Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

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Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:29 pm

Saturday, October 12, 2019
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Prospero's Books (Peter Greenaway, 1991)
An exiled magician (John Gielgud) finds an opportunity for revenge against his enemies muted when his daughter (Isabelle Pasco) and the son of his chief enemy (Mark Rylance) fall in love in this uniquely structured retelling of the 'The Tempest'.


Class Trip Discussion Thread

Past Trips, Senior Year:

#1 - Ex Drummer (2007, Koen Mortier, Belgium) | Slentert
#2 - The Territory (1981, Raul Ruiz, Portugal) | Rock
#3 - Wake In Fright (1971, Ted Kotcheff, Australia) | Popcorn Reviews
#4 - Night Must Fall (1964, Karel Reisz, UK) | Captain Terror
#5 - Fat Girl (2001, Catherine Breillat, France | Oxnard Montalvo
#6 - Marseille (2004, Angela Schanelec, Germany) | Oxnard Montalvo
#7 - Hunger (1966, Henning Carlson, Den/Swede) | Popcorn Reviews
#8 - Eden and After (1970, Alain Robbe-Grillet, France) | Jinnistan


Past Trips, Junior Year:

#1 - La maternelle (1933, Jean Benoît-Lévy & Marie Epstein, France) | wigwam
#2 - Time and Winds (2006, Reha Erdem, Turkey) | Oxnard Montalvo
#3 - Clean, Shaven (1993, Lodge Kerrigan, USA) | Popcorn Reviews
#4 - Diabeł (1972, Andrzej Żuławski, Poland) | Oxnard Montalvo
#5 - Black Friday (2004, Anurag Kashyap, India) | Rock
#6 - Schizopolis (1996, Steven Soderbergh, USA) | Slentert
#7 - Hearts and Minds (1974, Peter Davis, USA) | Popcorn Reviews
#8 - Xtro (1982, Harry Bromley Davenport, UK) | crumbsroom
#9 - The House (1997, Šarūnas Bartas, France) | Oxnard Montalvo
#10 - Spider-Baby (1967, Jack Hill, USA) | Slentert
#11 - Oh Lucy! (2017, Atsuko Hirayanagi, Japan/USA) | Shieldmaiden
#12 - The Heartbreak Kid (1972, Elaine May, USA) | Jinnistan

Past Trips, Sophomore Year:

#1 - The Worthless (1982, Mika Kaurismäki, Finland) | snapper
#2 - Shopping for Fangs (1997, Quentin Lee and Justin Lin, USA) | takeshi
#3 - The Heart of the Wise Lives in the House of Sorrow (2009, Marin Malešević, Serbia) | Shieldmaiden
#4 - The Forbidden Quest (1993, Peter Delpeut, Netherlands) | kopello
#5 - São Bernardo (1972, Leon Hirszman, Brazil) | Bandy Greensacks
#6 - Evdokia (1971, Alexis Damianos, Greece) | Epistemophobia
#7 - The Ball at the Anjō House (1947, Kōzaburō Yoshimura, Japan) | snapper
#8 - Sérail (1976, Eduardo de Gregorio, France) | takeshi
#9 - Passport for a Corpse (1962, Mario Gariazzo, Italy) | JediMoonShyne
#10 - Aksuat (1997, Serik Aprimov, Kazakhstan) | Shieldmaiden
#11 - Dangerously Excited (2011, Koo, South Korea) | wigwam
#12 - Himala (1982, Ishmael Bernal, Philippines) | snapper

Past Trips, Freshman Year:

#1 - Distant Journey (1949, Alfréd Radok, Czechoslovakia) | snapper
#2 - Nanami: The Inferno of First Love (1968, Susumu Hani, Japan) | Das
#3 - The Policewoman (2003, Joaquim Sapinho, Portugal) | charulata
#4 - Freeze, Die, Come to Life! (1989, Vitali Kanevsky, USSR) | Bandy Greensacks
#5 - The Perfume of the Lady in Black (1974, Francesco Barilli, Italy) | Trip
#6 - Weddings and Babies (1958, Morris Engel, USA) | snapper
#7 - The Man with Three Coffins (1987, Lee Jang-ho, South Korea) | Notes from Underground
#8 - Malina (1991, Werner Schroeter, Germany) | Shieldmaiden
#9 - Bad Luck (1960, Andrzej Munk, Poland) | B-Side
#10 - The Girl with the Suitcase (1961, Valerio Zurlini, Italy) | JediMoonShyne
#11 - The Engagement of Anna (1972, Pantelis Voulgaris, Greece) | BandyGreensacks
#12 - Our Neighbor, Miss Yae (1934. Yasujirō Shimazu, Japan) | snapper
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:30 pm

as always drop me a PM if you need help finding this one
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:02 pm

I'll be there.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Jinnistan » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:10 am

I'll be happy to rewatch this one.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:08 pm

I should warn everyone that I am not much of a Shakespeare buff so I can't give any scintillating insights on how I felt this does or does not improve the text.

I have seen Forbidden Planet but that's not the same thing
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:39 pm

I can't promise much, but I'll try to fill in any Shakespeare blanks. I read the play not too long ago.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:03 pm

I read it a couple years ago. I'm sure some details have slipped my mind, but I'd say I have a fairly good understanding of the play.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by LEAVES » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:05 pm

Don’t worry, this is not an adaptation of the play.

How boring that would be!
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:43 pm

Don't worry, LEAVES is joking.

Maybe.

It is an adaptation of the play.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by LEAVES » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:47 pm

Shieldmaiden wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:43 pm
Don't worry, LEAVES is joking.

Maybe.

It is an adaptation of the play.
I certainly never listen to anything that the old man is saying - and he speaks every line of dialogue for every character, unlike the actual play - and there’s very little about the film that you would find in a faithful adaptation of the play. To say that it is an adaptation seems a bit too strong. It’s perhaps more accurate to say that the play is a jumping off point, or, perhaps better, “The words of the play are read as Greenway ignores all stage directions and does whatever the hell he wants anyway.”

After all, a huge part of the film is elements slightly mentioned in the play, like the books, that Greenaway takes as a central figure. And then there’s the opera, and the digital trickery, and the processions that are moving tableaus, and the fact that Greenaway’s film is all in the mind of Prospero...

Really, all you have to know is this:

Shakespeare’s play is called The Tempest.

Greenaway’s tempest is a small child urinating on a model ship. It’s not an adaptation, it’s an improvement!
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:43 pm

LEAVES wrote:I certainly never listen to anything that the old man is saying
John Gielgud, performing Shakespeare. :(

Other than that, I mostly agree. Yes, it's great! But strange, creative, personal, crazy adaptations are still adaptations. And if you were to read the play/listen to the words you'd find it's all there in the tableaux and split screens and processions and urinating!
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:36 am

I may nor may not watch this tomorrow due to some unexpected real-life drama that just came up but I will get to it eventually.
friend of mine who has been in fragile health since was 5 just got admitted to the hospital, don't know anything else as of now but I'm hoping I'm just overreacting. he better be okay 'cause I'm not watching El Camino without him.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:25 am

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:36 am
I may nor may not watch this tomorrow due to some unexpected real-life drama that just came up but I will get to it eventually.
friend of mine who has been in fragile health since was 5 just got admitted to the hospital, don't know anything else as of now but I'm hoping I'm just overreacting. he better be okay 'cause I'm not watching El Camino without him.
Sorry to hear that. Best of luck to you with it.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:38 am

thanks. I'm only worried because they usually don't tell me about every single health scare (because it's not like it's my business); I might just be getting this news so I know not to go over his house tomorrow for our scheduled playdate (fingers crossed).

EDIT: yeah, I'll be seeing y'all next weekend at the earliest. sorry about all this
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:53 am

This would be a good film to revisit in the future if I reread the play, because I feel like I would've gotten more out of it if the events of the play were fresh in my mind. Some sequences which I remembered well such as the ship sinking in the opening stuck out quite a bit as bizarre and inventive while other scenes which I didn't remember quite as well had a somewhat similar effect except that I wasn't feeling those scenes quite as deeply as I was with other portions of the film. However, I'd like to point out that this isn't meant as a critique towards the film. It definitely has a clear effect which is akin to Greenaway leaving the story of the play as it is, yet providing his own weird and crazy take on it. I can't deny this effect. If I rewatch this one down the road (which wouldn't be a bad idea), I imagine I'll feel this effect to a much larger degree, so please take my opinion with a grain of salt.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by crumbsroom » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:59 am

Is this the movie where you get to finally see John Gielgud's dick?

Or did I only imagine such a movie exists?
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:02 am

Thankfully, no.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by crumbsroom » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:34 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:02 am
Thankfully, no.
I'll pass.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:48 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:34 am
I'll pass.
To be fair though, there's about a couple hundred or so other penises in the film, so one of them has to make up for Dielgud's absence.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by crumbsroom » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:58 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:48 am
To be fair though, there's about a couple hundred or so other penises in the film, so one of them has to make up for Dielgud's absence.
There are not enough penises in the world...
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Jinnistan » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:15 am

If John Gielgud exposed his penis in a film, would anyone know? Would anyone have more than a vague impression? The man is head-to-toe skin and shaft.

I mean, Dudley would find a way to let you know. Probably.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:43 am

Out of curiosity, does anyone else have any thoughts on this one? I know I didn't offer a lot of thoughts on it and I wish I could've provided more as this one probably deserved it, but I did have some difficulty getting into this one as I mentioned above, despite how unique and creative it obviously was. However, it was still a very interesting way of adapting the play, and I'm definitely going to give it another shot down the road. I'm just hoping that more people use this thread.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:49 pm

I'm hoping I get the opportunity to watch it this weekend. my friend is out of the hospital and I'll be seeing him/watching El Camino together so if I have time after that I'll let you know what I think. (unfortunately I already promised work that I'd be in on Saturday, I had been working extra to keep my mind off of things)

until then, how many other Greenaways have you seen, PR?
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:46 pm

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:49 pm
I'm hoping I get the opportunity to watch it this weekend. my friend is out of the hospital and I'll be seeing him/watching El Camino together so if I have time after that I'll let you know what I think. (unfortunately I already promised work that I'd be in on Saturday, I had been working extra to keep my mind off of things)

until then, how many other Greenaways have you seen, PR?
If you're comfortable with sharing that is, is your friend feeling better? As for this film, I'm in no hurry. Get to it whenever you're comfortable with it.

Also, this is my first Greenaway. It was definitely an interesting experience and I'll keep an eye out for his other films in the future. I've heard his name recommended a couple times on this site.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:29 pm

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:46 pm
If you're comfortable with sharing that is, is your friend feeling better?
I'm not entirely sure, he's at least well enough to be in his home and take visitors but I still worry.
the whole story is: my friend was paralyzed from the neck down when he was 5. his growth was/is terribly compromised i.e. he doesn't have enough skin/muscle/fat to protect himself. for years his bedsores have been getting bad enough that he can't it in his chair for more than two-three hours; for the past few months he has been making weekly trips to the hospital to get stuff cleaned (maybe even longer than that, there's a lot he doesn't tell me and a lot I don't ask about 'cause it's probably not my business). from what his mom told me it sounds like he got an infection that went septic and got into his blood. assuming the doctors fixed him up, he still has a few months of recovery but I still worry because I don't know how much can be prevented going forward.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:25 pm

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:29 pm
I'm not entirely sure, he's at least well enough to be in his home and take visitors but I still worry.
the whole story is: my friend was paralyzed from the neck down when he was 5. his growth was/is terribly compromised i.e. he doesn't have enough skin/muscle/fat to protect himself. for years his bedsores have been getting bad enough that he can't it in his chair for more than two-three hours; for the past few months he has been making weekly trips to the hospital to get stuff cleaned (maybe even longer than that, there's a lot he doesn't tell me and a lot I don't ask about 'cause it's probably not my business). from what his mom told me it sounds like he got an infection that went septic and got into his blood. assuming the doctors fixed him up, he still has a few months of recovery but I still worry because I don't know how much can be prevented going forward.
Oh, sorry to hear all that. That sounds really rough for sure. Hopefully, he'll be able to recover from it.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:13 am

Popcorn Reviews wrote:Out of curiosity, does anyone else have any thoughts on this one?
I was holding out for Oxnard to come back.

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:I'm hoping I get the opportunity to watch it this weekend.
And... now you have, so I'll try to rewatch this on Saturday.

Hope your friend's recovery continues steadily.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:32 pm

I didn't get the chance to watch it this weekend, sorry y'all. but it will be first priority next weekend when I have a full two days off.
friend is doing okayish, still can't sit in his chair though. El Camino was fine as well.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:46 pm

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:46 pm
Also, this is my first Greenaway. It was definitely an interesting experience and I'll keep an eye out for his other films in the future. I've heard his name recommended a couple times on this site.
I'd say he is good, although I don't have much experience with his main influences (Renaissance painting, Baroque painting, Flemish painting) so I just let him wash over me and hope I enjoy the imagery. like a hayseed enthralled by them pretty pictures. so I can't exactly give you primer but hopefully this was accessible since it is based off of an already well-known story.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:15 pm

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:46 pm
I'd say he is good, although I don't have much experience with his main influences (Renaissance painting, Baroque painting, Flemish painting) so I just let him wash over me and hope I enjoy the imagery. like a hayseed enthralled by them pretty pictures. so I can't exactly give you primer but hopefully this was accessible since it is based off of an already well-known story.
I don't have a lot of experience with those art movements as well. I'd say this was a pretty good starting point for his filmography though. It wasn't too hard to follow and it showed off Greenaway's talents pretty well.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by LEAVES » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:28 pm

One recommendation: Check your library system and see if they have the screenplay for the film. Since the film is just the play the “screenplay” would be simple, but Greenaway is an outspoken opponent of starting a film based on words... which is why I don’t mind not listening to any of them. Also, Shakespeare didn’t feature any opera...
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by crumbsroom » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:39 pm

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:46 pm
If you're comfortable with sharing that is, is your friend feeling better? As for this film, I'm in no hurry. Get to it whenever you're comfortable with it.

Also, this is my first Greenaway. It was definitely an interesting experience and I'll keep an eye out for his other films in the future. I've heard his name recommended a couple times on this site.
I'm pretty cold on Greenaway, but I loved Draughtsmans Contract.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:24 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:39 pm
I'm pretty cold on Greenaway, but I loved Draughtsmans Contract.
I'll keep an eye out for it then. Out of curiosity, have you seen this one? If so, what are your thoughts on it?
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by crumbsroom » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:37 pm

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:24 pm
I'll keep an eye out for it then. Out of curiosity, have you seen this one? If so, what are your thoughts on it?
Not this one, no. I would have probably watched it for this until Jinnistan spoiled everything by telling me there was no Gielgud full frontal.

I can't even remember what else I've seen from him. Zed and Two Naughts. Fascinating but I kinda hated. Outside of that I'm drawing a blank.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Slentert » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:46 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:37 pm
I can't even remember what else I've seen from him. Zed and Two Naughts. Fascinating but I kinda hated. Outside of that I'm drawing a blank.
I love that movie. When I watched it I was giggling the entire time, thinking "this movie was made just for me".

I have not seen another Greenaway movie since.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by crumbsroom » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:11 am

Slentert wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:46 pm
I love that movie. When I watched it I was giggling the entire time, thinking "this movie was made just for me".

I have not seen another Greenaway movie since.
It's one I know I should revisit. But it really aggravated me on my first viewing. Not even entirely sure why.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Slentert » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:16 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:11 am
It's one I know I should revisit. But it really aggravated me on my first viewing. Not even entirely sure why.
I think a lot of people would feel that way about it. It's so in your face with all its nihilism. Same way I think a lot of people feel towards Yorgos Lanthimos.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:31 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:37 pm
Not this one, no. I would have probably watched it for this until Jinnistan spoiled everything by telling me there was no Gielgud full frontal.

I can't even remember what else I've seen from him. Zed and Two Naughts. Fascinating but I kinda hated. Outside of that I'm drawing a blank.
And to make matters worse, Gielgud is of the probably 1% of the cast who don't show any nudity.

All kidding aside, I'd still give this one a shot anyways. Even if it leaves you cold, it's still interesting at the very least.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:08 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:37 pm
I would have probably watched it for this until Jinnistan spoiled everything by telling me there was no Gielgud full frontal.
This is not what I said. What I said was that John Gielgud is always full frontal. Because he looks like a penis. You've known this since Arthur. I merely aroused your memory.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:23 pm

I'm getting the sense that not enough of you have seen The Cook The Thief His Wife & Her Lover. Maybe a little obvious, being that this is probably his best-known film, at least in the States, but aside from being my intro to Greenaway, I think it's probably close to his tour de force. The film is just so luscious and nasty. Prospero isn't too far behind.

There's still a few I haven't seen - The Falls, Drowning By Numbers, 8 1/2 Women (which I immediately confused with Ozon's 8 Women, which is great), haven't even heard of these Tulse Luper things, or anything since except Eisenstein in Guanajuato.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:41 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:23 pm
I'm getting the sense that not enough of you have seen The Cook The Thief His Wife & Her Lover. Maybe a little obvious, being that this is probably his best-known film, at least in the States, but aside from being my intro to Greenaway, I think it's probably close to his tour de force. The film is just so luscious and nasty.
I have and found it a rockin' good time. sometimes it can be refreshing to have all your senses assaulted like that.
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crumbsroom
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by crumbsroom » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:14 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:23 pm
I'm getting the sense that not enough of you have seen The Cook The Thief His Wife & Her Lover. Maybe a little obvious, being that this is probably his best-known film, at least in the States, but aside from being my intro to Greenaway, I think it's probably close to his tour de force. The film is just so luscious and nasty. Prospero isn't too far behind.

There's still a few I haven't seen - The Falls, Drowning By Numbers, 8 1/2 Women (which I immediately confused with Ozon's 8 Women, which is great), haven't even heard of these Tulse Luper things, or anything since except Eisenstein in Guanajuato.
Oh that's right, he did Cook. I love that. So I guess he is battling 50/50 for me. Pretty sure also saw Drowning by Numbers, which I don't think left me with much as I don't remember a thing about it.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:18 pm

crumbsroom wrote:It's one I know I should revisit. But it really aggravated me on my first viewing. Not even entirely sure why.
I felt that way the first time I saw it, but it vastly improved on a rewatch.

Jinnistan wrote:haven't even heard of these Tulse Luper things
I'm a big fan: https://corrierino.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 5#p1168155.

LEAVES wrote:Since the film is just the play the “screenplay” would be simple, but Greenaway is an outspoken opponent of starting a film based on words... which is why I don’t mind not listening to any of them.
No one said it was "just the play." Also, check out this interview:

The Hollywood Reporter: Was your connection to Goltzius something that made you put a lot of thought into the selection of who would play him in the film?

Peter Greenaway: You are referring to Ramsey Nasr, who played Goltzius. Did you know he is The Netherlands’ Poet Laureate? He is a great wordsmith, and I write very word-conscious scripts. So maybe he was the ideal person to bring that to life.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:26 pm

I think I'd rank his full-length films like so:

Drowning by Numbers
A Zed and Two Noughts
The Tulse Luper Suitcases, Parts 1, 2, and 3
Prospero's Books
The Cook, The Thief...
The Falls
Eisenstein in Guanajuato
The Draughtsman's Contract
The Belly of an Architect
Goltzius and the Pelican Company
8½ Women
The Pillow Book
Nightwatching
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by LEAVES » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:00 pm

Shieldmaiden wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:18 pm
I felt that way the first time I saw it, but it vastly improved on a rewatch.


I'm a big fan: https://corrierino.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 5#p1168155.




No one said it was "just the play." Also, check out this interview:

The Hollywood Reporter: Was your connection to Goltzius something that made you put a lot of thought into the selection of who would play him in the film?

Peter Greenaway: You are referring to Ramsey Nasr, who played Goltzius. Did you know he is The Netherlands’ Poet Laureate? He is a great wordsmith, and I write very word-conscious scripts. So maybe he was the ideal person to bring that to life.
...but he didn’t write words for Prospero’s Books. But he did publish a screenplay which has way, way, way more content than the words of the play.

His films use words, but he is an outspoken opponent of his films being based on words instead of images and ideas. His screenplays are image and idea based, and the words fit within the flow of images and ideas and scenes, they’re not the basis or the only representation of those ideas and images.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:44 am

welp, I finally, finally, finally saw the movie I had asked you all so nicely to watch and while I dug it, I don't know if I can write a lot about it. the sumptuous and density of the images was lovely, kept me enthralled. as I said earlier, it's hard for me to describe his appeal to me beyond "great imagery" but! that's what the cinema can be good for.

I didn't find it terribly 'nasty' though (quoting Janson) except for the scene where it looked like someone took a watery shit on one of the books (during the scene where they go to Caliban's swamp). that and the woman opening herself up. but even then all I could think of was "wow, hadn't seen anything like that before". also enjoyed all the love shining through during the scenes between the newlyweds, probably my favorite example of this quote from Greenaway:

"The cinema is about other things than storytelling. What you remember from a good film—and let's only talk about good films—is not the story, but a particular and hopefully unique experience that is about atmosphere, ambience, performance, style, an emotional attitude, gestures, singular events, a particular audio-visual experience that does not rely on the story."
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by LEAVES » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:13 pm

Not sure what to write about?

This is an adaptation of The Tempest by the most revered playwright in the English language - and the Tempest in the film is a child urinating on a toy boat floating in a pool. That is to say: There’s nothing in the play that appears in the film unadulterated, unsullied, unnecessarily stripped of vitality out of some ridiculous sense of a need to maintain fidelity to a long dead artist who actually had a sense of humor. In a world full of adaptations of works, from restaging plays that are hundreds or thousands of years old to adapting comic books to films before the comic books have even been released, it’s difficult to imagine one as irreverent as this, and we should be thankful!

If this film is anything, it is an ode to art writ large. It is an adaptation of a play, it centers around books (which are somewhat alive, to be sure, but that doesn’t make them less lovable!), the film’s monster is represented via dance, there is an extended sequence of opera found nowhere in the play... the list could go on. That there would be a list in a Greenaway film is pretty obvious, but, still. One of Greenaway’s primary loves is painting, of course, and that should be highlighted - there are numerous scenes of nothing but processions, a tableaux in a painting with innumerable cultural details littering the frame and adorning each character. We speak of costume design in other films because the costumes look nice or are period appropriate - here they actually quite literally tell the story through the techniques of tableaux painters of the past. What can we say about any of these scenes? Only as much as any of these paintings, plus more owing to the life of the moving image.

To not have something to say about the film is to decide not to talk about all of the innumerable things to talk about, to laugh about, to talk about why things are so rigid and unnaturalistic and why and how refreshing it is to be freed from a “naturalistic” cinema that focuses on unnaturalistic plotlines with meaningless images focused only on logistical details and exceedingly unlikely events... The only question is why you would stop talking! To go and watch some typical, boring film which we all know how to talk about so well entirely because it is so typical? Count me out!
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Jinnistan » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:20 am

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:44 am
I didn't find it terribly 'nasty' though (quoting Janson)
I was referring to Cook there :shifty:
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:37 am

LEAVES wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:13 pm
What can we say about any of these scenes? Only as much as any of these paintings, plus more owing to the life of the moving image.
I'd chalk up my lack of articulation to my own inexperience with this sort of movie (as you say, a moving tableaux more than anything) or with Greenaway's influences. I still found it an enjoyably unique approach to adaptation. I was worried my evaluation would just be variations on "I liked...." over and over. because I liked a whole lot of it!
Jinnistan wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:20 am
I was referring to Cook there :shifty:
oh. whoops.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 4.0 #9: Prospero's Books (Sat. 10/12)

Post by LEAVES » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:58 am

Well, don’t say like. Experiment. Talk things out. Say what you see, what it made you feel, what it made you think... that’s how most good thinking happens. Far too much writing about films consists of naming things people know wha to say about: These are the themes, these things are allusions to that, etc. - the things you learn in English comprehension. Nothing you learn can tell you how to feel and what original thoughts you have, though, and the only thing worth reading are those...

If you only ever write about things you know, you’ll only ever think about things you know (if you even make it that far!) Step out on the ledge. Enjoy the breeze. Jump off if you like - it’s just text, you’ll survive unmaimed.
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