YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Gort » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:58 pm

Well, I reckon it must be a hooray moment for ... you.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:19 pm

Oh good, now I can just borrow them from one of you guys.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:30 pm

Hank wrote:Oh good, now I can just borrow them from one of you guys.
I laughed. :D I'm a two-man library all on my own.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Gort » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:31 pm

Hank wrote:Oh good, now I can just borrow them from one of you guys.
I'll tell you right now, the KINO restoration of the Murnau Nosferatu is a thing of intense beauty. It kind of makes me want to go back and re-grab stills for the thread.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:05 am

In that picture... is that your hands sandwiching the films together, Gort? And then you blurred the perimeter to emphasize the case spines?

Odd observation, I suppose... especially if I'm wrong.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:55 am

Hank wrote:In that picture... is that your hands sandwiching the films together, Gort? And then you blurred the perimeter to emphasize the case spines?

Odd observation, I suppose... especially if I'm wrong.
Excellent observation, Hank! Yes, those are my hands, but they are out of focus because I scanned the spines, rather than making a traditional photo. The original scan is lusciously detailed and at 300 dpi. Too big to put on here, and what would be the point? :D
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:41 pm

Trip wrote:are you sure the problems aren't UNDER the surface

lolol
Whoa, Trip, I just now found this. It's several months old, but I see your point, and I like the joke. Of course the probs with the 2008 Day are below the surface as well as on the surface. It is riddled with cinematic less-than-perfection.

I'll probably wallow in all this as I continue writing the essays for the Rematch.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:38 pm

Today I got two sets of thumbnails in for the essay broker posts:
Nosferatu, and
The Day the Earth Stood Still.

Sadly, no new essays for either, but at least the topics are ready for essays to be posted.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by ribbon » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:40 am

Just wanted to say, again, how happy it makes me to see you put so much effort into this. :) Really, really great. I'm reading, but bad at thread contribution. :oops:
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:47 pm

ribbon wrote:Just wanted to say, again, how happy it makes me to see you put so much effort into this. :) Really, really great. I'm reading, but bad at thread contribution. :oops:
Thank you for reading, Ribs.

Today I'm trying to get some of those niggly tech posts up for the films. The one below this took me the better part of 3 hours to research and get proof-read for posting. I hope I didn't miss anything.

And it's information that few people will care about, but I do, and this thread is my hobby, after all. :D
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I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:47 pm

A Comparison of Planet of the Apes (1968) and Planet of the Apes (2001)

Image The Producers
The 1968 version of the story had two producers, and two production companies, although Twentieth Century Fox is not credited on the film, according to IMDb. Thus, APJAC PRODUCTIONS, INC. gets the screen credit for the motion picture. The individuals who are credited with producer titles are Mort Abrahams, and Arthur P. Jacobs. Abrahams had a long pedigree of Science Fiction and dramatic television, beginning in 1950 with Tom Corbett, Space Cadett. He received associate producer credit on the original Apes movie. He was involved with Beneath the Planet of the Apes, in 1970. Abrahams didn't stick with that series, the way the producer of the first Apes film did. Arthur P. Jacobs made his career by producing Dr. Doolittle, which he did alongside Abrahams. But when their next venture, Planet of the Apes became successful, Jacobs parlayed his 1963 film rights purchase of the Pierre Boulle novel into a 5-film streak (which also led to a TV series, but he was not associated with the series).


In 2001, with changes in the hierarchy of film production at studios, there were more producers for Burton's remake. There were three production companies actually involved in creating the film, though: Twentieth Century Fox, The Zanuck Company, and Tim Burton Productions. From among the three, Ross Fanger, and Katterli Frauenfelder are credited as associate producers. Frauenfelder has been associated with a number of Burton's films since Planet of the Apes. The Apes film was her first assignment as associate producer, but she is also known for work as second-unit director and assistant director on a long list of movies. Ross Fanger is better-known for Marvel Super hero films since Apes, but had helped produce only one film before it. Iain Smith, who is credited as the London line producer for the film, had worked as producer on 12 other films before Apes. If you look at Smith's filmography at IMDb you will recognize most of the titles he has helped produce.

Ralph Winter is credited as executive producer. He has held the job of producer for 40 titles, as I write this. I didn't check to see if he was executive producer on most or all of them. You can do that, if you wish! Burton's Apes flick falls about halfway down Winter's current resumé. Richard D. Zanuck has the well-known surname of his father. His producer credits include only 43 titles (I expected more than that), but he continues to work, even though he was born in December 1934. Since Planet of the Apes Zanuck has been involved in a large number of Tim Burton's ventures.

A Comparison of Planet of the Apes (1968) and Planet of the Apes (2001)
Image Distribution
The 1968 film was sent to theaters, but not all across the country at once. Prints were struck by, and allocation to local theaters was under the control of Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation. Distribution world wide remained with various arms of Twentieth Century Fox.

In 2001 the remake received a wide release. This was orchestrated by 20th Century Fox Film Corporation in the United States. But worldwide, the picture looks a bit different, according to the listing of Company Credits on IMDb. Still, if you read down the list of distributors, most are subsidiaries of Twentieth Century Fox.

A Comparison of Planet of the Apes (1968) and Planet of the Apes (2001)
Image Release Dates
The 1968 film Planet of the Apes was released to New York theaters on 8 February of that year. On 27 March 1968, the film premiered in Los Angeles. In April of that year the film went into broader release, becoming available for general exhibition in the U.S. on 3 April 1968. By November of that year it had made it to Turkey, where it was titled Maymunlar Cehennemi. Remember that Turkish "C" is pronounced as English "J". Japan, France and Russia saw re-releases of the film between 1999 and 2006.

On 27 July 2001 the Tim Burton Apes film was released in the United States. The worldwide distribution release dates are available at IMDb.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:32 pm

YouTookMyName wrote: I've never seen any of those!

I learned about Edward de Vere from a book called The 100: a ranking of the most influential persons in history by Michael H. Hart. In the 1992 edition, which I have, Hart carefully details the de Vere theory. He doesn't try to disprove the authorship of the Stratfordian, all he does is provide 14 pages of evidence for de Vere, and a page or so showing why "it is unlikely" that the Stratfordian was the author.

It's Chapter 31 in his book. Since you've seen the other theorist's ideas on TV, it might be of interest to read this. If not, you'd possibly be interested in which 100 people he selected. He even shows how his list changed between the 1978 edition (which contained the classical tale of Wm. Shakespeare of Stratford on Avon) and the 1992 edition. Certainly no one would agree with all 100 selections, and no one would totally agree with his rankings of those in the list, but it's interesting to read simply for the biographies. The man did a lot of research to write his book. And this is while doing his day job as a physicist and astronomer for NASA.
dreiser wrote:"Several" is probably a stretch, but at least three docs on PBS. Plus whatever I've read online and such.

That sounds like a cool book. I'll have to check it out at the library if they have a copy.

Speaking of Shakespeare, Gort, do you have any appreciation texts that you favor? Oddly enough, science fiction writer extraordinare Isaac Asimov is the author of the finest tome covering all of The Bard's work I've ever come across. Beautiful stuff.
Did your library have the book, dreiser? Likely, you haven't had time to look for it.

I noticed recently that the Emmerich movie Anonymous is soon to be released. I can't imagine that Roland Emmerich is the guy to publicize this idea more broadly. :roll: Although, if most people think those who speculate about authorship other than Wm. Shakespere for the literary works of Shakespeare, are nutjobs, then Emmerich probably is the go to guy.

This should lead to some lively discussions in high school and college classrooms over the coming months.

I doubt that I'll see this in the theater. But, if I do, it might make an interesting sidebar to the Romeo & Juliet Rematch. If I hadn't filled up my plate so fully, I'd be putting in links to films that go along with the theme of that film, such as Shakespeare in Love. :shifty:
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I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:44 pm

A Comparison of Planet of the Apes (1968) and Planet of the Apes (2001)

Image Internet Movie Database Pages

The IMDb page for the 1968 Franklin Schaffner production of Planet of the Apes
The IMDb page for the 2001 Tim Burton production of Planet of the Apes

Image RottenTomatoes Reviews
Rotten Tomatoes has a page about the 1968 production
Tomatometer is 89%, which is more or less in line with the film's status as a classic film. User rating is at 80% approval.
RT also has a page about the 2001 remake.
The Tomatometer is at 45%. User rating runs only 36% approval! I guess my low opinion isn't that unusual.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:20 pm

A Comparison of The Maltese Falcon (1931), Satan Met a Lady (1936) & The Maltese Falcon (1941)

Image Internet Movie Database Pages

The IMDb page for the 1931 Roy Del Ruth production of The Maltese Falcon
The IMDb page for the 1936 William Dieterle production of Satan Met a Lady
The IMDb page for the 1941 John Huston production of The Maltese Falcon

Image RottenTomatoes Reviews
Rotten Tomatoes has a page about the 1931 production
Tomatometer is 67%, with a small number of reviews. User rating is at 47% approval.
RT also has a page about the 1936 remake.
The Tomatometer is empty due to lack of pro reviews. User rating runs 31% approval.
RT also has a page about the 1941 remake.
The Tomatometer is at an unsurpising 100%. User rating runs only 90% approval!
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:55 pm

A Comparison of The Picture of Dorian Gray (1945) & Dorian Gray (2009)

Image Internet Movie Database Pages

The IMDb page for the 1945 Albert Lewin production of The Picture of Dorian Gray
The IMDb page for the 2009 Oliver Parker production of Dorian Gray

Image RottenTomatoes Reviews
Rotten Tomatoes has a page about the 1945 production
Tomatometer is 89%, but the user rating is at 76% approval. This may be a reflection of the sensibilities of younger viewers, who might find the film timid.
RT also has a page about the 2009 remake.
The Tomatometer is at 42%. User rating also runs at 42% approval! It's unusual to see a match. Perhaps there is a hint in two comments I pulled from the review on the page:
Dave Calhoun at Time Out wrote: :fresh: These are interesting ideas, but they would work better if there was more decadence on show earlier on to nail Gray's corruption.
Barbara Goslawski of Box Office Magazine wrote: :rotten: By leaving nothing up to the imagination, Parker destroys the very essence of the film.
You see, people cannot even agree on what they want to see. Apparently, more viewers are satisfied with the timidity of the 1945 presentation than with the more honest slant of the 2009 film.

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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:08 pm

A Comparison of The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951) and The Day the Earth Stood Still (2008)

Image Internet Movie Database Pages

The IMDb page for the 1951 Robert Wise production of The Day the Earth Stood Still
The IMDb page for the 2008 Scott Derrickson production of The Day the Earth Stood Still

Image RottenTomatoes Reviews
Rotten Tomatoes has a page about the 1951 production
Tomatometer is 94%, which is no doubt due to the film's status as a classic film. User rating is at 86% approval.
RT also has a page about the 2008 remake.
The Tomatometer is at 21%. User rating runs 34% approval. And that's with 274,165 responses. Clearly, if this film was made for those who liked it, it was not made for very many people. The user rating at IMDb is considerably higher, but has only 67,977 votes.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:19 pm

A Comparison of Nosferatu (1922) & Nosferatu (1979)

Image Internet Movie Database Pages

The IMDb page for the 1922 Friederich W. Murnau production of Nosferatu eine Symphonie des Grauens
The IMDb page for the 1979 Werner Herzog production of Nosferatu the Vampyre

Image RottenTomatoes Reviews
Rotten Tomatoes has a page about the 1922 production
Tomatometer is 98% for this classic silent film. User rating is at 86% approval.
RT also has a page about the 1979 remake.
The Tomatometer is at 94%. User rating runs 80% approval.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:28 pm

Okay, at least I have easy-to-find links to the IMDb pages if I need 'em.

If you find yourself roaming about and learning things while following these links, please drop us a line here in the thread. :D

*knows that this is not likely to happen*
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:41 pm

*drops a line*


*looks at the ground*

*considers making it a squiggly line*

*now considers turning this particular line into a square*

*contemplates the moment a line becomes a shape*
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:29 am

Hank wrote:*drops a line*


*looks at the ground*

*considers making it a squiggly line*

*now considers turning this particular line into a square*

*contemplates the moment a line becomes a shape*
A line becomes a shape the instant it curves. Even a little. :D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Gort » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:30 am

You could have at least complimented the man on his cleverness.

Because there is a lot of that in his post.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:40 am

YouTookMyName wrote: A line becomes a shape the instant it curves. Even a little. :D
Depends on which hat you have on. If it's a math hat. Sure. If it's an artistic hat... Nope. :P
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:46 am

Hank wrote: Depends on which hat you have on. If it's a math hat. Sure. If it's an artistic hat... Nope. :P
At what point does an artistic line become a shape?
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:53 am

YouTookMyName wrote: At what point does an artistic line become a shape?
At whatever point the artist feels like it. We're lazy like that.


You know... the whole outside the box thing.
A Not Needed Over-elaborate Edit That Serves No Real Point: See, in the art world there is such a thing as a zig zag line, a dotted line, a curvy line, loopy lines and even spiral lines...so a line takes on a different meaning than in the math world.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Gort » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:54 pm

Hank wrote: A Not Needed Over-elaborate Edit That Serves No Real Point: See, in the art world there is such a thing as a zig zag line, a dotted line, a curvy line, loopy lines and even spiral lines...so a line takes on a different meaning than in the math world.
Okay. But if a line can be all those descriptions and remain a line...then a line can never become a shape.

However, a line can enclose a shape.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
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If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:11 pm

A Comparison of Nosferatu (1922) & Nosferatu (1979)

Image The Directors
Image
The 1922 version in this Rematch was directed by F. W. Murnau. Murnau had not solo-directed a feature film before. His total output at the time of his accidental death in 1931 had reached only about 1/3 that of Werner Herzog. But, Nosferatu eine Symphonie des Grauens would eventually take a special place in horror movie history. Born in 1888, Murnau saw the dawn of film early in his life. But he didn't become interested in directing films until after he had served as a combat pilot in World War I. He was assistant director to Max Reinhardt in 1919. And in 1928, following critical success with Sunrise: a Song of Two Humans, Murnau said of his unusual and creative photographic style, "I think films of the future will use more and more of these 'camera angles', or, as I prefer to call them, these 'dramatic angles'. They help photograph thought." He died in an automobile crash, when, according to IMDb, his 14-year old valet was driving him through Santa Barbara, California, on 11 March, 1931. His final film, Tabu: a Story of the South Seas was set to premiere at the time. Even with a small output, Murnau was voted by Entertainment Weekly to be the 33rd Greatest Director of all time.

The 1979 versions were directed by Werner Herzog. Herzog was already known for his off-beat style and obsessive focus on the side of living that is now called "gritty." He had released several movies, among them Aguirre, the Wrath of God (Aguirre der Zorn Gottes) which seemingly set new records for difficulties in production. The 1982 film Fitzcarraldo would follow the Nosferatu films by three years, but it would include the manual transport of a riverboat across the mountains of South America. And Herzog would actually undertake to do this in order to make the film. Always the showman, always focused on the bizarre aspects of any story he deigns to tell, his efforts on Fitzcarraldo would win Herzog the Best Director honors at Cannes. In a typical move, Werner Herzog decided to produce simultaneous English- and German-language versions of his Nosferatu film, giving them slightly different titles in the process. Nosferatu the Vampyre is the English version, with all the actors delivering their lines in English. Nosferatu: Phantom der Nacht is exactly the same film, with almost exactly the same shots, but with the actors delivering their lines in German. But, it is not exactly a reconstruction of Murnau's film. Herzog applies his own particular flair to every aspect of the 1979 movie recreations. Because of Murnau's nightmarish vision, and Herzog's patent love of weirdness, what he produced is called by many people, "my favorite vampire movie." Lately, Herzog has focused on documentary films. He has directed 63 titles, according to IMDb. (Nosferatu counts as only one of those.)
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Philosophe rouge » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:23 pm

Herzog considered Murnau's film the greatest German film of all time. He has very interesting reasons for remaking it, looking forward to the comparison.
Everything around me is evaporating. My whole life, my memories, my imagination and its contents, my personality - it's all evaporating. I continuously feel that I was someone else, that I felt something else, that I thought something else. What I'm attending here is a show with another set. And the show I'm attending is myself. Fernando Pessoa

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:04 pm

Philosophe rouge wrote:Herzog considered Murnau's film the greatest German film of all time. He has very interesting reasons for remaking it, looking forward to the comparison.
I have bought the KINO restoration DVDs, and I plan to listen to Herzog's commentary before I write my essays!
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
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If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:04 pm

A Comparison of The Maltese Falcon (1931), Satan Met a Lady (1936) & The Maltese Falcon (1941)

Image The Directors
Image
The 1931 version was directed by Roy Del Ruth. Del Ruth started out in journalism before turning to gag-writing for Mack Sennet (according to the IMDb biography). He directed 116 titles in his career. If you look at the IMDb ratings for the films, they often fall in the middle of the range in user votes. By most reports, Del Ruth was a technically competent director within the studio system, but did not do well when he struck out on his own. For example, he is known for creating "the worst sports biography film ever made," The Babe Ruth Story. Having not seen that film, I cannot attest to its hideousness. But I can attest that the 1931 film based on The Maltese Falcon is technically entertaining, and not as bad as Del Ruth's overall reputation would lead you to believe. Late in his career, Del Ruth directed The Alligator People, which was paired in release with The Return of the Fly. Of note, perhaps: his son, Thomas Del Ruth, is a cinematographer. Credited with 72 titles as DP, he was involved with The West Wing for 107 episodes.

The 1936 version was directed by William Dieterle. Born Wilhelm Dieterle this man joined a traveling theater company as a teenager to escape the poverty of his family (where he was the youngest of 9 siblings). At age 30 he became a motion picture director. He was obviously not without merit as a film director. Of course, directing a Best Picture winner doesn't mean anything in real life. In Germany, he, like F.W. Murnau became associated with Max Reinhardt, at first as an actor. By 1930 he was directing films in the U.S. Among his well-known titles is the 1939 film of The Hunchback of Notre Dame starring Charles Laughton as Quasimodo. But like most directors he has some misses. Among them is a 1954 vintage movie that I have suffered through, called Elephant Walk. Also, IMDb claims that he is an uncredited director of Duel in the Sun, and that the movie has 6 directors!

The 1941 version was directed by John Huston. Huston was born into a theatrical family. The film under consideration in the Rematch was his first directorial effort, but it was followed by 46 others. Huston is likely best known for this film, though. He directed The Treasure of the Sierra Madre in 1948. And, he was at the helm of the 1982 motion picture version of Annie. His 47 films cover many genres.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:51 pm

A Comparison of Planet of the Apes (1968) and Planet of the Apes (2001)

Image The Directors
Image
The 1968 film was directed by Franklin Schaffner. Schaffner had a long career helming film productions. For 40 years he created filmed entertainment for television, and then for movie theaters. In 1963 he finished his second theatrical film, The Stripper, starring Joanne Woodward as...a stripper. A year later he directed The Best Man, written by Gore Vidal, and examining the cut-throat world of political endorsements. Having not gotten enough momentum to move entirely to Hollywood, he returned to television for three more projects. In 1967 he directed Yul Brynner and Britt Ekland in The Double Man before accepting the challenge of directing the first film made from Pierre Boulle's novel, Planet of the Apes. After the success of the Apes film, Schaffner directed Patton, Nicholas and Alexandra, Papillon, Islands in the Stream, and The Boys from Brazil, plus others through the years. His career continued through his death in 1989.

The 2001 version was directed by Tim Burton. Burton began his feature film career with Pee Wee's Big Adventure. Over the course of the following 15 years he became known primarily for films that were eerily humorous, if nothing else. At least 7 of the films he directed in those years were the talk of the nation for a while. Burton also became a darling of the awards industry. And then, to my surprise, if no one else's, he decided to remake Schaffner's 1968 movie. From the start, this film was marketed as "a re-imagining" rather than a remake. When I eventually saw the movie, I was rather surprised that the usual "Burton touches" seemed to be missing. The touches are there, after all, and one of the Apes essays will discuss that aspect of the movie. Even when Burton doesn't direct, his stamp on a film makes it "a Tim Burton Film," in the public mind; for example, the film that Henry Selick directed from an idea by Burton, The Nightmare before Christams was marketed with Burton's name above the title. Thus, one could claim that Burton is one of those directors who has become a star in his own right, and whose name guarantees an audience, even when the critics are not wowed.

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What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:29 pm

A Comparison of Planet of the Apes (1968) and Planet of the Apes (2001)
Evidence of Tim Burton in the 2001 Film
Image

I recently wrote in a thread on the corrierino that the 2001 Planet of the Apes is the least Burton-like of Tim Burton's films. Although I still believe that to be true, as I watched the film a second, third and fourth time for this Rematch, it became apparent that several touches in the film are definite Burtonisms.

Where I see Burton's Touch
For one thing, the apes act so very much more like apes than they did in the 1968 film. General Thade leaps about, vocalizing like the chimp he is. On first viewing and even on second viewing this was rather daunting. The charcterizations also walk a fine line between over-blown and reserved, as in most other Burton films. Think of Ed Wood in the film that bears his name, and you'll see what I mean. The character is played for his larger-than-life weirdness, yet seems to be a human being at the same time; less of a caricature than first meets the eye. Yet, always comic, like the later Ichabod Crane character. This may partly be due to Johnny Depp's acting prowess, but it is what Burton wants in his characters, otherwise, why continue to use Depp? There is none of this in the character Captain Leo Davidson. He is unimaginative, afraid, uncurious. The only Burton touch is that he has occasional intuitive insights. He is unusually single-minded for a Burton lead, although by the time Sweeny Todd stepped onto the Burton sound stage, he was also single-minded. I haven't seen anything later from Burton.

The Sweetness is Gone
I think what made me "miss" the Burtonisms in Planet of the Apes, is the lack of sweetness that pervades his other spectacularly eerie films. In this movie, there is no sweetness. Although there are the emotional tags that you always have in Burton films, the characters are not naive to any extent. The world of the film is dark and brutal. The fearsome inversion of "natural order" seems relentless.

This film, perhaps, marks a change in Burton's style. It has the same nearly overpowering cynicism that would propel Sweeny Todd six years later. The film that immediately followed the apes movie, Big Fish saw a half-hearted re-emergence of the naive aspect of Burton's earlier works, right up through Sleepy Hollow. There was always unnecessary roughness, even in Edward Scissorhands, but there are also always moments of release, and space to chuckle at the goings on. Plus, the world is not uniformly dark in any of the films prior to Apes, even though Sleepy Hollow trends in that direction.

Therefore, I think what may be left out of Planet of the Apes is Burton's prior adept handling of ironic juxtapositions of darkness with a cheerful envelope (think about the neighborhood into which Edward Scissorhands wanders when he comes down from the hilltop). The overt "fun" is gone from apes, unless we count Thade's boisterous boundings as intended to bring about the same response. As I said, the beautiful vistas return in Big Fish only to disappear in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory which may be disliked because of its lack of fun, even with children making up half the cast. I can only assume that a masterful director such as Burton would have made a conscious choice to omit this angle from his films. After all, he may have been trying to clip away the vestiges of the overall ambiance of Pee Wee's Big Adventure. Yet, even that film has its overarching darkness, including men playing little boys. Creep factor=100% for me, there!

That ironic sweetness is one of the aspects of "a Tim Burton Film" that buoyed me up through Beetlejuice and Ed Wood, and it was disappointing to fail to locate some of that in Planet of the Apes. So much so that I couldn't see his other fingerprints at first.

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If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:17 pm

A Comparison of The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951) and The Day the Earth Stood Still (2008)

Image The Directors
Image
The 1951 version was directed by Robert Wise. Known for many films that he directed during 58 years in Hollywood, Robert Wise elected to make his 1951 sci-fi classic in black and white, although he had a budget that would have allowed him to use Technicolor stock. But Wise did not begin his years in Hollywood as a director. In 1941 he was nominated for an Academy Award. The citation?: editor on Citizen Kane. He received three Oscars for Best Picture, although the films are not uniformly adored on this forum. Wise's 42 directorial credits appear on films that range across genres, and styles: The Andromeda Strain; West Side Story; The Sand Pebbles; Run Silent, Run Deep; Blood on the Moon; and The Haunting.

The 2008 remake was directed by Scott Derrickson. Derrickson has directed only 7 titles, one of them a short feature. His first feature was a direct-to-video release, Hellraiser: Inferno. Heard of it? I hadn't. His feature film just before The Day the Earth Stood Still was The Exorcism of Emily Rose, something else I haven't seen. The Wikipedia article on Derrickson will provide other background information. I didn't realize until I researched this blurb that he is mostly known for horror films. That explains a lot of what went wrong with his 2008 remake, in my opinion, and why it veered off into such an odd direction that has no relation to its predecessor.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:48 pm

A Comparison of The Picture of Dorian Gray (1945) & Dorian Gray (2009)

Image The Directors
Image
The 1945 original was directed by Albert Lewin. After joining MGM as a script reader, and becoming a writer and producer, Lewin directed only seven titles, and is probably best known for the Dorian Gray vehicle. He was fired as director from the feature he started prior to The Picture of Dorian Gray, which was a biopic about Madame Curie, the physicist. His film after Dorian Gray, Pandora and the Flying Dutchman might be a decent piece, since it has a 7.0 IMDb user rating. The highest ratings are for the picture we focus on in the Rematch. The Wikipedia article on Lewin sheds slightly more light.

The 2009 version, the 18th known adaptation of this title for film or television, ranging from 1910 to 2009 was directed by Oliver Parker. Parker was born in 1960, and directed a film version of Othello as his freshman work. From Shakespeare, Parker moved to Oscar Wilde, centering his next film on the play An Ideal Husband. In 2002, he tackled The Importance of Being Earnest, so the Dorian Gray picture was a return to Wilde for him. Most of his films have been comedies, making the Dorian Gray film a departure for Parker. His latest effort, as of this posting, is the 2011 film Johnny English Reborn.

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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
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And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:01 pm

A Comparison of The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951) and The Day the Earth Stood Still (2008)

Image The Writers

The 1951 version was written by Edmund H. North, based on a short story called "Farewell to the Master", written by Harry Bates. North's filmography includes some titles that are familiar to me, but might no be to younger readers: Young Man with a Horn, The Outcasts of Poker Flat, Destry, Sink the Bismarck!, and Patton. North is credited at IMDb with the screenplays for 32 titles, including some TV work after 1964. His last screen credit was on the 2008 remake of the title, for the "1951 screenplay." North died in 1990 at age 79. As for Bates, his only screen credit is on the 1951 film as the author of the source short story.

The 2008 version carries credits for David Scarpa and Edmund H. North (for the 1951 screenplay). Scarpa has only two writing credits at IMDb. The other is for a 2001 film called The Last Castle. Edmund North is discussed above. There is no mention of Harry Bates. However, if you look at this comic adaptation of "Farewell to the Master," you will see that among the liberties taken with the story presentation, they did not alter the ship from its rounded shape in the Bates story: "And where was the ship's entrance port? Men who dared go look reported that none could be found. No slightest break or crack marred the perfect smoothness of the ship's curving ovoid surface." Neither did the Scarpa screenplay or the 2008 movie, although they made it a regular sphere. And the story refers to "the time-space traveler," rather than a spaceman. Also, the story includes this line: "It appeared in the blink of an eye. It did not come down from the sky; dozens of witnesses swear to that; it just appeared." So in the story it was not a spacecraft at all. Or at least, not entirely. This is discussed more fully in an essay about the short story. I've only included this note to establish that Scarpa's screenplay did not totally ignore what came before it.

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:23 pm

A Comparison of
The Maltese Falcon (1941), & Citizen Kane (1941)

Landmark Photography, Same Year
Image

These essays are supposed to be about the three films in this Rematch, but in 1941 two young directors put out very innovative-looking movies, and I thought it would be of interest to compare and contrast them. I'm writing about The Maltese Falcon, of course, but also Citizen Kane debuted that same year. The latter is well-known for having been showered with accolades for its unusual lighting and angles. I'll have to admit, the lighting is quite a few notches above that of Falcon in terms of adventurousness. And there are more process shots, more miniatures and the like.

Image

One thing both films share is a ceiling in their sets. I had always thought that Gregg Toland had invented the scrim ceiling and used it before anyone else. But look at the ceilings in Falcon, and you'll realize that it must simply have been an idea whose time had come. Arthur Edeson understood the visual intrigue of showing ceilings instead of having the area above the picture-molding rise an additional five feet beyond where a ceiling would be in real life. One effect that having a ceiling in a film set creates is that of keeping your imagination in the story. You don't see that vast expanse of extra wall during low-angle shots, and drop out of the film to think, "Oh, yeah, I'm watching a movie." Of course that effect is subliminal when a ceiling is present...you never notice it; you stay in the film and let it pull you along.

Image
The thing is, low angle shots with ceilings also create a sense of enclosed atmosphere. This serves the world of Falcon as well as it does Kane's world. In fact, it does more to set the atmosphere to "claustrophobic" in the Spade opus than it does in Kane. Charles Foster Kane's adult world is expansive, opulent, alternately filled with light and shadow. Sam Spade's adult world is small, hemmed in and dark. It is mostly filled with missed hopes, and dreams that are only cheap lead, beneath the scratched-away enamel of deceit. In Toland's world there might be plays of intense backlight against the darkness of a preview room, but in Edeson's world there are uneasy ideas that lurk in the shadows that well-placed lights cast on his all-too-realistic sets.

Image
Certainly, the visions of the young directors, Huston and Welles, largely guided the way each film looks. And for all I know, Edeson and Toland ate lunch together weekly. But I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that the two DP's swapped notes at that time. It seems that the requirements of their directors' visions ran up against the possibilities of new ways to hide lights above what appears to be a solid ceiling.

Finally, it seems to me that Edeson moved his camera more, and in more frantic ways than Toland did. Certainly Gregg Toland's camera seems to slither from place to place, often building a sense of dread. Edeson's camera sometimes pans, tilts, crabs, cranes and dollies at the same break-neck speed with which the anxious Spade travels through his imaginary San Francisco geography. Remember the tracking shot as Spade and Cook come down the hotel corridor toward Gutman's room, and Spade frees the boy of the burdensome guns that he carries in his overcoat? Remember when Spade prepares to mail himself the claim-check from where he's checked the paper-wrapped Maltese Falcon statue, and as he crosses the lobby to a mailbox, the camera quickly follows him? Toland never lets his camera go much faster than a stately velocity; something befitting a powerful newspaperman's self-opinion. But Spade has not enough time and not enough money, and he has to hustle to make ends meet. Edeson hustles the camera right along with him, but rarely draws attention to its motion. The camera movement is not in and of itself the point. The point is to allow us to focus on the hurtling figure of Sam Spade.

Image
There is an additional camera movement of note: a use of the Zoomar lens for a live push in the scene where Spade finds out about the cargo ship La Paloma and its arrival in San Francisco. Undoubtedly, this shot was filmed as a pull, and then printed in reverse to create the push. But if you watch the closeup of the newspaper article, it starts somewhat wide on the arrivals article that Cairo has marked, and it pushes to a much tighter shot of the encircled ship name. I didn't notice that it's a live zoom until the fourth time I watched the movie. But there it was. A zoom, in 1941. If Edeson hadn't used this as a special visual effect would we ever have had the stomach-unsettling zoom-fests of the spaghetti westerns?

Edeson's sense of enclosed sets, of small rooms and cramped spaces may have been entirely John Huston's idea, but it was Edeson's job to make that palpable as well as visible to the audience. And he did a wonderful job of it. The lighting and photography of Van Nest Polglase's sets cause them to become real to us as we watch this implausible story expand beyond easy comprehension. The fact that Citizen Kane looks so great is due to Gregg Toland's skill and his artistic eye. But Falcon, though not recognized by as many, was truly innovative in terms of photography, and to the same extent, although in perhaps a bit different direction. And for that we have Arthur Edeson to thank.

Kane images from http://www.studiodaily.com/blog/?p=6463, http://thegirlwiththewhiteparasol.blogs ... chive.html, http://nzpetesmatteshot.blogspot.com/20 ... es-mr.html, http://www.filmforno.com/?cat=13.

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What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:49 am

Thanks for that entertaining comparison/contrast of the photography in Maltese Falcon vs. Citizen Kane, Gorb.

Personally, my favorite shots are the preliminary one to the interview w/ Kane's opera-singing ex-wife. The camera lens moves up and over the nightclub roof on a rainy night, to peer in on a drunken Susan through an overhead window. Re: MF, I like the effect they get from the elevator as Astor's character looks back at Spade: as the lift descends, it's as if she's encased in bars, which foreshadows her inevitable fate.
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Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by JediMoonShyne » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:36 am

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but have you seen the latest Apes movie?
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:04 am

JediMoonShyne wrote:Not sure if it's been mentioned, but have you seen the latest Apes movie?
Yes, I have.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:08 am

dreiser wrote:Thanks for that entertaining comparison/contrast of the photography in Maltese Falcon vs. Citizen Kane, Gorb.

Personally, my favorite shots are the preliminary one to the interview w/ Kane's opera-singing ex-wife. The camera lens moves up and over the nightclub roof on a rainy night, to peer in on a drunken Susan through an overhead window. Re: MF, I like the effect they get from the elevator as Astor's character looks back at Spade: as the lift descends, it's as if she's encased in bars, which foreshadows her inevitable fate.
Gorb? He's at RT! Ha ha!

I like those shots, also. I saw Kane as a high-schooler and then again as a college film student. I was blown away by the photography. And then I saw Falcon in the same college class, and liked it. The transition from the stage to the roof in Kane, a really intricate process shot with traveling mattes and such, was always really impressive to me. The night I first saw the film I couldn't get to sleep until I finally figured out how it was done.

Yeah, I dig that elevator scene at the end of the '41 Falcon. For the reasons you say. Not a one of the triad of movies made form Hammett's novel use his ending.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by JediMoonShyne » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:30 am

YouTookMyName wrote:Gorb? He's at RT! Ha ha!
I did think of pointing this out, but figured there was perhaps some in joke I was missing.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:21 am

YouTookMyName wrote: Gorb? He's at RT! Ha ha!

I like those shots, also. I saw Kane as a high-schooler and then again as a college film student. I was blown away by the photography. And then I saw Falcon in the same college class, and liked it. The transition from the stage to the roof in Kane, a really intricate process shot with traveling mattes and such, was always really impressive to me. The night I first saw the film I couldn't get to sleep until I finally figured out how it was done.

Yeah, I dig that elevator scene at the end of the '41 Falcon. For the reasons you say. Not a one of the triad of movies made form Hammett's novel use his ending.
No excuse. I don't know why the Gorb moniker came into play here. Anyway, still enjoyed the writeup.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:59 pm

YouTookMyName wrote: There is an additional camera movement of note: a use of the Zoomar lens for a live push in the scene where Spade finds out about the cargo ship La Paloma and its arrival in San Francisco. Undoubtedly, this shot was filmed as a pull, and then printed in reverse to create the push. But if you watch the closeup of the newspaper article, it starts somewhat wide on the arrivals article that Cairo has marked, and it pushes to a much tighter shot of the encircled ship name. I didn't notice that it's a live zoom until the fourth time I watched the movie. But there it was. A zoom, in 1941.
When I watched the first half hour of the 1948 film It's a Wonderful Life the other morning, I noticed that the first time we see the sign for Bailey Building and Loan company, the framing pushes to the sign above the door. It is almost unnoticeable to modern eyes, with the zoom lens being used so frequently since the 1960s, so I wonder what effect it had on viewers in '48.
dreiser wrote:No excuse. I don't know why the Gorb moniker came into play here. Anyway, still enjoyed the writeup.
:D I think I somehow accidentally typed "Gorb" in 2007 when I tried to become "Gort" at Rotten Tomatoes. Look at the typewriter keyboard and that doesn't seem plausible. But I can't think of another reason why I was denied my original choice of usernames. After another unmemorable attempt, YTMN was born!
JMS wrote:I did think of pointing this out, but figured there was perhaps some in joke I was missing.
I do recall that someone over here misread "Gort" as "Gorb" early on. Oddly, I had never thought of that possibility, but when it was pointed out to me I realized that if my left index finger had gone downward instead of upward as I typed in what I thought was the robot's name from TDtESS, I'd have gotten the clever man's name that was already making his humorous way through the thread of RT when I decided to join in April 2007. It's my only explanation. As for inside jokes...do we allow those at the corrie?
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:04 pm

I can't reach my computer from Memphis, so I can't post anything.

But I hereby resolve to continue posting new material in this thread whenever I get a chance.

I admit that I failed to finish the llist of titles that I set out for myself in 2011 when I started the thread...but it was mostly due to getting paying work, which I needed. On balance I think this is a good thing.

I brought The Maltese Falcon set with me, but I don't know whether I'll get to watch it with my friends while I'm here. :D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Colonel Kurz » Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:07 pm

YouTookMyName wrote:but it was mostly due to getting paying work, which I needed.
I think we can forgive you. How's Memphis? What was that business with a guitar being dropped?
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Gort » Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:38 pm

Colonel Kurz wrote:I think we can forgive you. How's Memphis? What was that business with a guitar being dropped?
As you may have noticed, in NYC there is a large glass sphere that drops (actually, it's lowered by a crane, I think) in Times Square on New Year's Eve at a few seconds to midnight, so that it reaches the ground supposedly right at the start of the new year.

Well, the practice has been picked up all across the USA, with one city or another "dropping" some enlarged replica of something of local significance to signal the beginning of the new year. Since Memphis is the home of the Blues, and the location of the Gibson Guitar factory, the city promoters here decided several years back that they would build a giant guitar replica, and move the center of celebration from Overton Square down to Beale Street.

So, these days they erect a 60-foot (approx. 20 m) high vertical track and raise this 3.1 m Gibson guitar replica to the top. Then at about 1 minute to midnight, it begins to slowly slide down the track at one foot per second until it reaches the bottom, at which time everyone grabs someone else and shouts "Happy New Year!" into their face. I watched that here on TV last night.

Oh, here's the same thing from 2010 that I found on YouTube. Obviously from someone who was there and brought along a cell phone or DSLR to make a shaky recording of the event
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Colonel Kurz » Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:42 pm

I thought the dropping would be more dramatic and damaging.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:34 pm

Colonel Kurz wrote:I thought the dropping would be more dramatic and damaging.
A bit of discord with breaking guitar strings, too. All that would have made it a lot more interesting. :D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Colonel Kurz » Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:38 pm

Yeah, with a little feedback thrown in for good measure.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:06 pm

Colonel Kurz wrote:Yeah, with a little feedback thrown in for good measure.
I can envision the giant guitar strings breaking and sweeping through the air above the spectators' heads.

Unless it was a horror movie, and then they wouldn't sweep above everyone's head.

This iMac keyboard looks cool, but it's difficult to type on. :(
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:13 pm

A Comparison of Planet of the Apes (1968) and Planet of the Apes (2001)
Does it Hang Together?
Image

Coherence might be an odd thing to write about concerning a science-fiction film. But it is actually a characteristic of the story-telling that I want to address in this essay. How true to its own internal world is a story, a novel, a play, or a film?
Image
Burton of the Apes is actually structured a bit like an opera. I write this without knowing a lot about operas, but of the four I've seen in full, they seem to be built up of vignettes that are built around songs. In other words, the song is the storytelling element that is most easily identified, and any traditional plot that exists in an opera derives from elements within the song-vignettes that correlate from number (opus, pl. opera) to number. From this correlation (or lack of it) you get coherence within the overall opera. I have seen mere snippets of other operas that in videotaped performances, seem to tend toward grandiose and epic presentations. The Wagner Ring Cycle is apparently like this. And don't forget the immenseness of The Magic Flute as presented in the film Amadeus. Now, if you're paying attention, and I'm sure you are, you're about to argue that the grandiose presentation is more or less the realm of the opera's scenic designer, and I will agree with you. But the music that carries the opera along can have at its core the sound of immensity that gives the scenic designer the hankering to equal that sound with his or her visuals.
Image
I'm pretty sure the same thing happens in a movie. But it's not usually matching a look to a sound so much as the scale of presentation to the idea. Therefore, you can look to more ordinary cues for coherence within the 1968 film, because when it "goes big" it doesn't go as big as Burton. What I'm saying here is that to find coherence in the Schaffner film you need to look at the sets, the costumes, the plot details (because there is a plot in that film and it draws the action forward). Thus, it functions more or less the way a stage drama without music would function. The story thread is carried by what the characters say about one another, and what they do while interacting with one another. Characterization supports the plot, and within this you find the coherence of a stage play. Does it seem real? If so, it is because the characters seem to maintain coherence and consistency throughout the play. Or film. Burton tends to develop scenes with a cast of hundreds, and that widens the scope to mimic the epic proportions of certain operas.

Thus, I think it is only fair to judge the coherence of Burton's movie within its distinct and barely-related vignettes, while searching for coherence within the Schaffner film by looking at its plot. Maybe when I wrote the reviews I was attempting to judge both films with the same yardstick; but perhaps one is Imperial and the other is Metric, so to speak.

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Image
The Schaffner film presents an otherworldly appearance from the time the astronauts crash down into real-life Glen Canyon and watch their spaceship sink beneath the calm waters. The first appearance of an equestrian ape is startling, but seems to fit in some way. And for the rest of the movie George Taylor sees and experiences things that are beyond his experience. His muteness seems plausible. The restoration of his voice, although at a cliched plot moment, seems plausible. So long as you accept that apes can talk and walk upright all the time, and could have built buildings and the like, the world stays consistent. As with all plot-driven stories, this one is very heavily dependent on coincidence. But Schaffner seems to have created a world where apes act just the way you'd expect humans to act, and never "devolve" into what we would think of as ape-like behavior. The politicians are fuzzy politicians with muzzles. The scientists are scientists with furry jowls. The teenagers are rebellious, smaller apes with fuzzy faces. I'd say that Schaffner creates an implausible world, sets up its rules, and doesn't violate them. I'd rate the coherence of the Schaffner film as very high. I'd also guess that this is easy to see by anyone.

Image
Image
The Burton film, being based on vignettes, sets up a pattern of jumping from one area of the ape-world to another. If we find any consistency to the ape culture at all, it is sublimated from the disparate areas of apeland into which our main character is tossed. He never loses his voice, nor are the humans mute in the film. The texture of each vignette is different, so there isn't a consistent picture of what the ape world is like, nor can we establish a particular trait that might be attributed to an ape due to his/her species. But most gorillas are rather violent in thought and action, although they are led by a chimpanzee, General Thade. In Burton's film Thade acts much like a chimpanzee, leaping about in a frenzy when he is excited by power. Although most of the other apes act mostly like people, there are a few others who chest-thump or howl in a way that is, stricly speaking, apelike on earth. So, Burton's coherence is more difficult to find. But consistently changing textures and the degree to which we can figure out the apes from vignette to vignette, is within itself fairly consistent. Whether Burton did this on purpose, I can't say. The reveal at the end of the movie sort of excuses any flaws in the technique,
as the apes and humans are all descendants from those aboard the space station that Leo Davidson left at the beginning of the movie. Thus, they are not earthly humans and apes. Huzzah.
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In both films, when the big reveal occurs at the end, the loose ends are tied together. Perhaps less satisfactorily in the Burton film, depending on what you wanted from it. But in terms of creating a world that is consistent and believable within the context of an implausible motif, I think both directors succeed. I prefer the way in which Schaffner succeeds to the way in which Burton does, but that's merely a personal preference. Schaffner does a better job of tying up loose ends, though, because Burton goes ahead with the ending of Ulysse Mérou's memoir in Boulle's original novel; which in this case feels tacked on for sheer twist-ending value and nothing more. At the last moment Burton tosses coherence out the window for a cheap thrill.
Image
Go back using these buttons.ImageImageImageImageImageImage
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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