Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

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Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:16 pm

Saturday, August 29, 2020
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A Moment of Innocence (Mohsen Makhmalbaf, 1996)




Class Trip Discussion Thread
Past Trips, Senior Year:

#1 - Ex Drummer (2007, Koen Mortier, Belgium) | Slentert
#2 - The Territory (1981, Raul Ruiz, Portugal) | Rock
#3 - Wake In Fright (1971, Ted Kotcheff, Australia) | Popcorn Reviews
#4 - Night Must Fall (1964, Karel Reisz, UK) | Captain Terror
#5 - Fat Girl (2001, Catherine Breillat, France | Oxnard Montalvo
#6 - Marseille (2004, Angela Schanelec, Germany) | Oxnard Montalvo
#7 - Hunger (1966, Henning Carlson, Den/Swede) | Popcorn Reviews
#8 - Eden and After (1970, Alain Robbe-Grillet, France) | Jinnistan
#9 - Prospero's Books (1991, Peter Greenaway, United Kingdom) | Oxnard Montalvo
#10 - At Midnight I'll Take Your Soul (1964, José Mojica Marins, Brazil) | Popcorn Reviews
#11 - Celebration in the Botanical Garden (Elo Havetta, 1969) | Oxnard Montalvo
#12 - Wanderers of the Desert (Nacer Khemir, 1984, Tunisia) | Macrology

Past Trips, Junior Year:

#1 - La maternelle (1933, Jean Benoît-Lévy & Marie Epstein, France) | wigwam
#2 - Time and Winds (2006, Reha Erdem, Turkey) | Oxnard Montalvo
#3 - Clean, Shaven (1993, Lodge Kerrigan, USA) | Popcorn Reviews
#4 - Diabeł (1972, Andrzej Żuławski, Poland) | Oxnard Montalvo
#5 - Black Friday (2004, Anurag Kashyap, India) | Rock
#6 - Schizopolis (1996, Steven Soderbergh, USA) | Slentert
#7 - Hearts and Minds (1974, Peter Davis, USA) | Popcorn Reviews
#8 - Xtro (1982, Harry Bromley Davenport, UK) | crumbsroom
#9 - The House (1997, Šarūnas Bartas, France) | Oxnard Montalvo
#10 - Spider-Baby (1967, Jack Hill, USA) | Slentert
#11 - Oh Lucy! (2017, Atsuko Hirayanagi, Japan/USA) | Shieldmaiden
#12 - The Heartbreak Kid (1972, Elaine May, USA) | Jinnistan

Past Trips, Sophomore Year:

#1 - The Worthless (1982, Mika Kaurismäki, Finland) | snapper
#2 - Shopping for Fangs (1997, Quentin Lee and Justin Lin, USA) | takeshi
#3 - The Heart of the Wise Lives in the House of Sorrow (2009, Marin Malešević, Serbia) | Shieldmaiden
#4 - The Forbidden Quest (1993, Peter Delpeut, Netherlands) | kopello
#5 - São Bernardo (1972, Leon Hirszman, Brazil) | Bandy Greensacks
#6 - Evdokia (1971, Alexis Damianos, Greece) | Epistemophobia
#7 - The Ball at the Anjō House (1947, Kōzaburō Yoshimura, Japan) | snapper
#8 - Sérail (1976, Eduardo de Gregorio, France) | takeshi
#9 - Passport for a Corpse (1962, Mario Gariazzo, Italy) | JediMoonShyne
#10 - Aksuat (1997, Serik Aprimov, Kazakhstan) | Shieldmaiden
#11 - Dangerously Excited (2011, Koo, South Korea) | wigwam
#12 - Himala (1982, Ishmael Bernal, Philippines) | snapper

Past Trips, Freshman Year:

#1 - Distant Journey (1949, Alfréd Radok, Czechoslovakia) | snapper
#2 - Nanami: The Inferno of First Love (1968, Susumu Hani, Japan) | Das
#3 - The Policewoman (2003, Joaquim Sapinho, Portugal) | charulata
#4 - Freeze, Die, Come to Life! (1989, Vitali Kanevsky, USSR) | Bandy Greensacks
#5 - The Perfume of the Lady in Black (1974, Francesco Barilli, Italy) | Trip
#6 - Weddings and Babies (1958, Morris Engel, USA) | snapper
#7 - The Man with Three Coffins (1987, Lee Jang-ho, South Korea) | Notes from Underground
#8 - Malina (1991, Werner Schroeter, Germany) | Shieldmaiden
#9 - Bad Luck (1960, Andrzej Munk, Poland) | B-Side
#10 - The Girl with the Suitcase (1961, Valerio Zurlini, Italy) | JediMoonShyne
#11 - The Engagement of Anna (1972, Pantelis Voulgaris, Greece) | BandyGreensacks
#12 - Our Neighbor, Miss Yae (1934. Yasujirō Shimazu, Japan) | snapper
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:17 pm

Since no one else started this thread, I took the initiative to create it myself to prevent our efforts of reviving these threads from fading into obscurity once again as I thought would happen.

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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:36 pm

I have seen this one before but I'll make an attempt to watch it again so I can add my thoughts.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Slentert » Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:44 pm

I'm sorry I totally forgot to do this. I've been a bit distracted lately. Thank you for cleaning up my mess, Popcorn.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:46 pm

Slentert wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:44 pm
I'm sorry I totally forgot to do this. I've been a bit distracted lately. Thank you for cleaning up my mess, Popcorn.
No worries. Glad to have you here :up:
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Slentert » Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:52 pm

Also, this movie is currently streaming on Belgian MUBI and I imagine the same will be true for a lot of other countries as well, in case people don't want to watch it on youtube.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Macrology » Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:03 pm

I probably won't rewatch this because I just watched it earlier this year, but I'm happy to participate in any discussion around it.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Charles » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:09 pm

I really really enjoyed it, but I'm not sure I get it. I certainly don't know where to start. These movies always feel like there's some cultural background you need to be aware of to really understand them, but aside from the broad lines of the Iran situation, I don't know how to interpret all of it.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:11 pm

This is just a reminder to everyone who plans to participate in this thread to watch this film by tomorrow.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Slentert » Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:28 pm

I'm watching it tonight!
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:33 pm

I think I get this film.

I really loved it I must say. It started out with a super interesting premise (presenting the behind the scenes of the film rather than showing the actual film) and it kept expanding upon this, growing more and more ambiguous and complex as it went along, blending reality along the way. I'm not entirely sure if I got the gist of it, but my best interpretation is that it seemed like the young actor and his sister acted as stand-ins of the older male actor and his experiences with being unable to muster up the courage to hand a white flower to a girl many years before shooting the film. While attempting to film the stabbing scene (a scene which involved him holding the flower), many things would go wrong, (the older actor would stop the young actor due to being unsatisfied with his acting, a lady picked up the flower and the young actor had to get it back, a funeral possession interrupted shooting, the older actor ran away from the set at one point) and, as a result, the scene would be delayed, thus preventing it from taking place, just like the older actor was never able to hand the flower to the girl since he lacked the courage to do so. The freeze frame ending is an evocative shot (after everything that's happened, will he finally hand her the flower and complete the scene or will he, like the older actor, be stopped once again?). Overall, I was pretty blown away by this film.

Regarding Charles' post, I don't think there's a cultural background you need to know to get it (or, at least, I didn't feel like my lack of knowledge concerning Iranian history effected my enjoyment of the film). However, I'm still mulling over why certain scenes repeated or why there seemed to be a duplicate of the young actor at a couple points near the latter portions of the film. Although, I didn't come up with this reading until after watching the film, not during my viewing of it, so another viewing might straighten these things out for me. I'll see what you all think of the film first though.

EDIT: Another thought I'd like to add is I was really impressed by the level of suspense in the final act. Considering the stakes of this suspense weren't defined, that the latter portions had me curdled in fear was all the more of an impressive feat. Like, I don't know what would've happened if the stabbing scene "went wrong", but the malaise of it was abstractly terrifying. Really, the more I think about this film, the more it impresses me, and I finished watching it like an hour ago! Thanks for bringing it to my attention, Slentert!
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Slentert » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:42 pm

I must say that watching Close-Up a year ago really helped me with watching this movie. That is to say that Close-Up informed how to approach A Moment of Innocence and its ambiguous blending of narrative and documentary filmmaking.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:46 pm

Still need to watch Close-Up. Taste of Cherry is the only Kiarostami film I've seen and I liked it a good deal.

Do you agree with my reading of this film Slentert, or do you have a different interpretation in mind?
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Macrology » Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:23 pm

They're closely entwined films: they interweave documentary and fiction, sometimes seamlessly; they both feature people pretending to be other people and people recreating events; both are based on actual incidents involving some of the people who appear in the film. And the reciprocity goes deeper - Close-Up is about Makhmalbaf's (already considerable) legacy in Iran, and A Moment of Innocence adopts many of Close-Up's formal strategies. They're also two of the best films of the 90s and have two of the most beautiful endings in all of cinema.

It's important to note - I forget if the film makes it explicitly clear - that the incident being staged in A Moment of Innocence is an actual stabbing Makhmalbaf committed against a guard back when he was a militant Fundamentalist at the advent of the Iranian Revolution. He was hoping to steal his gun - the guard survived but Makhmalbaf went to prison, an event that permanently altered the course of his life.
In A Moment of Innocence Makhmalbaf plays himself, and the guard he stabbed also plays himself. So the film is necessarily about coming to terms with the past - one's personal failures, one's grievances against others - and that's buried implicitly in their willingness to collaborate on this film together. But there is also an optimism embodied in the younger generation who recreate the original event, whose final gesture (two simultaneous, spontaneous offerings of good will) represents a break from cyclical violence, a reconciliation for past wrongs, and a path toward a more hopeful future.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:13 am

Looks like my interpretation differed quite a lot from yours, and other than the freeze frame ending, I don't think our readings go against each other necessarily, but I still stand by my reading, though yours also makes sense.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Macrology » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:28 pm

An important detail: the original Farsi title of the film is Bread and Flower, which suggests that both objects hold commensurate significance.

Jonathan Rosenbaum's capsule review doesn't go into much depth, but it does concisely summarize the background of the film:
This is one of the best features (1996) of the prolific and unpredictable Iranian filmmaker Mohsen Makhmalbaf [. . .] It’s also one of his most seminal and accessible — a reconstruction of a pivotal incident during his teens. At the time the shah was in power, and Makhmalbaf was a fundamentalist activist. He stabbed a policeman, was shot and arrested, and spent several years in prison. Two decades later, his politics quite different, Makhmalbaf was auditioning people to appear in his film Salaam Cinema, and among them was the policeman, now unemployed. The two of them wound up collaborating on this film, which tries to reconcile their separate versions of what happened with separate cameras. No doubt it was prompted in part by Abbas Kiarostami’s remarkable Close-up (1990), another eclectic documentary that reconstructs past events — a hoax that involved Makhmalbaf himself — with two cameras. But this is no mere imitation; it’s a fascinating humanist experiment and investigation in its own right, full of warmth and humor as well as mystery. The original Persian title, incidentally, translates as “Bread and Flower.”
This appreciation by Dennis Grunes dwells on the film's serendipitous power, and the impossibility of knowing what Makhmalbaf planned and what happened spontaneously during the production. The film is such a remarkable fusion of unexpected circumstance and meticulous design.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:36 am

I had a chance to watch it again, and I liked it quite a bit more this time around. I picked up on a couple new details, like how the girl the officer talked about worked with Makhmalbaf to distract him during the real-life stabbing and how the director visited her house after the officer first described her. For some reason, I didn't pick up on that the first time around, but that scene hit me much differently this time. Does anyone know if that actually is her, and if so, did the officer and the girl reunite in real life?

I also changed my interpretation on the final shot. I initially thought the kid who played Makhmalbaf was going to try to stab the boy who played the officer again, but I then noticed that he moved his hands to the edges of the bread before the freeze frame, indicating he wasn't holding onto the knife anymore. I agree with Mac that the final shot does appear to be a reconciliation, with how the boy seemed to think about shooting her like the officer suggested in the prior scene only to change his mind, finally making up for his past regrets. I also think there's several clear parallels between the conflict with Makhmalbaf and the officer and the younger generation who act out the events, a few more of which I picked up on this time around.

Once again, really beautiful film. Excellent choice, Slentert.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Charles » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:31 pm

One thing I missed is the second young actor. I don't know why I lost track, or maybe it's because of the low resolution, but I sort of missed the moment where the actor playing the director came in. I'll probably try to watch it again.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Slentert » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:34 pm

Popcorn Reviews wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:46 pm
Still need to watch Close-Up. Taste of Cherry is the only Kiarostami film I've seen and I liked it a good deal.

Do you agree with my reading of this film Slentert, or do you have a different interpretation in mind?
I lean more towards Macrology's reading to be honest.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:51 pm

For what it's worth, a rewatch led me to lean more towards Mac's reading as well. I misunderstood a few details in the film initially, but I think I have a better understanding of the film now. I clarified some of my thoughts in my most recent post in this thread. I agree with him that the film is about the reconciliation of both characters with their past.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:52 pm

haha whoops, I forgot about this. I might try to re-watch Close-Up first as they are both short and stress-free viewings.

when I first saw it back in the day I took it as an exercise in how the present will inevitably encroach on the past whenever cinema tries to reproduce the latter. (I know there are other layers though)
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Macrology » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:20 pm

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:52 pm
haha whoops, I forgot about this. I might try to re-watch Close-Up first as they are both short and stress-free viewings.

when I first saw it back in the day I took it as an exercise in how the present will inevitably encroach on the past whenever cinema tries to reproduce the latter. (I know there are other layers though)
Ah, I really like that observation. It's a nice layer, even if it's ancillary to the film's primary aims.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by MrCarmady » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:05 pm

Caught up with it. I liked it a bunch if it didn't quite leave me as enthusiastic as the consensus in this thread. Leaving aside the things mentioned, I think the movie's sense of humour really shines - the director's assistant is quite a comic character, as is the cinema-obsessed tailor, as is the policeman's sulking when the director decided not to cast a really handsome guy to play him. I'm surprised we're just taking the man being in love with his first cousin for granted - do we know that it's just an accepted thing in Iran or are we just assuming that? The ending freeze frame is brilliant but my favourite bit of the film blending 'reality' and 'fiction' is when Makhmalbaf's cousin's daughter quickly acts the scene out with the boy sitting in the car, a playful and affectionate reminder of how constructed all we're watching is. I'm not getting a spontaneous air from it at all.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Oxnard Montalvo » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:44 pm

one would think I would have been able to fit in a 75 minute movie before now. but you'd be wrong! I don't know how available I'll be for future Class Trips since work is getting kinda hairy. but at least I got to this one.

watching it a second time and already familiar with the story design and Makhmalbaf's history, I found it very sweet in exhibiting its hopes for the younger generation. that regardless of whatever mistakes they will make, the might not let the possible love of their life slip away or turn to violence as political expression. even if the final scene is somewhat 'ambiguous' i.e. how the scene with the three actors will end either on-screen or in real life, neither mistake has been repeated so we're already making progress. so Slenert, Popcorn, the future is counting on y'all not to mess this up!

and shout-out to the Kirk Douglas-loving tailor, a good example of how American pop culture is one of our most successful exports.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:57 pm

Oxnard Montalvo wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:44 pm
Slenert, Popcorn, the future is counting on y'all not to mess this up!
I'll try lol.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:58 pm

Also, should we start thinking about hosting another round now?

Charles and MrCarmady, I see that you two haven't hosted one of these yet, so maybe one of you would like to go next?
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Charles » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:26 pm

Like, today or tomorrow?
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Charles » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:29 pm

Also sorry for not participating more for this one, I just don't know how to approach this one. It feels very context-dependent.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:30 pm

Charles wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:26 pm
Like, today or tomorrow?
Usually, we start these a week or two in advance. Whatever works best for you, really.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Charles » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:33 pm

Alright, I see what I can find that can be found easily online, unless Carmady snipes it.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by Charles » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:51 pm

I'll post it later, it'll take a minute to format.
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Re: Corrie Class Trip 5.0 #1: A Moment of Innocence (Sat. 8/29)

Post by MrCarmady » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:19 pm

I'll happily go next time and I'll have time to think of a few good options. Looking forward to Charles' suggestion!
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