YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

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roujin
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by roujin » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:17 am

I set up vlc to take automatic screenshots. cuz i'm lazy.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:51 am

roujin wrote:I set up vlc to take automatic screenshots. cuz i'm lazy.
:D

They prolly wouldn't be the ones I wanted.
dreiser wrote:Wow. I knew this thread was time consuming, but yeesh. I tip my cap to you, sir.
Das wrote:I read this thread pretty frequently, I rarely post in it enough though.I didn't know it was just that time consuming, also, a thousand plus caps per film? That's quite the commitment to quality control! Much respect to you.
Thank you, gents.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Quite-Gone Genie » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:03 am

This entire operation is a monumental... monument of organizational madness!
"So, you see, he was condemned to walk in darkness a quadrillion kilometres (we've adopted the metric system, you know)..."
The Devil, The Brothers Karamazov
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:10 am

Quite-Gone Genie wrote:This entire operation is monumental madness!
:D Fixed.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Gort » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:14 am

Really, though, how many people count how much time they spend on hobbies? If you're building cabinets you want to make them the best you can, tight-fitting, smooth joints, doors with no irregularities or gaps, and so forth. It takes a longer time to do something superbly.

Not that I claim that this is a thread done superbly, but if I just slap-dashed things together it would be worse than it is. If I took more time I could probably carefully edit my remarks down to less space. But that would--uhm--take more time. :shifty:

I don't recall the man's name, but I remember reading that someone historically famous once wrote, "I'm sorry this letter is so long, but I don't have time to write a shorter one."
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Quite-Gone Genie » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:19 am

George Bernard Shaw.
"So, you see, he was condemned to walk in darkness a quadrillion kilometres (we've adopted the metric system, you know)..."
The Devil, The Brothers Karamazov
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:23 am

Quite-Gone Genie wrote:George Bernard Shaw.
Thanks.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Notes from Underground » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:04 am

Gort wrote: I don't recall the man's name, but I remember reading that someone historically famous once wrote, "I'm sorry this letter is so long, but I don't have time to write a shorter one."
Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte.
I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time.

- Blaise Pascal.
"I thought, well, heaven, all that marble and giltwork, sounds a bit middle class. I would prefer something that was, I don't know, carpeted and had skirting boards, things like that." — Alan Moore

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:15 am

Notes from Underground wrote: Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte.
I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time.

- Blaise Pascal.
Oh, wow. See, I was thinking the quotation was attributed to Abraham Lincoln in the source where I first read about it. But I wasn't certain of it, and hoped someone would turn that up to corroborate my recollection. Instead...!!

Perhaps in the old manual-scribing times this was a common notion. At any rate, this seems to be like several famous lines that I've read over the years: If you Google the words, many different people are attributed with it. Or, it could be that both the famous and the obscure were quoting someone, and all actually used the line.

Thanks. :D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Notes from Underground » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:30 am

YouTookMyName wrote: Oh, wow. See, I was thinking the quotation was attributed to Abraham Lincoln in the source where I first read about it. But I wasn't certain of it, and hoped someone would turn that up to corroborate my recollection. Instead...!!

Perhaps in the old manual-scribing times this was a common notion. At any rate, this seems to be like several famous lines that I've read over the years: If you Google the words, many different people are attributed with it. Or, it could be that both the famous and the obscure were quoting someone, and all actually used the line.

Thanks. :D
It was a quote drilled into me by professors for my engineering reports: say it as clearly and succinctly as possible, and edit your work obsessively. I've heard it attributed to the likes of Twain, Voltaire, and Franklin, but as far as I know, it's earliest written form was in Pascal's Lettres provinciales. I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone found an earlier equivalent though.
"I thought, well, heaven, all that marble and giltwork, sounds a bit middle class. I would prefer something that was, I don't know, carpeted and had skirting boards, things like that." — Alan Moore

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:25 pm

Within striking distance, he regards the browser as his friend. He contemplates how he quickly finished two essays in the morning before work, and this evening he can post those with ease. Making the text thumbnails for the essays will not take long, and he can easily finish the final two essays. They are nearly complete in fact, so he contemplates how wonderful it will be to finally de done with all the original eight Rematches.

Yes, it will be a fine thing. And even though the O8 are technically unfinished, his thoughts turn to selection of the next dozen Rematches, and he begins mentally placing them into a calendar grid for production and rollout.

The man has lost his mind.

Totally. ;)
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:38 pm

A Comparison of
The Maltese Falcon (1931), Satan Met a Lady (1936) & The Maltese Falcon (1941)

Hammett's "Joel Cairo"
Image


Spade smiled unnaturally. Then he frowned. The frown was unnatural. He opened his mouth to speak, but the sound of someone's entrance through the corridor door stopped him.
Effie Perine rose and went into the outer office. Spade took off his hat and sat in his chair. The girl returned with an engraved card--Mr. Joel Cairo.
"This guy is queer," she said.
"In with him, then, darling," said Spade.
Mr. Joel Cairo was a small-boned dark man of medium height. His hair was black and smooth and very glossy. His features were Levantine. A square-cut ruby, its sides paralelled by four baguette diamonds, gleamed against the deep green of his cravat. His black coat, tight to narrow shoulders, flared a little over slightly plump hips. His trousers fitted his round legs more snugly than was the current fashion. The uppers of his patent-leather shoes were hidden by fawn spats. He held a black derby hat in a chamois-gloved hand and came towards Spade with short, mincing, bobbing steps. The fragrance of chypre came with him.


I didn't know this, but chypre (pronounced "sheepra") refers to a n. Family of fragrances build on a base consisting of bergamot, oakmoss and labdanum. I've no idea what this would smell like, other than it would smell the way Peter Lorre seems to smell when he makes his entrance in The Maltese Falcon of 1941. Lorre is perfectly cast as Joel Cairo, I think. One website has a more enlarged explanation of the fragrance, and gives the derivation of the word. Why is all this important? Because as far as I recall, it is the only description of a character in the novel that includes a fragrance.

The 1931 film was the next-to-last of Otto Matieson's acting career. He had appeared in 33 silent films between 1920 and 1928, making the initial transition to sound with the lost film Napoleon's Barber in 1928. His last 11 film appearances included a couple more silent films, and nine early talking pictures. He died at age 38 in 1932, or he might have had a longer career in talkies. His take on "Dr. Joel Cairo" is quite adept. He isn't as close to the novellic description as Peter Lorre is, though.

There isn't a character named Cairo in the middle movie. The role of the Cairo-counterpart is played by Arthur Treacher; he is renamed Anthony Travers, and he's an Englishman. He has a comical habit of breaking and entering, ravaging a person's office or apartment, and then returning later to apologize for what he has done.

Peter Lorre was already a star when he became Mr. Joel Cairo for John Huston. He had done an eight film turn as Mr. Moto between 1937 and 1939. Today he is well-known for his role as Hans Beckert in Fritz Lang's M, but he might not have won international acclaim for that role. No doubt it put him on the casting map among those who produced films in Germany and the USA, though. But Hans Beckert was Lorre's third film role; Joel Cairo was his 39th. By the time of his death in 1964, Lorre had appeared in 113 titles. He had the good fortune to hook up with the horror film industry, and with his wide-set eyes and ghostly voice he was able to become a superstar of that genre.

The character of Joel Cairo in the novel is a bit of a comic foil, and his sexual orientation is a stereotypical part of that role. It was 1930, and the idea of withholding ethnic or other kinds of derogatory humor hadn't been injected into the American conscience. Still, Hammett makes his "queer" fellow a formidable adversary. In the films, Cairo's prissiness and other aspects that Hammet described are all subdued. As I wrote above, I think Lorre's interpretation of the character is the most on-the-money. Not only does he evoke the Joel Cairo of the novel, he creates a marvelous character in his own right for the 1941 movie.

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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:41 pm

A Comparison of
The Maltese Falcon (1931), Satan Met a Lady (1936) & The Maltese Falcon (1941)

Hammett's "Samuel Spade"
Image

In the novel The Maltese Falcon Dashiell Hammett describes Sam Spade looking "rather pleasantly like a blond satan." I think this is where the middle film gets its title Satan Met a Lady. Not a one of the actors who played Sam Spade or Ted Shane was blond, though.

Ricardo Cortez (who preceeded Warren William as Sam Spade, but would succeed him as a filmic Perry Mason) got first crack at defining the role of Sam Spade. No doubt he had input from the director of the 1931 adaptation of Dashiell Hammett's story. But he had appeared in 44 film roles beforehand, and I imagine that he had read the novel very carefully. He and the screenwriters chose to emphasize Spade's womanizing beyond the degree to which the original source establishes that aspect of the detective's character. But this was a pre-code film, and womanizers were popular. He was 31 years old when he played Sam Spade, perhaps slightly younger than Hammett describes the detective. Cortez slightly overdoes the v-shaped smile described in the novel, but it helps Spade's image as "slimy" which works well, because he says at the end of the novel and the movie that he may not be as crooked as his reputation says he is.

Warren William is a blast as Ted Shane. Forget Sam Spade while you watch, just let him be a fun-loving detective who is disdained by the authorities to the point of being run out of town on a rail(road) at the beginning of the film. (Be aware that I like that pun so well that I used it in another essay in this Rematch. I apologize.) Later in his career, William would star in a series of five films as Michael Clayton, aka The Lone Wolf. Warren William played Shane when he was 42 years old; he only lived to be 53. Between 1922 and 1947 he appeared in 65 film roles. But there is a long gap between 1923's Plunder and 1931's Honor of the Family. Williams's career was made in pre-code talkies. He continued to play rakes of one sort or another. Men whose morals could easily be questioned. This despite a four-film turn as Perry Mason between 1934 and 1936.

As for the 1941 role as Sam Spade, it was so overwhelmingly loved by the cinema audiences of the day that it came to define actor Humphrey Bogart. To a large extent he spent the rest of his life playing variations of the Sam Spade character that he had created for that film. As I thought about this essay, I realized that there is an effect that would have been behind the scenes as far as any movie is concerned, but it would have influenced the on-screen portrayals of the character: when the first film debuted in 1931, Samuel Spade was a new character from a recent hit novel. By the time the 1936 remake premiered, perhaps Sam Spade was a more popular character (having appeared in three short stories published in 1932), and that might have had something to do with Ted Shane appearing in the comedy version of the story, rather than Sam Spade! I imagine that if this is true, Sam Spade was an even more beloved character by 1941, and that would explain why Ricardo Cortez's take on the guy is more ribald and cheeky than Humphrey Bogart's incarnation. In an Amazon review of Nightmare Town Stories mirasreviews writes:
Hammett's second most famous detective, Sam Spade, hero of his novel "The Maltese Falcon", is featured in 3 stories: "A Man Called Spade", "Too Many Have Lived", and "They can only Hang You Once". These are the only short stories Hammett wrote about Spade, who was in some ways the flip side of the Continental Op. At first glance, the two detectives have more in common that not, but where the Op represents the way detectives of the era really were, Sam Spade represents the way they wanted to be.
Because it was an aspirational time, maybe a lot of people wanted to be more like Sam Spade, and know when to bend or break the rules, but to be guided overall by good a moral compass.

I'll conclude this essay with a excerpt from the page that describes Spade getting ready to go to the scene of Miles Archer's murder. He is getting dressed, and Hammett describes it this way:
He picked up the pigskin and nickel lighter that had fallen to the floor, manipulated it, and with the cigarette burning in a corner of his mouth stood up. He took off his pajamas. The smooth thickness of his arms, legs, and body, the sag of his big, rounded shoulders, made his body like a bear's. I was like a shaved bear's: his chest was hairless. His skin was childishly soft and pink.
He scratched the back of his neck and began to dress. He put on a thin white union suit, grey socks, black garters, and dark brown shoes. When he had fastened his shoes he picked up the telephone, called Graystone 4500, and ordered a taxicab. He put on a green-striped white shirt, a soft white collar, a green necktie, the grey suit he had worn that day, a loose tweed overcoat, and a dark grey hat. The street-door bell rang as he stuffed tobacco, keys, and money into his pockets.


This is how Sam Spade gets ready for his day. It was also a time when pants cuffs were large enough that you could push a shod foot through them! Collars were still separate from the shirt. Everybody smoked like a chimney. It was 1930 in San Francisco, California.
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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:25 am

A Comparison of
The Maltese Falcon (1931), Satan Met a Lady (1936) & The Maltese Falcon (1941)

Hammett's "Polhaus and Dundy"
Image

In a murder mystery the protagonist needs to have a foil, someone who becomes a hindrance to the detective getting the job done easily. In The Maltese Falcon, Hammett supplies Sam Spade with a pair of them. They come in the form of a sympathetic police detective, Tom Polhaus, and his boss, the less-than-sympathetic Detective Lieutenant Dundy. Simply because Spade doesn't want to go look at Miles Archer's body, and simply because Polhaus happens to report that to his Lieutenant, and simply because some circumstances surrounding Archer's murder look suspicious for Spade, the two officers show up at the most inopportune times in the course of the story.

Spade knows Tom Polhaus well, and is called to the murder site at 2:05 am, where he meets Polhaus:

Other men with lights moved up and down the slope.
One of them hailed Spade, "Hello, Sam," and clambered up to the alley, his shadow running up the slope before him. He was a barrel-bellied tall man with shrewd small eyes, a thick mouth, and carelessly shaven dark jowls. His shoes, knees, hands and chin were daubed with brown loam.
"I figured you'd want to see it before we took him away," he said as he stepped over the broken fence.
"Thanks, Tom," Spade said. "What happened?" He put an elbow on a fence post and looked down at the men below, nodding to those who nodded to him.


The 1931 film features Robert Elliott as Detective Lt. Dundy, and J. Farrell MacDonald as Tom Polhouse. Elliott's career began in the silents in 1916. He appeared in 101 titles before his career ended with his death in 1951. One last television appearance was released in 1952. MacDonald was apparently much busier, with 327 screen credits. His career in motion pictures spanned from 1911 to 1951. He died in 1952. His roles, like Elliott's, were small parts, but if you get enough of them as an actor you have steady work. Elliott's Detective Lt. Dundy is the butt of Spade's jokes in the 1931 movie, and doesn't take this kindly. Tom Polhouse is constantly trying to get Spade to lighten up on his boss. Because the characters only need to be there and to be rather flatly antagonistic to Spade, the two do a good job of filling the intended roles. MacDonald gets the chance, at least, to demonstrate a degree of empathy with Spade and his plight. Dundy never cracks, so Elliott's role is mostly plain, although important. He sneers and barks at Spade, who goads the man mercilessly. Spade gets the last sneer when he solves the murders of Miles Archer and Floyd Thursby.

Charles C. Wilson plays much the same part, as Detective Dunhill, in the 1936 film. His work partner, Detective Pollack is played by Olin Howland. Think 1958 and The Blob. Both men had constant work as character players in films. Wilson started in 1928 at the dawn of the sound era. Howland's career began a decade earlier in the silents. If you look at their bio pages you'll see that Wilson has 251 credits, and Howland 212. Among the titles are some you will recognize. Howland's final movie role was Old Man in The Blob. He died at age 73 a year after that film was released. Wilson lived to be only 53 years old, and appeared in films up until his last days. Their roles are a bit more comic than their counterparts in the 1931 and 1941 versions. Howland gets to enjoy his role a bit, especially in a scene at a nightclub where he and Dunhill have cornered Ted Shane at the bottom of a stair that is being traversed by a couple dozen chorus girls who are leaving work. The girls push between Shane and Pollack, to the delight of both men. Sexist, yes, but funny nonetheless.

"Hello, Tom," he said to the barrel-bellied tall detective with whom he had talked in Burritt Street, and "Hello, Lieutenant," to the man beside Tom. "Come in."
They nodded together, neither saying anything, and came in. Spade shut the door and ushered them into his bedroom. Tom sat on an end of the sofa by the windows. The Lieutenant sat on a chair beside the table.
The Lieutenant was a compactly built man with a round head under short-cut grizzled hair and a square face behind a short-cut grizzled mustache. A five-dollar gold piece was pinned to his neck-tie and there was a small elaborate diamond-set secret-society emblem on his lapel.


Barton MacLane was another solid character actor who appeared in 180 films and TV shows from 1926 to 1969. His last important role was that of General Peterson in 35 episodes of I Dream of Jeannie over the final four years of his life. He plays Lt. of Detectives Dundy with a bit more subtlety than either of his predecessors. He lets us see that Spade's barbs don't glance off him without pricking. His hard-boiled attitude is a facade. In other words, he is more real than either Robert Elliott or Charles Wilson allow their characters to be. Ward Bond started acting in films in 1929, and his gruff, burly appearance landed him roles in 273 titles before his death in 1960. He was playing Major Seth Adams in the hit TV series Wagon Train at the time of his death. Both Bond and MacLane were well-known enough to garner stars on the Walk of Fame in Hollywood. Bond gives Tom Polhaus just the right degree of friendly undertones in his dealings with Sam Spade. He is clearly a friend of the private operative, and seeks to keep him out of water any hotter than it has to be, especially when it comes to Spade's interactions with Lt. Dundy. Out of the three films, MacLane and Bond do the best job in their supporting roles as the cops in The Maltese Falcon (1941). Just one more casting coup for John Huston. Even the small parts are superbly populated. Even these small parts allow the actors to show what is under their skin, and what gets under their skin.

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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:25 am

Here it comes. I can hardly believe it, but I'm about to finish what I set out to do in January 2011.

So, read ahead...
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:25 am

A Comparison of
The Maltese Falcon (1931), Satan Met a Lady (1936) & The Maltese Falcon (1941)

Which Version is Closest to the Novel?
Image

Your friendly neighborhood YTMN likes to watch movies and he likes to read books. It naturally follows that when creating a Remake Rematch he would endeavor to read the source material, such as a play or a novel. Of the prose sources I have read for this Rematch thread, I think the two strongest are The Maltese Falcon and The Picture of Dorian Gray. From the outset, my intentions for the Falcon Rematch have included direct comparison of each cinematic version to the prose story that began it all, as well as to the other two films.

The Maltese Falcon was a successful book for author Dashiell Hammett, first serialized in the detective magazine Black Mask from September 1929 to January 1930. The manuscript was accepted by Knopf in 1929 with requests for only minor revisions, according to the chronology in Hammett: Complete Novels. In June of 1930 Warner Brothers studio acquired the screen rights to the novel. In May 1931 the first version of The Maltese Falcon, starring Ricardo Cortez as Sam Spade, was released. Remember that at this time, no one was thinking ahead to 1936 for a remake, or to 1941 for a re-remake. Films were re-released back in those days, if successful, and besides that, they often stayed in release for two or three years at a time (or so I've read) as a small number of prints circulated around the country.

Hammett moved to Hollywood to become a screenwriter in late 1930. When Warner Brothers decided in 1935 to do the regular thing for that day...to re-release a successful film...they were cut short by the Hays Office. There were too many "overt" scenes and suggestions in the pre-Code '31 Falcon movie for it to be released in the Code Era. To continue to make money off their purchase of screen rights, WB had to create a new film. Some say that it was due to the success of the 1934 film of The Thin Man that Warner Brothers decided to humorize the Falcon story for 1936.
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So, it stands to reason (although the facts may not support reason in every case) that one of these three film adaptations should be closer to the original novel than the other two. I won't argue whether this is a good or bad thing. We've all seen film adaptations that were slavishly close to the source novel, only to realize that films and novels sometimes can't work with the identical plots and presentations.

But when you readThe Maltese Falcon there is enough external description, and a tight enough plot structure that you almost hear camera gears pulling film through an exposure gate as your eyes rake across the printed page. In my teens I read a similar description of a novel that had not yet been turned into a film, and it seems fit to borrow it here.

If you follow the plan I laid out for creating the Falcon Rematch: read the novel, watch the first film, watch the second film, watch the third film, rinse, repeat, then you will see how it all builds.
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The adapted 1931 screenplay devised by Maude Fulton and Brown Holmes is amazingly faithful to the novel. Entire scenes are presented with dialog lifted directly from the pages. But Fulton, Holmes, and director Roy Del Ruth recognized the difference between film and print, and streamlined certain aspects of the story in order to make it easier to follow, one would speculate. They let Ruth Wonderly be Ruth Wonderly all the way through the story. They reduced the presence of Wilmer Cook. They hyped up the romantic entanglement of Spade and Wonderly. They dumped entire sections of the printed story which seem necessary when you're reading, but are actually peripheral (as their screenplay proves). For reasons unknown to me they changed the ending in two ways that are major swerves away from the source material. Even with all these changes the film seems like a concrete representation of Hammett's book if you read the novel and then watch this film. Pacing issues aside, the 1931 screenplay comes damn close to being the book, with minor alterations here and there for dramatic and time reasons.
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Because of Hays Office objections, too much would have had to be cut from the 1931 film for it to be re-released a scant 4 years later, so Brown Homes undertook a new adaptation. In this case there was no intention of making The Maltese Falcon again, so he took Hammett's story and brainstormed up a comic version of the tale. Now, this is difficult to believe, but he kept virtually everything that is in the 1931 adaptation. Much of it is shoved around into slightly different dramatic locations, and the names are all changed (not for copyright reasons, mind you, but probably because the 1931 film had been a successful movie and WB didn't want people who remembered it getting confused by the title). If you look at the structure, though, you see Hammett's novel all over the place. Holmes adds characters, situations, and locations, but he still keeps almost the exact dialogue for certain segments of the film. Now, this wasn't obvious to me until I watched Satan Met a Lady for the third or fourth time. Which proves that Holmes successfully camouflaged the original story while keeping the original story, if that makes any sense. My initial response was to practically vomit at all the changes...but I came to like this film second to the most famous version, John Huston's second remake from 1941.
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I've been writing praises of Huston's movie since my first analytical essay about it in Film History class at the University in 1970. I recall my feeling of being in the presence of greatness as soon as Kasper Gutman made his first appearance in our 16mm projected version of the movie. (I don't recall whether this was in that class, or a couple years earlier in the Kingsbury High Film Society; we saw so many good films in that program, and I can't recall whether Falcon was one: Casablanca was! I didn't have to write an essay until University, though). I've since read Huston's original screenplay, and can easily draw the conclusion that his version thwarts the usually-true dictum that novels and films are different things and you shouldn't try to use a novel as a film scenario. It's a rarity, I think, but The Maltese Falcon is enough like a scenario to be made successfully into a film with mostly cuts, rather than transpositions. And Huston cut quite a lot. He included very little that Fulton and Holmes cut from their first adaptation. What he did "add back" is done faithfully to the novel. In the scenes there is some jiggling of characters and lines, but not a lot.

If you read the book and watch the three movies either in order or out of order it seems natural to conclude that the order of faithfulness would be 1941, 1931, and 1936. This is true, even though all the films change or omit scenes from the novel. I think this is because Hammett's original story is so well thought out that you can excise a few scenes, and even a few characters, and not harm the integrity of the story. Part of the integrity is that the story is compelling mostly because of the characters. Huston's film employs onscreen talent that is adept enough at their craft to evoke the characters of the story. They do this very well. They do this so completely that as an audience member I am drawn in, and I am entertained despite the film's flaws.

You knew the answer to the titular question of this post even before you read it, didn't you? Huston's film is scripturally closer to the novel than either of the two other adaptations, but not so much so as you'd think at first. It is scarcely more faithful than the 1931 film. What makes it feel much more faithful is the claustrophobic sets, the pitch perfect casting, and the controlled break-neck pace that Huston's cast and crew manage to sustain most of the way through the film.

I think that feeling more authentic in terms of the novel is enough. The winner of this contest is John Huston's 1941 adaptation of The Maltese Falcon.


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What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:29 am

You know, I feel at this moment much the same way I used to feel when I recorded the very last edit of a master-tape build. :D
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:49 am

YouTookMyName wrote:Warren William
Williams's career was made in pre-code talkies. He continued to play rakes of one sort or another. Men whose morals could easily be questioned.
Yeah, he was the go-to actor for sleazy pre-code characters. Employees Entrance is probably my favorite of his movies.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:29 pm

*standing ovation*

Can't wait to see what's in the next round! :heart:
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:39 pm

Hank wrote:*standing ovation*

Can't wait to see what's in the next round! :heart:
Why, I just logged in to preview some of the ideas! Thanks for the cue to segue, Hank.
On to selecting new Remake Rematch candidates!
Nominations Are Still Being Requested!
Keep those suggestions coming! That is, if anything comes to mind. Nominations are open until 18 August 2012.
Gort wrote:What's going on with these here nominations? Are you even doing anything about them?
Several are really attractive. I've written a post that goes into too much detail (it's my way) about five possible matches, but there are others that are really intriguing to me right now: Hank suggested what I'm calling "The Yojimbo Set" and that's caught my attention.

dreiser suggested the Hur films, and Scarface. I've rewatched the first Scarface and the De Palma will be here today so I can start making up my mind.

Ace suggested the films based on Let the Right One In; I've read the novel and seen both films, so I have a head start with that idea. Ace also suggested True Grit. I've seen both films, but have never read the book.

Genie brought up a film that I liked in Film History class, but I've never seen since, and its remake; The Big Clock and No Way Out. That could be interesting.

Among her other fascinating noms, ribs included The Fly which was one of the Rematch ideas I fiddled with in 2008 when I was posting at RT.

charulata's nominated quartet of films based on The Postman Always Rings Twice didn't interest me at all until I began to research it, and learned that it isn't about the postman or doorbells, or anything I always thought it was. Classic erotic murder tale based on a 30's crime novel best-seller. Go, char!

Kurz thought of the social basis of the four films about invading body-snatchers, and how the paranoia of the times is reflected in each of the films. With a suggestion couched in those terms, how could I resist that for long?

And I cannot get the idea of doing a Threematch of the King Kong films out of my head. That idea's also been there since 2008. The middle film totally sucks in my opinion, so it's a good chance to examine the Good the Bad and the Ugly of one idea presented on the silver screen.

Naturally, many of the others are interesting, too. And who knows what else people might suggest in the coming week if I publicize the nominations again, in the right places?

Don't be surprised that the films I just mentioned are not in the list of five possible matches that I've worked up (and will post long before you're ready for it). :D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:45 pm

I'm still trying to find out if Shieldmaiden's suggestion is actually a remake. At this point I think it is, but I'm not sure.
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I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by charulata » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:04 pm

YouTookMyName wrote: charulata's nominated quartet of films based on The Postman Always Rings Twice didn't interest me at all until I began to research it, and learned that it isn't about the postman or doorbells, or anything I always thought it was. Classic erotic murder tale based on a 30's crime novel best-seller. Go, char!
What I'm really hoping for is an informed screenshot-filled thesis on the relative sex appeal of the four lead actresses :D.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Colonel Kurz » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:08 pm

YouTookMyName wrote: Kurz thought of the social basis of the four films about invading body-snatchers, and how the paranoia of the times is reflected in each of the films. With a suggestion couched in those terms, how could I resist that for long?
Plus it's all sci-fi and whatnot. But I also strongly support Char's suggestion.

Edit: four lead actresses? I thought there were only 3 versions.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by charulata » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:21 pm

Well, I included Petzold's Jerichow which felt like a remake to me.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:21 pm

charulata wrote: What I'm really hoping for is an informed screenshot-filled thesis on the relative sex appeal of the four lead actresses :D.
*makes note*
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:13 pm

A Possible Schedule for the Next Five Rematches, Threematches and Weematches
Just some thinking. Not entirely idle thinking. This could form the schedule through February 2013. It would require acquisition of a few DVDs, or at least borrowing them. One DVD is available only as a very long wait via Netflix (the 1998 TV movie, Rear Window with Christopher Reeve). And I still have a long schedule to fill for 2013, so more nominations will be helpful to me in selecting some matches that might be enjoyable to readers as well as the hobbyist.

Nominations Are Still Being Requested!
Keep those suggestions coming! That is, if anything comes to mind. Nominations are open until 18 August 2012.

This is the sort of thing I do when deciding if I want to create a particular match.

Each of these potential Rematches has more essay topics listed than I would likely ever do, especially given the new notion of limiting the time for each one to be formulated, written and posted. There are a lot of essay ideas that haven't occurred to me for each set, and I'm already a bit disenchanted with some that have occurred to me. The ending dates are approximate (so are the start dates, if I'm honest). I have brainstormed on two possibilities for the 2012 Holiday Season. And, of course, I'm trying to figure out how to cut down on the number of boring, technical posts. I don't know if they are boring to read so much as they are boring to create.

A big plus: three of these pairings have either been nominated already, or at least supported by someone other than Gort. Yet, they are all matches that I've at least casually thought about doing in the past, so that makes them interesting to at least one other corrie besides yours truly. And if I know several months ahead what I'm planning to work on, I can shorten the development time for each Rematch, so they won't overlap the way the others did (that was a horrible mistake for my end of the process) but a new Rematch can begin posting soon after its predecessor wraps up.
..............................................................................................................................

--Rematch: Rear Window (1954) and Disturbia (2007); 18 Aug to about 29 Sep 2012
Image
Nominated by Hank
Possible essay topics for Rear Window - Disturbia:
-Confinement (what makes us become obsessed with looking outward, SETI, Hitchcock's set was totally enclosed, etc)
-Parallels Between the Films
-A Third Version (1998)
-I See You! That Moment in Both Films (the terror of discovery)
-Lady Friends
-Cast
-Crew
-Behind the Scenes
-Cinematic Tricks
-Salvation In the Mouth of the Beast (confined versus mobile and facing of a threat, how each man is rescued)
-Furious With the Idea
-
-Limited tech posts with various topics
Cost to acquire DVDs for frame grabs: $20.93 for purchases. All three versions available and queued at Netflix. I own the Blu-ray of Disturbia.
Special considerations: Although I'd like to include the Reeve remake, it's not readily available and even though I saw it, it's been since 1998. So it doesn't have to be included, but it would make it seem rather more complete to do so. I might have to move this Rematch to a later slot in order to get the Flix DVD and pull grabs and take notes, etc.
..............................................................................................................................

--Weematch: The Blob (1958) and The Blob (1988); Oct 6 to about Nov 3 2012
Image
Nominated by ribbon and dreiser, although dreiser later changed his post in order to not duplicate ribbon's suggestion.
Possible essay topics for The Blob:
-Teenagers Who are Not (McQueen was in his late 20s, Corsaut was 25. Also Star Trek "Charlie X" The teenagers in the later film were real teens? She was, he wasn't)
-At Least it's in Color! (For 1958 a low budget color film was a rarity)
-Does Acting Matter in an Indie Film?
-Making and Distributing a Movie
-Cast
-Crew
-Gross-out Horror 1950s and 1980s (what scares us across the decades)
-Amorphous Enemies (Caltiki, The H-Man) -- all made within a year of one another
-The Government is Our Enemy!
-
-Limited tech posts with various topics
Cost to acquire DVDs for frame grabs: $0.00 out of pocket. I own both DVDs.
..............................................................................................................................

--Rematch: The Wizard of Oz (1925) and The Wizard of Oz (1939) and The Wiz (1978); 3 Nov to about 8 Dec 2012
Image
Nominated by Gort.
Possible essay topics for The Wizard of Oz:
-Lions and Scarecrows and Tinmen! Oh My!
-Music in the Land of Oz
-How Dorothy Finds Oz
-Twisting a Legend
-Cast
-Crew
-Cinematography-Showing Oz
-
-Limited tech posts with various topics
Cost to acquire DVDs for frame grabs: $9.24 to buy The Wiz, I own the other two DVDs. Available at Netflix, and queued already. The Wiz streams for reviews when writing essays.
Special considerations: I've never read Frank Baum's books, so I'd start off by reading his initial Oz novel.
OR, ALTERNATELY...............................................................................................................

--Rematch: Peter Pan (1924) and Peter Pan (1953) and Peter Pan (2003); 3 Nov to about 8 Dec 2012
Image
Nominated by YTMN. Or, uh, by me.
Possible essay topics for Peter Pan:
-Live Action vs Animation
-A Woman Playing a Boy (was the tradition on stage, and later in television, Xu Jiao The Chinese Actress Who Played a Boy in the film CJ7)
-The Fascination with Not Growing Up
-Other Films that Reflect Peter Pan (Finding Neverland, Hook, etc)
-Cast
-Crew
-The Lost Boys
-Tinkerbelle
-Wendy
-
-Limited tech posts with various topics
Cost to acquire DVDs for frame grabs: $67.69 to acquire the 1924 and 1953 versions. The 1924 film is available at the library. The 1953 Disney film is queued at Netflix.
Special considerations: I'd want to read the play that J.M. Barrie wrote, but it should be available on the internet or at the library. Even though I'd like to own all of these DVDs, the Disney is rather expensive (at $50.00).
..............................................................................................................................

--Rematch: Godzilla (1954) and Godzilla King of the Monsters (1956) and Godzilla (1999); 5 Jan to about 16 Feb 2013
Image
Nominated by Gort, but approved of by Kurz.
Possible essay topics for Godzilla:
-Creating a New Monster
-Political Edges of One Sort or Another (both films have a political message whether overt or hidden)
-Foot Fetish -- (giant footprint; train crashing against G's foot)
-Scores
-Cast
-Crew
-Man in Suit vs CGI
-Why do People Hate This Film?
-About the Name
-What is Scary? And Why?
-I Hate Black & White
-A Franchise!
-Directors with a Future
-Remake vs Sequel
-Americanization of the Beast
-Speculation about the (now) 2014 remake
-
-Limited tech posts with various topics
Cost to acquire DVDs for frame grabs: $0.00 out of pocket. I own both DVDs and I have the early films on Criterion Blu-ray.
Special considerations: I once checked out a fanboy book at the library that would provide excellent background for this Rematch. If only I could recall the title. Oh, I got it! Not very expensive, either.
..............................................................................................................................

Any thoughts from anybody on how this looks to you?
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:47 pm

Good Lord! De Palma's Scarface is 2:50:00! It just got here. I'm not sure I have time to watch it before next week, but I don't want the disc lingering, either.

I'll somehow make time. (Someone didn't look at the duration on the Flix page, obviously!)
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Colonel Kurz » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:16 pm

King of the Monsters is the American cut of the first one, right?
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:42 pm

Colonel Kurz wrote:King of the Monsters is the American cut of the first one, right?
This is true. And the 1999 remake is based on both the 1954 and 1956 films, as I understand it. On the DVD sets they point out that for decades the American re-edit was Godzilla world-wide, until Toho refurbished the original cut and released it in 2004. So, I figure to do justice to a Rematch I'd have to compare all three films. Somehow.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:45 pm

YouTookMyName wrote:Good Lord! De Palma's Scarface is 2:50:00! It just got here. I'm not sure I have time to watch it before next week, but I don't want the disc lingering, either.

I'll somehow make time. (Someone didn't look at the duration on the Flix page, obviously!)
Okay, I watched it. Besides being very long it once again proves that De Palma doesn't know when to quit. His movies always seem to fade into comedy by virtue of going way over the top, and I'm not sure he intends it to be funny. Maybe he does. I can't tell!

I've seen both versions of Scarface now, but I'm not sure I see enough there for a Rematch, or that I could live with that second film for a month. Still, I'm not counting it out. Ideas may start coming to me.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:53 pm

I know what you mean about DePalma... he has quite the following around these parts. There is no denying his talents and I suspect he understands that his films venture into the absurd. It's too consistent to be unintentional methinks.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:59 pm

Hank wrote:I know what you mean about DePalma... he has quite the following around these parts. There is no denying his talents and I suspect he understands that his films venture into the absurd. It's too consistent to be unintentional methinks.
You're probably right about that.

I wrote a little something in The Recently Seen thread.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:49 pm

De Palma is one of my favorite directors. I probably own more of his films than any other director.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:34 am

dreiser wrote:De Palma is one of my favorite directors. I probably own more of his films than any other director.
Of his 38 titles listed at IMDb do you own over half of them? I'm not sure they're all available on video, of course.

Is Scarface among your favorites of his films? And what do you think of Hawks's original film? De Palma certainly took pains to make his film an homage as much as a remake. I think the transposition of alcohol to cocaine is fitting. Since I hadn't ever seen the 1983 film I didn't know whether it was updated, or a period piece (similar to The Untouchables).

EDIT: I counted up and I've seen 10 of his films. I always enjoy them, but I can spot flaws that may actually be placed there on purpose. Do you know a lot about the man and his work, at all? Maybe you could enlighten me a bit, if you do.

EDIT 2: I found an illuminating quote attributed to De Palma on his IMDb bio page: "I like stylization. I try to get away with as much as possible until people start laughing at it."
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:48 am

YouTookMyName wrote: Of his 38 titles listed at IMDb do you own over half of them? I'm not sure they're all available on video, of course.

Is Scarface among your favorites of his films? And what do you think of Hawks's original film? De Palma certainly took pains to make his film an homage as much as a remake. I think the transposition of alcohol to cocaine is fitting. Since I hadn't ever seen the 1983 film I didn't know whether it was updated, or a period piece (similar to The Untouchables).

EDIT: I counted up and I've seen 10 of his films. I always enjoy them, but I can spot flaws that may actually be placed there on purpose. Do you know a lot about the man and his work, at all? Maybe you could enlighten me a bit, if you do.
I own all of these:

Femme Fatale
The Untouchables
Dressed to Kill
Carrie
Body Double
Scarface
Blow Out
Mission: Impossible
Carlito's Way


The only three of his I've seen and really hate were:

Hi, Mom!
Wise Guys
Bonfire of the Vanities


I love both versions of Scarface. The remake gets unfairly associated with the wannabe hip hop/gangster crowd who laud it as the greatest movie ever and an inspiration. Some are put off by Pacino's outrageous performance. As you know, 1983 was a pretty wild time in America with all the drugs, especially Miami. I think the crazy energy of the film captures that zeitgeist.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:35 am

dreiser wrote:
I own all of these:


The Untouchables

Carrie

Scarface
Blow Out
Mission: Impossible
Carlito's Way


I love both versions of Scarface. The remake gets unfairly associated with the wannabe hip hop/gangster crowd who laud it as the greatest movie ever and an inspiration. Some are put off by Pacino's outrageous performance. As you know, 1983 was a pretty wild time in America with all the drugs, especially Miami. I think the crazy energy of the film captures that zeitgeist.
I left the ones from your list that I've seen. I've never seen the three you hate, but I've never hated any De Palma. I always love his Hitchcock homages, which he says are not done on purpose necessarily. I've also seen Phantom of the Paradise, Sisters, The Untouchables, Mission to Mars and The Black Dahlia (the most recent before Scarface, for me). I actually bought a DVD of Mission to Mars. It isn't one of my favorite sci-fi movies, but it is stylistic. It's interesting.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:50 am

YouTookMyName wrote: "I like stylization. I try to get away with as much as possible until people start laughing at it."
:fresh:
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:55 am

Oh, and the reasons I love De Palma's movies... it's admirable to me that he can playfully reference Hitchcock time and again in his films (Dressed to Kill is even a shot-for-shot repeat of what happens in Psycho), while thumbing his nose at dissenters. He's even better with a camera than the Master of Suspense in my opinion. Dude has every camera shot in his arsenal that you can think of: split screen, 360, tracking, slow motion, Dutch angle, split focus, et al., and he executes all of them brilliantly. I tend to gravitate toward his movies that explore seemingly normal, well-behaved characters and their pathologies: voyeurism, obsession, promiscuity, psychosis, and multiple personality disorder to name a few.

He really excels in the psychological and crime thriller genres, but BDP can venture into other thematic material like Casualties of War (unlawful/immoral behavior during warfare) and Phantom of the Paradise (musical/camp) with great aplomb.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Das » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:06 am

YouTookMyName wrote: I left the ones from your list that I've seen. I've never seen the three you hate, but I've never hated any De Palma. I always love his Hitchcock homages, which he says are not done on purpose necessarily. I've also seen Phantom of the Paradise, Sisters, The Untouchables, Mission to Mars and The Black Dahlia (the most recent before Scarface, for me). I actually bought a DVD of Mission to Mars. It isn't one of my favorite sci-fi movies, but it is stylistic. It's interesting.
De Palma's not really beloved by most for those films - well, Sisters and Phantom of the Paradise are, I'd consider Scarface and The Untouchables bloated and unpleasant efforts of his, certainly not the reason I admire the man - I admire him for his more distinct work, both Untouchables, Scarface and Mission: Impossible strike me as more homogenous than his other work thematically. I admire the man who made Blow-Out, Femme Fatale, Body Double, Dressed to kill and films of that nature.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:56 pm

8-) NOTIFICATION to TH0SE Who CARE:

Well, I updated the original post this morning to make it more compact and to add a graphic that will eventually link to the Round Two banner farm post (whenever I get around to it).

It looks a bit different, but nothing has truly changed. I moved the spoilers line to the very top. I made the original graphics for each Rematch 80% of the original size so I could put them side by side, and I put in the completion date for each Rematch. Each one links exactly as before. But they are now presented in the order of completion. Big deal.

I'll bet I'm the only one who looks at that post, these days. :D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:04 am

This is the only way I could think of to let you see my scheduling work so far, in case there are any comments about it. I should dream on, I know. Big image, so behind spoiler tags.
Image

Blue in the title column means I've seen the film. Purple means I've seen the film since I started asking for nominations.
Amazon price is there if Amazon has it for sale. But I might not have to buy it. Amazon price of $0.00 without a red BG means I already own the DVD.
Position and dates are kind of self-explanatory.
Type: RR = Remake Rematch, RMM = Remake Multi-Match (Threematch, for example), QM = QuickMatch (which will last for only two weeks, and not be very in-depth; less to it than a WeeMatch). The single QM nr = Not a rematch, but Shieldmaiden must have thought these films are very similar, and believed them to be the same story, so I'd like to explore that phenomenon. And I don't have any RWM up there because right now I haven't planned on any Weematches.
nom by is quite clear, I think.
Netflix column shows that I've looked up each of these films and placed it in the DVD queue if it's available. So, you know, I can promote it to the top when I wanna see it.
Crazy man has made a test schedule that runs from 18 Aug 2012 to 17 May 2014*. The dates are not firm. The order isn't even firm. But it was fun thinking things through this far. Depending on what might get nominated between now and Saturday this could change. Possibly even substantially.

I'm going to watch as many of the movies that were nominated as I can, and at least do mental Remake Rematches!




*Because he's probably crazy. (Or is driving himself that way with this hobby.)
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:19 am

roujin wrote:I set up vlc to take automatic screenshots. cuz i'm lazy.
I researched that today! I might do a test with the 2003 Peter Pan flick and see if it gives me anything close to what I get from sitting and pulling frames manually. If nothing else, I could look at the ones the player grabs, and decide if I needed to go in and pull a few manual ones to supplement the automatically pulled frames.

I had to go back into several of the Round One films and pull extra frames when the ones I originally got weren't exactly what I wanted, so that would not be anything new. I rather imagine I'd have more places where I'd need to do that after auto-pulling frames, though.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:23 am

dreiser wrote: I love both versions of Scarface. The remake gets unfairly associated with the wannabe hip hop/gangster crowd who laud it as the greatest movie ever and an inspiration. Some are put off by Pacino's outrageous performance. As you know, 1983 was a pretty wild time in America with all the drugs, especially Miami. I think the crazy energy of the film captures that zeitgeist.
Das wrote:I'd consider Scarface and The Untouchables bloated and unpleasant efforts of his, certainly not the reason I admire the man - I admire him for his more distinct work, both Untouchables, Scarface and Mission: Impossible strike me as more homogenous than his other work thematically. I admire the man who made Blow-Out, Femme Fatale, Body Double, Dressed to kill and films of that nature.
This gave me an idea. When it approaches time for any Scarface Rematch, I might ask y'all to contribute something (via PM) to an essay, or maybe each contribute a short essay explaining your position on this film. I could use similar guest writers in other Rematches in Round Two.

Isn't that a good idea? If not, why not? I have previous experience with something like this. Some people actually wrote their matches, and I got to post them.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:29 am

YouTookMyName wrote: This gave me an idea. When it approaches time for any Scarface Rematch, I might ask y'all to contribute something (via PM) to an essay, or maybe each contribute a short essay explaining your position on this film. I could use similar guest writers in other Rematches in Round Two.

Isn't that a good idea? If not, why not? I have previous experience with something like this.
I'll gladly contribute something where needed.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Quite-Gone Genie » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:12 am

I like No Way Out but I don't think it's worth the $35 just to see it.
"So, you see, he was condemned to walk in darkness a quadrillion kilometres (we've adopted the metric system, you know)..."
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:01 am

Quite-Gone Genie wrote:I like No Way Out but I don't think it's worth the $35 just to see it.
Yeah, I kind of felt balky at that price for a film I've never seen. :D I wonder why it's such a price. I can look for used copies, but they might also have a high price on them.

Something similar happened to a couple other suggested Rematches, too. At least this one is available, just expensive. I can't even get the 1949 Secret Garden, or the 1935 Glass Key films.

A few of the more expensive DVDs for recommended movies are available from teh Flix. One that isn't, the 1924 Peter Pan, is at my local library (allegedly).
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:10 am

YouTookMyName wrote: Yeah, I kind of felt balky at that price for a film I've never seen. :D I wonder why it's such a price. I can look for used copies, but they might also have a high price on them.

Something similar happened to a couple other suggested Rematches, too. At least this one is available, just expensive. I can't even get the 1949 Secret Garden, or the 1935 Glass Key films.

A few of the more expensive DVDs for recommended movies are available from teh Flix. One that isn't, the 1924 Peter Pan, is at my local library (allegedly).
http://www.ioffer.com/i/no-way-out-(198 ... -506007087
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... dition=new

Here are two much cheaper options for No Way Out, Gort.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:32 am

dreiser wrote:
http://www.ioffer.com/i/no-way-out-(198 ... -506007087
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... dition=new

Here are two much cheaper options for No Way Out, Gort.
Why, thanks, dreiser! I was planning to look into Amazon marketplace later...now I already have a link! Those are much better prices. Some of the used ones could be a double purchase in case there were scratches. Two DVDs would have scratches in different places, it seems.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:26 am

More readjustments.

After Genie and dreiser showed me that it would be worthwhile to search in Amazon Marketplace, I spent a little time last night finding lower prices. This morning I got to thinking that, since experience has shown me that it takes 8.8 weeks on average to complete a Remake Rematch with real life going on, I should probably redo my spec schedule and see what it would look like if I allowed 2 weeks for a QuickMatch, and 7-8 weeks for anything longer.

For the terminally curious I've posted another png of my spreadsheet.
Image

Blue in the title column means I've seen the film. Purple means I've seen the film since I started asking for nominations.
Amazon price is there if Amazon has it for sale. But I might not have to buy it. Amazon price of $0.00 without a red BG means I already own the DVD.
Position and dates are kind of self-explanatory.
Type: RR = Remake Rematch, RMM = Remake Multi-Match (Threematch, for example), QM = QuickMatch (which will last for only two weeks, and not be very in-depth; less to it than a WeeMatch). The single QM nr = Not a rematch, but Shieldmaiden must have thought these films are very similar, and believed them to be the same story, so I'd like to explore that phenomenon.
nom by is quite clear, I think.
Netflix shows that I've looked up each of these films and placed it in the DVD queue if it's available. So, you know, I can promote it to the top when I wanna see it.
This one feels more comfortable in terms of getting things done, but now some of the Rematches I'd like to do are two years away!

I hope I'll be able to complete them faster, but I'm not breaking my back to do it...this is supposed to be a hobby. I have to keep reminding myself of that.
Also, an attempt at redesigning the Initial Post for a Rematch so that everything is in that one post. No Essay Broker post at all.
My first thought about button order is in the graphics below, but this text list is my new idea of a "better" way to arrange the buttons.
Script (01-script), Director (02-director), DP (04-dp), Crew (5-01-crew), Editing (07-distribution, with text change), Find-it (r5-05-findit), Web links (08-weblinks), Quotes (09-quotes)
Below this will be all the essay thumbnails.

I borrowed an IP from R&J, and some essays from R&J, and put in dummy buttons so I can get a feel for how it might function:
ImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImage
ImageImageImage

ImageImageImage
ImageImageImage
I like this because the essays immediately follow the initial post and buttons, although a little more vertical space might be helpful! I won't have to redesign many buttons.

EDIT:I actually rebuilt the buttons after all, and here they are in place with the full-brilliance inset logos.
I borrowed an IP from R&J, and some essays from R&J, and put in dummy buttons so I can get a feel for how it might function:
ImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImage
ImageImageImage

ImageImageImage
ImageImageImage
Hmm. Another edit because I need to see these buttons with a thin border on the background of the board, rather than on white.

Full brilliance:
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
Shadow insets:
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
(I thought I would like that border, but I don't much. The old buttons have no borders, except on the insets.)
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:01 pm

ALthough I'm still not happy with the new buttons, I have decided on the first several Remake Rematches for Round Two, so the Banner farm is about to go up.

I figure there won't be any nominations in the next three days, and I've received more than I can do as it is, so in order to not wait until the last minute: it's Banner time! (You Can't Touch This)

BTW, the Flix DVD of Rear Window is on my office desktop next to me right now, so I can get started. Expect the Find it post to go up on Saturday if nothing untoward happens in real life.

And, as always, thank you for reading! :)
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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