I want diversity in films, but not like this

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replican
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I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by replican » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:20 am

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/08/entertai ... index.html

Much like everything else in this clown world we live in today, this makes no sense. What about period pieces where it doesn't make sense to have a POC character? We just gonna stick tokens everywhere I guess.

Stuff like this is why people mock the Hollywood liberal elite.
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DaMU
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by DaMU » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:50 am

[nvm]
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Evil » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:14 am

I personally am fine with a black Mr. Darcy.
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Wooley
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Wooley » Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:50 am

Yeah, I guess if you are making an historically accurate film or something, you just accept that you're not gonna be in the BP race.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Slentert » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:04 pm

The real problem is that people actually give a fuck about the Oscars in the first place.
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Charles
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Charles » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:20 pm

I don't think the oscars have the clout they seem to think they have to make that kind of decision and think it'll change anything. Oscarssowhite was a dumb hashtag, thinking the awards were the problem, and not a broader issue in Hollywood, but this will simply catapult the academy further into irrelevance.
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crumbsroom
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by crumbsroom » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:47 pm

Dumb solutions to important questions seems to be the running theme of the past few years, so why not.
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MrCarmady
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by MrCarmady » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:05 pm

Historical accuracy is such a nonsense argument, as if the biggest issue with suspending disbelief is where the actors are from. The quota is a dumb way to deal with a structural problem, but 'won't anyone think of the period pieces?' is an even dumber riposte, when Hollywood history is peppered with white people playing black people (Othello), Native Americans (Devil's Doorway), and Asians (Breakfast at Tiffany's). And if we're talking recent history, how about the cast of Ridley Scott's Exodus? As far as I know, none of these people are Egyptian:

Christian Bale as Moses
Joel Edgerton as Ramesses II
John Turturro as Seti I
Aaron Paul as Joshua
Ben Mendelsohn as Viceroy Hegep
Sigourney Weaver as Tuya
Ben Kingsley as Nun
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wichares
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by wichares » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:07 pm

If you actually read the rules, they are so broad that it's easy for most to qualify half the way there. Female casting directors and costume designers -- which are pretty common -- half a point right off (and there go the period film argument). In fact, it's so easy that it will be interesting to see which past Best Pic nominees fail this.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Popcorn Reviews » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:24 pm

All the more reasons why the Oscars are unreliable.

But yeah, I agree that this is a pointless rule. With this, the category for Best Picture really isn't a true "We think this is the best film of the year" and is actually "We think this is the best film of the year that includes diversification".

EDIT: Actually, maybe this isn't as exclusive as I thought. I was under the impression that most films wouldn't apply for these standards, but it looks like the opposite is actually true.
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The Nameless Two
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by The Nameless Two » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:30 pm

I'm 100% on board with this and am unsure why anyone wouldn't be
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Thief » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:30 pm

replican wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:20 am
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/08/entertai ... index.html

Much like everything else in this clown world we live in today, this makes no sense. What about period pieces where it doesn't make sense to have a POC character? We just gonna stick tokens everywhere I guess.

Stuff like this is why people mock the Hollywood liberal elite.
That's precisely why there are 4 categories or standards where the film can "apply" for diversity, and they only have to fulfill 2 of those. I think it's pretty good and films like the one you mention have plenty of other options.

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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by The Nameless Two » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:31 pm

Like, do you people actually care about the Oscars? Do you put weight into what's considered a best picture? Go soak your heads lol, it's just a marketing ploy
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DaMU
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by DaMU » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:47 pm

Their value is as a booster, not an arbiter of taste. I loved seeing Parasite win because it meant more people would seek it out, and, of those people, some might seek out more SK cinema.

Well, that, and this is probably my favorite Oscar moment. Bong Joon-Ho, with the help of Spike Lee, goosing a standing ovation for Martin Scorsese. (It's also great because he then compliments Tarantino and then almost hilariously is like, "The other two directors are good too I guess.")

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crumbsroom
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by crumbsroom » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:22 pm

The Nameless Two wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:30 pm
I'm 100% on board with this and am unsure why anyone wouldn't be
Because it is a dumb pretend solution. I'm all on board if they never choose to nominate another white male or American film ever again for the Oscars, but this thin veneer of inclusivity is an empty gesture. It's exactly what I would expect from the Academy.

How about they put their money where their mouth is and get behind the production and marketing of diverse films? It can be argued they have already gone a couple of baby steps in this direction the last few years, but they could push even harder on this. It would be simultaneously good for the artists the audience and the artform itself.

But sure, lets deprive some milquetoast period pieces from getting some nominations. Victory!
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The Nameless Two
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by The Nameless Two » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:41 pm

crumbsroom wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:22 pm
Because it is a dumb pretend solution. I'm all on board if they never choose to nominate another white male or American film ever again for the Oscars, but this thin veneer of inclusivity is an empty gesture. It's exactly what I would expect from the Academy.
It's also what I would expect but in the world of marketing I'd say they are doing more a favor than not, it's a start at least
How about they put their money where their mouth is and get behind the production and marketing of diverse films? It can be argued they have already gone a couple of baby steps in this direction the last few years, but they could push even harder on this. It would be simultaneously good for the artists the audience and the artform itself.
This is absolutely in the realm of marketing but I ultimately agree... though maybe we don't want the Oscars producing movies
But sure, lets deprive some milquetoast period pieces from getting some nominations. Victory!
This is such a victory for me lol
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The Nameless Two
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by The Nameless Two » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:44 pm

So who has money on Sonic The Hedgehog taking home the gold this year?
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Thief » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:48 pm

I agree with Nameless that it's a start. Even if it's a "dumb pretend solution", in terms of the real frame of mind from the "Academy", at least it will motivate some changes, rather than none.

As for how this might limit certain films (like period pieces where POC don't "fit", like some of you have mentioned), I refer you to the link I posted above. If your material doesn't call for POC characters or subject, then you have to make sure you have "diverse" crews and people involved in the pipeline, or that you support "diverse" internships and apprenticeships.

Seriously, I don't see how this is a bad thing.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Rock » Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:08 pm

The Nameless Two wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:44 pm
So who has money on Sonic The Hedgehog taking home the gold this year?
I'm betting on Bad Boys for Life.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by crumbsroom » Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:44 pm

Thief wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:48 pm
I agree with Nameless that it's a start. Even if it's a "dumb pretend solution", in terms of the real frame of mind from the "Academy", at least it will motivate some changes, rather than none.

As for how this might limit certain films (like period pieces where POC don't "fit", like some of you have mentioned), I refer you to the link I posted above. If your material doesn't call for POC characters or subject, then you have to make sure you have "diverse" crews and people involved in the pipeline, or that you support "diverse" internships and apprenticeships.

Seriously, I don't see how this is a bad thing.
I don't think its a bad thing as much as I find it irritating in the solipsistic way I find so much of the Oscar culture irritating. That somehow not qualifying for their nomination process is the appropriate carrot to offset the stick of under representation on screen. Are there plus sides to it? I'm sure there could be (even though, as mentioned above, the regulations are so lax to really not be excluding much as it stands now anyways). But even after this is implemented, if the ball gets rolling in other areas that I feel are more productive, I still don't have much interest in patting the Academy on the back for what they are doing here. Call me cynical, but that feels like all this is meant for, this toothless whitewash that allows them to pivot towards a better public image.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Thief » Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:51 pm

I more or less agree with your sentiments (about the overall relevance of the Oscars and the real reasoning behind this move), but when you have to deal with this sort of "impenetrable", established structures, I think a movement like this should be seen as a step forward.
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replican
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by replican » Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:59 pm

MrCarmady wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:05 pm
Historical accuracy is such a nonsense argument, as if the biggest issue with suspending disbelief is where the actors are from. The quota is a dumb way to deal with a structural problem, but 'won't anyone think of the period pieces?' is an even dumber riposte, when Hollywood history is peppered with white people playing black people (Othello), Native Americans (Devil's Doorway), and Asians (Breakfast at Tiffany's). And if we're talking recent history, how about the cast of Ridley Scott's Exodus? As far as I know, none of these people are Egyptian:

Christian Bale as Moses
Joel Edgerton as Ramesses II
John Turturro as Seti I
Aaron Paul as Joshua
Ben Mendelsohn as Viceroy Hegep
Sigourney Weaver as Tuya
Ben Kingsley as Nun
This argument is why multicultural societies remain antagonistic. You call my argument nonsense but go on to make your point by basically saying two wrongs make a right.

I put the historical accuracy point out there just as the most obvious potential issue arising from a quota system.

Quota systems are inherently divisive. They are the opposite of fostering a competitive environment that builds greatness. I don't want my auteurs sitting there counting out whiteys and POCs on a piece of paper to prove he's not racist. Let's add bureaucracy to the creation of art. So fucking dumb and a capitulation to the loudest most obnoxious voices right now. And of course the Oscars want to save face and do their virtue signaling bit.

And just so this is not a case of me just shitting on someone's solution to the problem: Just recently, actor and comedian Ryan Reynolds has announced a new initiative which will further enforce diversity in Hollywood. This program, dubbed The Group Effort Initiative, will allow aspiring minority filmmakers to get hands-on experience working on a professional film alongside industry veterans. The program will completely cover the recruits’ payment, housing and travel.

If the Oscars wanted to do something for minorities, fund programs like that. Create opportunities for minorities to develop their talents. Forcing projects to literally count POC on their set is a fucking joke and an insult.
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DaMU
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by DaMU » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:00 pm

I like their more "do the work" solution of diversifying the voting pool year over year. It won't see immediate dividends, but a more representational electorate will help.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Thief » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:03 pm

replican wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:59 pm

If the Oscars wanted to do something for minorities, fund programs like that. Create opportunities for minorities to develop their talents. Forcing projects to literally count POC on their set is a fucking joke and an insult.
FWIW, one of the standards (C) to apply for Best Picture is to actually provide paid internship/apprenticeship and offer training and work opportunities for POC/minorities. So, again, big or small, I'll say it's a step in the right direction.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by MrCarmady » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:04 pm

Are they two wrongs, though? Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's is clearly wrong because it's a racist caricature. Mercifully, we've moved beyond white actors doing Othello in blackface but Welles and Olivier were just products of their time and great actors so I'm sure they brought something to those parts even if I wouldn't want to see a white guy doing Othello in 2020. But how is it a 'wrong' to have a black actor in a film about 14th century Britain, or whatever? If they're talented and make their characters rounded, I'd rather have them compete for those parts rather than shutting them out. Now, saying that we have to have a black Hamlet, say, would be silly, but saying that a black actor playing Hamlet doesn't work because Hamlet was Danish is surely racist and atavistic.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Death Proof » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:16 pm

The Nameless Two wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:44 pm
So who has money on Sonic The Hedgehog taking home the gold this year?
I took Madea's Family Funeral and the points
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Stu
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Stu » Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:20 pm

I found this video on the subject to be pretty insightful:

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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Gort » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:08 am

The Nameless Two wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:31 pm
Like, do you people actually care about the Oscars? Do you put weight into what's considered a best picture? Go soak your heads lol, it's just a marketing ploy
Do you put any stock in a poster's Best Films list at all?

Do you write about quality or lack of it in the films you watch? It's just an extension of that sort of silliness!

What one person thinks is a great movie shouldn't persuade you, any more than hundreds of people in the Academy voting for one should persuade you, that it's worth watching. :shifty:
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The Nameless Two
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by The Nameless Two » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:18 am

Gort wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:08 am
Do you put any stock in a poster's Best Films list at all?

Do you write about quality or lack of it in the films you watch? It's just an extension of that sort of silliness!

What one person thinks is a great movie shouldn't persuade you, any more than hundreds of people in the Academy voting for one should persuade you, that it's worth watching. :shifty:
First question: I don't. List making is not my bag, just a mess of subjectivity, no persons an island

Second: Satirically maybe. I'm definitely the outlier when it comes to taking any of this seriously. I mean, I just watched like nothing but a decades worth of Marvel movies, my barometer for quality is shite

Third: Yes, because a few hundred American old white dudes surely makes my loins quiver when it comes to cinema. You haven't been here for a while have you? I'm exactly the person who rails against your logic here
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by replican » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:34 am

Stu wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:20 pm
I found this video on the subject to be pretty insightful:

Hollywood liberals trying to solve the diversity problem and getting it wrong is hardly shocking. Just like the woke culture at large, it's a misguided venture. Occupy Wall St was the same. No coherent plan. Just trying to be on the right side of the PR battle.

If the powers that be that run the Oscars really wanted to establish change, they would have outsourced the task of addressing the diversity issue. Take some time to develop a plan that would actually work to achieve specific, sensible goals. Instead they just quickly rolled out some check mark plan to appease the SJW crew and save face.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by crumbsroom » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:42 am

replican wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:34 am
Hollywood liberals trying to solve the diversity problem and getting it wrong is hardly shocking. Just like the woke culture at large, it's a misguided venture. Occupy Wall St was the same. No coherent plan. Just trying to be on the right side of the PR battle.

If the powers that be that run the Oscars really wanted to establish change, they would have outsourced the task of addressing the diversity issue. Take some time to develop a plan that would actually work to achieve specific, sensible goals. Instead they just quickly rolled out some check mark plan to appease the SJW crew and save face.
When you say these things, do you know you're just repeating talking points, or do you think these are your thoughts?

Honest question.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by replican » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:44 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:42 am
When you say these things, do you know you're just repeating talking points, or do you think these are your thoughts?

Honest question.
Refute me instead of calling out the terms I'm using.
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Evil
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Evil » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:06 am

"Debate me, bro" hissed the wee little leprechaun man. Yet none could hear, because the lightest of breezes had carried his tiny kitten like screech off into the ether.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by crumbsroom » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:10 am

replican wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:44 am
Refute me instead of calling out the terms I'm using.
Refute you? Why? Are we still all under the impression that anyone's minds can be changed about anything anymore? No thanks. No refuting from me.

I was just generally curious about what it tastes like to have all of your opinions pre chewed.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by replican » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:24 am

crumbsroom wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:10 am
Refute you? Why? Are we still all under the impression that anyone's minds can be changed about anything anymore? No thanks. No refuting from me.

I was just generally curious about what it tastes like to have all of your opinions pre chewed.
Agreed on the changing people's minds part.

I think you're mistaking my use of buzzwords (and admittedly to try and trigger (there I go again) people with a pre chewed opinion.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Ergill » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:26 am

I agree, I want more diversity in film by way of killing more white people.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Ergill » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:27 am

Nomnomnomnomnom
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by replican » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:38 am

Ergill wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:26 am
I agree, I want more diversity in film by way of killing more white people.
Image
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by Ergill » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:00 am

replican wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:38 am
Image
Doesn't she get shot? I hope so.
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Re: I want diversity in films, but not like this

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:31 am

Ergill wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:00 am
Doesn't she get shot? I hope so.
She gets unplugged but you could always plug the corpse to be sure.
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