It’s me, HipsterThor

Discuss anything you want.
ThatDarnMKS
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri May 31, 2019 3:31 am

Hipster Thor wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 2:52 am
That’s neither an inaccurate take or even really a bad thing, imo.
It was a tad disappointing to see very Western sensibilities in dumb plotting but the fan service was in full force and really tickled me at times.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Hipster Thor » Fri May 31, 2019 4:14 am

I did a thing today that ended up being an interesting experiment. I did a rabbit stream for other online friends where I screened four Heisei Era Godzilla films. In those movies there are literally scenes of monsters firing energy beams and clashing into one another and screaming for upwards to ten minutes at a time. All of this is broken up by quick cuts to the human characters reacting but contributing absolutely nothing. The flow of the battle moves at a glacial pace and no action has consequence to raise stakes or advance the story. The fights happen in excess until they don’t. Putting myself in the shoes of someone who hasn’t seen any of these films before that watching them back to back might be exhausting and the Godzilla rampage scenes completely interchangeable. In the classic Showa films the structure was humans fight other humans and monsters solve the big problem, which itself has narrative balance issues. In the Shinsei/Reiwa Era films, Godzilla movies in Japan started adopting Western sensibilities and structured plots the directly involve humans into the monster action. Also to mixed results.

I don’t know which approach is better if I’m honest. I struggle to think offhand how the core human plot in this film could have been improved. Maybe less expository scenes? Idk.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri May 31, 2019 4:21 am

Consider me a strong Heisei era fan.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Hipster Thor » Fri May 31, 2019 5:07 am

This is super strange, but I ran into Randy when talking about this film on Reddit. Yes, *that* Randy.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Hipster Thor » Fri May 31, 2019 5:21 am

Look, I found MKS too.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri May 31, 2019 12:29 pm

Hipster Thor wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 5:21 am
Look, I found MKS too.
I run into DaMU constantly on there and I think I’ve seen you a couple times. We make ourselves a bit obvious at times.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by DaMU » Fri May 31, 2019 7:13 pm

Jinnistan wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:57 pm
Or "Furankenshutain", as they say, or Gargantua. These films were Frankenstein Conquers the World and War of the Gargantuas, the latter being a favorite of mine.

Then again, I think Mothra is one of the best non-Godzilla kaiju films, so my tastes are not aligned with this thread.
I still haven't seen all that many Kaiju flicks, but Mothra would be at the top. Really dug its jungle adventure spirit.

1. Mothra
2. Godzilla
3. King Kong vs. Godzilla
4. Rodan

Beyond that, I've just seen the two Americanized versions ('98, '04) and have my ticket for the Arclight Dome on Sunday night. I'll try to snap a picture of the Godzilla mouth they have coming out of the top.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Ace » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:15 am

I set up a discord server but nobody ever joined. If you want I can set up another one just let meknow.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Hipster Thor » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:35 pm

There is one scene in the movie I really want to talk about and it is both a credit to the movie and can be interpreted as a knock against it.
The scene where Dr. Serizawa sacrifices himself to save Godzilla is a brilliant inversion of the original Godzilla film (Ironically or not not so titles King of the Monsters in the West). It brings the entire franchise to a satisfying arch. It wraps a bow on the whole 65 years. It consolidates what Godzilla has become over the many decades into a complete complete character, literally defining what Godzilla is or can be. Here yo have a man who in the original film dies so he can destroy Godzilla but now here is thatsame character dying to save Godzilla because Godzilla is what humanity needs to save the world. An embodiment of the duality of man’s malevolence and benovelence. The only problem is that this moment completely falls flat I theorize for anyone not overly familiar with the franchise, and I think the film is full of moments like that.
Could be too meta for the film’s own good.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:46 pm

Hipster Thor wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:35 pm
There is one scene in the movie I really want to talk about and it is both a credit to the movie and can be interpreted as a knock against it.
The scene where Dr. Serizawa sacrifices himself to save Godzilla is a brilliant inversion of the original Godzilla film (Ironically or not not so titles King of the Monsters in the West). It brings the entire franchise to a satisfying arch. It wraps a bow on the whole 65 years. It consolidates what Godzilla has become over the many decades into a complete complete character, literally defining what Godzilla is or can be. Here yo have a man who in the original film dies so he can destroy Godzilla but now here is thatsame character dying to save Godzilla because Godzilla is what humanity needs to save the world. An embodiment of the duality of man’s malevolence and benovelence. The only problem is that this moment completely falls flat I theorize for anyone not overly familiar with the franchise, and I think the film is full of moments like that.
Could be too meta for the film’s own good.
This scene is exactly the perfect example of why I have such mixed emotions about the film. I like it for all the reasons you just mentioned.

But...

It's propped up on the sloppiest, laziest set-ups that serve for something that doesn't make sense at all even in the logic of the film with THESE characters as to why it had to happen and the entire scenario is reliant upon copious scenes of characters reacting to screens and telling us that this is what is has to be rather than showing us anything involving Godzilla or damage to the ship.

It's Emmerich-level justifications of actions.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by The Nameless One » Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:02 pm

Hipster Thor wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 4:14 am
I struggle to think offhand how the core human plot in this film could have been improved. Maybe less expository scenes? Idk.
My big problem with the human plot, and the plot in general, is it seems to be driven by what I call "Prometheus syndrome" where the film is largely, if not entirely, propelled by human error. I can't break down specifics as it felt like the film was me thinking "why would you do that!?", to the point where literally everything is at the fault of what was a madcap comedy of errors on part of our human cast, and I can't chalk it up as intentional or subversive - it's certainly not satire. It was as if they were writing excuses for cool shit to happen on screen at the expense of dignity, especially the mom who is just the worst. There is no room for redemption there, she should've been eaten by Rodan. Hell, by the end of it I was rooting for the extinction event.

I'm not a fan of the Orca frequency device as the central plot device and feel like it leads to a large sum of these faults. Everything occurs at the push of a button, and they are all buttons which should not be pressed
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:34 pm

The Nameless One wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:02 pm
My big problem with the human plot, and the plot in general, is it seems to be driven by what I call "Prometheus syndrome" where the film is largely, if not entirely, propelled by human error. I can't break down specifics as it felt like the film was me thinking "why would you do that!?", to the point where literally everything is at the fault of what was a madcap comedy of errors on part of our human cast, and I can't chalk it up as intentional or subversive - it's certainly not satire. It was as if they were writing excuses for cool shit to happen on screen at the expense of dignity, especially the mom who is just the worst. There is no room for redemption there, she should've been eaten by Rodan. Hell, by the end of it I was rooting for the extinction event.

I'm not a fan of the Orca frequency device as the central plot device and feel like it leads to a large sum of these faults. Everything occurs at the push of a button, and they are all buttons which should not be pressed
Well said. Another problem is that so much of the film focuses on the mom and daughter yet their characterization shifts wildly from scene to scene. The motivation of the mom doesn't make any sense when thought about for longer than 5 secs and that undercuts the family drama to an extreme degree.

I don't demand complex characters in kaiju films. In fact, I often enjoy their shallowness and simplicity. I do, however, demand for them to make any sense at all and KoM often does not meet that very, very low bar.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Spencie Returns » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:42 am

Hipster Thor wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:35 pm
There is one scene in the movie I really want to talk about and it is both a credit to the movie and can be interpreted as a knock against it.
The scene where Dr. Serizawa sacrifices himself to save Godzilla is a brilliant inversion of the original Godzilla film (Ironically or not not so titles King of the Monsters in the West). It brings the entire franchise to a satisfying arch. It wraps a bow on the whole 65 years. It consolidates what Godzilla has become over the many decades into a complete complete character, literally defining what Godzilla is or can be. Here yo have a man who in the original film dies so he can destroy Godzilla but now here is thatsame character dying to save Godzilla because Godzilla is what humanity needs to save the world. An embodiment of the duality of man’s malevolence and benovelence. The only problem is that this moment completely falls flat I theorize for anyone not overly familiar with the franchise, and I think the film is full of moments like that.
Could be too meta for the film’s own good.
I finally got to see it and need to digest before raving, but I think this is a contender for my favorite part of the movie. One of the issues I had with Serizawa in Godzilla '14 was how his name felt tacked on as irreverent fan service. Here he manages to have the same plot arc as the original character, yet out of reverence for Godzilla as opposed to the original character's intentions to destroy him. It's a really neat inversion that retroactively makes Serizawa from Godzilla '14 seem less gimmicky.
The only complaint I really have for the movie, and disaster films in general, is how tedious the human peril becomes. I can forgive this movie more than most, given it's B-movie origins, but think it manages to single handedly ruin movies like Jackson's King Kong or The Hobbit. People running around avoiding nonstop monsters, debris, etc. destroys any real sense of tension. Otherwise, this movie gave me the chubs.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Ace » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:33 am

Just came out of it and yeah the human plot really holds it back. I enjoyed it in 2014 because Edwards interwove it nicely with Godzilla. He was a force of nature. But here it's like ok. We didn't need the Orca plot. Also she could have used it to control Ghidorah thuse negating the need to use it on all the other monsters....so yeah.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by The Nameless One » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:39 pm

Also, am I allowed to be annoyed at the fact that there are 17 kaiju wandering around and we get all of four of them? This is supposed to be an all out monster brawl dammit, I wanted a monster war! The trailers are just so damningly good
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Ace » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:46 pm

They only had the rights to the 4 kaiju. They made up a few more. Also another Muto. Neat.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Hipster Thor » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:01 pm

Ace wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:46 pm
They only had the rights to the 4 kaiju. They made up a few more. Also another Muto. Neat.
They have a mystery fifth one. It’s probably Destoroyah.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:42 pm

Hipster Thor wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:01 pm
They have a mystery fifth one. It’s probably Destoroyah.
You don't think it's...
MechaGhidorah?
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Spencie Returns » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:26 pm

I thought it was weird to show another Muto as the dilemma of the last film was that there were two left and they were trying to multiply. Also, despite not having the rights, could the giant spider have been an off the books reference to Kumonga?
ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:42 pm
You don't think it's...
MechaGhidorah?
Isn't that what they're hinted at in the clip after the credits?
Ace wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:33 am
Just came out of it and yeah the human plot really holds it back. I enjoyed it in 2014 because Edwards interwove it nicely with Godzilla. He was a force of nature. But here it's like ok. We didn't need the Orca plot. Also she could have used it to control Ghidorah thuse negating the need to use it on all the other monsters....so yeah.
I thought the point of Ghidorah was that he was an alien to our ecosystem (which excited me greatly), and that the Orca was ineffective on him compared to Earth's natural monsters. The Orca was basically a competitor for his dominance, he just seemed annoyed by it.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Charles » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:49 pm

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:34 pm
The motivation of the mom doesn't make any sense when thought about for longer than 5 secs
Even she starts doubting herself right after she reveals her motivation. That whole enviro arc with Charles Dance could have been removed entirely and replaced with just King Ghidorah waking up randomly. It was so weak. It reminded me of all those environmental themes in syfy movies, shoehorned in just so there's a theme at all.
Edit: And I just remembered how much of a pointless homage the Oxygen Destroyer was.
Hipster Thor wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 2:23 am
I thought the movie was great. :shrug:

Only thing I didn’t like was how they forced in the
Oxygen Destroyer
with almost not setup or gravitas. Everything else I thought was great.
Or consequence, really. You'd thing 1-shotting Godzilla would have made this the premier Kaiju-killing tool then and there, but it's never mentionned again.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Stu » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:18 am

Image
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Hipster Thor » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:01 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:42 pm
You don't think it's...
MechaGhidorah?
No, I don’t think so. You wouldn’t use the Oxygen Destroyer like that unless it was about setting up Destoroyah. The reveal at the end was exposed to it. The villain pedals in genetic material. The director also talked about Biollante and Gigan which are genetic creations. I think they are going in that direction. The Kaiju you suggested also certainly isn’t popular, you can judge that by the free market. They make so little toys of that one.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:02 am

Hipster Thor wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:01 am
No, I don’t think so. You wouldn’t use the Oxygen Destroyer like that unless it was about setting up Destoroyah. The reveal at the end was exposed to it. The villain pedals in genetic material. The director also talked about Biollante and Gigan which are genetic creations. I think they are going in that direction. The Kaiju you suggested also certainly isn’t popular, you can judge that by the free market. They make so little toys of that one.
I felt like the ending to this one already homaged the climax of the GvD so it seemed like going back in that direction, would put them in a bit of a pickle. Not that I would complain as that's among my favorite Godzilla films overall.

I didn't see the after credits personally, as at the time I watched it, the Reddit thread erroneously claimed that there wasn't an after credits and given that I had work the next morning, I wasn't vested in wasting time with credits for nothing. I had heard that it revolved around...
Tywin buying Ghidorah's head. That felt like a continuation of KG to me and the logical expansion of that is MechaGhidorah, right? Unless that isn't the after credits and I've been misled.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by DaMU » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:30 pm

Yeah, King of the Monsters disappointed me. I can kinda see MKS's point about Emmerich*, but at the same time, this felt more like Justice League to me, jamming too much in, too soon. I wonder if a movie between Godzilla 2014 and King of the Monsters (maybe a Godzilla vs. Rodan) would've helped bridge the gap between the restraint and reverence of Edwards' film and the batshittery of this one. But even then, you'd have to contend with how much of the new film is loaded with "and then" storytelling and how much of it is contrived and half-asses its way to the places it needs to get to. Two obvious examples:
Millie Bobby Brown successfully steals the Orca device because it's not being guarded at all, and Vera Farmiga sacrifices herself with the Orca when she could've achieved the same result by getting on the plane with her family. Serizawa takes the nuke to Godzilla because it has to be him and everyone agrees even though any of the many soldiers could've done the job and even might've been better.
There are other things that the movie doesn't properly set up but I assume longtime fans will enjoy.
Like HT says, the reversal with Serizawa is a nice idea if you remember the original film, but see above spoiler re: why did it have to be him? Because movie, that's why. Additionally, Mothra's essence reviving Godzilla isn't really set up in the film, so you basically have to shrug and go with a huge development in the final act if you're not familiar.
After admiring the aesthetic and tonal idiosyncrasies of Godzilla '14 and Kong: Skull Island, this felt like a comedown. My favorite stuff was the leaning-in to the mytho-religious associations, like how almost all the monsters are associated with temples and sacred mountains (except for intrusive King Ghidorah, but even he eventually flares his wings opposite a cross, like a grim antichrist). Kong: Skull Island handled this idea a little better, but I'm glad it carried over and eventually included some underwater ruins worthy of Lovecraft.

* I tend to associate Emmerich with Independence Day, The Day After Tomorrow, and 2012, and for all their conceptual dumbness, they felt more artfully and coherently staged than this film, which was a real surprise given my admiration for Trick 'r Treat and Krampus.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Charles » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:51 pm

DaMU wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:30 pm
Additionally, Mothra's essence reviving Godzilla isn't really set up in the film, so you basically have to shrug and go with a huge development in the final act if you're not familiar.[/spoiler]

I would say that that was appropriately set up. I'm not familiar with Mothra, I only saw '54 and Destroy All Monsters. But Mothra, throughout, seemed very other compared to the other Kaijus. She was presernted as very clearly angelic, and after the part where she leads Monarch to where Godzilla is, it's not too hard to believe that she has that brand of powers.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by DaMU » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:10 pm

Charles wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:51 pm
I would say that that was appropriately set up. I'm not familiar with Mothra, I only saw '54 and Destroy All Monsters. But Mothra, throughout, seemed very other compared to the other Kaijus. She was presernted as very clearly angelic, and after the part where she leads Monarch to where Godzilla is, it's not too hard to believe that she has that brand of powers.
I get what you're saying - I'd agree that she's presented as "other" and a "mother" - but I feel like dying and then your dust rejuvenating Godzilla is just too big and story-changing of a power to not be teased, especially in such an important dramatic moment. I don't want to be saying, "Wait, huh? I mean, okay, I guess it's the whole radiation thing or whatever" when I could be saying, "FUCK YEAH THERE IT IS!"
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Spencie Returns » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:47 pm

I was totally on board with half the stuff people seem to take issue with. I may have rolled my eyes at the Oxygen Destroyer's weak introduction from the last movie's weakest character, but damn if the payoff didn't make it all worth while. And Mothra passing on energy, radiation, magic, what-have-you is so in line with Toho that it didn't even phase me. I'm just happy that all of the fan service actually plays into the plot, as opposed to the new Star Wars movies feeling the urge to have characters casually bumping into background characters from the OT.

I'm also surprised at the people griping about the human element. These characters have way more personality than your standard Godzilla cast, especially compared to the one or two somewhat memorable characters from Godzilla '14 (that weren't Brian Cranston), a movie which seemed to get a critical pass on atmosphere alone.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Hipster Thor » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:57 pm

Two aspects greatly improved in this film over the last one are plot construction. I urge anyone who has not watched 2014 in a while to rewatch it to see what I am getting at. In 2014 the monster action unrealistically follows the main character. The MUTO happens to go to Hawaii where Brody is at the airport he is at. He happens to show up in Lone Pine where the train with the nuke is heading to San Francisco. He happens to be rescued by the halo drop team and happens to have the right job to join the mission. The monsters happen to be converging on San Francisco where Brody’s family lives. It’s all painfully convenient. And the core relationship of the film between Brody and Ellen is portrayed more often than not over phone lines with characters stating what they are feeling to one another. Ellen conveniently ignores Brody’s call when she is actively worried about if he is okay. In King of the Monsters the protagonists and antagonists are actual active participants rather than reactive. They cause the monsters to come to them or directly follow where they are going. I always find that much preferable.

My second point is a much more sinister one and should be obvious once you have the seed in mind. Godzilla 2014 has the most aggressive pro-Military coding I have ever seen in a huge blockbuster, to the point that it can come off as military recruitment propaganda. The military is constantly portrayed as extremely efficient, bad ass, effective, compassionate, noble and competent. The iconic halo jump sequence to me is the epitome of blockbuster recruitment tactics. The camera work fetishizes the military theater, soldiers, and weaponry. This isn’t just crazy tin-foil hat theorizing when you do research and find that the US Military subsidized the budget of the film and *had input on the script.* The more I think about it, the more revolting I find the whole exercise. Especially when Godzilla as a franchise has always been pretty anti-military. In this film the military does come off as the bad guys and incompetent, which I greatly appreciate.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:18 am

While I am incredulous about the underlying motivations of anything that features a hero soldier protagonist, I don't think funding from the US military is a particular strong case to make. The Pentagon frequently approves financing of films that have to use military vehicles and weaponry. In lending these to films, they get to approve how those vehicles are used. It's why we don't get many films with the US mowing down US citizens with tanks and whatnot.

All the Iron Man films received such funding, for instance. I find Godzilla to be as nefarious as War Machine.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Hipster Thor » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:43 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:18 am
While I am incredulous about the underlying motivations of anything that features a hero soldier protagonist, I don't think funding from the US military is a particular strong case to make. The Pentagon frequently approves financing of films that have to use military vehicles and weaponry. In lending these to films, they get to approve how those vehicles are used. It's why we don't get many films with the US mowing down US citizens with tanks and whatnot.

All the Iron Man films received such funding, for instance. I find Godzilla to be as nefarious as War Machine.
I agree. The defense department subsidizing movies is not uncommon, but like I said, I urge you to watch the film again with this in mind. Edwards, given his relative inexperience, I believe he allowed the military consultants to cross a line and have more influence than they should. The cinematic adulation of the armed forces is so beyond anything I have seen in a film of this type. It’s heightened realism not only contrasts bizarrely with the outlandish scenario, the glorification becomes distracting when you look for it.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Hipster Thor » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:52 am

For the record I don’t like the armed forces subsidizing the budget of any movie. I guess I am hyper aware of the coding. To Marvel/Disney’s credit, the military denied subsidizing Marvel films from Captain America: The First Avenger onward because they were no happy with the scripts, and Marvel did not budge. This changed for Captain Marvel when the military did subsidize the film, and the visual language on display in regards to military portrayal vs. The First Avenger is night and day.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:55 am

Hipster Thor wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:43 am
I agree. The defense department subsidizing movies is not uncommon, but like I said, I urge you to watch the film again with this in mind. Edwards, given his relative inexperience, I believe he allowed the military consultants to cross a line and have more influence than they should. The cinematic adulation of the armed forces is so beyond anything I have seen in a film of this type. It’s heightened realism not only contrasts bizarrely with the outlandish scenario, the glorification becomes distracting when you look for it.
Maybe it's because I've seen every Michael Bay and Peter Berg film but it doesn't strike me as particularly egregious, especially given that their plans to stop the MUTOS and Godzilla ultimately backfire or fail to do what they set out to do in the first place. I'm not saying it's not a factor, just that it's of no more excess than your typical hero soldier story.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Hipster Thor » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:02 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:55 am
Maybe it's because I've seen every Michael Bay and Peter Berg film but it doesn't strike me as particularly egregious, especially given that their plans to stop the MUTOS and Godzilla ultimately backfire or fail to do what they set out to do in the first place. I'm not saying it's not a factor, just that it's of no more excess than your typical hero soldier story.
I think what bothers me is how self serious the military stuff is, how super accurate it is. And how efficient it is. And how it frames the pacing and direction of a scene. One scene early on in the film sticks out to me when the admiral is on the USS Saratoga. He is being informed of the MUTO situation with the missing Russian submarine. The camera pans around the entire room showing everyone working their hardest as the admiral gives orders, and within seconds of being informed about the submarine he talks about the search teams mobilized already to find it, camera zooms in on a monitor showing a seal team already finding it in the span of seconds. The visual language in which this scene is conveyed speaks about the prowess and efficiency of the Armed Forces, and I don’t doubt that they are that efficient, but the military language here overrides the actual story of the film and dictates direction in a way divorced from everything else. And there are many scenes like this in the film where if removed can work as one of those well shot recruitment ads you see before the film in the theater.

EDIT: Also, like I said, the Godzilla franchise has always been unkind to the military’s efforts so I guess it sticks out even more for me. I think thdon’t kindest portrayal of the military in a Japanese Godzilla film was in Shin Godzilla where a Captain tells a soldier not to give up and that there are “other ways to protect the people than fighting” and that kind of stuck with me.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Rock » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:09 am

It's been a while since I've seen it, but I remember Godzilla Raids Again being pretty pro-military?
What with them going full Iron Eagle and bombing the shot out of Godzilla at the end, if I remember correctly.
Watching it right after the original the change in attitude was pretty jarring.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Hipster Thor » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:50 am

Rock wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:09 am
It's been a while since I've seen it, but I remember Godzilla Raids Again being pretty pro-military?
What with them going full Iron Eagle and bombing the shot out of Godzilla at the end, if I remember correctly.
Watching it right after the original the change in attitude was pretty jarring.
Godzilla Raids Again struggles to say really anything at all. It might be the most nothing a Godzilla movie can be. It makes you feel no specific way positive or negative. Even the worst Hodzilla movies can make you feel anger. It really feels like a film of everyone going through the motions to replicate the first movie and no one seems to want to be there. I will say this about GRA though; the solution to the Godzilla problem is not invented by the military. A civilian Good Samaritan sacrificing himself is the key to victory. A common theme in the Showa films is the scientists, journalists, and civilians save the world. The weirdos and outcasts. Toy inventors, hippies, and disgruntled detectives. I guess Godzilla Raids Again isn’t actively anti-military but it isn’t really actively anything at all.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by MadMan » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:29 am

Hipster Thor wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:35 pm
There is one scene in the movie I really want to talk about and it is both a credit to the movie and can be interpreted as a knock against it.
The scene where Dr. Serizawa sacrifices himself to save Godzilla is a brilliant inversion of the original Godzilla film (Ironically or not not so titles King of the Monsters in the West). It brings the entire franchise to a satisfying arch. It wraps a bow on the whole 65 years. It consolidates what Godzilla has become over the many decades into a complete complete character, literally defining what Godzilla is or can be. Here yo have a man who in the original film dies so he can destroy Godzilla but now here is thatsame character dying to save Godzilla because Godzilla is what humanity needs to save the world. An embodiment of the duality of man’s malevolence and benovelence. The only problem is that this moment completely falls flat I theorize for anyone not overly familiar with the franchise, and I think the film is full of moments like that.
Could be too meta for the film’s own good.
That was probably my favorite part. Well that and when Godzilla went full Shin Godzilla later on.

So yeah, I really liked the new Godzilla. I think the 2014 one is better made, however.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by DaMU » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:02 pm

Hipster Thor wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:57 pm
Two aspects greatly improved in this film over the last one are plot construction. I urge anyone who has not watched 2014 in a while to rewatch it to see what I am getting at. In 2014 the monster action unrealistically follows the main character. The MUTO happens to go to Hawaii where Brody is at the airport he is at. He happens to show up in Lone Pine where the train with the nuke is heading to San Francisco. He happens to be rescued by the halo drop team and happens to have the right job to join the mission. The monsters happen to be converging on San Francisco where Brody’s family lives. It’s all painfully convenient. And the core relationship of the film between Brody and Ellen is portrayed more often than not over phone lines with characters stating what they are feeling to one another. Ellen conveniently ignores Brody’s call when she is actively worried about if he is okay. In King of the Monsters the protagonists and antagonists are actual active participants rather than reactive. They cause the monsters to come to them or directly follow where they are going. I always find that much preferable.
This is something I noticed on rewatch because I've been trying, each time I watch the film, to better hone in on what's not working narratively. The initial thought of many is "not enough Godzilla." Which I get, but that's not the real problem. "Cranston dies too soon." We're getting warmer, because Cranston is the most passionate/motivated character in the film, but I don't think the better film is necessarily one where Cranston lives (it probably is-- but not necessarily so). "Ford is not that interesting." That's where the criticisms really lock onto something.

Because you're definitely right that coincidence repeatedly favors Ford's journey. Now, he's not purely reactive, since he does repeatedly make the active choice to see where people are going and volunteer his services. But there is something a bit too easy about him constantly being in situations where the choice isn't a difficult one to make. You could argue the better film would set his skills as a demolitions expert and his desire to return to his family against each other. Do you stay here and try to save your family by defeating the monsters, or do you leave and try to be with your family? etc.
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The above-written is wholly and solely the perspective of DaMU and should not be taken as an effort to rile, malign, or diminish you, dummo.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Slentert » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:58 pm

I just saw the new Godzilla movie.
Now I can finally read this thread.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Stu » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:14 am

Hipster Thor wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:52 am
For the record I don’t like the armed forces subsidizing the budget of any movie. I guess I am hyper aware of the coding. To Marvel/Disney’s credit, the military denied subsidizing Marvel films from Captain America: The First Avenger onward because they were no happy with the scripts, and Marvel did not budge. This changed for Captain Marvel when the military did subsidize the film, and the visual language on display in regards to military portrayal vs. The First Avenger is night and day.
For what it's worth, in Captain Marvel, Rambeau (I still can't believe that's really her character's name...) did mention that, in 1989, the Air Force still had the sexist policy of refusing to let female pilots to fly any combat missions at all, so it's not like that film portrays the military as being completely infalliable and perfect or anything.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Jinnistan » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:46 pm

My biggest gripe is.....why the hell isn't Dr. Ishiro Serizawa the main protagonist of these films? He's the only one who knows what's going on, who shows the most consistent stoicism, heroism, character strength and courage. Why do we have some random family to cheer? Why this family out of all the billions? Did Raymond Burr have a dysfunctional family? Maybe, but they had the good sense to spare us from that tear-jerky drama. The only tears in Godzilla should be the tears of joy when the Ifukube "dun-dun-duh, dun-dun-duh" kicks in.

I understand that "fanboys", in general, are emotionally damaged, but I hate to see them turn all of their childhood properties into therapy vehicles, where we can finally get Mom and Dad together and they'll actually listen to you, etc. From Star Wars to Superman, these fantasies have been subjugated to various Freudian traumas in unsubtle and unnecessary ways. A lot of unearned tears here. Anyway, along with the equally hollow comic relief of Stoner Boomer and cartoon villain Not-Quite CGI Peter Cushing and the carbon copy Sulaco marines, the human element is a bunch of soggy marketing stereotypes and LCD demagoguery. Watanabe's Serizawa and Ziyi's Shobijin (my personal favorite fan service touch) were literally the only characters worth caring about, as well as the only ones who didn't constantly insist on being cared about.

Dougherty proves to be very effective at his monster visuals, but, fer fuck's sake, someone smash his keyboard please.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:26 am

Jinnistan wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:46 pm
My biggest gripe is.....why the hell isn't Dr. Ishiro Serizawa the main protagonist of these films? He's the only one who knows what's going on, who shows the most consistent stoicism, heroism, character strength and courage. Why do we have some random family to cheer? Why this family out of all the billions? Did Raymond Burr have a dysfunctional family? Maybe, but they had the good sense to spare us from that tear-jerky drama. The only tears in Godzilla should be the tears of joy when the Ifukube "dun-dun-duh, dun-dun-duh" kicks in.

I understand that "fanboys", in general, are emotionally damaged, but I hate to see them turn all of their childhood properties into therapy vehicles, where we can finally get Mom and Dad together and they'll actually listen to you, etc. From Star Wars to Superman, these fantasies have been subjugated to various Freudian traumas in unsubtle and unnecessary ways. A lot of unearned tears here. Anyway, along with the equally hollow comic relief of Stoner Boomer and cartoon villain Not-Quite CGI Peter Cushing and the carbon copy Sulaco marines, the human element is a bunch of soggy marketing stereotypes and LCD demagoguery. Watanabe's Serizawa and Ziyi's Shobijin (my personal favorite fan service touch) were literally the only characters worth caring about, as well as the only ones who didn't constantly insist on being cared about.

Dougherty proves to be very effective at his monster visuals, but, fer fuck's sake, someone smash his keyboard please.
Throw some god-damned respeck on the name Charles Dance.

Also, Dougherty wrote Trick R Treat and Krampus, so I'd save the smashing of keyboards for he doesn't have the franchise demands of a major studio breathing down his neck.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Jinnistan » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:56 am

ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:26 am
Throw some god-damned respeck on the name Charles Dance.
I like Chuck, but he's a professional cartoon villain, and pretty much has been since Golden Child. He's the guy you want to cast when you want the audience to immediately know who the bad guy is.
ThatDarnMKS wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:26 am
Also, Dougherty wrote Trick R Treat and Krampus, so I'd save the smashing of keyboards for he doesn't have the franchise demands of a major studio breathing down his neck.
I thought Krampus was crap, but TrT was pretty good. I think the bottom line, though, is that the dialogue in GKOTM was indefensibly atrocious.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Rock » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:53 am

I laughed pretty hard when
the pilot ejected from the fighter jet only to get eaten by Rodan.
Anyway, I don't have anything to add that hasn't been said better upthread, but I did find the monster stuff good enough to overlook the crap people stuff and enjoy the movie.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by ThatDarnMKS » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:28 am

Jinnistan wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:56 am
I like Chuck, but he's a professional cartoon villain, and pretty much has been since Golden Child. He's the guy you want to cast when you want the audience to immediately know who the bad guy is.



I thought Krampus was crap, but TrT was pretty good. I think the bottom line, though, is that the dialogue in GKOTM was indefensibly atrocious.
He's an exceptional villain, cartoon or not. He also added a great degree of dignity and gravitas to his non-villainous character in Alien 3.

Krampus is wonderful, as is Trick R Treat. The dialogue in GOTM is atrocious.
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Re: It’s me, HipsterThor

Post by Stu » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:04 pm

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