Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Discuss anything you want.
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2836
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Jinnistan » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:02 am

Wooley wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:30 am
I think I put this after Kill, Baby, Kill, Black Sunday, and Black Sabbath, but a fine and beautiful addition that actually delivers on the story.
I prefer Lace to Sabbath, but they're not far apart in quality. Other than that, completely agree.
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2635
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Wooley » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:04 am

Jinnistan wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:02 am
I prefer Lace to Sabbath, but they're not far apart in quality. Other than that, completely agree.
Yeah, I just think the opener and closer of Sabbath are stunning. The middle one's fine. But "Wurdelak" is like the last great thing Karloff ever did and one of the last legitimately fairly scary vampire films and is just overall pretty gripping.

I do have to say, I thought B&BL would bring everybody out of the woodwork, I know it's popular around here. Well, moving on...
ThatDarnMKS
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:16 am

B&BL is my favorite Bava and perhaps my favorite giallo. I need to rewatch Tenebrae and Torso to be sure though.

Check out Hatchet for the Honeymoon next. I think it's Bava's only other giallo to come close. He has other dang groovy gialli but I think those two are in a league of their own.
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2635
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Wooley » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:30 am

Image
Holy fuckballz, what a movie!
Yet another, in such a long line, as I've talked about for years, of "classics" I never watched because of some combination of "I'm saving it" and "It can't possibly live up to its hype" that has absolutely dick-punched me.
What a fuckin' movie.
Despite its fame, I knew almost nothing going into this movie except that it seemed that some country rube was gonna go to New York and end up on the sleazier side of the street, somehow involving Dustin Hoffman's character, who I knew nothing about except that he seemed sleazy. Imagine my surprise to learn that it's a movie about a genuine friendship between to desperately lonely marginalized people.
Image
Two people who meet at about the best they're gonna be and just weather the downhill struggle together the best they can. I mean, this movie kinda broke my heart a little. While it was knocking me on my ass.
And despite some startling and weighty and at times beautiful work by director John Schlesinger, the movie hangs its considerable weight on the performances of two actors who just feel absolutely all-in.
Jon Voight (sadly now a caricature of the most awful sort of people America has to offer) gives a painfully raw and open performance as small-town Texan, Joe Buck, a boy with big, if pathetic, ideas about how he's going to conquer the world...
Image
And Dustin Hoffman, perhaps my personal winner for best pure actor from the great crop of 70s actors (Meryl Streep excluded from the game as she really fully emerged at the turn of the 80s) giving just a crushing, tragic performance as perhaps one of the most pathetic characters ever to grace the screen, Enrico "Ratso" Rizzo, a "cripple" hustling just barely well enough to get by in an unforgiving city, surviving more by lying to himself and dreaming than anything else.
Image
I mean, a performance like this... it's just not something you see very often. There are great performances and there is Dustin Hoffman just completely giving himself over to being this pitiful human being. It's chilling.

Really this movie was simultaneously (paradoxically) exactly what I expected and nothing like what I expected. It's, narratively, very nearly exactly the film I thought it might be (understand again, I intentionally kept myself as much in the dark on this movie, for decades now, as I could) and yet, thematically, emotionally, something I never saw coming. It is a deeply empathetic film, while also being an almost unpleasantly bleak film, while also being, really, a straight-up art-film, and all of these just naturally a part of the whole.
For all the grief the Academy gets, boy sometimes (Best Picture, 1970, only X-rated film ever to win) they get it so right.
I could say so much more about this film, about cinematography, about dream-sequences, about homophobia, about its unflinching (for 1969) frankness about the city, poverty, homosexuality, desperation, sex, liberation, about great supporting performances, I feel like I could talk about it for days, but I'll just leave it here, as one of the best films I've seen in a very long time.
User avatar
Jinnistan
Posts: 2836
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Jinnistan » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:57 am

Wooley wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:04 am
But "Wurdelak" is like the last great thing Karloff ever did
As good as it is, I have to steer you towards Targets, if you haven't seen that one. It isn't quite Karloff's last film (he cranked out a couple of shitty low-budget ones after that), but it sums up his legacy better than any of his later films. A phenomenal "horror" film that is as much about the then (1968) shifting cultural presumptions of violence, in an age of civil strife and Vietnam, as it is about the genre's more traditional triggers.

Also, I believe Grinch was after Sabbath, and without trying to be cliched, uh....pretty fucking great, imo.
User avatar
MadMan
Posts: 10630
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:56 pm
Location: RT FOREVER
Contact:

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by MadMan » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:43 am

A thread like this inspires me to actually do a Top 100 Horror films with commentary, but my regular time job has left me so tired. Go forth, sir.
This Is My Blog. There Are Many Like It But This One Is Mine
Shitty Film Thread
Follow Me On Twitter If You Aren't Doing So Already
The MadMan Reserved 31 Seats
"I think its time we discuss your, uh....philosophy of drug use as it relates to artistic endeavor." -Naked Lunch (1991)
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2635
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Wooley » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:31 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:57 am
As good as it is, I have to steer you towards Targets, if you haven't seen that one. It isn't quite Karloff's last film (he cranked out a couple of shitty low-budget ones after that), but it sums up his legacy better than any of his later films. A phenomenal "horror" film that is as much about the then (1968) shifting cultural presumptions of violence, in an age of civil strife and Vietnam, as it is about the genre's more traditional triggers.

Also, I believe Grinch was after Sabbath, and without trying to be cliched, uh....pretty fucking great, imo.
Good point on Grinch/Sabbath.

I'll look into Targets, thanks.
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2635
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Wooley » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:34 pm

MadMan wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:43 am
A thread like this inspires me to actually do a Top 100 Horror films with commentary, but my regular time job has left me so tired. Go forth, sir.
It's fun, but it is time-consuming. A lot of effort in saying something coherent about a film and finding good images to reflect what you want to say.
Worthwhile, ultimately, but it's a pretty narrow margin when you consider the time and effort, you really have to just do it for yourself and personal satisfaction and hope somebody actually reads it but not worry if no one does or says a word.
User avatar
Captain Terror
Posts: 1707
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Captain Terror » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:18 pm

Wooley wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:44 pm
Honestly, it's not very good, but it has to be seen, just part of the the universe. The music is much less inspired but still has enough moments and weirdness and a few good songs. The title track is the highlight with songs like "Bitchin' In The Kitchen", "Lullaby", "Look What I Did To My Id", and "Duel Duet" working out ok. Really the movie lacks the personalities and the hooks of the first film but if you have a curio cabinet of weird movies, you could put it in there.
Watched it last night and mostly agree. I was into it. I think the big difference between the two films is that only one of them has Tim Curry. Replace him with someone less awesome and I suspect the two films wouldn't seem so far apart.
It's disappointing that O'Brien & Sharman haven't done more over the years. (I suspect that O'Brien is the main thrust here, but I'm combining them anyway because I know nothing about the situation). Granted, something like ST is going to appeal to a very specific (and small) audience, but I was very impressed with how committed they were to this world they'd created. Whether you like the film or not, there's no denying that it is its own thing. And it feels connected in spirit to Rocky. I'd like to have seen more from this team.
User avatar
crumbsroom
Posts: 2380
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by crumbsroom » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:54 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:57 am
As good as it is, I have to steer you towards Targets, if you haven't seen that one. It isn't quite Karloff's last film (he cranked out a couple of shitty low-budget ones after that), but it sums up his legacy better than any of his later films. A phenomenal "horror" film that is as much about the then (1968) shifting cultural presumptions of violence, in an age of civil strife and Vietnam, as it is about the genre's more traditional triggers.

Also, I believe Grinch was after Sabbath, and without trying to be cliched, uh....pretty fucking great, imo.
It's not nearly as good as either Targets or Black Sabbath, but The Sorcerers has its place in the Karloff canon.
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2635
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Wooley » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:59 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:54 pm
It's not nearly as good as either Targets or Black Sabbath, but The Sorcerers has its place in the Karloff canon.
I really think Karloff is one of the most under-appreciated actors I can think of, and I mean in their own time. I'll never understand how he didn't get more high-brow work.
When you consider his dual (duel?) performances in The Black Room, look at Isle Of The Dead, consider The Body Snatcher (maybe his finest moment), listen to what he did with How The Grinch Stole Christmas, and then, more subtly, look at how much more interesting his portrayal of the Frankenstein monster is to Lon Chaney Jr., Bela Lugosi, and Glenn Strange, where the creature is just a mindless avatar of horror instead of something that is really struggling with itself, you see that Karloff was a real actor and one with significant dramatic range. It's really strange to me that it either was never recognized or that people simply didn't want to utilize his obvious talent.
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2635
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Wooley » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:08 pm

Captain Terror wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:18 pm
Watched it last night and mostly agree. I was into it. I think the big difference between the two films is that only one of them has Tim Curry. Replace him with someone less awesome and I suspect the two films wouldn't seem so far apart.
It's disappointing that O'Brien & Sharman haven't done more over the years. (I suspect that O'Brien is the main thrust here, but I'm combining them anyway because I know nothing about the situation). Granted, something like ST is going to appeal to a very specific (and small) audience, but I was very impressed with how committed they were to this world they'd created. Whether you like the film or not, there's no denying that it is its own thing. And it feels connected in spirit to Rocky. I'd like to have seen more from this team.
Yeah, it's an oddity that I'm glad exists but I don't want to spend too much of my time on it. I think the movie loses me during "Thank God I'm A Man", a seemingly out-of-place number that's uninspired both musically and visually, really blunt and unsophisticated, and again with "Me Of Me" for more or less the same reasons.
Then it'll pull me back in with things like "Shock Treatment", "Little Black Dress" (not a great number but kinda fun), "Lullaby", and "Look What I Did To My Id".
But I agree with you, it's mostly in the personalities. Cliff DeYoung and Jessica Harper are both trained singers (compared to their predecessors who really weren't) but they just don't have the same magnetism as Bostwick and Sarandon. And DeYoung, again, is no Tim Curry.
I agree I'd like to have seen much more from O'Brien and Sharman and I suspect if Shock Treatment had worked out better we would have.
User avatar
Captain Terror
Posts: 1707
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Captain Terror » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:30 am

And oh yeah, you should definitely watch Targets
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2635
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Wooley » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:39 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:16 am
B&BL is my favorite Bava and perhaps my favorite giallo. I need to rewatch Tenebrae and Torso to be sure though.

Check out Hatchet for the Honeymoon next. I think it's Bava's only other giallo to come close. He has other dang groovy gialli but I think those two are in a league of their own.
Oh, I'd overlooked this post, thanks, I will try to check that. And Torso has been on the list for a while it may happen this month.
User avatar
Slentert
Posts: 964
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:23 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Slentert » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:05 pm

I just wanted to say I love this thread. Makes me want to put some more effort in my own.
User avatar
Thief
Posts: 1889
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:20 pm
Location: Puerto Rico
Contact:

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Thief » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:22 pm

I hadn't checked this thread in a while, but I'm glad to read your Dementia 13 write-up. I've been curious about it for a while, and it's available on a couple of streaming services, but I hadn't gotten to it.
--- UNDER CONSTRUCTION ---
User avatar
Wooley
Posts: 2635
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Wooley » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:36 pm

Slentert wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:05 pm
I just wanted to say I love this thread. Makes me want to put some more effort in my own.
Hey man, thanks a lot, I really appreciate that.

Makes me wanna work harder on it and deliver more content.
(But I have a date tonight. ;) )
User avatar
Captain Terror
Posts: 1707
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Captain Terror » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:59 pm

Wooley wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:36 pm

Makes me wanna work harder on it and deliver more content.
(But I have a date tonight. ;) )
And what are WE supposed to do in the meantime?
Bros before hoes!
User avatar
Slentert
Posts: 964
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:23 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by Slentert » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:26 pm

Wooley wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:36 pm
Makes me wanna work harder on it and deliver more content.
(But I have a date tonight. ;) )
In that case, I'll look forward to your review of your date night. ;)
User avatar
MadMan
Posts: 10630
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:56 pm
Location: RT FOREVER
Contact:

Re: Pre-Horrorthon 2: Wooley's Edge Of October

Post by MadMan » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:17 am

Wooley wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:34 pm
It's fun, but it is time-consuming. A lot of effort in saying something coherent about a film and finding good images to reflect what you want to say.
Worthwhile, ultimately, but it's a pretty narrow margin when you consider the time and effort, you really have to just do it for yourself and personal satisfaction and hope somebody actually reads it but not worry if no one does or says a word.
Well fuck it I'm still reading. PARTY ON, WAYNE.
This Is My Blog. There Are Many Like It But This One Is Mine
Shitty Film Thread
Follow Me On Twitter If You Aren't Doing So Already
The MadMan Reserved 31 Seats
"I think its time we discuss your, uh....philosophy of drug use as it relates to artistic endeavor." -Naked Lunch (1991)
Post Reply