YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:00 am

Quite-Gone Genie wrote:..."Scene Filter" that I'm looking up right now.
You'll have to pick a generic filename prefix, or you'll need to remember to go in and change the filename before each auto-grab session! *




*Learned the hard way.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:04 am

A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924) Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)
Peter Pan (2003) dir. P.J. Hogan
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IMDb link RT-link

Year: 2003 -- Director: P.J. Hogan -- Cast: Jason Isaacs, Jeremy Sumpter, Rachel Hurd-Wood, Lynn Redgrave, Richard Briers -- Length: 114 min. Color/Stereo

You see him; you hear him. Peter is a boy. Finally, a live-action production of J.M. Barrie's story in which the boy who wouldn't grow up is actually anatomically correct (not that you ever get a chance to verify this). When I went to the theater to see this film in 2003 that aspect alone was what drew me. For all I knew this unknown kid would totally fail in the part, although for different reasons than other prior Peters may have. But I left the theater knowing that P.J. Hogan had found the right young actor to portray Peter Pan. It works. Very well.

Most of my 12 October 2007 review at RottenTomatoes Forums still stands. I've quoted and edited it for this review:
YTMN at RT wrote:Peter Pan was always played by a female. Maybe even voiced by a female. Someone who was “mature” enough to know how to play the character, but had a high-pitched voice—like a boy. When I learned that P. J. Hogan was releasing a Peter Pan with a 14-year old boy playing Peter, I knew I had to see it. I was prepared to be disappointed.

Disappointment never got close to me. As soon as the DVD came out, I went to buy it. There is something charming to me about the story of Peter Pan. Fortunately, I was not able to get stuck in childhood forever (no one I know has been able to do that). But the film resonates with me because I know that buried under layers and layers of jading experience and the passage of time, the boy I used to be is still alive inside my heart and mind. He remembers things that happened. He remembers dreams that never came to pass. He remembers wondering what it would be like when he was — well, when he was me.

So, for children Peter Pan is a story about fantasy. For adults, Peter Pan is a story about the childhood that got away (like a big fish).

Having seen the Disney animated version, the TV show with Mary Martin playing Peter, and a couple of other incarnations (one in live theater) in my lifetime, I had a lot to compare this version with. It could have easily fallen to the bottom of the list. But, most importantly, it is not a musical, and it is constantly straddling the fine line between reality and fantasy with a great sense of balance. I think the small kid inside me came out of retirement for a couple of hours while I watched. And he puts this Peter Pan at the top of all the versions he has seen.

In the theater with me were two 14-year old guys I know, but their older brothers waited until I bought the DVD to see the film. The teenagers laughed at all the places I did. That’s why I say the kid inside was the one watching the movie.

It’s good fun from start to finish. This version does not flinch at the dark side of Peter’s existence, though. Jeremy Sumpter manages to make you believe that Tinker Bell has died, and that he believes it with all his heart. His tears seem quite real for such a young actor to pull off. His fascination with Wendy seems real, also. It seems just like I remember it being when I was awkwardly discovering the magic of the opposite sex. When threatened by Hook with sudden, irrevocable death, Peter’s only response is, “To die would be a very great adventure.” And later, when he is offered the chance to live, his response is, “To live would be a very great adventure.” And yet, the fictional boy’s life is nothing but one wall-to-wall adventure.

There is great attention to detail, a humorous example of which are the colorfully-stained soles of Peter’s feet! There is no 100% effort to make anything about Never-Never Land look real, but it all rings true, anyway. All the children (Wendy and her brothers, and the Lost Boys) are played by very competent young actors. Tink is artfully played by French actress Ludivine Sagnier using mime rather than dialogue. The special effects look like they cost as much as they did. And everything blends together seamlessly, to an extent I’ve not seen in a kid’s movie since Babe. But, if anyone reading this believes that Peter Pan is only a kid’s film, try watching this version. It will meet you at your place in life.
Here are some aspects of the film that I like. Ha, I like nearly everything about it. In fact, this list will become embarrasing:
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Like Peter is the foreigner, the stranger. For example, he's flying around London, England searching for stories to tell The Lost Boys, but when he speaks he doesn't even have an English accent. This might have been done because Jeremy Sumpter couldn't do a convincing British accent, but it's a good thing that they didn't have him try it. If he sounded just like everyone else that magical dissonance wouldn't have been there. He's the boy who wouldn't grow up. Every child grows up...all but one.

Like Jeremy Sumpter as Peter Pan. I have no idea how many takes Mr Hogan had to get from the youngster in order to capture the performance we see, but I've read that the producers said, "Jeremy was all we needed for Peter." He was born in 1989, so he was only 12 or 13 years old when they were filming. Apparently he was rather full of himself at getting the role, so that probably helped him play the part.
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Like Actually, I like the entire cast. This is one of those movies where even the smallest part seems perfectly cast. All the critical parts are played to the hilt without (in my opinion, I add needlessly) going overboard. Rachel Hurd-Wood is the most perfect Wendy I've ever seen. Jason Isaacs plays a despicable and sympathetic Captain Hook. At the same time he is a most simpering Mr Darling, but the two roles are exactly the opposite. Whereas Hook is aggressive (the adult counterpart of Peter, he really loves himself too much), Mr Darling is submissive. But Hook doesn't really want to be as mean and crass as he is, and Mr Darling would like to unleash a slight bit of the suppressed Hook. Both are control freaks, though. I'll save all the rest of the gushing over performances for the essay on casts. Mom. The added character of Aunt Millicent. The various kids who play the Lost Boys. Tiger Lily. Smeeeeee! Noodles (who finally has hands on backward). And. So. Forth.

Like The additions to the character list for the film. Yes, even Aunt Millicent who says things and does things that aren't in either the play or the book may seem horrific to purists who would point out that she is a "fabrication." But she stands in for the zeitgeist of 1904 London, and comments on things in a way that we probably considered inappropriate a century after the original play was first performed. This allows that character to relent, and with the help of a bit of fairy dust, to adopt one of the Lost Boys at the end. And the various pirate roles who never speak a word in the prior adaptations, but who get a line or two here.
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Like The special effects rarely seem over-done. The 1924 film used cinematic tricks to enhance the stage experience, but lost sound in the process. Still, audiences could actually see a Tinker Bell in semi-human form, who is not beyond matching a reader's or play-goer's imagination of what the fairy might be like. Most of the tricks are in line with what prevailed on stage. Disney changed some of the conventions in 1953 in order to take advantage of the fact that a movie is not a stage play. Animation opened up an entire realm of effects that simply could not be accomplished on stage. What was lost was the live action element, but for the time the trade-off was worth it. Being unseen, a boy could be used for the qualities of speech that a boy has that a woman cannot match (women's voices never "change" the way a boy's voice does). And because of the animation technique many of the conventions that prevailed on stage could be improved upon. Peter has to chase his shadow, which has a life of its own. Tinker Bell is more often a figure than she is a mere light. And the Lost Boys have more personality, even though Disney has them all decide to return to Never Never Land rather than be adopted, as they are in the stage play. So, in 2003 the ability to merge animation that has dimension to it with live action makes the story what Herbert Brenon probably dreamed of. Or perhaps the new capabilities were completely beyond what he could imagine. Once again, Hogan took advantage of the fact that he was making a movie, not an animated movie, and not a stage play on film. There is actually a progression in the way in which the story is told through the three movie versions.

Like I can stay emotionally outside the Brenon, and even the Disney films. But I get caught up in this one. My responses run the gamut of emotions. I've never watched the film when tears didn't come to my eyes. Some of these are tears of joy that certain aspects of the film are handled with what I can only describe as beauty. Other tears come as I miss the boy I used to be a half-century ago. And as I wrote above in the first review, somehow the movie brings that child to life again, layered over by the college guy and the parent that I later became. I never wanted to always remain a boy, but I did want to always have fun. And I have. And that's the part I like most. This movie is damned good fun!
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Like The awkward, but ineffably accurate depictions of the first stirrings of attraction across the barriers of sex, shown with the slight confidence that Wendy and Peter have, and the completely baffled, Little Rascals Alfalfa-style of the sparks between John and Tiger Lily. John, of course, is the Alfalfa type, suddenly developing the strength of a man twice his size when kissed by the indian girl. He is terrified of her, and so totally enchanted by her. It makes me laugh from the comedic bits and from recognition of having once been there. (Maybe I still am there. Not sure.)

Like The Lost Boys are dirty. In 1924 they are clean kids. In 1953 they are drawn without smudges. These 2003 guys look like they have no mother to tell them, "You need to get a bath." That's one of the minor themes of Act One of the play: neither John nor Michael want Nana to make them take a bath. But the directors didn't pick up on that and bring it to the fore in the first and second movies. Not taking baths leads to dirty fingers and hands, and feet with stains of many colors, all of which are resplendently paraded throughout this film.
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Like Hogan and Michael Goldenberg seem to be very adept at what to take directly from Barrie and what to adapt to the audiences of century twenty-one. They seem adept at adding scenes that are not in any other play or novel or movie of the story, without ruining the tale. Just as the additions to 3:10 to Yuma improve the story told at each step from print to first to second films, this one improves on Barrie's conception. In a sense, this film becomes a variation to the story, while remaining stubbornly true to it, not steering it to the darkest areas alone, and not making Peter some kind of monster. Walt Disney used Brenon's film as a starting point. Hogan used the Disney as a starting point.

Like "Old! Alone! Done for!" the children chant at Hook. Ha! Clearly he is done for only because he begins to believe it. And that becomes the film's message for the oldsters watching through their tears of recollection: you're not really done for until you believe it yourself. I wouldn't have seen this in the film 40 years ago. Probably. Growing older is not such a horrible thing...this idea is actually the impetus for the story of Peter Pan. It's the natural order of things. Barring an unfortunate and premature death, everyone grows up. Well, all but one lonely little boy.

Like The total fanboy feel I get when I watch this. Well, that about says it all.

After much thought I found one aspect of the film that I don't care for:
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Don't Like Uhm, since I have to put something into this list: sometimes you can see where compositing took place. Usually you can't.

I lost count of the number of viewings I've made of this film, but when I was watching it to pull stills I was using my DVD copy. I was so looking forward to watching my Blu-ray disc that I almost decided to stay up far too late and watch it again that night. Greater wisdom prevailed, though. I put it off a day or two.

Nostalgia is sometimes painful (it's part of the word). This film creates tremendous nostalgia in viewers over the age of 15 (I guess) but it is sugar-coated, so it doesn't hurt. It more or less releases the spirit to fly like Peter and the other children do.

Your mileage will vary, of course, depending on your time of life. For me, this is my favorite Peter Pan vehicle of all time.



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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Shieldmaiden » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:35 am

YouTookMyName wrote:But, if anyone reading this believes that Peter Pan is only a kid’s film, try watching this version. It will meet you at your place in life.
Yes. I love this one. There's real magic in it.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:08 am

Shieldmaiden wrote:Yes. I love this one. There's real magic in it.
What I don't know is: was it the result of very careful and intensive effort, the way Alfred Hitchcock's films were...or was it just a lot of lucky accidents that happened in the same time at the same place?

Have you read anything about that? I don't think I've seen anything else by Hogan. (goes to look) Nope. Only this film out of his 12 titles. How many of his films have you seen, Maiden?
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:46 am

Ha ha. I just test-posted the three Pan banners for the reviews together to see what they looked like. I sort of made a general theme for them. Well, here's what they looked like:

Image

Image

Image
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Shieldmaiden » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:31 am

YouTookMyName wrote:What I don't know is: was it the result of very careful and intensive effort, the way Alfred Hitchcock's films were...or was it just a lot of lucky accidents that happened in the same time at the same place? Have you read anything about that? I don't think I've seen anything else by Hogan. (goes to look) Nope. Only this film out of his 12 titles. How many of his films have you seen, Maiden?
I'm sure it was a little of both, but I lean toward the effort side. I have the impression (I'm not sure from where) that Hogan had very strong ideas about how to do it right, and I think his instincts were golden. I've only seen Muriel's Wedding, which is definitely worth checking out, but nothing else on that list tempts me, even a little. :P
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:06 pm

Shieldmaiden wrote:I'm sure it was a little of both, but I lean toward the effort side. I have the impression (I'm not sure from where) that Hogan had very strong ideas about how to do it right, and I think his instincts were golden. I've only seen Muriel's Wedding, which is definitely worth checking out, but nothing else on that list tempts me, even a little. :P
Yes, not a director whose entire filmography I'm craving. But when I get a chance I'll check out Muriel's Wedding. Does it have a similar feel to Peter Pan at all? Whimsy, and light-heartedness underlain by a bit of dark smudgery?

Under what circumstances did you see this Peter Pan for the first time? Oh, and have you seen either of the other two films? I don't recall whether you already said. You haven't on this page at least. I sort of assume everyone's seen the Disney cartoon version. And that hardly anyone has seen the Brenon version...but only because I didn't know it even existed until a few months ago. I believe I learned about it in July or August 2012.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Shieldmaiden » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:33 pm

YouTookMyName wrote:Does it have a similar feel to Peter Pan at all? Whimsy, and light-heartedness underlain by a bit of dark smudgery?
Not really. It's a dark comedy, with a lot of harsh caricature and some surprising tenderness. And Abba, of course!
Under what circumstances did you see this Peter Pan for the first time?
I saw it on DVD, with a five-year-old, which probably amped up the magic a bit.
Oh, and have you seen either of the other two films?
I've only seen the Disney version, which is very low on my Disney 'list.' (As an adult, that is. I liked it when I was a kid.) I saw the musical in the theater circa 2005, which I liked, and I've read the book, which was all right, I guess.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:33 am

Shieldmaiden wrote:Not really. It's a dark comedy, with a lot of harsh caricature and some surprising tenderness. And Abba, of course!
The "Waterloo" bit they perform is marvelous.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:29 pm

Wow. An actual conversation in this thread that doesn't involve me!

...

Some of these technical information posts are a little depressing to put together. I don't get to add a thing to the information about anyone that's already on the internet, so if there isn't much there, I don't have much to say. The huge amount of information available for Hitchcock and his collaborators spoiled me a bit in the Rear Window-Disturbia Rematch. Now it's back to technical info posts like I did in Round One. :(
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:29 pm

Image

A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)
The Men in Charge
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Peter Pan (1924)
Herbert Brenon directed films from 1912 to 1940, and amassed a list of 128 titles at IMDb. His birth name, Alexander Herbert Reginald St. John Brenon is as long and florid as his career. Brenon's last silent release was in 1928 (Laugh, Clown Laugh with Lon Chaney). The next year saw the release of his first sound feature (The Rescue featuring Ronald Coleman in a Joseph Conrad story). The man directed 110 silent titles before "graduating" to sound. The IMDb biographer reports that Brenon was apprehensive about directing sound pictures. Obviously, from sheer experience he was a master of the silent form. Who knows how this film would have been different if it had been made five years later? If my counting is correct, Peter Pan was Herbert Brenon's 99th film project. He handles the camera with the kind of confidence you would expect; of course, the camera is actually being set up and operated by James Wong Howe. Brenon was also involved in producing and acting in films. And in 1933 he was the Production Manager for William J. Cowen's sound production of Oliver Twist. He was born in 1880 in Dublin, Ireland, and lived until 1958. He is perhaps best known for a silent production of Beau Geste released in 1926, two years after Peter Pan. To my knowledge and recollection I have seen only one of his films.

One of the difficulties I've faced when presenting information about the directors of the movies in Rematches is that there is often not very much available on the internet. For all the directors in this post I faced the same problem. Basically, for Brenon I gleaned information that you can easily get by looking at his IMDb filmography page. Thus, for the final four directors, a quick click on a link or two will get you much more information faster than if I write out what you can deduce in this post.

Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953)
Three men are responsible for directing Disney's 1953 adaptation of Barrie's famous stage play. The names of Hamilton Luske, Clyde Geronimi, and Wilfred Jackson are displayed in the opening credits. There were others who had directorial tasks to a lesser extent on the film, and you can find them listed on the IMDb full cast & crew page. Naturally, Luske, Geronimi and Jackson have many credits because most of their work was done on short features--the kind we call "Cartoons" at the movie theater. There is not a lot of information to be found about these three men. Geronimi has the longest article on the Disney Wiki, of the three (Geronimi, Luske, Jackson) where you'd think fans would post almost anything known about any Disney crew member or actor! All three of these directors began as animators at the Disney Studio, eventually honing their skills and advancing in the degree of responsibility that Walt Disney would give them.

Peter Pan (2003)
P.J. Hogan often receives a writer credit alongside his directing credit. He does so with Peter Pan. Hogan is the only director in this post who is still living. He was born in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia in 1962 so he's liable to be around for a number of years. Once again, not a lot has been writeen about him, so I'll mostly have to let his IMDb page represent him to you. Shieldmaiden let me know that Muriel's Wedding is a dark comedy, more dark than comedy. A site called hollywood.com has a bit more information about Hogan and his career. That site says that "Hogan spent the 1990s virtually putting his trademark on black comedies revolving around marriage-obsessed young women." Perhaps his best known film in that genre is My Best Friend's Wedding. The only Hogan film I have seen is Peter Pan which he campaigned to win the helm of.



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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Shieldmaiden » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:43 pm

YouTookMyName wrote:Wow. An actual conversation in this thread that doesn't involve me!
Now I'm confused, because I thought I was talking to you. Dreiser's right about that scene, though. :P
P.J. Hogan often receives a writer credit alongside his directing credit. He does so with Peter Pan.
You probably found this already, but the second screenwriter indicates here that Hogan completely rewrote the screenplay.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:11 pm

Shieldmaiden wrote:Now I'm confused, because I thought I was talking to you. Dreiser's right about that scene, though. :P
So we're both confused at this point. Time to move along! I thought you and dreiser were talking about it because I haven't seen the film. :D
Shieldmaiden wrote:You probably found this already, but the second screenwriter indicates here that Hogan completely rewrote the screenplay.
Michael Goldenberg wrote:Though, director PJ Hogan had a different view of how the story should play and eventually rewrote the script, he did keep Wendy as the character through which we view the world of Pan.
I'm glad you found this. I'll steal it and thank you for it. I might have found it when I went searching for links and information, but it was a part of my vast ignorance up until I read your post! The Screenplay tech post comes up on Saturday, if I'm able to stay on schedule. This statement of Goldenberg's is of interest to me because you probably noticed that in the Disney film review I picked up on that very same lens: Wendy and Hook seem to me to be the main characters. There is no doubt that in Hogan's film Wendy is the equal character to Pan, if not his better in terms of importance. After all, he says that a girl is worth 20 boys. ;)
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:06 am

Image

A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)
The Shootists
Image
Peter Pan (1924)
James Wong Howe was born in China in 1899. He died in the US in 1976 having lived a dream career as a Hollywood Director of Photography that spanned from 1919 when he was clapper boy and assistant camerman on silent films in black and white, to the dawn of sound, and the coming of color for everything, ending with Funny Lady in 1975. As the cinematographer on 139 titles he journeyed into Oscar nomination territory nine times, and took home the golden statuette for Black & White Photography in 1955 (The Rose Tattoo) and 1963 (Hud). He was nominated in both color and black & white categories during his career. Howe also worked as director on seven titles, the first in 1930 and the last in 1963. The number of films that he shot that you have seen is too long to include here, but you can find it in the link above. He was the guy behind the lens for Herbert Brenon's last silent film, Laugh, Clown, Laugh in 1928. He first worked with Brenon in 1923 on The Woman with Four Faces. Peter Pan was their sixth project together.

Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953)
There is no Director of Photography for this film, because it is animated. The art directors would be considered in the same role, but they appear in a different tech post. I didn't even see a listing for camera operators, without whom an animated film could not be done before digital rendering.

Peter Pan (2003)
Australian Donald McAlpine makes his third appearance in this thread as the Director of Photography on the Pan film. We've previously seen his work on Romeo+Juliet and The Time Machine. I have nothing to add to the write-up for The Time Machine other than a couple of edits:
If you study his Filmography, you will see a lot of other famous titles in the list. He has been the director of photography on 57 titles from 1969 to 2013. McAlpine has worked on a large number of high-profile titles, including Moulin Rounge!, Peter Pan (2003), The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, X-Men Origins: Wolverine, and most recently Ender's Game. His career has had him in charge of lighting and principle photography on a lot of titles that you've likely heard of. Between Paul Vogel's time and McAlpine's time the prestige of films with science-fiction content rose amazingly, to the point where someone like McAlpine can be worked into the budget of such a movie. Whatever flaws you might see in the 2002 remake of The Time machine, they are not the fault of the DP!
Obviously, his work on Peter Pan is top notch, lending a great deal of the magic to the proceedings.


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What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:53 pm

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A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)
Slaving Over a Hot Typewriter
Image
Peter Pan (1924)
Image
Willis Goldbeck has the screen credit for the screenplay, although his billing is second to J.M. Barrie's. Peter Pan is Goldbeck's fifth credited screenplay. He adapted Wild Orchids for the screen in 1929 (the released film starred Greta Garbo). From 1938 to 1942 Goldbeck had a successful run of screenplays for a series based on the characters Dr. Kildare and Dr. Gillespie. He wrote a noir script for a film released in 1955 (Tiger by the Tail) and the 1958 horror film The Colossus of New York credits him with the story. Goldbeck's most memorable screenplay, for which he did not receive screen credit, is probably the 1932 film Freaks.

Here is a rejected scenario for the 1924 film. I'm not sure whether this is from Goldbeck's pen or not. At first I was thrown by the way in which dialog is handled, but then I realized that the author was inserting the copy for title cards!

Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953)
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There are nine men credited with the story for the Disney Peter Pan story. Obviously, James M. Barrie has a writer credit, but then there are Ted Sears, Erdman Penner, Bill Peet, Winston Hibler, Joe Rinaldi, Milt Banta, Ralph Wright, and William Cottrell. There are so many writers on the Disney staff who have been credited at IMDb that I can't possibly do a filmography analysis for each of them in the space for this technical post. I found a photo which is in the banner above that features Sears, Penner and Hibler with Disney, working on Alice in Wonderland. I know that the three worked on that film. I didn't look to see who else worked with them. I know that those three were involved in writing lyrics for the songs in Peter Pan.

Here is a transcript of the dialog from the film if you're interested.

Slaving Over a Hot Word Processor
Peter Pan (2003)
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P.J. Hogan and Michael Goldenberg receive credit for this screenplay. It is worth noting that J.M. Barrie is not credited alongside them. Shieldmaiden found in interesting interview with Michael Goldenberg on booksandwands.com in which he claims that Hogan almost completely rewrote his screenplay so that only one aspect remains with any strength.
Rilian wrote:Goldenberg modestly describes the Pan producers’ desire for him to write Pan with a sense of wonderment, like he doesn’t quite understand why they came to him with the project, why he was suddenly the guy for the job. This is why he believes Heyman had to have played a role in it.

So thrown by the eagerness and the subject of the project, Goldenberg even said no...twice! He said no on the grounds that Pan is a classic story with so many adaptations, we weren’t in need of another one at the time. Hook had most recently come out and was a wonderful retelling. However, the more he thought about it, the more he was able to see the relevancy the story had to modern times and agreed.

He had to, as he says, “get in touch with his inner Wendy.” He looked at the story as Wendy’s and wrote the screenplay with her as the central figure. Though, director PJ Hogan had a different view of how the story should play and eventually rewrote the script, he did keep Wendy as the character through which we view the world of Pan.


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What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:53 pm

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A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)
Unseen, Often Unsung
Image
Peter Pan (1924)
I was astonished to learn that there is no screen credit for a film editor on the 1924 adaptation of Peter Pan. Even though that saves me time, since I don't have to write much in this space, I know that someone did the work and I'm sad to see that the name of this man or woman is lost to history.

Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953)
Animated films have to be edited just like live action films. Scenes are drawn and photographed, or rendered, and there are heads and tails on the action. You can imagine in advance what you want the shot to look like, but it's very difficult to imagine exactly where you want to cut from one angle to another. Besides, even if it is possible for you to shoot it frame-perfect, there has to be a negative cutter who assembles the takes you want into A & B reels for splice-less printing on an optical printer. A & B reels are longer necessary with digital mastering, but in 1953 they were. Donald Halliday receives credit as Film Editor on this picture. Unfortunately, there is little or nothing that I can report to you about him other than the titles of the films he edited for Disney. I found no source for biographical information. Not on fandango.com, not on movies.yahoo.com, not on mubi.com, not on hollywood.com, not on IMDb. There are no photos of him that turn up in a Google search for his name along with the word 'images.' We know his name at least, and we can see his work. But knowledge of who he was is not available on the internet. I have to believe that it exists somewhere in some Disney art books or something. His last editing job for Disney was 1963's The Sword in the Stone.

Peter Pan (2003)
A co-editorial team, Garth Craven and Michael Kahn receive credit for the editing task on P.J. Hogan's film. Craven's editorial career began in 1973 with Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid. Although he is still alive, he has edited only one film since 2003. Craven's two collaborations with P.J. Hogan are My Best Friend's Wedding and Peter Pan. There is not much biographical information available about Craven. Michael Kahn has edited a lot of Steven Spielberg's films. So, his latest completed job is title #67 in his filmography: Lincoln. As of December 3, 2012 he is working on #68, Robopocalypse due out in 2014. Interestingly, one of Kahn's editorial projects prior to Peter Pan was Spielberg's Hook. Kahn seems to fit his editorial style to the film, relying on the topic and overall mood to control the selection of shots and the pacing. No doubt he works closely with the director in this regard. There is a good write-up about his career by Edgar Wright that includes the demo reel shown in 2011 when Kahn received an ACE Lifetime Achievement Award.



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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:01 pm

Locating photos and information for these technical posts is getting frustrating. As you can see, I had no photos for two of the men in the Editing post for Peter Pan. At least we know their names.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:37 pm

Wow. For the past week I haven't been able to work on this thread, not even behind the scenes, because of my normally part-time job becoming temporarily full time as our church filled the 100 backpacks for the homeless that we've done for two years in a row. And I'm in charge of getting it done. They're all almost filled. 97 of them need one last item.

I was looking forward to putting up the next Pan post today, but I've not been able to get myself to work on it very diligently. I think what I need is a day off. I'm just doing laundry and reading the Net and relaxing with my nook and doing a lot of nothing productive.

Surely y'all have days like that sometimes. :)

There was actually a post scheduled for the 6th that I moved to the 20th, but then today's scheduled post caught up with me and I will get it posted this week. But not likely today unless a sudden burst of ambition strikes me. The thing is, no one knows the schedule but me!
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:26 am

Hmmm. Even with no sudden burst of ambition I still got the day's scheduled post done. I think it's because I had decided not to care whether I finished it, and it just sort of congealed over the day with a little work here and there.

Oh, the cleverness of me!
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:26 am

Image

A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)
Places You Could Go on teh Netz

While researching these three films and the collateral films and TV shows and books and graphic novels that have sprung from J. M. Barrie's original ideas, I've accumulated a lot of bookmarks. I think I usually overdo it for this post in a Rematch, so I'll scale back here. For one thing, clips have appeared in other posts already, so I'm skipping those for this round. And for some categories I might just link to a Google search result or two. It's the Christmas season, and I'm giving myself an easy time with this post as a present!

Image We always begin with the Wikipedia.
J.M. Barrie.
Peter Pan or the Boy Who Wouldn't Grow Up
Maude Adams
Peter Pan 1924
Peter Pan 1953
Producer's Showcase Peter Pan 1960
Peter Pan 1976. See it (posted to YouTube from a VHS tape that has been through the mill).
Peter Pan 2003
Based on Peter Pan. This is not an exhaustive list, because this GN series and this comic series are not included.



Image NEWSY sorta LINKS
Though true at the time for the Cathy Rigby Peter Pan, this became untrue a few years later when she returned to the role at age 60, in 2011.

Peter Pan's a Popular Boy: Four Upcoming Adaptations of the Classic Tale By Alison Nastasi Posted Mar 18th 2011 4:00PM

Mar 18, 2011 by Brian Gallagher Five Peter Pan Projects in the Works. Hmm. He found one more than Alison Nastasi did. And on the same day, too.

Peter Pan, 1924 Presented at the 2001 SF Silent Film Festival



Image ACADEMIC sorta LINKS:
Peter Pan (2003) - A Story Analysis bendaimmortal posted Dec. 2011

The Novel The character of Peter Pan appeared first in The White Bird (1902) before taking the stage in 1904. The story was then expanded and became a novel Peter and Wendy in 1911.



Image REVIEWS and INFORMATION:

A Review of the 1924 film which includes this quote: "The Museum of Modern Art couldn't find it, nor could the Cinematheque Francaise, nor any of the rabid private collectors, who could sometimes materialize copies that more legitimate sources could not. It was one of the most important of missing American films." There is a good listing of cast members with mini-bios.

Okay, ScreenIt was a resource I used when my sons were young. But this Peter Pan review is kind of odd in some regards.

Meredith Werner at io9 says "Sexy Captain Hook sucks the magic out of Syfy’s Neverland"

Who Is Peter Pan? April 5, 2012 Alison Lurie New York Review of Books.

Posted on April 9, 2010 at 1:29 pm. Sandy Duncan is Peter Pan

on February 05, 1953 by Wade Major (The date is obviously wrong; might be Aug 2008): Peter Pan boxoffice.com. This fellow really doesn't like Jeremy Sumpter in the role of Peter. "The lone American in a mostly British cast, Jeremy Sumpter ("Frailty") looks the part, but lacks the charisma and presence to keep pace with his European co-stars, plagued by a distracting lisp and a nagging inability to match their impeccable elocution." I quoted a bit of this in a review, but I didn't link to the entire article.


Image MISCELLANY and TRIVIA:
A Peter Pan ballet? A Peter Pan opera? You knew about the musical. You knew about the movies. The ballet and opera exist. I don't know whether they are all based on the same person's operatic work or ballet score, though. I thought you might find it interesting enough to dig that deeply. Okay, here's a review of a ballet production.

In your heart of hearts you knew this had to exist, right?

Things They Keep Putting Into Peter Pan Adaptations That Weren't in the Book

Use this link at your own peril. If you're not back within three days we'll send in a search party.

I truly believe that's enough links. *claps hands*
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:25 am

A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)

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The Fascination with Not Growing Up

For a time I had it: an intense determination that I would never become an adult. I remember how adamant I was to never join their number when I finally realized that all the adults around me had once been children. The feeling didn't persist forever, but it makes me wonder: Was Barrie onto something universal about childhood when he invented The Boy Who Wouldn't Grow Up?

Sister posts photos of her fellas in a certain thread around here. Jedi and Hank post pix of their daughters. These beloved ones are frozen in time in those photographs: the images of Sister's son, and Hank and Jedi's daughters will never grow up. I haven't read anything that makes me think that James Barrie was looking at a photo of a child when he conceived of Peter Pan, but I read the Wiki article that revealed that
The notion of a boy who would never grow up was based on J. M. Barrie's older brother who died in an ice-skating accident the day before he turned 14, and thus always stayed a young boy in his mother's mind.
The film Finding Neverland may have mentioned this, but I don't recall any mention being made.

In a sense, all recordings of us freeze us in time. There are movies of actors and actresses when they were younger that might haunt them. On the commentary track for the 1958 movie The Fly, actor David Hedison says that he doesn't usually watch films of himself when he was younger, and then his voice trails off. He gives no reason, but perhaps it's because he has aged (it's inevitable, short of death) and if my memories of my youth are any indication, they are always there at a second's notice. It takes only a small impetus to make you think of the "better days" of yore. Do we all have a hidden regret that we've grown older? Does it remind us of things we dreamed of doing but never have gotten around to doing? Was Barrie onto something universal about being alive when he invented The Boy Who Wouldn't Grow Up?

Who doesn't recall his or her own childhood when around children? Is there perhaps a flicker of identification? Perhaps a gesture of desire to join them again, to be free of the nagging troubles of adulthood? When you're a child, a boy for instance, and Freddie is mean to you it's altogether possible that ten minutes later you and Freddie will be fast friends once more. Adulthood brings longer-term memory (and less grace) to propel us into holding grudges. But even grudge-holding starts in childhood, as soon as we begin to fathom that those beastly kids aren't really changing: they're becoming chameleons who only seem nice for the moment.

Peter Pan has exactly the same kind of short-duration memory: after he kills Hook he doesn't even remember that the pirate ever existed. He lives in the moment. Adults who live in the moment seem to us like children, changing their minds frequently and forgetting to fulfill obligations if something more interesting comes along in the meantime. Peter does this when he promises to come get Wendy for spring cleaning the year after their Never Neverland adventure...and then he finally remembers to show up when her daughter Jane is a preteen.

"Care" means "worry" or "concern," so childhood is a time when we don't care; when we are, as Barrie says, "heartless," toward others. But only for a moment. Only until we remember or think of something else that matters to us for a brief time. We all recall what it was like to think we might always be children, and never grow up. Peter Pan as a character is like a photo, keeping that moment fresh and permanent for all who meet him.
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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:43 am

I wrote this essay (well, the last half of it) this morning pretty early. Then I decided to see if I could find a "graphic editing solution" for my new Win 8 laptop, and a way to copy all my Remake Rematch files over to the new computer hard disk, as a backup and as a way to work on them when I'm on teh goez.

Getting the homegroup talking took three and a half hours. It was supposed to be a piece of cake.

Then I looked at GIMP which I installed the other day and decided the learning curve was too steep...maybe I could try Photoshop Elements 11, which I downloaded this afternoon for a 30-day trial. All these things took hours for files to transfer across the network, and for a 1.86 GB program to download, etc, etc.

Anyway, the other essay I was going to write and post today is ... well, it's not happening today. :D

The PS-E11 learning curve isn't quite as steep as GIMP. It's still Photoshop which I've used professionally and in a hobby sense ever since 1994. But I never owned anything later than 7.01, so the Photoshop CS interface is new to me, and I'm not sure the Expert mode interface in Elements 11 is actually that of CS 6. Really, I rather doubt it. I cannot afford the price of CS 6 although I drool over its web page once in a while. I've thought of downloading the free trial just to try it out, but I'd want it so bad if I did that, and I don't have the bucks.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:16 am

That "not growing up" essay is really good, Gort. I can imagine being an old Hollywood star and not wanting to watch the movies I made in my youth. Whenever I visit my sister she has older pictures of us figured prominently in her home. I can't help but wonder "what the hell happened to that guy?!" when I see a snapshot of me in the '90s. Reminds me a bit about that old Twilight Zone episode with Ida Lupino where she's obsessively watching her old Hollywood movies.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

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The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:43 am

Image

A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)
Lines You Might Like

Quotations from the films of Peter Pan are quite uniform. They come from Barrie's play or novel.

Image

Why not take advantage of the intertitles?
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IMDb Quotes page Peter Pan 1924
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Mr. Smee: Oh, dear, dear, dear, Captain Hook. Shooting a man in the middle of his cadenza? That ain't good form, you know.
Captain Hook: "Good form," Mr. Smee?
[suddenly yelling]
Captain Hook: Blast good form!
[waves his hook in front of Smee]
Captain Hook: Did Pan show good form when he did *this* to me?
Mr. Smee: Why, Captain, cutting your hand off was only a childish prank, you might say.
Captain Hook: Aye, but throwing it to that crocodile! That cursed beast liked the taste of me so well he's followed me ever since, licking his chops for the rest of me.
Mr. Smee: And he would've had you by now, Captain, if he hadn't swallowed that alarm clock. But now, when he's about, he'd warn you, as you might say, with his tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock.

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[At Skull Rock, Peter Pan is out of Smee's sight impersonating Captain Hook]
Peter Pan: Mr. Smee! Just exactly what do you think you're doing?
Mr. Smee: Putting her back like you said, Captain.
Peter Pan: I said nothing of the sort!
Mr. Smee: Oh, uh... b-but Cap...
Peter Pan: For the last time, Mr. Smee, take the princess back to her people!
[screams]
Peter Pan: UNDERSTAND?
Mr. Smee: Aye, aye, sir.
Peter Pan: Oh, and one more thing. When you return to the ship, tell the whole crew to help themselves to me best rum.

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[at Skull Rock, Peter Pan has disguised his voice to sound like Captain Hook to trick Mr. Smee into returning Princess Tiger Lily to the Indians. The real Hook notices Smee rowing past him, out of Skull Rock]
Mr. Smee: Well, at last, Captain Hook's comin' to his senses.
Captain Hook: [surprised] Odd's fish!
Mr. Smee: [to Tiger Lily] I told him all along you Indians wouldn't betray Peter Pan.
Captain Hook: [sweetly] And just what do you think you are doing, Mr. Smee?
[He stops the rowboat from moving by placing his foot on it]
Mr. Smee: Just what you told me, Captain: carrying out your orders.
Captain Hook: My orders?
Mr. Smee: Why, yes, Captain. Didn't you just say to go...
Captain Hook: [shoving Smee's rowboat back into Skull Rock] Put her back, you blithering idiot!
[to himself]
Captain Hook: My orders. Of all the bumbling...

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Peter Pan: Girls talk too much!
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Mr. Smee: [singing] Crook... crook... crickety-crockety crickety-crook, the croc is after Captain Hook -
[Hook hits him on the head]

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IMDb Quotes page Peter Pan 1953
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Peter (whispering): Forget them, Wendy. Forget them all. Come with me where you'll never, never have to worry about grown up things again.
Wendy: Never is an awfully long time.

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Smee: Captain, the ice is melting, the sun is out, and the flowers are all in bloom...
Captain Hook: He's back.

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Peter: If you wish it.
Slightly: If I wish it?
Peter: IF YOU WISH IT.

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Wendy: Peter. You won't forget me, will you?
Peter: Me? Forget? Never.
Wendy: Will you ever come back?
Peter: To hear stories... About me.

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Hook: And now, Peter Pan, you shall die.
Peter: To die would be an awfully big adventure.

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Wendy: Where do you live?
Peter: Second to the right, and then straight on till morning.
Wendy: They put that on the letters?
Peter: Don't get any letters.
Wendy: But your mother gets letters.
Peter: Don't have a mother.
Wendy: No wonder you were crying.
Peter: I wasn't crying about mothers. I was crying because I can't get this shadow to stick. And I wasn't crying.

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Wendy: Once upon a time there was a boy named Peter Pan, who decided not to grow up.
Hook: Skip the prologue.
Wendy: So he flew away to Neverland where the pirates are.
Hook: What fun he must have had.
Wendy: Yes but he was rather lonely.
Hook: Lonely? He needed a Wendy.
Pirate: I need a Wendy.
Hook: Why a Wendy?
Wendy: He liked my stories.
Hook: What stories?
Wendy: Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty.
Hook: Love stories?
Wendy: Adventures! In which good triumphs over evil!
Hook: They all end in a kiss.
Wendy: [gasps]
Hook: A kiss. He does feel! He feels about you.
Hook: She told him stories. He taught her to fly. How?
Wendy: You just think happy thoughts. They lift you into the air.
Hook: Alas, I have no happy thoughts.
Wendy: That brings you down!
Hook: [Hook threatens to cut Wendy's throat with his hook] How else?
Michael: Fairy dust! You need fairy dust!
The Lost Boys: Michael!
Hook: What of Pan? Would unhappy thoughts bring him down?
Wendy: He has no unhappy thoughts.

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IMDb Quotes page Peter Pan 2003
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:53 pm

A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)
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Live Action vs. Animation


It is sometimes difficult to draw the line between live action and animation these days. Back in 1924 it was easy to see the difference, and that hadn't changed by 1953. The special effects for the 1924 film were done in-camera. The special effects in 1953 were mostly drawn, with some lighting and superimposition effects done in-camera from time to time. But P.J. Hogan had an arsenal of computer assisted effects that he could (and did) bring out in full force to create the Never Neverland and the boy who wouldn't grow up that we see in his film.

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Herbert Brenon had the idea of advancing fairy tech by having his special effects crew manipulate an actual glowing object, one with the vague outlines of a fairy's body and wings, to represent Tinker Bell in all but closeup shots. The effect is much better than the light-on-a-wall sort of effect that audiences had seen in the stage plays since 1904. I imagine it led to high school producers of the play adopting glowing fairies on fishing line after 1924. D-cell batteries have been around since 1898, so a play budget could have included fine electric wiring to illuminate a bulb within a faux faerie dangling at the end. In the film, a shot of Peter emptying fairies out of a bundle of leaves is made with in-camera superimposition effects. The sudden emergence of smoke from John's hat when it is slapped atop Wendy's new little house to become her chimney, is simply practical effects and jump-cut editing. This doesn't eliminate any cinemagic from these moments, of course, but it means that the effects look dated to our eyes.
Image
By 1953, with the adoption of hand-made drawings of the characters, even though it took a passel of people to trace and paint the thousands of cellophane sheets required, Disney's crew was able to have Peter Pan and the flying Darlings do anything imaginable. This lack of boundaries was probably the most fun aspect of cel animation, and allowed it to reign over fantasy stories for a long time. To my knowledge there weren't any Peter Pan films made using Ray Harryhausen-style stop-motion animation. And even though the Disney animation artists used live action as reference, sometimes rotoscoping (tracing) prints of the live action reference footage, for the most part the Disney team stood aside from that, and made the cartoon characters mimic the live-action references rather than being slavish to them.

As for flying effects and the like, today the 1953 animation looks as fresh as ever. I think that the movements pulled off by one scene in the 1953 animation where Peter 'flies' with his feet following the circumference of a circle while standing with his arms crossed, is the coolest flying effect in all three films. It's very brief, but very imaginative. Certainly, P.J. Hogan could have mimicked that motion if he had chosen to. Even Herbert Brennon could have had Pan make that move, but it would have been a lot more difficult to do with an actor and a flying rig. So this is where full animation has an edge.
Image
It is sometimes difficult to tell in the 2003 Hogan remake what is 'there' and what is not. I imagine that much of the film was shot with a blue screen background into which any number of image-plates could be dropped. I have found very little about the making of the film. A few of the extras from the 2003 DVD have been posted at YouTube. It is more difficult to make a person fly when you're merging live action with some kind of film image, whether another live action plate or an animated graphic. But the difficulty isn't with the compositing, it's with creating a reasonable facsimile of the movements of flying. Hogan and crew managed to create the illusion by using the 21st century equivalent of Herbert Brenon's in-camera super-impositions.

Hogan used Peter against a blue screen and superimposed him into the Darling's nursery to make sure he had no shadow at first. This effect looks "wrong" because we expect a shadow. But that's what is intended, until Peter captures his shadow and Wendy sews it to his toes.
Image
As I have written before, CGI and computer-assisted supers blur the line between animation and live action. Part of what we see is straight off the cameras, other things are created by 3D-modeling, and still others are animated effects...but they merge together reasonably well, so that it isn't obvious what is what. Most of the time. It would be interesting to see a version of Peter Pan made in the same way that The Adventures of Tintin was done. Mo-cap would be useful for the flying effects, I think, but right now the CGI actors don't easily fool the eye into thinking they are real. Perhaps in films where only a few shots require replacing a live actor with a CGI equivalent (such as Doc Ock sinking into the water in Spiderman 2) it is economically feasible, and works for the audience (because for a mere glance realistic is good enough). Perhaps not yet for an entire feature.

To my eye all three films are successful in bringing the adventure to the screen, but you have to make allowances for the time and style in order to draw that conclusion. Also, there is a certain pride taken in "simply finding a way to put something on the screen and to suggest certain situations," that holds sway in the production community, but lacks support from non-production audiences. P.J. Hogan had quite a challenge when he set out to fuse live action and fantasy elements in his film. For a small number of effects that he attempted, "it wasn't there yet." But for most of the scenes in the movie the techniques employed really shine. Fortunately, he paid attention to the stiffer requirements of non-production audiences, and didn't use any effects technique that was drastically sub-par in his film. That's what makes it, in terms of effects, the best Peter Pan to date.

How long before someone outdoes it? I couldn't predict any dates, but I don't think it will be all that long.





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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:33 pm

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A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)
Making the Things That Get Photographed


All three of these films involved photography, even the Disney animated version. All three involved manipulation of images in order to create illusions of something magical that could not exist in real life. But there were the usual challenges of every film production: backgrounds, costume design, makeup (or at least drawing it). There were the usual tensions between practical effects and special effects. Here are some of the people responsible for allowing us to see what we see whenever we watch these three films.

Peter Pan (1924)
Edward Smith gets credit for set decoration for the Herbert Brenon adaptation of Barrie's story. IMDb shows no other projects bearing his name! Indian director Roy Pomeroy is credited as second unit director on Peter Pan, but he did the special effects for the film, without a credit line. Pomeroy worked on special effects on 5 films between 1923 and 1927. Among his credits is "engineering effects" for Wings in 1927. He graduated to direction the next year on a sound version of Interference. His third and last directorial effort was in 1934, and past that date there are no credits listed for him at IMDb.

Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953)
Don DaGradi is credited with color and styling under the aegis of the animation department. I suppose you could say he did what production designers do, but I rather suspect that in this case there was no one person who oversaw every aspect of the look of the movie aside from the three main directors. There are a number pf persons credited with layout, and with character design, and with almost every aspect of the film. I guess in the case of an animated film, at least at the Disney factory in the 1950s, there weren't jobs analogous to those on a live-action set. So, the best thing to do if you want to discover who did what on the Disney Peter Pan is to follow this link to the IMDb Full Cast and Crew page and research these things for yourself! Pay attention to the name Ub Iwerks, credited on Peter Pan as "special processes," because he directed 109 titles (all shorts) between Disney's first Mickey Mouse cartoon in 1928, and when he switched over to special effects in 1941. So Iwerks is responsible for the techniques that allow Tinker Bell to move with a trail of fairy dust behind her and for reflections and other visual processes used in the film.

Peter Pan (2003)
Roger Ford served as production designer on P.J. Hogan's 2003 film. Richard Hobbs was the supervising art director, with a staff: Alicia Maccarone and Michelle McGahey. Kerrie Brown decorated the sets, and Janet Patterson had the responsibility of getting costumes designed, created and fitted to all the cast members.

You remember the guy who was nominated for an Oscar for art direction and set decoration for Babe, in 1996, don't you? I don't either, but it was Roger Ford. Many of his production design credits are for films that appeal to entire families. It makes sense that he would have this job for Peter Pan. Richard Hobbs's credits run the gamut from sci-fi to comic book adaptations. Kerrie Brown has also worked on titles in different genres. She apparently works often with Roger Ford on projects. And Janet Patterson's costuming expertise has been put to good use in ten titles, many of which are period romances. From that, I guess, she had the knowledge to outfit pirates, Indians and children who had no mothers to dress them. She has frequently doubled as Production Designer alongside her costume duties.




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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:49 am

I've read the Armitage Trail novel Scarface. I've watched both films and auto-grabbed both.

Two weeks to write and post all the entries? That's nuts. :shifty:
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:44 am

YouTookMyName wrote:I've read the Armitage Trail novel Scarface. I've watched both films and auto-grabbed both.

Two weeks to write and post all the entries? That's nuts. :shifty:
Especially during the holidays.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:12 am

A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)

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The Novel and Play

The three movies featured in this Multimatch have a dual source: the 1904 play by James M. Barrie, and his 1911 novel adaptation of that play. Funny, isn't it, how a derivative of a dramatic or literary work can become the public image of that work, yet have many deviations from the original work? In this case we have three forces at work: Barrie's stage play, Barrie's own adaptation of that play into a novel, and the traditions that have grown up around the story both in performance and criticism. And don't underestimate the influence of television and its enormous reach in codifying Peter Pan for the masses.

Naturally, the novel gives us a better view inside the mind of that odd creature, Peter Pan. But the stage directions include an awful lot of detail about all the characters, that the audience never knows when watching the actors on stage.

Having never seen a stage production of the original play, I read the script with interest. Barrie describes things in the stage directions for the play that are impossible (or nearly so) to realize on stage. He must have been thinking novel-wise even as he composed the dramatic version. In fact, reading the stage directions gives me the same kind of inner experience that reading the novel does: I am in the shoes of the characters as I read his stage directions. This is the very end of the play (Peter's visit to grown-up Wendy was added in the novel):
James M. Barrie wrote:PETER (passionately). I don't want to go to school and learn solemn things. No one is going to catch me, lady, and make me a man. I want always to be a little boy and to have fun.

(So perhaps he thinks, but it is only his greatest pretend.)

MRS. DARLING (shivering every time WENDY pursues him in the air). Where are you to live, Peter?

PETER. In the house we built for Wendy. The fairies are to put it high up among the tree-tops where they sleep at night.

WENDY (rapturously). To think of it!

MRS. DARLING. I thought all the fairies were dead.

WENDY (almost reprovingly). No indeed! Their mothers drop the babies into the Never birds' nests, all mixed up with the eggs, and the mauve fairies are boys and the white ones are girls, and there are some colours who don't know what they are. The row the children and the birds make at bath time is positively deafening.

PETER. I throw things at them.

WENDY. You will be rather lonely in the evenings, Peter.

PETER. I shall have Tink.

WENDY (flying up to the window). Mother, may I go?

MRS. DARLING (gripping her for ever). Certainly not. I have got you home again, and I mean to keep you.

WENDY. But he does so need a mother.

MRS. DARLING. So do you, my love.

PETER. Oh, all right.

MRS. DARLING (magnanimously). But, Peter, I shall let her go to you once a year for a week to do your spring cleaning.

(WENDY revels in this, but PETER, who has no notion what a spring cleaning is, waves a rather careless thanks.)

MRS. DARLING. Say good-night, Wendy.

WENDY. I couldn't go down just for a minute?

MRS. DARLING. No.

WENDY. Good-night, Peter!

PETER. Good-night, Wendy!

WENDY. Peter, you won't forget me, will you, before spring-cleaning time comes?

(There is no answer, for he is already soaring high. For a moment after he is gone we still hear the pipes. MRS. DARLING closes and bars the window.)



We are dreaming now of the Never Land a year later. It is bed-time on the island, and the blind goes up to the whispers of the lovely Never music. The blue haze that makes the wood below magical by day comes up to the tree-tops to sleep, and through it we see numberless nests all lit up, fairies and birds quarrelling for possession, others flying around just for the fun of the thing and perhaps making bets about where the little house will appear to-night. It always comes and snuggles on some tree-top, but you can never be sure which; here it is again, you see John's hat first as up comes the house so softly that it knocks some gossips off their perch. When it has settled comfortably it lights up, and out come Peter and Wendy.

Wendy looks a little older, but Peter is just the same. She is cloaked for a journey, and a sad confession must be made about her; she flies so badly now that she has to use a broomstick.


WENDY (who knows better this time than to be demonstrative at partings). Well, good-bye, Peter; and remember not to bite your nails.

PETER. Good-bye, Wendy.

WENDY. I'll tell mother all about the spring cleaning and the house.

PETER (who sometimes forgets that she has been here before). You do like the house?

WENDY. Of course it is small. But most people of our size wouldn't have a house at all. (She should not have mentioned size, for he has already expressed displeasure at her growth. Another thing, one he has scarcely noticed, though it disturbs her, is that she does not see him quite so clearly now as she used to do.) When you come for me next year, Peter—you will come, won't you?

PETER. Yes. (Gloating) To hear stories about me!

WENDY. It is so queer that the stories you like best should be the ones about yourself.

PETER (touchy). Well, then?

WENDY. Fancy your forgetting the lost boys, and even Captain Hook!

PETER. Well, then?

WENDY. I haven't seen Tink this time.

PETER. Who?

WENDY. Oh dear! I suppose it is because you have so many adventures.

PETER (relieved). 'Course it is.

WENDY. If another little girl—if one younger than I am—(She can't go on.) Oh, Peter, how I wish I could take you up and squdge you! (He draws back.) Yes, I know. (She gets astride her broomstick.) Home! (It carries her from him over the tree-tops.

In a sort of way he understands what she means by 'Yes,I know,' but in most sorts of ways he doesn't. It has something to do with the riddle of his being. If he could get the hang of the thing his cry might become 'To live would be an awfully big adventure!' but he can never quite get the hang of it, and so no one is as gay as he. With rapturous face he produces his pipes, and the Never birds and the fairies gather closer, till the roof of the little house is so thick with his admirers that some of them fall down the chimney. He plays on and on till we wake up.)
In the novel Barrie takes advantage of that medium's ability to examine the inner lives of his creations. He is able in the novel to set up a scenario in advance that lets us know that Peter makes up the directions to Neverland that he rattles off to Wendy, simply because he feels like he has to say something. They are meaningless directions!
James M. Barrie wrote:If he thought at all, but I don't believe he ever thought, it was that he and his shadow, when brought near each other, would join like drops of water, and when they did not he was appalled. He tried to stick it on with soap from the bathroom, but that also failed. A shudder passed through Peter, and he sat on the floor and cried.

His sobs woke Wendy, and she sat up in bed. She was not alarmed to see a stranger crying on the nursery floor; she was only pleasantly interested.

"Boy," she said courteously, "why are you crying?"

Peter could be exceeding polite also, having learned the grand manner at fairy ceremonies, and he rose and bowed to her beautifully. She was much pleased, and bowed beautifully to him from the bed.

"What's your name?" he asked.

"Wendy Moira Angela Darling," she replied with some satisfaction. "What is your name?"

"Peter Pan."

She was already sure that he must be Peter, but it did seem a comparatively short name.

"Is that all?"

"Yes," he said rather sharply. He felt for the first time that it was a shortish name.

"I'm so sorry," said Wendy Moira Angela.

"It doesn't matter," Peter gulped.

She asked where he lived.

"Second to the right," said Peter, "and then straight on till morning."

"What a funny address!"

Peter had a sinking. For the first time he felt that perhaps it was a funny address.

"No, it isn't," he said.

"I mean," Wendy said nicely, remembering that she was hostess, "is that what they put on the letters?"

He wished she had not mentioned letters.

But your mother gets letters?"

"Don't have a mother," he said. Not only had he no mother, but he had not the slightest desire to have one. He thought them very over-rated persons. Wendy, however, felt at once that she was in the presence of a tragedy.
Also, Barrie is able to examine the kinds of fantasies that individual children might concoct:
James M. Barrie wrote:Of course the Neverlands vary a good deal. John's, for instance, had a lagoon with flamingoes flying over it at which John was shooting, while Michael, who was very small, had a flamingo with lagoons flying over it. John lived in a boat turned upside down on the sands, Michael in a wigwam, Wendy in a house of leaves deftly sewn together. John had no friends, Michael had friends at night, Wendy had a pet wolf forsaken by its parents, but on the whole the Neverlands have a family resemblance, and if they stood still in a row you could say of them that they have each other's nose, and so forth. On these magic shores children at play are for ever beaching their coracles. We too have been there; we can still hear the sound of the surf, though we shall land no more.

Of all delectable islands the Neverland is the snuggest and most compact, not large and sprawly, you know, with tedious distances between one adventure and another, but nicely crammed. When you play at it by day with the chairs and table-cloth, it is not in the least alarming, but in the two minutes before you go to sleep it becomes very real. That is why there are night-lights.
There is a school of interpretation that has all the story taking place in Wendy's imagination (compare this to the later tale, Atonement which possibly owes some of its subtextual structure to long-standing critical ideas about what Barrie's story means). In that view, everything that happens is just a story the girl Wendy Darling concocts to tell herself and her brothers. But in both the play and the novel they are presented as if they are really taking place. The 1953 film picks up on this Wendy-is-imagining-it idea and has Wendy telling stories about Neverland to John and Michael. In the bizarre twist on the story that became Hook, Grandma Wendy says more or less that she told those stories but that they came to life. Interesting, isn't it, how a critical notion can later become part of the tradition about a literary piece?

The play, of course, became the skeleton and much of the meat of Jerome Robbins' musical adaptation. This was first a hit in the 1950's: the play by Barrie with some of the dialog and action removed, and songs added to replace what was taken out. In one sense the songs are supposed to give insight to the characters' inner thoughts, but mostly they just stick in your head until you want to jump off a tall building. Oh, maybe it isn't that bad, but the songs do not perform the same function as the inner dialog provided in the novel.

As I've written elsewhere in this Rematch, we're treated to what is basically the 1904 stage drama in Herbert Brenon's silent adaptation. The 1953 animated film picks up material that is only in the 1911 novel, and adds some of what had become traditional critique by that time. The 2003 version updates much of the ideas, yet keeps the basic structure of both novel and play and "plays" around with them in view of post-millennial special effects capabilities. But to many people the Mary Martin/Cathy Rigby notions of Peter Pan based on Robbins's musical play are the definitive ways of thinking about the story and the main character. Far more people have seen those televised programs than ever saw any of the movies, saw a staging of the play, or read the novel.



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Book cover Artwork © 2012, Scott Gustafson. Image of stage production © 2012 R. Finkelstein
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:14 am

All day writing. Several essays completed, GFX & all. All but one written.

I've made one joint essay between Rear Window-Disturbia and Peter Pan. I'll post it last, probably. But I found an interesting link between the two Rematches.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:15 am

A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)

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Tinker Bell and Wendy

From the novel version of the story, Chapter 13:
James M. Barrie wrote:"O Tink, did you drink it to save me?"
"Yes."

"But why, Tink?"

Her wings would scarcely carry her now, but in reply she alighted on his shoulder and gave his nose a loving bite. She whispered in his ear "You silly ass," and then, tottering to her chamber, lay down on the bed.

His head almost filled the fourth wall of her little room as he knelt near her in distress. Every moment her light was growing fainter; and he knew that if it went out she would be no more. She liked his tears so much that she put out her beautiful finger and let them run over it.

Her voice was so low that at first he could not make out what she said. Then he made it out. She was saying that she thought she could get well again if children believed in fairies.

Peter flung out his arms. There were no children there, and it was night time; but he addressed all who might be dreaming of the Neverland, and who were therefore nearer to him than you think: boys and girls in their nighties, and naked papooses in their baskets hung from trees.

"Do you believe?" he cried.

Tink sat up in bed almost briskly to listen to her fate.

She fancied she heard answers in the affirmative, and then again she wasn't sure.

"What do you think?" she asked Peter.

"If you believe," he shouted to them, "clap your hands; don't let Tink die."

Many clapped.

Some didn't.

A few beasts hissed.

The clapping stopped suddenly; as if countless mothers had rushed to their nurseries to see what on earth was happening; but already Tink was saved. First her voice grew strong, then she popped out of bed, then she was flashing through the room more merry and impudent than ever. She never thought of thanking those who believed, but she would have liked to get at the ones who had hissed.
And thus, Tinker Bell is saved. In the play, as you know, the audience is invited to clap to save her. And in the 2003 film Peter leads a chorus of "I do believe in fairies," which is always silly yet always makes me tear up for some reason. :shifty:

Tink has aspirations that Peter Pan doesn't comprehend. In the 1904 play Peter tells Wendy that Tinker Bell wants to be something to him, but it isn't his mother. In another version he says the same thing about Tiger Lily. In the 2003 film adaptation he dances in the air with Wendy, and makes few remarks about it. Especially when she presses him to tell her how he feels about her.

Tinker Bell is such a popular character that Disney has made a series of animated films featuring Tink and the other Neverland fairies as the stars. So far there are five films in the franchise, which currently spans from 2008 to 2012, with a sixth expected in 2014. Tinker Bell is so popular that Disney uses her as its unofficial mascot, and has for decades.
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Wendy Darling is the central figure of the 2003 film, and an argument can be made that she is the real central character of Barrie's works. Some people believe that the name Wendy didn't exist before Barrie used it for his girl character in Peter Pan. The link suggests that they are incorrect, but that Barrie's choice of the name for his character popularized it for girls in the 1920's. I wonder if the premiere of Herbert Brenon's 1924 film had anything to do with that rise in popularity. Here is another page with information about the name.

Wendy and Tinker Bell are certainly among the more interesting characters in Barrie's Peter Pan. And Wendy is the most beautifully complex of all those in the story. Wendy is not afraid of the strange boy crying in her bedroom floor; rather she is intrigued by him. There is something between the two pre-teens that Tink picks up on immediately, and with a tug of Wendy's hair, she tries to cut it short. Her jealous antic doesn't succeed. Wendy is all too happy to be the "mother" of this wayward flying child and his buddies. But Peter is pretty sure that they are pretending. Wendy, being a girl and developing what might be her first romantic attachments, isn't so sure it's make-believe.

Most likely, Wendy is having a crush. You've had them, and you know how difficult it is to tell with the first one whether it's infatuation or love. This is one of the most charming things about Barrie's girl character: she is a complete human girl, charming and smart, but bewildered by her own emotions.

Possibly (and some would argue that this is the case) Wendy is merely imagining Peter Pan. It is an interesting choice of fantasy paramours, isn't it? The boy needs her as a mother figure. She at first believes that he cannot continue to get along without her. She imagines that she will bring discipline to his life. Instead, all he wants to do is play and have fun (which she finds disappointing). Wendy is suffering from bad-boy syndrome early in her romantic life. She thinks at first that her love can "fix" Peter. But within the duration of the play Wendy recognizes her mistake. You have to find a guy who already has it worked out, rather than hoping that your love can show him the way. Peter will never grow up and no woman deserves to be saddled with that kind of boyfriend. Did Barrie make that statement on purpose, or by accident? In other words, am I reading something into his work based on my perspective, something that he didn't exactly intend? Regardless, I think the statement is in the play and the book, and with some strength at that.
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Tink is described as being so small that she can contain only one emotion at a time. Wendy is, of course, a full-sized girl with many emotions, all of which are swirling around inside her in new combinations. She doesn't know how to deal with them, as this is the first time some of them have sprung up with such force within her. But Wendy is a good example of what we call nowadays "a strong female character." This doesn't mean that she takes charge (although she does: She enlists her brothers as consorts in the trip to Never Neverland. And it is she who decides that they should return home to their parents), but that she finds creative ways to deal with the situations into which she is thrown. At the time Barrie wrote his play and novel, strength of character, not force of personality was the prevailing ideal. The interesting thing is that not much surgery had to be done on her character to make the girl Wendy a 21st century girl in the 2003 movie.

As I wrote in the review of the Disney film, by 1953 the story is presented as if it should be titled Wendy and Hook. As for Tinker Bell, she is an interesting side character, but never surfaces as the main character in Peter Pan. It's true that she acts out of jealousy and tricks Tootles into shooting down "the Wendy-bird," but Peter's kiss saves her. The boy is really angry with the fairy, and banishes her...for a week.

So, who wins the rivalry between the fairy and the girl? Wendy returns to London, missing her idea of who Peter is and who he could be. Tink gets to go back to Neverland with him. But Wendy has come to a realization: guys like that are only good for fantasy, and, as with many areas of life, most fantasies are best left being only fantasies. I think Wendy wins.




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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:10 pm

A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)

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Alternative Novels and Comics

In the essay about screen derivatives and adaptations of James M. Barrie's Peter Pan play and novel I talked about print tales that stem from Barrie's ideas. Graphic novels, comics and traditional novels have taken the character of Peter, and the realm of Neverland and twisted them into darker examinations of childhood, and evil.

Perhaps we no longer see childhood as a time of innocence? Perhaps we allow ourselves to focus more on the dangers to children than we once did as a society. Although Hook is about the darkest film presentation of something resembling Barrie's original story, graphic novels and print novels have taken a bizarre and violent twist on the original characters of Peter Pan. Peter often becomes bloodthirsty, and the Lost Boys sometimes turn into accomplices or enemies of this reorganized Peter.

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The Child Thief is a novel by (Gerald) Brom, in which Peter dwells in Avalon, where Flesh Eaters arrived on ships from Europe centuries before. They are some bizarre streak of Christian Puritans that seek to kill the Celtic gods and goddesses who live on Avalon and whose protective Mist keeps the Flesh Eaters from leaving. Peter (never called Pan in this novel) crosses quite easily through The Mist that separates modern New York City from Avalon, although they are geographically close. He goes into New York in order to entice children to come to Avalon with him...they must go willingly...after which they either become soldiers in his bloodthirsty army to drive the Flesh Eaters away, or they become sacrifices to the Flesh Eaters. Brom manages to give every major character some stripe of evil in this tale, but he keeps the suspense tight enough that his story pulls you through to the end. And the end is not what you'd expect.

Brom studied not only the Barrie sources, but a lot about Celtic mythology in developing his story. He was spurred toward telling this twisting of the Barrie tale by a line near the end of the unabridged edition of the novel where Peter Pan cannot recall Captain Hook when Wendy mentions him, and the boy carelessly tells her, "I forget them after I kill them."

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Grimm Fairy Tales: Neverland from Zenescope, tells the tale of a modern Hook who has to return to Neverland to battle the evil Peter Pan who rules the place with an iron fist, and whose consort is none other than Tinkerbell. But Tink becomes jealous when Hook's latest companion (Wendy Darling), the aunt of two boys (John and Michael Darling) who have been kidnapped by Pan, distracts the despot's eye. In this story Pan is not a child. Pan uses the souls of children to stay young. He kidnaps them from the real world in order to feed his addiction to eternal youth.

To begin with, at Rockland State Psychiatric hospital, a patient named Nathan is introduced to Wendy Darling, whose nephews have disappeared the night before. Nathan's right arm has been replaced with a prosthetic that bears two hooks on the end. When Wendy mentions that the kidnapper had a flying girlfriend, Nathan becomes involved. When he is hypnotically regressed, he, Wendy and his psychiatrist are transported to Neverland, where Nathan has a giant silver hook on his right arm. There are the familiar mermaids and redskins as well, in darker versions. The story concerns Nathan rescuing the Darling brothers, of course. It doesn't follow the Peter Pan storyline, only uses derivations of characters that appear in Barrie's work. At the end, as in The Child Thief, they wind up in New York City where Peter Pan has...let's just say, some troubles.

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Panned! by Broken Icon Comics, is a six-part comic book series that tracks the story of a man, Steven Crespo, who awakens after a night of drinking and a knock on the head, to find that he has been kidnapped and taken to Neverland to replace the most recently dispatched replacement for the original Captain Hook. His job is to find out what the first Captain Hook took with him when he died. If he does this, then all will be well in Neverland.

None of these three print vehicles has the same sparkling humor that Barrie introduces along with his version of the original story. The focus is on being edgy, although Panned! attempts to be somewhat funny. Two of Pan's Lost Boys kidnap Crespo. Author James Maddox admits in the brief note at the back of Vol. 1, "The concept for Panned! was initially a lot lighter and goofier than what the story is now turning out to be. Suddenly we've gone from a series of sight gags to characters that have darker histories and a conflict that could never be considered cut and dry."

For my money, although the artwork is good enough, the two comics lack the charm of Barrie's original stories for the play and novel. This is because the violence and ill-will are quite clearly presented, not shown beneath a veneer of "all is well." They lack the irony that bathes Barrie's story of a little boy who won't grow up and who kills pirates for the fun of it.

I thoroughly enjoyed The Child Thief.



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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:29 am

Heh. I didn't even notice I'd messed up the links in the signature.

(With them repaired this post will make absolutely no sense.)

It's too freakin' much trouble to not post it, though, after I've typed all this. :shifty:
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:29 am

A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)

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Hook, Finding Neverland and Neverland

In another essay I wondered whether Barrie had tapped into something primordial to the human heart with the idea of a child refusing to grow up. But it's clear that he tapped into a rich vein of story-telling with the characters in his 1904 play and 1911 novel that center on Peter Pan's adventures in Never Never Land. In the past couple of decades there has been a steady stream of adaptations of all sorts in print and on the screen, all of which grow out of Barrie's original characters.

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In 1991 Steven Spielberg brought out the film Hook, which is about Peter Banning, a grown up Peter Pan whose son and daughter are kidnapped by Captain Hook and taken to Never Land, where Peter finally realizes he has to go in order to rescue them. Banning's memories of being the Pan have faded, as most childhood memories do, but once back in Never Land he remembers who he was before he left to join the boys who did become adults. It's an interesting take on the character of The Boy Who Wouldn't Grow Up. An orphan, adopted by Grandma Wendy and taught to read, he has grown to be the CEO of a capital corporation in America, having been adopted by American parents. As is the status quo of all Hollywood stories (think of The Rock for the prime example of this) eventually Banning has to resort to physical fighting and killing in order to solve the immediate problem that faces him. That's really the most doltish aspect of Hook. Never Land is imaginary, so Peter should have been able to be more imaginative in his solution.

When I was watching Hook for this installment of the Rematch my viewing was interrupted by a power failure that lasted nearly 116 hours. That was okay. I was already becoming irritated by the movie, although my recollection of the first viewing (years before) was rather positive. As for the comment that concludes the paragraph above, even in Barrie's Peter Pan adventures there is killing. And, I suppose, it is based on the same rivalry that propels Peter Banning to become a sword-wielder once again: that enmity between Hook and Pan based on the boy having sliced away Hook's hand.

A week later I rejoined the film at an hour and 26 minutes in, and it picked up for a while. Usually I don't find Spielberg's sentimentality to be artificial, but in this film it's all so contrived that I remained irritated by it. The script is too much by the book. Now that I've studied the originals I'm aware of how many lines were picked up and stuffed into Hook as paeans, and they just seem so contrived. Sorry if you're a fan, but it's not near Spielberg's best work, in my opinion. The pictures are nice, but the story is too much rah rah and not enough genuine emotional hooks, if I may say so.

On the same night I finished Hook I also watched the next film in this post.


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Finding Neverland tells a fictionalized story: that of how J.M. Barrie was inspired by a fatherless family, the Sylvia Llewelyn Davies family, to create the character of Peter Pan, based on a boy named Peter in the family. Barrie actually did have a friendly relationship with this family, and identified Peter Llewelyn Davies as the source of the name for the main character. I saw the film when it was new, back in 2004 when it came out, from DVD at the house where I lived at the time. A house with four young sons. It was my job to help raise them for the two-and-a-half years I lived with the family. That situational similarity made it easy to identify with the goings-on in Finding Neverland, and perhaps gave me a more emotional link to the movie than it deserves. Or so I thought until I watched it again.

The film tries to do for Peter Pan what Shakespeare in Love does for the play "Romeo and Juliet." Dramatically it's on the money. Factually, it's way off base. But it is a beautiful piece of cinema. The performances are done just right. It seems to hit as often as it misses, and despite what one reviewer had to say, the second viewing was better for me than the first. The maudlin moments grow out of near-real life situations instead of seeming contrived as those in Hook do. It is very easy to nitpick and decide that certain things could and should have been done differently. I guess that's the prerogative of any reviewer. Frankly, I don't think the film tells us much about the derivation of Peter Pan. It's too superficial for that. Surely there is more that could have been included, but this film is based on a play, and when you buy the film rights for a stage play, I guess you don't toss it all out. The aim of the film is to make it all seem to fit together. I'd just like to see the story with a few more jagged bits left in place. I do love the intercutting of 1. the fantasies Barrie and the boys have while playing, with 2. the actual locations where they are playing. The film is enchanting. But, especially after reading the play and novel, I'd like for it to also have been enlightening.


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In 2011 Sky Movies and SyFy, each broadcast a 2-part mini-series produced for television, entitled Neverland, which has fairly good production values for a television show. The director says in the making-of features that he approached it as if they were making a movie, not a mini-series. The writing and most of the acting is passable. The CGI and the use of it is sometimes imaginative. There are additional characters introduced and killed off, because this is the story of how Peter the petty street criminal became Peter Pan in Neverland. There are some weird adjustments to the traditional story: Neverland is a planet right at the center of the universe (bullshit, where is the center of something that's infinite?) and that's why no one there ever ages (Peter is the only character who doesn't age in the original story).

Part One is better-done than Part Two. So much of the story could have been expanded, but there wasn't time. The writers needed to leave a bit more out in order to properly treat what was kept in. Or maybe that's the director's mistake in the editing process. But I think more was expected. More time to develop characters on a weekly basis, perhaps. Peter is allowed to expound on all the adventures that await in Neverland near the end of the second part. The final line has Tootles asking, "Peter, where is your shadow?" following Peter's return from a brief stay in London. Everything is carefully set up for a TV series, one that hasn't yet happened.
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By attempting to be edgier, two of these three properties lose some of the false innocence that buoyed up Barrie's original story. The darkness that was an undercurrent in his Peter Pan is lifted to the surface, and something doesn't seem quite right about that. Maybe today's audiences are so dumb that they have to have their noses rubbed in something in order for them to sense it. But I don't think so. I believe it's the writers and producers who think they are so much more sophisticated than the audiences are. And it's true that to some extent these vehicles are children's films...and children don't have the experience with which to understand the ironic points that flood Barrie's work. But they probably didn't in 1904, either, and the play was a great hit.

The three derivations provide some entertainment. But it's difficult to take something as a stand-alone story when it depends on a famous tale that came before. Comparisons are inevitable, and since the new versions won't have the freshness of the original, it seems likely that the derivatives won't "measure up to the original" in some way. I wish this weren't true. I wish I could watch Finding Neverland, Neverland and Hook as some kind of originals themselves. But I wasn't able to do so. I wonder if someone who saw the SyFy Neverland first would find the three Peter Pan movies at the core of this Rematch to be lacking. Or would the spark of originality of Barrie's vision still shine through for that viewer?




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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:41 am

I didn't write much about these, especially Neverland, because I'd like to sort of discuss this with people, but I guess I jabber too much and leave nothing for anyone to say? :(
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:37 pm

A Rematch Bonus Essay for
A Comparison of Rear Window (1954) Rear Window (1998) & Disturbia (2007)
and for
A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)

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Peter Pan's Rear Window Analog

(If you don't like sad stories don't read this essay. You might have arrived here from Rear Window/Disturbia or from Peter Pan. You can go back to your source Rematch with buttons at the bottom of the post. If you're ready to read on, proceed.)

Something New to Me Discovered Along the Way
What you're about to read came to my attention while I was researching the Peter Pan Rematch. It has another one of those uncanny links between films that were ostensibly chosen rather randomly (a film similar in theme, and by the same writer as one that is in the Rematches, starring a person who played a role in another of the films in a different Rematch). It has a sad, cautionary tale about the life of someone handed fame and fortune early, but who found no way to work out the loss of these things as an adult (something that would happen again and again, later on in the 20th century). And it has an Academy Award.
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The young actor who voiced Peter Pan in Disney's 1953 film was a Hollywood Wunderkind in the late 1940s. Before Alfred Hitchcock made Rear Window Bobby Driscoll starred in an adaptation of a radically similar story by the same author; the story mixes in a bit of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf." The film is entitled The Window and it involves a young yarn-spinner named Tommy Woodry who, after witnessing a murder, has trouble getting anyone but the murderer to believe him. The Cornell Woolrich short story "The Boy Cried Murder" is the source story for this film. The same story was remade under the original title in 1966, and remade again as Sudden Terror in 1970. Incidentally, I saw Sudden Terror at the drive-in that year. The two remakes were shot on the Mediterranean, but the original movie was shot in New York City.
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The story "It Had to Be Murder," which was Hitchcock's source for Rear Window was first published in 1942. "The Boy Cried Murder" was printed in 1947. About the short story, Thomas C. Renzi writes, "That the reality of Tommy's story is ambiguous, that we can interpret it as an actual experience or a concoction of his own imagination, is not a new device." True. In fact, that device on behalf of Wendy Darling is part of what makes Peter Pan work so well. I'm told by online sources that the two Woolrich short stories are much more similar than the movies made from them turned out to be. I had no idea that this film existed until I was researching the actors in the 1953 Peter Pan movie, but apparently it's well-known and rather well-liked. And there is a reason for both.
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Tommy Woodry is the kind of kid who spins yarns every day, or you could say "he tells lies." That's how his parents look at it. It's a hot summer night and the kid climbs out onto the fire escape where it's a little cooler. He notices a sheet waving in the breeze a floor above, so he climbs up there to sleep. He is awakened in the middle of the night and hears the upstairs neighbors arguing with a man, who is then stabbed to death with a pair of scissors. The youngster witnesses this through a gap between the bottom of the window shade and the window sill. No one in the apartment has seen him. Although he tries to tell the adults around him about the murder, including the local police detectives, none of them believe Tommy until he is dragged upstairs by his mother to apologize for what he's said about the murderous couple. They believe him, although he says not one word (his mother reveals what the boy has said about the neighbors). After that, Tommy is running for his life, but no one will listen to him. He's just a kid. (Makes me think of a line from 8-legged Freaks.) He winds up in danger of his life in more than one way in a crumbling tenement apartment, and he might or might not be rescued before he falls to his death.
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It's Dangerous to be a Pioneer.
This essay is linked to both the Rear Window/Disturbia Rematch and the Peter Pan Rematch because in Driscoll the two Rematches converge. The Driscoll story is also one of the saddest tales of a child actor; one who was not allowed to make a full transition to acting as an adult. He turned the wrong direction in trying to deal with his disappointment and confusion, but who could have told him that at the time, and how was he to know? He was a kid. This boy was amazing as a child actor. In fact, his performance in The Window and another film released in 1948 spurred the Motion Picture Academy to present him with their Juvenile Oscar for his work. I didn't tell you how The Window ends, but I'll tell you how the Driscoll story turns out.

Peter Pan was the last job the youngster did for Disney. It's reported that his acne was becoming a problem, and his voice was changing; he didn't look as good as he once did, so Disney released him two years early from his second 7-year contract with the studio. Bobby Driscoll was the first human actor to be contracted to Walt Disney, and the first to be fired by him before his contract was done. For whatever reasons, Driscoll fell into heroin addiction and after involuntary confinement and rehabilitation he was unable to get work in Hollywood, because he had become a drug user.
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But when he was nine years old he played Tommy Woodry with a style that seems much less automatic and coached than it does heartfelt and accurate. After his conviction he was unable to even get bit parts on television. His screen career ended abruptly. But he went to New York City in order to try to make a new name for himself on the stage. He got mostly the same results. One role in a Warhol 8mm short film released in 1965. Then, nothing. Eventually, he must have given up. Just after he turned 31 years old, it all came to an abrupt end about two miles from where he had starred in The Window twenty years before. Did it end because of drugs? Well, it didn't end from drugs. And at the time no one knew who the dead man was. There's a blog about his career and death that includes more information than I have space for here. This is one of many, actually. And the Driscoll story was repeated in an article when Song of the South was re-released in 1972. Memecrunch.com had some disrespectful fun with Driscoll's story. That faux poster isn't altogether a lie, but it's rather superficial. And insensitive to the fact that he left behind two sons and a daughter.

There's no way to know how any life will turn out. It's easy to say a lot of things after the fact. No one knows why I wound up where I did, or why you'll wind up where you do. But people will have theories about it. Walt Disney was making what he thought was a sound business decision when he fired Driscoll. But the youngster was a teenager, and teenagers see things differently from business magnates. Driscoll had enough money to dull his sorrows with illegal substances. We respond to disappointment in different ways, just as characters in plays do, because they are in large part based on observations of human nature. Tommy Woodry's parents don't believe him when he says he saw a murder, possibly less because he is a compulsive yarn-spinner than because he's a kid. What kid witnesses a murder? If Driscoll had managed to have a memory as faulty as Peter Pan's, perhaps he'd have been able to forget that he was once carried on a silver platter and dumped in the trash can, as he put it. Ultimately, if he hadn't turned to drugs at a time when so many other kids were doing the same thing in America, he could have retained his squeaky-clean rep and been a TV star. Unfortunately, he was part of an industry that thrives on publicity and spectacle, and he inadvertently gave his life over to that...simply becoming more entertainment for those of us out here in the cheap seats looking across the courtyard through a window. Is that all this man's life was worth? Pass the freakin' popcorn.




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I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:51 pm

This is the initial post for The Rematch between Scarface (1932) and Scarface (1983)
This Quickmatch is complete as of 16 February 2013.
Selected by dreiser
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Essays for the Scarface Quickmatch
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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:21 pm

The Scarface Quickmatch will be a bear!

Scarface Film reviews
1932 scheduled 26 Jan 2013
1983 scheduled 01 Feb 2013

Scarface technical posts
Find it - sched. 19 Jan 2013
Script - sched. 21 Jan 2013
Director - sched. 20 Jan 2013
DP - sched. 24 Jan 2013
Editor - sched. 27 Jan 2013
Production - sched. 23 Jan 2013
Web Links - sched. 30 Jan 2013
Quotes - sched. 29 Jan 2013

Scarface Essays
ESSAY # 1 - sched 22 Jan 2013 - Violence
ESSAY # 2 - sched 25 Jan 2013 - Political
ESSAY # 3 - sched 28 Jan 2013 - Cast to Cast
ESSAY # 4 - sched 19 Jan 2013 - Guest (dreiser)

The only one that's finished is the text for dreiser's post!

Wish me well, please. I'll have to be less verbally voluminous in order to make this. :shifty:
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Gort » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:22 pm

Don't forget the final two Peter Pan Multimatch posts! :twisted:
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Shieldmaiden » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:24 pm

YouTookMyName wrote:Peter Pan's Rear Window Analog
Huh, interesting! I'd never heard of The Window. That was a fun read!
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:02 pm

Shieldmaiden wrote:Huh, interesting! I'd never heard of The Window. That was a fun read!
Thanks.

Those kinds of coincidences have been happening ever since I restarted the thread and paid more attention to the crew. But this is the first time the link has been due to themes.

Should I have posted links to where people can get The Window? I figured everyone knows how to Google and Bing. :D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:04 am

YouTookMyName wrote:The Scarface Quickmatch will be a bear!

ESSAY # 4 - sched 19 Jan 2013 - Guest (dreiser)

The only one that's finished is the text for dreiser's post!
I'm really looking forward to this matchup, Gort.

Sad about Bobby Driscoll. Unfortunately, happens way too often to child actors like him and Dana Plato.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:44 pm

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A Comparison of Scarface (1932) & Scarface (1983)
Where Can I Find These Movies?

Although the Quickmatch doesn't begin for another 6 days, I thought some of you might like to get the films and watch them. Don't forget your local library as a source for DVDs and books. Some of you use torrent trackers. I have no way to check into those, but I'm sure you can find both movies available. And, although it isn't on the list below, even Walmart has these movies on its VuDu online service.


Armitage Trail Scarface the Novel
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The novel on which the two films are loosely based (actually written by Maurice Coons) is available in paperback from Amazon. You might find used copies at ABE Books. There is also availability at Barnes & Noble. Apparently there are no ebooks available at this time.



1932 Howard Hawks production of Scarface
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From Amazon DVD only. From Amazon DVD + digital copy.
From Critic's Choice Video DVD only. From DeepDiscount.com DVD only.

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The Howard Hawks Scarface hasn't been released on Blu-ray yet.

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Netflix has the DVD and streaming options for the 1932 film. If you have Netflix, add the movie to your queue here.

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Don't want to buy it? Amazon offers this movie for rental on its Instant Video feature.

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The full 1932 film is available from iTunes.


Music from Scarface 1932
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The soundtrack from this film is not available on CD, or in any other format that I could find. You'll have to watch the movie to hear it.



1983 Brian De Palma production of Scarface
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From DeepDiscount.com 2-disc DVD set. From CD Universe Anniversary edition. From FamilyVideo.com Anniversary edition.
From Amazon Anniversary edition.

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From Amazon with Blu and DVD. From Walmart with Blu and DVD.
From Target Blu only. From DeepDiscount.com Blu only.
In addition, Walmart.com has an interesting "Limited Edition" that has the 1983 Blu-ray with the 1932 DVD.

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Netflix has the DVD and Blu-ray discs available. If you have Netflix, add the movie to your queue here.

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Don't want to buy it? Amazon offers this movie for rental on its Instant Video feature.

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This film is available from iTunes.

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There are so many clips I decided to put a link to the Google/YouTube search page.
Universal has actually uploaded a copy to YouTube that you can rent! "From $2.99" it says. And the trailer is there to watch.

Music from Scarface 1983
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From Amazon. From CD Universe. From DeepDiscount.com.

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Available from iTunes.

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The tracks from the 1983 film are available as mp3 downloads not from reputable sources. Here are the Google search results.



Do You Like Movie Posters?
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1932 film posters
From AllPosters.com. From Movie Poster Data Base.

1983 film posters
From AllPosters.com. From PosterRevolution.
From MoviePoster.com. From Movie Poster Data Base.



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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:36 am

A Comparison of Peter Pan (1924), Walt Disney's Peter Pan (1953) & Peter Pan (2003)

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Peter Pan Versions from 1904 Stage to 2011 Soundstage

There have been a number of screen adaptations of the J.M. Barrie Play "Peter Pan or the Boy Who Wouldn't Grow Up." These range from Herbert Brenon's silent film, to television productions of Broadway musicals based on Barrie's works. If you throw in derivatives, there are even more. Surely Dracula has been in many more films and TV shows than Peter Pan, but there may potentially be a contest between them. And perhaps they both scare us! They also share some attributes: both were devised near the change of centuries at the year 1900, and about the same distance from that transitional date. Neither of them ages. Both are attractive to women (or at least females). They both hang out in a place that is outside of time. Both travel from their home into London, England. Both are attracted to young women there. Neither causes permanent harm to his central "victim." We'd have to see Peter as more benign than the Count. Yet, they both kill in the course of the story.

Recently, I stumbled across a historical fact that changed my understanding of English Pantomime. I learned in the 20 Dec 2012 issue of The New York Review of Books that there was a shift in who was allowed onstage between the early 1600s and 1660. For the first time in the reign of Charles II, actresses were allowed onstage to play the female parts that had previously been played by young boys wearing women's clothes. Writer Charles Rosen points out: "Now some male parts were often played by women and the practice was very popular (one could appreciate female anatomy better in male attire than in the ladies' robes then current)." I thought this information, news to me, was an interesting turnabout! Perhaps this is the source of cross-gender roles in Pantomime such as The Principal Boy (always performed by an actress). Although Barrie didn't intend his play to be a Pantomime, it was first produced near Christmas time, and it was the tradition to do Pantomime at Christmas time. I think I covered enough of that in the essay "Mary Martin Isn't Peter Pan!" so I won't belabor it further.

For the stage some practices have remained largely the same, perhaps due to tradition, or perhaps due to the technical difficulties of manipulating things like internally illuminated miniature fairies on the stage. Flying is no doubt more spectacular in the Cathy Rigby revival than it was in 1904...if they even did flying on stage for that production. But even if flying was once done with visible ropes, rather than nearly invisible wires, it's the make-believe aspect of the story that demands flying be done. And the stage presentation of Tinker Bell has gone from a spot of light shone by a concave reflector onto the flats of the stage set, to a laser-based squiggle that does basically the same thing in the Rigby revival of the Jerome Robbins 1954 musical adaptation of the play. Of course, the movies, even in 1924, used actresses to play Tinker Bell, at least in closeups.
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I've now seen more versions of Barrie's tale than most people probably have. Yet there are derivatives of the story that I have never seen, and may never see. Here's a chronology of screen versions and derivative stories, and I've noted which ones I haven't seen, if you're curious.

Live Action:
The Herbert Brenon film of 1924: Even though Barrie himself wrote a treatment for the 1924 film, Herbert Brenan decided to merely adapt the stage play with dialog appearing on inter-titles. Anyone with moderate lip-reading skills can tell that the actors are saying the lines from the play. So, the first film of the Barrie story is more or less the 1904 stage play adapted directly to silent film. And I didn't see it until a DVD dropped into my mailbox in 2012.

The Mary Martin live telecasts of 1954 and 1955: I didn't see these. We didn't have a television until late 1955. I assume they were very similar to the 1960 version.

The Mary Martin live telecast of 1960: This was in color, and was preserved on videotape for future rebroadcast. Of course, by the time we had a color television set I was too old to care a thing about Peter Pan. As much as I questioned the casting of the title role, I still liked the story. It was great to imagine being able to fly at will. Even though the 1953 film existed, I was not aware of it until I was in 6th grade. I don't recall ever playing at being Peter Pan, though. I never saw this 1960 version in color until I looked it up on YouTube. The color made it easier to look at, but I still dislike the songs and the über-foppish Captain Hook.
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The Mia Farrow telecast of 1976: This is from a new musical adaptation with songs by Anthony Newley and Leslie Bricusse. No one remembers the songs now. Because Mia Farrow was interesting to me, I watched part of it in 1976, but didn't like the songs, so I changed channels and watched something else. I didn't see the entire thing until I found a YouTube upload of a damaged VHS tape. Well, I've seen it once, and that's quite enough, I think.

The Cathy Rigby is Peter Pan A&E version from 2000: Of course, I didn't watch this until I saw the DVD for this Rematch. It is a greatly improved production of the Jerome Robbins script. I think they moved the placement of some songs, maybe added some. I'm not sure, and I'm not going to watch the '60 and this side-by-side to find out, because I'm not that concerned about it. The production values are terrific (I assume this is the touring company set and cast). Rigby handles the flying effects better than anyone else I've seen in a stage show.
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The P.J. Hogan movie of 2003: This was my first Pan viewing at a theater. But it was a discount theater ($3.00 bought small popcorn and drink, and ticket to the film for showings with start times between 5:00 and 6:00 pm). And I swear they cut the projector light output to save money during these showings. But the film was still imbued with some kind of magic that I hadn't seen brought to the story before. Remember that at that time I thought only of the Mary Martin and Disney versions of the show. I had no idea Brenon's work or the Cathy Rigby TV show existed, and I'd forgotten the Mia Farrow outing that I had caught part of in 1976.

The indie contemporary resetting from 2003 called Neverland: This is in my Netflix queue, but it's now marked "Unavailable," (it used to be marked "Very Long Wait") which means I don't have it in hand for this Rematch because I didn't order it from some online company. It was to have been briefly reviewed in the 7th essay. Oh, well.
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Animated:
Disney's Peter Pan of 1953: As I pointed out in the review, my first full viewing of this film was in 1962 or 1963 in 6th grade. I have never seen it theatrically, or even on Blu-ray. Only from 16mm, VHS and DVD. But I've also never seen it in black and white! It retains a little bit of the enchantment that it had for me as an 11 year-old. The very next year I went to what was called Jr. High School, and the world became much less friendly. Perhaps my classroom viewing of Peter Pan was the last gasp of not growing up for my life.

Live-action Derivatives:
The Lost Boys from 1978: a docudrama series that dramatically covers a long span in the lives of Barrie and the Davies kids. Perhaps this TV series is what I wanted to see when I watched Finding Neverland.
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The Steven Spielberg movie Hook in 1991: I saw this film when it became available on VHS. I was in the middle of a divorce at the time, and it seemed like a diversion to watch with my small sons. They liked Rufio. I saw it the second time from a Blu-ray disc, and that viewing was interrupted by a 5-day power outage due to local snowfall. By the way, I can relate very easily to Peter's happy thought in this film.

The Johnny Depp vehicle from 2004, Finding Neverland: Both my viewings have been potentially from the same Netflix DVD, although that seems unlikely, because they were 8 years apart. When it came out I watched it with friends at their house from a Netflix disc. For this Rematch I ordered it from Netflix, and saw it in 2013. I like it, but I have problems with it at the same time. It's a clumsy film that is saved by the acting and special effects, for me.
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There is another TV mini-series released in 2011 entitled Neverland. I didn't write much about it in the Alternate Films essay. It is not completely fulfilling somehow, but it isn't exactly bad, either; It's just that the production tries to fit too much into the 4-hour runtime. As I wrote in another essay, I think they were hoping for a regular TV series to come from this, so they introduced a large number of characters and plot points...too many for the screen time they had. It seems rushed rather than fast-paced. Whereas it has an abundance of plot points and characters it seems to somehow lack ideas, although it has ideas...if that makes sense. Some of the ideas are goofy, some are really cool, but the overall idea: that Peter was a real boy living in London before he was whisked away to Never Land in order to become the Pan, is not bad. I'd say watch it if you get the chance and have little else to do, or if you're interested in the kinds of modern reformulations of classic tales that Sky-TV and SyFy have been into recently.

Animated Derivatives:
Scads of animated TV series episodes, and some direct-to-DVD movies that I've never seen. I would like for someone who has seen these to comment on them, if I can get it: The Adventures of Peter Pan, a 1989 animé series in 14 parts that retraces most of the original story, then diverges about halfway through, or so I'm told.
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Peter Pan and the Pirates from 1990-1991 is an American animated show based on the original Barrie characters, that expands the role of many of the pirates.

Jake and the Neverland Pirates which began in 2011 and is still running. I think it's on a channel called Disney Junior.
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Return to Neverland from 2002 about which I know nothing. Well, I know that Wendy's daughter Jane is the girl in this movie, but I haven't see it.

The Disney Tinker Bell film series, in which I have little interest: Tinker Bell (2008), The Lost Treasure (2009), The Great Fairy Rescue (2010), Pixie Hollow Games (2011), Secret of the Wings (2012), Quest for the Queen (announced for 2014). These are allegedly prequels to the 1953 Disney film.
Undoubtedly there are other items internationally that haven't been added to the Wikipedia Peter Pan page.

I'm sure Bram Stoker had no idea in 1895 that his Dracula character would become so self-perpetuating. He probably could not have envisioned Murnau's Nosferatu or the roughly 199 other Dracula movies that have been made. That's nearly a two-a-year average rate!

James Barrie probably had no idea in 1904 that Peter Pan would also develop a life outside his works. The character of Dracula hangs around after more than a century, having spawned all kinds of vampires. (In truth, Peter Pan has spawned vampires, too.) So there must be something adhesive between Dracula and human imagination, human fear.
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At the same time, it is amazing to me how sticky the character of Peter Pan is to the human imagination. Writers and graphic artists seem to love him and his world and thrive on imagining different and related versions; readers and viewers seem to love their fantasy outpourings equally well. The story is mythical about 1.12 centuries after it first went onstage at The Duke of York's Theatre in London, England. It has become a cultural legend. Although the copyright for the play remains with the Great Ormond Street Hospital as a funding source, the ideas belong to everyone by this time.





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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:54 am

The Peter Pan Rematch is closed. I had one other essay scheduled but I found that I really don't want to bother comparing the casts. The idea bores me more or less, so like I did with 3:10 to Yuma, I'm abandoning the idea. :D

The Scarface Quickmatch will commence about 19 Jan 2013, but I'm overwhelmed with work at my part time jobs and I might need to take a break.

It's supposed to be a hobby.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:42 pm

Please see the changes to schedules for Scarface and Invasion of the Bodysnatchers.

Have to take a break from regular development and posting so I can get caught up at work without feeling like I'm neglecting this. Oddly, I would be neglecting it anyway. So, why the change to the schedule?

Official neglect is apparently different from casual neglect. :shifty:
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:07 am

For anyone who cares:

I thought work would be back to normal by this time. Actually what happened is that a big pile of shit hit the fan.

This will undoubtedly lead to additional delay before I can commence with Scarface, and this time I'm not bothering to make any predictions.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:53 pm

Eventually I'll have to go back to work as well, but I don't miss the headaches for sure.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:11 am

Hopefully that fan was not a ceiling fan.

One time I was doing an art project in college where you had to have a machine do your art for you. I attached a large bundle of Sharpies to a string and dangled the string from a ceiling fan. I put a large sheet of paper on a drawing board on top of a ladder... the markers then were drug around the page by the fan. It worked fairly well. Then I decided to switch paper, I took the drawing board down.

What I found out is that when Sharpies are allowed to swing around... the ink will fling from the tip and splatter around an entire living room. Wives do not find this amusing.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:21 am

Love that fan story, Hank! Especially your closing line. ;)

I've managed to find time to rewatch the 1932 Scarface. I guess that's good in terms of moving along with the thread. I grabbed stills from it on December 20, 2012. I also have stills from the De Palma, but it takes nearly 3 hours to watch. Might have to do it in shifts. I streamed the Hawks, but I have a library DVD for the other.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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