YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:02 pm

kiddo in space wrote:Cool stuff is cool. Thanks Gort!
I appreciate you.

I wish I had taken the images to grayscale. The chroma aberrations are irritating me. Oh well.

I ordered Planet of the Apes 1968 today. It should be to me before the end of the month. I also picked up the library's DVD of the 1968 film...only to discover that it is a full screen edition. (Ugh!) I was planning to pull stills from it, but not now.

Still it has commentaries and things that the bare-bones version I ordered won't have, so I can get information from those. Fur teh essayz.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:38 am

Ew. Full screen Apes.

I've never seen the Burton version. I'm interested on your thoughts on it because they may motivate me to pick it up. I own the original but loaned it to someone almost a year ago... Hm. I'll have to go retrieve it soon, now that I'm thinking about it.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:45 am

Hank wrote:Ew. Full screen Apes.

I've never seen the Burton version. I'm interested on your thoughts on it because they may motivate me to pick it up. I own the original but loaned it to someone almost a year ago... Hm. I'll have to go retrieve it soon, now that I'm thinking about it.
Because it's pan and scan the full-screen framing is totally bananas. Often, the speaking character is off-screen. There seems to have been little panning done...mostly parking and scanning. :D

The Burton version will be the first film in this thread that you hear me speak of in less than appreciative terms. The makeup will garner huge praise form me, though. Also the SFX in general. It's other things that drag it down. Stay tuned to learn what I think those things are.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:47 am

YouTookMyName wrote: Because it's pan and scan the full-screen framing is totally bananas. Often, the speaking character is off-screen. There seems to have been little panning done...mostly parking and scanning. :D

The Burton version will be the first film in this thread that you hear me speak of in less than appreciative terms. The makeup will garner huge praise form me, though. Also the SFX in general. It's other things that drag it down. Stay tuned to learn what I think those things are.
Har. Har.

:P
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:31 am

Hank wrote: Har. Har.

:P
I thought that remark might have a certain appeal.

Keep in mind that the Burton Apes film isn't horrible, just nowhere near as good as the first one. I'll have to watch them back-to-back to help me figure out what's missing or present in the re-imagining that makes it inferior in my mind. Part of it may be that they could never get away with aping the ending of the 1968 version (vastly different from the ending of the novel) so they did a modification of the near-ending of the novel. And it has less impact than the '68 ending. Plus they try to have a more plot-substantial story, and it just winds up getting jumbled.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Trevor » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:51 am

Being a fan of Tim Burton, what disappoints me most about his Planet of the Apes is its lack of appealing aesthetic; visually, nothing in that film is appealing whatsoever. It looks repulsive and cold and unimaginative and like it could have been created by just about anybody. From Batman to Ed Wood to Big Fish, I've always admired him as a visual director. He put nothing of himself into Planet of the Apes. It comes across as nothing but a soulless money job.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:14 pm

Trevor wrote:Being a fan of Tim Burton, what disappoints me most about his Planet of the Apes is its lack of appealing aesthetic; visually, nothing in that film is appealing whatsoever. It looks repulsive and cold and unimaginative and like it could have been created by just about anybody. From Batman to Ed Wood to Big Fish, I've always admired him as a visual director. He put nothing of himself into Planet of the Apes. It comes across as nothing but a soulless money job.
I might quote you in my review! Especially since I agree that you can't see Tim Burton's touch very much in the movie. It's the most un-Burton-like of his films. If he had been quirky and weirder, the way he normally is, I might not have liked the film, either, but at least it wouldn't be because he's nowhere to be found.

But now that you mentioned this I'll have to try to spy some Burtonesque touches somewhere.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:18 pm

A Comparison of Romeo & Juliet (1968) and Romeo+Juliet (1996):
The Most Famous Love Story Ever?

Image

Shakespeare adapted his play Romeo and Juliet from an existing long-form poem entitled “The Tragicall Historye of Romeus and Juliet” by Arthur Brook. The poem was originally published in 1562, around the time of Shakespeare’s birth (or when Edward de Vere was about 12), and was re-published shortly before the Bard’s play was written. The play has been performed countless times, and made into quite a handful of films. Let’s see, that would be Romeo og Julie for RT's Harry Caul, and Romeu & Julieta for Vasco. The English play is set in Verona, Italy.

Encyclopedia Britannica alleges that the poem was based on a French translation of an Italian poem by Matteo Bandello. I found a little information about the Italian poet, elsewhere:
From The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition: Matteo Bandello, 1485-1561, Italian storywriter, a Dominican priest. He is famous for his novellas, short tales in imitation of Boccaccio, that provided themes for several 17th-century plays. Often coarse, they have considerable vitality and occasional tragic force. His version of an earlier Romeo and Juliet is probably the source of Shakespeare's play. An edition of his novellas was translated into English by Sir Geoffrey Fenton in 1567 and reprinted in 1924.
I put this in to establish that the play is a remake of a poem that is a remake of an Italian poem, by way of French translation. In other words, the story has been through many versions. That makes its fame long-term.

If you watch the play or a film of it carefully, you realize that Romeo is not a great lover — instead he is just a kid who’s terribly horny, and Juliet is the new darling of his eye. Yet, he has just thrown over another girl for her. Why?...because the fair Rosaline wouldn’t give him the time of day, apparently. So he goes for what’s available. Now, he makes a good choice (any guy could understand his attraction to either actress that plays Juliet in these films). But “impetuous” is an understatement when you dissect these two kids’ decision to marry.

At the risk of repeating an idea that appeared in an earlier post, I will venture that Romeo and Juliet is not a “love story” at all. The romance between the kids serves a different purpose. It is a tale about the divisive nature of vengeance and how it perpetuates enmity beyond the span of a lifetime, and without any reason whatsoever. That all are punished when you seek to exact vengeance on your “enemies.” The statement that the play makes is rather simple: the only thing that will stop vengeance is love — not the death of an enemy. And you accomplish this by looking at the person, not their lineage or past grievances with their family. Juliet says as much in the speech she gives from the balcony about Romeo’s name not being equivalent to the young man who bears it. “A rose by any other word would smell as sweet,” is her conclusion while pondering this fact. So, yes there is romance. And yes, it is a story about “love,” but the lust exhibited by the two teenage title-characters is not the love that the play is about.

Anyone agree?

Image
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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:26 pm

A Comparison of Romeo & Juliet (1968) and Romeo+Juliet (1996):
Image Weblinks for the Romeo & Juliet Films

A Project Gutenberg free electronic edition of Shakespeare’s play

The full text of Romeo and Juliet in HTML form (in case you don’t want to download the script from Project Gutenberg, but would like to read it).

Romeo & Juliet has been made into film versions many times! Plus, it has inspired other films.

1968 & 1996 Films. A resource for students. Actually, this website includes many things that I have been including in these Rematch threads—including a comparison to the remake!

1968 film. The inevitable Wikipedia article

The play. Inevitable Wikipedia article

1996 film. The inescapable Wikipedia article

Of interest to those who may have bought into the basic idea of Shakespeare in Love: a page of notes about Arthur Brook’s Romeus and Juliet, first published in a 1562 edition. The overall story is very similar, but the time frames are much greater than what Shakespeare decided on. Some of our "favorite details" are not the same, either! But, basically, it is Romeo and Juliet. Even the names of the families are the same. Balthasar replaced Romeus' servant Peter (who became a Capulet servant that goes around with the Nurse).

Wikipedia also features an article about the director of the 1968 film, Franco Zeffirelli

For more trivia about the 1968 Romeo & Juliet film
“According to Franco Zeffirelli's autobiography, Paul McCartney was originally asked to play the part of Romeo.”

For more trivia about the 1996 Romeo + Juliet production
“The majority of sets were built from scratch in order to achieve the film's unique look. The Sycamore Grove theatre and huts on Verona Beach were actually destroyed by a hurricane during filming. The beginning of the hurricane is evident during Mercutio's death scene, and many pick up shots had to be filmed elsewhere.”

Have you ever heard of Edward de Vere?
I find the idea that he is the actual author of the works attributed to Wm. Shakespeare (which would be a pen-name, if true) rather interesting, although there are questions. Some believe that an entire group of men were responsible for the plays and poetry attributed to Shakespeare!
A Wikipedia link.
A website devoted to Edward de Vere.
Another website arguing for de Vere as the Shakespeare author.
A letter that convincingly argues for the Stratfordian authorship, by Wm. M. Murphy.

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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:30 pm

YouTookMyName wrote: At the risk of repeating an idea that appeared in an earlier post, I will venture that Romeo and Juliet is not a “love story” at all. The romance between the kids serves a different purpose. It is a tale about the divisive nature of vengeance and how it perpetuates enmity beyond the span of a lifetime, and without any reason whatsoever. That all are punished when you seek to exact vengeance on your “enemies.” The statement that the play makes is rather simple: the only thing that will stop vengeance is love — not the death of an enemy. And you accomplish this by looking at the person, not their lineage or past grievances with their family. Juliet says as much in the speech she gives from the balcony about Romeo’s name not being equivalent to the young man who bears it. “A rose by any other word would smell as sweet,” is her conclusion while pondering this fact. So, yes there is romance. And yes, it is a story about “love,” but the lust exhibited by the two teenage title-characters is not the love that the play is about.

Anyone agree?
Yep.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:33 pm

YouTookMyName wrote:... although there are questions. Some believe that an entire group of men were responsible for the plays and poetry attributed to Shakespeare!
Mostly nutjobs who refuse to believe an undereducated "commoner" could be so gifted in letters.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:35 pm

dreiser wrote:
Mostly nutjobs who refuse to believe an undereducated "commoner" could be so gifted in letters.
So, you view this idea as "elitism." True?
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:43 pm

YouTookMyName wrote: So, you view this idea as "elitism." True?
Aye.

I've seen several documentaries with conspiracy theorists --- all of them complete snobs, btw --- speculating it was Bacon, or Marlowe, or somebody from the royal family, etc. You sit there after 1 - 2 hours and realize you've seen no tangible evidence to disprove Bill as the true author.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:00 pm

dreiser wrote:
Aye.

I've seen several documentaries with conspiracy theorists --- all of them complete snobs, btw --- speculating it was Bacon, or Marlowe, or somebody from the royal family, etc. You sit there after 1 - 2 hours and realize you've seen no tangible evidence to disprove Bill as the true author.
I've never seen any of those!

I learned about Edward de Vere from a book called The 100: a ranking of the most influential persons in history by Michael H. Hart. In the 1992 edition, which I have, Hart carefully details the de Vere theory. He doesn't try to disprove the authorship of the Stratfordian, all he does is provide 14 pages of evidence for de Vere, and a page or so showing why "it is unlikely" that the Stratfordian was the author.

It's Chapter 31 in his book. Since you've seen the other theorist's ideas on TV, it might be of interest to read this. If not, you'd possibly be interested in which 100 people he selected. He even shows how his list changed between the 1978 edition (which contained the classical tale of Wm. Shakespeare of Stratford on Avon) and the 1992 edition. Certainly no one would agree with all 100 selections, and no one would totally agree with his rankings of those in the list, but it's interesting to read simply for the biographies. The man did a lot of research to write his book. And this is while doing his day job as a physicist and astronomer for NASA.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:11 pm

YouTookMyName wrote: I've never seen any of those!

I learned about Edward de Vere from a book called The 100: a ranking of the most influential persons in history by Michael H. Hart. In the 1992 edition, which I have, Hart carefully details the de Vere theory. He doesn't try to disprove the authorship of the Stratfordian, all he does is provide 14 pages of evidence for de Vere, and a page or so showing why "it is unlikely" that the Stratfordian was the author.

It's Chapter 31 in his book. Since you've seen the other theorist's ideas on TV, it might be of interest to read this. If not, you'd possibly be interested in which 100 people he selected. He even shows how his list changed between the 1978 edition (which contained the classical tale of Wm. Shakespeare of Stratford on Avon) and the 1992 edition. Certainly no one would agree with all 100 selections, and no one would totally agree with his rankings of those in the list, but it's interesting to read simply for the biographies. The man did a lot of research to write his book. And this is while doing his day job as a physicist and astronomer for NASA.
"Several" is probably a stretch, but at least three docs on PBS. Plus whatever I've read online and such.

That sounds like a cool book. I'll have to check it out at the library if they have a copy.

Speaking of Shakespeare, Gort, do you have any appreciation texts that you favor? Oddly enough, science fiction writer extraordinare Isaac Asimov is the author of the finest tome covering all of The Bard's work I've ever come across. Beautiful stuff.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:32 am

dreiser wrote:
"Several" is probably a stretch, but at least three docs on PBS. Plus whatever I've read online and such.

That sounds like a cool book. I'll have to check it out at the library if they have a copy.

Speaking of Shakespeare, Gort, do you have any appreciation texts that you favor? Oddly enough, science fiction writer extraordinare Isaac Asimov is the author of the finest tome covering all of The Bard's work I've ever come across. Beautiful stuff.
Would it be this one? Asimov's Guide to Shakespeare: A Guide to Understanding and Enjoying the Works of Shakespeare
I'll have to check to see if my library has a copy of that one!

I don't have any Shakespeare appreciators in print. I do have a complete collected works volume in my box-'o-books in the basement. They've been there for 9 years, now. I hope the silverfish haven't got in among them. I can't remember the editor's name. Rockwell Kent sounds familiar but I don't find the same cover for the book in any of the online illustrations. We also have The Great Books of the Western World with un-annotated Shakespeare in two volumes. If you can't look up the words and find Elizabethan meanings, you just have to skip over them, I guess. Ha ha!

EDiT: hold on. It is illustrated by Rockwell Kent. I found a used copy posted on the net. On ebay. Look quick. It will be gone by US Tax Day.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:20 pm

YouTookMyName wrote: Would it be this one? Asimov's Guide to Shakespeare: A Guide to Understanding and Enjoying the Works of Shakespeare
I'll have to check to see if my library has a copy of that one!
That's the one. I used that book while I was taking a Shakespeare appreciation course in college. Felt like I got so much more out of the class because of Asimov's analysis.

The book was out of print forever, so I bought a hardbound original copy from eBay for $120. Sure enough, I noticed they'd printed a new paperback version at a bookstore within a year or so. Still, I couldn't be pissed because I love the book so much.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:45 pm

I don't think I've ever spent that much on a book. :D

The Planet of the Apes 1968 DVD arrived in the mail today. I have both discs needed to begin work on the PotA Rematch, now!
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:17 pm

YouTookMyName wrote:I don't think I've ever spent that much on a book. :D
I did suffer a little cognitive dissonance when I found out later there was a new printing. At the time I felt I was getting something pretty rare as well as instructive.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:22 pm

dreiser wrote:
I did suffer a little cognitive dissonance when I found out later there was a new printing. At the time I felt I was getting something pretty rare as well as instructive.
Plus, you had the advantage of the time value of your money. If you had waited, you would have saved money...meanwhile you could not have read the book. You know all about that, due to your career, of course. I'm just showing off.

I've already got three or four ideas for essays jamming into my brain for the PotA Rematch! One I want to do is an illustrated comparison of the ape makeup from 2001 and the ape makeup from both PotA versions, but especially the 1968 makeup that won an honorary Oscar. At the time ('69 Oscar season) I read that it was because the Oscar nominators/voters probably didn't even recognize that the superb makeup in 2001, was makeup! :)
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:33 pm

A Comparison of Lord of the Flies (1963) and Lord of the Flies (1990)
The Score

Image

Low budget soundtracks often resort to rather simplistic musical arrangements. No exception is the 1963 Lord of the Flies film by Peter Brook. The 1990 remake has an obviously larger budget for the composition and performance of the music track, so it sounds lusher and better. Leppard's 1963 score is a soulmate to Jerry Goldsmith's 1968 score for Planet of the Apes, so it might have been a phenomenon that began to grow in popularity among composers and directors in the 1960's. The Leppard score is not quite so atonal as the Goldsmith score, but it is sparser in most places.

Raymond Leppard uses what sounds like mostly improvised drum, flute and horn choruses and riffs for his soundtrack. In some parts (such as the aftermath of the moonlight dance on the beach) he uses a children’s choir singing variations of one of the themes he composed for the film, and these musical sections are brilliant and beautiful. A lot of incidental music from the late 1950s and early 1960s is atonal and played as triads on some instrument or another, or a discordant interaction between two instrumental timbres to affect a disconsolate feel. One such repeating motif involves a flute and a fluttering articulation of the air flow. It is in a minor key and rises then falls, but not to the base note. It has a lighter feel to it than the darker music Sarde composed for the remake.

Philippe Sarde uses more orchestral themes, and often draws from world music for his orchestrations. He uses soprano voices for a choral motif that appears in more than one place, among them the confrontation with Jack over Piggy’s glasses. The voices sound more like a women’s choir to me than a children’s choir, but I could be mistaken. Overall the music is “bigger,” yet in one scene Sarde uses a solo flute (whistle, actually) in what might be an homage to Leppard’s flutes in the 1963 film. Twice, he quotes a portion of Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring, before bringing in his own themes. It is a good score. I wish a copy were more readily available.

Here is a link to the post in this thread where the Lord of the Flies Soundtracks are featured, along with possible sources of recordings.

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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:42 pm

Image A memorable quote or two from the 1963 version of Lord of the Flies

Piggy (as Jack’s hunters run away to their own camp): What’s grown-ups going to say? Look at ‘em!
Ralph: Maybe I ought to give up being chief.
Piggy: You can’t, Ralph. Not now!

and later,
Ralph (after deciding not to blow the conch as Jack’s hunters leave): If I blow the conch and they don’t come back—then, we’ve had it.

Choir (hunters): Kill the pig! Slit her throat! Bash her in!
and later,
Hunters: Kill the Beast.! Slit it’s throat! Bash it in!


As the boys discuss what to do about the Beast:
Jack: What about my hunters, then?
Ralph: Boys armed with sticks?



Image A memorable quote or two from the 1990 version of Lord of the Flies


Eric: Give us a break! What do you think—you have to be 11 years old or you can’t stand a dumbass watch?
Boy: Just stay awake.
Eric: What’s the big deal? There’s only Ralph left.
Sam: They’re scared of the monster.
Eric: You said we don’t believe in the monster. You said.
Sam: I’m pretty sure we don’t!


Jack: Roger’s the pig! (the boys play zealously and dangerously at stabbing Roger, who cowers as if he’s the pig)
Jack: C’mon, hunters! Billy’s the monster! (they play even more dangerously at killing the Billy-monster)
Jack: It’s the monster! It’s the real monster! Kill ‘im! (the boys charge down the beach toward an approaching figure)


Piggy (weeping): We did everything just the way grown-ups would’ve. Why didn’t it work? Things would be much better if it weren’t for him. I wish he was dead.
Ralph: No you don’t.
Piggy: I do!

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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:42 pm

A Comparison of Romeo & Juliet (1968) and Romeo+Juliet (1996):
Image A memorable quote or two from these Films

You might think the memorable quotes would be the same from both movies, as they’re both based on the same play. But the two directors made different cuts from Shakespeare’s work. So they may not be! To find out what was cut you’d have to sit down with the original script of the play and watch the film. I actually did this once (I know. I know.), but I don’t recall what was left out of each version.

A memorable quote or two from the 1968 version of Romeo & Juliet

TYBALT
What, art thou drawn among these heartless hinds?
[draws sword]
TYBALT
Turn thee, Benvolio. Look upon thy death.
BENVOLIO
I do but keep the peace. Now, put away
your sword or manage it to part these men
with me.
TYBALT [laughs]
What? Drawn and you talk of peace?
I hate the word as I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee.
Have at thee, coward!


MERCUTIO
A plague on both your houses! They've made worm's meat of me.


and later

ROMEO
Oh! I am fortune’s fool!


A memorable quote or two from the 1996 version of Romeo + Juliet

JULIET
O Romeo, Romeo! wherefore art thou Romeo?
Deny thy father and refuse thy name;
Or, if thou wilt not, be but sworn my love,
And I'll no longer be a Capulet.

ROMEO
[Aside] Shall I hear more, or shall I speak at this?

JULIET
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.

ROMEO
I take thee at thy word:
Call me but love, and I'll be new baptized;
Henceforth I never will be Romeo.

JULIET
What man art thou that thus bescreen'd in night
So stumblest on my counsel?

ROMEO
By a name
I know not how to tell thee who I am:
My name, dear saint, is hateful to myself,
Because it is an enemy to thee;
Had I it written, I would tear the word.

JULIET
My ears have not yet drunk a hundred words
Of that tongue's utterance, yet I know the sound:
Art thou not Romeo and a Montague?

ROMEO
Neither, fair saint, if either thee dislike.


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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:57 pm

A Comparison of The Time Machine (1960) and The Time Machine (2002):

Image Internet Movie Database Pages

The IMDb page for the 1960 George Pal production of The Time Machine

The IMDb page for the 2002 Simon Wells production of The Time Machine



Image RottenTomatoes Reviews

Rotten Tomatoes has a page about the 1960 production
Tomatometer is 75%. User rating is at 6.9/10

RT also has a page about the 2002 production
Tomatometer is at 28%. User rating runs 4.8/10
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:01 pm

A Comparison of Romeo & Juliet (1968) and Romeo+Juliet (1996):

Image Internet Movie Database Pages
The IMDb page for the 1968 Franco Zeffirelli production of Romeo & Juliet
The IMDb page for the 1996 Baz Luhrmann production of Romeo + Juliet

Image RottenTomatoes Reviews
Rotten Tomatoes has a page about the 1968 production Tomatometer is 96%. User rating is at 69%
RT also has a page about the 1996 production The Tomatometer is at 74%. User rating runs 76%

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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:04 pm

A Comparison of Lord of the Flies (1963) and Lord of the Flies (1990):

Image Internet Movie Database Pages

The IMDb page for the 1963 Peter Brook production of Lord of the Flies
The IMDb page for the 1990 Harry Hook production of Lord of the Flies

Image RottenTomatoes Reviews
Rotten Tomatoes has a page about the 1963 production
Tomatometer is 100%, which you find much more often among classic films than you do among new releases. User rating is at 60% approval.
RT also has a page about the 1990 production.
The Tomatometer is at 61%. User rating runs 53% approval.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:19 pm

I really need to get on to graphics and writing more diligently, for the Rematches between three films made from Dashiell Hammett's 1930 novel The Maltese Falcon, and between two films based on Pierre Boulle's novel Planet of the Monkeys.

I have watched all 5 films. I've got frames pulled from the Falcon films. Need to pull stills from the Apes films and watch them again for notes. I am also working on links for the various films, novels, and fun information about the films.

I have only 10 posts remaining for the original three Rematches, so I need to get going on the next two rounds!
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:49 pm

YouTookMyName wrote:A Comparison of Romeo & Juliet (1968) and Romeo+Juliet (1996):
Image A memorable quote or two from these Films

You might think the memorable quotes would be the same from both movies, as they’re both based on the same play. But the two directors made different cuts from Shakespeare’s work. So they may not be! To find out what was cut you’d have to sit down with the original script of the play and watch the film. I actually did this once (I know. I know.), but I don’t recall what was left out of each version.
I've already posted this one I think?

"O, she doth teach the torches to burn bright!" --- Romeo
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Mod Hip » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:21 pm

Let's hope this is somewhat relevant (when isn't it? then again, I'm four beers in)...

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:36 pm

And in a H(iger) D(efinition) version :D

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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Mod Hip » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:45 pm

Haha, thanks. I was too lazy/drunk to look for a better one :P Such a great tune!!
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:30 am

Mod Hip wrote:Haha, thanks. I was too lazy/drunk to look for a better one :P Such a great tune!!
It came up at the end of your clip! I clicked, and then I saved links and posted.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:01 am

Planet of the Apes (2001) dir. Tim Burton
Image

IMDb link RT-link

Year: 2001 Director: Tim Burton Cast: Mark Wahlberg, Tim Roth, Helena Bonham Carter, Michael Clarke Duncan, Paul Giamatti, David Warner Length: 124 min. Color/Stereo

Image
"Get your stinking hands off me, you damn, dirty human!"

In 1968 the film Planet of the Apes was rated G. This version is rated PG-13. So this one should be better, right? Higher rating, more nearly adult sensibilities. Right? No. ... More action violence. Ratchet up the stoopid, and wiggle stuff around a lot.

This movie does not suck; and it does entertain. But it also disappoints me each time I watch it. It seems a perfect example of marketeers running a film (ruining it, too). In some parts of the movie, a band of firecrackers can provide more entertainment than this movie does. Overall, though, it has enough Tim Burton touches to make it watchable. At least once.

Face it, this film has a lot going for it: Tim Burton; Helena Bonham Carter; Paul Giamatti; Tim Roth; David Warner, Michael Clarke Duncan's rumbling basso voice! Kristofferson even has a bit part. Philippe Rousselot was the lighting cameraman. Check his IMDb filmography, and you'll have heard of over half the films he's shot. The production designer did Fargo, and Lebowski! Rick Baker designed the makeup. As bizarre as some of it gets, it's 1000% better than the prototype makeup in the 1968 film.

Image
And everyone does their jobs well. It looks superb. The makeup is fascinating except for the misguided attempt to make the female apes "pretty," which gave me my very first uncanny-valley experience, and continues to, big time. The acting behind that makeup is generally very good. The costumes are well-done and not too far into the "hey, look at me" category, although they do tread there. So, if everyone does a good job, why is the film such a disappointment?

I think it's because either 1) everyone tried too hard, or 2) putting a bunch of brilliant, beautiful colors of paint into a pot and stirring it makes brown. (Draw your own analogies.) For example, Giamatti plays his orangutan human-trader just a little too fawningly, just a little too irritatingly, almost as if Burton told him, "This is for kids. Make sure they understand that Limbo is a sleezebag." In fact, the problems probably rest in the script (don't they, so often?) by Broyles, Konner and Rosenthal. Did Burton feel overconfident that he had a money-maker on his hands? (It did make a hell of a lot of money.) Or was he shoe-horned into this production just so his god-like name could go on the production and draw an audience? Who knows? Somehow, all that keg of beautiful gunpowder misfires, and the stuff winds up all over the room whenever I watch.

Image
Don't get me wrong; this is not a terrible film. It has moments of sheer genius. Trouble is, those moments get passed by, as the sheer genius is driven further, and winds up being forced into sheer oh-gaawwwd-ness. It doesn't ever drive me to mutter it aloud, but I keep thinking, "Why did they do that?" a lot as I watch. There is a good idea...and then it gets used to the point of seeming pedestrian; and then it gets used to the point of seeming comically overdone. And this happens over and over in the film. It comes off in the end as a widescreen made-for-TV movie with a huge budget.

In order to discern the answers to some of these "Why'd they doits?" I had to reconfigure my brain into market-think. For example, the first time I watched it back in 2001 when the DVD popped onto the Blockbuster shelf, I didn't even notice that the big-headed kid has any lines. I thought they had a character with a name who never talks, and hardly does anything!

Here is the character I mean: Birn.
Image
He is clearly target-audience bait. Also, his sister, this one
Image
is definitely target-audience bait, although her purpose is different.

Now that I've seen it four times, I realize that Birn is the plant for the boys who were expected to come watch this movie. "Oh, cool, I could be like that guy! I would love to have a sister that looked like her!" Boys don't think clearly sometimes. Yeah, big-headed, narrow-shouldered young Birn is there for the target audience to identify with. Doe-eyed, large-breasted Daena is there to be drooled over by said target audience. Captain Leo Davidson is there for the wind blowing through the trees to frighten him into...oops, wrong movie.

Daena's presence was easy to figure out...although her name is as perplexing as Dwan's in the 1978 Kong remake. Oh, wait, it's actually not. Clearly, the names are both typos, and the writers looked at them and said, "Hey, that name's cool as shit!" And they kept the names. (They got the description half right.) The actress who plays Daena was born "Estella Dawn Warren." Do you think the writers looked at her birth middle name and thought, "Why, her middle name's Dawn, and a Dawn typo became Dwan's name in the 1976 King Kong remake, and this is a remake, so we can transpose letters in her character's name and see if someone writing about the movie on the corrierino catches it!"? That seems a little unlikely. But I still wonder this: Can you look at the cast of characters and if the names of the female protagonists are goofy, the movie is doomed? Maybe. I have two examples that would suggest it, but that's not a statistically verifiable number.

Image
I like to look at this movie, but what I see is not enough to make me say, "Great movie!" Instead, it is just skewed off the mark enough for me to say, "What a disappointing movie." It tries to be bigger than its breeches, as my relatives used to say. There is so much packed into its roughly two hours of story-mangling time that it's hard to follow the first time you see it. And if that's the only time you see it (I can imagine many people not giving it a second or third chance) you should feel deflated and disappointed. If you love the original film this one is likely to let you down. If you hate the original film, you might go either way on this one. Older teens, even, could be expected to want more than this outing delivers. I daresay the more male you are and the younger you are, the more you are likely to like this film.

But, despite the reaming I've just given the film, I honestly don't think it's terrible...simply not nearly as good as it should have been. I think this film deserves every star of its 5.5/10 star rating by the denizens of IMDb. With 77,108 votes cast, that's probably a pretty solid 5.5/10. And as I watched this film the first, second, third, and fourth times I continued to wonder, "What went wrong?"

Image
If someone in the cast and crew had believed that "less is more" this probably would have turned out the equal of the 1968 film. I can dream, can't I, that it might have happened? After all, you can't blame the environmentalist message that so clearly creeps into the film for its unsatisfactory outcome; the 1968 film has the same environmentalist slant. You can't blame the "humans are ruining the planet" notions so obvious in this one for ruining the film; the 1968 film features the same theme. So if it's not politics that ruined the 2001 re-imagining, what did? Search me. Perhaps it will occur to me as I write the essays. Meanwhile, here's the list of likes and don't likes for the 2001 movie:

LIKE Burton's decision to have the apes act like apes. One of the gripes I had (have) with the 1968 film is that the apes act like humans wearing makeup, and other than a few actors who waddle unconvincingly, there is not much of an attempt to make them ape-like.

LIKE The sets are cool as snot. They are decorated to the point where the ape houses look like they are lived in. They are warm and inviting (except for the house-human cages in the kitchen). The set-design actually invokes the feel of the novel. I can see this as a place where apes live and work and connive and do other human things.

Image
LIKE Burton's apeing of the first film's decision to make the apes low-tech in order to save money. The people who claim that this film is not a remake clearly haven't read the novel. Burton steals/borrows a hell of a lot more from Schaffner's film than he does from Boulle's book. But the low-tech presentation of the apes on the planet of the apes makes the condition seen at the end of the film all that more radically surprising. The ending of this version of the film, by the way, is the ending of the story-within-a-story in the novel. The actual surprise ending of the novel would be almost impossible to film.

LIKE The acting and characterization of the apes in this movie...up to a point. Tim Roth's mannerisms as General Thade are just short of marvelous, in between his Cheetah moments of scampering over the set. The orangutan politician who comes to dinner at Sandar's house is particularly amusing. By and large the actors manage to be both human and ape-like for most of the run. But at times the ape-icity of the acting goes too far, and it just becomes laughable...unintentionally, I suspect.

Image
LIKE Charlton Heston's cameo (uncredited) as Thade's dying father...who has to slam humans and their invention of the gun!

LIKE When Ari first shows up at the animal-monger's place, she swings from the rafters, and it is charming. But Ari doesn't do that other than this one time. It allows Bonham Carter to establish that her character with the horrid face is a non-human, and then it is dropped. If only Burton had allowed Thade to merely suggest his chimp-ness!

LIKE The overall feel of the film just before it crashes. I can't tell you when it crashes. It gets off to a stumbling start, almost falls a couple times, but stays on its feet somehow; then it goes pretty good for a while, pumping its legs expertly as it moves toward some kind of invisible finish line; and then it sort of gets its feet mired in the muck toward the end. But for a little while there, it feels great.

Image
LIKE As I wrote above, the costumes, sets, the makeup for the most part. The photography is very well-done most of the way through. Something seems unwell about the desert sets at the end. You know, the first end, on the planet of the apes. And I like Danny Elfman's score well enough to have bought the CD. (The product number of the CD is SK 89666, by the way.)

LIKE The idea of telling a different story in a remake of a well-known film. I like that idea. The execution left much to be desired, though. Perhaps they told the wrong story. Perhaps I subconsciously wanted it to be more about the same planet of the apes that I saw in the first film, rather than being about a different planet of different apes.

LIKE The fact that the train, though it tips and waggles on the track, with wheels leaving the rails entirely at some moments, never quite derails to the point of wrecking (although I'd have to say that the train loses a car or two off the back).

Image
DON'T LIKE Many ape characters are overdrawn to the point that they remind me of 1960's sci-fi where the bulk of the audience was expected to not be able to catch up. Tropes are one thing. Overdone tropes are another, and this movie is full of tropes pressed just a little bit too far. Many kudi to the actors for their attempts to reign this in somewhat.

DON'T LIKE Burton's decision to have Thade bouncing around like an untrained ape at the zoo too often. Okay, once or twice, to see the chimp General acting like a real chimpanzee is pretty cool. Genius, in fact. After the third time, rather in the middle of the third time, it gets boring as a stuffy nose. I don't mind the ape-like way with which he explores things and other apes with his nose, or the way he cradles the guns in the film; again, that's pure genius. What I tire of very quickly is him leaping about. Makes me want to say, "Okay. I got the point. Let's move on, please."

Image
DON'T LIKE Big. The scope of the film cannot make up for its failure to have something to say. Rather, the hugeness gets in the way of it saying anything. I'll face the fact that the first film is as much an action flick as it is sci-fi or social commentary. In the case of the 2001 version, though, there is an inept attempt to layer messages, and it just makes brown goo instead of a pretty picture. But it's brown goo with a cast of thousands!

Image
DON'T LIKE Captain Davidson's complete lack of curiosity about the world in which he finds himself. Hell, all he wants to do is escape. The guy totally lacks imagination. At least Taylor in the 1968 film wondered about things and thought about where he was! Davidson is a robot. Taylor is an annoying prick. The score is: Taylor 10, Davidson 0.

DON'T LIKE The feeble and unsuccessful attempt to make the female apes "pretty.' Gawd what an awful misfire. By the fourth watch I finally got past Helena Bonham Carter's makeup job to watch and see if she was acting back there. She looked better in Sweeny Todd. The thing is, with Tim Burton you can't be certain he didn't put that weird makeup in just for the gaudiness of it, you know. He very much likes to play with our minds.

DON'T LIKE The way the "new" story interferes with my ability to forget the old story. By that I mean that Burton's "re-imagining" was close enough to the original movie that it wouldn't let me decide to watch this one...without comparing. Even though I like the more primitive ambiance, I wonder if the new film would not have been more successful on its own if Burton had used his 20-times larger budget to create the world that the novel depicts: a modern ape world with cars, planes, trains, televisions and spaceships. Imagine Thade with a tank corps! On second thought, don't imagine that.

DON'T LIKE The disappointment.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:28 am

Alex J. Murphy wrote:I may be the only person who likes Burton's Planet of the Apes more than the Heston one, so that round in particular should be interesting.
Ah, then you probably won't like many of my comments above! :D
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:20 pm

Wahlberg face.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:17 pm

dreiser wrote:Wahlberg face.
Do you prefer 2001 to 1968?
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If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:19 pm

A Comparison of The Time Machine (1960) and The Time Machine (2002):

Image The Producers
The 1960 version was produced by George Pal although he was not credited as producer on the film.

Modern films often have such a long list of producers; I hope I selected the correct ones. The 2002 version was produced by Laurie MacDonald (executive producer), and her husband Walter F. Parkes (producer). Parkes has been producer on 43 films, many of which you have heard, many which you've likely seen. His wife has been producer on 29 films. There is quite an overlap between their filmographies, as you might expect. They often put together a package with writer, DP and other crew members that functions almost like an ensemble crew, the way you'd have an ensemble cast. I guess it's good to work with those you know.

A Comparison of The Time Machine (1960) and The Time Machine (2002):

Image Distribution
The 1960 version was released for distribution through Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer
The 2002 version was released by Dreamworks LLC and Warner Brothers Pictures


Image Release Dates
According to IMDb, the 1960 version was released for exhibition on 17 August 1960

The 2002 remake was released on 8 March 2002, in the United States. Box Office Mojo reports business figures for this title.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:29 pm

A Comparison of Romeo & Juliet (1968) and Romeo+Juliet (1996):

Image The Producers
The 1968 version was produced by John Brabourne (producer), Richard B. Goodwin (associate producer), and Anthony Havelock-Allan (producer)

The 1996 version was produced by Jill Bilcock (associate producer), Martin Brown (co-producer), Baz Luhrmann (producer), Catherine Martin (associate producer), and Gabriella Martinelli (producer).

A Comparison of Romeo & Juliet (1968) and Romeo+Juliet (1996):

Image Distribution

The 1968 version was produced by BHE Films, and released through Paramount Pictures Corporation.
The 1996 version was produced by Bazmark Films and released through 20th Century Fox Film Corporation.

Image Release Dates
According to IMDb, the 1968 version was released for exhibition on 8 October 1968 in the USA.

The 1996 remake was released on 1 November 1996, in Canada, the United States, Puerto Rico, Australia and South Korea. Everywhere else it was released in 1997 or 1998.

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:35 pm

A Comparison of Lord of the Flies (1963) and Lord of the Flies (1990):

Image The Producers
The 1963 version was produced by Lewis M. Allen with Gerald Feil, and Al Hein
The 1990 version was also produced by Lewis M. Allen (producer) and seven others

A Comparison of Lord of the Flies (1963) and Lord of the Flies (1990):

Image Distribution
The 1963 version was produced by Lord of the Flies Company, Two Arts Limited, and released through Continental Distributing in the USA. The initial British release was through British Lion Film Corporation.

The 1990 version was produced by Castle Rock Entertainment, Jack's Camp, Nelson Entertainment and Signal Hill Entertainment and released through Columbia Pictures

Image Release Dates
According to IMDb, the 1963 version was released for exhibition on 13 August 1963
The 1990 remake was released on 16 March 1990, in the United States.
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And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:49 am

YouTookMyName wrote: Do you prefer 2001 to 1968?
Nah, 1968 is a true classic. I think 2001 is alright, however.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:55 am

dreiser wrote:
Nah, 1968 is a true classic. I think 2001 is alright, however.
I know my review didn't sound like I agree, but I do. The odd thing is that when I watch a film that "doesn't cut it" according to my opinion after the first viewing, on the second viewing it will often "improve" in my estimation. Either that or it seems worse.

This one hasn't gotten "worse" over the years, nor has it gotten "better," and I was trying to explore the aspects of the film that somehow managed to disappoint me. That's why I pointed out that I don't think it's terrible, and I don't think it sucks by any means. But I hoped for more than it can give me. Apparently. :)

This time I was noticing some things that might be the cause of disappointment, such as the hyperactive General Thade, and so forth. I'll put it this way: I'm glad I bought a copy, but I'm also glad it wasn't Blu-ray (much more money).
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:15 am

YouTookMyName wrote: I know my review didn't sound like I agree, but I do. The odd thing is that when I watch a film that "doesn't cut it" according to my opinion after the first viewing, on the second viewing it will often "improve" in my estimation. Either that or it seems worse.

This one hasn't gotten "worse" over the years, nor has it gotten "better," and I was trying to explore the aspects of the film that somehow managed to disappoint me. That's why I pointed out that I don't think it's terrible, and I don't think it sucks by any means. But I hoped for more than it can give me. Apparently. :)

This time I was noticing some things that might be the cause of disappointment, such as the hyperactive General Thade, and so forth. I'll put it this way: I'm glad I bought a copy, but I'm also glad it wasn't Blu-ray (much more money).
There's nostalgia working on my end as well. As a kid, I loved the whole concept of a "civilized" ape community where man is seen as inferior.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:19 am

A Comparison of Lord of the Flies (1963) and Lord of the Flies (1990)
The Choir or the Gang

Image

In both the book and first version of the film Jack Merridew, the leader of the choir (and someone slightly older than Ralph in the book) is jealous of Ralph’s leadership position. In the second movie Jack is merely another cadet, but the jealousy angle remains.

In the novel it is not clear (at least in my memory of the novel) whether Jack comprehends the role Piggy plays in Ralph’s ability to do what he does. In neither movie is Piggy quite as bright as he is in the book. In all three cases Piggy is quite the sensible boy, and thinks things through. Ralph spends almost as much of his time in thought as Piggy, but is most often prompted into thought by the other boy. Ralph is also more easily distracted by the fear of the Beast or the Monster, than Piggy is. He verbally abuses Piggy in the book to a greater extent than he does in either movie.

During the election of a chief, the book has Ralph win because he is taller than Jack. The earlier movie has Ralph win by a show-of-hands vote, but Jack does not respond. He does not appear happy with the results, having offered himself to be Chief because at the school he is the Chief Chorister and Head Boy (the primary representative of the student body to the Faculty, and one with very high academic scores). In the ’63 version he is defeated and takes it glumly. The remake has Ralph win because “Ralph’s the Colonel,” or the highest-ranking cadet in the group. Jack takes this cheerfully, or seems to. But he later rebels because his character is, after all, someone sent to military school for having taken a joy ride in a neighbor’s car.

The comparison leads to noticing an interesting difference: the 1963 Jack Merridew is an exemplary boy who goes bad with the bloodlust of the hunt, while the 1990 Jack Merridew has a back-story that he is already a “bad seed.” He is not seduced by the wild, but is already “on the wrong track” when he arrives on the island. Are the film-makers insinuating that it is Jack’s individual flaw that leads him into savagery, rather than something that all boys his age might possess beneath a veneer of civilization? Ponder the different cultures that spawned these two films, and you will see a change in the social idea of where “badness” comes from. Who is “right”? The men of the 1963 era, or those of the 1990 era?

And if you ponder that question you might discover what I find so intriguing about comparing original films with their remakes. It isn’t all about the films alone.
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If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Gort » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:25 am

Kid'O ¡en espace!: could you share in this thread the thoughts you have about the 1990 Lord of the Flies remake? We'd like to read it.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:15 pm

Captain Leo Davidson is there for the wind blowing through the trees to frighten him into...oops, wrong movie.
I laughed. :D

"Hello. My name is Elliot Moore. I'm just going to talk in a very positive manner, giving off good vibes. We're just here to use the bathroom, and we're just going to leave. I hope that's okay. "
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:20 pm

Hank wrote:
I laughed. :D

"Hello. My name is Elliot Moore. I'm just going to talk in a very positive manner, giving off good vibes. We're just here to use the bathroom, and we're just going to leave. I hope that's okay. "
I've never see The Happening, but I've read many words about it. One thing I read was..."Then we cut to a shot of the wind blowing tree leaves around. Ooooooh!" Followed by a sarcasm smilie.

Later I learned that the beastie in the film is a virus. Well, how the heck are you going to show the threat of an airborne virus? Is it possible that the director let people actually think while watching his film? Maybe. I liked his first two hits, didn't dislike the next two, didn't hate the next one after those and haven't seen the rest.

But if you're actually quoting the film there, then it's mighty strange, this movie. Mighty strange.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:27 pm

Gort wrote:Kid'O ¡en espace!: could you share in this thread the thoughts you have about the 1990 Lord of the Flies remake? We'd like to read it.
Apparently he won't, so here it is:
kiddo in space wrote: I forgot to tell you. I watched the 90's version of Lord of the Flies. So, so good.
Gort wrote: I don't recall whether you've read the book.

If you get a chance to read the novel (in English, or a Spanish translation) tell me which film you think most closely captures the mood of the novel. I already say in one of the essays which one I think does it...although I don't think I've posted that essay yet!

I have two more essays to post, and two cast listings, and I'll be done with the first three rematches.
kiddo in space wrote: I've read in english. I think the 90's version captured the mood a lot better, even if it took some freedom with certain aspects, those didn't hurt, they actually I liked some of them and helped translate the feeling of the book a lot better.
Gort wrote:Amazing! That's what I think. :up: :up: So did my older son when he watched both films after reading the novel in his junior year (homeschool).
kiddo in space wrote: Cool. I think it's one of the best book to film adaptations I've seen in termos of capturing the feel of the book. I'm one of those who thinks that a film adaptation doesn't need to be a literal translation of what th book says into images, but the film must capture what the author was trying to create, the mood, the feeling, the essence of the book with the lenguage of cinema.

I was very pleased.
kiddo in space wrote:I should add random punctuations to my name. It will be cooler.

kiddo? in.space!
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:37 pm

YouTookMyName wrote: I've never see The Happening, but I've read many words about it. One thing I read was..."Then we cut to a shot of the wind blowing tree leaves around. Ooooooh!" Followed by a sarcasm smilie.

Later I learned that the beastie in the film is a virus. Well, how the heck are you going to show the threat of an airborne virus? Is it possible that the director let people actually think while watching his film? Maybe. I liked his first two hits, didn't dislike the next two, didn't hate the next one after those and haven't seen the rest.

But if you're actually quoting the film there, then it's mighty strange, this movie. Mighty strange.
That is a quote... and he is talking to a houseplant.

Unbreakable is my favorite, I believe. I own it and his first film. I think I would really like The Village if it was just a love story... I think he messed that one up with the last half hour or so... but, overall I'd agree with you on your rankings: Good, Hmm, Ehh... then lost interest.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Mod Hip » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:09 pm

It's very, very, true - The Happening is awful.

Random cut to this post's aftermath (following the siege of a window-headbutting old lady): I don't know why it happened, I don't know when it will happen again... all I know is that it happened.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by kiddo in space » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:57 pm

Haha! Oh Gort, you always make me laugh :D

Also, I'll share my thoughts here...soon.
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