Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

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B-Side
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by B-Side » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:20 am

My upload speed is wonderful, but I deleted it to make room for other stuff, so you'll have to rely on Jedi and whomever else might be seeding it.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by rad » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:22 am

its on my seedbox you should get great speeds
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by JediMoonShyne » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:26 am

Sorry, yeah, I'm seeding it now but my speed is awful.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Trip » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:37 pm

I grabbed it from Pirate Bay, went real fast.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:30 pm

B-Side wrote:A fragmented amalgamation of Fassbinder, De Palma, Argento and Resnais. Or at least those names kept springing to mind when I was watching it.
Hmm. For me it was more Zulawski and Syberberg.

I loved the images, loved the sound, loved the frantic pace, loved Isabelle Huppert—yet I still found it kind of hard to watch, because the main character is unrelentingly unlikeable. Which in itself is interesting, I admit, since the novel is so clearly autobiographical. Her dreams of childhood anxieties are fascinating and the closest I came to understanding, but, I think it’s the fact that her problems are distorted through the prism of her addiction that makes her so unsympathetic. Also, isn’t it completely strange that a feminist would imagine a male alter-ego to represent her rational side?

Anyway, it's Saturday, and no one's posted and I hope her unpleasant insanity didn't defeat anyone. The images alone are totally worth sticking it out.

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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:33 pm

Also, does anyone have any ideas about the boy in the ice?

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I found this:
According to Inuit mythology, Malina and her brother Anningan or Aningaaq lived together in a village. They were very close when young, but came to live apart as they grew older, in the lodges for women and for men. Malina was asleep and one night, someone raped her. She had no idea who it was. The next night, exactly the same thing happened again. Determined, Malina waited for the same person the next night. When he came to attack her, she turned on the fire torch and smudged ashes in the man's eyes. She was surprised to find that it was her brother, he then chased her to apologize. He could tell where she went by the blood left. She ran so far away that she became the sun. Her brother chased after her and became the moon they are still chasing each other today.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by wigwam » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:30 pm

Firstly, it's a beautifully rendered and darkly hilarious piece of arthouse extraordinaire. I felt affinities with Zulawski (the insane energy to most most scenes, and the dollying in the apartment), late-70s Fassbinder (having his editor helps!) and Bunuel (more inspirational than influential?). My favorite parts were the movie theater reverie and the tableaux orgy (so funny when the little girl gets killed again!!!).

I think there's some very obvious Jungian concepts on display, but her rockstar professor lecture's touching on Wittgenstein and linguistics and dualities also made me think of Derridian deconstruction and his concept of "differance" especially its sub-concept of invagination (the envelopes at first, but as the film plays out and the Jungian anima/animus becomes more pronounced it's obvious her inner life has gone completely exterior for her, and vice versa).

I think the movie theater scene showing that mirror of the image of the screen is a key to interpreting how to read the film linearly (if you're so inclined), in that
This movie is a reversal: she is Malina, an anima for him to reconcile, subsume or invaginate, or annihilate and live incompletely.
or maybe not? That's just where my mind went.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by wigwam » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:53 pm

yay Maiden we both caught some Zulawski in it! and great call on Syberberg, the ice capades play was very reminiscent of what I've seen of his

that's a great quotation w/ Inuit mythology, love the fire part :lol:

did the fire remind anyone else of Synechady NY?

BSide, I didnt consider Germany at all thinking of it just as a Viennese/Austrian setting, that's interesting and the timing of the film's production aligns with the fall of the wall, hmmm...
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:41 pm

Oh, Jung. I had to look that up, and, duh. I feel stupid now. :P
wigwam wrote:I think the movie theater scene showing that mirror of the image of the screen is a key to interpreting how to read the film linearly (if you're so inclined), in that
This movie is a reversal: she is Malina, an anima for him to reconcile, subsume or invaginate, or annihilate and live incompletely.
So it's inside out, and she's his anima? I love that it actually makes more sense that way! Oh! And if the Inuit tale has anything to do with it, the names are reversed there, too. Another clue? But, considering that the novelist was a pill-popping Wittgenstein enthusiast who killed herself by smoking in bed, it doesn't seem likely that was her intent, does it?
And, speaking of German history, what was up with Malina's museum of weaponry, or whatever that was?
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by snapper » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:08 pm

dunno if I'll be able to make this in time, have to study today and already need to finish another movie. but will get to it soon
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Das » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:20 pm

It definitely has touches of Zulawski, that opening scene is such a sharp, sudden one - sharp is a good word to describe the film as a whole I think - there's so many elements designed to snap you to attention - you certainly can't view this passively, it won't let you. It'll constantly pull a question towards the audience, the sound design is actually really interesting in it - how clear and well, sharp a lot of it is, when it transitions to a scene, your attention is almost immediately pulled to the film's focus through its sound, the music just kept me on edge the entire time. I can't really speak on what it means yet - still working that through in my head. But the film's interesting, and has a wonderfully pitch black sense of humor to it. Liked this one a lot.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:35 pm

Das wrote:But the film's interesting, and has a wonderfully pitch black sense of humor to it. Liked this one a lot.
Ha, yes. That house she went to for the weekend! Did you see the cat on the wall?

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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Das » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:46 pm

Haha, yeah I did. The film has a lot of weird background details in it like that.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Bandy Greensacks » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:30 am

This certainly wasn't uninteresting, but I'd be lying if I said any of it particularly appealed to me. It feels, at times, like the images and dialogue don't inform one another, and that actors are merely mouthpieces for the novel's prose.

Pretty, though
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by B-Side » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:09 am

I didn't even know it was based on a novel. Not sure it's that important anyway. We should be addressing Schroeter's fiction. I'll come back to wiggy's Jungian analysis, since that interests me a lot.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Bandy Greensacks » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:14 am

The looseness of the structure kind of bothered me, but, from reading others' posts, it seems I'm alone there. I like Schroeter's style -- the roaming camera, the at times unusual framing (this shot is magnificent), the colors, all that -- so I'm not entirely sure why it all kind of floated by for me. I'd be interested in hearing more analysis.

And this was a good pick, Maiden. Plenty of participants and some interesting discussion.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by B-Side » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:44 am

wigwam wrote:Derridian deconstruction
This is interesting. When you speak of deconstruction, are you speaking of a broader sense of immaterial foundation and a lack of binary separation?
and his concept of "differance" especially its sub-concept of invagination (the envelopes at first, but as the film plays out and the Jungian anima/animus becomes more pronounced it's obvious her inner life has gone completely exterior for her, and vice versa).
The envelopes underscore the absence of a linguistic label. Very nice. I think you've hit the nail on the head with the Anima/Animus angle, but I think it's more than a visualization of this. Like I alluded to before, I think it's more about projection than externalized internal norms. And this, too, I think speaks to the East/West Germany divide, but in a less obvious manner. There doesn't seem to be a direct correlation between Malina/The Woman and either side of the national divide, but there is the scene in which a man (the abusive guy from the beginning?) is exposed as a Nazi. East Germany was the Soviet Union's experiment, and as the Cold War escalated, the ruling Communists saw fit to further establish an East German identity so as to stave off potential unification. West Germany was backed by the democratic West, and the democratic institutions fostered political apathy while the East was emboldened by poorer living conditions and began developing an envy of the West. I can see this forced establishment of an externally espoused identity, the bifurcation and the envy in The Woman's narrative.
I think the movie theater scene showing that mirror of the image of the screen is a key to interpreting how to read the film linearly (if you're so inclined), in that
This movie is a reversal: she is Malina, an anima for him to reconcile, subsume or invaginate, or annihilate and live incompletely.
or maybe not? That's just where my mind went.
I'm unsure if the roles are reversed like you say, but I'll think on it.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by wigwam » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:00 am

Yeah that character is her father and his Naziism definitely points to Austria's now-problematic relation to Germany

My understanding of deconstruction is that it wouldn't make a foundation immaterial entirely, but suspect/un-solid and fractured by multiple (including contradictory) meanings/external references but yes a lack of binary separation in favor of an unstable/changeable singularity that can easily appear either binary and/or exponentially multiple.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by B-Side » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:12 am

wigwam wrote:Yeah that character is her father and his Naziism definitely points to Austria's now-problematic relation to Germany
I was unsure if he was meant to be an ex-husband or a father, but seeing him as the father, and thus the progenitor of a horrible, fractured, inherited identity definitely makes sense.
My understanding of deconstruction is that it wouldn't make a foundation immaterial entirely, but suspect/un-solid and fractured by multiple (including contradictory) meanings/external references but yes a lack of binary separation in favor of an unstable/changeable singularity that can easily appear either binary and/or exponentially multiple.
OK, yeah, I get you.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:36 pm

Bandy Greensacks wrote:The looseness of the structure kind of bothered me, but, from reading others' posts, it seems I'm alone there. I like Schroeter's style -- the roaming camera, the at times unusual framing (this shot is magnificent), the colors, all that -- so I'm not entirely sure why it all kind of floated by for me. I'd be interested in hearing more analysis.
From my (admittedly unsophisticated) point of view it didn't feel loose. The images and words repeated and built on each other like a musical theme and variations. Maybe they didn't add up to anything more than danger and guilt and crushing anxiety, but it was a powerful experience for me.
And this was a good pick, Maiden. Plenty of participants and some interesting discussion.
It's tricky, picking blind. But, yeah, I really enjoyed this one. :)
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:09 pm

Two shots I really love. The one on the left, because it looks like a simple one-mirror shot, but as she pulls away from the mirror it's completely disorienting, like a magician letting you think you know what's going on, then destroying the illusion. And then, the one on the right, because, look at it!

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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:42 am

Didn't anyone else watch? Rad? Jedi?

Huppert's not setting any records after all. :P
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by B-Side » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:45 am

I wish wiggy would expound on his Derridian and Jungian analysis. Maiden, you didn't even mention Derrida. How can you even call yourself a cinephile.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:13 pm

B-Side wrote:I wish wiggy would expound on his Derridian and Jungian analysis.
Same here.
Maiden, you didn't even mention Derrida. How can you even call yourself a cinephile.
Haha. It's worse than that, even. I've also called myself an English major. :(
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by wigwam » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:40 pm

i thot i already said the connections i made? what else can i say?

i started reading Heidegger Saturday and he uses the term "anima" for "soul" so maybe it's not Jungian anyway and these pretentious namedrops are a dead end!!!!
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:14 pm

wigwam wrote:i thot i already said the connections i made? what else can i say?
I don't know. Smart stuff. :)

The more I think about your mirror/inverse idea, by the way, the more I like it.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by B-Side » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:30 pm

Shieldmaiden wrote:Haha. It's worse than that, even. I've also called myself an English major. :(
Terrible. :P
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Colonel Kurz » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:36 pm

wigwam wrote:i started reading Heidegger Saturday and he uses the term "anima" for "soul"
Isn't that just Latin?
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by wigwam » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:37 pm

i dunno, i never took latin
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:43 pm

anima = life, soul
animus = heart, mind
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Bandy Greensacks » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:50 pm

This deep analysis is nice and all, but we're not asking the most important questions of them all: where were the likeable characters and the guy-meets-girl-falls-in-love-loses-girl-to-rival-wins-back-girl-gains-rival's-respect-and-lives-happily-ever-after plot line?
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by wigwam » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:27 pm

when she is my face, when she's a building on fire
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:21 pm

OK, I hope others are still going to watch, but I need to figure out who's doing the next one. Looks like wigwam and B-Side are the two who haven't hosted yet. So, I'll flip a coin to pick? Not going to do a video...
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by wigwam » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:33 pm

i'm scared to do it, please let BSide do it!
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:58 pm

wigwam wrote:i'm scared to do it, please let BSide do it!
I'm assuming this is a primitive attempt at reverse psychology. Fortunately, I'm completely incorruptible and immune to influence.

Also, unlike Notes, I'm old-fashioned, and will perform an actual, in-real-life coin toss, in which I have arbitrarily assigned B-Side heads and wigwam tails. Just a sec...

The winner is B-Side! Better luck next time, wig.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by JediMoonShyne » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:26 pm

Will finish watching this and join in later tonight!
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by wigwam » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:44 pm

it wasn't reverse psychology, i worry abt tainting the beloved stature i've been entrusted with at corrie, falling in my fellow posters' esteem

i've painted myself into a corner of this gilded cage atop this ivory tower in this city on the hill alive with the sound of music
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by snapper » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:33 pm

should this one be between wig and Bry?
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** The Seashell and the Clergyman / Dulac
The Tales of Beatrix Potter / Mills
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Times and Winds / Erdem
Most Beautiful Island / Asensio
* Japanese Girls Never Die / Matsui
* Birth Certificate / Różewicz
Bush Mama / Gerima
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:43 pm

Is this the first time anyone's had me on ignore? :(
wigwam wrote:i worry abt tainting the beloved stature i've been entrusted with at corrie, falling in my fellow posters' esteem
:heart:
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Bandy Greensacks » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:45 pm

I think both of them should do one at the same time, in the same thread
Shieldmaiden wrote:Is this the first time anyone's had me on ignore? :(
I think Snapper has just narrowed his focus so much that women are now invisible to him.
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by snapper » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:47 pm

Shieldmaiden wrote:Is this the first time anyone's had me on ignore? :(
what? i haven't looked at the discussion parts too closely as I haven't seen the film yet
Latest notable first-time viewings:

* The Sun in a Net / Uher
** The Seashell and the Clergyman / Dulac
The Tales of Beatrix Potter / Mills
* A Flood in Ba'ath Country / Amiralay
Times and Winds / Erdem
Most Beautiful Island / Asensio
* Japanese Girls Never Die / Matsui
* Birth Certificate / Różewicz
Bush Mama / Gerima
** Paris Is Burning / Livingston


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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by snapper » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:48 pm

ok nvm. bro-side bringing us a 60 minute azerbaijani experiment in mysticism without subtitles next week
Latest notable first-time viewings:

* The Sun in a Net / Uher
** The Seashell and the Clergyman / Dulac
The Tales of Beatrix Potter / Mills
* A Flood in Ba'ath Country / Amiralay
Times and Winds / Erdem
Most Beautiful Island / Asensio
* Japanese Girls Never Die / Matsui
* Birth Certificate / Różewicz
Bush Mama / Gerima
** Paris Is Burning / Livingston


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Shieldmaiden
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by Shieldmaiden » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:44 pm

snapper wrote:ok nvm. bro-side bringing us a 60 minute azerbaijani experiment in mysticism without subtitles next week
Ha, yes! I'm counting on it.
Bandy Greensacks wrote:I think Snapper has just narrowed his focus so much that women are now invisible to him.
Hahaha! Like I'm visible to anyone on the internet. :P
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B-Side
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by B-Side » Wed May 01, 2013 5:13 am

snapper wrote:ok nvm. bro-side bringing us a 60 minute azerbaijani experiment in mysticism without subtitles next week
haha yessss

Should I pick one right away? If I choose tonight, won't that only give people about 3 days to watch, or do we adjust the time table accordingly?
no longer on hiatus from movies(!)

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snapper
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by snapper » Wed May 01, 2013 5:27 am

you reveal the pick this saturday and that gives people a week to watch it (we discuss the following saturday)
Latest notable first-time viewings:

* The Sun in a Net / Uher
** The Seashell and the Clergyman / Dulac
The Tales of Beatrix Potter / Mills
* A Flood in Ba'ath Country / Amiralay
Times and Winds / Erdem
Most Beautiful Island / Asensio
* Japanese Girls Never Die / Matsui
* Birth Certificate / Różewicz
Bush Mama / Gerima
** Paris Is Burning / Livingston


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B-Side
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by B-Side » Wed May 01, 2013 5:31 am

snapper wrote:you reveal the pick this saturday and that gives people a week to watch it (we discuss the following saturday)
ah, right, i'll get searching, then
no longer on hiatus from movies(!)

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B-Side
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by B-Side » Wed May 01, 2013 7:22 am

I wanna make sure I pick a film that Maiden will be able to get. Is she willing to download from one of us, or does it need to be available DVD in the US?
no longer on hiatus from movies(!)

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snapper
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by snapper » Wed May 01, 2013 7:25 am

dropboxing has been pretty standard in some of the past trips
Latest notable first-time viewings:

* The Sun in a Net / Uher
** The Seashell and the Clergyman / Dulac
The Tales of Beatrix Potter / Mills
* A Flood in Ba'ath Country / Amiralay
Times and Winds / Erdem
Most Beautiful Island / Asensio
* Japanese Girls Never Die / Matsui
* Birth Certificate / Różewicz
Bush Mama / Gerima
** Paris Is Burning / Livingston


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snapper
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by snapper » Wed May 01, 2013 7:26 am

remember, something neither you have seen nor that (you think) many other people here will have seen, either
Latest notable first-time viewings:

* The Sun in a Net / Uher
** The Seashell and the Clergyman / Dulac
The Tales of Beatrix Potter / Mills
* A Flood in Ba'ath Country / Amiralay
Times and Winds / Erdem
Most Beautiful Island / Asensio
* Japanese Girls Never Die / Matsui
* Birth Certificate / Różewicz
Bush Mama / Gerima
** Paris Is Burning / Livingston


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snapper
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Re: Class Trip #8: Malina (1991, Schroeter)

Post by snapper » Wed May 01, 2013 7:27 am

I wouldnt mind something Azerbaijani to be honest, if you can find one... i have an Azeri friend and when I asked him about the national cinema he wasnt able to cite anything he thought I'd like
Latest notable first-time viewings:

* The Sun in a Net / Uher
** The Seashell and the Clergyman / Dulac
The Tales of Beatrix Potter / Mills
* A Flood in Ba'ath Country / Amiralay
Times and Winds / Erdem
Most Beautiful Island / Asensio
* Japanese Girls Never Die / Matsui
* Birth Certificate / Różewicz
Bush Mama / Gerima
** Paris Is Burning / Livingston


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