YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:10 pm

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A Comparison of Rear Window (1954) & Disturbia (2007)
The Writers
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Screenwriter John Michael Hayes adapted Rear Window from a short story by Cornell Woolrich. Woolrich was a prolific mystery writer, whose stories have generated 97 screen credits over the years. Hayes had never worked with Hitchcock before Rear Window, but continued to collaborate with him right through the next three scripts. Even though Hitchcock was co-writer, he refused a screen credit. Altogether, Hayes has 28 screenplay credits, his final one (along with credited writers Djordje Milicevic and Jeff Arch) is one of my all time favorite films, Iron Will. Hayes was nominated for an Academy Award for Rear Window, and he won an Edgar (Edgar Allan Poe Award) for that screenplay. After severing ties with the master of suspense, Hayes worked on several high-profile motion pictures. In 1975 he even dabbled in the role of producer for a TV film called Nevada Smith. I haven't seen it but I remember that it got full-blown publicity.

The Hayes screenplay for Rear Window is available on line. And if you're into reading screenplays, here's the Disturbia screenplay from March 2006 (not the produced version of the script). Both courtesy of dailyscripts.com. Not that I asked them.

It is more difficult to find information about the two men who wrote Disturbia: Christopher Landon Story and Screenplay. Carl Ellsworth screenplay. You can't tell me these men haven't seen Rear Window, but they used it as inspiration for a way to tell a different story along similar lines. Landon's father was the well-known actor Michael Landon. As a result there is much more information about him than about his writing partner on Disturbia. He is the screenwriter for Paranormal Activity 2 & 3. There is a Wikipedia entry for him, of course. Carl Ellsworth has a Wikipedia stub. He is rumored to be writing an adaptation of Goosebumps, but there is no recent information on that project. Ellsworth wrote screenplays for The Last House on the Left and the remake of Red Dawn. From 1997 to 2001 Ellsworth's main output was for television programs for, shall we say, young viewers. Landon's follow-up to Disturbia was Burning Palms, which he also directed.



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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:37 am

I didn't know there was a Criterion of Godzilla?
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:09 am

dreiser wrote:I didn't know there was a Criterion of Godzilla?
Yep. The 1954 film and the 1956 are restored to very good condition, and in HD! Yippee!

They also explain that Godzilla is a name that Toho Productions invented for American marketing, and why they sent us that name rather than Gojira. Much cool extras, too.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:42 am

I had plans to make the essay that's about to go up post number 1052 in the thread, and the process of creating it would generate the 50,000th and 50,001st views. But I missed that. This is post 1052, and its view number is 50,111.

What I had in mind would have been a tidy little landmark, but at least the last three digits in the view number look somewhat interesting. :-/
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:43 am

A Comparison of Rear Window (1954) & Disturbia (2007)

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The Moment of Discovery

Some people like to do everything with the public taking notice, even if they are not famous. One example is those who put straight pipes on their vehicles so that people will hear the horrific sound (to the owners the sound is lovely, of course) of an unmuffled exhaust, and turn to look. Some people like to do everything in private, skulking about like spies. Most of us tend to want to be subdued in our presence, although we might like to be the center of attention every once in a while.

Not when we are dealing with violence, though. Not even when there is the threat of it. Witness police Anonymous Tip phone lines that sprang up around the country in the 1980s, such as CrimeStoppers in Memphis. Rewards are offered for successful tips, but anonymity is preserved. We don't like to be the center of attention if we have shared or started some kind of damaging gossip. We grumble at other drivers, but usually not with the windows rolled down. I noticed that in Turkey the grumbling is often done in a loud voice out of open windows, though! As a small child I was once caught while picking jonquils from a neighbor's flower patch, and I recall to this day how mortifying it was to be caught in the act. The thing is accountability. In many cases, we don't really care for it unless it applies to someone else.

Both Rear Window and Disturbia contain moments when the subject of clandestine surveillance becomes aware that he is being watched, and looks directly at the watcher. In those scenes the main character and the audience share the same "Oh, shit!" moment.

The dynamic of the situation changes suddenly, then. In the short story the moment isn't so pointed:
Cornell Woolrich wrote:I was left alone in the house, one chair the limit of my freedom of movement—

Suddenly a light went on over there again, just momentarily, to go right out again afterwards. He must have needed it for something, to locate something that he had already been looking for and found he wasn’t able to put his hands on readily without it. He found it, whatever it was, almost immediately, and moved back at once to put the lights out again. As he turned to do so, I saw him give a glance out the window. He didn’t come to the window to do it, he just shot it out in passing.

Something about it struck me as different from any of the others I’d seen him give in all the time Id been watching him. If you can qualify such an elusive thing as a glance, I would have termed it a glance with a purpose. It was certainly anything but vacant or random, it had a bright spark of fixity in it. It wasn’t one of those precautionary sweeps I’d seen him give, either. It hadn’t started over on the other side and worked its way around to my side, the right. It had hit dead-center at my bay window, for just a split second while it lasted, and then was gone again. And the lights were gone, and he was gone.

Sometimes your senses take things in without your mind translating them into their proper meaning. My eyes saw that look. My mind refused to smelter it properly. “It was meaningless,” I thought. “An unintentional bull’s-eye, that just happened to hit square over here, as he went toward the lights on his way out.”

Delayed action. A wordless ring of the phone. To test a voice? A period of bated darkness following that, in which two could have played at the same game—stalking one another’s window-squares, unseen. A last-moment flicker of the lights, that was bad strategy but unavoidable. A parting glance, radioactive with malignant intention. All these things sank in without fusing. My eyes did their job, it was my mind that didn’t—or at least took its time about it.

Seconds went by in packages of sixty. It was very still around the familiar quadrangle formed by the back of the houses. Sort of a breathless stillness.
And then the murderer shows up at Hal Jeffries's house.

Hitchcock tells Truffaut about his theories of suspense in the book Hitchcock as they discuss one of the master's early talking pictures. Among other things, Hitchcock points out (pg 73):
Truffaut wrote:A.H. There is a distinct difference between "suspense" and "surprise," and yet many pictures continually confuse the two...
Let us suppose there is a bomb underneath the table between us. Nothing happens, and then all of a sudden [it explodes]. The public is surprised, but prior to this surprise, it has seen an absolutely ordinary scene....
The bomb is underneath the table and the public knows it, probably because they have seen the anarchist place it there....the bomb is going to explode at one o'clock and there is a clock in the decor.... The audience is longing to warn the characters on the screen.
In the first case we have given the public fifteen seconds of surprise at the moment of the explosion. In the second we have provided them with fifteen minutes of suspense. The conclusion is that whenever possible the public must be informed. Except when the surprise is a twist, that is, when the unexpected ending is, in itself, the highlight of the story.
In the 1954 screen adaptation the moment of discovery is rather more pronounced than in the story. Lisa is discovered searching the Thorwald residence, Jeff calls the police and reports violence at the address, and when the cops arrive, Lisa can't help but face away from the window (knowing that Jeff is watching from across the way), hold her hands behind her back, and wiggle the finger on which she has placed Thorwald's wife's wedding band. Not only that, she points to it, and Thorwald sees this. He immediately looks up toward the apartments across the courtyard, one of which is L.D. Jefferies's flat. Both Thorwald and the public now know. Suspense is underway. And we wonder when Thorwald will find out just who has been watching him and taunting him with notes shoved beneath doors. We already believe that he will stop at nothing. Stella douses the lights and she and Jeff retreat into the shadows of his apartment. Too late.
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The Disturbia moment of discovery follows a clumsy accident caused by the observer. Kaleb Brecht and his friends have watched some rather violent activity between Mr Turner and a female guest. Kale walks Ashley to the edge of her yard, and when Kale is alone his attention is drawn back to Turner's house. He sees the girl running from Turner, and he wants to see what is happening. He manages to ineptly discharge a flash attachment built into his camcorder, which alerts the neighbor. Even though Kale falls to the floor and hides, he cannot resist checking with the video camera held above his head. When he regains the nerve to use binoculars to spy on the neighboring house again, Turner stares right at him through a window. The boy panics, and hides beneath the window ledge again. Yes, the kid has been seen. The public knows that he is in danger. Suspense is successfully set up.
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There is a soundtrack drum hit at that moment, of course. That's how people do things these days. The revelatory moment in the 1954 film is not accompanied by any specific sound effect. It is totally visual, totally cinematic.

The moment of discovery in the 1998 television adaptation seems so clumsy and out of place that I didn't even bother capturing a still of it. Suffice it to say that it has no emotional impact at all, doesn't set up suspense at all, and serves little real purpose because it seems like the glance described in the story. If the timing were better it might have had some impact, but as it is, there is nothing to write home about.

In two of the films this moment is the revelation to the audience, and to the main character, that his invisibility has been lost, and things are about to change. The moment is a surprise for the audience, but it becomes the set-up to the kind of suspense that Hitchcock talked about in the quotation above.



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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:09 am

Interesting thing I just saw:

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Looks like I was the only one logged in...as both Gort and YTMN. I haven't seen that happen before. Some of the 8 lurkers were reading. Thanks, lurks.

The next essay is scheduled for Wednesday, 26 Sept 2012. It'll be a cast comparison similar to this one from Lord of the Flies, and this one from 3:10 to Yuma.

See you on Wednesday, if no one has a reply for me to answer in the meantime!
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:34 am

A Comparison of Rear Window (1954) Rear Window (1998) & Disturbia (2007)

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The Roles and The Actors

Each of these films contains a number of peripheral characters that create the sense of a potentially real community in the viewer. I'm not going to take the time or words to compare all these: Miss Torso, the sculptor, the newlyweds, Miss Lonely Hearts, the composer and his cadre from the 1954 film. The gay couple, the guy who works at his computer, the newlyweds from the 1998 television film. The kids who watch porn unbeknownst to their mom, the guy who's boinking his illegal alien housemaid while his wife is playing tennis from Disturbia. The characters are there, and they are played competently by actors who have names. Instead, I will compare the major lead and supporting roles, and provide a little information about the actors who portray them.

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L.D. "Jeff" Jefferies. - Jason Kemp. - Kaleb "Kale" Brecht.
This story needs a watcher, an observer with a lot of unfilled time on his hands. The circumstances of Jeff Jefferies and Kaleb Brecht fit that very well. The case of Jason Kemp much less convincingly.

James Stewart plays Jefferies as a man who is chomping at the bit to get out of his isolation, but who cannot ignore the world outside his window in the meantime. It may seem that he is doing very little, but his inability to walk doesn't stop him from acting. Sometimes he acts rather impetuously and without seeming to think very far ahead. Witness, the reason he is in a wheelchair with a cast on his leg in the first place. Stewart had 96 screen roles in his lifetime, and even though those who know him say that he was basically playing himself in each one, he still manages to make each on-screen character someone you want to learn more about. He is always good at teaching you about his characters, lets you get to know them a bit. On the other hand, Christopher Reeve's[/i] Jason Kemp is a victim all the way around until he becomes a third-story voyeur. His disability is the result of a woman driving under the influence of a cell phone on a nightime rural roadway. Reeve is, sadly, playing himself at that point in his life, which means he cannot do much. His performance neither makes nor breaks the film. [url=http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0479471/]Shia LaBeouf[/i] plays Kale Brecht as a slightly hyper teen dealing with a loss that he cannot comprehend and cannot undo. Both Stewart, an accomplished actor at the time, and LaBeouf, a young man hoping for a career as durable as Stewart's, play characters who are compelling and watchable. Each gives his character a sense of humor, and a sense of dread at the appropriate moments. LaBeouf's facial expressions are his strong point in this film. He rarely does too much (something you cannot say of this actor in every role he plays, for sure!), but he gets Kale's inner condition across quite successfully.

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Lisa Fremont. - Claudia Henderson. - Ashley Carlson.
Cornell Woolrich didn't create any of the women in these three films. Lisa Fremont (an amazingly beautiful [url=http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000038/]Grace Kelly
) is one of the most interesting characters in the 1954 film, which is good, because she is the female lead. Kelly's second film role for Hitchcock would lead to a third role the following year. Her impetuous nature matches Stewart's for Jefferies. This makes them seem like a good match, although Jefferies isn't buying it until halfway through the film. Claudia Henderson seems like a cardboard cutout of a woman who needs to be there to provide romantic interest, with little reason for her existence beyond that. Daryl Hannah is given very little to do. I can't really tell whether she does it well. The characters in the 1998 TV film are so underplayed, other than the murderer. Hannah is a lovely woman, but the way in which she is photographed in this film makes her look tired of everything. Ashley Carlson is the girl who has moved in next door to a horny 17-year old, and whose interest seems at least mostly realistic in Disturbia. Kale is merely the boy next door, although he doesn't seem to know it at first. It is his condition that intrigues Ashley. Not him, so much. Sarah Roemer's third role, she manages to be quite fetching in her part. Her youthful figure, of course, fits in with the boy characters's fantasies quite well, so biology gave her that much. But she actually tries to make something of the role she is given. Roemer has continued to work steadily since Disturbia

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Stella. - Antonio Fredericks. - Ronnie.
Because the isolating circumstance in Rear Window and its TV remake is medical, it makes sense that a nurse would come into play. The presence of Stella, and of Antonio is plausible, given the need for medical care and occasional check-ups. Stella as realized by Thelma Ritter provides a comic counterpoint to Jeff's sober paranoia. She ably plays a bored woman who gets caught up in Jeff's wild imaginings. She is not surprised that he turns out to be right about Thorwald, because she begins to shadow Lisa as the two women become Jeff's investigators on the ground. Whenever Ritter shows up things are about to be fun. In the 1998 remake, Antonio (Ruben Santiago-Hudson) is an affable enabler: both enabling Jason Kemp to get about, and to watch his neighbors a little too closely. It is Antonio who brings the video camera setup to Kemp's apartment and rigs it to his pneumatic control straw so that the disabled protagonist can get a closer look at the neighbors visible across the courtyward from his window. Santiago-Hudson is almost the only character in this film who seems alive. Disturbia's most-similar character is Ronnie who is a friend from school, played by Aaron Yoo. Ronnie drops by to help his bud kill time. At first he is skeptical of Kale's newfound hobby, but he gets drawn into it when Kale shows him a few things that are going on. Ultimately, he is hooked when Kale and Ron watch Ashley swimming in her family's new pool. The first role I saw Aaron Yoo play was Heston in Rocket Science which he pulls off with the right touch of nerdy weirdness. He isn't quite so weird in Disturbia. He plays a character who is willing to follow Kale's suggestions, but he isn't always sure he should be doing what he is at the moment. I think it must be an adventure factor. We never hear Kale selling these excursions to Ronnie, we only see him in the middle of doing something that is never as easy as he thought it would be. Yoo's performance allows us to believe that he believes his character could do something as humorous as bring a very large box full of electronic gear "borrowed" from his uncle over to Kaleb's in order for them to spy on Turner. He plays such scenes with the needed seriousness, and makes them funny.

In these three films, all three characters get drawn into the protagonist's obsession, but the degree to which they become involved, and the mechanisms of involvement vary.

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Det. Lt. Thomas J. Doyle. - Detective Charlie Moore. - Officer Gutierrez.
The detectives in the two versions of Rear Window come into the story by different pathways, but they wind up in the same place: saving the main character's life. Tom Doyle is an acquaintance of Jefferies, played by Wendell Corey. Charlie Moore (Robert Forster) is investigating the accident that rendered Kemp a quadriplegic. Officer Gutierrez (Jose Pablo Cantillo) is the beat cop assigned to Kale's incarceration at first, and who runs that route when he is on duty. It is a coincidence that he is the cousin of the high school Spanish teacher who became the target of the Brecht boy's fist. Corey has the meatiest role, and plays it with a certain swagger that we are allowed to see is Doyle's tough put-on. He plays well off Thelma Ritter and James Stewart, providing the hard skepticism that drives Stewart to learn more. Forster's role is, like most of the roles in the 1998 remake, marginal. In fact, he has a steering role in the film, but by the time it's on the screen it's hard to tell that. Cantillo's role is only slightly more than a walk-on part. Still, the actor does his best with the role, never flagging simply because he isn't on screen more often.

Corey appeared in 78 film and television roles in his career, always playing a supporting character. His face was quite familiar to Americans on 50s and 60s television. Forster has managed to appear in 151 roles since 1967, and continues to work. In his first movie role he rode a horse naked, although he says that it was a surprise to him at the time that they didn't use some kind of process shot. And when he arrived on the set they actually had an extra already taking his place in the shots, but Forster insisted that he could do the role himself. Cantillo has a pretty good record since he began film acting in 2003. His 40 roles to date have mostly been in TV, but actors don't try to play only in films or televsion any more; acting is acting.

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Lars Thorwald. - Julian Thorpe. - Mr Turner.
Lars Thorwald is a jewelry salesman, apparently. He has an invalid wife with whom he argues frequently. He also has a lady on the side. Julian Thorpe is a well-established sculptor whose wife is an alcoholic, and who has her sister as his lady on the side. Mr Turner is a next door neighbor who brings home women much younger than he is, but he is unencumbered by a spouse.

The three roles are rather different. Thorwald is always seen from a distance, even though Raymond Burr gets closeups in the Point-of-View shots through Jeff's 400mm lens. Burr manages to be both threatening and vulnerable in this mostly silent role. He was still 2 years away from stardom, and that would come when he was in the American re-edit of Godzilla. He was three years away from his defining serial role as Perry Mason on TV. It became defining because so many of his 141 turns before the cameras were done with him in that role. Ritchie Coster is still working; in fact, you may have seen him as Mr. Zoric, the swimming coach, in Let Me In. Coster has also appeared in small roles in a number of action films and TV shows. David Morse is most memorable to me as Ted Arroway, Elli's father in Contact. Morse is known for playing heavies as well as nice guys with equal aplomb. It is obvious that direction has him scowling a few times too many in Disturbia, because he doesn't always play the character of Mr Turner with evident meanness. Yet he maintains a constant sense of threat.




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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:56 am

Some quotations are due on Saturday. I have four more posts to complete this Rematch. All but one is finished (for the most part). I left the schedule as it is, but it would be neat if I could start The Fly Rematch closer to the beginning of Halloween month. And perhaps I could get all of The Fly stuff posted in October.

That would give me the entire months of November and December 2012 to do the Peter Pan Rematch, which would be good, given that it's going to be a busy time at work and a socially demanding holiday Season.

We'll see.

As it turns out, the eight weeks per Rematch schedule is more realistic than what I first proposed for myself. :shifty: So, I don't know about compressing the Rematch twixt two fly flicks into one month.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:36 am

YouTookMyName wrote:Daryl Hannah is given very little to do. I can't really tell whether she does it well. The characters in the 1998 TV film are so underplayed, other than the murderer. Hannah is a lovely woman, but the way in which she is photographed in this film makes her look tired of everything.
Daryl Hannah has always puzzled me a little bit. She has consistently gotten a ton of work, most of it straight to video. Early on in her career she rec'd some really choice roles like Splash and Wall Street. But the only pictures I've seen where she excels as an actress are Blade Runner, the Kill Bill films, and maybe Roxanne.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:06 am

dreiser wrote:
Daryl Hannah has always puzzled me a little bit. She has consistently gotten a ton of work, most of it straight to video. Early on in her career she rec'd some really choice roles like Splash and Wall Street. But the only pictures I've seen where she excels as an actress are Blade Runner, the Kill Bill films, and maybe Roxanne.
The first film I saw her in was Splash. I've also seen Blade Runner and Roxanne. I really liked her in the Cyrano film. Maybe she does a lot of roles for a paycheck. Some people are not as rich as we think.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:08 am

YouTookMyName wrote: The first film I saw her in was Splash. I've also seen Blade Runner and Roxanne. I really liked her in the Cyrano film. Maybe she does a lot of roles for a paycheck. Some people are not as rich as we think.
Christopher Walken is legendary for saying yes to everything he's offered. Guy says he just likes working.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:52 am

dreiser wrote:
Christopher Walken is legendary for saying yes to everything he's offered. Guy says he just likes working.
I saw in interview with Donald Southerland where he said the same thing. He said it had led him to roles in some very good films and some rotters. He claimed to always say 'yes' unless there was a scheduling conflict.

Did you notice the name of the newest member of the board?
"Our newest member brundel"
Looks like Seth has joined us. I'm so glad he could fly in.

Oh, ribbon, would you be willing to write an essay for the upcoming Rematch of The Fly and The Fly? If you don't have time, that's fine. You can reply by PM.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:55 am

YouTookMyName wrote:Did you notice the name of the newest member of the board?
"Our newest member brundel"
Looks like Seth has joined us. I'm so glad he could fly in.
I'm not familiar with brundel. Is he a poster from RT?
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:58 am

dreiser wrote:
I'm not familiar with brundel. Is he a poster from RT?
I don't know. I haven't posted over there since 2010. The main character, the PhD from The Fly is named Seth Brundel. And The Fly is my upcoming Rematch. :)
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:03 am

YouTookMyName wrote: I don't know. I haven't posted over there since 2010. The main character, the PhD from The Fly is named Seth Brundel. And The Fly is my upcoming Rematch. :)
Ah.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:30 pm

Image

A Comparison of Rear Window (1954) & Disturbia (2007)
Lines You Might Like
Image
Neither of these movies is exactly a set-up for a quotefest. But there are a few memorable lines in each.
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Memorable lines from Rear Window
L.B. Jefferies' Editor: It's about time you got married, before you turn into a lonesome and bitter old man.
Jeff: Yeah, can't you just see me, rushing home to a hot apartment to listen to the automatic laundry and the electric dishwasher and the garbage disposal and the nagging wife...
L.B. Jefferies' Editor: Jeff, wives don't nag anymore. They discuss.
Jeff: Oh, is that so, is that so? Well, maybe in the high-rent district they discuss. In my neighborhood they still nag.

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Stella: We've become a race of Peeping Toms. What people ought to do is get outside their own house and look in for a change. Yes sir. How's that for a bit of homespun philosophy?
Jeff: Readers Digest, April 1939.
Stella: Well, I only quote from the best.

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Stella: When two people love each other, they come together - WHAM - like two taxis on Broadway.
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Jeff: She wants me to marry her.
Stella: That's normal.
Jeff: I don't want to.
Stella: That's abnormal.

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Lisa: I wish I were creative.
Jeff: You are. You're great at creating difficult situations.

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Lisa: The last thing Mrs. Thorwald would leave behind would be her wedding ring. Stella, do you ever leave yours at home?
Stella: The only way somebody would get that would be to chop off my - finger. Let's go down to the garden and find out what's buried there.
Lisa: Why not? I always wanted to meet Mrs. Thorwald.

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Lisa: You can't ignore the wife dissapearing, and the trunk, and the jewelery.
Lt. Doyle: I checked the railroad station. Yesterday at 6:20 am, he bought a ticket. Ten minutes later, he put his wife on a train. Destination: Meritsville. I asure you, the witnesses are that deep.
Lisa: That might have been a woman, but it couldn't have been Mrs. Thorwald. That jewelery...
Lt. Doyle: Look, Miss Fremont, that feminine intuition stuff sells magazines, but in real life it's still a fairy tale. I don't know how many times I chased down leads based on women's intuition.

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Lisa: What's he doing? Cleaning house?
Jeff: He's washing and scrubbing down the bathroom walls.
Stella: Must've splattered a lot.
(both Jeff and Lisa look at Stella with disgust)
Stella: Come on, that's what were all thinkin'. He killed her in there, now he has to clean up those stains before he leaves.
Lisa: Stella... your choice of words!
Stella: Nobody ever invented a polite word for a killin' yet.

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Stella: You'd think the rain would've cooled things down. All it did was make the heat wet.
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Here is the IMDb quotes page for Rear Window.


Image
Memorable lines from Disturbia
Kale Brecht: So you canceled my X-box?
Mrs. Brecht: You know what else I'm canceling? Maid service!

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Kale: Ron-O! What's goin' on, bro!?
(KALE hugs RONNIE)
Ronnie: Nothing.
Kale: How you doin?
Ronnie: Oh, great. (quietly) Have you been showering?

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KALE and RONNIE have been watching ASHLEY in her pool. RONNIE has the binoculars.
Ronnie: And, she's gone.
(Doorbell rings)
Kale and Ronnie: No!

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(ASHLEY is at the door. KALE has just opened it.)
Kale: So, what brings you here? To my house?
Ashley: I got locked out.
Kale: Oh, that...sucks! -- You wanta call someone?
Ashley: (coming into the house) No. I'd rather stay stranded. If you don't mind.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
(KALE is hiding in the floor. His cell phone ring tone sounds. Loud. He scrambles over trying not to rise above the shelf in the window, and answers the phone. It is RONNIE.)
Kale: Listen to me. Turner just saw me!
Ronnie: He did?
Kale: Yeah. And then -- the g-girl...just a minute.
Ronnie: Kale, what is happening? Talk to me, man.
(KALE is watching the Redhead drive away in her car.)
Kale: It's the redhead. She's leaving the house.

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Kale: All right that's it. Give me the phone, I'm calling the cops
Ashley: Wait, he didn't even do anything. All he said was that he liked his privacy
Kale: But think about that, why does he want his privacy? I mean he's hiding something, we know that.
Ronnie: Yeah, definitely.
Kale: Right? And he knows that we know that, he knows that, and regardless of if he had a bad day or good one, it doesen't matter. He scared the hell out of you, that's a grown man.
Ashley: Look, Kale, he freaked me out, but he's right. We're the ones spying.
Ronnie: Oh, man, she has that Stockholm thing. You know where the hostage falls for the hostage taker?
Ashley: Where do you get this stuff?
Ronnie: I read a lot?
Kale: Ok, I have a question, how is that a nice and charming guy?
Ashley: I didn't say that.
Kale: Ok, Ash, what you said was that "He broke into my car, but did it in a nice way?". Maybe I'm not understanding
Ronnie: Ok, you know what? Can we just...
Ashley: Drop this? This is obviously not a cute little game anymore. This has gone way too far.
(Cell phone rings)
Ashley: Hi, mom. No, I'm not over here.
(pause)
Ashley: Ok, I'm coming.
(to Kale and Ronnie)
Ashley: Parents anniversary amazingly enough... Just drop this, I'll call you later, ok?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ashley: What else have you seen Kale?
Kale: What else have I seen?
Ashley: Yeah, what else?
Kale: I've seen a lot. I mean, not like that, not, I mean...
(takes a breath)
Kale: For instance, I've seen that you're maybe one of, I don't know, three people in the world that likes pizza-flavored chips. You're also the only person I've ever seen that spends more time on the roof of her house than in her actual house. And what are you doing? You're reading. Books. You know, not "US Weekly or "Seventeen", or, you know... but you're reading substantial books. You also do this, uh...
(scratches head, chuckles)
Kale: You do this thing where, it's like an OCD thing, but it's not. It's, um... Whenever you're leaving your room, you grab the doorknob, you turn it and you're getting ready to leave but you don't, you stop and you back up and you turn to the mirror and you stare at yourself. But it's not like a, you know, "I'm so hot" kind of stare. You know, it's more like... "Who am I, really?" And to ask yourself that, I mean, that's so cool. So you look out the window all the time like I do, only you're looking at the world, you know? Tryin' to figure it out, trying to understand the world. Trying to figure out why it's not in order like your books... I'm only looking at you.
Ashley: That's either the creepiest... or the sweetest thing I've ever heard.

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(TURNER speaks to KALE who is tied up and gagged. He removes the cassette from KALE's camcorder.)
Turner: I really didn't want this. All I wanted was to live in peace. Which is why we gotta keep the spotlight on you."

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Here is the IMDb quotes page for Disturbia.



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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Birdie Num Nums » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:37 pm

YouTookMyName wrote: Then we should have a lot of agreement going on in a couple months! :up:

I'm working ahead on these Rematches, so I won't get off schedule...and the schedule is so strung out that even extra paying work coming up shouldn't postpone anything. I've downloaded copies of the original Peter Pan novel, the original play, and plan to read those before I start. I've already watched all three films again. Well, one I watched for the first time (1924).

Will I see you again before November 24th? :D
Woohoo! I should revisit the Disney film one of these days. Reading Barrie's text for the first time since I was a Little Birdie, and I'm delighted to discover I haven't grown up very much in the years since. Can't wait for your analysis. These are so in-depth it's kind of mind-boggling, Gort.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:12 pm

Birdie Num Nums wrote: Woohoo! I should revisit the Disney film one of these days. Reading Barrie's text for the first time since I was a Little Birdie, and I'm delighted to discover I haven't grown up very much in the years since. Can't wait for your analysis. These are so in-depth it's kind of mind-boggling, Gort.
Thanks.

Yeah, I like to kind of get into films or sort of watch them and forget them. I have two more tech posts and one essay and I'll be on to The Fly in a few days, earlier than I thought, but I'm not sure when. I hope that means I can start Peter Pan by early November, rather than at US Thanksgiving time.

I downloaded the Pan novel and when I bought my nook e-reader last week it was one of the first items I copied over, and one of the first books I read on it. So now I want to read the HTML script of the play that I downloaded at the same time, and...oh, wait, I have the Halloween-month adventure of analyzing The Fly first! :D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:02 am

YouTookMyName wrote:- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Stella: You'd think the rain would've cooled things down. All it did was make the heat wet.
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:P
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:29 pm

Image

A Comparison of Rear Window (1954) & Disturbia (2007)
Set Design and Such
Image
To build a set of the size that was decided upon for the Hitchcock production of Rear Window required an experienced Art Director. J. McMillan "Mac" Johnson, the man who did special effects in The Wizard of Oz, fitted the task perfectly, as history indicates. Mac and his crew put together a $75,000 monster set that had lighting presets for all the times of day and night, and different levels of occupancy inside the various apartments. These could be reset by throwing a few switches, to change which lights were illuminated for each set-up...a technique which must have saved a lot of time during the shooting schedule. McMillan's associate on the film, Hal Pereira, gives each false apartment the accoutrements of a realistic life, signs of its occupant that reveal the invisible person within the skin that we can see. Just as actors report finally finding their character once they are in costume and can think, "Ah! This is what I look like," perhaps the cast of Rear Window had the additional aid of looking about their individual sets and thinking, "Ah! This is where I live," in guiding them toward their final performances.
Image
Even though it wasn't originally the intention to keep the camera almost always confined to Jeff's apartment, showing only what he can see, the set really serves that decision by giving us a certain kind of view from the outside of any apartment. Some we see through only one window. Others we can glimpse only through an open door. For some apartments there are windows placed so that we can see (at the same time) people in the hallway, the kitchen, the living room, and the bedroom. The characters within the apartment cannot see all this at once. The design is used for both Lars Thorwald's apartment, and Miss Lonely Hearts's apartment, directly beneath it. Actors disappear for a time behind the walls between windows as they move horizontally across the apartment set. Thus, they are only partially revealed to us, and only in bursts. We cannot see all of them, although we know there is more to their lives than we can detect. It is the same with the world beyond this small courtyard.

Image
Image
Through a driveway space between buildings we are allowed to see the major street beyond the building that houses Thorwald's apartment. This gives us an occasional view of passing traffic, playing children and even a cafe in which Miss Lonely Hearts dines.
Image
Each apartment has its own decor, reflecting something about the occupants. Naturally, the composer has a piano, but his studio also has an entire wall of glass, as if he is offering his life up to public view. Miss Torso's apartment also has a relatively larger window than normal for a tiny apartment, but has a wide open space across its middle, yet it seems to consist of a bathroom and a living-dining-kitchen space. There is no bedroom, her bed is in the common living space, but she never seems to sleep. Only to dance and court men. Notice the pigeons on her rooftop! Miss Lonely Hearts has a lushly decorated apartment with tightly controlled, orderly decor, but no one to share it with, as if she has an imaginary life cut off from the real world. She brings a man into her inner world, expecting one thing, but getting something else, which disappoints her. The Thorwalds' apartment is very austere, very much a stereotypical "couple's pad" for the day...as if that's the impression they want to project, even if it is a lie.
Image
Jeff's apartment is small, because his entire life lies away from home. When trapped with himself he turns outward and gazes at the world away from his own two rooms. Why? Because that's what he does as a photographer. Jefferies is not only a voyeur when he is stuck at home with a leg in a cast...it's his inclination, and it has become his job. His walls are filled with photos representing things he has observed through his lens and earned what he describes as a meager living from doing so. His personality makes it a good thing that he has visitors, because when Jeff Jefferies is the only one in the room, no one is at home. At the end, when Doyle bursts out from Thorwald's building and runs across the courtyard, the camera's confinement to Jeff's apartment is broken, and we see the outer wall of his bachelor pad for the only time.
Image
In a printed essay that I draw on for the "Behind the Scenes" essay in this Rematch, Scott Curtis in "The Making of Rear Window" points out that the courtyard itself is divided so that progress through it is impeded by various obstacles. After reading his words I realized that the small courtyard is treated in just the same way we treat all our real estate. We cordon it off so that only those we approve of can have access to our plot of soil. This keeps us apart more than it draws us together, and once again the set design reflects the fractured little neighborhood where Jeff lives, and which he watches during his incapacity.

The design staff for Disturbia included Production Designer Tom Southwell, Art Director Douglas Cumming, and Maria Nay, acting as Set Decorator. These people and their assistants did an excellent job of creating a lived-in environment for the film. Their studio sets blend so completely with the actual locations that you don't have a sense of being somehow incompletely "fooled" into thinking it's all happening in one location. The popular term is "it blends seamlessly." But, as you can tell from this small collection of behind the scenes stills grabbed from the Making of documentary, it's just a movie. A well-crafted one.
Image
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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:53 pm

Okaaaayyyyy. I have all but the weblinks tech post done for RWD. So I'm putting up the IP banner for The Fly, and officially starting it 13 days early.

I'll finish posting the last two Rear Window Rematch posts on 2 October and 3 October. I expect to have the Find-it links post for The Fly up on or before Saturday 06 Oct 2012. If all goes well.

This gives me all of Halloween month to dabble in the problems of Dr. André Delambre and Dr. Seth Brundle and their respective insect playmates. Bwah hah hah haaaaah. May your skin crawl. May your flesh be mortified! May your eyes instinctively squeeze shut rendering you temporary blinded from sheer fear!!!

Enjoy the upcoming Rematch. :D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:55 pm

This is the initial post for The Rematch between The Fly (1958) and The Fly (1986)
This Rematch is complete as of 12 November 2012.
Selected by ribbon
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Essays for the Rematch of The Fly films.
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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:24 am

YouTookMyName wrote:I suppose Satan Met a Lady has to be the worst adaptation, since it doesn't retain the character names, and toys more with the plot than either eponymous adaptation does. Or does it? If you read the novel and then immediately watch Lady, you'll be able to tell what was changed and what was left intact. There is more plot left intact than it might seem. Okay, but it changes the names, the McGuffin is not a bird, and it is a comedy. That makes it the least faithful, and I'd be willing to say that it is, therefore, the worst adaptation.
Bette Davis thought that film was complete trash. Especially after doing quality stuff with Leslie Howard like The Petrified Forest and Of Human Bondage. Jack Warner insisted she do the picture, so she left the studio in protest. Of course, it was during The Depression and Davis eventually gave in because she needed the money.
YouTookMyName wrote: But the plain truth is that, no matter how unfaithful each may be as an adaptation, none of the movies is terrible as a film.
I really enjoy the first one with its Pre-Code sensibilities.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:29 am

dreiser wrote:Bette Davis thought [Satan Met a Lady] was complete trash. Especially after doing quality stuff with Leslie Howard like The Petrified Forest and Of Human Bondage. Jack Warner insisted she do the picture, so she left the studio in protest. Of course, it was during The Depression and Davis eventually gave in because she needed the money.
Do you suppose I'm suffering from Stockholm Syndrome because I held myself hostage to the film and saw it so many times that I began to like it? Or maybe it was like the popular song effect, where hearing a new song again and again causes a person to begin to either like it, or to think that they do.

Maybe it's a psychological thing. :D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:34 am

YouTookMyName wrote: Do you suppose I'm suffering from Stockholm Syndrome because I held myself hostage to the film and saw it so many times that I began to like it? Or maybe it was like the popular song effect, where hearing a new song again and again causes a person to begin to either like it, or to think that they do.

Maybe it's a psychological thing. :D
I think you did the proper thing by leaving the baggage behind and assessing the film on its own merits. I think it is decent when not being viewed through the Hammet/Huston prism.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:04 pm

Image

A Comparison of Rear Window (1954) & Disturbia (2007)
Other Information on teh Netz

Time for Weblinks! Cue the dancer. Image

I found a lot of links to essays and possible topics of interest that I didn't find a place for in my own essays. I'm sharing them with you, here. I've also included a few links that appear in the essays.

Image There are references to the films and the short story in Wikipedia, naturally.
Cornell Woolrich.
Rear Window.
John Michael Hayes.
Alfred Hitchcock.
Disturbia.
Christopher Landon.
Rear Window television film, from 1998.


Image NEWSY sorta LINKS
In 1997, CNN had this article about Rear Window: Film restoration more than 'Rear Window'-dressing. 'To enhance its image quality, the restored version will be among the first films printed in Technicolor's new dye-transfer process (so far used only experimentally with a few prints of Warner Bros.' "Giant" reissue and "Batman & Robin").'

Want to read more about the Pereira brothers? Take a look at Design & Desire in the Twentieth Century--All in the Family: The Pereira Brothers from tumblr.com. It's from A blog devoted to Twentieth Century Architecture and Design History by Joanne Capella.

Okay, these two go together. First, a couple of news articles about a lawsuit brought against Disturbia, and then dismissed by a judge. Second, a similar report of a film that got Hitchcock's production company sued, in The Day of the Claw: A Synoptic Account of Alfred Hitchcock’s The Birds. The film credits Daphne Du Maurier's short story as the source. But there are other, similar stories, and the copyright holders took umbrage. In fact, this article says, 'no sooner had The Birds appeared, early in 1963, than its director found himself facing threats of possible lawsuits for plagiarism. Three separate works were cited against him (7): a short story by Philip MacDonald, “Our Feathered Friends” (1931); a forgotten (indeed obscure) novel by Englishman Frank Baker, The Birds (1936); and a novel by Jean Giono, Le Hussard sur le toit (The Horseman on the Roof, 1951). In all three, the avian world wreaks terror and mayhem on the human, Giono’s novel merely compounding its effect by being set in 19th-century Provence during a cholera epidemic.' I ordered an ancient short story collection paperback book bearing the source story for The Fly (1958). When it arrived, I noted that there are 14 other stories in it. I read them all, of course. One of them is “Our Feathered Friends” by Philip MacDonald. So this article caught my eye as I searched for sources of information about Hitchcock and Rear Window.


Image ACADEMIC sorta LINKS:
Recuperation and Rear Window by Murray Pomerance. An insight into Jeff Jefferies's confinement that I would never have thought of. Quite interesting, though long.

Enter Lisa by Douglas Pye begins on page 47 of 72 in this pdf. "It is Sleeping Beauty in reverse." Also, "My argument is that the methods of the film imply not direct signalling of doubling or dream but the opposite, patterns of action and image that are gradually revealed and that take on significance through evocation and association."

The Space of Rear Window by John Belton. The man who edited a book I used part of holds forth on the use of space in the 1954 film. This is an article extracted from MLN, Vol. 103, No. 5, Comparative Literature (Dec., 1988), pp. 1121-1138.

Speaking of John Belton, you can read a sample of pages from the book Alfred Hitchcock's Rear Window that John Belton edited. There is even a link to purchase the book, if you wish. A similar page exists from the publisher of the book, Cambridge University Press. In fact, here is the Introduction link from that page.

DISABLED BY DESIRE: BODY DOUBLES IN “REAR WINDOW” (1942), REAR WINDOW (1954), AND REAR WINDOW (1998). by Nancy Steffen-Fluhr. We have to let abelist writers have their say, don't we? "In the coded world of the classical Hollywood cinema, the figure of the ‘disabled’ body is always a double body. Especially the disabled male body. Haunted by its uncanny partner, the ‘normal’ body, it is chained forever to its own doppelganger."


Image REVIEWS and INFORMATION:
Rear Window (1954): The Writer’s Perspective Posted by Tim, on March 12th, 2012. "So, unlike many Hollywood productions these days, Rear Window is a film that is consummately crafted with innate story-sense and an understanding of tone." Yeah. It was also unlike many films of its own day in that regard.

From CinemaBlend.com: Disturbia.

Formatting on this page, 'Some notes on Rear Window' isn't...well, it has none, but the information is interesting. The author, Ken Mogg, mentions an H.G. Wells story, ‘Through a Window’ which Mogg blieves hitchcock may have read before accepting the contract to direct a film based on the Woolrich story.

A review of the 1998 TV remake. Another 1998 review.

Is this question burning a hole in your brain?: What did they think of Disturbia at squidoo.com? Find out here. Ease that headache.

Of course there are more reviews available for the Hitchcock film. Reelviews.net -- philosopherouge at Beyond the Valley of the Cinephiles. Yes, that's her blog. READ IT!

Image CLIPS:
The Making of Disturbia at YouTube. Part 1 of 2 (link to part 2 available there).
Rear Window re-release trailer. No matter what it says on the YouTube page. There are links to other RW clips there, also.

Image MISCELLANY and TRIVIA:

From the HitchcockWiki: Images Related to Rear Window.

Films 101 sorted 43 of Hitchcock's films by someone's ranking. Other rankings and such: TopTenReviews.com. Nerve.com, (at least these are ranked worst to best). Citizen Caine's rankings at listall.com.

IMDb trivia pages for Rear Window (1954); Rear Window (1998); Disturbia (2007).

[That's enough web-linking, I'm thinking!]


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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:54 am

A Comparison of Rear Window (1954) & Disturbia (2007)

Image
A Few Production Details of Interest

We have two different styles of film here, with two different generations as the primary audience, yet the films have the same aim: creating in you that "OMG! Wt's gun 2 hpn nxt?!!11!" kind of feeling called "suspense." Hitchcock liked to shoot in studios where he had total control of everything, but Caruso is willing to take his camera out into real towns in order to capture more "realistic" looking footage. In fact, Caruso shot interiors at a studio, the same one that housed Hitchcock's production, Paramount Studios at 5555 Melrose Ave., Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA. But Caruso also ranged to Whittier, Bishop, Pasadena, and South Gate, California for exteriors.

I suppose it's a bit disingenuous to use blood splatters in the graphics for these movies, because neither one had a budget (or at least they didn't have a very big budget) for fake blood. Murder is only spoken about in Rear Window. Never shown. There is a line about cleaning up blood. Other than a cut lip or two there isn't any oozing blood in Disturbia. Both movies get any power they have to splatter you with blood from sheer imagination: your own.
Image
Initially, this essay was going to be about both films, but I couldn't find anything very interesting or substantial in the Making of feature for Disturbia. My only available sources for Disturbia are some videos that were produced during the making of the film for promotion afterward. I found them on YouTube, although they also appear on my Blu-ray disc for the most part. Apart from some interesting but rather ordinary production imagery, they are more fluff than hard core information. They don't provide the same level of interesting detail that Scott Curtis's chapter does for Rear Window, but Disturbia is not (yet) a classic.
Image
I was able to locate an early version of the script for the 2007 film, along with a December 1953 script for Rear Window, but comparing a script to the sumptuous amount of information that exists about Hitchcock's movie seems rather pointless and lopsided. So, I'm going fully lopsided and will largely dedicate this essay to one printed source that I found about the 1954 film.
Image
The Disturbia and Rear Window screenplays that I located on line are not the final shooting script versions. This is more interesting than if we got a copy that reflected all the pink sheets and other color pages, with changes that were made during shooting. For example, Thomas Doyle's last name was Coyne at one time. Although, if you look at the top shot on page 155 of the script the name Doyle appears for one instance. In the Disturbia script the neighbor who had a black Mustang is named Mr Giles. The housekeeper who is having an affair with the tennis player's husband is a young man. Ashley's last name is Norris, and the Norris family arrives to move in with a U-Haul trailer rather than a Mayflower van. You can see the product placement money flowing into the coffers and changing things, as you read this earlier version of the script and compare it with the final movie. Plus, the ending unfolds entirely differently, or mostly so. The revision that was produced is much stronger, I think.

My main source of information concerning Rear Window for this behind the scenes look at the two films is a chapter from the book, Alfred Hitchcock's Rear Window, edited by John Belton, and published by Cambridge University Press. My main interest is in the chapter by Scott Curtis, entitled "The Making of Rear Window", which details the development of the set for the film and how the set itself was the 1954 marketing focus. Some of the Rear Window production images are scanned from Hitchcock by François Truffaut.
Image
Both films are shot on 35mm film. Hitchcock had no choice about that, but Caruso could have sourced with a modern digital camera. He chose to use film stock instead. Ultimately, that decision changed something essential about the film, but we'll never know what it was.

The modern gear for capturing footage is quite sophisticated compared to what existed in 1954. But Hitchcock's technical advantages were not exactly meagre. His crew emptied the basement area beneath Sound Stage 18 at Paramount, tore out the floor, and used the full height of the building for constructing a monstrous apartment courtyard, with electric service, and even running water in some of the apartment sets. It looks so realistic in the film because it is so complete in real life. The apartments were enclosed, so that when Robert Burks shot scenes in Jeff's apartment, there were restrictions on set-ups just as there would have been in a real apartment house. Perhaps they had some flying walls and the like, but they didn't have the entire expanse of the soundstage to array lights and camera rigging...because over half of it was filled with an outdoor courtyard in what used to be the basement. Jefferies's apartment was constructed at the original floor level of the soundstage. In the photo below it looks as if the courtyard walls of Jefferies's apartment have been removed to ease shooting scenes toward the inside wall of his apartment. (But the shot is obviously staged: no actors would be needed in the wall of apartments if they were actually shooting with Stewart and Kelly in Jeff's apartment!)
Image
Hitchcock was one of the first directors to fully storyboard his films. By the time he was planning Rear Window he had three walls of a meeting room papered with thumbnail sketches, and as ideas changed so did the storyboard cards (this from Scott Curtis). Even with all the care, evidenced by Hitchcock inviting the editorial staff to the pre-production meetings, the production phase still ran 15 days, and $262,697 over budget. Curtis reveals that Jimmy Stewart and Alfred Hitchcock were the money people behind the picture at the beginning. Stewart was one of the first big-name stars to defer his salary for a share of the box-office. Grace Kelly reports that Hitchcock would sit with her during filming of Dial M for Murder and talk at length about Rear Window, which was still in pre-production, even though he hadn't asked her to be in the film yet. This might have stemmed from his boredom with shooting a picture after so carefully planning it ahead of time. Curtis quotes from an interview with Hitchcock that appears in a book by Crawley, Markle and Pratly: "I wish I didn't have to shoot the picture. When I've gone through the script and created the picture on paper, for me the creative job is done and the rest is just a bore."

Rear Window remains such a compelling masterpiece because all the right people came together to work on it, and everyone took such pains in each step of making the story seem real. Paying such close attention to detail was hard work, arduous work. But if you've ever been on a coesive video or film production team you know that they enjoyed it. When doing such a monstrously effective film they must have felt extra good about their work.
Image

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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:25 am

The post that is about to go up has taken me nearly 8 hours to complete. I think I should immediately start on the Find-it post for Peter Pan! Maybe that way I can have it done and ready to post when it's time to put that Rematch on the blocks.

If you want to watch these films so that you can know more about what's going on...well, I've given you all the information about finding them that I could. The retailers ought to be damn happy with what I've done for them without a bloody cent of compensation. :-/

:D
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:26 am

Image

A Comparison of The Fly (1958) and The Fly (1986)
Where Can I see It?

Do you crave to be in the know when a new Rematch appears? Do you want to be one of the cool kids who can discuss these movies forwards and backwards, and in the authentic language of flies? (The Buzz!) Then you need this post. Read the story and generate wealth in the pockets of some used book sellers! Buy extra copies of the DVDs and Blu-ray discs so you can show the films on all your televisions at once! Don't forget to stream the movie from Amazon, on your computer. You don't want it to feel left out of the fly-fest, now do you?

Sit back with a full cup of your favorite beverage, and enjoy all the information that is about to come your way as you scroll and click your way down the page. Enjoy! Enjoy! Enjoy!

The Source Story Image
Remember that this is the source of a scawy movie, so it must be a scawy stowy! If you dare, enter into its pages with trembling and anticipation. You might get spooked. Or you might begin to feel flies crawling across your skin in the tens, the hundreds, the millions! I ordered my copy from a bookseller who just happens to be located in the UK (where they spell it 'lokated,' no doubt, and the title of these films is spelt 'The Fleigh'). But the story originates with a French writer who happened to sell a story to a US magazine. I wonder if that means he had to translate it from the French. Or perhaps someone else translated it from the French. Or, could it be possible, George Langelaan might have written it in English originally!

I had no luck finding an electronic copy for free, so in case you want to make a purchase, look here (some of these promise a free download, but...), and here, and here. It's possible that none are available to buy at the moment. The book I found is a 1966 edition paperback.


The 1958 Film, The Fly Image

For those of you who live for HD, you will be sad to learn that there is no Blu-ray issue available. Yet. See?

ImageImageImage
If you're happy with DVD quality, there are several editions available. The 1958 film doesn't seem to come all by itself.

The Fly Double Take has both movies, although few extras. This is what I bought because I can grab stills from DVDs, but not Blu-rays on my system. It includes the two discs that Netflix had shipped me for each film. The link is to Amazon. But it is also available from MoviesUnlimited, and DeepDiscount.


ImageImageImage Image
Live in Region 2? Amazon has a 2-feature DVD with The Fly and Return of the Fly. Here is the same thing from Amazon for Region 1.

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The Fly Collection has the original and two sequels to the 1958 film. Amazon. Deepdiscount. Movies Unlimited.

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iTunes has the 1958 film available to download. I actually had never searched for a source on iTunes for any move, but they have both of these! Not that it's a surprise worth an exclamation point, of course.

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Don't want to buy it but want to set eyes upon its cinematic mysteries? Amazon offers this movie for rental on its Instant Video feature.

ImageImageImage
Netflix has the DVD only, for now. If you have Netflix, add the movie to your queue here.
If you think you might die without seeing it and that would be a terrible shame, Netflix also has Return of the Fly available. Talk about sheer horror, I hear it's really bad.

ImageImageImage
For now, a YouTube user has posted the entire 1958 film as a lower resolution mp4. This is not guaranteed to remain in place! But for now...
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ImageImageImage
Music from The Fly
There is nearly nothing available for the 1958 film soundtrack. I'm sure some creative and persistent Googling might turn up a link to an available LP in a used record shop online. I located a place that sells a combo CD of the music from The Fly, Return of the Fly, and The Curse of the Fly. And I located another site that sells a CD of the 1958 film music only, but I can't vouch for the quality or legitimacy of the CD.

ImageImageImage
Sorry, but we cannot turn to YouTube for the music from the 1958 film. There are no clips posted as of the day I put this information up in the Rematch thread.

ImageImageImage
You can get the 1958 and 1959 soundtracks as digital files from iTunes.


The 1986 film, David Cronenberg's The Fly Image

Now, for David Cronenberg's m0stly different film (and by that I mean it's m0stly different from all films, not only Cronenberg's other films) both Blu and DVD sources at online retailers.

ImageImageImage
The Blu-ray issue is replete with extras, or so I hear, and it's in HD, and it won't break the bank. Get it from Amazon, Deep Discount, Barnes&Noble, even Target.

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There are a couple of different options for those able to stomach DVDs. One is the 2-Disc Collector's edition of the 1986 film.
Deep Discount. The TCM Shop. Amazon.

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I find this out of print DVD available at only one place: Amazon Marketplace. And, uh, that's probably enough.

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A similar set was released in 2011 as The Fly Collection. Available at WalMart, Critic's Choice Video, and even Amazon.

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iTunes has the 1986 film available to download.

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Don't want to buy? For now, this film is available on Amazon Instant Video.

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Netflix has the DVD and the Blu! If you have teh Flix, reserve the movie here. Teleporter pods not included. If your Halloween-style viewing cravings are not finished, you can watch a second film, because people got a hankering to make more money on Cronenberg's idea. Yes, Netflix will foist The Fly II upon you at your own insistence. Beware, I'm told this is worse than the sequel to the 1958 film. One Amazon reviewer's title is "A sequel of a remake? Not a good idea." *shudders*

Music from David Cronenberg's The Fly
ImageImageImage
You can find the CD in a few places. You can get the music from the 1986 film by itself, or with the music from the 1989 sequel.

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The 1986 music alone. Amazon Marketplace. CD is out of print. As far as I can tell, there is no other source. Not even an ebay.com link shows up in my search.

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The combo CD. allmusic by rovi...but apparently there is no way to purchase the CD here. As you can see below, not even iTunes has these tracks available in their format. I don't see any other source for these tracks. Maybe I overlooked something.

ImageImageImage
Neither Amazon, nor iTunes nor any other legitimate site has the soundtrack available for sale as mp3 files. As nearly as I could tell from my Google searches, that is. Of course, you can always buy the CD and rip a set of mp3s for your player on your own.

ImageImageImage
YouTube has clips from this film, some of which contain the soundtrack cuts. I don't think the entire soundtrack is there, you can buy mp3s for that. Once again, a few clips and spoilertag sleekness.
Here are two sources for the entire 1986 Howard Shore soundtrack. You know, in case one set gets taken down.

"The Fly (1986) Soundtrack - Main Title" The poster ScaryGhost99 has posted all the cuts from the 1986 film, it seems. Here's a Google Search link.


"The Fly Soundtrack - Tracks 1, 2, 3, 4" first of two uploaded by SarahBrightmanFan299


"The Fly Soundtrack - Tracks 5, 6, 7, 8, 9" second of two uploaded by SarahBrightmanFan299
Do You Like Movie Posters?
ImageImageImage
There are websites with images of movie posters, but also sites where you can buy posters for your decor.
MoviePosterShop. MovieGoods.com. MoviePosterDatabase. A gallery at Art.com.
You could even do your own search for The Fly posters!




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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:36 pm

Image

A Comparison of The Fly (1958) and The Fly (1986)
Lines You Might Like
Image
Both films have a punchy most-often-quoted line. You already know these two lines, and you will recognize them, even if you haven't seen the film from which the line was pulled. The 1986 film has it all over the original movie when it comes to memorable lines. Just do a search on the 'Net to learn that. I found a transcript of the 1958 dialogue, but the person who posted it hasn't put in character names or the description of the action. Perhaps it's simply pulled from a subtitles file?


Image
Memorable lines from The Fly 1958
Insp. Charas: He put his head and his arm under the press. Why?
Hélène Delambre: I cannot answer that question; coffee, Inspector?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Gaston: Mademoiselle Dandelo has found another. You will never see her again.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Gaston the Security Guard [on phone to François Delambre]: Monsieur François? Gaston. I tried to call you. Something terrible has happened! A man is dead. His head is under the press! And I saw a woman running... running away!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
François Delambre: No, Hélène and André believed in the sacredness of life. They wouldn't harm anything... not even a fly.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
André Delambre: [about the cat killed by the transporter] She disintegrated perfectly, but never reappeared.
Hélène Delambre: Where's she gone?
André Delambre: Into space... a stream of cat atoms...
[sighs]
André Delambre: It'd be funny if life weren't so sacred.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[François and his nephew Philippe are dining at a large table.]
Philippe: Uncle?
François: Yes, Philippe?
Philippe: When's Daddy coming home?
François: Soon.
Philippe: Can I see Mummy again tomorrow?
François: Yes.
Philippe: She's very sick, isn't she?
François: Yes, Philippe, she's very sick.
Philippe: Do flies live a long time?
François: I don't know. Why?
Philippe: Because I saw that fly Mummy was looking for again.
François: I didn't know she was looking for one.
Philippe: Oh, yes, she was. It's grown quite a lot. But I recognised it all right.
[Philippe drinks some of his watered-down wine]
Philippe: Mm, this is good.
François: How did you recognise it, Philippe?
Philippe: Its head is white instead of black and it has a funny sort of leg.
[There is a pause while they eat]
Philippe: It was on your desk this morning.
François: Oh? I didn't notice it. When did you first see that fly, Philippe?
Philippe: The day Daddy went away. I had caught it, but Mummy made me let it go. And then later, she wanted me to find it again. She'd changed her mind. You know how women are.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
André: Humanity need never want or fear again. I'm a very fortunate man, Hélène.
Hélène: I'm a very fortunate woman.
[she looks at the reintegrated ashtray in her hand and smiles]
Don't ever transmit me. I wouldn't want to come out like this.
André: What do you mean?[He looks at the ashtray, the words 'Made In Japan' are backwards on the bottom]
Hélène: Well, it doesn't matter, does it, André?
[He ignores her and begins to do figuring at his desk]
... André...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
André Delambre: Help me! Help meeee!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
François Delambre: You've commited murder just as much as Hélène did. You killed a fly with a human head. She killed a human with a fly head.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Here is the IMDb quotes page for the 1958 The Fly.


Image
Memorable lines from The Fly 1986
Seth Brundle: It's not ready yet.
Veronica Quaife: It seems to work okay...
Seth Brundle: No, something important's missing.
Veronica Quaife: Yeah?
Seth Brundle: Yeah.
Veronica Quaife: Which is?
Seth Brundle: I can only teleport inanimate objects.
Veronica Quaife: Well, what happens when you try to teleport living things?
Seth Brundle: Not while we're eating.
Veronica Quaife: [pointing on her cheeseburger] It can't be worse than this.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Ronnie" is short for "Veronica"
Ronnie: Do you ever change your clothes?
Seth Brundle: What?
Seth Brundle: Your clothes. You're always wearing the same clothes.
Seth Brundle: No, these are clean. I change my clothes every day.
Ronnie: [Veronica looks into his closet and finds five sets of the same suits, ties, shoes and pants] Five sets of exactly the same clothes?
Seth Brundle: Learned it from Einstein. This way I don't have to expand my thought on what I have to wear next, I just grab the next set on the rack.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ronnie: [after an unsuccessful test of the telepods] We've gotta do this, Seth. Talk to the tape. Get in the habbit. The world will want to know what you're thinking.
Seth Brundle: Fuck! is what I'm thinking.
Ronnie: Good... The world will want to know that... What else? Why didn't it work.
Seth Brundle: [Disappointedly] I think it turned the baboon inside-out.
Ronnie: Why?
Seth Brundle: [sigh] It can't cope with the flesh. It only seems to work on inanimate objects; nothing that's living.
Ronnie: Why?
Seth Brundle: [pause] Computers are dumb. They only know what you tell them... I must not know enough about the flesh myself. I'm gonna have to learn.
[Long pause]
Seth Brundle: I don't wanna talk now.
[Ronnie turns off the camera and watches Seth sympathetically as he walks away with his head held low in disappointment]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Seth Brundle: I farm bits and pieces out to the guys who are much more brilliant than I am. I say, "build me a laser", this. "Design me a molecular analyzer", that. They do, and I just stick 'em together. But, none of them know what the project really is. So...
Veronica Quaife: Wow! And, uh, the money? Bartok Science Industries Financed this?
Seth Brundle: Hmm-mmm... But they leave me alone, 'cause I'm not expensive. And they know they'll end up owning it, whatever it is.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Seth Brundle: Brundle, Seth. Give me a disc. Uh, I need first the teleportation S. Brundle.
Computer: [displays presence of primary and secondary teleportation elements]
Seth Brundle: [typing] If primary element is Brundle, what is secondary element?
Computer: Secondary element is not-Brundle.
Seth Brundle: Run sequence.
Computer: [identifies secondary element as a fly]
Seth Brundle: [typing] If secondary element is fly, what happened to fly?
Computer: Fusion.
Seth Brundle: [typing] Assimilation? Did Brundle absorb fly?
Computer: Negative. Fusion of Brundle and fly at molecular-genetic level.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Veronica Quaife: You're changing Seth. Everything about you is changing. You look bad. You smell bad.
Seth Brundle: I've never been much of a bather.
Veronica Quaife: Those... weird hairs that were growing out of your back. I took them to a lab. I had them analyzed.
Seth Brundle: The hairs? The hairs? Oh... Yeah, that's a strange thing to do.
Veronica Quaife: Not as strange as the results. The guy at the lab had trouble identifying them. He finally came to the conclusion, that they were definitely not human.
Seth Brundle: Oh... Very good.
Veronica Quaife: Not human, Seth. In fact... very insect-like hairs.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Tawny: [after Seth says it's Tawny's turn to teleport] I'm afraid.
Seth Brundle: Don't be afraid.
Veronica: No. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Veronica Quaife: I'm pregnant.
Stathis Borans: [dismissive] Oh, no.
[reality kicking in]
Stathis Borans: Oh, no.
Veronica Quaife: I'm pregnant with Seth's baby.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Seth Brundle: [to Veronica] Help me. Help me be human.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Seth Brundle: You have to leave now, and never come back here. Have you ever heard of insect politics? Neither have I. Insects... don't have politics. They're very... brutal. No compassion, no compromise. We can't trust the insect. I'd like to become the first... insect politician. Y'see, I'd like to, but... I'm afraid, uh...
Ronnie: I don't know what you're trying to say.
Seth Brundle: I'm saying... I'm saying I - I'm an insect who dreamt he was a man and loved it. But now the dream is over... and the insect is awake.
Ronnie: No. no, Seth...
Seth Brundle: I'm saying... I'll hurt you if you stay.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Seth Brundle: What's there to take? The disease has just revealed its purpose. We don't have to worry about contagion anymore... I know what the disease wants.
Ronnie: What does the disease want?
Seth Brundle: It wants to... turn me into something else. That's not too terrible is it? Most people would give anything to be turned into something else.
Ronnie: Turned into what?
Seth Brundle: Whaddaya think? A fly. Am I becoming a hundred-and-eighty-five-pound fly? No, I'm becoming something that never existed before. I'm becoming... Brundlefly. Don't you think that's worth a Nobel Prize or two?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Seth Brundle: (his last words before his final transformation) - We'll be the ultimate family. A family of three joined together in one body. More human than I am alone.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Here is the IMDb quotes page for the 1986 The Fly.


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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:25 am

Heh, "Brundlefly."
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:17 am

War of the Worlds (Spielberg, 2005)

3rd viewing last night. Thought it was better than my original impression. The live action mixed with computer-generated effects is quite good. Was this a candidate for a matchup, Gort?
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:55 am

dreiser wrote:War of the Worlds (Spielberg, 2005)

3rd viewing last night. Thought it was better than my original impression. The live action mixed with computer-generated effects is quite good. Was this a candidate for a matchup, Gort?
In my mind it was. It didn't make it into the nominations list. I own the 1953 version. You must recall my comment way back whenever that I liked the Spielberg update much less than the '53 movie. I have seen it only once, though. It could grow on me as it did with your re-watches. I do love the horrific effect of the alien zapper rays disintegrating people, but leaving their garments to waft to the ground. :D My biggest problem with it is Mr Cruise. I generally don't care for him in movies, other than Magnolia (where he was cast as himself, apparently!). And I guess he's tolerable in Minority Report.

I've also recently read A Christmas Carol, and I've seen a number of screen adaptations. That would be a good Christmas 2013 Rematch to tackle.

There are so many interesting possibilities!
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:21 am

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A Comparison of The Fly (1958) and The Fly (1986)
Guiding the Product

Image

Kurt Neumann was a German who left his homeland in 1930 to come to America and work in the movie business. At first he directed German-language versions of films that were being produced in English. Later he did second-unit work, directed a few English language films including one with Basil Rathbone in the lead, and then lucked into steady work as the director of the Tarzan franchise. Should he have walked away from that? Tarzan's light as a property was waning. He was always a fan of science fiction, and in his later life he got directorial gigs on science fiction films. The trouble was that horror, Tarzan and science fiction in those days didn't command A-film budgets. A lot of people saw Neumann's work as the second film on a double-feature bill.


David Cronenberg is a star director, not quite of the brilliance that Alfred Hitchcock achieved, but I daresay that most cinephiles worldwide would know his name. I think the ones who do not know of him would be young people just beginning to make love to the art of film. Cronenberg is a Canadian who has made a large number of films in the US. I can't say that Cronenberg is type-cast in the way Hitchcock was. People are willing to see his take on stories that would be force-fitted into different genres. But he has a certain sensibility that makes you aware that you are watching something from the mind of Cronenberg. He often writes his own screenplays. And if you see sweetness and light in one of his properties it isn't going to last for long.

Cronenberg is not known for withholding an opinion. If you want to read a bright opinion about a particular director, look at the catalog for a school that has hired him to teach.

And who knows what the future will hold for films with Cronenberg as the director's surname?

It is interesting that both men who directed adaptations of George Langelaan's short story (one a rather strict adaptation, the other merely suggestive of Langelaan) have a sensibility to go for the downside of life on screen. Both handle bizarrity quite well, because they understand the bizarre. They know how to keep their tales within the realm of the expected as set up by the film itself. Thus, the ending of Neumann's Rocketship XM. Or the ending of Cronenberg's Eastern Promises. Well, virtually any Cronenberg film. Not everything goes all that well for all the characters.

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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:08 pm

What's happened to my projected schedule this past week is what I was trying to have not happen.

Real life intervened, forcing reel life to the sides.

This makes me really concerned that Quickmatches are going to take longer than 2 weeks.

Back to being busy. Sorry to have bothered you.
Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:04 pm

I'd rather be bothered by YTMN than that pesky Gort fellow any day...
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by dreiser » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:21 am

You're so bothersome, Gort.
"I hate the dark, the sharks liars. And the stems of cherry..."

Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012) 4/10
Killing Them Softly (Dominik, 2012) 2/10
The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm (Pal/Levin, 1962) 6/10
The Dark Past (Mate', 1948) 7/10
New Rose Hotel (Ferrara, 1998) 3/10
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:11 am

The Fly (1958) dir. Kurt Neumann
Image

IMDb link RT-link

Year: 1958 Director: Kurt Neumann Cast: Al Hedison, Patricia Owens, Vincent Price, Herbert Marshall Length: 94 min. Color/Stereo

I thought I had seen this film long ago, but when I finally sat down to watch it in 2008, I realized that I had seen the sequel. I was confused about that for years because I watched Return of the Fly on a black and white TV. And the DVD box said the film was in color. A very low budget documentary I own has an excerpt of an interview with Vincent Price who says that he was baffled by the fact that the sequel was made in color (which to his mind was backward: "You don't make a film in color and then a sequel in black and white!"). That got me to thinking...had I seen the first film? Maybe not. So, I checked out the DVD from the library and...well, you know the rest.
Image
Indeed, The Fly is in color. The color design is quite rich, but befits the darkness of the storyline. A purposeful contrast exists between Helene's boudoir and André's laboratory. There isn't as much red in the film as I expected, although it turns up in odd places, such as the smoking jacket that Vincent Price is wearing when we first see him on the night of André's murder. Also, I had never before seen a color photo of the flugly head that Al Hedison (later David Hedison) wore after his transformation.

The film is fairly straightforward, as is the short story that inspired it. I say this even though a third of the film is a flashback. There is very little about the film that overtly attempts to bring about horror. But the undercurrent of the story is one that causes you to cringe when you think about what it would be like to experience this. Perhaps that is the best kind of horror.

The photography is also straightforward, lacking much that is innovative. But it is serviceable. This probably stems from Neumann's low budget. The cast is not made up of well-known actors and actresses. Even though Vincent Price had been appearing in films and eventually on TV since 1938, this film launched him into a second career as a fright jockey. There is absolutely nothing remotely frightening about the part he plays in this film. And as an actor he gets third billing. But his ability to sound creepily interesting made him perfect for this kind of film.
Image
Yet, the overall impression that this film leaves has made it a classic. The ending scenes include a fly with a white head pleading to be rescued from a spider. That probably gives it a permanent cachet. There are some really stupid things in this film, though. Even so, it doesn't deserve the derision that has sometimes been heaped upon it. It does develop tension and suspense. Having Al Hedison's head covered by a velvet cloth for much of the time he is on-screen really makes you want to see what's beneath it. It's fairly easy to forgive the flaws and simply enjoy the story.

As for themes, does something so basic have any? I think so. There is a scientist who is not mad here, merely driven. But his curiosity leads him to actually kill the cat, who was not curious, merely happened to be in the wrong lab at the wrong time. Thus, we have the theme of going where no man should ever go. That's the one that propels Jurassic Park, you know. And there is the theme of undying love. This is an undeniably romantic film. You can imagine it with music. The successor to this film, Cronenberg's version, actually was made into an opera by Howard Shore. It has the ideas of an opera, even in this original version. Perhaps someone should adapt the Langelaan version of the story into an opera? You, maybe?

Here are some aspects of the film that I like, and some that I don't care for:

Like: For 1958 this film was as disturbing as the remake was in 1986. It's hard to imagine that back then there were just things you didn't show in a movie. It was for fear of upsetting, thus alienating, members of the audience. But the producers used a lot of red paint or whatever in the press scene, which in a color film would have been jarring back then. Are we fortunate or is it dismal that it now seems so wimpy?

Like: Hedison and Patricia Owens who plays his wife seem to really be in love. This makes her situation all the more horrible given what she does that starts the plot rolling.
Image
Like: A very clever justification is used for having a third of the film being told in flashback (the same technique is used in the short story). It is the recollection of a woman accused of murdering her husband; and it is told by her as justification of her action. This keeps it from being the idle memories of a character, and turns it into a plea for understanding. Of course, to her, having lived through all this unexpected horror, it is a simple statement of fact. The police inspector understandably decides that she is mad.

Like: The young actor hired to play Philippe (Henri in the short story) is not obnoxious. Many kid actors in the 50s were obnoxious because they were so cloyingly sweet, or so obviously delinquent. This kid seems pretty much like a kid.

Like: This film has withstood the test of time. What I like about this is that it didn't have a huge budget, it didn't have big-name stars, but it had a certain something that continues to resonate with audiences. This makes it difficult to assess it as poorly-made. One reviewer proclaims The Fly to be Neumann's very best film.

And now, the inevitable list of things that don't quite sit well with me:

Don't Like: OMG the plotholes! As I have argued before, you can't tell a story without plot holes. And if everything in a tale had to make complete sense, we wouldn't have tales to tell. But there are just so many things you start wondering about after you watch this, especially for the second or third time. I was looking for screenplays posted online, but found a review in which the writer mirrors my own thoughts about one aspect of this film:
Richard Scheib at Moria.com wrote:The Fly, adapted from George Langelaan’s short story, which first appeared in Playboy in 1957, was James Clavell’s first screen credit. Clavell certainly makes some basic errors in reason. The physiological problems that might be presented by a fly with a human’s head on its body and in particular a human with a fly’s head on its body are never addressed. You keep wondering how Andre is able to think and clearly draw on his own memories and scientific expertise while he has a fly’s head attached to his shoulders.
In defense of Clavell, Langelaan also ignores these questions and simply tells a simple story.

Don't Like: Patricia Owens is a competent movie screamer, but the second screaming scene in which she shows off this talent is sheer gratuitous screaming and so stupidly contrived that it's laughable. Is the scene included for emotional purposes and not supposed to be realistic? Maybe. Because it isn't realistic!
Image
Don't Like: The characters are drawn so rigidly, and played like the stereotypes from a Tarzan movie. Okay, there's a reason for that, perhaps. Neumann directed many Tarzan films. Perhaps he wanted there to be no doubt in the minds of younger viewers how each character viewed the goings-on. This isn't something that makes the film unenjoyable, but there is little or no subtlety in the playing of the roles. I admit that the same characteristic is present in the short story, but it doesn't seem so blatant.

Don't Like: One scene in particular with Hedison wrestling with the fly hand is a bit goofy. I mean, where would the hand attached to his body get the leverage to stop him from walking if he wanted to? Thing is, the first time you see it this doesn't seem to be nonsense! Only when you re-watch the film does this pop out at you. And for me it became instantly unlikable. An immediate predecessor to this moment, with the fly arm creeping up toward Helene's head is played quite well. This must be what critics mean when they say something is "uneven."

Don't Like: Although it plays kind of well in the moment, if you think about it only a tiny bit you realize that you have two eyes...but they don't see two images. They overlap to create a single image of the world around you. The same thing happens with the myriad lenses of a fly's eyes. Except in this movie!
Image


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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:17 pm

Image

A Comparison of The Fly (1958) and The Fly (1986)
The Sum of the Parts

Image
Someone has to take all the footage that is shot and cut it into shape. Without this person there would be no finished film to show. The editor and his or her staff is as important to the films we see as the writer or director. Although the director is usually present in the cutting room, it is the editor who knows how to do the cutting and splicing, who has a solid sense of rhythm and a keen eye for good shots and performances. Of course not all editors are crackerjack at their job. But many are known for saving films that would otherwise be ... unwatchable. So, I guess what I'm saying is that Neumann and Cronenberg had editors on their film crews.

Sadly, I couldn't find much information about either man.

The Fly (1958)
Kurt Neumann's raw footage was trimmed and spliced by Merrill G. White. In 1927 he got a screen credit for a film called The Broken Gate, and his career as a film editor took him the rest of his life to complete. The Fly is his next to last screen credit, and the last film he did with Kurt Neumann. Apparently, their first collaboration was Tarzan and the Huntress in 1947. White was editor on the 1951 film The Girl on the Bridge, and the 1953 schlock-fest Robot Monster. White also has credits as a screenwriter and producer. I was unable to locate any photos of him online. The closest I came was this site. Merrill White's final editorial job was on the 1959 release Crime and Punishment, USA.

The Fly (1986)
David Cronenberg's editor in 1986 was Ronald Sanders, who has continued to work with Cronenberg. In fact, editing The Fly was continuing to work with Cronenberg, since their first collaboration was the 1979 film Fast Company. In between Cronenberg projects he has been known to dabble in other types of film, such as You Got Served: Beat the World for reasons which are his own, I'm sure. Sanders has won awards from his own in crowd, but has never been nominated for the type of film awards that the rest of us hear about. I found what seemed to be a promising link to an interview article on ioncinema, but the URL has disallowed characters, and I cannot go there! I found little about him. Here's a link to another filmography on the Coraline page at focus features. Sanders was, of course, the editor on Cronenberg's 2012 release Cosmopolis[/url].



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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:28 pm

Image

A Comparison of The Fly (1958) and The Fly (1986)
Light and Composition

Image
Both the Directors of Photography on these films worked on over 117 films in their careers (so far, for Irwin, 144 for Struss). Both worked in many genres. This breadth of work gave them a lot of experience to bring to bear on their respective films entitled The Fly. If you click the links below you will see a huge number of familiar titles in both mens' lists.

Image
The Fly (1958)
Karl Struss shot only seven more films after he worked with Kurt Neumann on The Fly. He worked with Neumann for the last time on Machete in 1958. Another name from this thread turns up in Struss's filmography; in 1959 he worked with Roy Del Ruth on Alligator People (Del Ruth directed the 1931 adaptation of The Maltese Falcon). Struss lived to be 95 years old, and he was 72 when he supervised photography on The Fly. He shot four films that were released in 1958, five films that were released in 1959, and then he retired.

Struss was born in New York City in 1886, and worked past the time when widescreen, color, and 3D had made their bow in commercial cinema. I found several articles about the man, but because I'm trying to keep these posts shorter, I'll provide only links. Karl Struss: Stereo Pictorialist By Ray Zone details Struss's innovative 3D cinematography career, at 3dgear.com. Struss has the lead segment in Where Do We Go Now? “Avatar” and Beyond by John Bailey, ASC, at the American Society of Cinematographers website. Karl Struss is a biography of the man at cinematographers.nl (which could be Kurz's site, for all I know!). If you read these you will learn that Struss was not only a cinema photographer, but a still photographer, an inventor (the Struss Lens became very popular for portrait photography), the man behind the lens of some very influential movies (Sunrise: a Song of Two Humans among them).
He therefore decided to go straight to Los Angeles in 1919 as soon as he was discharged from the army. He became still photographer for director Cecil B. DeMille. Being trained as an artist-photographer enabled him to quickly stand out in the field. He soon turned from still photography to cinematography and would become one of the first generation of artistic cinematographers.
In 1920 he supervised his first motion picture shoot. He retired 144 films and TV series later. After his Oscar for Sunrise he was nominated another three times, but didn't win. The second nom was in 1932 for Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (1931). In that film Struss invented a way to show a transformation between the two personas of the main character without using stop motion or any other practical effect--other than lighting. He used the varying sensitivity of the film of the day to different wavelengths of light, and simply did a lighting transformation to change Frederic March from Jekyll to Hyde.

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The Fly (1986)
Mark Irwin noticed one day that the film in his dad's filmstrip projector was upside down, so he respooled it and made it rightside up in the gate. This led to problems, and he says it was his first lesson about optics. He became "the AV geek who pushed the little cart with the 16mm film, slide and filmstrip projectors from schoolroom to schoolroom. That led me to an interest in taking pictures. I began shooting little movies in 1963 or 1964. We bought a Bolex Double 8 camera." Irwin's seventh professional credit as DP came on the 1979 release Fast Company which was edited by Ronald Sanders, and directed by David Cronenberg. It was the first collaboration, but not the last. Since his first paid gig in 1976 Irwin has worked on theatrical films, TV movies, and documentaries regularly. His work has brought imagery to the screen for projects as varied as The Blob (1988) and A Child's Christmas in Wales from the year before. He has designed and executed lighting photography for documentaries, and comedies (Dumb & Dumber), for schlock failures (Steel) and relatively big hits (Scream). Someone called him "the hardest working man in Hollywood."

His own field has awarded him with statuettes to commend his work on Videodrome, The Dead Zone, Youngblood, and The Fly (2 in 1983, 2 in 1986 from the CSC). He has never been nominated for more popularly-recognized awards.

Irwin's work on The Fly is atmospheric and sometimes can make your skin crawl. His lighting of the telepods is so iconic that it became the primary poster image for the promotion of the film. There is an interview with Irwin on the ASC website. And cinematographers.nl has a biography page for Irwin.

It is easy to understand why both these films look so good. The selected camera angles in the 1958 film are, as I wrote in the review for that film, rather pedestrian. But that is probably because of the style of the day coupled with what Neumann wanted. The best DPs allow the director's vision to come through as much as their own. The job allows you to be creative, but requires you to place your creative impulses at the disposal of the director, and that allows you to be a chameleon, transforming your energies to fit the project you are working on right now.



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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:35 pm

ribbon, as the recommender, what do you think of the Rematch for The Fly so far? Have you had time to read what little I've posted? The review of Cronenberg's flick is scheduled for this Saturday, but I had trouble last weekend, and couldn't post until Monday. It looks possible to keep the schedule this time.

*crosses fingers*
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"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:48 pm

The Fly (1986) dir. David Cronenberg
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IMDb link RT-link

Year: 1986 - Director: David Cronenberg - Cast: Jeff Goldblum, Gena Davis, John Getz - Length: 96 min. Color/Stereo

I was doing laundry, which for some strange reason involved the ironing of trousers and shirts one Saturday in 1994. I'm slow at ironing if I do it right. And I don't like doing the chore, so usually I leave it off. That's why it was a strange Saturday. I was ironing. To let you know how much of a backlog I had, and how long it took me, I watched The Fly with commercial breaks, and most of Enemy Mine with commercial breaks while loads would complete, and get hung up on racks to dry (I had no dryer in that old townhouse) and I would pick out the pieces to iron.

It was a version of The Fly that I knew I had never seen. As I explained in the review for the original film, for a long time I thought I had seen the 1958 original, but I had seen the sequel Return of the Fly from 1959. At that time I thought I was watching the remake of the one I had seen as a teenager.
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To my astonishment (when I watched the DVD version for this thread, and realized that) the UHF TV station that showed the film in Memphis didn't cut anything other than language. Apparently the soundtrack was altered for television broadcast, but the near-nudity and intense gruesomeness of the film was left as is. That time, and after my first viewing for the Rematch I found myself quite disturbed by the film. It was a subliminal disturbance, a sort of unease that didn't stop me from doing anything but followed me around. In 1994, I knew that David Cronenberg (whose name I had read but about whom I knew zilch) had created a movie that affected me. It was an intellectual uneasiness. I thought about this film, and what it showed, but also what it stands for.

This went on for days after the first viewing. Imagine how it might have affected me if it hadn't been interrupted by ads every few minutes!

I wasn't astonished to hear Cronenberg confess on the commentary track that after he viewed the film for the first time since 1986, in order to prepare for the commentary track recording session, it left him feeling disturbed. Somehow, he says, it bypassed his usual daily journal of revived memories that pop up when he watches one of his completed films, and he found himself getting wrapped up in the imagery, the story, the characters. I've watched my own videos years after production, so I know exactly the effect he's talking about, and it's a mark of how effective the film is that it occluded the director's normal response when he watched it again.

This is a very powerful film. It has humor, but it is so dark as to elicit nothing stronger than a sense of irony in the viewer. It's a twist, but the things I like about the film are often gory and ugly on the screen, yet they seem to say something interesting about the human condition and human nature. Cronenberg never holds back from being critical of his characters within his screenplays, and in this case his fascination was centered on what the scientist being transformed thought of the process. How the experience affected him. So he makes the scientist, Seth Brundle, quite an articulate, verbal fellow, and his lover is a reporter who is assigned to do an article on him. They decide to record everything that Brundle does, and it's her idea that he should articulate his successes and failures on video. It is like documenting a person's descent into drug addiction, but an inexorable kind of drug addiction for which there is no cure or escape.
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The 1986 adaptation of The Fly is a chronicle of degradation and ruin, certainly a human condition, but one we always hope to avoid and most often never see ourselves sliding into. There is no redemption. In that sense it parallels the relentless darkness of the noir film Detour, or Visconti's 1943 Ossessione.

Cronenberg, as scriptwriter, examines a lot of questions about the human condition; about becoming something new (which is not necessarily or always a good thing); about relationships and how we don't know everything about those to whom we are attracted. We don't know anything, really. In a sense, these are the same questions George Langelaan posed, but he didn't seek to answer them. For the original short story Langelaan was satisfied with merely conjuring a tale that would ask the questions. Or it seems so. Kurt Neumann and James Clavell were content to merely translate those questions into cinematic form. Cronenberg, by his nature, wants to poke and prod the questions, and to proffer possible answers to those questions. This makes his film the kind that I like to watch, but to also ponder after watching. That it caused the director to do the same when he watched it years later is a good thing, I think.


Here are a few aspects of the film that I like:

Like We aren't shielded from anything by cinematic propriety. Just as the 1958 film was bold in its day, Cronenberg's 1986 film showers us with boldness: language and imagery that could not appear in any other genre, even in 1986. Because this is a horror film, it gets away with characterizations, relationships, and things that happen that you couldn't have had go on in a crime film of the era. At least Cronenberg says in the commentary that he'd never have gotten a lot of aspects past the studio bosses if he'd been making anything other than a horror movie.

Like The chemistry between Davis and Goldblum is good. Ronnie seems unable to totally disengage once she learns what is happening to Seth, and Davis portrays that well. She manages to balance repulsion with latent attraction, while Goldblum makes Seth both the vicious predatory fly, and a caring man who doesn't want to hurt the woman he loves. This successfully retains the romantic aspect between Mr and Mrs Delambre in the original story and the 1958 film, but gives it a new, grisly twist.
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Like There are some real shocks in this film for first-time viewers. I found myself thinking, "I can't belive Cronenberg just showed that," several times when I watched the film on TV. Of course my second and third viewings came with prior knowledge of everything, so the shocks are gone. But the film accomplished that in the beginning.

Like This script tosses in frustrating moments. Sometimes those filmic moments are frustrating because of badness in the writer's skills, but in this case the writer has all the skills he needs; it's plot elements that frustrate the viewer's expectations. The cool thing about this is that you sometimes feel frustrated that Seth can't rampage the way you thought he would. And you really don't want him to do the things he would do, it's just that...for the most part Cronenberg is a good writer.

Like Cronenberg's choice to examine the internal workings of Dr Brundle's transformation. The fact that he makes the transformation slow, and mysterious, even to the victim. And, the fact that Seth is given Veronica as an ally during his transformation to play our part in reacting to what is going on.

Like Once again, David Cronenberg shows us ugly things, very ugly things in such a manner that we cannot look away.


Even when I rant positively about a film you've learned by now that there are a few things I don't like, or wish were different. Here are the whiny parts of this review. I haven't changed any of them, but as I edited the post I realized that they all stem more or less from the same thing:
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Don't Like The film eases into territory where the grossness is just a little much. This is intentional, of course, but I respond to all that in just the way Cronenberg expected: it grosses me out. I can only imagine how horrific this all seems to someone with a lower threshhold of gross-out than I have. My threshold is extraordinarily high, as a matter of fact. Some who might otherwise enjoy the horrific nature may shun the film from the first point of ook, which occurs within the first 10 minutes of the run time. Those folks will miss all the wonderfulness that ensues later. A shame.

Don't Like Possibly because of Cronenberg's skewed sense of humor, in the last act of the movie he begins to play with situations and plot developments that have you (me at least) thinking that some boundary of reasonableness has been crossed. In other words, he seems to veer outside the world he has created for the movie, transforming it into something he hasn't prepared us for. This may be intentional. After all, how could Seth and Ronnie have been prepared for what happens in the first 2/3 of the film? In a sense my objection is like crying out for scientific accuracy to reign in a Godzilla movie. It's more an emotional response than an intellectual one. And because it forces a different reaction from me intellectually than I get in my gut, I find it unlikable. But it certainly doesn't ruin the film! The next point is related to this:

Don't Like Although Stathis Borans is supposed to be an ambivalent character, according to Cronenberg on the commentary, I don't like him at all. He's a meddler, and that's how he's supposed to be, but there just seems something ad-hoc about him, as if Cronenberg thought at the last minute, "Oh, we need an adversary and a rival for Seth Brundle." Perhaps you don't see him that way, and if not, I'd like to hear from you. It's how he always strikes me, and I wish he wasn't in the movie.

Don't Like Ultimately, Ronnie is left to face this thing she stumbled into all by herself. Having gone through a divorce I understand what the character faces; real life men and women face situations like that, and it's excruciating. There is no Right Thing to be done. Only wrong things that present themselves as alternatives. The very end of this film is like that. Ronnie does what anyone about to toss their cookies would have done in the same situation, probably. I can't say that I would or wouldn't. I'm not likely to face a situation exactly like that. But I dislike that there is no one who offers her any real support. Stathis tries without success, but I like pretending that he doesn't exist.

Don't Like Okay, this has to come up. How does Seth talk if his mouth has become a feeding tube? Huh? I hate it that the thought occurred to me. André Delambre can't talk in the 1958 film, but Seth talks right up until the time that his skin sloughs off. Oops. So, what do I dislike: that Cronenberg didn't catch this, or that I thought of it? Not sure.




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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:04 pm

Once again, David Cronenberg shows us ugly things, very ugly things in such a manner that we cannot look away.
Cronenberg is so good at this. One of his greatest strengths in presenting his vision to viewers.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:44 pm

Hank wrote: Cronenberg is so good at this. One of his greatest strengths in presenting his vision to viewers.
He certainly doesn't hold back! :D
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by ribbon » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:49 pm

Great write-ups for both films! I also agree a lot with the pros/cons. Though Cronenberg's far outside the box sense of humor really works for me in this one. & most, really.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:42 pm

ribbon wrote:Great write-ups for both films! I also agree a lot with the pros/cons. Though Cronenberg's far outside the box sense of humor really works for me in this one. & most, really.
Do the jokes in The Fly make you chuckle aloud, or only smile wryly? I can't think of any that actually made me laugh, but I like the jokes. I guess the closest I came to an actual laugh was when I first saw the Brundlefly
break into the gynecologist's office and "rescue" Veronica.
It's such an offbeat moment, yet afterward it seems like what you should have expected. KnowutImean?
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by Hank » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:00 am

I don't think I've actually laughed at Cronenberg's The Fly. But it's been years. Should probably watch it again for Halloween.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:29 am

Hank wrote:I don't think I've actually laughed at Cronenberg's The Fly. But it's been years. Should probably watch it again for Halloween.
His Fly is a halloween type film. The Neumann, not so much.
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:50 pm

A Comparison of The Fly (1958) and The Fly (1986)

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George Langelaan's "The Fly" on the Screen

David Cronenberg finds George Langelaan's story to be subpar. I gathered this from something he said on the commentary track for his 1986 film, The Fly. He called it a poorly-written story. I think this explains why he set out on his own path when adapting the story for his film.

It is difficult to get into the minds of characters in first-person short stories. It is difficult to get into the minds of characters in motion pictures. Cronenberg can do this if anyone can, and I think he succeeded to a large extent, although not to the extent he hoped to, in the 1986 film. We get to know Seth Brundle, and can experience through his running commentary about his life what is happening to him inwardly. But we have to estimate and imagine the truth of his psychological changes based on what we hear and see. This same problem faced the two characters in Langelaan's original story: Francois Delambre narrates the framework, but there is a flashback offered in the form of a document written by André's widow, Helen. Neither can see into the mind of the fly-man, so we don't get any explanations for why André can still think with a large fly head in place of his head.
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The short story remains superficial, in part because of the two first-person narrations. The 1958 film is very close to a screen translation of the short story. James Clavell didn't bother to add explanations for human thought in a fly head because there can't be any, most likely! He adds a more palpable romance between Helene and André, which enhances the film beyond the short story. Almost everything else you see is in the Langelaan story. The hand that has the fly claw is relocated from right to left. A small point is left out of the final transformation before Helene sees André (and I learned of this from the Cronenberg commentary track before my ancient paperback containing the short story arrived): some of the cat, Dandelo, that disappeared into a stream of atoms is reconstituted and merged into the fly head.
George Langelaan wrote:He tried to step away from me and caught his foot in one of the stools which I had not troubled to pick up. He made a violent effort to regain his balance, and the velvet cloth slowly slid off his shoulders and head as he fell heavily backwards.
The horror was too much for me, too unexpected. As a matter of fact, I am sure that, even had I known, the horror-impact could hardly have been less powerful.
George Langelaan wrote:Day and night, awake or asleep, I see it, and I know that I am condemned to see it forever, even perhaps into oblivion.
Until I am totally extinct, nothing can, nothing will ever make me forget that dreadful white hairy head with its low flat skull and it two pointed ears. Pink and moist, the nose was also that of a cat, a huge cat. But the eyes! Or rather, where the eyes should have been were two brown bumps the size of saucers. Instead of a mouth, animal or human, was a long hairy vertical slit from which hung a black quivering trunk that widened at the end, trumpet-like, and from which saliva kept dripping.
This would have only appeared ludicrous if not incomprehensible on screen, so the wise decision was made to show a large fly head instead of a fly-cat conglomeration. Movies are not like the printed word.

During some stretches, such as the conversation Francois has with Phillippe at dinner one evening is lifted from the book. Only the boy's name is changed (from Henri). Other scenes are changed up somewhat, with characters added. For example, none of the movie scenes with the nurse appear in the short story, although the character is mentioned in the story.
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Cronenberg's adaptation changes most story elements. The setting, character names, rationale of the story, and most events are new to the Charles David Pogue-David Cronenberg screenplay. But there are parallels: whereas Dandelo the cat disappears into nothing, a baboon takes an inverting ride between Seth Brundle's telepods. In the story, André is first merged with part of a fly, then with part of Dandelo as well. In Cronenberg's screenplay the merger is first with a fly and then with a telepod (ingenious, that last one).

And this brings us to the plotholes. There are any number of questions you can ask about any version of this tale. They all three are swiss cheese when it comes to logic! For a simple example, neither of the screenplays nor the short story explain why the ceramic plate on which a steak is set, nor the bottle in which champagne is kept do not get mixed up with their contents. But the point is not to tell a realistic story in any of the three cases, but to tell an imaginative and interesting story. Langelaan and Clavell find sport in raising the questions. Cronenberg finds his delight in asking a few additional questions and giving us some potential answers. In the meantime, he wants our heads to spin just a little bit!
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Re: YTMN Presents a Remake Rematch Thread

Post by YouTookMyName » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:06 pm

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A Comparison of The Fly (1958) and The Fly (1986)
Design and Such
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Those telepods look familiar, don't they? The ones in the 1986 version of The Fly? David Cronenberg tells in his commentary on the DVD of the film that he wanted something familiar but not familiar, and the design team used the cylinder heat sinks on the motorcycle that he owned at the time as the template. Except they turned the cylinder sleeves upside down! So the telepods look familiar and unfamiliar just as Cronenberg wanted.

Designers often make memorable contributions to the films they work on. It might be something as subtle as the bucket filled with pig blood in Carrie, and how it looks, what size and shape it is. The person who selected that bucket made an indelible impression on your mind if you've ever seen the film. It can be little things like that, but they affect your long-term experience of the film as well as what it seems like while you watch it for the first time. The 1958 film of The Fly has some memorable costume and makeup moments as well. For the day in which it was made, the laboratory sets of each film are grand things, and look all new-fangled high-techy and stuff.
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The titles for consideration in this thread aren't selected truly at random, but I don't seek to find movies that share production team members as a rule. Yet, some names keep turning up on crew listing after crew listing!

In part this is because under the studio system crew members were often assigned to work on many films or television programs at once. Some of the people in the cast listing for the 1958 film have hundreds of credits for the job they did on The Fly.

Even the 1986 film is old enough that crew members have garnered dozens of credits before or since that production was underway.

I usually pick out three or four people and look up links about them. This time, because there are more people than I can write about in a film crew, I'll just list the pertinent people from the IMDb crew pages. You can link to some names. Others you can go to the Full Cast and Crew page for the film they worked on and find links there. You can investigate all you want to. I'm not obsessive enough to do that, but I do recognize that a lot of people who never get written about by people like me, contribute in a lasting way to the films they work on. I thought for once I'd give them slightly more visible credit than a simple link to a web page.

The 1958 Film
The Fly 1958 Full Cast and Crew at IMDb

Art Direction by
Theobold Holsopple
Lyle R. Wheeler

Set Decoration by
Eli Benneche
Walter M. Scott
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If you saw what was supposed to be a room and there was nothing on shelves, no furniture on the floors, you wouldn't be able to tell what sort of room the characters were playing in. The set decorators help you imagine the room by providing clues: furniture, gadgets, detritus on the furniture, all aimed towards making the room seem real (or as real as the director desires) and lived-in. Benneche and Scott had a lot of experience at creating the illusion that a set was a real room. The Delambre house looks complete and natural, André's laboratory looks adequately scientisty. Other than real scientists, who would know? The rest of the population has visual cues that will say to their minds "laboratory" or "mad scientist" when certain objects are on the screen.

Costume Design by
Adele Balkan
Ms Balkan designed costumes for 22 films between 1946 and 1965. She was a "wardrober" on Star! in 1968, and then she disappeared. Probably was consigned to the kitchen to cook meals and have babies. Apparently, though, this was her choice. She lived until 1992!
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Makeup Department
Ben Nye....makeup artist
Helen Turpin....hair stylist
Ben Nye's name used to be all over the place when I'd read credits on films and TV shows. (I was a compulsive reader as a kid.) I actually had no idea what the "makeup artist" on a movie did, but I figured it must have something to do with what my mom did before we'd go out visiting. I never thought of the masks that monsters wore as makeup at all. No wonder I saw Ben Nye's name so frequently: he has 406 credits on his IMDb filmography page!

Sound Department
Eugene Grossman .... sound
Harry M. Leonard.... sound
Don Isaacs.... sound editor (uncredited)
Dick Jensen.... sound editor (uncredited)

Special Effects by
L.B. Abbott.... special photographic effects
James B. Gordon.... special effects (uncredited)
Special effects might be just about anything. Pyrotechnics are special effects. So are miniatures, and stunt falls. But special photographic effects are arrangements made to create the illusions that we think of when we think of certain types of movies. Huge insects, tiny men fighting...uhm...huge insects. A beastie that's part fly and part human begging for rescue in a spider's web. That sort of thing. And L.B. Abbott worked on 69 titles, beginning with The Day the Earth Stood Still (where he didn't receive credit, but learned what would later propel him) to four Academy awards for Doctor Doolittle (1968), Tora! Tora! Tora! (1970), The Poseidon Adventure (1972), and Logan's Run (1976).
James Gordon has 11 credits at IMDb. He had a shorter career than some, not getting into special effects work until 1953 on The Robe. His career ended in 1970 with Airplane. He died two years later.
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Costume and Wardrobe Department
Charles Le Maire.... executive wardrobe designer (as Charles LeMaire)



The 1986 Film
The Fly 1986 Full Cast and Crew at IMDb
Production Design by
Carol Spier
Ms Spier began in the costume department in 1976 on Find the Lady. By 1981 she was getting Production Designer credits. Her first three films were Gas, The Dead Zone (Cronenberg), and Running Brave. The Fly was her second collaboration with Cronenberg, and her 5th credit for Production Design. She most recently working on the Carrie remake, and Pacific Rim which are slated for release in 2013.


Art Direction by
Rolf Harvey
Harvey worked on six titles as Art Director. The Fly was his debut film. In 1997 he graduated to Production Designer and has 13 credits for TV movies through 2006.
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Set Decoration by
Elinor Rose Galbraith
Ms Galbraith's career has moved from the costume department in 1978, through Set Decoration (Cronenberg's The Fly was her first collaboration with him, but there have been many since), through the Art Department to become Art Director on 11 films since 1995. I've seen a number of the films which feature her art direction, and I must say they look nice even if some fail in other areas.

Costume Design by
Denise Cronenberg
Ms Cronenberg's first outing as Costume Designer was for her brother's 1986 film. Since then she has worked on all his films, plus enough others to give her 39 credits to date in that role.
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Makeup Department
Shonagh Jabour.... makeup artist
Jabour worked as makeup artist on 33 titles between 1981 and 2003. His first stint with Cronenberg as the director was Videodrome. Has last to date was eXistenZ.
Ivan Lynch.... hair stylist

Production Management
David Coatsworth.... unit production manager

Art Department
Marc Corriveau.... property master
Joe Curtin.... construction manager
Danielle Fleury.... set dresser
Ian Fraser.... head carpenter
Paul Hotte.... assistant props
Gary Jack.... set dresser
Nick Kosonic.... scenic artist
James McAteer.... set designer
Harold Michelson.... art department visual consultant
Nancey Pankiw.... first assistant art director
Ian Wheatley.... assistant set dresser



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Gort/YTMN left the forum due to trolling on August 25, 2018.
I had fun. Thanks for reading!

"The wealthy and powerful always remind us that cream rises to the top.
What they fail to acknowledge is that pond scum also rises to the top.
And there is a lot more pond scum in the world than there is cream.
If you become rich and powerful, I hope that you will be cream rather than pond scum." --YTMN

Rematch Resurrection Catalog for Rounds 1-4 New post 180721 -- YTMN's Remake Rematch Thread.
Thread Resurrected 21 Jul 2018. Thread abandoned 1 Aug 2017. Thread COMPLETE 25 May 14 (2d time!)


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