YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Discuss anything you want.
Post Reply
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:14 pm

A Comparison of Planet of the Apes (1968) and Planet of the Apes (2001)
The First Time Ever I Saw Your Apes...
Image

1968, Memphis, Tennessee. I saw Planet of the Apes because I was fascinated by a write-up in LOOK magazine about the makeup. The film was released on 3 April 1968. Three days later, 2001: a Space Odyssey was released. In those days movies didn't get "wide releases." A certain number of prints were made, and these were circulated among markets. Thus, Apes made it to Memphis before Odyssey. The ape faces I saw in Planet of the Apes were the best I had ever seen in a film. Incredible, I thought as I watched actors perform. Amazing, I thought as I saw their "ape" faces register emotion. Thus, for a scant couple of weeks or so, Planet of the Apes was my all-time favorite movie, replacing The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms. And then I saw 2001: a Space Odyssey, and the shine went off the makeup effort that won an Oscar. When I heard about the honorary Oscar created for the foam rubber ape faces in Planet, while ignoring the superior technical feat in 2001, I muttered something to myself.

Image
It was a long time before a movie bearing the title Planet of the Apes equalled the Kubrickian faux ape faces. Tim Burton had years of advances in special makeup techniques that he could bring to bear for his re-imagining of the 1968 movie. The first night I saw 2001: a Space Odyssey, it quickly and with great might replaced the original Apes movie as all-time favorite. I noted with droll irony that both films feature apes, and that the makeup in Kubrick's film is thousands of times more convincing than that in the film that became a franchise.

Image
But the apes in Planet of the Apes had and still have a charm that Kubrick's apes lack. Space Odyssey is stunning and cerebral, while Apes is only accidentally cerebral (according to the man who was the head of Fox film studio at the time). I remember reading with fascination how Kubrick's casting people selected dancers who were very slender, so that the ape suits they had to inhabit wouldn't cause them to appear to be fat apes. The 2001 ape masks were capable of convincing lip movement, although the same mechanism would never have worked for the speaking apes of Planet. The skin of the faces and hands in 2001 looks more like ape skin than that of the foam-rubber-clad planetary apes.

Much obvious thought went into the makeup for Burton's re-imagining. Part of the thinking may have been intended to avoid the goofy-looking muzzles that the 1968 actors were encumbered by. The 2001 remake cleverly dodges that part of the makeup issue by using the actors' own mouths as the apes' mouths. This takes some getting used to as we watch, but once the brain accepts these creatures as "apes" it works fairly well. Perhaps by the fictional year of the Marky Mark flick there could have been some natural selection that would have made ape faces look...you get the idea.

So, in my brief lifetime my response to the 1968 ape makeup has gone from, "Coooool! Wow, that looks almost real," to "Nice try," to, "Gee that was a bigger failure than I noticed back then." I still prefer the ape makeup in 2001: a Space Odyssey. But Burton's special makeup effects rival those used in the Kubrick masterpiece. In fact, they are convincing enough that I thought, at first, that Burton had CGI'd each and every one of them!

Image
Go back using these buttons.ImageImageImageImageImageImage
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Hank
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:17 am
Contact:

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:25 pm

I think that your distinction between the apes of 2001 and PotA is interesting... however, certainly not the first or the last time the Academy has caused someone to mutter not-so-nice grumblings.

I would argue that PotA created far greater characters with it's makeup that not only set them apart visually from each other, but also gave the actors better freedom of facial expression than in 2001. In many ways, the apes designs were going for two completely different approaches. Kubrick was deconstructing the ape form... a break down of evolution to before a time of murder. Whereas the feat in Apes was to show a further developmental stage, one where they were intellectual thinkers on their own right... far beyond learning to use a bone as a tool for slaughter. Also, I think the 'twist' might play an important role as well. The apes in PotA can also easily serve as a whole new race on a whole new planet in the mind of the viewer. If they look too much of this world throughout, the end might not have had the same impact (this I can only speculate, as I've never been able to watch PotA having not known the end). While I agree, 2001 creates far better "apes" for the time period, I don't think they serve the same purpose. If the 2001 apes were used in PotA, I think their design would be flawed because their purpose wouldn't be served.
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:07 pm

Hank wrote: I would argue that PotA created far greater characters with it's makeup that not only set them apart visually from each other, but also gave the actors better freedom of facial expression than in 2001. In many ways, the apes designs were going for two completely different approaches. Kubrick was deconstructing the ape form... a break down of evolution to before a time of murder. Whereas the feat in Apes was to show a further developmental stage, one where they were intellectual thinkers on their own right... far beyond learning to use a bone as a tool for slaughter. Also, I think the 'twist' might play an important role as well. The apes in PotA can also easily serve as a whole new race on a whole new planet in the mind of the viewer. If they look too much of this world throughout, the end might not have had the same impact (this I can only speculate, as I've never been able to watch PotA having not known the end). While I agree, 2001 creates far better "apes" for the time period, I don't think they serve the same purpose. If the 2001 apes were used in PotA, I think their design would be flawed because their purpose wouldn't be served.
I agree. As I said in the essay, the mechanism used for the Kubrickian proto-humans wouldn't have worked for apes that talked. And it's true that I was blown away by the first Apes film in 1968 and its foam-mask ape makeup. It still holds up as well as the rest of the film does for me. Except for the fact that there is usually no lip-sync, the appearance is pretty good. And if you watch closely, you'll see that some of the actors (Hunter for one) managed to get some lip-sync from her mask. Perhaps it was better made than McDowalls' makeup appliances.

The makeup for the 2001 remake is better, provides lip-sync, but doesn't always result in an ape-like appearance from certain angles. Still, as you point out, the 2001 film is set on a different planet (no way Burton could ahve recycled the "surprise" ending of the Heston film!) and evolution could have taken apes a distance away form their original appearances when they first arrived on the planet-with-no-name.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Derninan
Posts: 7547
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:24 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Derninan » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:10 pm

I keep confusing a lot of the discussion here, referencing 2001, the Kubrick masterpiece, and the 2001 "re-imagining" of PotA. Anyway...

The original Apes features makeup that still works, for me. It's dated and obvious, but there's a...kitsch factor, I guess, that I enjoy. The Kubrick film features makeup that still impresses me, to this day. Gort, I remember you commenting on my cinema viewing of 2001 last year, and I know you watched it countless times in theaters back in the day. I was amazed, seeing the film blown up to such dimensions, how believable the apes were in the prologue. That Stanley sure knew what he was doing, eh?

The makeup in Burton's version is one of the few bright spots of the film, for me.
User avatar
Hank
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:17 am
Contact:

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:16 pm

Yeah, I should've been a bit more clear when referencing ASO, it was early this morning and I wanted to respond... In hindsight, not the clearest post I've ever made.

I think that each film uses make-up well. But for completely different reasons. Burton's make-up (while a bright spot, I agree) is probably my least favorite of the three, and probably for the reason Gort gave about it changing from angle to angle. The original was consistently 'kitsch' (to use Derninan's term, since I agree and it still holds up for me as well) throughout and it served it's purpose well. And ASO had the clearest vision for the make-up's purpose in the film.
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:28 am

Derninan wrote:I keep confusing a lot of the discussion here, referencing 2001, the Kubrick masterpiece, and the 2001 "re-imagining" of PotA. Anyway...

The original Apes features makeup that still works, for me. It's dated and obvious, but there's a...kitsch factor, I guess, that I enjoy. The Kubrick film features makeup that still impresses me, to this day. Gort, I remember you commenting on my cinema viewing of 2001 last year, and I know you watched it countless times in theaters back in the day. I was amazed, seeing the film blown up to such dimensions, how believable the apes were in the prologue. That Stanley sure knew what he was doing, eh?

The makeup in Burton's version is one of the few bright spots of the film, for me.
You think you're confused. Try naming the graphics! I got a "file already exists" error message once!

That line in my essay, "But the apes in Planet of the Apes had and still have a charm that Kubrick's apes lack," means pretty much what you said. Likely, it's because Kubrick's proto-humans were not intended to be charming, but to be "realistic." The Planet apes were charming precisely because we were desired to like them as characters...as "people," in fact. I didn't think of it as "kitsch," but that's probably a good description.
Hank wrote:I think that each film uses make-up well. But for completely different reasons. Burton's make-up (while a bright spot, I agree) is probably my least favorite of the three, and probably for the reason Gort gave about it changing from angle to angle. The original was consistently 'kitsch' (to use Derninan's term, since I agree and it still holds up for me as well) throughout and it served it's purpose well. And ASO had the clearest vision for the make-up's purpose in the film.
Did y'all notice that the gorillas are the most convincingly made-up in both Planet versions? If not, then it must just be me thinking that. ;)

Also, about the 2001 apes: I still love the slow-motion shot of one of the proto-humans drooling while it smashes a tapir skeleton. Was that planned? Or was it serendipity? (I wish I knew where my book about 2001 has gotten off to. I'd love to re-read the sections about the proto-human makeup again.) Once, I noticed the upper lip rubber creasing in a sort of too-straight line, of the kind that real flesh wouldn't make, and it bothered me for a viewing or two; then I forgave the makers of the muzzles and went back to simply enjoying how completely non-human those actors seem to be in the Kubrickian costumes.

This happens to me each time I watch the '68 Planet film. At first I can't stan' it! and then I get used to the charm.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Hank
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:17 am
Contact:

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:28 pm

Have you (or are you planning to) see the Rise of the Apes?

I'm mildly interested in seeing it but I'll probably wait for dvd... someone could probably convince me otherwise though.
User avatar
Derninan
Posts: 7547
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:24 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Derninan » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:06 pm

"Kitsch" actually isn't the best term for it, probably, but I think we're all on the same page. :D

Hank, Rise was pretty good. Aside from one or two groan-inducing references to the 1968 film, it's an enjoyable, well-told story. You've heard it before, I'm sure, but Andy Serkis alone makes the film worth watching.
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:01 am

Hank wrote:Have you (or are you planning to) see the Rise of the Apes?

I'm mildly interested in seeing it but I'll probably wait for dvd... someone could probably convince me otherwise though.
I don't know if it's still playing here. I may be forced to wait for the DVD! My friends who go see movies a lot saw it the first day it was out and told me I'd enjoy it. But i haven't been to a theater on my own since then, and they've already seen it.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Hank
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:17 am
Contact:

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:11 am

We should go see it together.
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:26 am

Hank wrote:We should go see it together.
Lexington is about halfway between Harrisburg and the Hills.

We have a number of choices. :D Only problem will be getting there, for me. I kind of have to work. :(
Cinemark Fayette Mall
3800 Mall Road, Lexington

Wed, Thu: 11:55am, 2:25, 4:55, 7:35, 10:15
Fri, Sat, Sun, Mon: 12:15, 2:45, 5:15, 7:45, 10:15
Cinemark Movies 10 Woodhill
425 Codell Dr., Lexington


Hamburg Pavilion Stadium 16
(Regal) 1949 Star Shoot Pkwy, Lexington

Wed, Thu: 1:40, 4:40, 7:35, 10:00
Fri, Sat: 1:40, 4:40, 7:40, 10:20
Sun, Mon: 1:40, 4:40, 7:40
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:37 am

Well, this is unexpected (probably only temporary, as well). But Epi posted in the 88 takes thread that Photobucket doesn't work! I popped over here and looked in this thread, and sure enough all my stills are dropped.

For the time being, I hope. And, as my images are not all missing as of the time I posted this, I assume some software upgrade is happening. I hope it's better than the software upgrade at RottenTomatoes Forums was. Heh heh.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Quite-Gone Genie
Posts: 22840
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:36 pm

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Quite-Gone Genie » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:39 am

I can still see them, possibly because they're in my browser cache.
"So, you see, he was condemned to walk in darkness a quadrillion kilometres (we've adopted the metric system, you know)..."
██████████████████████████████████████████The Devil, The Brothers Karamazov
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:43 am

Quite-Gone Genie wrote:I can still see them, possibly because they're in my browser cache.
Maybe, but they came back for me and I clear out the cache (and everything else) whenever I quite Firefox.

They all appear to be showing now. But thanks for checking this out for me, Alex!
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:54 pm

In an effort to move ahead with this exercise I'm going to do something different. I am about to post the text-only blocks for my reviews of the 1922 and 1979 Nosferatu films. As I am able, I will add links and graphics.

I'm recovering from a cold and I managed to get the text all done, but I really don't feel like opening Photoshop and playing with it for the next several hours. :(
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:55 pm

Nosferatu, eine Symphonie des Grauens (1922) dir. F. W. Murnau

Image
IMDb link RT-link

Year: 1922 Director: F. W. Murnau Cast: Max Shreck, as Graf Orlok Length: 94 min. (originally) Monochrome/Silent

It is difficult to review a film that has multiple versions. Which do you write about? Since 1922, Murnau's Nosferatu has been re-cut, had a number of different musical soundtracks added to it, has appeared with or without the initial toning of its monochromatic shots. Some versions are longer and some shorter. Apparently, the original was 94 minutes long, but only 88 minutes of it remain in the longest extant versions. From one version to another the intertitles may be different, not only in English translation, but some versions include intertitles that others do not have!

Image
First of all, everyone knows by now that this film is not supposed to exist in modern times. Mrs Bram Stoker got a European Judge to rule that all copies of the film must be destroyed. And of course (snicker) they were! Except a few here and there. And that was enough to allow you and me to see Murnau's symphony of horrors. The path that Nosferatu the film has trekked is every bit as odd as the path the characters in the film follow.

Murnau takes his story seriously. There are aspects of the film that might seem strangely comic to denizens of Century number 21, but F.W.'s intention was to chill your flesh with eeriness. First of all, Count Orlok doesn't look suave the way Bela Lugosi's Dracula would nine years later. He doesn't seem like someone to whom you would walk up and speak at a dinner party peopled by strangers. Indeed, Graf Orlok is right out of your most troubling nightmare. That is well enough, he was supposed to be like that even in 1922. But look at Ellen Hutter/Lucy Harker, played by Greta Schroeder: she seems almost to be a man in drag. This is not the case, but you could hardly cast a more masculine-looking actress in the role (I apologize to her great-grandchildren for this observation). The man playing Hutter/Harker, Gustav von Wagenheim is a bit clownish in the opening scenes. Is this on purpose, or was Murnau attempting to make Hutter appealingly jovial and fresh-faced as a way to get his audiences to sympathize with the young man? It is hard to tell when looking back across a 90-year chasm. Once on his journey to Transylvania, he is not so comical. Certainly, Knoek/Renfield, the real-estate agent who later dines on flies and rats, is meant to be a distortion of Humanity from the start. Of course, I'm using Murnau's character names and Stoker's. As a commentator for Channel Four in the UK pointed out in a documentary I saw about this film, there are versions that use the original character names (the ones that Murnau devised to dodge coyright issues) and other versions use the names of characters from Stoker's Dracula.

Image
Although the details of presentation have changed (after all, the film went into public domain as soon as its existence was ruled to be illegal) the core of the presentation is the same from version to version. Hutter, or Harker is sent by Knoek or Renfield to the castle of Graf Orlok, or Count Dracula who wants to buy a property in Wisborg or Bremen. The real estate agent suggests a house just across the street from Hutter's house. Hutter travels to the land of shadows, Transylvania, to secure the Count's signature to close the purchase. On his way he stops at a mountain inn in the Carpathians, and causes a stir when he tells everyone gathered in the dining hall that he is going to see Graf Orlok! No one will take him all the way there. But he doesn't have to walk, because as soon as the local coachman drives his horses away in fear, a peculiarly swift coach arrives with a creepy-looking driver. Murnau makes the coach move swiftly by undercranking the camera. To him that was creepy, eerie, rather than funny.

Image
Which brings up special effects. The predominant special effect in this film is Max Shreck's makeup. Orlok is ghostly pale, and vampire's piercing teeth are not in the place of canines as in the later vampire films. Orlok features two pointed, razor-sharp incisors in place of regular incisors. His hands are outfitted with sabres in place of fingernails, which give his hands a truly alien appearance, and make them look strangely huge. For the movements that Murnau asks of Shreck, rather stylized, these hands create an odd focal point, heightening the weirdness of the character Orlok. Max Shreck was very skinny, and that makes Orlock's bald-head, pointy ears, and dark-socketed eyes look all the more disturbing. As one commentator said, "Orlock is the thing of nightmares." Yet to modern eyes he looks a whiff comical. But Murnau expands Orlock's otherwordliness by having him sometimes move as a shadow. And that's a great effect that works even today. At first it is not clear that what we see is not simply Orlock's shadow, that he is not physically there somewhere. But nope. He is supposed to be in the form of a shadow alone. At one point aboard the ill-fated ship that has no name, a sailor sees Orlock rise from his coffin by pivoting upwards on his heels. Once again, a whiff comical to our sensibilities, but if you were to see someone do that...another emotion would reign.

Image
The fact that you never hear an utterance from Orlock increases the uneasiness. A silent film is not told without words, but the words appear on title cards; thus, the spoken words can take on any characteristic your imagination desires. I read somewhere recently that silent films were not called "silent" until sound films came into existence. Until then, they were simply called "films." I find Murnau's film to be creepier than Herzog's remake because there is no spoken language to hear.

Image
Is Nosferatu eine Symphonie des Grauens a masterpiece? Perhaps. Perhaps not quite. But it is certainly a good film. It lent the genre of vampire films at least one trope: the all-important vulnerability of the beasts to direct sunlight. Orlock is the first vampire to be done in by the rising sun.

Although a film entitled Vampire was apparently released in 1913, Nosferatu is universally recognized as the first Dracula movie. I suppose Wikipedia is not the high authority on any matter, but this article gives you a hint of how influential Nosferatu was, by simply making a fictional vampire called Dracula accessible to the masses in a way he never had been before. Is the Wiki article's assertion that "By 2005, Dracula had been the subject of more films than any other fictional character," actually true? I'm not counting in order to find out. I'll just have to leave that to someone else.
Image
Go back using these buttons.ImageImageImageImage
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:03 pm

Nosferatu: Phantom der Nacht and Nosferatu the Vampyr (1979) dir. Werner Herzog

Image
IMDb link RT-link

Year: 1979 Director: Werner Herzog Cast: Klaus Kinski, as Count Dracula Length: 107 min. Color/Mono

F. W. Murnau's original silent film Nosferatu, eine Symphonie des Grauens is such a weird movie that one would be hard-pressed to find a better director for a remake of that title than the King of Weirdness, Werner Herzog. His always adept touch is just perfect for this story. Herzog relishes the strangeness in life (just look at any of his films and you'll see that clearly), so he is able to make both his 1979 versions (German-language and English-language) seem plausible and completely nuts, at the same time.
Image
Herzog is wise about this. He does not simply do a modern remake that adds color and sound but retains every shot of Murnau's original (something that Gus Van Sant did with Hitchcock's Psycho in 1998, to less than critical acceptance). Instead, Herzog recreates the feel of the original film, and mimics certain iconic scenes, while going off in his own direction. In broad strokes, Murnau's Nosferatu is exactly like Herzog's, or rather, Herzog's is like Murnau's. But go below the surface, and you will see a playfulness to Herzog's tale that Murnau's original seems to lack.
Image
One characteristic that Herzog's films share with the Murnau is that both directors are known for being inconsistent. And that is within any single film. They are both wildly experimental filmmakers, willing to try anything, and unashamed to include ideas that might work or might not. For this reason, there are stretches of every Murnau I have seen (not nearly all his films) and stretches within every Herzog film I have seen (once again, not the bulk of his output) where I'm wondering if the filmmaker hit his head on something immovable. I'm sure what I see on the screen made some kind of sense to Murnau or to Herzog, but it makes no sense to me. No worry, it isn't long before cinema-research time is over and we get back to some seriously innovative filmmaking. What to one man, the director, is suspense-building long takes, can be yawn-inducing to certain viewers (this one, for example) but shortly after the slow bits, Herzog will zing in something that threatens to cause the hairs on your spine to stand up.

Image
Herzog retains several set pieces from Murnau: the visit to Renfield's real estate office, the bad feeling that Harker's wife gets about his trip to Count Dracula, Harker's journey to the castle during which he stops at an inn for a meal, doors in Dracula's castle that open and shut by themselves, Dracula backing Harker into a chair where he is expected to visit with the ancient vampire, a scene where Dracula decides to buy the property offered because he sees that Lucy Harker has "a lovely throat," Lucy crying out to Harker who is hundreds of miles away and feeling the bite of the vampire's fangs, the Count walking on the deck of the ill-fated ship, the dead ship full of coffins and rats silently floating into the port of Bremen, and the demise of the vampire due to the silent touch of the sun's morning rays.

Image
Image
But he adds some real gems of his own, among them: the presence of a little boy playing a violin over an unconscious Harker on two occasions, and a cluster of scenes of Bremen in thrall to the plague, with Lucy Harker wandering around the town square. The scenes evoke a feel that possibly reappeared in Werckmeister Harmonies in 2000 because Bela Tarr might have admired Herzog's Bremen town-square scenes. I am not certain of this, but it is plausible.

Image
Not all of Herzog's terror takes place in the darkness. Many of the scenes in Murnau's movie were shot at day, but toned deep blue to represent night time. Herzog simply took the terror and put it into the sunlight, as Alfred Hitchcock was frequently able to do. Thus, the ship sails in with no one alive at the helm, and bumps quietly into the pier with sunrays pouring through the clouds above. Lucy wanders through the plague-crazed Bremeners in full light of day. And Herzog's plague seems to be more a kind of contagious mental illness than the traditional bubonic sort favored by Murnau. Even the final scene where Johnathan Harker is shown to have undergone a bit of a fundamental change, is executed in the morning time, with sunlight coming through the windows.
Image
And in the last scene a vampiric Harker rides across the daytime desert astride a horse!
Herzog borrows from Murnau the creepy Nosferatu makeup, and the general contours of his story, and then embellishes as he sees fit, adding plot twists and oddities that are his own inventions. This is the prerogative of anyone creating a remake. Most of Herzog's additions and edits are well-convceived. The overall result is a good, solid vampire film. Currently, the German-language version is Wil's favorite of the genre. Although it is not my favorite, I recognize the craftmanship and enjoy both the German and English versions that Herzog released in 1979. Frankly, I believe the German version is quite a bit better than the English-language version. It has something to do with the atmosphere created by people totally comfortable with speaking their lines. But I understand that the two versions were shot at the same time on the same sets. If you watch them both you will, in effect, see the same film.

There is something about Herzog's twin remakes that is as vital as the bizarre genius that inhabits Murnau's original Nosferatu film. I am so glad that someone didn't destroy Murnau's film, so that it eventually gave Herzog a chance to perform his own dance to the same, macabre music!
Image
Go back using these buttons.ImageImageImageImage
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Colonel Kurz
Posts: 14847
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:07 pm
Location: Floating in a most peculiar way

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Colonel Kurz » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:14 pm

I didn't even know there was an English language version of Nosferatu.

I like the title you gave to Herzog.
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:19 pm

Colonel Kurz wrote:I didn't even know there was an English language version of Nosferatu.
Due to the way Netflix shipped the discs, one being "short wait", I saw the English language version first. It was more noticeable to me the tiredness with which Kinski plays the Count in English than it was when I listened in German later. Perhaps he doesn't give precisely the same performance? I might buy the 2-disc set simply to be able to A/B compare the scenes from the two versions. But I probably won't.

Since you are fluent in English you should give it a watch. You might notice more differences than I did, because I am no longer fluent in German (yes, I realize that you don't speak German, either). Seeing the German version first, though, gave me an opportunity to watch without English subtitles...an interesting experience for a mostly mono-lingual American.
Colonel Kurz wrote:I like the title you gave to Herzog.
I can only hope that if he somehow stumbles across this thread that he likes it, too.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Colonel Kurz
Posts: 14847
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:07 pm
Location: Floating in a most peculiar way

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Colonel Kurz » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:32 pm

YouTookMyName wrote:Since you are fluent in English you should give it a watch. You might notice more differences than I did, because I am no longer fluent in German (yes, I realize that you don't speak German, either). Seeing the German version first, though, gave me an opportunity to watch without English subtitles...an interesting experience for a mostly mono-lingual American.
I'd have to order one from the US though, since all the versions here are just the German, and I've got this perfectly fine German version already... maybe when I've got more time and money than I do now. :P
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:48 pm

Colonel Kurz wrote:I'd have to order one from the US though, since all the versions here are just the German, and I've got this perfectly fine German version already... maybe when I've got more time and money than I do now. :P
You've seen the better-done of the two.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
kiddo in space
Posts: 13023
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:42 pm

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by kiddo in space » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:51 pm

There's a release in the USA that has both versions of Nosferatu (German and English), I rented that one here, but I only had the chance to watch the german version.
User avatar
Hank
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:17 am
Contact:

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:16 pm

Having recently seen the earlier of these two films, I still need to see the Herzog... kiddo demanded it to be done.

Speaking of kiddo, looking good with a new AV... another red face, but spiffy nontheless. :up:
User avatar
kiddo in space
Posts: 13023
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:42 pm

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by kiddo in space » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:19 pm

Hank wrote:Having recently seen the earlier of these two films, I still need to see the Herzog... kiddo demanded it to be done.

Speaking of kiddo, looking good with a new AV... another red face, but spiffy nontheless. :up:
Faces became my permanent av theme since I joined here and, wihtout noticing, started using close ups of faces as my avatars.
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:37 pm

Hank wrote:Having recently seen the earlier of these two films, I still need to see the Herzog... kiddo demanded it to be done.

Speaking of kiddo, looking good with a new AV... another red face, but spiffy nontheless. :up:
Because you watched the Murnau recently, you'll be able to see the similarities and differences pretty easily. I hadn't seen the Murnau in years when I watched teh Herzog films. Then, I watched the Murnau four times trying to get frame grabs from it that were acceptable...and the similarities and differences between the original and the remakes were apparent to me. That's why I make that prediction about you. :D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:38 pm

kiddo in space wrote:
Faces became my permanent av theme since I joined here and, wihtout noticing, started using close ups of faces as my avatars.
Is that woman wearing a mask?
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Gort
Posts: 9068
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:50 pm
Location: Reducing some planet to a burned out cinder.

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Gort » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:55 pm

Only a select few know that these frill-less posts are here. Because they don't appear in sigs yet.

Once they are in sigs several will come and read, but not write. Hee hee.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:57 pm

Gort wrote:Only a select few know that these frill-less posts are here. Because they don't appear in sigs yet.

Once they are in sigs several will come and read, but not write. Hee hee.
Yeah. True. The views counters are really not much use to me over here, like they were at RT. If I look in here once as Gort, and then once as YTMN, it counts two views, which is correct, but I think Genie and I figured out at RT it's a discrete viewer that gets counted. Not a generic viewer.

That was probably incorrect, but if I went into my own thread at RT it did not increment the views.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Quite-Gone Genie
Posts: 22840
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:36 pm

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Quite-Gone Genie » Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:11 pm

The RT view counter has always been wonky at best. It doesn't count refreshes and only counts when a link to a thread is clicked.
"So, you see, he was condemned to walk in darkness a quadrillion kilometres (we've adopted the metric system, you know)..."
██████████████████████████████████████████The Devil, The Brothers Karamazov
User avatar
Hank
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:17 am
Contact:

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:46 pm

On the topic of the film, you reference the possible comical nature of it to our sensibilities... however (not that I'm denying that possibility) I didn't find the eerie coach or Orlok's actions comical at all through my first viewing. Perhaps it was my mood, perhaps it was I took the year it was made into consideration while watching it...

Looking back now after I've read your thoughts, I kind of wonder why I didn't react differently than I did.
User avatar
Gort
Posts: 9068
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:50 pm
Location: Reducing some planet to a burned out cinder.

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Gort » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:43 pm

Hank wrote:On the topic of the film, you reference the possible comical nature of it to our sensibilities... however (not that I'm denying that possibility) I didn't find the eerie coach or Orlok's actions comical at all through my first viewing. Perhaps it was my mood, perhaps it was I took the year it was made into consideration while watching it...

Looking back now after I've read your thoughts, I kind of wonder why I didn't react differently than I did.
I'll just stay in my regular guise to answer this one.

I think your reaction to the speeded-up sections was to not see them as comical, because Murnau was clever in using the effect the way he did. I never saw it as funny, either, on first viewing, but I was subsequently aware that many times a similar shot might have been seen as funny. I think if the shot of the coach arriving with Orlok at the reins had not been at night it would have been funnier, and may have rolled over into the comedy column. Also, isn't there some old saying about horror being only a tiny distance from humor? If there isn't, there should be.

There is a lot in the 1922 film that has the potential to be funny, but because of Murnau's steady hand, each case comes across as eerie, as he apparently intended. Hmmm. If Max Shreck had worn the same makeup as Lugosi did in 1931, in this film, that might have tipped it into comedy, too.

I just had the thought that a feathered T-Rex would look potentially comical, but because of what it would be (a vicious beast with feathers) we would not be likely to break out into peals of laughter. As close to the edge of funny as the Nosferatu makeup comes, it still remains creepy rather than laughable.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Hank
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:17 am
Contact:

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:03 pm

Perfectly said.


And I hope that someday it is proven beyond a doubt that the T-rex actually was a feathered beast.
User avatar
JediMoonShyne
Posts: 22425
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:26 am
Location: Cittàgazze
Contact:

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by JediMoonShyne » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:03 am

Have been meaning to watch that Herzog.
“Bisogna essere molto forti per amare la solitudine.” - P.P. Pasolini

WCoF I II IIIL'EtàL'Eau한국88ShadowsBerlin thırd ISOLATIONVistaVision
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:28 pm

JediMoonShyne wrote:Have been meaning to watch that Herzog.
Herzog's films always seem to be tedious to watch, for me. Nosferatu was not tedious. A nice surprise, since I had set myself the goal of watching it at least 3 times to get what I need for this thread. Still, there are those moments I mentioned in the review where I was scratching my head for a stretch.

There might be some takes you could have made one of the 88, if you had seen it in time. As I recall, the longest would be much shorter than the running times you and Trip have now reached. But I'm pretty sure that certain ones extend beyond 37 seconds. Whether they are terribly interesting or innovative...that would be the limiting factor. :D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Colonel Kurz
Posts: 14847
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:07 pm
Location: Floating in a most peculiar way

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Colonel Kurz » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:30 pm

I've never found anything Herzog has done to be tedious. Well, Scream of Stone. But even that has that fantastically weird opening scene of the world championship rock climbing in a mostly empty footbal stadium.
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:30 pm

Colonel Kurz wrote:I've never found anything Herzog has done to be tedious. Well, Scream of Stone. But even that has that fantastically weird opening scene of the world championship rock climbing in a mostly empty footbal stadium.
Honestly, the tedium comes form how creative he is, and how experimental. I get tired sometimes of his willingness to include certain scenes that don't quite work, just because he likes how most of it goes. or other similar "tricks" of his. Love him! But that doesn't keep me from sometimes bearing tedium for the sake of seeing what he'll come up with next.

I'm glad you don't find him tedious. It must just be a personal thing. The first Herzog I ever saw was, of course, Aguirre der Zorn Gottes, and I found it fascinating, until he kept it going a bit too long. And then a bit too longer. And then...it just ended, as I recall. :D I've seen it only once, a long time ago. Among the major fascinations for me was realizing that I was listening to a German-speaking actor pretending to be a Spanish-speaking explorer. usually, Spaniard characters speak English in movies, over here in the States!
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Colonel Kurz
Posts: 14847
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:07 pm
Location: Floating in a most peculiar way

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Colonel Kurz » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:38 pm

There's even more layers to that. Aguirre was shot in English because that's the only language everybody on set could speak. So you're watching a German dub (not that English version isn't also a dub, by the way) of a German actor pretending to be Spanish in South America. But then, it goes even further because Herzog felt Kinski wanted too much money for the dubbing after shooting the film, and having hardly any budget left anyway he hired someone else entirely to dub Kinski. So you're hearing a different German pretending to be another German pretending to be a Spaniard.

The ending, by the way, is one of my favorite scenes in cinema. I don't think it just ends, it ends in the culmination of all the madness that preceded it, with Aguirre alone on his raft, aimlessly floating on a river towards no goal at all anymore.

Also, I guess I overstated a bit that I found no tedium in his work, it's just that whenever there are certain uninteresting scenes, there is always something incredibly fascinating as well to balance it out, if not tip the scales into Herzogs favor by a large margin. Though I must admit I don't care much for Fata Morgana except that Herzog's commentary track on the DVD is good.
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:43 pm

Colonel Kurz wrote:There's even more layers to that. Aguirre was shot in English because that's the only language everybody on set could speak. So you're watching a German dub (not that English version isn't also a dub, by the way) of a German actor pretending to be Spanish in South America. But then, it goes even further because Herzog felt Kinski wanted too much money for the dubbing after shooting the film, and having hardly any budget left anyway he hired someone else entirely to dub Kinski. So you're hearing a different German pretending to be another German pretending to be a Spaniard.

The ending, by the way, is one of my favorite scenes in cinema. Also, I guess I overstated a bit that I found no tedium in his work, it's just that whenever there are certain uninteresting scenes, there is always something incredibly fascinating as well to balance it out, if not tip the scales into Herzogs favor by a large margin. Though I must admit I don't care much for Fata Morgana except that Herzog's commentary track on the DVD is good.
I've heard the story about the dubbing before, but the version I recorded from PBS television in the US is subtitled. So I missed out on a layer or two. :( I guess I only got the English lip movements, but didn't notice them because I was busy reading subtitles!

Somewhere I have a list of the Herzog films I've seen, but I don't know how to quickly locate it. It isn't a very long list. He is quite prolific. I had a friend and colleague who used to go see any Herzog that was showing in a Memphis theater. Herzog's most recent played here, but I didn't get to go see it. his accent when he speaks English is rather fascinating, as you and I have discussed before.

Perhaps sometime we corries can hear what you sound like speaking English.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Colonel Kurz
Posts: 14847
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:07 pm
Location: Floating in a most peculiar way

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Colonel Kurz » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:50 pm

I wish I still had the audiofile of my telephone interview with Herzog.
User avatar
Gort
Posts: 9068
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:50 pm
Location: Reducing some planet to a burned out cinder.

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Gort » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:35 pm

Colonel Kurz wrote:I wish I still had the audiofile of my telephone interview with Herzog.
When I thought about it later, I understood what you were saying about the version of Aguirre that I saw. Yeah, you're correct, except I was so busy reading subtitles that I would not have noticed that the lip-motions were for English.

And, as YTMN, I got some graphics in the Nosferatu reviews. More to come, of course, but I made a start.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Hank
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:17 am
Contact:

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:44 pm

Graphics look nice :D
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:48 am

Hank wrote:Graphics look nice :D
Thanks. And they sort of buffer the wall 'o text effect.

I realized this morning that I forgot to do teh Like and Don't Like sections for Nosferatu. But, what-evar.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Derninan
Posts: 7547
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:24 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Derninan » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:41 am

What I Like: the "LIKE" and "DON'T LIKE" sections for each review posted here.

What I Don't Like: that they're missing in the Nosferatu reviews.
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:17 pm

Derninan wrote:What I Like: the "LIKE" and "DON'T LIKE" sections for each review posted here.

What I Don't Like: that they're missing in the Nosferatu reviews.
Think I should go back and add them?
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Derninan
Posts: 7547
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:24 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Derninan » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:28 pm

YouTookMyName wrote: Think I should go back and add them?
No no, just giving you a hard time while mentioning the fact that I really do enjoy that section.
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:34 pm

I see.

We should invite Gort and Blevo to a game of bridge.

Except that Gort and I don't know how to play bridge.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Colonel Kurz
Posts: 14847
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:07 pm
Location: Floating in a most peculiar way

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Colonel Kurz » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:36 pm

You should invite Wil and Rdog too.
User avatar
Gort
Posts: 9068
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:50 pm
Location: Reducing some planet to a burned out cinder.

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Gort » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:37 pm

YouTookMyName wrote: Except that Gort and I don't know how to play bridge.
That's for damn sure.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
YouTookMyName
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:53 am

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:38 pm

Colonel Kurz wrote:You should invite Wil and Rdog too.
Then we'd have to play canasta or pinochle, or something else than can have more players.

If you start an alias, we'll invite you, as well.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
User avatar
Gort
Posts: 9068
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:50 pm
Location: Reducing some planet to a burned out cinder.

Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Gort » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:40 pm

Jedi has done it again.

All the mas has to do is breathe and he gets 3 pages of replies.

Nice thread, though. As are all his threads.

Uhm, YTMN, you can stay and visit if you want to...uhm, actually, you can't because I'm taking you to dinner with me.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


The Future Unreels
Post Reply