's the miniseries that aired on PBS, it looked pretty good)

Caution:
Blue Velvet (there were some wonderful things, though like Dennis Hopper's performance and the ageless Laura Dern)
Copycat (recommended for its performances, mainly)

Stop:
The Burbs (I just didn't vibe with what that film was trying to sell)

Consider:
Hold the Dark/Murder Party (since you want to check out Saulnier, here's his other two films)
Hausu (This will take care of your oddness quotient for September AND October)
Director's Cut (Barely qualifies as a thriller, but it might give you moments of amusement)
Destiny (Something about this 1921 Fritz Lang movie feels like a September film for you)
Repo the Genetic Opera (I think this has been unfairly maligned by critics; this cult rock opera based on the graphic novel series could be for you particularly if you like Phantom of the Paradise)
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:14 pm

Apex Predator wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:59 pm
Murder Party
I kind of love this one.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Takoma1 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:13 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:14 pm
I kind of love this one.
I had a mixed reaction to the "intentional awkwardness" vibe.

And I thought that the whole part at the end of
pretentious snobs think that murder is just art! Get it! People think they know what art is!
.

That said, some parts made me laugh really long and hard, not the least of which was his power struggle with his cat Sir Lancelot over who gets to sit in the chair.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Apex Predator » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:39 pm

I think Murder Party is a good way to warm up for the Blue Ruins and Green Rooms of his filmography.

Although you could argue that the pretentious artist angle has been overdone, it offers glimpses into the dark humor and the thoughtful narratives (aka What do I do now) that make up his later stuff.

And it's fun, too!
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by crumbsroom » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:17 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:13 pm
I had a mixed reaction to the "intentional awkwardness" vibe.

And I thought that the whole part at the end of
pretentious snobs think that murder is just art! Get it! People think they know what art is!
.

That said, some parts made me laugh really long and hard, not the least of which was his power struggle with his cat Sir Lancelot over who gets to sit in the chair.
The fact that the movies basic target is an easy one didn't really bother me. For me it was all of the details and jokes and characters that led it to this conclusion. Is it in the service of anything profound. Nah. But I feel it gets a lot of mileage out of its long rehashed joke about the inherent emptiness behind so much art.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:38 am

Jinnistan wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:50 pm
Along those lines, I would suggeest Fulci's low budget but fun New Gladiators, also on Prime at the moment, a film that looks like a cheap rip-off of Running Man until you notice that it was actually made several years earlier. Definitely has its charms.


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I've actually seen this two or three times and had it on in the background as recently as two months ago.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:23 pm

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Stirred up by all the chatter about The Winter Soldier, I decided to go back and re-watch a real 70s espionage/can-we-trust-our-own-government movie, specifically the one that is so often trotted out as a sort of spiritual ancestor to the Marvel film.
Here we have the story of a quirky young CIA researcher, not trained as a field-agent, who goes out for lunch and comes back to find everyone dead. His whole office is murdered, including his girlfriend, and he's off on the run. Not knowing who to trust or where to begin, he kidnaps a woman at gunpoint. Because that's what you do.
This is a movie I have historically admired but I remembered being troubled by something about it and watching it probably 16 years after my most recent viewing and 30 years after my first, I was reminded very quickly what it was. For all that the film does so well to be admired after all this time, it also has one major problem that sticks out like a sore thumb. I am speaking, of course, about the super-awkward, totally Stockholm Syndrome, shoe-horned-in, frankly kinda gross romance between Redford, who earlier in the same day as their first coital encounter, has found 6 of his co-workers murdered, and held his dead girlfriend’s body in his arms, and Dunaway, who earlier that same day was abducted at gunpoint by Redford and later tied to the toilet and gagged with her own stockings. Yet here they are, passionately boning and in the morning, after a night of sleep (during which Dunaway does not try to escape her captor), she is apologizing to him for her behavior! No joke, in reacting to the fact that she has just had sex with a man who abducted her at gunpoint, she has somehow transgressed and broken trust and apologizes. Somehow we are to see this whole situation as believable and even more strangely as spontaneous romance between captor and captive, rather than borderline rape, some kind of mental illness, or simply utterly unbelievable behavior from the “female lead” (read, supporting character) written into the script because her motivation doesn't matter as long as it moves the script.
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Romance!

Honestly, this was such a distraction for me it was hard to just roll with the movie. The plot hinges enough on how much her character helps, by breaking the law and putting herself in situations for which she could probably spend life in prison to a help a man she met yesterday, Redford in his mission to save himself from assassination and delve down to the truth. But there is absolutely no reason she should, it is absolutely nuts that any of this happens, and it makes the whole film just unbelievable. I have considered much lately about how women have historically had to navigate the Hollywood system and really, I think Three Days Of The Condor might be the best example I’ve seen in a long time. The idea that this was a good role for an A-list woman like Faye Dunaway just because she is so good in it, when in fact it is a role in which a seemingly independent woman completely loses even any sense of self-preservation the moment a handsome man comes abducting. I was troubled.
Anyway, the Robert Redford parts of the movie are good and work well even if there is ultimately a lot of him just suddenly realizing the next important plot point and saying it out loud (to the audience) and then Cliff Robertson explaining the details (to the audience). There are some really good scenes and really good moments, including one from John Houseman. Max von Sydow doesn’t shine so much as steal every scene he’s in, even from the camera-seducing Redford, without so much as clearing his throat.
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Sydney Pollack does do another really nice job directing here, the film moves, it has tension, it has suspense, it has a good feel. The script is imperfect but eventually gets where it's going with some help from some eureka-moments and expository dialogue. Ultimately, it’s a good thriller, if not a great one, but really carries some very, very troublesome baggage.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Death Proof » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:41 pm

Blue Velvet holds a special place in my heart. Some of you may remember my Blue Velvet shot-by-shot thread from RT. (which I never had a chance to finish, unfortunately)


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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:52 pm

Yeah, the sexual dynamics of Three Days of the Condor are really unfortunate.

I think that the movie banks too much on us the audience knowing that Redford's character is a good guy, and thus that Dunaway's decision to trust him (and fall in love with him) is a good one. I'm never a huge fan of the whole sequence that goes: woman is afraid of being raped, man does not rape her, man is rewarded with sex. Even if you set aside sexual violence (ie even if her character isn't actually scared he will rape her), there are still a TON of reasons for her character to be afraid of him--namely that he might be mentally ill or might be a murderer. Also, while we the audience are supposed to believe he wouldn't hurt someone innocent, doesn't he say something to her the first night like "If you try to get up I'll hurt you"? Again: banking far too much on our understanding of him as a hero and not reflecting the real fear that a woman in her position would have.

It's a shame, because I think that if the movie hadn't gone there, there are actually some interesting moments as the relationship develops between them. There's a part where he talks about her photographs. And though it has been many years since I've seen it, I do remember a part where he ties her up and she yells in frustration something like "This is unfair" and he replies, "I know." There is a spark between them and some really strong emotions from their different points of view. He's afraid for his own life, he's realizing he's put this woman in danger, he doesn't know who to trust, etc. She's being held captive by someone who may be a killer, but at the same time there is something in his manner that she trusts.

I wish they'd either (1) just not let things get sexual between them or (2) taken her wanting to help him to an extreme, almost as something suicidal.

Their relationship aside (because it's actually pretty unnecessary to the story, in my opinion), it's a pretty thrilling film. Von Sydow is great, as you note, and the different twists and turns make for a compelling pace.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:29 pm

Takoma1 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:52 pm
Yeah, the sexual dynamics of Three Days of the Condor are really unfortunate.

I think that the movie banks too much on us the audience knowing that Redford's character is a good guy, and thus that Dunaway's decision to trust him (and fall in love with him) is a good one. I'm never a huge fan of the whole sequence that goes: woman is afraid of being raped, man does not rape her, man is rewarded with sex. Even if you set aside sexual violence (ie even if her character isn't actually scared he will rape her), there are still a TON of reasons for her character to be afraid of him--namely that he might be mentally ill or might be a murderer. Also, while we the audience are supposed to believe he wouldn't hurt someone innocent, doesn't he say something to her the first night like "If you try to get up I'll hurt you"? Again: banking far too much on our understanding of him as a hero and not reflecting the real fear that a woman in her position would have.

It's a shame, because I think that if the movie hadn't gone there, there are actually some interesting moments as the relationship develops between them. There's a part where he talks about her photographs. And though it has been many years since I've seen it, I do remember a part where he ties her up and she yells in frustration something like "This is unfair" and he replies, "I know." There is a spark between them and some really strong emotions from their different points of view. He's afraid for his own life, he's realizing he's put this woman in danger, he doesn't know who to trust, etc. She's being held captive by someone who may be a killer, but at the same time there is something in his manner that she trusts.

I wish they'd either (1) just not let things get sexual between them or (2) taken her wanting to help him to an extreme, almost as something suicidal.

Their relationship aside (because it's actually pretty unnecessary to the story, in my opinion), it's a pretty thrilling film. Von Sydow is great, as you note, and the different twists and turns make for a compelling pace.
Exactly.
The whole movie is actually fixed, I think, if they simply don't have sex. It was unnecessary to the plot or the characters (in fact it makes them both seem kinda creepy given the reasons I've noted) and it actually makes the film less credible (and awkwardly dated). If she just starts to trust him so she doesn't run away in the night then the next day she fully believes him when a guy with a machine-gun comes to kill him and he credibly fights them off, the movie runs smooth as glass and the relationship is credible and unproblematic. I don't know why they decided to make that choice. I have seen Pollack blamed but I don't know if that's true.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Takoma1 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:24 pm

Wooley wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:29 pm
Exactly.
The whole movie is actually fixed, I think, if they simply don't have sex. It was unnecessary to the plot or the characters (in fact it makes them both seem kinda creepy given the reasons I've noted) and it actually makes the film less credible (and awkwardly dated). If she just starts to trust him so she doesn't run away in the night then the next day she fully believes him when a guy with a machine-gun comes to kill him and he credibly fights them off, the movie runs smooth as glass and the relationship is credible and unproblematic. I don't know why they decided to make that choice. I have seen Pollack blamed but I don't know if that's true.
Well, the first time I watched the movie, as soon as they had a scene together it was obvious they had pretty strong sexual chemistry. I literally remember thinking, even as he bundled her into a car or whatever at gunpoint(?), "They are going to end up having sex and it's going to be really hot and really messed up." And I was right!

I think that the Hollywood element of the film just couldn't resist having two sexy people with sexy chemistry not go to bed together.

I honestly am trying to remember the nature of the sex scene. Does she cry at one point? Am I just misremembering that?
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Rock » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:32 am

Yeah, I remember Max Von Sydow being the best part of that movie, one of those cases where an actor brings real weight to what's essentially a solid entertainment. (Still kinda annoyed they wasted him in one of the new Star Wars.) Looking back at what I wrote in my blog/RT post way the heck back, it seems I too was annoyed by the sex scene although I don't have much in the way of specifics.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:16 am

Takoma1 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:24 pm
Well, the first time I watched the movie, as soon as they had a scene together it was obvious they had pretty strong sexual chemistry. I literally remember thinking, even as he bundled her into a car or whatever at gunpoint(?), "They are going to end up having sex and it's going to be really hot and really messed up." And I was right!

I think that the Hollywood element of the film just couldn't resist having two sexy people with sexy chemistry not go to bed together.

I honestly am trying to remember the nature of the sex scene. Does she cry at one point? Am I just misremembering that?
No, I don't think she does. I think it's treated pretty much like, Yeah, I just found all my coworkers murdered and held my dead girlfriend in my arms a few hours ago, but I let's bone and hot!, Yeah, you just abducted me at gun point and tied me to my own toilet a few hours ago, but agree let's get it on!
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:18 am

Rock wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:32 am
Yeah, I remember Max Von Sydow being the best part of that movie, one of those cases where an actor brings real weight to what's essentially a solid entertainment. (Still kinda annoyed they wasted him in one of the new Star Wars.)
Ugh. That was almost as infuriating as everything else about these movies.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Thief » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:05 pm

I agree with the sexual thing in The Three Days of the Condor. It was my main big issue with it, not only because of what it might imply or how it might be perceived, but also because it isn't necessary to how the plot unfolds.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:11 pm

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Caught completely off-guard by this movie.
I don’t even know why I watched this movie. I can’t imagine what mood I must have been in that this movie would appeal to.
But whatever expectation I had, it was tossed out the window of a speeding car but like one chunk at a time.
This is the adventure of a once-successful poet-cum-Key West-personality who has fallen into such a groove that his life seems to have no purpose but to lay in that groove til death. But then, maybe there is more depth to him than that. To say more, in my opinion, would be to spoil the adventure.
The premise, really, seems so rote, like what could McConaughey and director Harmony Korine possibly have thought they could wring out of the idea of the former as a laid-back, accidental Bodhisattva that has not already been done and possibly to death?
And yet…
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This film had so much more depth to it than I ever would have seen coming, depth in the actual story and the characters and in the way they are portrayed, but also in the aesthetic, the lighting, the editing, the music, and definitely the performances. McConaughey doesn’t do a retread here or even a parody, he takes this thing he has made to possibly its greatest height so that somehow not only does it not feel tired, it feels truly inspired.
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Isla Fisher is pitch-perfect in an interesting, meaty role. To my shock and awe, several performers I have no particular love for as actors all really shone in unexpected ways. Snoop was Snoop but he was Snoop actually being this character that he played and it’s really, really perfect for the film. Zac Efron? I mean, good for you, kid. Martin Fucking Lawrence? A performer I have always kinda loathed… nope, totally delivers. Jimmy Buffet? Yes, Jimmy Buffet, which seems like it’s going to be such a pointless gimmick, ends up adding, in the context of this little world the film creates, just the right grace-note in a less-is more appearance. I’ve never heard of the actress who plays Heather, Moondog’s daughter, but she was great. If there is a speed-bump, it’s Jonah Hill, who seems too affected, until I thought that that is exactly the way his character would be… not really sure where I landed on him.
Ultimately, I started on a movie I had little interest in that I thought I knew exactly what it would be about and, perhaps because I had no expectations and didn’t know anything about the plot, I became totally wrapped up in its charms.
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I’ve seen mixed reviews, some quite positive, others calling it the worst movie of McConaughey’s career. In my opinion, to call The Beach Bum a “bad film” is dishonest and in bad faith.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:26 pm

The Beach Bum may be my favorite movie of the year.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by Wooley » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:03 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:26 pm
The Beach Bum may be my favorite movie of the year.
That's what I'm talkin' about.
I was wondering if I was on an island on this one.
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Re: Wooley Watches Movies, Makes Thread

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:13 am

Wooley wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:03 am
That's what I'm talkin' about.
I was wondering if I was on an island on this one.
It's at the very least an island of two. It's like Easy Rider meets the Big Lebowski meets Spring Breakers. I once called it "the Tree of Life of stoner comedies" and stand by that.

My favorite little moment is in the opening when he playfully kicks a trashcan (Trashhumpers) then lovingly plays with a white cat (Gummo), which felt like Korine telling you from the get go that this wasn't going to make you miserable or uncomfortable; it's here to have a good time.
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